Abstract
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst moved to Glenville from Kentucky as a child. She was actively involved in Glenville, especially Glenville High School, where she was crowned homecoming queen. Glenville High School inspired her to be a teacher. She was a teacher in NYC, and then moved back to Cleveland, where she lives in Cleveland Heights now.
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Interviewee
Pyles-Hearst, Marjorie (interviewee)
Interviewer
Gabb, Julie (interviewer)
Project
Project Team
Date
3-13-2014
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
57 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Marjorie Pyles-Hearst interview, 13 March 2014" (2014). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 999115.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1041
Transcript
Julie Gabb [00:00:01] Alright, this is Julie Gabb, and I’m interviewing Marjorie Pyles-Hearst in Cleveland Heights, Ohio, on March 13, 2014. And we’re gonna start the interview with: Can you please tell me about yourself?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:00:18] I am presently married. I have no children. Two black labs. I am presently married. I have two black lab dogs, Congo and Kenya. I teach at the Cleveland Sight Center. I am an employee of Cuyahoga Community College, and I teach in the adult education program there. My assignment is at the Cleveland Sight Center, where I teach blind and visually impaired adults. This is such a rewarding profession. I really love it. I enjoy teaching these individuals because they’re so needy, and there’s such a demand in that area for education for the visually blind and visually impaired. I have one brother, one sister. I live in Cleveland Heights. I’ve lived in Cleveland Heights, Ohio, for over 20 years. I was, however, raised in the Glenville area. From there, I attended Morgan State College in Baltimore, Maryland, and then went on to work on a special project in New York to teach in Brooklyn, New York, third grade, to student teach. And I took an opportunity to move to New York to student teaching. I was supposed to be there for six weeks, and I was there for 20 years. In New York. I taught 7th grade English as a beginning teacher in the South Bronx, which was very interesting. Then I went on to further my education at Queen’s College in New York and then worked at various programs within New York and became a director of a word processing secretary training program in Harlem and worked at a junior college in the adult education program. And then that’s what got me back to Cleveland, too. I work as a consultant on a disparity study for the city of Cleveland. And then I decided that my hometown looked good. It had a lot to offer. And I decided to move back to Cleveland back in 1991. So I’ve come full circle.
Julie Gabb [00:02:44] So did you move to Glenville?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:02:48] No, my- Yes, my family did. I was born in Kentucky, and my family moved to Cleveland when I was a month old. And then we eventually settled in the Glenville area when I was four years old. And I was raised in the Glenville area on up through, until I went away to college and came back home. My parents moved from the Glenville area in 1992, I believe it was.
Julie Gabb [00:03:18] And so what was your impression of Glenville as a child growing up?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:03:25] It was, you know today how they say it takes a village to raise a child? Well, the Glenville area in that time was truly a village. It really was. You had people from all walks of life who lived in the area. We had teachers, we had lawyers, we had doctors, we had numbers runners. We had nurses. We had professional ball players. We had blue-collar workers. We had all types of people who grew up in that neighborhood. Thus the children, we were all close. We all went to school together. We walked to and from school together. We played together. Our parents interacted together. Some of our parents worked together, did various activities together. So it was a very, very close neighborhood community. Everybody knew everybody. Everybody cared about everybody. It was, it was, it was a wonderful experience. It was Mayberry in Glenville.
Julie Gabb [00:04:24] What street did you grow up on in Glenville?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:04:26] I grew up on Columbia Avenue, 9306 Columbia Avenue, which was at the second house from the corner of 93rd and Columbia.
Julie Gabb [00:04:34] Okay. And so what did you do for fun as a child in Glenville?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:04:40] We, everything was around athletics and education. I used to love to play kickball. We played kickball from sunup to sundown in the summer. We played badminton. We took swimming lessons. We bowled. We had a good time. We danced. We would go to dances. And it was a lot of recreational activities. We would go swimming every Friday evening. And it was just a village raising children and having a good time. But education was really stressed also. So for fun, I liked to play school. I always played school. I wanted to be the teacher. And I guess I just followed that dream from a little girl. But it was wonderful. We were very athletic, we were involved, and thus we were physically fit also.
