Code,750010
Subject,Bishop Anthony Pilla
Date,8/4/2016
Interviewer,Naomi A. Randt (formerly Chris Morris)
Abstract,"Bishop Anthony M. Pilla served as the Bishop of the Diocese of Cleveland for twenty-five years. Appointed in 1980, his first official act was to receive the bodies of Sister Dorothy Kazel and Jean Donovan from El Salvador. In this interview, Bishop Pilla reflects on his time as Bishop of Cleveland and on the martyrdom of the Four Church women. He discusses the political side of sending a team of missionaries to a foreign country and on dealing with politicians in both the United States and El Salvador. Other topics include the impact of the work of the Catholic Church on the Salvadoran people and the common misconceptions among politicians, both in the United States and El Salvador towards the work of the missionaries."
Special Notes,"Cleveland Latin American Mission team, Dorothy Kazel, Diocese of Cleveland"
Minutes:,
0,"Born Cleveland, Ohio 1932. Childhood in Cleveland. Grew up in Little Italy, ""very ethnic neighborhood"""
1,"Childhood in Little Italy, ""families were really close, relatives were really close."" Siblings, one brother. Father, electrician, mother, homekeeper. Religious household. Parents were immigrants. ""The Catholic faith was part of who they were"" "
2,"Religion was not forced on them, ""something they came to know and love"" Cathedral Latin High School. Thoughts about entering the seminary. Parents ""were very supportive of the idea of becoming a priest"""
3,"Seminary experience. Went to St. Gregory's in Cincinnati, Cleveland did not have a ""minor seminary."" Prior to the opening of Borromeo Seminary. In first class to graduate from Borromeo College. ""Wonderful"" experience."
4,"Formed lifelong friendships with classmates. St. Bartholomew first assignment. Taught history, political science, and economics at Borromeo College. Majored in philosophy and theology in college. "
5,"Assigned to Bishop Hickey's staff, Personnel office in charge of priests and religious workers. Auxiliary Bishop under Bishop Hickey. Became Bishop of Cleveland in 1980. Nature of work under Bishop Hickey. ""dealt with all issues"" related to priests and religious workers. ""A great experience"""
6,"""A known entity"" in the Diocese of Cleveland when he became Bishop as a result of work under Bishop Hickey. Description of issues he dealt with as director of personnel. Nominated to Auxiliary Bishop by Bishop Hickey, Vatican appointed him."
7,"Reaction to being named Auxiliary Bishop, ""shocked"" but ""it worked out fine."" Replaced Bishop Hickey when he was appointed Cardinal and sent to Washington, D.C."
8,"First official act, ""receive the bodies of Dorothy Kazel and Jean Donovan,"" ""a life changing moment,"" Father Denis St. Marie, head of mission team, classmate of Bishop Pilla. Knew about El Salvador, but ""was not involved directly."""
9,"Story of receiving the bodies of Sister Dorothy Kazel and Jean Donovan. Dealings with the US State Department and the President of El Salvador. ""It was difficult getting the truth from both,"" called for assistance from both. "
10,"Impression of US State Department and government of El Salvador. ""I think they were a little bit suspect about how the religious were involved in El Salvador."" The missionaries served the people, were not involved politically. Missionaries under threat because of their efforts to help the people."
11,"Ambassador Robert White, ""an outstanding ambassador,"" ""he's told the truth"" about what was going on in El Salvador. "
12,"""Tried to make clear why we were there"" in dealing with US State Department and president of El Salvador. ""I'm not sure I convinced them"" of the validity of the work of the mission team. Experience dealing with politicians, both in El Salvador and the United States."
13,"Suspicions of military involvement with the murders of the four church women. Reaction in Cleveland to the murders. ""An enormous amount of anxiety for the remaining missionaries and a lot of pressure to bring them home"""
14,"Lack of understanding among broader community about why missionaries were allowed to stay in El Salvador. ""We were very committed"" to the work. People afraid for safety of missionaries."
15,Difficult to keep the missionaries in El Salvador. Called the team home to discuss the future of the mission work. Wanted team members to have a say in what happened with the mission work.
