Abstract
Taras Szmagala was born to Ukrainian immigrant parents. His father was very involved in the Ukrainian immigrant community. Szmagala followed in his father's footsteps by taking a leadership role in the community. He highlights the strength of the Ukrainian community in Cleveland, the centrality of the church within the community, the migration of Ukrainians to the suburbs, and the importance of being part of the Ukrainian community, and how it has aided in his life successes.
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Interviewee
Szmagala, Taras (interviewee)
Interviewer
Glonti, Ellen (interviewer)
Project
Project Team
Date
3-3-2011
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
78 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Taras Szmagala interview, 03 March 2011" (2011). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 999081.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1018
Transcript
Transcription sponsored by Taras Szmagala, Jr., in memory of Taras Szmagala, Sr.
Taras Szmagala [00:00:00] Sure. My name is Taras Szmagala Sr. I live at 10976 Tanager Trail in Brecksville, Ohio. And today’s date is March 3rd of 2011.
Ellen Glonti [00:00:19] Could you just tell me about your childhood memories? Where did you- How did you come to the U.S., if you ever did, or you were born here?
Taras Szmagala [00:00:30] Okay. Yeah. Let me give you a little bit of a family background. My father immigrated to the United States in 1913, came from a village in Ukraine with some fellow young people. He was 16 years old, okay, at the time, and they came directly to Cleveland. There was no work in Cleveland. If you want this kind of a background, I think it’s important, okay? There was no work in Cleveland at the time. And so he heard that there was work at the coal mine in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. So he went there and didn’t have a place to stay. So his first night, he slept outside, went to the mine, met the boss, who was a German man and of German background, and repeated the few words of English that he knew, which were, please, boss, job, and the job the boss put him on with an Italian who was, I think, a little bigger in size. And they worked together in the mine for almost a year. Then he kept in contact with his friends here in Cleveland, came back to Cleveland, met my mother, and they were married- I think it was probably around 1915 or so. He was very- And I think it’s important to put it in proper context. My father was very active in the Ukrainian community, okay? The Ukrainian community was here, basically in the Tremont area or around, wherever there were jobs. Of course, if you were in the mill, you know, you probably lived in Tremont. My father was not a man of large stature. He was probably 5’7" or thereabouts and weighed 100 and- at that age, probably weighed 140, 150 pounds, okay? So he wasn’t, you know, and he was kind of a more of an entrepreneurial, so he had jobs in the mill and did all those things. But after they were married, he finally decided to do something more on his own. And so at one point, Mom and Dad had a little restaurant right across the way, right here in Lincoln Park in Tremont. That, it flourished and they were doing well. And then Prohibition came along, okay? [laughs] And as I understand it, as the story was told, my father was willing to do a little bit on the side, but my mother absolutely refused to do anything wrong, okay? And so they got out of the business, okay, ond sold it to others.
Ellen Glonti [00:04:45] When was that? When did they go?
Taras Szmagala [00:04:46] Well, whenever Prohibition started, the date doesn’t- I just don’t recall it at the time, but I’m just kind of articulating stories that were told to me, okay? Obviously, he then did eventually become a minority partner in a window-cleaning business, Prospect Window Cleaning. It was window cleaning and janitor service. And he became the supervisor of the janitor service. He was a minority stockholder. I think he had 10% of the business. But what he did do was recruit women to go to the various places that they cleaned, okay? And he would supervise that and he would do the hiring and so on and so forth. And in the process, he would communicate with them. So he, you know, he knew Polish and Slovak and obviously Ukrainian, okay, all on a limited basis, but he was able to communicate with all of these. So that- Let’s get back to his activity in the Ukrainian community. The Ukrainian community here in those days- I’ll give you some background on that. In the first wave. And it’s kind of getting into the- And then we can- We’ll talk about my childhood. But let’s talk about the first- Let’s talk about the first wave right now with which he was part of, obviously. America at that time- And probably now when you have immigrants, they tend to stick together. They tend to- And the reason for that, obviously, is they have friends in the community. They can communicate. Again, we get into the language, per se, and they generally belong to the same church and so on and so forth. And the church at that time and continues to be kind of the basis for community per se. The Ukrainian church here was- The Ukrainian Catholic Church here was founded in 1910, and it’s right down the street on West 7th Street, St. Peter and Paul. And they celebrated- We celebrated the hundredth anniversary last year, okay? And so especially the first wave that were still around. And it was really the church that existed when the second wave came and then the third wave following World War II in the late ’40s and early ’50s, okay? It was, you know, very, very well attended. And, you know, and I have some memories from that that I’ll discuss when we get to that part. But getting back to, as I remember being told and in conversations with my father and others of what went on here at that time. Being together, in addition to the church, there was, first of all, the establishment of an insurance company, a fraternal insurance company. And life was a bit different then as far as safety was concerned, as far as how long people lived. And, you know, it was very simply when someone in the community died, there’d be some money there to give them a proper burial, per se.
Ellen Glonti [00:09:42] And how did they work? How did that work? Did they just put the money kind together?
Taras Szmagala [00:09:46] No, what happened was on a national basis, okay, there were several companies started. The major one was the Ukrainian National Association, okay, which was founded, I believe, in 1896.
Ellen Glonti [00:10:11] Is it the same as the Ukrainian National Home or that’s different.
Taras Szmagala [00:10:15] No, that’s different. That’s totally different. So this was a national organization, okay? At that time, it was headquartered in New Jersey and it continues to be, I think, headquartered. It was started in Pennsylvania, okay? And where there were a lot of Ukrainians in the coal mines, okay, and it branched out to different communities. The branch here in Cleveland, the first branch was St. Peter and Paul. It was around the church. And it’s also celebrated its hundredth anniversary, okay? Still in existence, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:11:13] This is the church-
Taras Szmagala [00:11:14] No, this is St. Peter and Paul branch of Ukrainian National Association, okay? So we’re talking about the Ukrainian National Association. And then different branches were formed. But it was at that time a fraternal, and not just an insurance company, but it also was a fraternal group in the sense that they would meet periodically. They might meet once a month on Sunday to pay their dues, and that was probably contributing 25 or 50 cents a month into the fund and so on and so forth. And then that was sent to New Jersey and policies were issued and when you had a death and so on and so forth. And the museum here has significant records from those times of what went on there. And you can see what was the cause of death of so many of these people. Industrial accidents, coal mine accidents.
Ellen Glonti [00:12:42] Did they work in the steel factory in Cleveland or basically what was their occupation in Cleveland?
