Abstract
Florence Sutowski was born in 1927 and has spent her entire life in the Tremont neighborhood. Sutowski describes Tremont as a safe and ethnically diverse community, primarily inhabited by Polish, Ukrainian, Slovak, and Russian immigrants who worked in local steel mills. She reflects on the strong sense of community, where residents often left their doors unlocked and intermarriage among ethnic groups was common, despite some preference for marrying within one's own ethnicity. Sutowski shares her personal history, including her family's immigration story, her work at Wagner Awnings, and her experiences raising six children in the neighborhood. She also discusses the impact of urban development, such as highway construction, on Tremont, lamenting the displacement of residents and the decline of local businesses while acknowledging recent revitalization efforts.
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Interviewee
Sutowski, Florence (interviewee)
Project
Tremont History Project
Date
2003
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
29 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Florence Sutowski interview, 2003" (2003). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 223069.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1376
Transcript
Interviewer [00:00:01] Could you please tell me your name?
Florence Sutowski [00:00:03] Florence Sutowski.
Interviewer [00:00:06] Could you please spell that for me?
Florence Sutowski [00:00:07] F, L, O, R, E, N, C, E. S, U, T, O, W, S, K, I. I should have said capital S. Capital S. [laughs]
Interviewer [00:00:22] Okay, thank you very much. Were you born in the Tremont area?
Florence Sutowski [00:00:25] I was born a block away. 1029 Starkweather Avenue. 1927.
Interviewer [00:00:35] Yeah? Were you- Were you always in this neighborhood?
Florence Sutowski [00:00:42] All my life. All my life. All my life. Yep.
Interviewer [00:00:47] Okay. Can you tell me any childhood memories you have of there?
Florence Sutowski [00:00:53] It was a very safe neighborhood to live in. Very safe because it was mostly ethnic people. Polish, Ukrainian, Slovak, Russian. And most of them at that time worked in the steel mills that were in big production at the time. Republic Steel and Jones and Laughlin. And that’s why a lot of the people live further down, like Saint Tichon, Saint Olga, West 7th where that was close. [inaudible comment about tape recorder] Is it okay?
Interviewer [00:01:37] We are fine.
Florence Sutowski [ 00:01:38] Where it was close to the mill, you know, and that’s why there are so many different churches in the neighborhood. St. John Cantius, my parish was Polish. St. Theodosius was Russian. St. Peter and Paul on college was Ukrainian. Okay. St. John, St. Theodosius, St. Peter and Paul’s of course, St. Augustine’s on West 14th Street. Yeah. Which originally- St. Augustine’s originally was the old Pilgrim Church. And then they built the big one now that’s there on the corner of West 14th and Starkweather. And then St. Augustine’s block and then St. Vladimir’s on West 11th Street, that was Ukrainian. It was a neighborhood of churches.
Interviewer [00:02:42] Now, did you feel, because it was ethnically diverse, there was no tension, people got along?
Florence Sutowski [00:02:49] Oh, absolutely not. I mean, they all kept, you know, to their own. It wasn’t, you know, I mean, Polish stay with the Polish, Slovaks with the Slovaks, you know, Russians with the- But there was no conflict, you know, it was very safe. It was very- You could go to sleep at night. I remember when I was young, I mean, you could go away for the whole day and leave your doors unlocked in your house. Nobody ever broke in. And you never had to lock your windows at night when it was hot. You know, it had the screens in them. And it was very safe neighborhood at the time.
Interviewer [00:03:33] Did people out of their ethnic groups, did they date and marry?
Florence Sutowski [00:03:39] Oh, yeah. With some of the nationalities, you marry your own, you know, you don’t go into another. But that happened. But mostly my husband’s Polish. I’m Polish, you know, and- And- But there were some where Polish would marry Russian or Irish or-
Interviewer [00:04:01] So it wasn’t uncommon?
Florence Sutowski [00:04:03] No, no, but it wasn’t all that.
Interviewer [00:04:06] But it wasn’t very- Oh, I understand. Okay. Did they did in your house, did you guys speak any languages outside of Polish and English?
Florence Sutowski [00:04:16] English, Polish and English.
Interviewer [00:04:20] Did your parents grew up here in Tremont too?
