Identifier,500009
Interviewee,William R. Bennett
Date,7/16/14
Interviewer,"John Horan, II"
Abstract,"William R. Bennett, previously the Financial Aid Director at Cleveland State University (CSU), discusses his position and how things have changed for African Americans in North East Ohio. He begins by talking about his experiences at Hampton University in Hampton, Virginia. He recalls that those days, days of segregation, no one confronted the students because they were a major economic driver in the town. After Hampton, Bennett came to Cleveland and pursued a research position at area hospitals like the Cleveland Clinic. Then in 1972, he took the position of Financial Aid Director at CSU and expanded the office from three individuals to over 20. He gives a brief overview of what he did in the office and how the office attempted to spread the word about financial aid. One of the major goals and philosophies of the department surrounded their policy on loans, which they would try not give to students in the first and second year, as to not burden them in case they could not continue. 

After Bennett discusses his work with the Financial Aid Office, he talks about the Black Faculty and Staff Organization (BFSO), alongside his perspective on the relative position of African Americans in society. He talks about a dispute that occurred in the late 1980s surrounding the removal of an African American staff-member from CSU. He then uses that to jump into a discussion about where African Americans came from, what they have done, and what he still thinks is left to do. Finally he concludes by talking about how he loved his time at CSU, and he is glad that people are commemorating the 50th anniversary."
Tags,"African American, Great Depression, West Virginia, Hampton University, Cleveland, Cleveland State University (CSU), ethnicity, financial aid, segregation, Cleveland Clinic, Metro Hospital, East Tech High School, John Carroll, quotas, College Board, federal government, education, loans, grants, Pell Grant, Black Faculty and Staff Organization (BFSO), racism"
Special Notes,
0,"Introductions; born January 1, 1935 won the first baby born and received a prize for it a bond"
1,"He was the second child in his family and the bond helped his family during the Great Depression; born in Parkersburg, Wva stayed there until he went to college"
2,Calls Parkersburg a small community with not a lot of industry; Steel was the main industry and there wasn't much else; after college one had to go elsewhere - came to Cleveland due to family connections
3,"He has been in Cleveland since 1956 after he graduated from college; went to Hampton University in Virginia - called it the ""home by the sea"" met his wife there; 1000 or so students at the university at the time"
4,He knew all of the professors and they all knew him; it was not an integrated campus nor an integrated community around the campus - the students were treated well because they brought income into the area
5,"Says it was close to the beaches and talks about Norfolk because it was a naval base, the school had to give special permission which was not given readily"
6,Talks about his wife and how she needed to get permission to go to Norfolk and how they only gave permission because none of the ships were in dock - did not want to meet with the sailors; mentions how the university has changed over the years - went back a few years back tells that story
7,Continues to tell the story says he went back and saw that they have grown tremendously - new buildings and structures; Talks about how when he went there there were a few Native American students 
8,"These Native American students lived in a dorm that the students called the wigwam, which is still there today; says that the dorm that he lived in still stands today; continues to talk about the changes that Hampton University went through over the years - yet the basic campus that he remembers is still intact"
9,"Says that Hampton has acquired the tallest building in the city, which is in downtown Hampton, Va - quite a few great improvements to the university"
10,"Talks about student life when he went to Hampton - knew everyone from the administration to the faculty - had to mind his ps and qs; Had a dean of men and dean of women and these people were supposed to know all of the men and women, respectively"
11,"He says it isn't like it is today, students have 5-6 years now, but then they only had 4; says that it was mostly because parents couldn't afford to pay; talks briefly about financial aid"
12,Married his college sweetheart in between graduating and coming to Cleveland - been together for 58 years
13,Talks about how he came to Cleveland and even in Ohio things were segregated - driving buses and working in the post office were the two industries along with school teachers that employed African Americans
14,He was fortunate and got a job in the labs at Metro Hospital worked for three years or so before going to the Cleveland Clinic; says there was only one building - the Crile Building
15,He worked there in the heart research department and he was part of the group involved with the first artificial heart implant in an animal - describes the procedure
16,"He says that they kept the animal alive for 24 hours or so and that they wanted to know what happened to the blood as it had to go through the tubes - he liked working there, but he realized that because he did not have an advanced degree he couldn't get as many benefits"