Taras Szmagala [00:12:50] In Cleveland, yeah, I would imagine the steel mill was a major occupation, and there were other manufacturing, basically manufacturing jobs at that they did. Now, again, there was a need for services for the community. So what happened at that time is that you had co-ops that were formed. You had a bakery, a Ukrainian bakery, a Ukrainian milk company, a Ukrainian financial institution, okay? And these were all really community businesses. And most all of them, although they were cooperative in nature, did have financial backing that was gained in the community. And so you really had shareholders, okay? And that extended even to community. Right here around the corner on West 14th Street, you had the Ukrainian National Home, which was at one point a library, okay, or an art museum, rather, and it was purchased by the community, but it became really a stock company. So that there were- They went out and they asked people to contribute money, and in the process they were issued stock for that particular institution, whether that was a National Home or that was the dairy or the bakery or the financial institution, okay? That was always- That always required some sort of a financial contribution or purchase of a stock to be part of that, you know, part of that operation, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:15:28] And you say it was not expensive for them. It was kind of-
Taras Szmagala [00:15:31] Well, I mean, people- That’s where they invested their money, okay? It was mutual help. And it was- You know, that was- You know, at the same time, while this was going on, there was still that feeling that Ukraine needed help. I mean, there were- In the ’20s, there were drives to raise money for Україна [Ukraine], okay? And, you know, and so you had that kind of bonds that people purchased to support what was happening over there, and so on and so forth, okay? So that the ties there were still considered close. And that first wave, kind of- And then after the First World War, then you had another wave, kind of the second wave that came over and built on what had been started by the first wave, okay? Getting back to that first wave again, I think I’ve kind of outlined what the major institutions were. I mean, you had the national insurance, Ukrainian National Association. You had the- Here in Cleveland, you had the bank, the bakery, the dairy, and eventually the National Home, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:17:34] Which was the library.
Taras Szmagala [00:17:36] Well, that was the former- That was the former art museum, okay, that is there and was turned into basically a place where you had large meetings, plays, musical events, weddings, okay, so on and so forth, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:18:06] It doesn’t exist anymore.
Taras Szmagala [00:18:08] No, it doesn’t. It was, as I said, it was a company where- I don’t think the term company is proper. It was an institution that was run by a board of stockholders, okay? And when they- I can remember, must have been my tenth or eleventh year, where for a Christmas present, I got a share of the National Home, okay? [laughs] So that was a way of saying, you’re now part of this and you can vote your share at the annual meeting and so on and so forth, okay? Yeah, that was- That was sold. I’m trying to- Probably in the late ’50s, I would guess. And again, for the exact dates and everything, you know, I think we can-
Ellen Glonti [00:19:37] Is there a particular reason why it was sold or just-
Taras Szmagala [00:19:41] Well, yeah, that’s a good question. The community was expanding. You had the third-wave immigration coming in. Things were moving out to Parma.
Ellen Glonti [00:20:03] Can you talk to me about that? Why did people move out of Tremont and why they went to Parma? Was there any particular reason for it or just-
Taras Szmagala [00:20:13] Well, I knew this question was coming, so I gave it some thought. And there was a very important event that happened early on in the late ’20s, The church- My dad was president of the church council, and they were considering what needs they really had from a religious point of view. And one of them was a cemetery, okay? The major one was a cemetery. You know, where could we bury our Ukrainian and, you know, Ukrainian Rite Catholics, okay? I mean, you could go to the Catholic cemetery, but they preferred, you know, we’d like to have our own cemetery, okay? And so I remember a story my father tells me. The church was part of the Ukrainian Catholic Diocese, and at that point there was only one bishop, and he was in Philadelphia. He came to Cleveland for a visit and the subject of a cemetery was brought up, okay? At the time, and they asked for permission to go and start the cemetery. There was a dollar amount that supposedly every parish was supposed to contribute to the diocese. And our parish was saving this money to buy a cemetery. And the bishop said that you don’t have permission to start a cemetery until you pay your Peter’s pence. And my father walked out on him, okay? [laughs] And he-
Ellen Glonti [00:23:00] Do you know the name of the bishop?
Taras Szmagala [00:23:02] Yeah, his name was Bohachevsky, okay? And my father and the treasurer of the church and another gentleman whose name escapes me right now started to look for some land and found 33 acres in Parma, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:23:39] Cheaper there to buy land in Parma than in Tremont?
Taras Szmagala [00:23:43] Well, that’s- Well, of course, Tremont was filling up. Tremont, you didn’t have that kind of land. Or if you had the land in Tremont, it was around a steel mill or some industrial thing, okay? And so they were looking for- And yeah, and the other, you know, the other cemeteries around were going out into the suburbs.
Ellen Glonti [00:24:20] Are you talking about other ethnic neighborhoods?
Taras Szmagala [00:24:23] Well, I’m talking- Well, I really don’t- Again, I wouldn’t have a personal- But, you know, I know that the Catholic cemetery was out into, you know, into Brook Park. That was the original- You know, that was kind of out of the city limits and so on and so forth, okay? And yeah, there are several other ethnic cemeteries in the Parma area. Now, whether that entered into the equation, I really don’t know, but I do know that they purchased those 33 acres for $6,500.
Ellen Glonti [00:25:02] Any primary sources? Do you have any kind of primary sources? Any maybe documents?
Taras Szmagala [00:25:10] Yeah, we do. Yeah. And I’ll have to find that for you, but we do have that. And that land was purchased by three couples, individual couples.
Ellen Glonti [00:25:28] Can you tell me the names?
Taras Szmagala [00:25:29] Yeah. Well, there’s my parents. They were the Diachuns. Yeah. D, I, A, C, H, U, N. He, I believe, was the treasurer. And I really don’t have, off the top of my head, I really don’t have the third. This was all done with the understanding that this is where the cemetery was going to be, okay? But it was not zoned, you know, to become a cemetery, okay? And so as the story was related to me, they contacted a councilman in Parma. Explained to him what they wanted to do. And he said to them that I think we can probably do this. I don’t know what other considerations went on there, okay? [laughs] If there were any. But they waited for the first parishioner to die. And when that happened, they contacted this councilman, he put it on the agenda, and they rezoned that 33 acres to accommodate it being a cemetery, okay? And they buried that first parishioner. And I’d have to get, again, get you the year on that, okay? Exactly whether it was- It was around the late ’20s or early ’30s, okay? The other thing that happened there, which this is painful, but it’s history, was that the parish priest - his name was Father Merenkiw - was transferred. When the bishop found out that St. Peter and Paul had gone off and done something against his will, they transferred him to a small parish in Pennsylvania someplace. And he only lived there for less than a year and died. And I know my dad and Mr. Diachun got on a train, went to this Pennsylvania town, and picked up his body and brought it here. And he’s buried. He’s buried-
Ellen Glonti [00:28:35] That was around ’50s, you say?
Taras Szmagala [00:28:37] No, that was in the ’30s. Yeah.
Ellen Glonti [00:28:42] So that is, the cemetery actually was purchased in the ’30s.
Taras Szmagala [00:28:45] In the ’30s, yeah.
Ellen Glonti [00:28:46] For 65,000.
