Abstract
Clara Nelson moved from Virginia to Glenville as a child. She went to Miles Standish and Glenville HS. Afterwards, she became a postal service carrier.
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Interviewee
Nelson, Clara (interviewee)
Interviewer
Gabb, Julie (interviewer)
Project
Project Team
Date
2-27-2014
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
70 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Clara Nelson interview, 27 February 2014" (2014). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 999112.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1038
Transcript
Julie Gabb [00:00:02] Hello, this is Julie Gabb, interviewer, interviewing Mrs. Clara Nelson on 4349 East 144th Street in Cleveland, Ohio, on February 27. So could you tell me about yourself?
Clara Nelson [00:00:22] Well, my family- My name is Clara Pasco Wiggins Nelson. My family and I moved to Cleveland in 1959. I was nine years old. We lived on Kimberley Avenue, 10626 Kimberley Avenue. Later in that year, my family moved to 9113 Empire Avenue. I grew up on Empire, went to Miles Standish Elementary School, Empire Junior High, and then on to Glenville Senior High School, where I graduated in 1968. I’m the third child of four siblings, the youngest daughter of my parents, who both were born and raised in Suffolk, Virginia, where we moved to Cleveland from. We never knew anything about snow, so snow was always exciting to us because we had never seen snow until we moved to Cleveland. And we couldn’t figure out what was snow. We had to wear boots, heavy coats, scarves and all that. And this was one thing that we were not used to moving here from Virginia. In the Glenville area, everyone was like a family. You know, some of the people were nice. Some of the kids were a little unfriendly because they used to always tease us because we came from the south. And they used to make fun of me, especially my name, Clara. They used to call me Clarabelle the Clown. And that used to make me so unhappy. And I went home one day and told my dad I wanted to change my name. And he said, why? And I said, because these kids are teasing me and they’re calling me Clarabelle the Clown. And he sat me down and told me, don’t you worry about that. You are named after my favorite aunt, and she was a great woman. Well, it didn’t make me feel any better, but I didn’t worry about what those kids were saying. And I just pushed it aside and just kept on going to school. I met a lot of friends, a lot of good people, people that I’m still friends with to this day. I have four girlfriends that I met when I first came to Cleveland, and we’re still friends over 50 years later. I got married at a young age that didn’t last. But out of that marriage, I got a wonderful son, wonderful son who’s doing very well for himself. My family was a very close knit family because we were the only ones in Cleveland at the time. We had no immediate family, just my other three siblings, my mom and dad. But my neighbors, the Lewises, that live next door to us, they embraced us just like family. Mr. Lewis and my dad became very close just like brothers. My dad was an only child, and Mr. Lewis family was in Alabama, and he would take my dad periodically with him to Alabama to visit his friends, I mean, his family. And they became very close. As a matter of fact, Babette Smiley Osley’s dad and my dad were very good friends. Babette’s dad was instrumental in helping my father obtain a job at the United States Postal Service, and they worked there for many years together. Babette’s father used to cut my dad’s hair. So we have. I have fond memories of people in the Glenville area that, you know, I’ll never forget. In high school, going to Glenville, I became a majorette in the Glenville High School Band. And at that time, the Glenville High School Marching Band was the best band in the city of Cleveland. I remember walking down St. Clair Avenue to Glenville to go to school, to go to band practice, and then walking back home. The only time I rode the bus was when the weather was really, really bad or really, really cold, and I just didn’t want to walk. But all of that was an experience for me because in Virginia, we rode the yellow school buses that the children are now riding here because of busing. But I had to ride a yellow school bus in Virginia.
Julie Gabb [00:05:07] So you said earlier that Glenville High School had the best band.
Clara Nelson [00:05:13] Yes.
Julie Gabb [00:05:14] What set apart Glenville High School’s band from the other bands?
Clara Nelson [00:05:18] Well, I think it was the commitment that the students had, the drum section, the majorettes, which I was a majorette, and it was just the togetherness that we had. Our band director, Mr. Turner, he would always make it like a family situation, and everybody looked out for each other.
Julie Gabb [00:05:40] And so as a majorette, what was your most memorable experience being in the band?
Clara Nelson [00:05:47] Our first football game, it was in Steubenville, Ohio, and we went onto the field and we did our little introductions and all that, and the band started playing, and the majorettes were supposed to doing our little routine. And I looked and my baton was down on the ground. I had dropped it and I didn’t even realize it. And I looked down and snatched it up real fast and just kept on going. And when we got off the field, after we performed, I asked the other people if they noticed that, and no one noticed it. And I felt so good because I was so embarrassed because I was up there doing the routine and my baton was on the ground.
Julie Gabb [00:06:36] I can relate. I was in band, too. I had stuff like that happen. So why did you move to Glenville from Virginia?
Clara Nelson [00:06:46] Well, my mom’s oldest brother lived here. My father was a bricklayer in Virginia, and he told my dad that he could find more work here in Ohio. Well, little did we know about the weather here. And we found out later that my uncle just told a big fib because there was really no work in the wintertime in Cleveland for a bricklayer. And that’s why my father got a job with the United States Postal Service.
Julie Gabb [00:07:20] So what were your impressions of Glenville as a child?
Clara Nelson [00:07:26] As I said earlier, everyone looked out for everyone. You know, we, well, before I got to Glenville, I was at Empire Junior High, and I ran track for Empire. And there were other junior high schools that we ran against. And then when we went to Glenville, all those junior high schools came together, and I saw children that I had seen at Empire, and now we’re all a part of Glenville. You know, there was no more competition. We all had to come together. So it was interesting because people that were rivalries with us then we became friends, buddies and acquaintances.
Julie Gabb [00:08:11] And what were some of the junior high schools that you were rivalries with?
Clara Nelson [00:08:17] Harry E. Davis, Patrick Henry Junior High, I think. I’m not sure if Oliver Holmes was a Junior High or elementary, but I do remember Patrick, Patrick Henry and Harry Davis.