17,He went back to school at John Carroll and get a masters degree; He tought at East Tech High School for 10 years and worked as an atheletic director for a while
18,Talks about the basketball program at East Tech and how they won the state championship while he was there in the 1960s
19,Continues to talk about the championship years at East Tech and the young men that he worked with
20,Continues to talk about the young men and the coaches that he worked with - says that unfortunately many of those he worked with are gone; began working at CSU in 1972
21,"Says that his aunt and uncle urged him to come to Cleveland because certain job opportunities were available, but he was still able to get a job in a different field"
22,"He got the job because of a lifelong friend that he had who was ahead of him at East Tennessee State; He was happy because it was in his field of study, but it did not pay which motivated him to progress"
23,"Each new job he had paid a little more, but his wife also wanted to work and she worked as a substitute in the Cleveland Public School System - says that integration was not prevailant "
24,The schools were going through test periods to increase integration during this period; He says that his wife was sent to the westside of Cleveland to teach
25,She wanted to get a fulltime position but there were none available because they already had their quota of black teachers; instead she got into an open position on the east side and the supervisor hired her because of her performance
26,Continues to talk about how his wife negotiated working for the Cleveland Public School system during the period of integration
27,He started at Cleveland State in 1972 as the director of Financial Aid - got his administration degree from John Carroll; during that time the financial aid office was part of the admissions office talks about how he was hired
28,"He was hired to build a financial aid department, previously there was one director and two others who worked in financial aid, he was supposed to build a department"
29,He had to go through the process to find a location and all of the hoops in creating a new department; says the building he chose doesn't even exist today - across from Fenn Tower and it was a new car showroom
30,"Describes the building, two story that fronted onto Euclid; He took a three person department and eventually grew it to 26 people over the years; Says that at that time and still now the federal government is the biggest supplier of financial aid"
31,"Talks about how they were to secure additional money from the Federal Government; previously CSU was not on the map as far as the Fed was concerned with regard to financial aid - only had $100,000 to dispurse among their whole student body"
32,"Says that the previous director was just waiting on retirement and was just a manager, but he wanted to increase the resources available; Each year they had to apply for more and more money"
33,"Says that they were not competitors like admissions people, which meant that he had friends at Case Western and John Caroll and Ohio State among others to help him prepare the application for more money - gave him tips on how to ask because his colleagues sit on peer-review boards"
34,"Says that just like today colleges need more money than is avialable - says that it was worse then than today, BEOG (pell grant now) was all they had - describes the Pell grant"
35,"They had the loan program, work-study, and Supplimental Opportunity Education Grant that was it; but they got more and more and were quite successful went from $100,000 to over a million dollars to give to students - but he restates that there was never enough money"
36,Describes his philosophy as a Financial Aid Director and where it came from - donÍt give loans at first - they felt strongly about that
37,They did the best that they could to provide more grants and work-study to that group of students for the first few years because they did not want to increase their living standard in the first two years - direct costs were covered and a few more dollars but that was it
38,"Work study was a way to increase income without putting people on the line; Since the federal government did not allow for the discrimination based on income, his methods were not publicized"
39,"But he states that nothing he did was illegal because they were not curtailing the admissions process, they got people in and with enough money; talks about how there were students that walked in to registration without ever filling out a form"
40,He says that they would work with these students and the students that started and would drop out after one term; he did not want to burden down people who were only there for one year
41,This also helped the institution because it kept down the institutional default rate; compares it to other major cities like Detroit and Chicago and the universities there that had high default rates
42,"He says that those students would go into those universities and ask for it all, then they did not make it and since they could not pay the loans back meant that they had a large default rate"
43,Talks about how community college graduates would be considered past the two years and be eligible for the whole aid pot
44,Gives a story about one woman who had three children and how dedicated she was to school and her kids no matter what the weather was like and she did graduate - says the financial aid staff was in her corner