Julie Gabb [00:05:37] Where would you go to dances at?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:05:40] We would go to dances at the Glenville Y on 113th Street. I think it’s since closed. We would go to dances there. Dances in school, in junior high school, at Empire, every Wednesday night was called the canteen. And you could go in the evening and you could take various classes and art classes, or you could play basketball or sewing, or you could dance from, I think, seven to eight. And it was over at 8 o’clock, and kids walked home from the canteen, and it was fine. There were no problems there. So we did a lot of dancing in school. There were a lot of dances in school. But the Glenville Y really comes to my mind where we would go to dance.
Julie Gabb [00:06:25] What sort of dances do you guys do?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:06:29] We would hand dance, but also during that era, different songs came out. The monkey. So we did the monkey. We did the four corners. We did the jerk, we did the cha cha. So there were a lot of records that came out, in the name of the record there was always a dance that would usually go with that dance.
Julie Gabb [00:06:52] Was there also things like prom and things like that that you attended?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:06:55] Oh, yes. We had junior prom from Glenville. I can’t remember where the junior prom was. I’m sorry. From Empire. We had a junior prom. From Glenville our prom was at the Pit Carter Hotel, I believe. I’m not sure, but it was wonderful. It was, you dressed up, you got your hair done, your date picked you up, and there were after parties. It was fun. It was just fun. The whole senior year at Glenville was just loaded with fun. That year, 1968, when I was a senior at Glenville, was a very, very tumultuous year. Martin Luther King was killed in that April. I remember coming home from my senior picnic, and my parents were watching the funeral of Robert Kennedy on TV. So that 1968 was a very heavy civil rights period and a heavy time. I remember Martin Luther King coming to Glenville when I was in my junior year in 1967 and spoke to the student body. So that year, it was a very, very hot time in the civil rights movement.
Julie Gabb [00:08:11] So were you able to see Martin Luther King when he spoke at Glenville?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:08:15] Yes. Yes, it was, what do they call it then, when all this… An assembly. It was an assembly, and it was for the students. We all congregated in the gym, and he spoke, and I remember it like it was yesterday. And then to hear about the civil rights movement is one thing, but to have lived it and experienced it is a whole different thing. And just to think back that it wasn’t that long ago, but living in the Glenville area, we all grew up together, so there weren’t, we didn’t experience that amongst ourselves. That was outside of the Glenville area that we experienced. However, they did have the Glenville riots in 1968, and I was there to experience that, too.
Julie Gabb [00:09:03] So what were some of your memories of the Glenville riots?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:09:10] What I remember most is my parents were in Canada, and our grandfather was staying with us, so it was frightening to me because our grandfather was not- He was from Kentucky, so I was afraid that maybe they would come to our house and my grandfather wouldn’t know what to do. But it wasn’t near my home. But we saw on TV, you could hear the police sirens and the fire trucks and saying on TV, don’t go in this particular area. Stay in your homes and all. But I wasn’t near it. But I do remember it very vividly.
Julie Gabb [00:09:48] Were you also present during the Hough riots?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:09:51] Yes. Mm hmm. Yes, I was. I was, too. Again, that wasn’t- It wasn’t near where I lived, but it affected the whole community because 105th Street was not far from our house. And I don’t know if there were any, any burnings or anything up on 105th Street, but we had a lot of nice businesses owned by Blacks as well as Whites on 105th. So I’m not, I don’t really remember that part.
Julie Gabb [00:10:21] You were saying earlier that, about Glenville High School. So what were some of your, like, were you involved in intramurals or clubs in the high school?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:10:33] I was. I was very involved. I was a cheerleader. I mean, I was a gym leader. I was in the future teachers of America club. I was on the yearbook staff. I was on the student government. I was a homecoming queen in my class. We had a popularity poll and I was voted most popular in my class. So I was very active. High school was wonderful. I learned so much about, not just so much educationally, but just so much about life and people and education within itself. So it was great. Glenville was wonderful.