Julie Gabb [00:08:35] So when you moved at the age of nine, were you able to go to Miles Standish?
Clara Nelson [00:08:40] Yes.
Julie Gabb [00:08:41] Were you a part of any of the different community engagement programs there?
Clara Nelson [00:08:48] I don’t remember. I do know that we used to have a little garden outside of the elementary school, and that was, I can’t remember what class that was when we had the little garden, but we had a garden, and we used to plant vegetables and stuff and cultivate that little garden as if it was in our own backyard. I do remember that.
Julie Gabb [00:09:13] Were you able to take any of the produce home that you?
Clara Nelson [00:09:17] Yes. Yes. The tomatoes, the cucumbers, and I think we had some string beans. I’m not sure, but I don’t remember any collard greens or anything like that. I do remember the tomatoes and the cucumbers.
Julie Gabb [00:09:34] And so was it a specific class where you learned about gardening?
Clara Nelson [00:09:39] Yes, but for the life of me, I can’t remember. I don’t know if it was, it wasn’t home economics because that was in junior high school, and I’m not sure what the class was in elementary school, you know, where we had the little garden and stuff.
Julie Gabb [00:09:55] Were your siblings after you or before you?
Clara Nelson [00:09:59] No. I had two sisters ahead of me and a brother behind me, and my oldest sister didn’t go to Miles Standish because she was eleven when we moved here. No, she was 13. I’m sorry. And my other sister was eleven, so they went on to junior high school.
Julie Gabb [00:10:20] Was your younger brother able to still harvest the vegetables and all?
Clara Nelson [00:10:26] Yes. Yes, he was.
Julie Gabb [00:10:29] And did you think that the vegetables and fruits and all, were they better than what you find in the grocery store?
Clara Nelson [00:10:35] Yes, much better. And I talk about the tomatoes because I love tomatoes. And to see those big, ripe red tomatoes, they were just so good. And then coming from the south, we used to just cut the tomatoes, cut them up, put mayonnaise and salt and pepper on them and eat them just like that. We even made tomato sandwiches. And I get that from my dad. And I tell people today that we had tomato sandwiches and they say, ew, tomato sandwiches. And they were very good because those tomatoes were juicy, good tomatoes. Much better than what we get in the grocery store today.
Julie Gabb [00:11:17] It’s like probably more red.
Clara Nelson [00:11:19] Yes, yes, ripe red.
Julie Gabb [00:11:24] And so you said that. Do you have any like, childhood memories of when you were in Miles Standish?
Clara Nelson [00:11:32] Yes, I. Yes, I do. We had gym classes and, you know, I was, I’ve always been afraid of heights. And my gym teacher, I still see him today, Mr. Towers. Luther Towers. And he said, you know, we had to climb ropes. And I was afraid and I didn’t know how to climb because I wasn’t a tomboy, I wasn’t a little prissy either, but I was just an nervous about the heights. And I would see all the other kids jumping on these ropes, climbing up, climbing up, and I said, Mr. Towers, I can’t do that. And he would tell me, there’s no such word as can’t you get up on that rope? And I said, I’m not getting up on that rope. So he sent a note home to my mom because I was being defiant. And I didn’t give it to my mom because I was afraid. But I got in even more trouble because when she found out I was supposed to give her this note and I didn’t, I got in more trouble. And I explained to her that I was afraid of the rope. But her information to me was when an adult tells you something to do, you do it and you do not talk back to adults. And I had to go and apologize to Mr. Towers. And to this day he will say, we were at a funeral one day and I was telling people that he was my elementary gym teacher. And he came back and he said, did she tell you how much trouble she caused me? And the ladies laughed and they said, yes, she did. He said, I don’t believe it. I said, Mr. Towers, I will always tell the truth.
Julie Gabb [00:13:23] So when your gym class, were there any, like, gym leaders?
Clara Nelson [00:13:27] Yes. Yes, there were gym leaders. I can’t remember any of their names. Well, we had Miss. No, Miss Moss was at Glenville. She was a gym teacher at Glenville. But the only people I really remember and focus in on at Miles Standish is Babette, Margie Piles, Bernard Savage, who is deceased now. And Deborah Halley. Those are my buddies at Miles Standish.
Julie Gabb [00:14:00] And so, moving up, when you’re in Empire Junior High, did you participate in any, like, intramural sports or clubs or things like that at all?
Clara Nelson [00:14:13] Well, I worked in the office, so they had like, an Office Club. I ran a little track. I wasn’t Wilma Rudolph, but I ran track because I love being outside. I didn’t. I don’t know if they had too many more sports at Empire, but track was pretty big around that time.
Julie Gabb [00:14:36] And so did you run track at Glenville High School then?
Clara Nelson [00:14:40] No, because when all those schools mixed up together and I saw how fast all those kids were, I said, I am not going out there and embarrass myself thinking that I could beat anybody. So I just sat on the sideline and went to the track meet and rooted the team on. Rooted Glenville on.
Julie Gabb [00:15:02] Were you transitioning from Empire Junior High to Glenville? Did you keep your same friend circle or-
Clara Nelson [00:15:10] I kept my same friend circle, but I met other friends at Glenville from the other junior high schools, like Patrick Henry and Harry Davis. I met other friends, so I had a large circle of friends. Even today I just have so many friends. Everybody said, why don’t you call, why don’t we do this? Why don’t we do that? And sometimes it’s okay, and sometimes you just want to be to yourself. But I do have a lot of friends.
Julie Gabb [00:15:41] So with Glenville High School, I understand the rivalry was Collinwood?
Clara Nelson [00:15:44] Collinwood, John F. Kennedy, East Tech, John Hay, East High. Everybody was rivalries, you know, and since we’ve graduated and been in the working world, we meet all these people from all these different high schools. And it’s so funny how we talk about, yeah, we used to beat y’all in this. No, you didn’t beat us in that. Yes, we did. I mean, even at church, you know, and now people that were our rivalries, we’re all friends now as adults.
