Abstract
Sandra Walker is a retired judge who lived in Glenville from her childhood up until her undergraduate college years. She worked at her parents' restaurants during her youth, and later became a nurse and judge in her adulthood. She lives in Shaker Hts. now.
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Interviewee
Walker, Sandra (interviewee)
Interviewer
Gabb, Julie (interviewer)
Project
Project Team
Date
2-15-2014
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
66 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Sandra Walker interview, 15 February 2014" (2014). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 999111.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1037
Transcript
Julie Gabb [00:00:01] Alright, this is an interview at Shaker Heights with Ms. Sandra Walker. Today is February 15, 2014, and this is part of Cleveland Historical with, and as well as Cleveland Voices. So we’re going to start off. You said that you moved to Glenville at the age of ten.
Sandra Walker [00:00:26] Yes.
Julie Gabb [00:00:26] Why did your family move to Glenville?
Sandra Walker [00:00:29] Basically, my parents originally from Atlanta, Georgia, and at the time, they felt that things were better up North as opposed to in Georgia. You probably know that Atlanta, Georgia, during that time, it was dealing with, dealing with segregation, and so my parents felt it would be better for them, for jobwise as well as education, to move here. Plus, we already had my- I had two aunts and an uncle and my grandmother were already currently here. Okay.
Julie Gabb [00:01:04] So with Glenville, did you pick Glenville over other neighborhoods with family here?
Sandra Walker [00:01:13] To be honest, I’m not really sure why my parents picked Glenville because of a situation where they came here first and they got a home and everything. And then during the summer, my grandparents brought us up here on the train to Cleveland. So really, we had no decision in deciding as to where we were going to live in the Cleveland area.
Julie Gabb [00:01:36] Okay. So with your moving to Glenville, was your family involved in the neighborhood in any way?
Sandra Walker [00:01:46] Yes. My. My mother, she was involved in that. She was like a den mother dealing with the Boy Scouts, and we also were involved in the various community sports and that my brothers, they were in the community football league and some of the other sports that were available in the community.
Julie Gabb [00:02:15] So what were some of the community sports that the community, that the community had.
Sandra Walker [00:02:22] From what I can basically remember, pretty much was the football that they pretty much it was the pee-wee football league. And that was something that, as I said, that my brothers were involved with, and we basically supported my brothers. And pretty much that’s how I got to learn to love football. It was a situation where, since I had to watch it, I might as well learn about it. And to this day, that’s why I love football. Basically getting started back then, as far as any other community I know my mom was. I know when we were in high school, my mom was involved with the school there in that she made the cheerleaders skirts and outfits. She was the one who basically designed and made the cheerleaders’ outfit for the Glenville high school students.
Julie Gabb [00:03:16] What did the cheerleader outfits look like back then? What levels was that?
Sandra Walker [00:03:21] Well, basically it was around, let’s see, I graduated Glenville in 68. I started there in the 9th grade, so probably about ’64. Back then. They were basically- They were like black and red, alternate pleats, pleated skirts. Since our school colors were black and red for the Tarblooder. So this color is skirts.
Julie Gabb [00:03:50] And what does the phrase Tarblooder mean?
Sandra Walker [00:03:53] I know everybody want to know what Tarblooder means. Basically - I think everybody asks about that - it’s basically just a man, and it just kind of signifies the Tarblooder. As I said, almost everybody want to know what that is. I know I did bring down one of my books from my yearbook and stuff, which has actually have pictures of the cheerleader skirts, as well as what we signify as being a Tarblooder
Julie Gabb [00:04:27] And so you were a supporter of Glenville football?
Sandra Walker [00:04:33] Yes, I went to the game, and I also was involved with the school in that I was a gym leader in that. I was involved to the point where I coordinated and led exercise classes as well as refereed various games, volleyball, basketball, different games at the school.
Julie Gabb [00:05:00] As a referee, did you ever encounter any sort of crazy events or hard calls or anything like that?
Sandra Walker [00:05:10] Not really, because it was more or less where we were just pretty much competing against ourselves. So it wasn’t like we were competing against another school. This was just, like, school type contest. So it really wasn’t that involved, you know, wasn’t really that heated.
Julie Gabb [00:05:32] And so you went to Glenville High School and you graduated in 1968?
Sandra Walker [00:05:36] Yes.
Julie Gabb [00:05:39] What do you recall from the high school during your years there?
Sandra Walker [00:05:43] Well, the first year I was, I attended the old Glenville, and then they, they were in the process of building the new Glenville. So I went to there for 9th grade to the old Glenville. Then we went to the new Glenville from the 10th grade, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. One thing I can say about Glenville was it was a very community-involved school in that there were a lot of activities, a lot of things that were going on in that we had. We were one of the few schools that had- We had, like, our own radio-type broadcast system going in that the student got experience dealing with that. We basically put on, like, Broadway plays. We had all- We had many different types of clubs with- The German Club. We had the Future Teachers of America Club. We had the Nursing Club. We had the National Honor Society. I’m trying to think with the Drama Club. It’s probably- You name it, I think we had it. And I think there was a lot involved with- A lot of students were involved. And I probably- If I can grab my yearbook, I can tell you some other clubs, because it’s basically because in my yearbook, they had all the various different clubs that were involved and different people that were associated with those clubs.
