Code,999079
Subject,Karl Johnson
Date,8/9/10
Interviewer,Michelle Epps
Abstract,"Karl Johnson discusses his experience of being a Cleveland tour guide, lesser known stories of Cleveland's past, the railway system, Urban renewal and public housing, and the issue of race and racism in Cleveland and America. His interview consists of personal stories, thoughts on public housing, and a discussion of the Hough and Glenville riots which leads to discussion of race."
Tags,
Special Notes,
Minutes: ,50
0,Born in Cleveland on June 2 1934. Always lived in Cleveland except for 4 years in Military and 2 years earning degree. Would give tours of Cleveland when people would visit.
1,"Wife went on walking tours in Seattle and San Francisco, suggested that he could do it in Cleveland, initially ignored her advice but decided to start doing them in 1998. Still uses route he used on the first day. "
2,"In 2004 saw segway on Frasier and incorporated it in tour. Many things Cleveland's don't know, JFK wanted ""That Italian Mayor"" to be secretary of health education and welfare."
3,"Anthony Calabrese went through background check and was taken to DC. JFK wanted Joseph Alioto from San Francisco mayor but in order to avoid embarrassment Calabrese was awarded the position. Was a good administrator and served for Kennedy and Johnson, became a federal judge, and died in 1998. "
4,In the early year of NASA (before it was NASA) scientists would use the elevator shafts of the terminal tower for weightlessness experiments on the weekend. Station at E55th and Euclid station had wonderful architecture with a huge peaked roof. 
5,"Reason station was there was because Pennsylvania Railroad insisted on controlling whatever station it went into, terminal tower was owned by New York Central. Father would take train while family would fly. Father involved in politics and was forced to fly at one point, but never enjoyed it. "
6,Would go visit uncle in Indianapolis on spring vacation. Would go to Cleveland Union Terminal and find a red cap. A red cap was a man who wore red leather hat who helped you with luggage. Red caps would take him down the freight elevator and give him pick of the seats.
7,"Took train trip to Columbus with a modern dining car. Something elegant about train travel, sit in comfort and the world goes by. While in Air Force was stationed in Korea, went to Tokyo and was put on train to go to another base and then flew to Korea."
8,"While on train discovered sparkling apple juice. Whiskey Island is a peninsula, not an island. Bootleg comes from when men would hide illegal liquor in the boot."
9,"Bootleg Whiskey come to northern ohio on Whiskey Island. There were bars there, but the law ignored it. Whiskey Island now has a park called Wendy Park. Hoped that it would named after the man who fought to keep it a park."
10,"Mother would call Central Market the Sheriff Street Market, because it was on Sheriff Street. Pretty much wiped out the largest Italian neighborhood. Little Italy on Mayfield is where stone mason lived. Most stone work was done by Italian immigrants."
11," West Side Market was built in 1912, up until then merchants displayed wares on W 25th street. Market originally had a water tank in the tower in case of fire. Inch or two higher on the east end in case they needed to wash it out, creates no puddles. More than 100 merchants. Finest building of its kind in the world."
12,"There are others that are bigger, but Cleveland's is the finest. Architect of Ellis Island was the architect of the West Side Market. Central Market is on the site of the Gateway where Progressive field and the Quicken Loans Arena are now."
13,"Never saw Central Market. Grandfather would walk downtown from E 105th to shop and walk home with it. Parents did not like Woodland Hills road so registered him from grandparents home on South Blvd, coming home got lost. "
14,"Followed grandfather down 105th and eventually realized he was lost, told grandfather who took him home. Neighborhood house is still there. President of Garden Valley neighborhood center."
15,"Slag is the waste material from forging of molten iron. Plan was to fill valley where kingsbury runs murders took place with slag and build houses there. Found other uses for slag, so steel companies started selling slag. Garden Valley is controlled by Cuyahoga metropolitan housing authority."
16,Six of them are not in city. Area that has been largely ignored. Very little urban renewal and no gentrification. Cleveland at one time had more acres of land designated as urban renewal than any other cities in US. Tore houses down but the money did not follow.
17,Behind the riverview towers land that they wanted to turn into condo's. were not able to do this but turned it into Urban Farming.  
18,"Buy houses from the owners and the tear houses down. Poor people are forced outwards from the center city, blight spreads. Happened in Garden Valley, apartments displaced people. "
19,"Huff area popular because houses had central heating, Garden Valley used kerosene stoves. Last outhouses in Cleveland at East 55th and Woodland. Torn down for the ""O"" project. Community college and interbelt also tore down houses. When ""city fathers"" want something new they want something new they build it in places they think should not be."