Julie Gabb [00:16:25] Was there any sort of big game that you remember?
Clara Nelson [00:16:27] At Glenville? Well, let me see. I’m sure it is. Well, yes, we used to play East Tech and east Tech and basketball, and East Tech used to have a tough team. Even their cheerleaders were tough. And I had several girlfriends that were cheerleaders. And we used to think, well, you know, everyone thought that their school was the best in everything, so we thought that we had the best cheerleaders, which we did, the best basketball team, football team. But I remember the basketball because I used to date a guy that played basketball, and I always wanted them to win because, you know, you dating a basketball player. And I really remember this East Tech game because they were playing so dirty, you know, just not really friendly ball. And I wasn’t used to that. But we pulled it out. We won the game, but it wasn’t an easy win.
Julie Gabb [00:17:35] And what made Glenville’s cheerleaders better than East Tech’s cheerleaders?
Clara Nelson [00:17:41] They were cute. They were cute, and, you know, they were shapely, and they had this school spirit. You know, they had the school spirit. And we look at some of them now, and we would tell them, you didn’t look like that when you were cheering. And, you know, we laugh about that now.
Julie Gabb [00:18:03] And were you, were you able to be in the old school of Glenville?
Clara Nelson [00:18:09] Yes, I was in the old Glenville for, I think, one semester. We moved in there, and then we had to move to the new Glenville on. The old Glenville was on Parkwood Avenue, and then we moved to the new Glenville.
Julie Gabb [00:18:25] What was different between the old Glenville school and the new Glenville High School?
Clara Nelson [00:18:31] The new one was much larger, and we, we couldn’t find our way. You know, we had just gotten used to the new, the old Glenville. Coming from junior high school to high school, we had just gotten used to going through the halls, finding our classes and everything. And then at the new Glenville, I think we had three floors in that school, so, you know, you had to go from the first floor, second floor, third floor to your classes. So it was a challenge because no one knew where they were going, which was a good thing because everybody was bumping into everybody, but it was much larger, much wider, you know, open space and everything. And it was a little bit further, because from where I lived on Empire, I would just have to come across 105, walk down a couple of streets, and I would be right at the old Glenville. The new Glenville was on 113th off of St. Clair, so that was a little bit further for me to go to school.
Julie Gabb [00:19:38] And did the new Glenville have a cafeteria?
Clara Nelson [00:19:43] Yes. Yes, it did. From what I can remember, the food wasn’t that bad. But I think some days I took my lunch because my parents didn’t have money to give me to buy lunch every day. So I remember eating a lot of bologna sandwiches, a lot of peanut butter and jelly, a lot of peanut butter and apple butter, lot of fruit. So I didn’t have the luxury of buying lunch every day.
Julie Gabb [00:20:16] And did you do any intramurals or clubs when you were at Glenville High School?
Clara Nelson [00:20:22] Other than being a majorette, I was, like I said, I was in the Office Club, and that was working in the office. And at Glenville, I took- I didn’t take college prep classes. I took business classes. I learned how to type. I didn’t take shorthand because I thought I was going to do that once I got out of school and do shorthand later. But my classes were more business classes.
Julie Gabb [00:20:58] And what’s shorthand?
Clara Nelson [00:21:00] Shorthand is when someone dictate to you and you write in shorthand, but you don’t write the word all the way out. And you can go back and interpret what you have written by just making lines or symbols from what someone dictate to you.
Julie Gabb [00:21:19] And what occupations was that used for?
Clara Nelson [00:21:22] Secretaries use that. Lawyers use it. I don’t know if they used- It’s not a form of shorthand, court reporting, but it’s almost like court reporting. But court reporting have the little dots and stuff that the court reporters type in. And it’s basically something like court reporting.
Julie Gabb [00:21:46] And we always hear about the Tarblooder. What does Tarblooder mean to you?
Clara Nelson [00:21:56] Tarblooder mean hardworking, togetherness. Well, they said the Tarblooder was people who worked on the railroad, in the railroad business, and the hard work that they did and the long hours they put in. So for me, a Tarblooder is someone who works hard. Stick to it and get the job done.
Julie Gabb [00:22:24] Did you feel that’s how Glenville High School was?
Clara Nelson [00:22:27] Yes. Yes. You know, today we can see people that we went to school with. As a matter of fact, I was at church this week at a meeting, and one of the girls there, her father went to school with me, and she was talking about Tarblooders, and she said, oh, you don’t mess with those Tarblooders. I don’t care. They might not get along, but they stick together with each other. So we laughed, and I told her, I said, yeah, and don’t you ever forget that, Carmen.
Julie Gabb [00:23:12] Let me think. Sorry. Was there any reason why you specifically moved to Glenville and not another neighborhood?
Clara Nelson [00:23:24] Well, by us living on Kimberley and Kimberley Avenue was right across 105. And I don’t know when my father went to look for the house on Empire, if he looked in any other area or if whoever the realtor was helping him find a house, said that we have a house across 105 for you or not. But I don’t know how we ended up in Glenville area. You know, I don’t know about me being so young when we moved here, you know, I really don’t know.
Julie Gabb [00:24:02] Do you remember if your street, or even the neighborhood, if there were whites there?
Clara Nelson [00:24:10] There were a few. I don’t remember their names because we were. Our house was right across from Empire Junior High, although they’ve changed the name now. And there were a few whites at the corner of Empire and Herrick Road, but I don’t know how long they stayed there because once we. Well, once I got of age to go to Empire, they were, they had moved. But we did have whites at Empire that came from down on St. Clair Avenue, down around 70 something and St. Clair. And I think there were a few whites across 93rd in the, we always call it the second block of Empire because there was Empire. From 105, that was the first block, and then from 102nd to 93rd, that was the second block. And then the block we lived in, that was the third block of Empire. All those streets over there had three sections, you know, from 105 all the way down to Herrick Road.