Julie Gabb [00:07:22] Were you a part of any of the clubs or activities?
Sandra Walker [00:07:24] Yes, I was involved in the Future Teacher of America, Future Nurses Club, the National Honor Society. I’m trying to think about what else. Basically the German Club. I was pretty involved with quite a few of the organizations.
Julie Gabb [00:07:51] So what would you do in German Club?
Sandra Walker [00:07:55] Well, I mean, I think basically German Club is just pretty much where we just. It was. It helped us develop our speaking in German in that, you know, when you went there, like, you weren’t allowed to speak English, and basically you had to facilitate and deal with everything speaking German, I think. No.
Julie Gabb [00:08:20] And in Glenville High School, were there cliques or anything like that?
Sandra Walker [00:08:27] Oh, yeah, I was. You know, it’s just like every other organization that there’s always cliques, you know, where you have the, you know, the cool kids, and then you have your nerds and type of a thing. And I think I probably would probably be considered as being probably more of a, probably pretty much more of a nerd in that I was very introverted at the time, and pretty much I always carried a briefcase. It was the thing about they always responded to me that I had my brains in my briefcase because I was one of the few. There were a number of other kids carried briefcase, but it was a rare occurrence, a briefcase as opposed to a backpack, you know, during that time.
Julie Gabb [00:09:33] And so were there any intramural sports or anything in Glenville High School?
Sandra Walker [00:09:37] Oh, yeah. We were known for our football team. We had an excellent football team, and even to this day, we have an outstanding football team. We also were known for our marching band, as related to that. And we had, you know, we had basketball. We also, during the time that I was there, we had an active tennis, because we had a tennis court, so we played tennis. I don’t believe, as you drive by now, I don’t believe they’ve used the tennis court in years today, you know, but we pretty much had baseball. We pretty much had baseball, bowling, Bowling Club competition. I’m trying to think. I think that’s pretty much I can think of right now. Yeah.
Julie Gabb [00:10:32] And where’s the tennis court at?
Sandra Walker [00:10:34] The tennis court is right- It’s right on St. Clair. It’s right, actually right in front of the school. It’s before you get to the front of the school, the tennis courts.
Julie Gabb [00:10:51] And so what would your, like, growing up during your childhood, where would you go for fun?
Sandra Walker [00:11:02] Well, for fun, we used to go to, there was a skating rink on Euclid and near 105th, so that would- That was one of the fun things, basically going to the skating rink and also, of course, going to, going to the movie movies was a good thing. We also enjoy going to the different school activities, the football, basketball games.
Julie Gabb [00:11:36] And what was the skating rink called?
Sandra Walker [00:11:41] I want to say Pla-Mor. I think it was a Pla-Mor skating rink, if I recall. It’s quite a few years ago, as you can imagine. I’ll be 64 next month. So just kind of taxing some of my long-term memory here.
Julie Gabb [00:11:57] And at the skating rink, how often would you go?
Sandra Walker [00:12:01] I guess usually weekly or every other week. You know, I would say we definitely went at least three times a month.
Julie Gabb [00:12:16] And where was the movie theater?
Sandra Walker [00:12:18] I don’t recall. I believe that was on Euclid also. It’s basically- It was where the currently, now is the W. O. Walker rehab, rehabilitation buildings right there. It’s right there between 105th and what’s that boulevard? East Boulevard, before you went to part of University Circle, but it’s right there where the hospital is. That’s where along that. That used to be a situation where you have the skating rink, the movies, and all that. It was a really active place around there. Actually, that whole part of Euclid Avenue used to be, because further down it used to- I’m trying to think of- It was Leo Casino. It was a hot spot, is where we used to get. All the nationally known entertainers used to come and play at Leo’s Casino. And that was also on Euclid Avenue. A lot of places now torn down, but that would probably right around about 79th and Euclid Avenue.
Julie Gabb [00:13:29] So you said that they had like a movie theater and skating rink, and Leo’s Casino. Was there anything else in that area to do?
Sandra Walker [00:13:42] Well, I mean, in the- Well, there still used to be, you know, there were parks further down around St. Clair, between- We still had the parks because, you know, you had the- Where it’s Martin Luther King’s Boulevard. And around there. There used to be a lot park area around there. There was Forest Hills where people just go and play and have picnics and that type of thing.
Julie Gabb [00:14:11] Did you ever go to- No. There’s a Forest Hills Park in University Circle. Is there one in Glenville?
Sandra Walker [00:14:21] No. The Forest Hill Park is basically- It’s in East Cleveland and Cleveland Heights. Cause matter of fact, that’s where I used to, before I moved to Shaker, I used to live in East Cleveland. So that’s a Forest Hill Park. That’s part of, part of it is responsible for East Cleveland. The other part is responsible by Cleveland Heights to work to maintain.
Julie Gabb [00:14:47] And you mentioned that those things were nearby, University Circle. Did you go to University Circle at all as a child?
