Code,750012
Subject,Diane Therese Pinchot
Date,8/9/2016
Interviewer,Naomi A. Randt (formerly Chris Morris)
Abstract,"Sister Diane Therese Pinchot is an Ursuline Sister and Head of the Art Department at Ursuline College. A Cleveland native, Sister Diane decided to join the Ursuline community prior to going to high school. She designed and built the altar dedicated to the four churchwomen murdered in El Salvador on 2 December 1980. In this interview, she discusses her decision to enter the religious community, the love and support she found within the Ursuline Sisterhood, and the power of art as a tool to promote advocacy for social justice issues. In 2009, she served 60 days in federal prison for crossing the line at a protest against the Western Hemisphere Institute of Security Cooperation, also known as the School of the Americas. Throughout her life in the Ursuline Community she has advocated for the needs and rights of others, and discusses those issues, along with her own unique outlook on ministry throughout this interview."
Special Notes,"El Salvador, School of the Americas, Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation"
Minutes:,
0,"Born September 11, 1945 in Euclid, Ohio. One of six children. Childhood in Euclid, ""simple, beautiful, prosperous"""
1,"Small community living. Public school, Villa Angela at St. Joseph's for high school. Same area as Sister Dorothy Kazel. St. Robert's. ""My life seemed to be have been very much closely related to when she was going to do things"" ""I ended up being at the same place at the same time"" in grade school when Sister Dorothy was teaching as a cadet."
2,"Experience at St. Robert's ""trying to get through school and trying to learn"" ""I didn't care for Catholic school"" harder and more rigorous. High school at Villa Angela, ""nuns were wonderful in high school"" Involvement in art."
3,"Decision to enter religious community. Entered right after high school. Influenced by the love and experience with nuns during high school. Parents reaction: ""they wanted me to get married and have children,"" her sister is also a member of the Ursuline Sisters of Cleveland. Dated more than her sister, parents expected her to continue and get married. Sister was a role-model for her."
4,"Decision ""did not go down well with my family,"" friends said, ""You'll last three days, and then you'll be out"" Kindness along the way kept her committed to community. Father, crane-operator, coal miner, served in US Army and Navy. Mother, homemaker, ""all kinds of jobs"" before she got married."
5,"Decision to enter religious community. Experience dating. ""Too naive"" really interested in art, loved the nuns, and what her sister was doing, ""it was a mystery"" life as an Ursuline Sister, being a part of that community. Was not interested in getting married."
6,"Not called to serve, but ""the spirit of God was with me,"" attended mass daily. ""The people who loved me, I followed them"" Marriage proposal. Dated older men."
7,"Taller than boys in high school. College men ""enjoyed talking with them, being with them"" but naive. ""More interested in the mystery"" of religious life. Classroom experience, especially in the art room."
8,"Art. ""Always good at art,"" nurtured to be better. Effortless creator. Persistence. Drawing. Teachers were very nurturing. ""The way of art was birthed in me in a way that is wasn't before."" Mother had been very supportive of art talents even before high school."
9,"Mother nurtured talent as a child. Loved to draw. Detail. ""To feel it by looking at it,"" intimacy in drawing something. Appeal of being an artist."
10,"First two years of academics at Ursuline College, ""nearly killed me,"" final two years spent in the art department. ""Thank God they saw I had this artist appeal, and gift."" Professor Sister Killian, mentor and second mother, ""nurtured everything in me as a studio artist,"" drawn to sculpture, metal, 3D art. Drawing ""no challenge to me"""
11,"Art. ""love of trying to make something come out of this piece of nothing and creating something,"" ""beautiful experience"" Learned endurance, patience, way to teach art from Sister Killian. "
12,"Sister Killian helped architect design chapel and Ursuline College. ""major influences"" in life as an artist. Activism through art. Friend killed in Vietnam."
13,"Friend kicked out of seminary. Sent to Vietnam. Got sick when he came home, might have been agent orange. Twenty-six years old. ""Desperately upset"" about his dying."
14,Artwork around the Vietnam War. Glenville riots. City kids experiences. Friends dying in Vietnam. Four high school classmates killed in Vietnam.
15,"Created Ursuline Community Christmas card, rejected. ""They wanted something cute and beautiful."" Created twelve foot painting and painted ""ghosts of Vietnam."" First place at art show, 1968. Second painting about Vietnam, 1969. "
16,"Art as activism, advocacy. Teaching at St. Anne's. Art was an outlet for pain. Spent ""time in the basement doing art and dealing with the feelings that I had"""
17,"Sacred Art. Graduated work in 1990. Lake Catholic, set up a new school. Institute of Art during the summer. 30 pieces of silver art piece."