Julie Gabb [00:25:24] So did you experience- As whites were moving out, were businesses moving out as well?
Clara Nelson [00:25:32] No, the businesses didn’t start moving out until after I had graduated from Glenville and I was an adult and I had moved away from the area. And you know how you move back and you say, oh, that store gone. Oh, what happened there? You know, I didn’t see that happening until after I became an adult.
Julie Gabb [00:25:57] Growing up in Glenville, what stores did you frequent in Glenville?
Clara Nelson [00:25:59] At that time, I ate everything. So there was a Scatters Barbecue place that we used to go to on Friday nights and get barbe- Yeah, barbecue sandwiches and barbecue. There was my girlfriend, Beverly Charles. Her dad had a delicatessen. We would go up there and get potato chips and all that stuff. I don’t think we had a McDonald’s in the area at that time. Not close, but these places, we could walk to them. And then there was a store right on the corner of 93rd and Yale. Mr. Williams, he had his little store there. We used to go there all the time. And then we had this ice cream store across the street on Yale and 93rd. It was the Dippy Whip. We would go there and get ice cream, ice cream sandwiches, ice cream sundaes, everything. We would always go up there and get that.
Julie Gabb [00:27:09] I always- I keep hearing Scatters during my interview. What was the best barbecue place to go in Glenville?
Clara Nelson [00:27:20] Scatters.
Julie Gabb [00:27:22] What set it aside from the other ones?
Clara Nelson [00:27:26] I think it was the sauce, the amount of barbecue that they gave you because we would get, I know what it was, shoulder sandwiches. And those things would be so thick with all that pork and that barbecue sauce in there. And at the time we ate white bread and it would be so much barbecue sauce in there that the bread would be turning red because there was so much barbecue sauce in there and then when you bit it, the shoulder would just fall out, it was so much in there. That’s how thick and juicy it was. But everything, the French fries, you know, they would put the barbecue sauce on the French fries and hot sauce and all that and everything was just so good. You know, we didn’t know about our arteries and all that then. We just ate it. [laughs]
Julie Gabb [00:28:17] Where- So you mentioned Yale and 93rd. Were there any other locations that you found yourself going for shopping?
Clara Nelson [00:28:28] I know my parents always- As a kid, I think we did a lot of shopping at Sears because, and I’m trying to remember, where was Sears? Because we didn’t have a lot of money, but we always- I’m trying to think, where was that Sears? I’m not sure, but we did go downtown a lot, you know, to May Company, Higbee’s, and I’m trying to remember where was at Sears. I don’t remember where that Sears was, but I know we used to always go to Sears and there was a furniture store on the corner of St. Clair and 93rd, Berg’s furniture store. And I know people used to go in there and buy furniture, baby furniture and different things from that store and that used to be right on the. When you’re going up 93rd to St. Clair, it used to be on the righthand side. As a matter of fact, it used to take up from 93rd all the way down maybe two or three blocks. That little furniture store.
Julie Gabb [00:29:45] You mentioned earlier that you went downtown. What would you do in downtown?
Clara Nelson [00:29:50] We would ride the bus down there to May Company or Higbee’s and just walk, you know, shop. I remember one year around Christmastime we went to see Mr. Jingeling and that was exciting because you know, we didn’t know anything about that kind of stuff growing up in Virginia. We never, you know, we lived in the country in Virginia, so to go downtown we rode the bus down there and rode the bus back. And it was just interesting because all that was new to me as a child, you know, to go and see Mr. Jingeling, someone you see on TV. I don’t even remember if it was a real Mr. Jingeling, you know, it was always someone pretending to be and had the keys and all that. And it might have been. I don’t remember. But I do remember riding the bus down there and going shopping with my mom. My dad would hardly ever go shopping with us. He just wasn’t doing that. So my mom always did that. You know, she would get us all together, all four of us, and we just go and have a day and then come on back home, whether we bought something or not.
Julie Gabb [00:31:07] What was your favorite department store out of them all?
Clara Nelson [00:31:10] I think Higbee’s. And I think to this day, Dillard’s is my favorite store.
Julie Gabb [00:31:17] What set Higbee’s aside from the rest?
Clara Nelson [00:31:20] I don’t know. I think it was the quality of the clothes, because when I first- When I- One of my jobs, I worked at the Federal Building, and that’s when I was, you know, after I got grown, and I would ride the bus to work. So I would catch the 19 bus to come back out here. So I would always go through Higbee’s and buy something new, whether I needed it or not. And it was- I think it was the clothes, you know, the quality of the clothes and their clothes always made you look sophisticated, [laughs] and I liked their clothes.
Julie Gabb [00:32:07] So where else did you travel to outside the neighborhood?
Clara Nelson [00:32:13] Well, one night we went- Well, all the guys that we grew up with, they were going to some parties, and they were going to parties. They said they were going to parties in Shaker. And at that time, you know, everybody that lived in Shaker, they act like they were the upper echelons, and they looked down on the Glenville area people. So my girlfriend and I, we got in a car. I don’t know whose car we were in, but we followed them to this party, and we went. We wanted to see these girls that they were going to see in Shaker. So we went to the party, and they looked up, and they said, “what are y’all doing here?” So we told them we wanted to come to the party like that. We wanted to see what was so fascinating about Shaker. And he said, I don’t believe this. Get out of here. [laughs] And we laughed about that for a long time, you know, because we followed them, and they looked up, and there we were, standing there in the party. And we wasn’t even invited, [laughs] but no one said anything to us or put us out or anything. You know, we just blended right in, started dancing and had a good time, and then we left. But the guys could not believe that we followed them there to see what they were doing. [laughs]
Julie Gabb [00:33:39] What else did you do for fun growing up?
