Identifier,913032
Interviewee,Leonard M. Trawick
Date,3/21/14
Interviewer,J. Mark Souther
Abstract,"Leonard M. Trawick, a transplant from Alabama, describes living in Cleveland for over forty years. Trained to be an English professor, Trawick held positions at Columbia University before he came to Cleveland. He describes working at Columbia during the student unrest of the 1960s. In 1969, Trawick took a position at the newly created Cleveland State University. He relates the conditions of the school during those early years. He also has fond memories of the poetry programming that Cleveland State created in the 1970s and '80s. Apart from his work, Trawick mentions the various shopping areas in downtown Cleveland and closer to where he lived in Cleveland Heights. He notes the differences between Higbee's and May Company by relating them to New York landmarks like Bloomingdale's and Macy's. He concludes by reiterating how vibrant the Cleveland literary scene was in the 1970s and '80s."
Tags,"Sewanee, The University of the South; Columbia University, New York City, student riots, Kent State Shootings, segregation, integration, race relations, Cleveland Heights, Cleveland, Wagon Wheel, Larchmere, Mad Greek, Coventry Road, Playhouse Square, Public Square, Higbee's, May Company, University Circle, Shaker Square, African American, Cedar Hill, murder, Seesaw Cafe, Case Western Reserve, Cleveland State, Commodore Hotel, Isabella's, Trinity Cathedral, Rhodes Tower, poetry, Old Arcade"
Special Notes,
0,"Introductions, Born in Decatur, Alabama on July 4, 1933; Father was a struggling lawyer"
1,Father take them and  move around in little towns in Alabama; This was during the depression; eventually got a job with the federal land banks of New Orleans; Leonard lived in New Orleans until he was about 5 before he moved back to Alabama
2,Remembers a little about New Orleans - went to mardi gras as a four-year old dressed as a cowboy; 
3,"Tuscaloosa, Alabama became his home more than any other because his father taught law at the University of Alabama, before that he taught English at Auburn; His father was also in the Air Corps and he traveled a lot because of that; He graduated High School from Tuscaloosa and went to the University of the South in Tennessee"
4,"He got a MA in English from the University of Chicago, spent a year in Dijon France on a Fulbright, and came back and got his PhD in Harvard; Family was originially methodist but then they converted to episcopalian which was a factor in his going to Sewanee (the University of the South)"
5,"Describes the university, only 80 students in his graduating class; Pretended they were like Oxford with wearing gowns to class and the dining hall; complusory chapel and he learned a lot about the Bible; He lived 8 years in manhattan"
6,"He spent 8 years teaching at Columbia University during the 1960s; Says it was very exciting time to be in Manhattan in morningside heights right by Columbia; He was there during the occupation of Lowell Hall by students, most faculty sided with the students"
7,"Remembers a story about police about to break in to the library to break out the students, and the faculty stood arm in arm blocking the entrance - didn't stop the cops, but they made a statement; Discusses the controversy surrounding the construction of a gym that would isolate columbia"
8,"He missed the Hough Riots because they moved to Cleveland in 1969, but by the time he got here he did not notice any racial fallout; but he does remember the Kent State Shootings and the controversy surrounding that"
9,"The demonstration surrounding the Kent State Shooting was not very exciting, but it occurred; With regards to tensions in New York around Columbia and race relations he just says that it wasn't bad except people thought Harlem was a dangerous place and one to avoid at night"
10,"His wife taught at City College and had to walk through Harlem, and she had unpleasant comments made her way, but on the whole it wasn't bad; At Columbia students were more interested in student power - the felt exploited by the administration; not much about race"
11,"First impression of Cleveland was that it was very green compared to Manhattan; pleased that housing was very cheap, bought a four bedroom house for less then they could have imagined; lived there for 44 years before moving to Judson; lived in Cleveland Heights"
12,"Liked Cleveland Heights because of accessibility and the schools; But wished the food was more exciting, but there has been a big change since then"
13,Says the Wagon Wheel on Larchmere was a good sit-down dinner place; Went to the Mad Greek when it was on Coventry still; Also describes the Oak room in Terminal Tower as a good sit-down place; says that the downtown restaurants were underpopulated
14,"Downtown during the late 60s and early 70s, the shopping was still good, no vacant storefronts on Euclid until the 70s and 80s - it went downhill; the big department stores all moved out; Also Playhouse Square was just beginning to take shape"