16,"Meeting with members of the Cleveland Latin American Mission team in Cleveland, January 1981. Decision to stay or not to stay, members ""were very eloquent. It was an edifying experience."" Greater reason to stay in the wake of the four martyrs. ""Very, very important that we stay."" Everyone spoke on the subject. No one spoke about not going back to El Salvador."
17,"Individual opinions were also written down. ""Very clear to me...how can I say to them, that you are not free to give your life for the sake of the Gospel? How can I tell them that? That's who we are."" Could not stop missionaries from returning, would have been ""contradictory"""
18,Eight people in the meeting plus director of mission office. Unanimous decision to go back. 
19,"Twenty-five years as Bishop of Cleveland. Always had volunteers for mission work in El Salvador, ""a marvelous history."" Sister Dorothy Kazel's funeral. Celebration of her life."
20,"Sister Dorothy Kazel's funeral. ""An alleluia person"" ""It was not morose and it was not sad, it was a real celebration"" of her life and work in El Salvador. Liturgy at St. John's Cathedral. 1100-1200 people attended. Similar numbers attended her funeral. ""Whatever it holds, the place was full."""
21,"Ursuline Sisters of Cleveland. ""Community commitment"" to El Salvador. Support and concern from greater Cleveland community, ""we had support."""
22,"Lack of protest against US involvement/foreign policy in El Salvador after martyrdom of four church women. ""We were there to serve the people of El Salvador. We are not there to be involved in any political process or protest process."" Collaborated when it was ""morally"" in line with Catholic Church."
23,"Message to missionaries, remain neutral. Threats from authorities. ""They had some concerns"""
24,"Revolutionary sense of helping people in El Salvador. Line between being helpful and seditious ""becomes very vague"" Difficult because ""if you were kind to the people who were rebels, the government was mad at you. If you were supportive of something the government was doing, the rebels would be made at you."" People were caught in the middle. ""Difficult ministry"""
25,"Catholic Church workers ""revered"" because they stayed and helped people. Creating of memorial for the four church women, ""at the place where they found the bodies"" built a memorial and a chapel."
26,"Support from the people of Cleveland in the creation of that memorial. ""Totally supported by charitable donations from the people of the Diocese"" Monetary support ""always came"""
27,"Diocese of Cleveland, ""blessed"" by the work of the missionaries in El Salvador. Youth groups sent to El Salvador, ""they really saw the value of doing that,"" eye-opening experiences."
28,"Impact of visiting El Salvador and witnessing the conditions people live in. ""Until you go and live there, you understand there is no place like this country"" Visited El Salvador twice, visited the orphanage (COAR House). Story about holding a child while visiting the COAR House. Carrying a child, ""I was going to put her down, and she wouldn't go down."" Nun, ""She's not used to being held by another human being, so when someone holds her, she doesn't want to leave that alone."""
29,"""That's why we had to be there. Where would she be if we weren't there?"" Trouble recalling names of places in El Salvador. Visited in the middle 1980s, maybe once in the 1990s."
30,"Impression of Salvadoran people. ""Very impressed with their faith"" despite all of the issues they faced. ""So grateful for the presence of our missionaries."" Difference between attitudes towards the work of the Catholic Church in Cleveland versus El Salvador."
31,"Anecdote of traveling into mountains to give mass. Very devoted to their faith. ""very warm, very outgoing."" ""It was a great place to be."" Ursuline commemorations. Annual occurrences at St. John's Cathedral. Anniversary celebration for presence in El Salvador and for the four church women; Sisters Dorothy Kazel, Ita Ford, Maura Clarke, and Laywoman Jean Donovan."
32,"Experience of those commemorations. ""Celebration"" ""It was so hard on Sister Dorothy's parents"" Strong faith-filled people."
33,"Celebration were impressive despite of the human sadness and sacrifices. ""Inspiring"" ""Everyone doesn't live in freedom and everyone doesn't live in prosperity,"" dedicating one's life to helping people like this is admirable."