Clara Nelson [00:33:42] We played kickball in Empire schoolyard almost every afternoon. And then on the weekends, we visited each other’s homes because my girlfriend, Margie, lived on Columbia. That was two streets over. My girlfriend, Beverly, lived on Kempton. That was the street after Columbia. So we would go over each other’s house and just sit around and play and just have a good time. Or we would go down to Bobette’s house and sit outside and just talk. And sometimes we would just sit in front of my house on the stoops and just talk and just have a good time. Or go down to Dippy Whip and get some of that good ice cream.
Julie Gabb [00:34:33] Did you ever go to any bowling alleys, at roller skating rinks or anything like that?
Clara Nelson [00:34:39] We went to the Pla-Mor when the Pla-Mor was downtown or on Euclid, but I couldn’t roller skate. I could not roller skate. But I was always there with the group. I never learned how to roller skate. I don’t know if I was a afraid or- It wasn’t because I didn’t have the skates. Because you could always rent the skates. But I just never learned how to roller skate. Yeah, we used to hang out at the Pla-Mor. Leo’s Casino. We used to hang out there as teenagers. As a matter of fact, my girlfriend Margie and Beverly and I, we went to Leo’s Casino to see Marvin Gaye. And we were sitting in the front, and we were sending Marvin Gaye messages on our napkins, and we would give ’em to the waiter, and we would send him messages. And after the show, Marvin Gaye came out and talked to us. And he said, I got every one of your messages. And he started pulling these napkins out, and we were so embarrassed. And my middle name is Pasco. And I said, do you think you could put my name in one of your next records? And he scratched his head, and he said, I’ll see what I can do, knowing he wasn’t going to do that. But, you know, just the thought of saying that to him, we just laughed, and we were all excited, and we felt like, ooh, we gonna have a record with Marvin Gaye! [laughs] And no, he wasn’t going to do nothing like that. But it sounded good. And we were just so excited. And you know that record, Marvin Gaye did, Hitchhike? And we told him my girlfriend Beverly had a red Thunderbird convertible. And we said, well, when you hitchhike again, we’ll pick you up in Bee’s red Thunderbird. And he said, okay. And he laughed. I guess he thought, these are some silly little young girls. [laughs] But we had so much fun with him that afternoon, and we still talk about that to this day.
Julie Gabb [00:36:52] How old were you around that time?
Clara Nelson [00:36:54] We had to be like 17 or 18, somewhere around there. [laughs] It was so funny. And we might have been younger than that because I don’t think we had driver’s license because, as a matter of fact, Beverly had the red Thunderbird, but she couldn’t drive. Her mom dropped us off and came back and picked us up. So we might have been maybe 15, 16, maybe. Yep. So, yeah, we were up there, Leo’s Casino. And it was like a Sunday matinee. You know, it was light outside and everything, but we still- We didn’t drive ourselves. [laughs]
Julie Gabb [00:37:32] What other performers did, did you see at Leo’s Casino?
Clara Nelson [00:37:37] I think that was the only one. And I think that was the only time I ever attended Leo’s Casino was to see Marvin Gaye.
Julie Gabb [00:37:46] Did you go to, as a teenager, what places were you frequenting?
Clara Nelson [00:37:53] Well, as a teenager, I loved to dance, and the Masonic Temple on a hundred. Hmm. Might be like 101st in St. Clair. It’s probably torn down now. They always used to have dances on Friday nights there, and I would always go up there and dance. I’ll never forget I had a gray, thick corduroy dress. And I danced so much that night, the whole dress was wet. And I got home and my mother said, girl, you have got to be the craziest child I know. Look how wet you are. You could almost wring the water out of the dress. That’s how wet I was from sweating from dancing so much. And as a young person, when I first started working and I was working at the Federal Building, I used to always leave work on Fridays and stop at the Theatrical. They used to always have parties there. The Theatrical party center or the Theatrical place on Rockwell, right there on Rockwell downtown. Because I was working at the Federal Building, I would just walk down there and go up there and party all night there and then get a ride down to the Muni lot to get my car and then go home. But I would always like to hang out and party and dance, you know, all night Friday, because Saturday I wouldn’t go out that much on Saturdays because I would try to get up on Sunday and go to church. But Friday night I would hang out.
Julie Gabb [00:39:31] What sort of dances were there?
Clara Nelson [00:39:34] Well, we did hand dancing, and they call it swing dancing now. We didn’t have a lot of line dancing then. It was always the swing dance. And I would call it just freestyling. You know, you get a partner, you just dance and do whatever, you know. Now, you know, kids doing break dancing and all this crazy stuff, and you don’t know what they doing. But we had a lot of fun in those days. You know? You didn’t have to worry about someone knocking you in the head and snatching your purse and all that, because I can remember just walking in the Glenville area, just walking around, leaving Bobette’s house 9, 10 o’clock at night, you know, walking back up to my house or walking home from Margie’s house and, you know, getting home safely, but now you can’t even walk down your driveway.
Julie Gabb [00:40:29] When did you start seeing the safety change in Glenville?
Clara Nelson [00:40:37] It didn’t change as a child or as a young adult. I think I saw it change after I had moved out and I had my son in the late seventies, early eighties. I think that’s when I saw a change coming to the area. And not just the Glenville area, but all areas because, you know, people were doing more drugs, breaking into houses and just being unruly, you know, and then people started getting the bars on their windows and the security doors and all that. And, you know, we sit back and we look now, what changed? What happened? And people say, well, we lost a generation. You know, kids are just not like they used to be. And I look sometimes and I think back and I say, I think they can be. But, you know, a lot of it has to start at home. You know, the parents have to be more visible. They have to sacrifice more to be with the kids, to raise the kids, to talk to the kids. When we were growing up, my father made sure every Sunday we had dinner together as a family after church, and we had to sit there at that dinner table and tell everything that we learned in church that day. What did we get out of Sunday school? What did we get out of the sermon, you know, what happened, anything that we wanted to discuss. And I don’t think families do that anymore. You know, sometimes on Fridays, my mother would cook fried corn, fish, spaghetti, a salad. You know, we were country, so we ate like country people, but we always had that family time, and I don’t think people do that anymore. And that’s very important to have strong families.