45,"""If you are bound and determined to make it for yourself, somebody will step in and help you"" Says that they had many people overcome many obstacles; As an institution, between the financial aid and admissions office, they worked their hardest to get Cleveland students to their campus"
46,Says that most intitutions were trying to integrate so they grabbed students who were  top notch and then gave them all of the resources to succeed; CSU could not do that because there were very few dorms - they had to leave and go home
47,Could not take people out of potentially bad environments; gives examples of people that were not taken out of their environments and that these people end up going back
48,Says that they attempted to attract as many as they could and encourage them to study on campus; had a support department there - division of special studies - federally funded program - provided support for English and Math - worked out for some youngsters
49,"Talks about how the federal government used to give the money to the schools to distribute, but over the years  the Federal government became more and more involved in the process and to publicize financial aid; They put together the application to get federal aid"
50,"Talks about what was prior to the federal application - the College Board put together an application that was huge; the Board was created by the top notch institutions on the east coast (Yale, Penn, Dartmouth, etc)"
51,Says that this application was meant to determine how much a family could afford; But the federal government got more involved because they thought since it was their money
52,"Says that the college board form has declined in use, but some institutions use it to recalculate for money outside of the Federal pervue;"
53,"Talks about the Cleveland Scholarship Program, which would help people pay for the application; says that when a student was admitted there was a portion about financial aid"
54,Says that nobody could pay for education; a large number of students would just walk in and talk about their opportunities; Cleveland Scholarship Program was a tremendous asset
55,John talks for a little bit trying to explain his question
56,Talks about the Job board which was a board that they maintained for campus employement and campus jobs; departments had to come through them to list their jobs - where the work study would go - but they also would go out and find work study opportunities for the students
57,Says that they offered work study opportunities to non-profits outside of the university and explains that process
58,Says that the work study program was largely successful and that many students took advantage; continues to talk about being an urban institution and that a lot of students came in with jobs and were encouraged to keep their jobs
59,"Defines what he means by ""urban institution"" = placed in the center of the city, but also that they did not have residence halls - commuter school"
60,He was the president of the national association of financial aid officers - describes it and how he got the position went from state to national to regional instead of state to regional to national
61,He says that he was very fortunate to be elected; he was involved in a lot; he did consulting work for the federal government
62,He was a trustee of the collegeboard for several years in terms of the process they used to created the formula to determine the amount people could pay for a college education
63,"Says the Collegeboard was the leader in higher education, they had the SAT and financial aid; He was also a part of the ACT advisory board "
64,"He says that because of his ethnicity he could be elected to things, even though there were not many opportunities - he was one of two African Americans in Ohio higher ed financial aid offices"
65,He repeats how collegial financial aid offices were because they did not try to get students only help them; Continues by saying that there were not a lot of African Americans in Financial aid throughout the country
66,"That has changed according to him, more African Americans in those positions now; he wasn't too involved in the national scene except when he was elected"
67,"He met with Congress quite a bit - not lobbyists, but ""information givers""; he testified in front of congress and Mr. Ford's committee"
68,Says that there was a William J. Bennett who was educaiton secretary that had to testify at the same time but they were on opposite sides
69,"Says that they would grill the other Bennett and leave him alone, which was nice for him; Switch in the interview topic to the Black Faculty and Staff Organization (BFSO)"
70,Talks about those who chaired that committee; He also mentions what the organization did - spent a lot of time recruiting Black students from the Cleveland Public Schools and they wanted to do something to reduce dropouts
71,They wanted to change the atmosphere to accept minorities on campus; he says that people may have felt isolated in classrooms
72,Talks about support groups that other kids had and that the African America students lacked and how they tried to change that with the Department of Special Studies
73,Describes special studies as a tool for minority students to help them; says that some people had a stigma attached with Special Studies but they tried to convince them that there is not