18,"Economic and military strength in Central America. ""Like pieces of silver selling ourselves down"" Piece given to the Bishop of Cleveland."
19,"Artwork, ""never protested anything except through art."" Community was very supportive. ""left to do what we did. Did they understand my artwork? They didn't have a clue. Still don't understand totally everything that I do."" "
20,"Ursuline Community: supportive, even though they lack understanding. ""I can teach it, and my students get it."" Fifty year lag time for people to appreciate art. Andy Goldsworthy, David Ash, modern artists."
21,Design of the Altar in El Salvador. Masters of Fine Arts (MFA) terminal degree for studio artist. Had to have MFA to teach at Ursuline College. 1990 Sculpture Ceramic Degree from Wesleyan University and MFA. Large sculpture pieces around altars. Benefit of mentors. 
22,"Altar pieces. Contemporary sacred art. ""How are these altars different from bar tables?"" Research into sacred art. Expertise on building altars."
23,"Master's Thesis. ""What makes something sacred?"" Cleveland mission team: knew she was building altars, wanted her help in El Salvador with local artisans building commemorative altar. Designed altar with local Salvadoran master builder. Idoberto Ramos *(spelling?)* ""I knew nothing"""
24,"Design issues. Different brick sizes. Other materials used were tiles and conacoste wood. ""when I got there I realized what was sacred"" Traveled to El Salvador one month after end of civil war. Father was upset about Sister Diane being asked to go down there. ""People thought I was crazy"" ""Always the witness when she was around"" ""followed her everywhere"""
25,"Sunbathing and getting poison ivy. Listened to Sister Dorothy Kazel's stories from El Salvador, ""I didn't have a clue. As soon as I stepped off that plane, I started getting the clue."" Fear. Airport was deserted, only passenger in the airport, heavy military presence."
26,"Military went through luggage. ""I gave them the chocolate and they left me alone,"" stopped going through luggage. Sister Sheila Marie Tobbe met her outside airport. ""Shocked"" at what she saw."
27,"First night in El Salvador. Fifteen year old boy shot and killed his girlfriend and then shot himself. Attended wake. Liver operation patient. ""Immediately one thing after another after another"" from the first day of arrival. ""Couldn't believe it."" Plans for altar changed when she got to El Salvador, at sight of conacoste wood. "
28,"Idoberto Ramos, ""wouldn't let me do a thing because I was a woman,"" finally let her dig in the ground. Process of building altar. ""Burst into tears, I just knew something special was happening because it was the spot where the women were found."" Earth and blood was mingled with the people. "
29,"Digging into ground. Spot where they found the bodies. St. Angela medal, catechism book Sister Dorothy taught from, placed into altar base. Sister Sheila Marie Tobbe, singing with other women, ""I could just feel the mingling of the earth and the blood in a way that went right through my body"""
30,"""Experience of spiritual emergence"" while digging the altar. Very honored to be part of that work, wasn't ""about me making a design, it was about what sacred really was"" ""It's not about what size the brick is going to be, or what design you have in your head, it's about the meaning behind it."""
31,"Sacred Art, ""comes from a place that is greater than yourself."" Feeling of finally graduating from MFA. Advocacy through art. ""The right thing to do"" Primitive tools. Twigs used as plumb lines."
32,Building process. Handmade tool to scrap the tile. Altar built without power tools. Shows pictures of finished altar. Idoberto Ramos.
33,"Pictures of altar and chapel. Article in liturgical magazine about building the altar. Tiles from Cleveland, Ohio. ""In the end you don't see the altar."" Covered in cloth and layers of pictures, ""typical Salvadoran"""
34,"Building and design process. ""The gringo had the tiles and it's special,"" local Salvadoran kilns do not get hot enough to glaze ceramics. Process of building in El Salvador."
35,"Shellac bricks to help hold them together, ""everything is unstable"" as a result. Local craftsmen loved working with tiles. Altar placed directly on site where bodies were found."
36,"Altar. ""everyday we worked on this for a month"" Begged to be able to do actual work on altar. Change in landscape since building. "
37,"Traveled to El Salvador for 20th anniversary. Need to get involved, advocacy work. ""Speak out with more protest than the art"" School of the Americas protest. Sister in New Rochelle, New York. Eighty-two years old, went to prison ""because of Dorothy"""
38,"School of the Americas, social justice issues. Member of IRTF. ""Paid more attention to what Sheila was talking about."" Sister Martha Owen. ""had to do something quietly."" Lobbied in Washington, D.C. with IRTF. Steven LaTourette. "
39,"Steven LaTourette. ""He was such a nice guy, and he was a Republican. I couldn't believe it."" Other politicians ""were harsh."" Salvadoran generals involved in the murders were in the United States. Wanted the ""truth to come to light"" about these individuals living in the United States and what they had done in El Salvador."