Julie Gabb [00:11:14] Were you around when there was a transition from the old Glenville to the new Glenville High School?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:11:20] Yes, I went to, back in the day, they had, the semesters were divided, so they had an A and a B. So you would be, I was in the 10-B at the old Glenville, and then we transferred to the new Glenville when I was in the 10-A. So I went to the old Glenville from September to, I guess you’d say January. And then we went over to the new Glenville in January. So my class was the last to attend the old Glenville.
Julie Gabb [00:11:51] And what did the old Glenville look like compared to the new Glenville High School?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:11:56] The old one, it was just old and they had a basement and you had to go around the poles and it was, the basement was low and it was just an old building, and the new one was just such a wonderful, clean, new, refreshing, light bright building. The old one was just, it was old and dark, but it had a good soul, a good spirit, and it did.
Julie Gabb [00:12:26] So were there any school rivalries with Glenville High School?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:12:32] Well, we had rivalries with John F. Kennedy was one of the newer schools. Glenville, the new Glenville was made on the same model as John F. Kennedy, so there would be rivals against Glenville and John F. Kennedy. But as I’m thinking back, because John F. Kennedy opened, I think, in 1967, so there was a rivalry there, but we always had rivalries in track because Glenville had a good track team and good football.
Julie Gabb [00:13:05] Did you go to any of the track or football games?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:13:07] Always. Yes, we supported our teams and they were always well attended. We would always go to all the football games. We had night football games, which were fun. And after the night game, they would be at John Adams Field. And after the night game, you’d go out and maybe get hamburgers or go to manners, big boy, or somewhere. McDonald’s had just opened, and, and so we would go to McDonald’s, but it was a lot of fun to go. Or we’d have Saturday afternoon football games at Patrick Henry or evening basketball games or away games in southern Ohio. And we’d rent buses. They’d have buses, school would have buses. So our teams were very well supported.
Julie Gabb [00:13:54] Was there any memorable game you can recall within the sporting events?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:14:03] None that stick out. Every Thanksgiving, there was a game down at the Cleveland Stadium where the two football teams would play, and we would go every, it was Thanksgiving morning. We’d go every Thanksgiving morning to the charity game, it was called. And then that afternoon, come home and do Thanksgiving with your family. So charity games always stick out because we did that. That’s something we did every Thanksgiving.
Julie Gabb [00:14:27] What teams would be playing?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:14:29] Glenville never played much because we weren’t, I think, in the top. So you’d have maybe St. Ignatius or Collinwood or one of the other teams. I don’t remember Glenville being in the Charity Game.
Julie Gabb [00:14:42] You said earlier that you were homecoming queen. Can you tell me more about your experience with that?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:14:48] Oh, well, it was fun because it was just like, you see, we had to, we had signs and banners and vote for Margie and rally, and we’d have to go. Those girls who were running. We had to go before the student body in an assembly and give a speech, and the student body voted. And it was fun because I got to represent the school and all. And so during halftime at the homecoming game, we rode around in the car convertible waving, and came out on the field. We’re giving roses and stuff. It was fun. It was fun. I’ll always remember.
Julie Gabb [00:15:36] With Glenville High School, there was the team Tarblooders. What does a tarblooder mean?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:15:44] You know, I just learned maybe in the last ten years what a tarblooder is. And I understand that a tarblooder is someone who worked on the railroad, and the tar represents tar, and tar- Blood represents the tar, and blood represents the blood. So he was a little mechanical, something that worked on the railroad.
Julie Gabb [00:16:04] Okay.
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:16:05] I never knew that before, but this is what I’ve been told.