74,Says that in that respect the BFSO was very important; remembers that there were some issues that caused a major rift in campus - remembers an event surrounding the Director of Minority Affairs - Winbush
75,"Says that he came in with a ""big stick"" Says that President of CSU John Flower fired him and many students, faculty, and staff disliked that decision - called it terrble - Students occupied Fenn Tower for a long time"
76,He says that he was considered one of those in the group that tried to smooth things over; says that Winbush served under the president and ultimately served at the president's whim
77,"He always thought that the students and the BFSO were fighting the wrong battle in that instance (with Winbush); describes the battle and instead of fighting for a better atmosphere on campus, but they wouldn't hear about that fight he thinks"
78,He thinks that after the Winbush event that they did not accomplish much; students were camped out in Fenn Tower for months at least - remembers telling the students that they needed to keep up with their classes for their futures
79,"After all, Winbush left his position; Bennett says that he talked to the African American ministers that came down and protested as well - lists them"
80,"Says that there were about 15 or 20 ministers and churches represented in the protests at Fenn Tower, which he could watch from his office across the street; says that in his opinion they did not do much for their time and effort"
81,Goes back to talking about his time at Hampton University and describes the racial make up and how that was different to CSU
82,"Says that the few white students commuted to campus, they did not live on the campus at Hampton U.; They spent the time and energy on Winbush because they did not feel he was released for just cause"
83,They thought that Winbush was a driving force for changing situations on Campus; Says that at that time African Americans were still in the mood for marching and protesting
84,"The mood began in the early 1960s; talks again about African Americans were a major economic driver in Hampton regardless on how segregated things were they did not mess with students, but things were still segregated like transportation"
85,"Talks about an event with his wife, who is from South Carolina, they were going to Richmond to transfer to where they were going; talks about how if they were riding intra-state they could sit where they wanted to - and she sat down and did not move"
86,He says that he sat there with her; the conductor had told them that they needed to move and his wife said that they will not move; so the conductor turned off the air and that car was very hot
87,"Says that protests were used by African Americans to make change, but it was not that much better in Cleveland either - people were making strides to move out of the central city but that meant that ""white folks scattered"""
88,"According to him, that created a new segregation - nothing changed; Doors have been opened and things have become desegregated"
89,Things are better but still the schools remain segregated and that is paramount; segregation means that there is a problem with funding for certain schools
90,Some schools do not work as well because they have less funding; The communities that are predominantly African American seem to have a problem with getting to where they want to be academically
91,"Thinks that funding is why African Americans want a level playing field so that they can keep competative; much if deals with money, according to him; because people can move to places with beter school systems ""if you did not make the leap then of course you did not leap far enough"""
92,People find that their neighborhood changes again and they are right back in the same position; the country has a long way to go
93,"He hasn't been involved with CSU for many years, but he thinks that there is more diversity, but there is not enough; remembers working with tri-c to get students over to get their bachelor's and they do more of that these days"
94,Says that when he was at CSU the downtown campus had a majority - minority population; increased nursing program and an expansion into the medical field - may incorporate more minorities
95,When he was working with medical schools and law schools there were not a large number of African Americans going
96,"Hopeful that these things will allow for greater equality in terms of race relations; doesn't like talking about the national scene, but mentions what he thinks about having an African American as president"
97,"He thinks that a lot of people are for certain changes that the president wants, but there is a logjam and he blames the system for being screwed up, but worse he looks at it from his point of view and wonders if it is another form of racism"
98,Talks about health insurance and what makes sense to him
99,The one thing that he like about his employment at CSU was the student services division; says that all of the directors would pull together to help each other for any reason but especially to help students - he enjoyed his tenure there
100,Says that the people would go out of their way to help students; He is glad that there is a project for the 50th memorial and mentions another African American who was a strong advocate for CSU
101,"This man has since passed away, but this man did his part to grow CSU; Thanks and END OF INTERVIEW"