Sandra Walker [00:15:00] Sure. I went to the, to the Natural History Museum, to the Art Museum. Natural History, Art Museum. Also attended the car museum that was there. And I’m trying to think. Yeah, so, and also there were times that we actually went to the concert at Severance Hall.
Julie Gabb [00:15:30] And what were your sentiments towards University Circle?
Sandra Walker [00:15:36] I think it’s a great place. I think that they have continuously done, added new things there and upgraded it with the Botanical Garden and some of the other things going on with the renovation and Art Museum, then by building the law school there. So there’s- I think they’ve done- And also all the increased work that’s been doing, that has been done with the Veterans Administration Hospital. They’re doing quite a bit of renovation and construction in that area to make it even better place that, to hang out. I think even now I like to go to the, go there, particularly during the summertime when they have the Oval on Square, where basically go there, and they have various types of music groups that are performing, which is nice.
Julie Gabb [00:16:42] And so where did you go when you were younger in Glenville to do your shopping?
Sandra Walker [00:16:51] There’s- Well, I mean, even to this place, there’s pretty much community stores, and they’re still pretty much there, usually right around 105th and St. Clair. And there’s still stores that are now, that are currently there now. It’s where we used to go and do our shopping.
Julie Gabb [00:17:13] What were the stores there, any names?
Sandra Walker [00:17:22] I cannot. I really cannot recall. I really can’t recall the name of the stores. No, I can’t recall.
Julie Gabb [00:17:39] What would you- I guess, where would you do your clothes shopping at?
Sandra Walker [00:17:58] Oops. I can’t recall that either. I can’t. You know, I’m trying to think. I’m trying to think most of what we used to shop. I think the biggest shopping area used to be right around, like, St. Clair and 105th around, or it was like, Euclid Avenue. Euclid Avenue still used to have quite a few places you can shop around that area, and that’s the only two, really. Two places I can only think of. I don’t recall any. Like, in a particular mall, like Richmond Mall or some of the other. I’m trying to think of. I can’t recall any. I can’t recall any malls. I’m trying to think of any malls that we went to. I can’t really recall any right now.
Julie Gabb [00:19:01] Did you ever go downtown at all?
Sandra Walker [00:19:04] Yes, I recall going to- We used to go to, used to be the Grant Five and Dime, Woodworth, Woodworth [Woolworth’s]. We used to go there and I recall going there and, oh, I’m sorry, we did go to the, to the May Company. To the May Company was downtown was the old Macy’s. And particularly I used to like going to Woodworth and having lunch there. And remember the hot dogs and ice cream, that I do recall there. And also, and also Higbee’s. I recall going to Higbee’s and used to like to go to the Forum restaurant. It’s on right down 9th and Euclid. And that was probably about, it was like a cafeteria style and they had great food. And I actually worked there during the summer, one of the summers while I was in college. I was in Kent State my freshman, after I completed my freshman year of college, I recall working, working at the Forum cafeteria downtown.
Julie Gabb [00:20:16] And how would you spell that?
Sandra Walker [00:20:18] Forum, I think it’s, I think it’s spelled F-O-R-U-M.
Julie Gabb [00:20:23] And what sort of food would you serve there?
Sandra Walker [00:20:28] It was, like I said, was a cafeteria, but I mean, but it was, it was more- It was cafeteria. Was kind of down-home food, too. It was very good. Like chicken and steak and meatloaf, my type of macaroni and cheese, mashed potatoes, green beans. It was very good. Salads, man, the desserts were wonderful. They had great pies and apple pies, peach pies, that type of thing. It was someplace you can go and you can get good food and was at a reasonable cost. So a lot of people used to, used to go and eat there.
Julie Gabb [00:21:11] What did it look like?
Sandra Walker [00:21:16] Kind of just an open place with, you know, tables and booths and basically had a line when you came in, had a line where basically get your tray or whatever and you would go through and pick the food was already on plates and different things like that. And they would also have individuals that would be doing serving. So you would pretty much, you know, you can pick things that were already laid out and then you can also just basically tell them something else that you wanted and then they would dish it out.
Julie Gabb [00:21:54] What was your favorite departments store, if you have any?
Sandra Walker [00:22:01] I would probably, I would probably have to say Higbee’s. And I also remember Higbee’s too, because Higbee’s also had a restaurant there too. And that used to be fun to go to Higbee’s and also go to their restaurant. That was really nice.
Julie Gabb [00:22:19] Why do you like Higbee’s [inaudible]?
Sandra Walker [00:22:23] I don’t know. I think, I think probably, probably with some of the selection of some of the selections of clothing that they had. No, because when I think about it, I think the only stores that I can recall back during that time would have been May Company, Higbee’s, JC Penney’s, and Sears. Those are probably the four basic stores that I came at that I remember.
Julie Gabb [00:22:59] And where did you, did you do your grocery shopping? Did you do Glenville? Downtown?