Julie Gabb [00:42:42] So, when you mentioned earlier that you went to church on Sunday, what church did you go to?
Clara Nelson [00:42:48] When we first moved to Cleveland, we were members of Antioch Baptist Church on Cedar, 89th and Cedar. And then we went to Second New Hope. That’s on 116th Street now. But before my parents passed away, we were all members of Olivet Institutional Baptist Church on 89th and Quincy, where I’m still a member now. And that’s where we were all members. We all joined that church.
Julie Gabb [00:43:26] Were you able to see MLK or Malcolm X when they came here in the sixties?
Clara Nelson [00:43:33] I didn’t see Malcolm X, but I did see Martin Luther King, because being a member of Olivet, Martin Luther King was very good friends with my former pastor, Otis Moss Junior. And Martin Luther King came to Glenville in 1968, before I graduated. And I didn’t realize who Martin Luther King was until he had left. And a lot of students got pictures with him, and I didn’t. But I listened to his message, and I’ll never forget. He said, books, not bricks, will make you, will help you make it through the future. And today, when I play that in my mind, he was telling us that an education was more important than violence. And some of the girls say that they can get that tape of his speech, but I haven’t gotten a copy of it, you know, but I saw him when he came to Olivet. And at Olivet, I’ve had the opportunity to see Bill Clinton when he was running for president. Andrew Young, Bernice King, Oprah Winfrey, all of them came to Olivet because they were all friends of Dr. Moss, and he would have them come. We had, like, women’s day, men’s day. So he had different people come to speak. So I had the opportunity to meet them. And another reason, because I’m an usher at my church. So as an usher, you know, you get to talk to security and find out how we gonna make it safe for these individuals. And that was a good thing, because I got a chance to meet all these people.
Julie Gabb [00:45:29] So who did you exactly get to meet?
Clara Nelson [00:45:32] Oprah Winfrey, Bill Clinton, and Al Gore and their wives when they came to Olivet when Bill Clinton was running for president. Andrew Young, Jesse Jackson, Bernice King. As a matter of fact, when Bernice King came to Olivet, I went with the lady to pick her up from the airport. So I rode in the car with her and we talked, and. And, you know, she probably won’t remember me to this day, but I was there in that car with her, riding from the airport. Oh, it’s so many. Who else? Oh, so many people. Stephanie Mills. Stephanie Mills. I did not know how short Stephanie Mills was. They had to get a little podium for her to stand on because she was only, like, four feet tall, and they had to get a little stool for her to stand so that she could reach the microphone. And she told a story about how sick she was. And Reverend Moss prayed with her mom one night that she would make it through the night. And she made it through the night, and she came and told her story, and she sung. You know, she has a beautiful voice. And, you know, the people that he had come to Olivet, the stories that they told and about their friendship, it was just so overwhelming, so great to be in a position to listen to those people and to see the friendships, you know, through the years. And let me tell you this. When I was at Antioch, I was sitting in church one Sunday, and guess who I was sitting next to? Moms Mabley. She was a comedian, and I did not know that. And, I don’t know, I said something to her and she said something back, and I looked and I said, are you Moms Mabley? She says, shhh. And I said, oh, my God, no one would never believe this. And she said, shhh. And then, you know, I don’t know if you know her or know of her, but that voice, she said, baby, don’t you say nothing too loud. And nobody believed me. And you know how they say people disguise themselves? She tried, but when she said something to me in church, and I looked, and I’m so nosy, and I just kept staring, and she said, don’t you say nothing. And I said, I won’t say nothing. But I was really elated that I was sitting in church next to Moms Mabley. Yep. Yep. And I could have probably had my debut there. You know, I could have been discovered. [laughs] I said I wouldn’t say anything. Yeah, I’ve had a good life. I’ve had a good life. I’ve enjoyed the things that have happened, you know, for me, in my life.
Julie Gabb [00:48:55] Trying not to segue into a really sad part. So have you- What does the phrase Gold Coast mean to you?
Clara Nelson [00:49:11] Gold Coast? I don’t know. I’ve never- I don’t think I’ve ever heard that. Or if I have, I haven’t paid that much attention.
Julie Gabb [00:49:25] Were you engaged with the community at all like in any community outreach or?
Clara Nelson [00:49:27] In the Glenville area? Mmm, no, because I always watch my mom. My mom was a- She worked with the Board of Elections. She was a precinct woman, and she did a lot of stuff, and I would go around with her, you know, when she did a lot of things. But me, myself, I can’t say that I was, unless it’s something that’s just not coming to me and I can’t remember.
Julie Gabb [00:50:07] What did you think of the Glenville Plan?
Clara Nelson [00:50:14] As an area?
Julie Gabb [00:50:18] I guess, like the neighborhood [revitalization]. Yeah, for, like, the whole Glenville.
