Code,913060
Subject,John Bourne
Date,10/27/16
Interviewer,Mark Souther
Abstract,"John Bourne states that his third occupation is being a geneaologist. Due to his affinity for ancestral research he provides a lengthy sweep of the Bourne family history and how they came to Cleveland. At a young age he started to work at Central National Bank and he worked himself up through the ranks. He eventually transferred to Bank One. He soon left the banking world behind and got involved with commercial real estate. He has always been very involved in the University Circle area, especially with the Church of the Covenant. Throughout the interview Bourne mentions urbanization, suburbanization and the rise and fall of downtown Cleveland. "
Tags,"local government, Hough Riots, flight to the Heights, east side of Cleveland, Shaker Heights, Central National Bank, Bank One, Cortland Hills Village Council, downtown Cleveland, University Circle Inc. (UCI), University Circle, Church of the Covenant, urbanization, suburbanization, Kirtland Hills, Downtown Cleveland, Judson Manor "
Special Notes,The sound quality is excellent. 
minutes:,
0,"Introductions are made and John Bourne states that he was born at the McDonald House in Cleveland, Ohio in 1938. The McDonald House was incorporated into University Hospitals. "
1,His mother was from Pennsylvania and his father was from Cleveland. His mother went to Wesley College and later received two master degrees from Western Reserve University. She was a housewife and an educator. 
2,His father grew up on the east side of Cleveland. He graduated from Shaw High School and attended Dartmouth College. Bourne was in the advertising business. 
3,He explains how he got interested in genealogy. Bourne can trace his family back to the colonies in the 1600s. 
4,"Bourne was lucky because he was from the North. In the North records were not burned, like in the South. He had a grandmother who was hanged as a Salem witch. "
5,His family moved from Europe for opportunity. 
6,Baptism certificates are more readily available than birth certificates. He continues to discuss the intricacies of genealogy research. 
7,Many in his family were patriots. 
8,He explains that is first ancestor was a missionary in Cape Cod. He explains how the missionary aided a local Native American tribe. 
9,His first ancestor to migrate to Cleveland arrived in the late 1800s. He is a descendant of 10 people that sailed on the Mayflower. 
10,There is a Bourne Bridge in Cape Cod. The Broune family has been in the Cleveland area for roughly 135 years. 
11,The Bourne's that came to Cleveland were merchants. His grandfather was the first none family employee of the Oglebay Norton Company. His grandfather also worked for Republic Steel. 
12,His other grandfather bought the Prudential Insurance Company in Cleveland from the Prudential headquarters in New Jersey. Both grandfather's retired before World War II and moved to California. They lived on the east side of Cleveland. 
13,The Bourne family moved onto 116th Street and later purchased a farm in Chagrin Falls. The Macintosh side also lived on the east side and were very involved in their churches.
14,He mentions the ways the churches operated their budgets. He remarks on the exclusion of women from the interworkings of the churches. 
15,"He describes a morning coat. His mother was very educated for her time, she eventually became the Headmistress at a school in New Jersey. "
16,"By the time Bourne was born, his parents lived in Shaker Heights. He attended Malvern School, the Boulevard School, Shaker Junior High and the Western Reserve Academy for four years. He went to the Univeristy of Pennsylvania. "
17,"He explains why he decided to go to the University of Pennsylvania. In Ohio, by law you could not get a job until you were 16. His first job was as a messenger for the Central National Bank. He got the job because his grandfather was good friends with the President of the Bank. "
18,He carried mail for the bank. He worked his way up through the bank and fill-in at various branches.
19,After he graduated from college and then graduate school he accepted a full time position as Vice President at Central National Bank. He ended up accepting a position later at Bank One as the manager of private banking. 
20,He graduated with his MBA in 1963 and returned to Cleveland. He lived in Kirtland Hills in Lake County. He lists the various community programs and organizations he was involved. 
21,He had to commute to downtown Cleveland everyday. He served on the financial committee of the village council. The big issue the village council tackled was road maintanence. 
22,The village council was very genteel and not competitive. 
23,In the mid-1960s it took a long time to get to downtown because the interbelts were just being built. Downtown was the heart of the community. 
24,Bourne continues to describe the vibrancy of Cleveland in the mid-1960s. He also comments on the resurgence of downtown. 
25,He first noticed the decline of downtown when he switched professions from commercial banking to commercial real estate. He explains how the real estate business allowed him to notice the decline of downtown. 
26,He compares commercial banking to commercail real estate and highlights the similarities. 
27,He contrasts residential real estate to the commercial real estate business. 
28,"Bourne remarks that he was aware of the decline of the Playhouse Square area. However, he was much more involved with Severance Hall and the Cleveland Art Museum. "
29,He served as a Tustee on University Circle Inc. (UCI) from 2000-2005. 
30,He also is a member of the Western Reserve Historical Society and his wife was involved with the Cleveland Institute of Music. Bourne explains that he and his wife are very much invovled in the University Circle community. 
31,In the 1970s Bourne was not really involved in the Univeristy Circle community. 
32,Going to church was not voluntary when he was a young boy. Most everything that his generation did while growing up was not a discussion it was a commandment. 
33,He went to church and went to Sunday School. 
34,Before he went away to school the church had two services and today they have one. There are more pastors and women were not allowed in leadership positions. He mentions the national decline in church attendance. 
35,The Church of the Covenant is well endowed. He is in charge of the financial departments at the church. Many people in the neighborhood comment about the rose window the church has above their main door. 
36,He further discusses the importance of doing small things for the surrounding community. The church attracts international students. 
37,"The church serves all students, especially from Case. Many of the students come to the church because of its convenient location. The student church goers help in the church sponsored neighborhood tutoring program. "
38,The membership to the church has declined in the past around the time of the Hough Riots in 1966. Bourne notes that all inner-city churches at that time lost members due to the flight to the heights. 
39,Bourne mentions that his own family participated in the flight to the heights phenomenon. Today the church has members from all over northeastern Ohio counties. 
40,He does suggest that the Hough Riots caused many people to flee to the suburbs. 
41,Bourne continues to describe how the Hough Riots devastated Cleveland. 
42,Souther inquires as to how much potential buyers factor quality of life issues into their decision before making a real estate purchase. 
43,"Bourne responses that each company is different, but it all comes down to economics. He continues that Cleveland offered commercial companies many benefits. "
44,In Cleveland today Bourne argues that there is a high quality of life. He attributes much of Cleveland's more recent success to the Cleveland Clinic. 
45,Bourne continues to explain why Cleveland is again on the rise. 
46,"The fall of the city of Cleveland, in Bourne's estimation, was under the leadership of Mayor Kucinich in the 1970s. "
47,Bourne suggests that Mayor Voinovich was able to bridge the gap between the city council and the mayoritorial administration. Voinovich brought the city back together. 
48,"After Mayor White's administration, Bourne suggests that the city languished. However, times were hard economically during White's administration. "
49,In the early 2000s businesses were leaving Cleveland and suburban shopping centers were growing. He believes that White's administration cannot solely be blamed for Cleveland's decline. 
50,Bourne returns to discuss his involvement in national geneaology groups. 
51,He has made many friends and connections with others all over the country. He enjoys living in Judson because of the people. 
52,"They came to Judson from Pepper Pike. They looked at other places, but Judson's location was what sold them. "
53,He also comments on the intelligence of the residents and staff at Judson. 
54,Bourne notes how Cleveland has shown nationally how great of a city it is through the PR the city received from the RNC and the sport championships. 
55,The interview ends. 
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