Taras Szmagala [00:28:47] 6,500.
Ellen Glonti [00:28:48] 6,500? That’s much less, okay.
Taras Szmagala [00:28:54] 6,533 acres for $6,500, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:28:58] So actually, the cemetery was there in the ’30s. But why did the parish start moving out in the ’50s?
Taras Szmagala [00:29:04] Well, what happened was that you had, first of all, you had a Depression with people out of work, okay? And so the parish decided that they should take advantage of all of the people who were not working and could volunteer to work and build that 33 acres. They hired a contractor, a Ukrainian contractor by the name of Mural, Mural & Son still exists, okay? And they built a road and they built a pavilion, okay? And they turned over part of that land into a picnic grove, okay? So that on Sundays, okay, during the summer, that was the place that the community met. And if you, you know, if you were fortunate enough to have an automobile or something, that’s one thing, but the other thing is that you would have buses going from Tremont out to Parma, okay, to the picnic grove, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:30:51] Those were streetcars?
Taras Szmagala [00:30:53] There were streetcars, but they did not go out that far at all. They didn’t go out that far, okay, because that was way south, okay, at this point. Well, you know, that’s a good question. I wonder whether there was any public transportation that took you out to a certain point. Because, you know, when I say they didn’t go out that far, you had streetcars that, at that point that went out to Akron from Cleveland. You know.
Ellen Glonti [00:31:31] Do you remember using the streetcar some?
Taras Szmagala [00:31:34] Oh, yeah, I went to school on a streetcar, okay? I mean, that’s how I went to school. And when I lived in the Collingwood area, it was, 2 cents was the fare. And that’s how I traveled to elementary school. That’s how I, you know, on Sundays I would, in my early teens, would go to a movie.
Ellen Glonti [00:32:08] To downtown?
Taras Szmagala [00:32:09] No, you had- We lived at 173rd, Office St. Clair, which is pretty far out at that time when I was growing up. But you had movies at 105th Street. So I could take a streetcar from 173rd and go to 105th Street for 2 cents. And there was a recreation area there, okay, movie and so on and so forth, okay, so that, you know, that was kind of standard stuff.
Ellen Glonti [00:32:44] Could you tell me about your childhood memories more, you know, how was it? Was it a particular- Did you have a particular feeling of belonging to the Ukrainian community? Did it make any difference? I mean, did you interact with other ethnic communities in Tremont?
Taras Szmagala [00:33:02] Yeah, my. Well, first of all, obviously the son of a very active person in the community. So that, you know, that was just part of growing up. I mean, I was just being Ukrainian and attending all of the events and so on and so forth. My first memory of an event was the dedication of the Cultural Gardens. And that was in the late ’30s. And my father was a member of that committee. I’m not sure what office he held. He was not the chairman, but he was a member. And I can remember wearing an all white suit, white shoes, and being in a parade marching down under this bridge to the Cultural Gardens. I look back, that was one of my first- It was a big event. I was, what, four or five years old at that time, okay? And, you know, so those things were important, okay? I can remember, although I had very little formal education in the language. The language was spoken at home. My sisters, as a matter of fact, my sisters, my older sister, who just passed last year, well into her 90s, when she went to elementary school, they did not speak English. She spoke only Ukrainian. No, I, you know, by the time I was, see, I was, I was the late-in-life son, okay? They had two daughters, okay? [laughs] But, you know, so I was 13 years younger than my younger sister, 16 years younger than my older sister, okay? So that was kind of my stature in the family. And of course, the bright light of my father who, you know, finally had a son, okay? [laughs]
Ellen Glonti [00:35:47] Very proud.
Taras Szmagala [00:35:48] Oh, you know, that was, you know. So when they, you know, when they- I have a picture of when they dedicated the cemetery of my- I was a baby, I don’t know, two, three years old, sitting on his lap, okay? Kind of thing. [laughs] So we have, we have that picture here. All right. So, you know, childhood memories, okay? It just was always just part of my life.
Ellen Glonti [00:36:21] The community, you mean?
Taras Szmagala [00:36:22] Yeah, yeah. The community was just a part of my life. And, and America was different then. Maybe it isn’t, but you know, from- You know, I was the guy with the Z in his name who was Ukrainian. And not many people, you know, really knew what Ukraine was. All right? You know, there was Germany and France and, you know, all of that kind of stuff, but Ukraine, okay. And all that. And by that time, you know, the Soviet Union was flourishing and, you know, you just didn’t talk about Ukraine and that kind of thing. So that was a, that was a huge issue, okay? And that was a huge motivating force in the community is to, again, gain that independence, gain that.
Ellen Glonti [00:37:27] from the Soviet Union.
Taras Szmagala [00:37:28] From the Soviet Union, the recognition of Ukraine as a free and independent nation that had its own language and so on, the culture and so on. So when I think of Ukrainian and what impact it had on me, I can give you several, you know, this is part of kind of my oral history, but I think it ties into what- And I don’t think I’m unique in this regard, okay? I was the first person to go to college in the family, and there was never a doubt that I was going to college, okay? There was never- That was, okay? [laughs] That was not, you know. Where do I go to college? Well, that’s another story, okay? You know, my father didn’t have any suggestions. [laughs]
Ellen Glonti [00:38:46] Did he speak English?
Taras Szmagala [00:38:49] Oh, absolutely.
Ellen Glonti [00:38:50] He did?
Taras Szmagala [00:38:51] Absolutely, he spoke English. My mother would read the paper from the daily- We had two papers. We had an afternoon paper and a morning paper. And she would read the paper from cover to cover and she taught herself, basically, worked on that herself to be, okay, so. Oh yeah, he was, yeah, he spoke impeccable English with an accent, okay? But that, that’s, you know, he.
Ellen Glonti [00:39:29] But he had to learn it in the U.S.?
Taras Szmagala [00:39:30] [crosstalk] Oh yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, that’s how you survive. And you know, how do you survive, you know, as an entrepreneur or, you know, or in the community? I mean, he, you know, he was-
Ellen Glonti [00:39:41] He spoke actually Ukrainian in the family.
Taras Szmagala [00:39:44] When you walked into that house, it was Ukrainian, okay? [laughs] But when you walked out of the house, you know-
Ellen Glonti [00:39:52] It was American.
Taras Szmagala [00:39:53] It was American, okay? So that, you know, that’s just kind of the way it was. So. And as I said, so I was going to go to college and the question is, where would I go? My sister- This is kind of an interesting story. My sister lost her husband in war, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:40:27] In the Second World War?
Taras Szmagala [00:40:28] In the Second World War. She married, she married him before- In the early ’40s, he was called up and he died at Normandy. He was a half-track operator. And for years, well, it would seem like years, it- She finally heard that he was missing in action. And so I can remember spending nights with her listening to the long-range radio - the foreign radio where they would give names of prisoners of war - and waiting to hear what happened to him. And we finally got the message that he was killed and he was brought over here. And he’s buried in the Ukrainian cemetery.