Julie Gabb [00:16:09] Do you think it encapsulates what Glenville High School is all about?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:16:14] Yes. Because in Glenville, we worked hard. We learned. I don’t think I could have gone to school anywhere and got a better education. And I’m saying that as an educator because we had an excellent, excellent education. School was fun. We wanted to go to school. The teachers cared about you. They were sincere. They went on and beyond the call of duty. And I’m going to give you an example. When I taught junior high school English in the South Bronx, New York, my English teacher, Mrs. Clemens, back at Glenville in the 12th grade, had taught us how to do term papers. She took us to the library, taught us how to do footnotes, how to write the form for writing the term papers, the whole thing. And we had to write term papers, turn them in as our final grade, in the 12th grade. So when I got to college, I knew how to do term papers and help people with their term papers because of something that I learned at Glenville. My professors in undergrad were amazed that I knew how to do this. And the reason I’m saying this is because, so when I got to teach the 7th grade English in the South Bronx, that was one of my ideas. And I patterned my teaching after the teaching of Mrs. Clemens, my high school English teacher. And so it was my idea that I wanted to teach my students how to do term papers. And I remember saying that in a staff meeting, and this is in 1972, and the staff looked at me and they’re like, you’re crazy. Forget it. They’re not going to be able to do this. So I said, okay. So I did everything the way Mrs. Clemens taught. Everything. And my students did term papers. And I came back to the staff meeting after they were all done, and I threw them on the table and said, now you see what can happen if you believe in your students? And it was because of her that I knew how to do it and I was courageous enough to know that if I taught my students properly as I was taught, that they would be able to do it too. So that was just, our teachers were wonderful, wonderful, wonderful teachers. I can’t trade the education we took. I started taking French in Miles Standish elementary school and on through Empire and on through Glenville. I even thought about being a french major at one time. But I learned to speak French. And we all, we read it, we spoke it. I remember reading the Count of Monte Cristo in French. So we, it was just a wonderful, wonderful education. And as an educator, now, looking back, I know really the value of that education. We got then.
Julie Gabb [00:18:58] What were some of the classes that you took at Glenville High School that you felt were valuable that I guess that you don’t see today?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:19:08] We took very extensive math. Our math went on up, I mean, I think I went up to trig or to the point where it was very, very advanced math. The classes I enjoyed, I was always into the arts, so I enjoyed our English classes. The science classes were very involved. Biology, we dissected animals. Chemistry, we did various chemistry projects. So our education was very hands on. And again, it was just. It was wonderful. It was wonderful. And again, the english classes that I took at Glenville, as well as throughout my elementary as well as junior high school, prepared me for English today or teaching it.
Julie Gabb [00:20:01] Did you go to any field trips while you were in Glenville High School?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:20:06] Yes, we, well, I remember Empire of this, kind of we’re talking about Glenville, yes, we were in the travel club and we would go to Niagara Falls. I remember going to Detroit. I can’t really recall anymore, but I remember the travel club. We would go to Niagara Falls and other various, I think, Amish country. Those are the ones that stick out.
Julie Gabb [00:20:38] And so was it, I guess, with travel club. What were some of the differences that you seen compared to living in Glenville, traveling out?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:20:53] Well, I was fortunate that my parents, we would travel, but we had never been to Amish country. We had never been to, I don’t remember my family going to Niagara Falls. We would take trips to visit our relatives and all, but the travel club took us around. And we also were a part of a special project at John Carroll University when we were at Glenville. And it was an enrichment program of various high school students from around the city of Cleveland. And it was an enrichment program at John Carroll University. And that was very enlightening because I had never socialized with anybody or any other than the people in our neighborhood and that went to school with us. We knew people in different areas, but as a rule, to know other students that were from East Tech, East High, John Hay, John Adams, it was really an enrichment program, very enriching in many ways, also.
Julie Gabb [00:22:01] And in what ways, I guess?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:22:04] Well, again, you learned about people who lived in different areas of the city. As I said before, we were just Glenville. We hung out with our stoop friends in Glenville and all, and we would go to different areas of the city, but to actually meet people from different schools and become involved in them, we also joined the youth chapter of the urban league. We did travel extensively with them and go to different youth chapter urban League conferences through different cities. I remember going to Detroit. I remember we had one in Dayton, and I can’t remember the other ones. But we were very involved in those activities, too.
Julie Gabb [00:22:48] With the Glenville enrichment program, was that like college prep in any way?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:22:57] I wouldn’t say college prep, because I think I was, I might have been just a sophomore at Glenville, but it wasn’t college prep. It was just an enrichment program where we just worked in different areas just for students who were in enrichment in regular schools.