20,71 south ran through the only black neighborhood on the West Side of Cleveland.
21,"Living in public housing is a ""stamp on your forehead."" Those who don't live there have fiction that they are living where they want to."
22,"Main proponent of public housing was Ernie Bone who was a national expert on public housing. Theory was that you lump all the poor people together, but it does not work. Building torn down due to excessive vandalism."
23,"If you are going to have a large building concentrated, make it a co-op run by the residents. More control than a bureaucrat. "
24,"1960 had Hough and Glenville riots. Son was six at time, realized that his son refused to say negro. Found that son had seen riots on TV and was ashamed."
25,Much of rioting was from people protesting the circumstances of the way they were forced to live. Showed quotes about people not shooting firefighters. Only shooting that took place was by police who shot family trying to escape violence.
26,"Son no longer ashamed to be black, but is militant about inequities and unfairnesses. Spent adult life trying to fight it. Son is working as architect. "
27,"Enrolled at graduate school of design at Harvard, went to inner city high school and recruited 12 students, gave them a meal and taught them architecture. "
28,Father ran for office and campaigned with an old milk truck and a horse. 
29,Cleveland Press photographer said picture of it in paper was unfair for other candidates. Father did not win. Father was president of John Harlan law club.
30,"Father took look at what was going on in the courts. Judges and lawyers would hang out, but the black lawyers were often left out. Every christmas the John Harlan law club would have a Christmas party to allow for judges and black lawyers to mingle. Father went to Western Reserve University law school."
31,"Mother's brother graduated from Case as an engineer but could not get job due to race. Became a social worker until a classmate got a high level job at Alcoa and gave him a job. Mother's youngest brother became a dentist. Had been teaching chemistry at Fisk and was working to become a doctor, but failed the dean of the medical school's wife."
32,There has been an increase of interest of the Tuskegee airmen as experiment to show that black people could not fly.
33,Eleanor Roosevelt was a champion of the downtrodden. Her pilot was Lewis Jackson who was Johnson's dean at Central State. Quiet intellectual man.
34,Friend of father landed plane in private field and gave Johnson his first plane ride and was a tuskegee airman. Color of skin rarely occurs to him until it gets in the way.
35,"Colleague and he was trying to start a business but was afraid that they would break his truck, thinking that black people were blue collar. Racism is emotional, nothing logical about it. "
36,"Father born in Georgia wanted to go to high school but it cost money but heard that it was free in Tennessee, mother let him move. His champion was a Greek professor."
37,"When father lived and worked in Tennessee had to stay out of school for two weeks to work and buy shoes. People were sitting out black playing checkers and would call him a ""good little nigger."""
38,Swore he would get to a place where they wouldn't say that to him because of his position. Father was invited to Johnson's White house for a state dinner. Father was a delegate to Democratic convention in 1960. Named all five delegates.
39,Truman flew to LA to make sure Kennedy did not get nomination. Kennedy encouraged supporters to run for the job of delegate which made it a done deal. Kennedy won in first ballot and threw the convention into an uproar. 
40,"Ohio would break deadlock. Kennedy offered Johnson the vice presidency and accepted. Ohio delegation caucused and was in an uproar, father suggested support of Johnson for VP which calmed potential fight and was thanked by Johnson administration."
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42,Father practiced general law. Reunited more couples than he ever divorced. 
43,"All prosecutors were white, but little by little began to integrate. Carl Stokes was a prosecutor. All major law firms were white. "
44,Father was able to study in white law firm library but was not able to work there. Father worked at resort on Atlantic Ocean. Captain Jack was a visitor who would frequently come. Wife accused father of tearing her dress.
45,Wife had loaned dressed to her maid which she wore to a dance and father had ripped it while they were dancing.
46,"Situation where woman was ok with maid wearing clothing, but not to be close to her. ""In the south white people don't care how close we get they don't want us to get to high. In the north people don't mind how high we get, they just don't want us to get too close."" Famous designer keeping company with Bobby Short who was a black pianist. Wanted to buy condo in nice building but was denied because boyfriend might come to visit. "
47,"Not logical, emotional. When sons were students at University School another student decided his son was a ""punching bag."" Always told son to hit back, which son would do in class. "
48,"Both students were threatened to be expelled, situation was resolved when another black student joined class and became punching bag. "
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50,Audio ends
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