Ellen Glonti [00:41:42] Oh, in Parma.
Taras Szmagala [00:41:43] In Parma. And in that cemetery there is a memorial in the center of the cemetery for everyone who served in that war, okay? And those have- And then we lost quite a few.
Ellen Glonti [00:42:00] Is the cemetery still in use now?
Taras Szmagala [00:42:02] Oh yeah.
Ellen Glonti [00:42:03] It is?
Taras Szmagala [00:42:04] Oh yeah, yeah. And yeah, it’s- Yeah, it’s still in use. It will continue to be in use. There’s a mausoleum now where you can, you know, and they just open new sections and it will continue.
Ellen Glonti [00:42:21] And how do you purchase that? The community gathers money for it, collects money?
Taras Szmagala [00:42:25] No, it’s now run by the church, okay? [laughs] It was eventually transferred to the church, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:42:31] And which church is that?
Taras Szmagala [00:42:34] That’s the Ukrainian Catholic. Well, actually it’s St. Peter and Paul Cemetery. The church is here in Tremont, okay, but, but all of the other- We have three other Catholic churches in town.
Ellen Glonti [00:42:52] What are those? Can you tell me?
Taras Szmagala [00:42:53] Yeah, St. Josaphat’s which is the first-
Ellen Glonti [00:42:58] I thought that one- I’m sorry to interrupt you. Is it in Parma?
Taras Szmagala [00:43:02] That’s in Parma. All three of them are in Parma. [laughs]
Ellen Glonti [00:43:06] So, St. Josaphat is in Parma. St. Peter and Paul is in Tremont.
Taras Szmagala [00:43:10] Peter and Paul is in Tremont. St. Josaphat’s in Parma. St. Andrew’s is a church that was built on the 33 acres, okay? [laughs] So, all right. And that was built 44 years ago. And then St. Pokrova is an old-calendar church that was, that is now being- There’s a new church being built there at this point. They’ve practiced there in a facility that was a hall and other facilities, but they had a small area that was the church. And now the fourth wave has really started to support this old-calendar church, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:44:36] The fourth wave is-
Taras Szmagala [00:44:38] The fourth wave started in the ’90s, maybe late ’80s. It was the result of a bill that was passed to allow people in the Soviet sector that were religiously persecuted. And this was basically passed for the Jewish community, but the Ukrainians also participated in that. And that’s what started the immigration from Ukraine to the United States, okay? And it’s a significant immigration, okay? Still very active in the community. If you walked into the Ukrainian Credit Union in Parma right now.
Ellen Glonti [00:45:53] I’ve never been there. That’s a bank, I guess.
Taras Szmagala [00:45:56] It’s a bank, it’s a credit union. But it’s, you know, it’s where- And that’s the first place that the new fourth wavers went because, you know, you look for the support and so on and so forth. You might hear more Russian on a Saturday than you do Ukrainian, okay? [laughs] Which is, you know, that’s, that’s fine.
Ellen Glonti [00:46:22] Actually, Ukrainians do not like to talk to Russians.
Taras Szmagala [00:46:25] Well, no, they don’t, but, you know, it is what it is. And what’s important with the fourth wave is that they recognize that they’re Ukrainian, okay? And, you know, in my opinion, I think that, you know, the Ukrainian will come and, you know, will- The school children- I mean, it’s, it’s all changing. All right? But if you were brought up, you know, speaking Russian, then that was a, you know, that’s the language you feel comfortable with, okay? And I understand that, okay? And that’s, it’s going to, the whole language thing is going to take a while. All right? It’s going to take a while.
Ellen Glonti [00:47:14] Can you tell me about the parish schools that they had in the ’50s?
Taras Szmagala [00:47:18] Oh, yeah.
Ellen Glonti [00:47:19] I guess that was pretty important.
Taras Szmagala [00:47:22] Yeah. Well, again, the church decided in, you know, in the late ’40s that, you know, we needed to start a school because we had all of, you know, and again, date wise, you know, it might have been early ’50s, but that the first thing we needed to do is to build a school.
Ellen Glonti [00:47:52] The first school was established in the ’40s, you’re saying?
Taras Szmagala [00:47:55] Well, it might have been late ’40s or early ’50s. Again on the dates, something-
Ellen Glonti [00:47:58] And it was which church? I mean, like,
Taras Szmagala [00:48:00] It was St. Peter and Paul.
Ellen Glonti [00:48:01] St. Peter and Paul. Okay.
Taras Szmagala [00:48:02] Okay. And they bought the land in Parma, okay? The cemetery was already there, all right? And built a school which has continued to be in existence until last year when, you know, it finally closed down, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:48:27] Any particular reason for that?
Taras Szmagala [00:48:28] Well, yeah, it’s a combination of the- When the school opened, I would guess that 50% of the students walked to school, okay? They finally purchased a school bus, one bus, that used to go around and pick up students. And the interesting story there was that the driver of that first school bus was the assistant here at St. Peter and Paul by the name of Lubachivsky. And Father Lubachivsky became a cardinal in the [Ukrainian] Catholic Church, okay, eventually. He was a very learned man. He was the one that married my wife and I at St. Peter and Paul. And he drove the school bus, okay? [laughs] Back then, all right, people started to move away. You have the tuition and the cost of education just started a spiral. It was a combination of economics and the community moving away or branching out into Parma. That third wave that came in after the Second World War bought their homes in Parma, the old timers are still there, but their kids are in North Royalton and Brecksville. [laughs]
Ellen Glonti [00:50:46] Another good point you are talking about. Can I just give any kind of idea why they do so, why they move out from Parma? Any particular reason for that?
Taras Szmagala [00:50:57] Well, you know, it’s the, you know- Whether it’s right or wrong, economically, their parents might have been college professors but never practiced their trade because they didn’t have the language, okay? They came in, okay? And that third wave was a very, very educated community, contrary to, you know, to my father, who, you know, had a third grade education. Chances are that- And I’m just pulling numbers off, but that the 30 or 40% of that third wave had at least a high school education, if not higher.
Ellen Glonti [00:52:08] That education was actually received in Ukraine.
Taras Szmagala [00:52:12] Right, right. So now, whereas I’m the first person from my first generation family, first-wave family, to go to college. You know, the kids now are, you know- [laughs]
Ellen Glonti [00:52:32] Right. You’re going to go to college.
Taras Szmagala [00:52:34] You’re going to go to college, okay? This is your opportunity to enjoy the American dream, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:52:42] So that’s the reason is that they didn’t like Parma anymore?
Taras Szmagala [00:52:47] Well, you know, I can go a little more upscale, okay? I can, you know, Royalton is close. I’m still close to, you know, to church. And, you know, I live in Brecksville, okay? It’s just- I lived in Parma from the time we were married until - in the ’50s - until, you know, until the ’70s and then.
