Code,500051
Subject,Louis Stokes
Date,12/17/14
Interviewer,Joseph Wickens
Abstract,"This interview was conducted as part of Cleveland State UniversityÕs 50th Anniversary Commemoration effort. Born and raised in Cleveland, Louis Stokes is most widely recognized as being the first African-American to be elected to Congress from Ohio. Stokes graduated from Central High School and was drafted into the army during WW2. Following his service in the military he attended Western Reserve University on his GI Bill and continued on to earn his law degree from Cleveland-Marshall Law School. After law school Stokes practiced law for a number of years with his brother Carl, who later made history when he was elected mayor of Cleveland, the first African-American to hold that office in a major US city, and the prominent defense lawyer Norman Minor. Of particular interest is StokesÕ description of Cleveland-Marshall, especially its dean, Wilson G. Stapleton, stories of his early years in the law profession, and his account the events leading to his election to Congress. "
Special Notes,"Cleveland-Marshall Law School is abbreviated ""C-M"". "
Minutes,
0,"Introduction. Graduated from C-M. Born in Cleveland, raised in Cleveland, educated in Cleveland. Spent most of life in Cleveland."
1,Only time away was to serve in US Army. Spent all his life as an east side resident. Grew up in the Outhwaite Homes. Went to high school when he lived in the project.
2,"""Cleveland was a leader in public housing."" When Stokes moved in around 1939 most of the housing in Outhwaite was fairly new. ""It was nice housing."" Went to Giddings Elementary. "
3,"Went from Giddings to the ""Old Central High School."" Attended Jr High and part of HS there. By that time it was essentially condemned. New Central High was built when he was in the 10th grade."
4,Recently it has changed from a HS to a middle school. They changed the name to the Carl and Louis Stokes Academy. Relates that that school is really old now too.
5,Begins to talk about being a part of the Mozart Music Club. A lady in the neighborhood organized the club. He was in it with his brother. It was a neighborhood band.
6,"Mozart Music Club description continued. The lady was Henrietta Dixon. ""She took a lot of pride in it."" ""It was interesting."" "
7,Was drafted into WW2 six months after graduating HS in 1943. By August he received notice of his induction and shipped out.
8,"Went to Columbus first to be processed. After that went to Jefferson Barracks Missouri for basic training. ""It was a tough camp. If you could make it through Jefferson Barracks you could serve anywhere."" Was 18 at the time and it was the first time he encountered real segregation."
9,"At the time the army was segregated. ""There was no social contact between white and black soldiers."" Relates that he served in the south and faced real racism."
10,Stokes states that the best part was that he got a GI Bill for his service. He wouldnÕt have been able to otherwise. Enrolled at Western Reserve University. At the time WRU and Case hadnt merged yet. 
11,Never encountered any trouble receiving his GI Bill benefits. Attended Cleveland College within WRU. Applied at the main campus.
12,His application was rejected so he went back to his HS and they were infuriated. They took care of the matter and he was accepted. Attended for two years.
13,"""Part of the reason was that I had to work and couldnÕt go to school full time."" Stipend under the GI Bill would have only been around $95. Mother insisted that he work. She had been a domestic worker during his youth. "
14,"She made $8 plus car fair. She raised two boys and went on welfare. Moved into public housing to further help ease the burden. ""ThatÕs why I felt I had to work all day and I attended school at night."" "
15,"Most classes were at Cleveland College downtown. At the time you could go to law school if you had two years of undergraduate and a B average or above. ""That is what I did."" At the time he was 21 years old. ""Because of the age factor I was in a hurry."" "
16,Saw this as a quick route to get his law degree. Continued to work during the day and attended law school five nights a week for four years.
17,Being at Cleveland College he was eligible for Greek Life at WRU main campus and rushed Kappa Alpha Psi. 
18,Bill Willis was a guest at the Olympic Club. Stokes and several friends started the Olympic Club.
19,"The Olympic Club was dedicated to another friend who had died young. He had graduated at 14 years old and attended WRU. He developed a brain illness and died young, he wasnÕt even 20 years old."
20,They would set up forums at the YMCA. Bill Willis and Marion Motley of the Cleveland Browns were guests at one of these forums.
21,"The main function of the club was to conduct forums. ""We had some good speakers, a lot of notable people in our vicinity."" "
22,"Remained active with the fraternity after leaving WRU and enrolling at C-M. Majored in English and minored in accounting. ""I knew I wanted to go into law and I thought that would best equip me."" Begins to give description of C-M location. ""At the time C-M was located in an old manufacturing building."" "
23,"The address was 1240 Ontario St. ""There were broken windows and all that stuff as you went up to the second floor for classes."" ""We were young people who wanted an education and you couldnÕt get night law classes at WRU or any other university in the area."""
24,"Relates that is was an opportunity for students who needed to work to still get an education. ""The beauty was that we were taught by practicing lawyers and judges."" "
25,"Some of the faculty were notable. Talks about how they could pull examples from their own practice. Feels they got an excellent education. Begins to give description of Wilson G. Stapleton, dean of C-M. ""All he required of you is that you be a student."""