Julie Gabb [00:23:17] Earlier you were saying that you, like, went to different neighborhoods in Cleveland. What neighborhoods, I guess, did you see yourself frequenting?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:23:27] Well, we had friends and relatives and shakers and my parents, we would visit in Shaker, and that was primarily it. We did have relatives across in the John Adams area. We would go visit relatives, but then once we became active in the urban league program, then we interacted with different people from different schools. And so we would maybe go to parties over in their area or whatever. And these were, again, students from all high schools in the city. So that’s when I started, really, we started to branch out, like junior year, going to different places in different areas of the city, all over the city, as a matter of fact.
Julie Gabb [00:24:21] What was, I guess, the point? What was the goal of the Urban League with the youth chapter?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:24:24] The youth chapter of the Urban League, we marked the head chapter in that to bring about peace and to share with those people who are different from us. And as I said back then in 19, this was ’66, ’67, ’68 during that era, just to bring the civil rights movement to a forefront and be active as youth, to try to bring that dream that Martin Luther King had of us all living together and going to school together and living together, working together, just working on those goals of the urban league and to keep that, their goals and dreams alive as youth.
Julie Gabb [00:25:10] What inspired you to join the Urban League?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:25:12] I don’t know. I had a lot of friends who were, we were all a part of it, but it was just something that, in that time, that was necessary. I don’t know what drove me. Maybe because I grew up visiting my grandparents and living in Kentucky for a minute after my parents moved to Cleveland. But we lived in, my brother, sister, and I were in Kentucky for about a year. And to experience the civil rights, to experience having to sit in the back of the bus in my grandparents town, to experience white water fountain, colored water fountain, to experience that we couldn’t go to this section of the drive in. We had to sit in the back. And so I guess maybe that drove me, because again, I experienced nothing I read about, heard about what I experienced. So I guess that probably had a lot to do with it.
Julie Gabb [00:26:12] So leading into this, so did you personally encounter any racial tension?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:26:20] I did. I had a terrible experience. I think I was in my senior year, and some friends had come and picked me up one evening. It was April Fool’s day, and we were driving out to Euclid Beach from our home in Glenville to get candy kisses, and popcorn balls. And as we were on our way out there, a car started banging up next to the car that our friend was driving. My friend was driving. I was in the front seat. Another friend was in the front seat, and a girl and another friend, guy were in the back seat. And the car kept ramming up next to our car. Then eventually, they blocked our car off. And all of these guys get out and they’re yelling “n—–s.” And they’ve got pipes and sticks, and they’re trying to, the car is a convertible, but the top was up at the time, but they were beating the cloth of the top, and they broke out all the windows, and they were yelling “we hate niggers.” And then they were, then they, I don’t know what caused them to drive off, but they drove off. And my friend was, or my friend was able to get away. And I turned to look in the back, and the girl behind me in the back seat was full of blood. Some glass had cut her forehead. And we were able to drive off. And two, three of the people in the car went to Collinwood, and, no, all of them went to, three of them went to Collinwood, and two of them went to Glenville, myself and another guy. And when my friend who owned the car, who was the driver, got to school on Monday at Collinwood, there was a guy going around bragging what had happened, and he was in the same homeroom as my friend. So we were able to find out who did this. And when they were asked, they were saying that it was just an April fool joke. And the first set of niggers they saw, they were going to do this to them. So that was very traumatic. Very. I was 16 when this happened, and it was. I remember it like it was yesterday. But again, we were in the area, and during this was that civil rights turmoil, and we were just in the wrong place.
Julie Gabb [00:28:41] Did, did you, you said earlier you encountered discrimination also while you were in Virginia?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:28:48] Kentucky.
Julie Gabb [00:28:51] What were some of the extent of that?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:28:54] Oh, never any blatant- Never any blatant- Just, we knew. For example, I had an aunt who worked in a little restaurant. We couldn’t go in that restaurant. Black people weren’t allowed there. Or again, as I said, we had to ride the bus, we couldn’t ride the front or we couldn’t sit. There was a sign over the water fountains, colored and white, but never any blatant racism. My grandfather was very well respected in that town, and my father, my grandparents were. My father had taught school in that town, so I didn’t experience it in that. And that town was about 1500 people at the time, but never did I experience any blatant racism like that incident.