40,"Cannot have peace without reconciliation. Become more involved slowly over time. Diana Ortiz, raped and tortured in Guatemala 1989. Arrested the first time in Washington in 1996. Again while protesting the School of the Americas. ""Barred and banned"" from coming to the School of the Americas for five years. "
41,"Twenty-fifth anniversary, asked permission to protest School of the Americas. Knew she had to get arrested again. Not given permission. Felt relieved, but the issue kept recurring."
42,"2007, involved in research project centered on art, activism, and teaching. ""Qualitative group"" for PhD work. After the death of mother and creation of the ""Shallow Grave"" piece. "
43,"Shallow Grave, figures of Dorothy Kazel and the other church women ""came up"". Time of mother's death, frantic. Not able to work ""intuitively"" on artwork. Spent time in art studio after mother's death."
44,"Image of women being removed from the ground impacted her art. ""Until I did something, I wasn't going to have any peace at all."" Questioned why she had to get arrested. Introvert, ""that's not who I am."" Ceramic gathering wanted to show Shallow Grave piece."
45,"Chris Reynolds, ""began to weep"" at sight of Shallow Grave piece. Taken aback by his reaction, he said ""For all the masculine in the world that have done these things, I want to offer my sorrow and I want to say I'm sorry. I want to say the men in the world did not mean to rape and torture them, and if they did, I'm sorry for this."" First apology for the murders of the four churchwomen to the Ursuline Community."
46,"His apology ""shook"" her. Evoked feeling similar to the one she felt when digging the altar in El Salvador. Chris Reynolds, connection with the world ""that is really special."" ""I think I'm supposed to get arrested again."" "
47,"Lobbied and wrote about School of the Americas. Chris Reynolds advice about making decision to get arrested again. 2007, decision to protest at School of the Americas and get arrested. "
48,"Seven friends advised her that she what she was supposed to do was get arrested. Support structure. Never feared prison, or getting arrested. Advocacy came out of the artwork."
49,"Experience getting arrested outside the School of the Americas. Realization, ""it wasn't about me,"" change the focus, she was the instrument."
50,"School of the Americas. Same practices. ""Keeping people poor,"" ""It's about what's happening to people today"" Felt happy that she could get ""this over with."" Young officers. "
51,"Humanized process of getting arrested. Officer looked at her as a person. Advocate for what she was doing. Process became ""relational"""
52,"Advocacy had to be in relation to Sister Dorothy Kazel, current situation. Struggle to keep focus on the core of the issue and off of her. ""I'm going to be the instrument."" ""If an ordinary, everyday person can do this, then there has to be something in it."""
53,"Prison experience. ""So relieved"" to be in prison. Stripped searched. Photographed for identification badge. ""Wonderful bond"" with guard. ""Always a link and a friend."" Met Native American women in prison."
54,"Prison experience. Prayed with Native American women in prison. Asked what tribe she belonged to, ""Cedar and Lavender."" Smothered in lavender and cedar prior to arrest by seven friends. Memory used to get through prison. Felt ""very loved by people who were in there, the inmates"""
55,"Inmates looked out for her. ""A lot of people had my back in there."" Naivete. Caused trouble, inadvertently, for the guards. Two months in prison."
56,"Hardest part was leaving prison. Prison: exhausting experience. ""Pick and choose"" activism causes carefully. Ten more good years. Prison reformation. Restorative justice."
57,"President Obama, prison reform. ""he's getting it, he understands it."" Thoughts on prison system, ""you get it the first ten minutes you're in there."" More aware of need for restorative justice."
58,"Maintained relationships with inmates, especially Native American women. Sustainability practices. Environmentalism. Connection with the earth. Served prison time in 2009. Allowed to create a lodge on property of Ursuline College, ""to pray like the Native women did"""
59,"Process of building lodge. Very sacred process. Asked permission to build it. Dreamed about it. Pray with ""earth and the creator and all the relations of the earth"" Environmental activism."
60,Audits on Ursuline property to make it more sustainable. Land easement. Coral Ecology group to promote land easement.
61,"Conservation of land along with Western Reserve. Building new, smaller mother house. Continued protest against the School of the Americas. Demonstrations on the Mexican-United States border. Workshops on art. "
62,"Angeles Mexico and Arizona. School of the Americas protest, October 2016. Prayed at detention centers on the way to the border. ""I could see myself ending up in prison"" again. ""I don't think I want to, but I can see that happening."""
63,"""Nobody ever wants to do that,"" go to prison."