Florence Sutowski [00:04:28] No, no, my father came from Poland. He was in the United States Army. He was a veteran of the First World War. My mother was raised by her aunt, and she was down in South America at the time it was wild. She would tell me about Rio de Janeiro and Brazil, you know, and then she didn’t talk about it too much. Then when she came to the States, you know, like a lot of them that came from Ellis Island, you know, and couldn’t speak the language and they had to learn the American language, the English language, to get along. Now, I don’t want to sound prejudiced, but were they stressed now you have to learn Spanish, you have to learn this. That was never done. To the immigrants that came here years and years ago, you know, they learned the language and they found good job. My father was a master plumber. You know, they. They had pride. They had pride. They worked for what they had.
Interviewer [00:05:45] You know, what if work brought them to Cleveland or do you know how they came to Cleveland?
Florence Sutowski [00:05:49] I don’t- [crosstalk] I have no idea because I guess wherever the Polish communities were, the Russian or that, you know, if they had someone here they could live with, you know.
Interviewer [00:06:03] Your father was a plumber?
Florence Sutowski [00:06:05] A master plumber.
Interviewer [00:06:07] And did your mother work?
Florence Sutowski [00:06:09] No, she did not. No.
Interviewer [00:06:11] Did your father work here in Tremont?
Florence Sutowski [00:06:13] Well, he was a plumber. All around here on the east side. Everywhere.
Interviewer [00:06:16] Okay. Did you work anywhere in the neighborhood during your life?
Florence Sutowski [00:06:23] I worked, before I got married, I worked at Wagner Awnings on Scranton and Auburn.
Interviewer [00:06:31] On the street.
Florence Sutowski [ 00:06:32] Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah.
Interviewer [ 00:06:37 ] Can you describe what a typical day of work was like there?
Florence Sutowski [00:06:43] You didn’t get paid the money people get paid today. Not. Oh, my God, you didn’t even come close. And I’m talking in the ’40s, you know that. But they were good working conditions. It was good things. Operated power sewing machines, you know, and during the war, where they had contracts with the government where you would make some different things, you know, like the big heavy tarps that they would cover the army trucks with over the frames or gun sight cases and- Yeah. Besides awnings.
Interviewer [00:07:23] Do you remember where children played when children grew up here with Lincoln Park paid or what they did?
Florence Sutowski [00:07:28] While Lincoln Park was there? Yeah, they had the screens and we called them the monkey bars that you, you know, and. But mostly in their Own yard. You know, my mother, I always. My husband always told me my mother kept me in the backyard too long. [laughs] But I mean, you didn’t see them running wild. There was where parents had control, were not strict, but made sure they knew where their children were and made sure they weren’t causing trouble. You know. They had good clean fun. They didn’t have what they had today, computers, and they found their own fun.
Interviewer [00:08:14] When you were a teenager, can you describe what dating was like in the neighborhood, what you guys did?
Florence Sutowski [00:08:20] Well, it was mostly with girlfriends. You know. My maid of honor, God rested, so she passed away. But her and I, you know, we were always together in this day and age, you know what we would be judged as, you know, because we were very close. We were not- I don’t want to say that my girlfriends had girlfriends. You went to the show together. You went here, you went there, there and, yeah.
Interviewer [00:08:54] Yeah. Where did- In the neighborhood, where did you or your parents or your family shop at grocery shop?
Florence Sutowski [00:09:06] Well, we had the West Side Market where my mother, I would go with my mother. And then up on West 14th Street here, now we’re the big art gallery. It’s, you know, when the flower shop is. And there was a big clover store there at one time. So, you know, you did some of your shopping, but mostly the market, mostly the market, West Side Market.
Interviewer [00:09:34] Now, were you always a member of Saint John Cantius?
Florence Sutowski [00:09:37] All my life. I was baptized there. I made my communion. My. I was married there. All my children. Not all of them. Jerry, Tommy, my daughter, they were married in St. John Cantius. Yeah.
Interviewer [00:09:56] Did you tend to live around your neighbors who went to the same church?
Florence Sutowski [00:10:03] No, our next door neighbors to the one side were Irish. They belonged to St. Augustine’s, where I was growing up on Starkweather, and the house next to us, they were Greek. No, I don’t know if they attended church or not, but, you know, it was like a potpourri. But everybody got along.
Interviewer [00:10:23] Was Mass- Mass was said in Polish?
Florence Sutowski [00:10:30] From the beginning, yeah. And then from- And then in English. Both, you know.
Interviewer [00:10:36] They still have a mass in Polish, don’t they?
Florence Sutowski [00:10:38] On Sunday, 9:30. Yeah.
Interviewer [00:10:41] They don’t adjust on those. [laughs]
Florence Sutowski [00:10:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Interviewer [00:10:47] Do you have any memories of Lincoln Park being built?