Julie Gabb [00:29:34] So it wasn’t until you would move to Cleveland that you experienced, like, the blatant racism?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:29:41] Yes.
Julie Gabb [00:29:42] Was there any, like, discrimination within the Glenville area?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:29:48] No, no, no. We had many businesses were owned by different ethnics up in the neighborhood and, no.
Julie Gabb [00:30:05] Did you know of anyone that experienced any, like, difficulties acquiring housing in Glenville?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:30:14] I can’t say no. No.
Julie Gabb [00:30:18] I guess also, what was like with the neighborhood that you were living in? What was like the racial makeup of it?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:30:25] When we initially moved in that neighborhood, there was still a large number of Caucasians still living in the neighborhood. And then as the time went on, it became predominantly Black.
Julie Gabb [00:30:47] Was there positive relations?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:30:50] Yes. Yes. Everybody got along. I don’t recall a place where we weren’t welcome. Any stores or establishments where we weren’t welcome, be it libraries, stores in the neighborhood, no.
Julie Gabb [00:31:15] What were some of the stores and shops that you frequented while you were in Glenville?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:31:19] There was a candy store called Mr. Williams, and that’s where everybody got their candy. And he sold hot dogs. And so sometimes we would go home for lunch when we attended Miles Standish Elementary and Empire Junior High school. But a lot of kids would go there and get their lunch. And then there was a Dippy Whip, which was the ice cream store on the corner. Mr. Williams sold ice cream and then they opened up a Dippy Whip. Now an Italian owner opened up that. And at first there was a little animosity because Mr. Williams was the king of the ice cream at that time. And so it was a little bit of animosity and a lot of kind of resentment of them being there and opening. They bought the corner store, little supermarket, from the gentleman who owned the cleaners and that store. So it was a little animosity when they first moved in the neighborhood. But we had all types of stores. We had, up on 105th Street, we had beauty salons. We had nice restaurants. We had barbecue restaurants. We had drugstores, bicycle shops, clothing stores, Miller, where you could buy, women wear their hats, florists. 105th Street was just- It was just- It was wonderful. It was a great area. Barber shops, as I said, beauty salons, drugstores. Some were Black-owned, some weren’t. But it was just- Cafe Tia Juana, where I remember my parents would go to get some, to see some wonderful entertainment. I think they’ve seen Billie Holiday. Different, prominent, well known artists would come there. So it was, 105th Street was a Mecca. It was a magic street.
Julie Gabb [00:33:14] What does the phrase Gold Coast mean to you now?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:33:20] I never knew again until I had grown up and moved away that Glenville was considered the Gold Coast. And from what I’ve heard, it was because of the beautiful homes there and I guess the affluent people who lived there at one time or whatever. But growing up, I never heard that phrase.
Julie Gabb [00:33:42] Earlier, you mentioned about barbecue places. What were your favorite barbecues?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:33:48] Scatters was on the corner of my street, so that was one of the favorites. That’s the one we went to all the time. And then other ones started opening up. But Scatters was the best. And then there was Dearing’s fried chicken, and they had the best chicken, and they had kind of a batter that they fried their chicken in. And then we had, Franklin’s ice cream store was on Superior and maybe 110th and Superior. My father and I used to go there on Sundays and have ice cream sundaes and say we were on a date. So it was a real nice ice cream parlor, old-fashioned ice cream parlor.
Julie Gabb [00:34:32] I’ve been hearing about Scatters from all the different interviews I’ve been conducting. What separated Scatters from the rest of them?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:34:40] Rest of the barbecue joints? Probably because he was right there in the neighborhood, and he was a magical figure. He was a magical figure. And what happened is the night he was killed in his restaurant, I had just been in there and ordered a barbecue dinner. And then I got a call that next morning that he had, someone had killed him in his restaurant. But it was, it was near our houses and it was near Glenville. I mean, it was in Glenville. It was near the school, but it was right at the corner of my street, so I don’t know. And they had a sauce that was so good. And they’d put their french fries in a brown paper bag and put the sauce on. The bag was all greasy. And the fries were greasy. But it was good. That was good. It was good.