Clara Nelson [00:50:25] Well, I wish that it would come back to where it was 50 years ago. I look at the neighborhood now, and so much has changed. Well, every neighborhood now, there’s so many abandoned houses. And that neighborhood, the Glenville area, along with the Mount Pleasant area, were two of the most prominent areas in the city of Cleveland. And to look at them today and see all the abandoned houses is heartbreaking, because people worked hard to keep their properties up to make sure that their area looked nice and was presentable. But now the way the Glenville area looks, it doesn’t have to look like that. You know, I drove through there yesterday. I drove down 105, and, you know, seeing the young men on the corners with their pants sagging and look like they’re doing things they’re not supposed to be doing, it’s disheartening because they don’t realize that there’s a better life than standing on a corner, your pants sagging, and, you know, up to no good. It’s just a better life. And I don’t know where they went wrong. And my son always tell me, ma, you can’t save everybody. But I wanted to stop my car and say, pull those britches up. Go home, you know, do something constructive with your life. And I know the postal service is always looking for people to carry mail, but most of them probably wouldn’t even pass the drug test. And they don’t even realize they could get a good job carrying mail, making something of themselves. But they, they won’t do it. They won’t do it. So I wish that it would go back to where it was 50 years ago. And I know a lot of things we can’t go back in time, but if we had some more Martins, Malcolms, John F. Kennedys, Robert Kennedys, and those people to help the communities, the world, ooh, it would be so much better. So much better. You know, people fought for us to be better than what we are, regardless of the color of our skin. You know, it doesn’t make any sense. You know, when I moved in this house that I’m in today, there was a white couple next door. There was a white couple across the street, and they were very nice to me. They didn’t care that I was African American. The couple next door, they used to come over and say, honey, if it’s anything you need, let us know. They knew that I was a single parent, and they looked out for me just as though if I was their daughter. And when they moved, I was so sad because I said, oh, God, who’s gonna look out for me now? You know, it’s just not the same. And you, you embrace that kind of concern. You know, I love it because I don’t look at skin color. If someone’s nice to me, I’m gonna be nice to them. You know, I don’t care what your skin color, if you’re good, honest person. My father always taught us, you can have friends whether they’re white, black, green, pink, or purple.
Julie Gabb [00:54:18] Do you ever encounter any racial tension growing up?
Clara Nelson [00:54:24] Yes. Oh, lord. [laughs] Oh, man. The first job I had, it was so. [sighs] Oh, man, it was terrible. I was working for this company. As a matter of fact, it was down on, I think it was like, 71st off of Harvard. And like I said, I would always take my lunch to work. And these young girls, they took my lunch and they threw it in the garbage can, and I came to get my lunch, and there was no lunch. And I said, did someone take my lunch? Where’s my lunch? And they said, oh, that was your lunch? Oh, we threw it in the garbage, and I just lost it. I think I took one of them, and I was shaking ’em, and, oh, I just lost it. Well, needless to say, I got fired. And when I got home, my mom said, baby, you just cannot act to every situation. I said, well, Mom, they told me to take this lunch out of the garbage can and eat it as if I was some kind of dog or something. And she said, what? I said, yeah, they told me. And I was trying to tell the guy that was my boss that. And he didn’t want to hear it, you know, because I was the only African American there. You know, I was wrong for what I did, but they were wrong, too. And I thought they were just being mean to me, and, oh, I just lost it. And then working at the United States Postal Service, I got promoted to station manager in Parma. And, oh, God, that was an ordeal. For the first five years that I was at that station, I had to [sighs] write, answer petitions and stuff because they wanted me out of the station. The employees, they wanted me out of the station. I was the first African American who held the position of station manager in Parma, and they did not want me there. And they made my life horrible. And then when I retired, they didn’t want me to retire. They said, oh, don’t leave. We’re gonna miss you. I said, yeah, right. But the only thing that sustained me was the fact that I had a strong faith. And I prayed every day because I was determined. Well, it wasn’t too much I could do, because on my job, I wasn’t gonna mess up my job, you know, dealing with them and having to go through that. And I couldn’t file any EEOs and anything because I was the station manager. So the only thing I could do was pray and ask the Lord to give me strength, sustain me, keep me, protect me. They keyed my car. One girl called me the n word. They went in my office, and they took everything on my desk and put it in the middle of my desk. It was just horrible. One of the customers came in, and the girl at the counter selling the stamps, she said, this customer want to see a supervisor. So I opened the door, and I said, “ma’am, may I help you?” She said, “Oh, it’s you?” I said, “excuse me? I said, would you like me to help you?” “I really don’t take kindly to your kind.” I said, “Well, ma’am, you need to leave.” And she wouldn’t leave. I had to call the Parma Police. And I told them what she said and how she said it. So they banned her from coming in the station anymore. But it was just so frightening. But I did have a good rapport with the Parma Police. They looked out for me. They made sure that everything was okay. And they said, Miss Nelson, you don’t have to go through this. If you ever need us, don’t hesitate to call. And I didn’t have too many more problems until one girl came to the station, and she was telling everybody, oh, you don’t have to worry about that. So and so I’m gonna make sure she gets out of here. And she did everything she could to try to get me out. I looked up one day, and the Parma Police was coming in the station, and they were looking for me because she had called the police on me. And when we went in the office and we started talking, the police told her, said, you’re wrong. If she’s your boss, you have to do what she tells you to do. You can’t do what you want to do. So it was just- It was just bad. It was just bad. But like I said, my faith got me through. And I thank God that I had a relationship- I have a relationship with God. I have strong faith. And I knew that, you know, they had the problem, not me, because I met some good people there. As a matter of fact, there was a man at the Parma tax office that I went to every year to help me with my taxes and do my taxes. He was so nice to me. He told me different things that I needed, you know, and when to file and all that. He helped me get on a payment plan and all that. So it was some good people there, but for the most part, it was like, please, we are not the enemy. And one girl even told me, said, you need to go back on the East Side where you belong. Yeah, it was. It was. It was rough, but I made it through. I made it through. And some of the people over there I still talk to to this day, but the ones I know don’t want to be bothered. I don’t be bothered.
Julie Gabb [01:00:26] Did you encounter any, any of that in your childhood or adolescent years as well?
Clara Nelson [01:00:32] Well, in Virginia, I did see the signs for colors only, but I can’t say that, you know, I had any real encounters in Virginia. Only up here. Only up here, because we did have a few white children go to our school in Virginia. And then there were more when we moved away from Virginia, but no encounters like I had up here.
Julie Gabb [01:01:07] Was there any in, like, Glenville, in your Glenville years?
Clara Nelson [01:01:12] No.