15,"This meant that the Hanna Theater was one of the only places to get entertainment downtown; dsecribes the metropolitan opera coming to the Convention Center - which was an awful place to view an opera; downtown was not a totally attractive place when they moved to Cleveland, but the Heights, University Circle, and Shaker Square were wonderful places"
16,"When he first got a job in Cleveland he didn't know the difference between Cleveland and Cincinnati, he found out about the neighborhoods through friends who came to Cleveland State a year before he did; Also had friends at Case Western Reserve who steered them towards Cleveland Heights; Interested in Shaker Heights and their integration efforts, but they found a more attractive house on Edgehill road"
17,"Also had a number of friends who lived in Cleveland Heights; 2673 Edgehill, between Euclid Heights Blvd and Coventry; no African Americans when they moved in, but later on a number moved in and they were happy to have them as neighbors"
18,"It took about 5 to 10 years for the African Americans to move in (late70s-early 80s); Integration was not very visible in Cleveland Heights, at first; also relates how racist little italy was and how that upset him - African Americans would get beaten up if they passed through Little Italy"
19,"They became aware of integration through the schools, which were integrated from the beginning; He thinks that more and more middle class whites were sending their kids to private schools, and they did not want to do that and his kids stayed in public school from elementary through Heights High"
20,"Had neighbors who sent their kids to private school, but also neighbors who continued to send their kids to public schools; DoesnÕt really remember racial incidents that involved parents - can't remember details"
21,"He recalls the African American man who was murdered at the top of Cedar Hill, either happened just before or just after he got there, but what he does remember is that the murderer had set out to kill a black person that night - scratched an n in the bullet"
22,"Doesn't remember the Haggans Realty Bombing; State of Coventry Village, racially not aware of much - mainly white people hanging out there; Seesaw cafˇ had a bad reputation - bikers and evil looking characters"
23,He never saw these characters except in passing; Mentions American Splendor by Harvey Pekar and how he got to know him and coventry appears in his strips; He would go to Tommy's and Mac's Backs
24,He says it was a sort of lively place - sort of like Greenwich Village in New York; Doesn't remember much about the E105th and Euclid Ave because they didn't venture much past the art museum and those cultural buidings except that the Clinic was beginning to expand 
25,Thinks it looked pleasant as he drove through the area; doesn't remember anything about Winston Willis
26,He says that University Circle was fairly quiet when they got here - recalls a hotel on Euclid and Ford which had nice jazz going on many evenings; wife worked at the central administration of Case Western Reserve and then moved to the Law School until she retired; they were down in University Circle pretty often; The Commodore Hotel was the hotel with the restaurante that played jazz
27,"He can't remember the name of the restaurant, but he does recall that the musicians were local and racially mixed, and the audience was also racially mixed; Doesn't remember the Jazz Temple - might have closed before he got to Cleveland"
28,"Jazz places they would frequent: Isabella's, which used to be where there is now a UH parking garage south of murray hill and nighttown on the East Side and on the West Side went to the Salty Dog"
29,"Talks about Isabella's and its interior"" it was an old carriage house that was picturesquely run down, and the mansion wasn't there anymore; they got some touring acts along with some local shows"
30,"He arrives in 1969 and the school was only 5 years old, he recalls that the university was obviously just being put together; the English department was in an annex of Trinity Cathedral that used to be for Elderly folks; in the bathroom next to his office there was still a bathtub; he taught his first classes in prefab huts that were left over from WW2"
31,"Gradually they built Rhodes Tower marking continual improvement, he thinks that the building that his office was in is still there; "
32,DoesnÕt remember what was across E.22 from Trinity ; A lot happened to CSU between 1968 and 1970
33,"He talks about the student body during the 1970s, says that they were the first generation of student, and were working simultaneously with studying; Says they were committed and hard-working - not partiers"
34,Says that many of them went on to be successful; He was mainly in the English department but he was also connected to the poetry center - at that time Cleveland State was more important in the literary community even more than Case Western Reserve
35,Talks about the poetry center and its progression; says that the second person to run the center expanded it and brought big names in town
36,"Describes the big names that were around Cleveland and they attended poetry workshops that CSU put on; encouraged serious discussion, published poetry books"