Julie Gabb [00:35:25] Did you- Was there busing or was there walking?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:35:28] No, we walked. We walked to school. We walked to Miles Standish Elementary. We walked to Empire. Then we walked to the old Glenville. But once we moved to the new Glenville, we started taking the bus to school. Or then by that time, our parents let us drive. So, because it was a long way.
Julie Gabb [00:35:48] You mentioned that you went to Miles Standish. What were some of your memories at Miles Standish?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:35:56] My fondest memories of Miles Standish were being in the enrichment program and taking French. And we had a French teacher who would come, I think, every day or three days a week, and we would go upstairs in the teachers lounge and we would, we learned French and I learned fluent French from Miles Standish Elementary School to this day. So that was great.
Julie Gabb [00:36:24] Were you a part of the garden at Miles Standish?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:36:29] No, I didn’t have a garden because we would always go to Kentucky every summer, like the day school was out. The next day, my father and parents would, my parents would drive us to Kentucky. Do we never had a garden because we would be in Kentucky all the summer. But I always wanted one, but I just- We weren’t there to do it.
Julie Gabb [00:36:47] What were some of the other programs and classes at Miles Standish that you remember?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:36:54] We took folk dancing. I remember that. We did banking at Miles Standish every Friday. All the students had bank books from Central National bank. And on Fridays you would come with your bank book and there would be someone from the bank there, and you would make your deposit, your money or withdrawals, whatever you wanted to do. And this taught us the banking and saving money. And I was sharing this with a person in the bank the other day, and they couldn’t believe it. But that sticks out. Every Friday we had banking.
Julie Gabb [00:37:34] And what age were you at that time?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:37:36] What, I think it was the, let me see. Miles Standish was from the first to the sixth, so I think you had to be the fourth, fifth and sixth graders were the ones who could do banking. So that was something to look forward to. And we would always have a drive for, a blood drive every year for the red feather, it would be where you would have a blood drive or candy drive to support different charities and all but the banking sticks out. On Halloween, we would wear our costumes to school that afternoon after lunch, and we would parade around the schoolyard and everybody would see everybody with their costumes and all. So those kinds of things. But French is really what sticks out.
Julie Gabb [00:38:28] And at what age were you taught French?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:38:32] From the third grade. Third grade.
Julie Gabb [00:38:33] And how long did you go with French?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:38:36] On through Glenville, through the 12th grade. I took it from Miles Standish on through Glenville.
Julie Gabb [00:38:50] Going back, where did you do your clothing shopping at?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:38:57] We would go to Severance shopping or downtown. Higbee’s, Sterling Lindner, Best Company. I remember up Fairmount, Franklin Simon on Shaker Square. Downtown had so many nice stores that you would do a lot of your shopping downtown. And then later, when Severance Center opened, we would go to Severance.
Julie Gabb [00:39:24] What was your favorite place to go out of them all?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:39:25] At Severance?
Julie Gabb [00:39:29] I guess when it comes to, like, overall, whether it’s downtown or something?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:39:41] I’d like going downtown. Downtown was fun. There were so many stores, and around the Christmas holidays and the decorations and Higbee’s was all lit up, all the stores with their Christmas displays in the window. And it was just a magical time during that time to go. And I remember my girlfriend and I would go shopping in Higbee’s and the Twigby shop, and it was the shop for the little kids to go in, and you’d have your money, and the elves would help you, and you’d tell them you had whatever amount of money, and they would help you choose your gifts and all. And my girlfriend and I used to do that. I think we did it till we were almost as big as the elves, but still we enjoyed it. So that was always fun. Shopping downtown during Christmas was always fun.
Julie Gabb [00:40:27] What would be some things you could get at Twigby’s.
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:40:32] You could get hankies or socks or a tie or a wallet for your mother or some earrings or something for your sister or brother, and they would have different ideas for you. And the little elves would look at your list and see what you want so it was real cute.
Julie Gabb [00:40:56] You mentioned earlier about Cafe Tia Juana. Can you describe what it was like?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:41:04] No, because I never went. I was a little girl, but I just remember people talking, parents and relatives, and they come to town, and my parents would take them, but they would, I never went there. I was a little girl, but it was, you would hear about a lot of big-time jazz performers appearing there.