Sandra Walker [00:23:06] No, we did grocery shopping in Glenville. And also Glenville and also the West Side Market. A lot of times my mom would go to the West Side Market and get bushels of things like green beans or collard greens and something like that. And she would basically freeze them. Cause there were like five kids. And so one thing that was one thing that she used to do as far as trying to help with the food thing, like I said, going to the West Side Market, buying that type of thing. And also the West Side Market also to of course, buying some meats and stuff like that. Also the West Side Market also remember we should like to go to. I think they were like Wonder Bread. It was like the Wonder Bread Outlet. And it was that type of thing that you would go and buy thing and then put bread and put it in the freezer. Cause we had a huge, we had a, ’cause we had a huge freezer.
Julie Gabb [00:24:18] Where was the Wonder Bread outlet at?
Sandra Walker [00:24:21] Um, I think it was like on Miles Avenue. I think it used to be like on Miles Avenue.
Julie Gabb [00:24:32] So did your family take public transport? What was the mode of transportation to get around the city?
Sandra Walker [00:24:40] When parents had a car in my, well, actually my dad drove. My dad actually drove the RTA, the bus. He was an RTA driver for a good while, and then he then was a Rapid before when he retired, he was a Rapid driver. So he rode the Windermere Rapid. He was a Rapid driver. But basically we pretty much, because we had a car, we pretty much drove most of the places. I did do some public transportation, for example, when I was working down at the Forum, I would have to get up some ungodly hour to catch the bus. And so usually the mode of transportation there would either be to catch the 105th bus, usually to Euclid Avenue, and then take the Euclid Avenue bus down, or take the St. Clair bus all the way downtown and then walk over.
Julie Gabb [00:25:45] So what does the, what does the phrase Gold Coast mean to you?
Sandra Walker [00:25:58] Um, I don’t know. It really doesn’t, um, doesn’t really mean- It doesn’t really mean too much- It doesn’t really mean anything to me. Doesn’t really mean anything to me.
Julie Gabb [00:26:20] Going back to Glenville High School, community radio, guess like I never heard, never really heard of it. So were you- Did you participate in it?
Sandra Walker [00:26:36] Um, no, I didn’t- Um, no, I didn’t participate in it at that time. Um. Could you- Can you cut it off? Can you, can you cut it off? This is what I was talking about, the radio, TV.
Julie Gabb [00:26:56] So do you recall any specific memories in Glenville?
Sandra Walker [00:27:05] Well, they’re just kind of looking at it. I recall now that we basically had a- In addition to the radio, we also had a TV crew, too, which basically taught students how to use TV cameras and. And different things like that. And also looking at the- We also had- We talked about other types of clubs. We had, like the Rocket Club, and this is basically where they built. They learned how to build rockets. We had, like, our own newspaper, the Torch Stack. And this is basically where the students put the. Developed the newspaper and put it out. Had a projection club. And this pretty much took care of all of any class that needed visual aids, type equipment, stuff like that. That’s basically what they assisted with that. We had a student council, which pretty much ran the school and got involved and had the teachers and everything involved with that. And I was kind of refreshing my memory also. We probably may have been maybe the only high school that actually had a childcare there, which basically child development and what it did, it helped young ladies or men that were interested in perhaps going into childcare and. Or becoming kindergarten teachers and that type of thing, and basically helped them as far as dealing with young, with children.
Julie Gabb [00:28:54] And the children in the childcare, whose were they?
Sandra Walker [00:29:02] Just basically, they were people, like, in the community. In the community. And in the community, some of them were actually, may have been, could have been actually related to some of kids that were in the school. Could have been like brothers and sisters or something like that, that went to Glenville.
Julie Gabb [00:29:26] Was the childcare, was it free for people to use? Or was it- Did people have to pay for putting their kids in childcare?
Sandra Walker [00:29:38] I believe it was free. And if it wasn’t free, it was only like a nominal- It was only like a nominal amount because basically, because, you know, of course, the students, we weren’t getting paid. They weren’t getting paid. So it wasn’t like they had to pay salaries and that type of thing.
Julie Gabb [00:30:10] Is there anything else you recall of Glenville? Do you go to prom?
Sandra Walker [00:30:20] Yes, they had proms, and I did attend the high school prom. I think basically, I think one thing I remember about Glenville is that they just it was, it was a school that I was always something that was going on. It was always, they always had things as far as that would increase one’s talent. And I know that I was coming in, that it was based upon the education and the opportunities that were provided for me then really helped me in my life today. For example, being able to go to college at Kent State University and then graduate school and get a master’s degree in nursing, and then from there on to law school at Cleveland Marshall. So I would say that between, because of that, it really helped me to be able to be, have a successful career in nursing as well as law.
Julie Gabb [00:31:32] So you said that you went to Kent State afterwards. Did you move back to Glenville or?
Sandra Walker [00:31:40] No. What happened is that I went in 1970 - my parents was 20 then - my parents moved from Glenville to East Cleveland, to the city of East Cleveland. And that was during the time that I still had two more years left at Kent State. At Kent State, I lived on campus. For the first two years I lived on campus, and then the next two years, because I was in a nursing program and I got my clinical experience at Mount Sinai Hospital, it was easier for me to stay at home and commute to Kent State because I was at the hospital three days a week, and I was only taking classes in Kent two days a week. So it was easier for me to just to drive down in Kent two days a week.