37,"Ended up becoming a major, small press: he ended up editing over 120 books, mostly poet's first book; Doesn't know much about DA Levy, a major poet from Cleveland, who committed suicide just before Leonard got here; Levy was very much talked about, people felt he was hounded to death"
38,"Levy was the preeminant poet that was also far out, he was a rebel who didn't want to be successful with the mainstream; Robert Wallace was the best known poet - taught at Case Western Reserve, next was Roberta Turner"
39,"Not much interchange between the universities (CSU and CWRU) but Robert Wallace put on a workshop, they called it the ""Butcher Shop"" it was private"
40,"He's an amateur artist, but he didn't focus on art until after he retired; He edited for 12 years a magazine called the Gamut where he did a few illustrations for almost every issue;"
41,After he retired he took printmaking courses at Cleveland State - had a couple shows at the Pentagon Gallery on Cedar and Lee; oftentimes his prints are quirky - discribes one of a rabbit pedaling a tricycle helicopter
42,He describes another print of a large egg that creatures are examining and speculating about; 
43,"Often went to the Cleveland Museum of Art, old MOMA that was in the Sears building, went to Bill Busta's gallery on Murray Hill, and a number of little galleries in Little Italy; Little Italy had an art scene through the 70s and it got bigger"
44,They took over the old school house in Little Italy and made it into an art studio during the 1980s; Was aware of the Heights Community Congress during the 70s but he can't remember much about it
45,"In the 70s he wasn't very actively occupied with politics, by the 90s they were more active especially with gay rights in Cleveland Heights, did door to door canvassing"
46,"Describes the Wagon Wheel in the Larchmere area, they described themselves as French, but it was a steak and potatoes place with great steaks; The Academy Grille was another restaurant in the area which was the opposite, very smokey but had good hamburgers; The Larchmere Tavern was and still is a good restaurants "
47,"Sedlak Interiors was on Larchmere and then moved to Solon, but he remembers the ads on the radio where Sedlak would talk about his store, never went there until they moved to Solon; Shaker Square was a thriving place during the 70s - more upscale compared to Coventry"
48,"Stauffer's Restaurant was there on Shaker Square, then it became a book store and now itÕs a CVS, but when it was Stauffer's people thought it was a good place; A few clothing stores used to be on Shaker Square too but he can't remember the name"
49,"Says that Shaker Square all of the storefronts were filled, doesn't remember that Halle's had a building there; He never went to Stauffer's but people described it elegently; Drove most places - Cleveland Heights had poor public transportation where they lived"
50,"Although, the rapid that went to the airport was convienent as long as they had a friend to drop them off; "
51,Describes how Terminal Tower was before it became Tower City Center - it was more just a big train station - WCLV was in the tower and in the tower various offices were occupied - Higbee's was attached but he would always enter it from street level
52,May Company was across Ontario; Not much of a rivalry because May's was more like Macy's in NYC and Higbee's was more like Bloomingdales (more upscale than May's); Vaguely remembers the Williamson Building - Schroeder's bookstore was in one of those buildings around public squre
53,"Playhouse Square area had a Woolworths and that's all he remembers because it wasn't a very lively place; faculty would not walk down much; shopped downtown fairly often, went to the old arcade and the public library"
54,"They went to the Old Arcade for specific stores like bookstores and perfume stores; Arcade started to see a minor falling off during the 80s, and was surprised that it turned into a hotel"
55,"Thinks the loss of retail was a gradual thing at the Arcade; Other than the department stores, Euclid Ave began falling apart at the end of the 70s and really got dismal in the early 80s"
56,"Describes the area east of E17th street, says there was a cigar store and a barber shop there, but he can't visualize very much; "
57,"When he first arrived they hadn't cleared any land for Rhodes tower yet and he can't remember what was there, but he can remember when they began putting in the foundations for the big tower; There was a gallery in Parker-Hannifin Hall, but he seldom went in"
58,Eventually the gallery moved out to Cedar-Fairmount
59,"Goes back to the literary activity, in the 70s and 80s Cleveland in general was very active - an amazing number of poets and would-be poets - having readings in the Arabica on Coventry - had a very extensive poetry reading series that broadcast nationally"
60,"Every week they had Cleveland area poets; But they were not the only ones; Cleveland State had ""Odd Tuesdays"" where they would have a small musical group, a few poets, and an open mic"
61,"Performance Poetry was not invented but that did not mean that people didn't do it they just hadn't come up with a name yet; Thanks, END OF INTERVIEW"