26,"Relates how he would ask for a students academic record when you would come to visit him in his office. Gives physical description of Stapleton. ""After he would look at the record than he would ask what you wanted to talk about."""
27,"""Everybody loved Wilson G. Stapleton."" Interviewer asks about the ""Hiram System"" of teaching and the comprehensive exams."
28,"Stokes describes that they were there from 6pm-10pm and would go to multiple classes. ""You might have contracts, evidence, and maybe real estate."" "
29,Stokes notes that some classes did employ the Socratic Method. While at C-M he worked at the Ohio Highway Department in Garfield Hts as a timekeeper.
30,"""It was a nice job, it gave you a salary."" Relates the story of how he found out the Bar Exam results. They would publish the results in the Cleveland News."
31,"He was tied up at work but was able to get his hands on the early edition and didnÕt see his name. ""I was heartbroken."" Around 4pm one of his colleagues told him congratulations on passing the bar. ""I told him I didnÕt pass and he said, ""What do you mean you didnt pass? Im sitting here looking at your name in the newspaper."" It was a later edition of the paper. ""I will always remember that call."" "
32,Stokes didnÕt know Bert Wolstein when they were at C-M. Stokes tells story of how he was at dinner near WRU and he was seated next to Wolstein. 
33,"Wolstein introduced himself and told him about what he had done. ""He was a lawyer but made his money in real estate."" They had a nice chat on that occasion. Stokes was also at C-M when a new moot courtroom was dedicated to him."
34,"""I got my start as a lawyer in real estate."" ""When I came out of law school in 1953 the situation was different for white and black lawyers right here in ClevelandÉNo white law firms hired black lawyers."" "
35,Describes that you would go into a black practicing lawyers firm. When Stokes came out he had a good friend named Tommy Robinson. Took the bar with Robinson and sat next to him during class at C-M. His day job was selling real estate at Carmack Realty. 
36,"Carmack was located 8811 Quincy Ave. John Carmack was the biggest black real estate person in Cleveland. ""He sold a lot of homes."" Tommy told Stokes said he was going to try to get him the job of Carmack's lawyer."
37,The in house lawyer was looking to leave. Robinson asked Carmack to interview Stokes and he hired him. Stokes was charged with reviewing various real estate deals.
38,"Carmack gave him the ability to handle outside business as well. As a result Stokes would go down and hang around the jail. ""I would hustle cases."" Stokes wanted to be a criminal defense lawyer. ""Working for Mr. Carmack really helped."" "
39,His brother Carl came out of C-M in 1955 and they looked forward to practicing together. When Carl graduated Louis left Carmack Realty and started Stokes and Stokes. 
40,"""Norman Minor is probably the best criminal lawyer I have ever seen, he was my idol."" Stokes would go down to watch him. "
41,"Stokes describes the Tommy Hill murder case. ""It was one of the top cases he handled and it drew a lot of attention."" ""Whoever was in real trouble they tried to get Norman to represent them."" Stokes was assigned to a case with Norman Minor."
42,"It was a rape case.  ""I was going to sit in a trial and try a case with Norman Minor."" Minor had Stokes close the case. ""I couldnÕt believe what he was saying."" "
43,Stokes relates that at the old common pleas court there was a large vestibule where you could stand and hear what was going on inside. After the trial Minor was asking him a lot of questions like how long he had been practicing. Stokes had just moved from Carmack to Stokes and Stokes.
44,"Minor than asked Stokes if he would handle some cases for him while he was away for the summer, mainly contunances. Kept asking for continuances throughout the summer. Finally during one case the judge didnÕt grant a continuance and asked if the defense was ready for trial. ""I said your honor this is not my case."" "
45,"""He said this case is going to trial, are you going to try the case or not? I had no choice so I said okay."" Ultimately they got an acquittal. One morning his secretary buzzed him in his office and said Mr. Minor was there to see him. Stokes thought it was a joke. Stokes came out and greeted him and they went into his office to talk. Minor asked if Louis and Carl would be interested in joining him as a law firm."
46,"""He had a record of taking in young lawyers he thought were promising and keeping them on until they moved on."" Carl and Louis discussed it. At the time Carl was working as a assistant city prosecuter and wasnÕt in the office much. ""He said Lou its up to you."" They moved into Mr. Minor's offices."
47,"Stokes worked on cases directly with Minor. ""For eight years I sat second chair with this great lawyer, it was a highlight of my career."" Many of the cases during that time were interesting."
48,"Started to work with the NAACP shortly after he started practicing. ""I had a lot of time as a young lawyer, and I wanted to be involved in the Civil Rights movement."" "
49,Was on the board of the NAACP and was asked to chair the Legal Redress Committee. In that role he took cases to the committee to be considered. 
50,"""That gave us a good group of lawyers."" In that role Carl brought a case to the Redress Committee. At the time Carl was in the state legislature andwas considering running for Congress. His district had been gerrymandered to keep him out of Congress. At the time Ohio had never had a black Congressman."
51,Louis took the case along with a  group of lawyers. Filed a lawsuit in Federal Court that was later tried before three judges but lost 2-1. Took the case to the Supreme Court where they ruled on briefs. They ruled in their favor and reversed the decision of the two judges.