Julie Gabb [00:32:32] And so you’re, you were in Glenville while you were in college age as well, then?
Sandra Walker [00:32:40] Yes, for two years.
Julie Gabb [00:32:42] And what did you do in Glenville at that time, like, for fun and things like that?
Sandra Walker [00:32:50] Well, probably at college age, kept pretty busy. The only thing, because basically, during the time that I was in limit during college days, I was really only home during the summer. And then during the summer, I was usually working. And I recall, as I was saying before that, the one summer I was, I was a teacher assistant during the summer and with some students, and I remember doing that. And then the next summer, as I was working at the Forum restaurant, as mentioned, that then downtown. So that was. So I was just probably doing the. By being in college, I was pretty much busy, you know, between studying and pretty much trying to work and trying to earn some money to get ready for the next, for the next school year.
Julie Gabb [00:33:51] So you’re saying you were teaching assistant?
Sandra Walker [00:33:53] Mm hmm.
Julie Gabb [00:33:54] Where was that at?
Sandra Walker [00:33:56] That was at- That was at the high school. That was at the elementary school. At that time, it was Oliver Wendell Holmes, which actually no longer exists now. it’s been torn down.
Julie Gabb [00:34:10] Did, uh, and you went to that elementary school when you’re younger?
Sandra Walker [00:34:14] Yes.
Julie Gabb [00:34:15] And the elementary school there, how was it over there? Do you remember any specific things about it?
Sandra Walker [00:34:31] Not really. I was, I know I just was there for the 5th and 6th grade. I don’t really recall anything, you know, specifically about the school.
Julie Gabb [00:34:48] Were there any neighborhood like partnerships with your school in Glenville?
Sandra Walker [00:35:04] Only thing I can call is that was there was the Glenville YMCA, which was right across the street from Glenville High School. And now we had some, made some contact with the YMCA. But that was about the only thing I can, I can’t think of any other outside, any other outside organization.
Julie Gabb [00:35:36] So did you go to church growing up in Glenville?
Sandra Walker [00:35:39] Yes, I went to Cory Methodist Church on 105th and St. Clair. And that was like between- That’s 106th? No, 105th. That was like between Cory Methodist Church was on 105th, but it was between like St. Clair and Superior Avenue.
Julie Gabb [00:36:02] So were you, were you present during MLK and Malcolm X coming to Glenville?
Sandra Walker [00:36:09] Yes, and actually basically in our yearbook we pretty much, we saluted Doctor Martin Luther King when he was, he was there on April 26, 1967. And basically up in our yearbook we have pictures of him doing his speech during that time.
Julie Gabb [00:36:35] So did you go to the speech at all?
Sandra Walker [00:36:37] Oh, yes, I was present.
Julie Gabb [00:36:39] Really?
Sandra Walker [00:36:40] Mm hmm.
Julie Gabb [00:36:41] And so do you remember anything specific about his speech or how, like, how was it in there?
Sandra Walker [00:36:48] What? Well, you know, I mean, of course it was. I mean, I mean, of course it was. I mean, it was like, you know, because it was packed and it was exciting, you know, to just to have, you know, to be honored to have Doctor Martin Luther King, you know, at our high school. And it was such a point to where it, I think every time you hear some famous person, someone that you admire, speak and basically be able to get some motivation, I think all that really always help you, particularly as far as moving on and obtaining certain goals and as far as going to school. And there’s times that when you like, for example, when you’re in school, like kid and things are looking kind of bad or you’re tired or what it is, it’s always good to kind of reflect back and think about those words of wisdom, kind of give you the motivations, you know, to keep going.
Julie Gabb [00:37:49] Were you able to see Malcolm X as well?
Sandra Walker [00:37:53] No, I didn’t see Malcolm X, no.
Julie Gabb [00:37:57] And did you encounter any racial tension when you were in Glenville growing up?
Sandra Walker [00:38:05] Well, yeah, they basically had the Glenville Riots. I was there during the Glenville Riots. And pretty much where they, you know, of course, basically broke into people’s windows and burned businesses and different things like that. During that time, I also was present. My parents had a. Had a restaurant in the Hough area, so I was actually present during the Hough Riots also during that time. But I think I want to say around 1960, I want to say maybe ’66, ’67, something like that.
Julie Gabb [00:38:46] And with the Hough Riots, what do you recall you said you were present at the riots?
Sandra Walker [00:38:54] Well, when I say, well, I wasn’t really in the riots, but I just basically, I guess, basically seeing some of the aftermath of it and just pretty much, you know, knowing what’s going on and pretty much people telling, you know, pretty much getting out of there. And our family, we were fortunate in that our business wasn’t damaged during that time. The down part was that because the location of the business, my parents were not able to get any kind of property insurance or anything like that. So that was a downside. And then later on, we ended up. We basically ended up having a fire, which basically did damage to the property. So pretty much didn’t have any coverage because we couldn’t have gotten it because we didn’t get insurance. It was, the fire wasn’t due to any, you know, anybody. You deliberately set it on fire type thing. But it was an electrical fire. But like I said, we weren’t able to get any insurance because of what went on during that time.