Julie Gabb [01:01:15] And how was, like. Was it hard to get house ownership, or did you know of anyone that was difficult to get housing ownership here?
Clara Nelson [01:01:27] No, because when I told my dad that I was going to buy my house, he was telling me that they’re not going to give a single woman a house. And I said, well, daddy, all I can do is try. And I think I bought this house in 1975, and I think then they had changed the laws where they were allowing single women to buy houses. And that’s what happened. And he said, well, if you get it, I’ll help you all I can. And I said, well, the only thing I can do is apply and see what happens. Yeah.
Julie Gabb [01:02:05] And in Glenville, to did Whites and Blacks generally get along well?
Clara Nelson [01:02:09] Yes, from what I remember and from what I could see, yes, they did.
Julie Gabb [01:02:19] Um.
Clara Nelson [01:02:27] You need some light?
Julie Gabb [01:02:29] Oh, no, I’m good.
Clara Nelson [01:02:30] You okay? Yes.
Julie Gabb [01:02:35] Oh, were you around during the Hough Riots at all?
Clara Nelson [01:02:39] Yes. Yes. As a matter of fact, I used to work at the- It was a Cleveland Trust Bank at 123rd and Lakeview. And we came out of work one day, the day, the night that the riot started. And it was so dark. It was- It wasn’t nighttime, but the sky, everything looked so blurred. And it was, I guess, Black nationalists or the Muslims walking up and down there, and they long dashikis and stuff. And at the time, I didn’t realize that they had those rifles and stuff up under those. Their clothing, and because they were rioting up there on 123rd and superior. And that was around 1969, because I was working at that Cleveland Trust Bank, and I had just graduated from high school. It was either ’68 or ’69. But anyway, when we came out of that bank, I saw those people and they spoke. And I spoke because, you know, coming from the south, we just speak to everybody. And at the time, I had a big afro, so, you know, somebody spoke. I just spoke, you know, without even thinking. And the Hough Riots. Oh, God, yes. I was around for that. And I just thought it was terrible. I didn’t understand it, but I just thought it was terrible because I couldn’t understand, why would you destroy a neighborhood? What would you get out of destroying a neighborhood? And, you know, for what reason? I never could understand that, because if they knew anything about Martin Luther King, he was about nonviolence, and they were destroying their own property, their own area. And I just can’t understand, you know, they have a special going on now about Angela Davis, about Free Angela. I started watching it last night, and I didn’t finish watching it, and I saw that it came on later today, but I caught the tail end of it. And I didn’t realize that she was a professor at UCLA, and they had fired her because she said she was a communist. But they said that that’s not why they fired her. They fired her because she had gotten in with the Black Panthers out there in California. And she said she wasn’t in with them, but she was trying to help understand why there wasn’t justice for a lot of things. And I don’t know where they went wrong or what happened for everything to go out of control, but somewhere it went out of control, and nobody was doing the right thing, and then it turned to violence. So that’s what I couldn’t understand.
Julie Gabb [01:06:03] We have a little time.
Clara Nelson [01:06:05] Cause it’s getting-
Julie Gabb [01:06:06] Getting dark. Thank you. Were you around for the Glenville Shootout at all?
Clara Nelson [01:06:23] Yes. Yes. And it was very frightening. Very frightening. Because you never knew when you would be in the line of fire or when you would be subjected to a stray bullet. And again, I never understood why. Why, you know? and I think the police has always been afraid, and they just shoot people for the sake of shooting them for whatever reason. And, you know, and it just makes it bad because it’s almost like no one ever talks anymore. Everybody just starts shooting, and that’s what really makes it bad. So.
Julie Gabb [01:07:19] Did you see any of the aftermath of the Hough Riots at all?
Clara Nelson [01:07:23] Yes. It looked like a combat zone. You know, it was just. Everything was just tore up, you know, just torn up. We would ride through and look to see, you know, what was left after everything. And it was just. It was a disaster, as if someone had took a bomb and just threw it in the middle of something and everything just blew up.
Julie Gabb [01:07:59] I guess to end on a happier note, where did you get to take- Did you and your siblings go anywhere for fun around the area?
Clara Nelson [01:08:13] In the Glenville area?
Julie Gabb [01:08:17] Or even outside?
Clara Nelson [01:08:19] Well, like I said, we used to play kickball in the schoolyard across the street, and we always did that. We always played in our parents’ backyard or up and down the street at someone’s house. You know, we had. It was a lot of children on that street at the time. And there are three parts to the schoolyard that we played in, the one right across from our house, the one on the right. And then it was a larger part of the schoolyard up by 93rd. We would always play up there.
Julie Gabb [01:08:52] And what. What was your impression of Glenville when growing up versus now, like did that change at all?
Clara Nelson [01:09:03] Growing up, I loved the area. I still love the area, but I’m afraid I would be afraid to walk through the area now by myself or with someone because of everything going on. And that’s not just Glenville. It would be even over here in the Mount Pleasant area, I would be afraid to walk down the streets right now. But I love that area. I love the camaraderie with the neighbors and everybody over there. Most of the people in the area have even either moved out or have passed on. So it’s a lot of new people in that area where I grew up and in the up and down St. Clair, you know, they’ve changed St. Clair, they put more businesses and stuff over there, so everything has really changed. Is it for the better? I don’t know, but, you know, it’s changed.
Julie Gabb [01:10:06] Okay, well, I think I’m done. If you have any last words about Glenville, you can go right ahead.
Clara Nelson [01:10:14] Well, like I said earlier, I wish it would go back to where it was 50 years ago, and I know that’s probably impossible, but I hope that I can see the Glenville area and all areas come together as one, because we are Cleveland as a whole. And it’s not divided into your section, my section, their section, whoever section we’re all in this together, and it takes all kind to make up an area.
Julie Gabb [1:10:42] I agree. Well thanks again, I’m going to stop right here.
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