Ellen Glonti [00:53:14] And what was the reason you moved out? If it’s not too personal, you know-
Taras Szmagala [00:53:19] No, no, no, no. It’s not personal at all. In 1970, I- We haven’t talked about my background at all, but I went from being a school principal to administrative assistant for a United States senator. In 1972, I ran the ethnic campaign for Richard Nixon’s campaign in Washington, D.C, okay? And I came back from Washington still on the senator staff, and had accumulated a few dollars and started to think about a home out in the country someplace or whatever, to get away on weekends and so on, because Parma, you know, again, you know, at that time, Parma was over 100,000 people. All right? [laughs] You know, it’s now down around 60 or 70 or whatever, all right? I mean, it was, you know.
Ellen Glonti [00:54:58] And what particular- I’m sorry. Where was your house? What street was it?
Taras Szmagala [00:55:01] My house was on Selwick Drive, which is very close to Parmatown. I built it- I had it built while- You know, we moved in right after we were married, okay? Kind of thing on money that I’d accumulated working in the mill, okay? That’s a whole ’nother story, but I want to tell you that-
Ellen Glonti [00:55:29] Oh, we’ll talk about that.
Taras Szmagala [00:55:33] But. And so I started, you know, I started to look, I said, well, you know, maybe we can move away from, you know, from the city. And Parma was a city, okay? And it was- You know, and I found this lot in Brecksville on the national park, okay? And I thought, gee, this would be a really great place to, you know, it’s solitude, okay? It’s- You know.
Ellen Glonti [00:55:59] So you didn’t want actually to stay in the city. You wanted to be kind of out of it?
Taras Szmagala [00:56:02] Yeah, yeah.
Ellen Glonti [00:56:03] That was one of the reasons.
Taras Szmagala [00:56:04] Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I wanted to stay. That wasn’t- You know, I just wanted to settle down. Because I was able to, I wanted to settle down in some place where I could get up in the morning and I wouldn’t worry about the traffic and everything else, okay? And I find this little bit of beauty that I hope to, you know, I hope the good Lord allows me to die there, okay? So that’s-
Ellen Glonti [00:56:32] So you sold your house in Parma and bought it?
Taras Szmagala [00:56:36] I had it built, as a matter of fact. Yeah. Yeah, okay?
Ellen Glonti [00:56:40] But your children were already grown up. Where do your children live now?
Taras Szmagala [00:56:43] No, my children were not grown up when we moved. We’ve only been blessed with one child, okay? And he was born, I think, eight or nine years after we were married, okay? We’ll go into all of that. But anyway, we were blessed with one. And when we moved to Brecksville- Well, he started school in Washington, because when we moved in ’72- He was born in ’66, so he was, you know, five years old when we moved into Washington, D.C., and we were only there for six, seven, eight months, okay? But he started school in Bethesda, Maryland, and then went to- And when we came back, he went to Parma schools.
Ellen Glonti [00:57:58] Was it a parish school?
Taras Szmagala [00:59:00] No, no, Parma schools. He didn’t- Yeah, no, he didn’t go- He didn’t go to Josaphat’s, okay? He didn’t. So he went to the Parma schools, and we moved to Brecksville in ’74. So now he’s, you know, he’s still in elementary school. Went to the Breckfield schools through the junior high, and then he went to St. Ignatius, okay? University of Virginia, undergraduate in law, Squire, Sanders. And he’s now an executive vice president of the Eaton Corporation, law department. So, you know, we’ve been blessed in that sense. And this is another, because it really ties into what we’re talking about, he had reached a point. He worked for Squires, then he went to work for Avery Denison, and I can remember him sitting with him on a birthday talking about the fact that his company, Avery Denison, was thinking of opening an office in Moscow, and they were asking him to consider moving out there, after he had already turned down going out to California, okay? So when he got the interview at Eaton, and it was a blessing because here was a very talented, bright, young individual who finally found a home in Cleveland so that he could stay with his family, okay? And the family is more than just his mother and father. The family is- I mean, he’s active here in the museum, okay? He’s active in the community. Yeah, I mean, he’s hosting at his home in Bentleyville in three weeks, a meeting, a fundraiser for the Ukrainian Catholic University in Ukraine. He spent two and a half years in the Kiev office of Squire, Sanders & Dempsey.
Ellen Glonti [01:00:22] He’s blessed, it seems like.
Taras Szmagala [01:00:22] Yeah. And he went back to diplomatic language school to learn the language. He speaks better than I do, okay? S[laughs] o. Yeah.
Ellen Glonti [01:00:31] So he’s really active in the community.
Taras Szmagala [01:00:32] Yeah, he’s active. He will continue to be active in the community.
Ellen Glonti [01:00:36] That’s important. It seems like Ukrainian community has this strong feeling of community. Like, I guess stronger, maybe it’s just my opinion, and I’m just wondering what you think about it, stronger than the Polish community or, I mean, like, kind of Ukrainian is very strong. They keep their identity all the time. The traditions, you know, if you could talk about the tradition that you have, you know, food or, you know.
Taras Szmagala [01:00:59] Well, yeah, it’s- Well, it really started, you know, it really started out as I said, you know, what is- Well, what are you? I’m Ukrainian. Well, what’s Ukrainian, okay? I mean, that goes back and 1991 changed some of that. Changed a lot of it, okay? But that still has been, you know, still has been there. And there is, you know, it’s a strong community that has stayed together, okay, basically stayed together, and has established institutions like this, okay? Like here’s your Ukrainian Museum, all right? So, yeah, the Poles have been here longer maybe, but, you know, there’s- They, you know, they still stick with the food and, you know, but they don’t-
Ellen Glonti [01:02:16] I was going to ask you what about the food? You know, I guess there are still a lot of Ukrainian restaurants and Ukrainian stores in Parma and I don’t know- [inaudible] -traditions with food?
Taras Szmagala [01:02:25] Well, yeah, yeah, that’s important. We have- Now that I’ve entered an age where retirement and we have a group of people basically in their 70s that have retired. And I’m talking about doctors and lawyers and business people and so on and so forth. And, you know, we’ve got a wine club and a stock club. And the newest thing is periodically, you know, maybe once, maybe once every month or once every two months, we’ll go to a Ukrainian restaurant in Parma called Nikki’s[?] and she will cook us a Saturday night meal which will be, you know, varenyky and potato pancakes and [inaudible], [laughs] and, you know, all that good stuff.
Ellen Glonti [01:03:45] What about in the family, do you cook it still?