Julie Gabb [00:39:59] And what was your family’s restaurant?
Sandra Walker [00:40:02] It was called Margie’s, and it was a soul food restaurant.
Julie Gabb [00:40:10] Did you work at the restaurant?
Sandra Walker [00:40:12] Oh, yes. I got my first calluses on my feet from the restaurant. Yes, I worked there. And actually. And actually, some of my class. And on Sunday morning, usually my have classmates I went to Glenville. Wolf actually kind of helped out in the restaurant, couple classmates that would come in and help and help out on the weekend that went to Glenville also.
Julie Gabb [00:40:45] So what sort of, like, what dishes did you guys serve at Margie’s?
Sandra Walker [00:40:49] Oh, basically, of course, when you think about fried soul food, of course you have to have fried chicken. We do like, stuff like fried chicken, smothered steak, pork chops. We have, like, collard greens, macaroni and cheese, candy yams. Let’s see about potato salad. She have all different kinds of beans. A lot of people come in and they would just want a bowl of beans. And it was like pinto beans or black-eyed peas, navy beans, and that type of thing. Then the for desserts, you know, you have like, apple pies and sweet potato pies. And peach cobbler, cornbread. So that type of stuff.
Julie Gabb [00:41:44] Do you have a particular favorite dish?
Sandra Walker [00:41:49] Probably. I love collard greens, macaroni and cheese, probably candy yams. And I would probably say fried chicken to go along with that would probably be my favorite meal.
Julie Gabb [00:42:04] And where was Margie’s at?
Sandra Walker [00:42:07] It was located 79th and Hough. We actually had done, in addition to that one, then we had restaurant on 81st and Euclid, had that one. Then after she closed those two down, then she had one on Hayden Avenue. Almost. Almost on Hayden Avenue near Woodworth and Hayden.
Julie Gabb [00:42:34] And what food was served at the?
Sandra Walker [00:42:36] The same thing. Same thing. Yeah, we did. Did quite a bit of, you know, also that, you know, catering as far as food to different places. And because before my dad. Before my father worked for the RTA, he worked for the Post Office, a downtown Post Office. And so there were times, like, usually on the weekends, something like that, we would deliver as many as 100 to-go dinners down there for people on the night shift, even on the 3–11 shift.
Julie Gabb [00:43:28] So you worked late also there at the restaurant?
Sandra Walker [00:43:34] Well, yeah, but pretty much. It was usually- I mean, we didn’t really stay open if it was, the later hours were usually over the weekend, but during the weekday, we didn’t stay open that late. And usually on the late, it might be a Saturday or something like that. And on Sundays, we pretty much were just open for breakfast and lunch, and that was it for Sundays.
Julie Gabb [00:44:06] So in Glenville, where. Where were the places to eat in Glenville that you liked?
Sandra Walker [00:44:19] Place to eat in Glenville? I can’t think of any place to eat in Glenville, because usually, other than maybe there were always, like, some I know in the corner of where I used to live, 102nd and St. Clair, that was just a, just like a little mom-and-pop type of, once again, kind of a barbecue or a sandwich type shop type of thing like that. I can’t really think of any restaurants. I can only think of maybe, like some place you can get, like, sandwich, or hot dogs, or hamburgers and that type of thing.
Julie Gabb [00:45:12] When you were older, did you go to any of the pool halls, or taverns, or bars?
Sandra Walker [00:45:22] Well, there were always little corner bars around, but I didn’t particularly. I didn’t particularly participate in any. I didn’t particularly go to any of those.
Julie Gabb [00:45:35] Did you go to the casino at all?
Sandra Walker [00:45:40] Well, I went to. I was telling you about the Leo’s Casino. I went to that. I did. I did go there for, as I said, to see different types of entertainers and that type of stuff. So I did go there.
Julie Gabb [00:45:57] What entertainers do they have there?
Sandra Walker [00:46:00] Oh, like. Oh, yeah. Like, like the O’Jays. Pretty much most of the Motown. Pretty much most of the Motown singers went through, probably. I would say all of them went through Leo’s Casino. That was. That was really the in place in Cleveland, actually, to go to, if you want to, to see people like, you know, like the Temptations, the OJs, you know, the other groups, stuff like that. That was a place you would go.
Julie Gabb [00:46:35] Did you see any performances there?
Sandra Walker [00:46:38] Mm hmm. Yes, I saw several.
Julie Gabb [00:46:39] What bands and acts?
Sandra Walker [00:46:41] I know I saw the O’Jays. You’re really testing my memory. I can’t say specific- I can only say that I know, I know I went there several times and, like, trying to think of who that, who I saw there. I can’t really. Oh, can’t recall. Can’t recall specific names.
Julie Gabb [00:47:28] So you mentioned earlier how you saw racial tension occur, the riots. Did you ever personally have or feel any racial tension?