52,"Court ordered the district to be redrawn and it was with a 65% black voting population. ""It meant a black could run with a black base."" Louis went to Carl and told him they won his case. ""He said, ""I donÕt want to run for Congress, Im the mayor of Cleveland."" "
53,"""He was on magazine covers and all over the nation because he was the first black mayor of a major US city."" People in the NAACP wanted to know why he didnÕt run."
54,"Begins to talk about the famous ""Stop and Frisk"" case. Describes the events that the men endured. ""It became what is known as a landmark case in Constitutional law."" "
55,"""It is considered to be one of the top 25 criminal cases of all time."" ""Carl would have been an excellent lawyer but his love and passion was in politics. He was good at the trade."""
56,"Stokes relates that his passion was to be an excellent defense criminal lawyer. Gives the trajectory of Carl's political career. ""He became a pioneer with blacks all over the nation."" "
57,Stokes relates that every Sunday the board members of the NAACP would have breakfest together. With Carl's victory in the mayoral election they discussed who should take his place as a candidate for Congress.
58,"The conversation from there shifted to the other board members asking Louis to run because his work created the district but he said no. ""I really didnÕt have any political ambitions."" Dr. Kenneth Clement was part of the group and they said if Lou didnÕt go than he should and Lou deferred to him. They decided to ask Carl for his thoughts on the matter."
59,"Later in the week they went to Carl's house and he took Clement into the kitchen. ""They spent about an hour in there and when they came out Carl said, ""Okay Lou is our candidate."" ""I said, ""alright but I gotta talk to my wife about this."" Carl told Lou he had to have Arnold Pinkney run his campaign. Arnold also had to talk to his wife. Carl also said Lou had to go see O.W. Walker, publisher of the Call and Post, and get his support right away."
60,"""After I got my family's support I went to see O.W. Walker and got his support."" ""Pinkney's wife said she didnÕt want Arnold running any more campaigns but said if it was for Lou Stokes than we have to do it."" "
61,"Stokes didnÕt have a relationship with Governor Rhodes at all but Carl, through his time as a state legislature, knew him well. Carl and Rhodes worked together to redraw the district. ""He basically gave Carl what he wanted to in that Congressional District."" "
62,Interviewer relates the specifics of House Bill #2. 
63,When Louis attended C-M it was an independent school. Stokes felt it was good when he heard that C-M was merging with CSU. Describes why he thought it was a good move. 
64,"Carl and Louis' mother was named Ohio mother of the year and was a finalist for national mother of the year, the lady who won was a member of Congress' mother. "
65,"Stokes doesnÕt remember the specifics of his first day on the floor of Congress but understood the gravity of the situation he was in as the first black legislator elected to Washington from Ohio. ""That carried with it great responsibility because I would be watched and studied."" "
66,"Stokes came in with Shirley Chisolm from New York, the first black female to ever serve in Congress. Bill Clay also came in that year. He was was the first black Congressman from Missouri. ""I knew a lot of attention would be on us."" ""I had to do something special."" All were heavily involved in the Civil Rights movement."
67,"When Stokes arrived in Congress there were only six blacks there. With those three that made 9, the largest number since 1879. ""I was aware of the fact that this was a historic moment."" "
68,"Stokes later founded the Congressional Black Caucus. ""It is very exciting and very productive."" *RECORDING STOPS MOMENTARILY* Stokes did an interview with Howard Mims after his visit to Grenada. Gives a description of Mims and how he was loved by students."
69,Grenada was the subject of the interview. Stokes had been sent there as part of an investigative team to look into the US invasion of the small island nation. Mentions he was also part of the committee that investigated Abscam. 
70,Stokes continues to mention some of the committess that he chaired. Iran-Contra Affair. Was one of the 15 members on the panel.
71,During the Abscam Affair he investigated other members of Congress over alleged illicit sex and drug use. Was also part of the committee that investigated the assassinations of JFK and MLK. Was the first black Congressman to serve on the House Appropriations Committee. 
72,"Started the Louis Stokes Scholarship Fund at CSU to celebrate his 20th anniversary in Congress. Raised over $200,000. Wanted the scholarship to be in his mother's name but technical difficulties made it necessary to put it in his name. Describes the function of the scholarship fund."
73,Wanted to scholarship fund to go to minority students at C-M who like him could not have attended college without some outside help. 
74,"Stokes lobbied to bring the NEOMED building to campus. Stokes relates his role in the process. Stokes longtime colleague, Dr. Edgar Jackson, was a professor at the Case Medical School and a VP at University Hospital."
75,Ron Berkman asked Jackson to set up an advisory committee to look into bringing the campus to CSU. Stokes was asked to be co-chair of the committee.
76,"Stokes agreed. Description of the advisory committee's purpose. Wanted to encourage family practitioners. ""I liked the idea."" "
77,"""The program is working beautifully."" Relates some of the other endorsements that the project has received."
78,"""Its ongoing right now."" Stokes notes that the work of the presidents has really made it all possible."
79,Stokes mentions that they could do another session if need be. *END OF INTERVIEW*