Taras Szmagala [01:03:48] Yeah, my wife occasionally, but it’s a chore, will make holubsi, because that was one of the things in my contract, okay? [laughs] This is something- If you learn to make anything, you’ve got better learn to make holubsi because this is one of my favorite foods, okay? Kind of thing. So that still goes on. The traditional meals are still very important and they’re carried on by. By families. There’s just no question about it. Some of that, of course, is church-oriented, where you have the Christmas meal and the Easter meals and so on and so forth, okay? But yeah, food’s always important. And, you know, for immigrants, food is a lot more important than it is for folks that, you know, [laughs] have been here for 50 years or 100 years. And so, you know, it’s. And the food for those folks becomes important as to, you know, what five-star restaurant can they go to, okay? [laughs] Only in America. All right, that’s-
Ellen Glonti [01:04:59] I have a question actually about the religion and then we can talk about what you would like to add to what we’ve talked about.
Taras Szmagala [01:05:04] Okay.
Ellen Glonti [01:05:05] This question personally interests me because I’m not quite understanding. I thought that the Ukrainians are Orthodox, but it seems like there is a big community of Catholics and how did it divide? Or I mean, when did it divide, if you can talk about that?
Taras Szmagala [01:05:20] Well, no, there is a Ukrainian Catholic Church which is part of the Catholic Church. Now we have to go into dates, and I’m not picking up dates very well, but whether it was 1512 or something. And Andy can probably give you these better than, you know, I’m just not remembering as quickly as I used to. But the church is a part of the Catholic Church, have our own liturgy, have had our own calendar, which was basically the Orthodox calendar, but the Catholic Church here in America took on the Roman calendar, okay? And when I talked about the fourth wave going to the old-calendar church, that’s been kind of a schism. But that’s within the Catholic Church. It’s not, okay? So that’s, you know. But primarily the first immigration to the States was from western Ukraine and western Ukraine is where you had the Ukrainian Catholic Church.
Ellen Glonti [01:07:24] Okay. So what you’re saying, actually most of the immigrants are from the western Ukraine, more or less.
Taras Szmagala [01:07:29] Most of the original immigrants, the first wave immigrant.
Ellen Glonti [01:07:34] Okay, what’s why the traditional-
Taras Szmagala [01:07:36] That’s why the traditional. Okay, okay. There was- Several things happened. There was a breakaway here in the United States, and here in Tremont, where people broke from- And this was the result of the calendar in part, but more over some of the traditions that were changed because the church, the Catholic Church in America became more Romanized, okay? And so some of the community wanted to retain some of the traditions and they didn’t want these changes. And so they broke away and became Orthodox. And St. Vladimir’s Orthodox Church was founded and the first church was built here in Tremont, okay? But these were basically Catholics that, okay? And understand, when the immigrants came here to the States, let’s say they came here to Tremont, okay? You had the Saint Theodosius, which was founded and paid for by the czar, where you could go to church for free. But if you went to St. Peter and Paul, you had to contribute, okay? And when you were a new immigrant, okay, I want to go to church, but I just don’t have that 25 cents, okay, to throw in the basket. All right?
Ellen Glonti [01:09:45] Is the community still- I mean, do they interact between the Orthodox and Catholics is still the same community? Or it’s kind of divided?
Taras Szmagala [01:09:53] No, we’ve become closer and closer through the years. As a matter of fact, there was just a synod of bishops, of Catholic bishops and Orthodox bishops, Ukrainian, okay? And there is talk about how we can get closer and perhaps eventually unify. Okay, so that is in the works. There’s no question about that. But things, religion, that involve religion don’t happen overnight.
Ellen Glonti [01:10:24] Is there anything you would like to add? You know, you were going to talk about your college background or anything else you would like to add to the question that we talked about?
Taras Szmagala [01:10:34] Well, it has, you know, it has to do with being Ukrainian, or for that matter being ethnic and living in America, okay? I had two experiences that impacted my life. When I graduated from Allegheny College with a degree in Chemistry and Economics, I went to work in the mill because that’s where guys with funny names went to work, okay, all right? [laughs] That’s where my brother-in-law who had suggested I go to Allegheny College, he had gone to Thiel and he was a metallurgical engineer. So I ended up running a blast furnace in the valley here, okay? And all of a sudden they decided that they were going to close down my plant. So I- And it was United States Steel Corporation. I was offered a position in Duluth, Minnesota, okay? Now here’s a Ukrainian kid, active in the community, all right, feeling very much at home here. And I’m thinking, do I want to go to Duluth, Minnesota? All right, there has to be other things in life, okay, than to make a living than, you know, working, working, working. [crosstalk] Right. Working, working in the steel mill. Okay, so let’s look at the options, okay? So in the process of looking at options, and this is 19, put it in perspective. This is 1960, ’61, ’62, okay? I start looking for a job, okay? I’m still working in the mill, it’s still operating. But I’ve announced that I’m going to go out on the open market and see. So I go to Texas Instruments in Providence, Rhode Island. And at the time, and it probably still the same, you had industrial psychologists. So when you interviewed for a job, you know, you’d eventually end up with this, you know, semi-shrink who would ask you, give you tests and so on and so forth and then, you know, then ask you questions, okay? So I had gone through the plant and the whole bit and the psychologist’s name was Brown. And I’ve taken all the tests and now I’m literally on the couch and he’s asking me questions and you know what? Tell me about yourself. And so I start talking about my activity in Ukrainian community. And all of a sudden I see tears running down his cheeks and he stops me and he says, Understand you’re going to get the highest rating, you know, you have no problems. He said, but I’m Ukrainian. He said, and I had to change my name to do what I’m doing. And I’ve left the community and, you know, and what you’re telling me, you know, is very emotional kind of thing. And so, okay, you know, I thought about that, you know. So now, okay, I realized at that point how important this was to me, okay, as a human being. So now I’m being interviewed by a local Cleveland company who is in the business that I was in, Merchant Iron. And I remember when I got the call from the headhunter, I remember what he said to me. He said, I’m not sure I can get you in the door with that name. But he says, with your background, I’m sure they’ll talk to you. So now, and the company is Pickands Mather, okay, which is now this- They’ve changed their name since then. But a very, you know, I wish I had their stock because it’s been, you know, super. But the VP who’s making a job offer to me, okay, a very lucrative at that time job offer, said in passing, and of course you’ll change your name for business purposes. And I remember we were living in Parma. My wife was teaching. We didn’t have- We were childless, going to the football game, and I said, you know, I’m not going to do that, okay? That’s not what I am. And I went back to school and I got my teaching certificate. I got my master’s degree in Educational Administration. So I became a schoolteacher. I taught junior high science and eventually became junior high assistant principal and worked on superintendent staff and was active in politics. And part of my success in politics was that I represented something, okay? I represented the Ukrainian community, all right? And then I did that in Washington for the Republican Party. And so I just, I took advantage of my strength and it’s been fun. But it’s different now, okay? It’s different, you understand? It’s different. My son is with the same name. He’s a junior and you know, he’s a very high-ranking executive in a major, major Cleveland corporation, world corporation now, okay? So it’s changed, okay, but I’m just talking about what it was in the ’60s, okay?