Florence Sutowski [00:10:51] Well, it was there when I, you know, when I was born. It was always a beautiful place, always very well kept up. And now where the building is, you know, for the showers, where the swimming pool is, there was a big old wooden bandstand there, where, you know, once in a while they would have orchestras come in, you know, for the people in the neighborhood to play. And it was a safe place at that time, you know.
Interviewer [00:11:22] Was the park used for anything else?
Florence Sutowski [00:11:24] Not in those days. Not until lately. Where, you know, they get permits for this or that. Whereas not years ago, Jeff. No, because it was just a place for someone to sit down and rest and enjoy or a shortcut to walk through, you know, like if you wanted to come from Starkweather to Kenilworth or you just got right through, you know. Mm hmm.
Interviewer [00:11:51] Do you have any memories of World War II during the time while the industry was here?
Florence Sutowski [00:11:58] Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, we had- There was rationing, you know, you had to get stamps for meat, ration stamps, just so much and for sugar. And where we had, oh, what do you call them, blackouts, you know, where they would have- I can’t think of a word. Oh, Lord, you know, for everybody. Where, you know, you shut the lights off because they say just the light of one match could be seen from above if, God forbid, you know, any planes were coming over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they had big air raid sirens on top of Tremont School, you know, whenever we had the blackout. Ah, I can’t think of the word. Not exercise, but like a testing, you know. Yeah, you’re right, you’re right. Yeah.
Interviewer [00:13:03] Did you have any family that was involved?
Florence Sutowski [00:13:06] My eldest brother, but then he was discharged for heart health reasons. He wasn’t in the actual World war.
Interviewer [00:13:15] Okay. Now, you said you were married.
Florence Sutowski [00:13:17] Oh, yeah.
Interviewer [00:13:18] For how long?
Florence Sutowski [00:13:20] Well, we were married in 1946. Had my husband still lived, we would have celebrated 57 years together this past February.
Interviewer [00:13:35] Was he from Tremont? Was he-
Florence Sutowski [00:13:37] Oh, yeah. He left. You know where the Merrick House is? Okay. His family owned the four-family apartment building next to it. And at that time, the Merrick House was not the building that it is now. It was two wooden buildings with like storefronts, but they were active, you know, for the children in the neighborhood and- Yeah.
Interviewer [00:14:05] How’d you meet them?
Florence Sutowski [00:14:07] We lived across the street from each other. Never- My husband was eight years older than I was. Okay. When he came home, he was discharged. I never knew him, he never knew me. But his eldest brother, he was such a funny person. He said to his brother, did you meet the plumber’s daughter yet? You know, meaning across the street, not something like the farmer’s daughter. [lauhgs]And he said, no, you know, well, before he was discharged, his very good buddy that they were together. My husband went to Pearl Harbor when it was bombed. He was a Pearl Harbor survivor. But his friend was discharged first. He might have been told. And he’s a relief. You get back to the States, go to Cleveland, tell my mother I’m all right and I’ll be home soon. Well, that good buddy came and made a home for himself, you know. And my mother in law welcomed him. She was happy, you know, that he knew, you know, my husband. Well, he got a plan with me first. And he took at that time to me. I don’t know if you remember Frankie Yankovic? Yeah, okay. On St. Clair, he had his. Yeah, okay. He used to come. I’m gonna take you hear some good polka music. Well, we went. Well, this Chuck, he didn’t dance. He didn’t know how to dance. He just sat and listened and who should walk in but my husband, you know, Chuck introduced me to my husband. His name was Alex, but he had the nickname Cale. Everybody knew him as Cale. He sat down, you know, and I was 18 years old at the time, you know, Coca Cola couldn’t drink any of the hard stuff or beer. So Chuck couldn’t dance, you know, and there you sit on your chair, you’re dancing on the chair. So my husband asked, he said, would you care to dance? I’d love to. So we were polkaing, you know. Well, Chuck got mad. He says, I’m going home. You can take her home. [laughs] And that’s how we met. Really!
Interviewer [00:16:32] That’s awesome. No, no. I’m assuming you were married at Cantius.
Florence Sutowski [00:16:39] Oh, yes.
Interviewer [00:16:39] Okay.
Florence Sutowski [00:16:40] Oh, yes.
Interviewer [00:16:42] Did you have a wedding reception?
Florence Sutowski [00:16:43] Oh, yeah.
Interviewer [00:16:44] Where was that at?