Sandra Walker [00:47:48] No, I have to say, not particularly. I’m trying to think. No, obviously not so much here. I see racial tension. I think the only thing I can that really stuck with me when I was going to Glenville is that one of my, one of my teachers who was really from Iowa, and I think he hadn’t really been around any African Americans, and he did make a comment that I was lucky that I was attending one of the better inferior Black schools. And I thought that was something that really stuck with me. And I really didn’t realize what he was saying until I went to Kent State University and realized that even though I may have ranked in the upper 5% of my class and, you know, and on the National Honor Society and all that other stuff, that when I went to Kent State and then basically had to compete with kids that went to all different types of schools and private schools and everything and realizing that, you know, that I had to work, you know, twice as hard in order to get through because- And then that’s when I realized that my education was not as good as it could have been.
Julie Gabb [00:49:28] With- You said that you saw the aftermath of the Hough Riots. What was- What did it look like after?
Sandra Walker [00:49:36] It basically, you know, the burning, burnt out buildings and different things like that and then having to- Later on, they basically having to, basically having to be torn down and then, of course, they build up new things in the place of it. But it was just, I think it means a lot of anger and stuff like that that people displayed.
Julie Gabb [00:50:10] Were you present at all for the Glenville Shootout?
Sandra Walker [00:50:16] No, I wasn’t. I wasn’t there. I was just there for the riots. I don’t call this Glenville Shootout.
Julie Gabb [00:50:30] You said earlier that your mom was a leader one of the leader of the Boy scouts. Were your siblings involved?
Sandra Walker [00:50:42] Yes, my brothers were.
Julie Gabb [00:50:44] Did you do any?
Sandra Walker [00:50:46] Well, we had what we call the Bluebirds back then. Yeah. So we were. Instead of being Brownies. Well, we were Bluebirds then, we were Brownies then, before you got to be a Girl Scout.
Julie Gabb [00:51:05] So what did the Bluebirds do?
Sandra Walker [00:51:09] Well, you know, basically, you know, they would, you know, just go on, you know, different types of little trips and learn to do different types of crafts and that type of stuff, you know.
Julie Gabb [00:51:24] Where were the Bluebird meetings held at?
Sandra Walker [00:51:27] At my mom’s house. At our house.
Julie Gabb [00:51:36] So what sort of crafts did you make with the Bluebirds?
Sandra Walker [00:51:40] I can remember making them make like a little apron. I remember making like a little apron out of a, out of like a kitchen towel and with, in ribbon that says that’s one particular one. I remember, I remember making type of things we remember making.
Julie Gabb [00:52:21] You said earlier before the interview that there was a Glenville Hall of Fame. It’s my first time hearing about it. So what people would be inducted in the Hall of Fame?
Sandra Walker [00:52:38] Basically what the Glenville Hall of Fame is, they pretty much have individuals that, that lived in the Glenville area, that attended Glenville High School and then, and, or they contributed to the Glenville area. For example, when I was inducted, I’m trying to recall, I know I- Coach Ted Ginn, who was the Glenville High School coach for many, many years as well. Now he has a school. I know he was inducted at the same time that I was inducted. Usually doctors, lawyers, judges, teachers, usually professional individuals that are inducted. To basically give you a better idea of what it consists of, you pretty much would just need to go and check it out. As I was telling you, it’s right there on St. Clair near the corner of 105th. It’s like an arch and it’s in black granite. The different people that were on it, and it pretty much has the background. Background and pretty much. I was basically honored for us, not only as for us as a nurse, but also as a judge. I was Municipal Court Judge in the city of East Cleveland from 2006 through 2011.
Julie Gabb [00:54:20] Congrats on that. And I guess, I guess going back earlier, I guess I’m just interested with the different. There’s so it seems like there’s a lot of woods around here and stuff like the parks, I guess. What parks did you find yourself playing at? Things like that.
Sandra Walker [00:54:55] Was. It said it was on. Well, one in we had the one that was down by, like I said, near East Boulevard and or Martin Luther King Boulevard on one end, then on the other end, there was a park around Parkview. Wasn’t too far from Glenville High School. Another park that we played in that particular park there. And then I’m trying to think. Yeah, so that was the. Those are really, if you look the border from where we live, those are really the only two parks that we played in also at the time, in elementary school, of course, they had, like, a playground and stuff like that during that time, too, behind Oliver Wendell Holmes Elementary School, which was on 105th near St. Clair. So it was only like I lived on 102nd, so I only had to walk, like, like three blocks over to get to the elementary school. And then went to. Went to Empire Junior High School, so.
Julie Gabb [00:56:16] And where was Empire Junior High on Empire?
Sandra Walker [00:56:19] Empire on Empire. Right.
Julie Gabb [00:56:22] And what grades did they have for that?
Sandra Walker [00:56:26] I went to the 7th and 8th grade.
Julie Gabb [00:56:31] And were, I guess- Was there extracurriculars or clubs that you were part of over there?