Ellen Glonti [01:18:14] Okay, well, thank you very much.
Andrew Fedynsky [01:18:19] We were supposed to meet at 1, is that correct?
Ellen Glonti [01:18:22] I am leaving it. I have to leave it 10 to 1 because I have a class today. Are you busy today? You don’t have time?
Andrew Fedynsky [01:18:30] I thought you said it was at one. Did you say 11?
Ellen Glonti [01:18:33] I said 10 o’clock.
Taras Szmagala [01:18:36] Yeah, I’ve been- [crosstalk] Yeah, I’ve been- I’ve been- I’ve been here for an hour and a half.
Andrew Fedynsky[01:18:42] I have a lunch that I have to go to.
Ellen Glonti [01:18:43] Oh, I mean, would you like me to come another day?
Andrew Fedynsky [01:18:45] Could you?
Ellen Glonti [01:18:46] Oh, sure, no problem. But when is it convenient for you?
Andrew Fedynsky [01:18:48] Next week, perhaps?
Ellen Glonti [01:18:50] Okay. I mean, I’ll email you then-
Andrew Fedynsky [01:18:52] Okay.
Ellen Glonti [01:18:53] If you have time.
Taras Szmagala [01:18:53] You made- You make- If I don’t know that when- We need some of the dates that I couldn’t remember about when the Ukrainian Catholic Church was formed.
Andrew Fedynsky [01:19:08] in 1596.
Taras Szmagala [01:19:09] Okay. See, I told you. [crosstalk] What was 1512? 1512 was something, I think. No, okay. It wasn’t 1596.
Andrew Fedynsky [01:19:23] The union was 1596.
Ellen Glonti [01:19:25] You’ve been very, very helpful and I’m sure, I mean, that’ll be very wonderful.
Andrew Fedynsky [01:19:29] Are you leaving now?
Taras Szmagala [01:19:32] No.
Andrew Fedynsky [01:19:33] Because I’ll be back in about an hour.
Taras Szmagala [01:19:34] Yeah, that’s fine. We can. Yeah, I. I want to talk to you about- Yeah.
Andrew Fedynsky [01:19:38] Okay. Because I heard from [inaudible] yesterday.
Taras Szmagala [01:19:44] Oh, you did?
Andrew Fedynsky [01:19:45] Yeah, he called me.
Taras Szmagala [01:19:46] Okay.
Andrew Fedynsky [01:19:47] Wanted to know the status of the-
Taras Szmagala [01:19:48] Yeah, right, okay?
Andrew Fedynsky [01:19:50] So I told him. What’s the status of the expansion there?
Taras Szmagala [01:19:55] Yeah. Oh, I know, I know, I know.
Andrew Fedynsky [01:19:59] All right, I gotta go.
Taras Szmagala [01:20:00] Okay.
Andrew Fedynsky [01:20:01] But I’ll be back soon.
Ellen Glonti [01:20:01] Okay. Thank you very much. We’ll start again. If you could talk about the tradition in the ’50s, you know, in Tremont, in Parma, you know, how life was like.
Taras Szmagala [01:20:12] Sure. You know, again, in the ’50s, late ’40s, when the third wave started to come in, my father, who, by the way, took the family back to Ukraine in 1930 to make up with his mother, who disowned him because he left [laughs] and- But he was one of 12. He was number 9 of 12, one of the youngest boys. And so my grandfather was the town veterinarian. You know, no actual education, but if, you know, if a korova, if a cow, was being born, you know, he’s the guy they called, you know, kind of thing, and he had some acreage and so on and so forth, but the older brothers were going to get all of that, so my father decided to leave with his buddies and come back, and his mother just couldn’t- He felt so moved about that that he actually went and took the family back in 1930, my sisters and mother, and they were there for a couple of months, okay? And my son and I went back in ’91 and met the family for the first time. Still stay in contact, you know, continue to be-
Ellen Glonti [01:21:56] Do they live in Kiev?
Taras Szmagala [01:21:57] No, they live in [Velykyi Liubin], which is right off of- Right, you know, again, western Ukraine, it’s Lviv, okay? So there’s still contact there, you know. And you know, he’s traveled there more than I have, okay? As a matter of fact, he was in Germany making a presentation for Eaton and took a few more days and traveled back to the village to know, to Lviv to say hello to the family and so on and so forth. We still, you know, not major, but still make. Send some dollars over there, you know, to try to make things better, you know, for, you know, it’s not easy. No, it’s not. It’s not, it’s not. But okay. ’40s and ’50s. Again, where the cemetery was so important, it’s not a picnic grove, okay? And this is where everybody- In the late ’30s and all during the war there would be events there during the summer, all, all during the summer. So that was just kind of the center of the community. And with the immigration that became, again very, very important. The school now is being built, okay, and the children going there. And so Parma becomes kind of the center of what’s going on in the community per se. It also becomes, which kind of ties in, important from a political point of view, because when you have that many Ukrainians living in one place, okay, [laughs] people are always looking for voters, okay? So there is a- Several Ukrainians from my generation, okay, little older than I am, that were politically active there. One of them being a gentleman by the name of Andy Boyko. Andy was an attorney who was doing some work for the city. And there was an old-time city attorney that had hired him and he was working there who was running for office. He filed. There was an opponent that filed. And after the filing and after the filing date passed, the attorney died, the city attorney, the sitting city attorney. So the one person who had filed for this office was going to have no opposition. So Andy Boyko decided he was going to file as a write in candidate, okay. And that was one of the most interesting pieces of political, of Ohio political history because what the Ukrainian community did was hold classes on how you could go to the voting. First of all, how you register to vote, okay. And how you can go to the voting place and write in Boyko’s name, okay. And Boyko won that election on a write in election which is probably to this date was the most significant write in election in the history of Ohio, okay? And so he became the, you know, he became the, the city attorney. His son today, Andy has since path. His son today is a federal judge, okay, sitting in the court here in Cleveland,
Ellen Glonti [01:26:40] Do you know where they live? They don’t live in Parma? Did they live in Parma?
Taras Szmagala [01:26:48] They did live in Parma.
Ellen Glonti [01:26:51] Okay. And now you don’t know where are they?
Taras Szmagala [01:26:53] I think they live in Royalton, I think.
Ellen Glonti [01:26:56] Okay. So the places where basically the members of the community would move out of Parma already, that would be North Royalton, Brecksville-
Taras Szmagala [01:27:08] Strongsville, probably, okay? And, you know, and a lot of the people that lived in Cleveland are now living in Parma, you know, so that was just kind of [laughs] a natural progression, too.
Ellen Glonti [01:27:21] Okay, that is a different question.
Taras Szmagala [01:27:23] It is, yeah. Right.
Ellen Glonti [01:27:24] That’s also interesting.
Taras Szmagala [01:27:25] Yeah. Yeah.