Florence Sutowski [00:16:46] Well, okay, now we’re- That was the old. The Polish Veterans Post 30. But now it’s on the corner of Stark Weather as you’re coming down and that big- But in those days it was on West 11th Street. It was in the back of a house. It was a small hall and now it’s part. Part of the playground for Merrick House. My reception was there because my dad belonged to Post 30. And it was not big hall, you know, but that’s where it was.
Interviewer [00:17:23] Do you have any memories at the reception or.
Florence Sutowski [00:17:27] Oh God, yes. Oh, God, yes. We were like sardines packed in that little hall. But it was a good old-fashioned Polish wedding.
Interviewer [00:17:37] Do you have any traditions there that you had at the reception or the wedding? Any Polish traditions?
Florence Sutowski [00:17:46] Well, like when you came home from church after the wedding mass, the cook, you know, the caterer, she greeted you at the door with bread, salt and a shot of whiskey. Mm hmm. Yeah. And at that time, okay, that was- We were married post war where liquor was still being rationed so everybody my husband knew. He asked if they would buy the liquor for us to have for the wedding because things were still on ration, you know.
Interviewer [00:18:23] Okay, switch it up a little. Do you have any memories of when they built the highways? Construction of the highways?
Florence Sutowski [00:18:31] That was the worst thing they could have done to this neighborhood. Bike. Because they took the best part of the neighborhood. I’m talking West 14th Street, like, starting. Okay. As you get off of the freeway and you’re coming- There’s some of those homes are still there. And so. But when you come to the bridge coming this way, so many beautiful homes were taken. And the side street off West 14th Street, where it was a- It was the- They took the best part of the neighborhood. Yeah. And then after they- Then they started. I’ve got a freeway behind my house, 25 years ago, they built the first time. And it came to a complete dead end just beyond our property. And it was that way for over 20 years. And it was nothing but a dumping ground for tires and junk cars and just a big mess until they started on I-490, where they completed it. But they took the best part of it. And it was a shame. At that time, they offered people money, you know, and. And people thought it was fair. That’s why a lot of them are out in Parma today that lived here in the neighborhood.
Interviewer [00:19:58] Do you remember anything about, like, when they built highways compared to when we built the bridge, like the Abbey Road and Clark Bridge?
Florence Sutowski [00:20:08] Oh, my God. The old Clark Bridge that took you from the west side to the east side. That was a long bridge. It went over the entire valley back there. Yeah. It took you from here to East 49th and you were on the east side already. Yeah, yeah. Abbey Bridge was closed down for quite a few years, you know, to go to the market and, you know, we were like, isolated, there for a while with the Clark Bridge gone and with the Abbey Bridge.
Interviewer [00:20:50] In your mind, how has the neighborhood changed and developed over the years? What are some of the things that have changed?
Florence Sutowski [00:20:56] From good. From good. Very good. Everybody owned down from, like I said, you know, all these people that came here, worked in the mills, and that was- Well, when the parents passed away, the children, I guess, didn’t want the property. They didn’t care who they sold through. And the biggest problem we had for quite a while was with slum landlords that didn’t care who they rented to as long as they got their money, you know, and beautiful properties really went to waste because of that. And then when we got some of our block. Blocks in the neighborhood, you know, people figured enough is enough, you know, we’re going to do something about it. And thank God nobody ever thought. Nobody ever thought like that. West 5th, West 6th, West 7th, all of those streets where all of those gorgeous townhouses are that are going for over $200,000. Because at one time that was- Anybody that lived up here, that was- That was slums down there, you know, and look at it today. Look, I don’t know. I don’t think anybody ever had a vision of what would be built up, but thank God it’s good for the neighborhood. And all those restaurants on Professor, you know, maybe not all the residents go there, but you’ve got people coming in from all around. Years ago, it was a busy street. They had dry goods stores, the bank, of course, they had a Fisher’s there. There were a lot of businesses on Professor and of course, a lot of bars. [laughs]
Interviewer [00:22:47] Do you remember any of the jobs that people worked? I know you said mills, but-
Florence Sutowski [00:22:54] Well, once they closed, it was a diverse city. It was a diverse video things like, you know, where, okay, GM came in, Chevy, Ford, that. A lot of- A lot of people went, you know, to work for those companies or in construction or, you know.
Interviewer [00:23:14] Do you- What do you remember about like. Or was there a lot of small stores, corner stores?