Sandra Walker [00:56:45] Nope. I don’t recall. To be honest. I don’t [recall], you know, junior high school. I don’t, like, recall doing that much in junior high school. I think junior high is always kind of a weird situation, weird place for kids. I think the only thing I can remember about, pretty much remember about junior high school was one that was a major incident. I remember, I remember the shooting of President Kennedy. I remember that. I remember we were in our classroom, and they went over the loudspeaker and they announced that President Kennedy was shot and killed. I remember that. That was really probably about the- One of my major memory from junior high school in 1963. And other than that, because I don’t. Because I don’t really remember any. I don’t really remember too much any activity through junior high school.
Julie Gabb [00:58:09] I guess, to close it out, what were, if you want to show someone in Glenville what Glenville, like, what encapsulates Glenville at that time? Where would you take them?
Sandra Walker [00:58:35] At that time? Well probably, I’m trying to think, where would I take them? I think probably during that time, I think one of the nicest places, really, was the school and the school grounds, and with the activity around the school grounds. And like I said then you had, like I say, the YWCA with that situation and around that area, you had, like, a park type area around there. But, of course, in today, this no longer exists. You know, it does exist. It’s not too nice, the unfortunate part, because I actually drove by. I actually drove by my old house the other day, and it’s still standing. But I would probably say it would be down by. Once again down by the park and also going over to the lake. To the lake. To the lake area right around where Martin Luther King kind of runs into the lake and the freeway over that area was really nice area. And we used to have an aquarium, which is no longer there. That used to be between 55th and, like, 79th and the Shoreway. There was aquarium there. And so we used to go over there and to the aquarium as well as- And have, like, a picnic and stuff like that over there. So we’ll probably be down that area around the lake area.
Julie Gabb [01:00:58] I guess that’s all I don’t have any more questions. If there’s anything else that just want to say about Glenville, feel free.
Sandra Walker [01:01:09] Well, you know, the only thing I could say is that it was, as I said, it was, you know, it was growing up, I think it was a good experience living there. And then what they would have did and forgot to say is that the. You know, I’d say that it takes a village to raise a child. One thing I can say which I didn’t say before is that the neighborhoods, the streets, the kids. The kids then had more respect for elders and growing up. And it was a situation where you knew that if you were doing something that you should not have been doing, and if an adult told you to stop you right away, you did stop, as opposed to nowadays, kid may curse you out, but I would say that is having our particular street, 102nd street. It was, like I said, it was more of a community. We were quite close with the families and the kids on the street, and everybody looked after everybody else’s kids. And I would say that was really a good thing as far as happening with the growing up. I think that’s probably why we had less problems with kids getting in trouble and that type of stuff, because you knew that there was always somebody looking at. Looking out, and they were going to tell your mother or father if you did anything. So I think that’s probably why he kind of kept you on the straight and narrow with that. But I would say it was a good experience as far as. And like I said, it was a very good background, as far as, you know, helping me to be the person that I am today.
Julie Gabb [01:02:57] Were there in your neighborhood? Was there any, like. Was there any different races in there?
Sandra Walker [01:03:09] No, it was pretty much. It was pretty much African American.
Julie Gabb [01:03:14] Did you have, like, a neighborhood association?
Sandra Walker [01:03:18] No. No, we didn’t have an association. It was. It was I mean, it wasn’t anything. It wasn’t anything formal type thing. You know, it was. It was a situation where people would get together. And, of course, I mean, sometimes we might have, like, street. We have like a street club or a block club or parties or something where the street. We kind of got together and maybe gave a party or something like that. But it was in. But it was nothing that we had a formal type thing. Whereas, like, where I’m living now, we have a formal Ludlow Association, which basically goes way back into the 1950s, you know, which basically, here in this particular area of Shaker Heights, it’s basically where they got together and to maintain this particular community as being an integrated community. Because I think back then, it was a situation where blacks was moving in and whites were moving out. And in order to maintain a racial balance, the Association got together. And basically. So that way the community remained an integrated community.
Julie Gabb [01:04:30] So it kept that sort of the ratio-
Sandra Walker [01:04:32] Racial balance. Yeah.
Julie Gabb [01:04:41] So. And that’s for this neighborhood. What was is called? The Ludlow-?
Sandra Walker [01:04:48] Well, what we call the- Refers to- It’s Ludlow Sssociation, which basically includes. It includes not only Ludlow Road, but also there’s about four or five other streets going over there that basically makes up the Ludlow Association.
Julie Gabb [01:05:08] So you say, like, this neighborhood association, were there any others like that where it sort of maintained the racial balance? Or?
Sandra Walker [01:05:24] I don’t know, around this area if they were. I know where. Well, I know in Glenville. Glenville was a- It was- I mean, it was- It was pretty much- It was- It’s all African American. Cause when I think of, I think my high school, I think we may have had maybe, maybe one, maybe one or two Caucasian, but everybody else was African American. Yeah.
Julie Gabb [01:05:57] Was there any, like, efforts within Glenville for, like, improving house appearance or anything like that in your community?
Sandra Walker [01:06:11] No, I think pretty much just basically the people that live there. It’s basically just the people. They’re just pretty much having pride in their own, you know, in their own community as far as maintaining it and keeping it well type thing.
Julie Gabb [01:06:28] Alright, well, I think that’s last question. If you have anything else. Thank you for doing the interview.
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