Ellen Glonti [01:27:27] Okay.
Taras Szmagala [01:27:28] So, but again, you know, if you go to Parma, and certainly in the ’40s and ’50s, you had the local Ukrainian bar was Lysmaketha, and that’s where you met and you had the Ukrainian store. And today you still have the Ukrainian meat market and the Ukrainian stores, and that’s been now supported by the fourth wave. You have two Ukrainian credit unions out there that exist, you know, one of them a multi, multi-million-dollar operation. And it was always a time when you could go out and get a loan.
Ellen Glonti [01:28:25] So credit unions were established in Parma around what period? Can you recall that?
Taras Szmagala [01:28:31] Oh, that’s in the that’s in the late ’40s, early ’50s.
Ellen Glonti [01:28:37] Okay. That’s around that period.
Taras Szmagala [01:28:38] Right, right.
Ellen Glonti [01:28:40] And any Ukrainians left in Tremont now or most of the community has moved out?
Taras Szmagala [01:28:46] Well, yeah, there are a few, but not, you know, not many significantly changed the whole neighborhood.
Ellen Glonti [01:28:55] Has that significantly changed the whole neighborhood?
Taras Szmagala [01:28:57] Well, understand what Tremont was- I mean, one of the reasons you moved out of Tremont is because, first of all, I talked about the ’60s and, you know, when I worked in the mills, you know, in the late ’50s and early ’60s, okay, the pollution here was horrible.
Ellen Glonti [01:29:20] In the ’60s.
Taras Szmagala [01:29:21] Right. I mean, it was, you know, it was terrible. And so if you had problems down in the valley with a blast furnace or an open hearth, and actually the steel process itself has changed and is a lot cleaner than it used to be. Some of that was forced by EPA and the federal government and so on and so forth. But that was, you know, this was not a pleasant place to live. And then, you know, one of the best ways you can make money in Tremont is to get your house burned down, you know, collect the insurance. You know, I mean, that was terrible. I mean, it was horrible. You know, we survived here because of the fact that, of the activity of the community and so on and so forth. And actually, and I may have mentioned this to you before, we made a decision in the late ’90s that we were going to stay here. And that’s when we, you know, when we in Tremont, you know, they know, the community wanted us to move to Parma, okay? And, you know, we had some groups that said, you know, we have some money, you know, we could-
Ellen Glonti [01:30:51] You’re talking about the museum, right?
Taras Szmagala [01:30:52] I’m talking about the museum. Yeah.
Ellen Glonti [01:30:55] But why didn’t you move out?
Taras Szmagala [01:30:56] Because we felt that we had, you know- Well, first of all, that Tremont was changing, number one. And that if we were going to be successful in the Cleveland area, we had to be in Cleveland and we had to represent, you know, what we represented in Cleveland per se, and we got support because of that. I mean, we were supported by Cleveland Foundation to do our first annual. To do our first strategic study, that kind of thing. That never would have happened if we were in Parma, all right? And, you know, it’s just logic, okay, for us to stay here.
Ellen Glonti [01:31:42] Remember last time when I was here, we talked about that one of the reasons why actually the community started moving out was also the construction of I-71?
Taras Szmagala [01:31:52] Oh, yeah. Oh, no, that was terrible. I mean, that just tore the city- It tore this neighborhood apart, okay?
Ellen Glonti [01:31:59] And what was that effect? I mean, was the community, I mean, was it divided the community or it just was, had to get to the workplace and everything?
Taras Szmagala [01:32:08] Yeah. I mean, it just- Well, and the work in the workplace changed, too. I mean, you know, if you asked the question, where did the first generation go to work? Well, I would say the Cuyahoga Valley, the steel mills, the industrial places, and so on and so forth. Where did the third wave go to work? Ford Motors, okay? Or Chevy, okay? I mean, we had more Ukrainians working in the Ford engine plant than, you know. I mean, was that kind of thing. All right. It was just-
Ellen Glonti [01:32:55] Was it easier for them to use the I-71 to get to the workplace? In a way? You know, it maybe simplified it.
Taras Szmagala [01:33:02] Yeah, maybe.
Ellen Glonti [01:33:03] In a way.
Taras Szmagala [01:33:04] Yeah, in a way. Yeah.
Ellen Glonti [01:33:06] But, like, actually, it really affected the construction of I-71, didn’t it? In a positive or negative way or how would you evaluate that?
Taras Szmagala [01:33:18] I don’t know. I don’t think I’m qualified to, you know, to react to that, you know. Yeah. I’m not-
Ellen Glonti [01:33:28] Okay. That’s all right.
Taras Szmagala [01:33:29] I’m not sure. That decision was made with, like, a lot of other decisions have been made. Probably predicated more on who owned the land than-
Ellen Glonti [01:33:50] And one last question about Father Gresko. He’s the Catholic. He was the Catholic priest, I guess.
Taras Szmagala [01:33:57] Right.
Ellen Glonti [01:33:58] And when was his activity? In the ’50s and, like, was he active in the community? What would you say about him?
Taras Szmagala [01:34:07] He was the leader of the community, okay? He is the one who was the pastor of St. Peter and Paul in the ’40s and ’50s. And even, probably even in the late ’30s, okay? And again, I don’t know those exact years. Monsignor Gresko used to have Sunday meals with us. There was that kind of a relationship with my father and Monsignor Gresko. He was the one that decided we had to go to Parma and build the school, okay?
Ellen Glonti [01:34:08] So he established the school?
Taras Szmagala [01:34:10] Yeah. He was really the-
Ellen Glonti [01:35:13] At St. Josephat’s, right?
Taras Szmagala [01:35:13] At St. Josaphat’s, yeah, he was really the one that- I mean, he just saw what was happening here and what was happening there, and, you know, that was the way to go, okay?
Ellen Glonti [01:35:27] So he kind of tried to move the community out of Tremont to Parma?
Taras Szmagala [01:35:31] Well, no, he was just, you know, the community was growing. I mean, he was just trying to- If we were going to live out there, then that’s where the school should be, okay? He still came to church here until, you know, they built a chapel out there as part of the school.
Ellen Glonti [01:35:52] Now he was active there in Parma, right?
Taras Szmagala [01:35:55] Yeah. I wouldn’t, you know, the years, again, is something that ask Andy about, okay? Because he’d get the years straight. But I know that he was a very- He was a charismatic character, loved by the community. You know, the people that made the pierogies on Friday used to buy him a new car every two or three years, okay? [laughs] It was that kind of thing. All right. So.
Ellen Glonti [01:36:30] Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Szmagala.
Taras Szmagala [01:36:32] You’re welcome.
Ellen Glonti [01:36:34] And I guess we had very, very nice interview. I’m sure I can use it very well. So thank you very much-
Taras Szmagala [01:36:40] Well, I hope-
Ellen Glonti [01:36:41] For your time.
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