34,"Scope of Catholic Church. ""No matter where they are,"" the poor people should be cared for around the world. Increase in the number of people who want to visit and work in other countries. Impact of visitors to El Salvador, ""for awhile it got to be a problem, because they couldn't do their ministry,"" there were too many foreign visitors. Education of El Salvador in schools. Effects of that history on students ""They want to get into professions that maybe will make life better for everybody."""
35,"Reasons for supporting mission work. Making sure students who will find themselves in positions of responsibility, have a ""moral view of what the world should be, you're going to have a better world."" Hospitals, elected officials, corporations. ""A moral dimension to every issue that ought to be part of the discussion."""
36,"Moral outlook in the world. ""A person with some moral sense making decisions, the workers are going to be better off."" "
37,"Process of finding out the truth of what happened to the four church women. Ambassador Robert White. Others did not want to talk about it. ""There wasn't any outcry, which was resented by the missionaries"" ""I don't think it was appropriate for us to be involved politically."""
38,"Contact with Ambassador Robert White. ""he's a good person"" Situation in Latin America in the 1980s. ""It was a difficult time in the United States"" "
39,"US involvement in Latin America. ""Politically it was a minefield for going down there."" Concerns about Communist influence in the region. ""A certain suspicion that seemed to pervade Washington about anybody trying to make life better"""
40,"Political difficulties in being involved in Latin America. ""The Church has always been in trouble area, if we stayed out of trouble we wouldn't be a good church."" Catholic Church sent to places where they are most needed. Politicians think of ""national interests. Something is right or wrong if it serves the national interest."" ""For us, it's the truth, whether we like it or not."" Frustrating dealing with that situation. ""Always had to take a patience pill before you made those calls."""
41,"Intersection between Catholic Church and politics. Familiarity with political system. ""It's never appropriate for a Bishop to get involved in the political process"" ""It's not good for the Church and it's not good for the political process"" Number of conversations with politicians, personally."
42,Support from the Vatican. Cleveland Latin American Mission team was response to call for aid to South America from the Holy See. 
43,"Holy See: ""Not the role of the Church"" to get involved in the political process in El Salvador. Reaction from Vatican after four church women were murdered. ""Saddened by it"" El Salvador not the only location religious workers were killed for their work."
44,"Catholic Church caught in between the right and the left. ""Humanizing"" mission of the Catholic Church throughout history."
45,"Community outreach and education on El Salvador. Ursuline schools. ""teach young people what was going on in South America"" and reasons for the turmoil. Honesty and forthrightness about the abuses in El Salvador. Difference between the Catholic Church and governments. ""We were there to change hearts, that isn't the way governments work."" Individual efforts to spread message of mission work and situation in El Salvador beyond Catholic community."
46,"Impact of mission work on missionaries. Work towards systematic changes. Advocates for the needy. Public discourse, ""deal with facts"" you cannot preach. "
47,"Argument from truth and facts in public arena. Catholic church ""should be involved in that."" Catholic church involvement in discussion on human rights issues. ""work for the welfare of every human being"""
48,"Related to Second Vatican Council. Church ""has always been hurt when it got too close to people in power"" historically. Vatican II, ""systematically"" brought helping the needy to the forefront. ""Great impact"" on the Catholic church being involved in the world. ""Moral consequences"" of today's issues, like health care."
49,"Catholic church's view on human rights. Education, health care, living wage."
50,"Catholic church and the political process. ""Can't go with those winds,"" ""We're not there for victories,"" there for the truth. "
51,"Dealing with politicians. ""A regular part"" of being Bishop. Tension between ""what works and what's right"" for politicians. Public discourse."
52,"Change in US foreign policy in El Salvador. ""Much more peaceful my last few years as bishop."" Change in relationship with government in El Salvador and in the region."
53,"Tensions eased in the region, ""government attitude towards our folks there"" eased. Patience and understanding for politicians not familiar with work of the Catholic church."
54,"Politicians not educated on the role, truth of the Catholic church's involvement in social issues. Salvadorans educated in the United States."
55,"Experience of missionaries in El Salvador after the civil war. ""More peaceful for them"" ""More ministry directed"" Impact of perceptions of Salvadoran government towards missionaries."
56,Concern for missionaries and potential misconceptions among military/government of El Salvador.
57,"""But God provides, that's one thing"""