Florence Sutowski [00:23:24] Oh, God, yes. This one right on the corner, as you came around the corner, that was a grocery store and a butcher shop, Mike. Then there was a little store on Fruit, which is now a small art gallery. That was a small grocery store, butcher shop. On Professor, across the street from the church, which is now the Treehouse. That was a Polish butcher shop, grocery store. Oh, yeah. There were a lot of individual small stores when the big supermarkets came in, that killed them. You know?
Interviewer [00:24:01] Did people who were Polish tend to go to Polish-owned businesses?
Florence Sutowski [00:24:07] Like, small. Like it. For certain things? If you want your Polish kielbasa, you know, some of your Polish food, some of the Polish meats they made, they would go for that. Yeah, but.
Interviewer [00:24:20] So even though there was a lot of strong ties to your ethnicity, there wasn’t a lot of, like, people did shop at other-
Florence Sutowski [00:24:30] Oh, yeah. What you couldn’t get in one store, you go to the other.
Interviewer [00:24:35] Yes. Okay. Did anyone in your family or you ever belong to like a Polish club or like an ethnic club? Or no?
Florence Sutowski [00:24:50] My husband belonged to a Polish PLAV, Polish Legion of American Veterans. I was never a club person. I didn’t have time. I had six children. [laughs]
Interviewer [00:25:05] Would you mind talking about what it was like raising six children in Cleveland?
Florence Sutowski [00:25:08] It was good. It was good. They didn’t have problems with drugs or what Goes on. Now, you know where a child disappeared. They stayed in their own neighborhood. Like where the freeway is 490 now, okay. There used to be a football field or that on the court as you come around. We always call that the dump. That was the kids best playground over there. In the wintertime they would- They would take garbage can lids and go sliding down in the snow. Or in the winter they’d go up, up, down West 11th Hill and up, you know, towards west, towards Clark. They would gather Christmas trees and burn ’em and be sledding. It was [inaudible] They. And they made their own fun. They made it. They found things to do, you know, they found like Mr. Maichrye, his mother lived on Clarence Court. My kids, his kids, because they lived in our house for 17 years before they moved out. You know, bought their home on West 10th. We were like one family. And they drove by Mr. Maichrye’s mother house. They’d have potato roast. They had good clean fun. Play army, bring home pollywogs and frogs for me. They put them in my washtubs. I mean, it was what children. They grew up as children. Not, you know, you didn’t have to worry about it really. Really. And we always knew where they were. You know.
Interviewer [00:26:46] How about when you were child, what do you remember about doing around here?
Florence Sutowski [00:26:52] Like I said, it was- I was a very- My mother wouldn’t let me out of the yard. No, you’re not going to the park. I was her baby.
Interviewer [00:26:59] Yeah.
Florence Sutowski [00:26:59] So, you know. No, you’re- You’re going to be with me where I see what you’re doing. Where you-
Interviewer [00:27:07] Now, now you mentioned about people living in the same house and that, from what my father said, that was pretty common. A lot of families live together.
Florence Sutowski [00:27:16] Oh, well, yeah. Like children live with parents, you know. See, this is a two family house, Mike. Okay. We had the front, Maichryes lived in the back for 17 years, you know. But like I say, we were like one family. Got along very well. Kids grew up together. Mike Maichrye and my son Jerry, to this day, are the best of friends. Are the best of friends. Yeah.
Interviewer [00:27:49] I’m pretty much done. Is there anything else you want to share or talk about you’d like anybody to know about the neighborhood?
Florence Sutowski [00:28:01] I remember. You ever see the movie the Deer Hunter?
Interviewer [00:28:05] Yes.
Florence Sutowski [00:28:05] I remember when they were filming that.
Interviewer [00:28:07] Yeah.
Florence Sutowski [00:28:08] Over at Lemkos Hall. Now that- Okay. That works. Big walks and everything. And that was a bar downstairs. And upstairs was the dance hall where people held wedding receptions and that. Yeah. Now on our corner, as you go up Auburn, as you’re leaving the corner building, that was, years ago they called it the Bolshevik Hall [inaudible], but they had wedding receptions there. Now it’s a photographer studio. Professional photographer studio. Yeah.
Interviewer [00:28:50] Just some more of the change, doesn’t it?
Florence Sutowski [00:28:52] Oh, yeah. And then on West 14th, like, you know, beginning the stores going that way. The one, I guess the sculptor has her studio there. That was our West 14th Street drugstore for years and years and years. Yeah.
Interviewer [00:29:08] Well, thank you.
Florence Sutowski [00:29:09] Sure. Would you care for some Pepsi?
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