Julie Gabb [00:41:26] Did you ever go to Leo’s Casino?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:41:28] Oh, yes. Many times. I went as a little girl on Sunday, they would have a kiddie matinee. So you could put a lei around your neck, a Hawaiian lei, and you could go and they would serve kiddie cocktails, and you could see performers, and I saw everybody. Marvin Gaye, the Supremes, Dionne Warwick. I could go on and on and on, but many times. And then when I got older, I was able to go during the regular times, but Sunday matinee, kiddie Matinee was always fun. And I got a chance, my girlfriends and I, one time, to meet Marvin Gaye at the kiddie matinee. And it was just, oh, we were at Empire at that time, so we went back to school the next. They just on cloud nine. It was good. It was good. Leo’s was special. You could see the Motown acts because it was so close to Cleveland. It was a two and a half, three hour drive, so I got to see. And Motown was happening at that time, so it was wonderful.
Julie Gabb [00:42:30] What were some of the kiddie cocktails you could get?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:42:33] I don’t know what was in a kiddie cocktail, I just would order it a kiddie cocktail. And it was punch with a little umbrella and all. So we were in the nightclub.
Julie Gabb [00:42:44] Well, did like Leo’s casino, like change the interior for that?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:42:50] No, no, it was just like the real club, except we didn’t serve drinks. They didn’t serve drinks. And we saw the same show everybody else did, and it was on Sunday afternoon.
Julie Gabb [00:43:06] Did you ever go to any other concerts, like any other venues?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:43:11] We would always, Glenville, every year we would go to Severance Hall, to the concert series there. I think we may go twice a year to Severance Hall. And then we did a lot of the. Again, the recreational activities, but we would always go, museums as class field trips. Yes.
Julie Gabb [00:43:36] What were your thoughts about University Circle when you were growing up?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:43:44] There was a bad experience, again, dating back to the civil rights era. There was a gentleman who lived on down the street from us, and they were protesting somewhere right there around, I can’t remember the name of the church, and there was a protest and. No, no, I changed it. I’m sorry. There was a folk singer who lived down the street from me, and he was driving through Murray Hill and he was killed. And again, so that was a bad, during that time, and some people still have reservations about Little Italy because of that. So again, it was kind of off limits because of what had happened to this, he was a folk singer, lived doors from my family, so it’s kind of off limits.
Julie Gabb [00:44:33] So when would you go to University Circle?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:44:36] Well, we would go- We wouldn’t do Little Italy, but we would go to various Severance Hall and so forth for various concerts.
Julie Gabb [00:44:46] You mentioned earlier about that you did a lot of recreational activities. What were some of the ones that you did and where at?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:44:54] We would go swimming at Fairfax on Friday evenings. My father was very active at Forest City Tennis Club, so we played tennis right there at Forest City. We were active in the playgrounds in the neighborhood. So we would be involved in various Olympics, the junior Olympics activities. I never really was a participant, but we would be involved in it, supporting those in the neighborhood who were our age who were participating in it. So we did a lot of athletic activities also.
Julie Gabb [00:45:31] Did you ever go to the Pla-Mor at all?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:45:34] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was a staple Saturday, Saturday mornings Pla-Mor. Yes, yes, yes.
Julie Gabb [00:45:42] And what sort of skating did they have there?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:45:46] Roller, fast roller skating. Then they would have a, I think the kiddie hour was from ten to twelve, and then the afternoon, and then they’d have night skates and so forth. And that was out of our neighborhood. So that was once that we, I mean, many times we would venture to the Pla-Mor skating. I forgot about the Pla-Mor.
Julie Gabb [00:46:05] Were people ever, like, dress up or anything, to go to the Pla-Mor?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:46:12] I wouldn’t say dress up, but people were always very well dressed in that day. People dressed to the best that they could in that day, so I can’t say they dressed up, but people were very well dressed.
Julie Gabb [00:46:30] Did you go to church at all?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:46:32] Yes, I went to St. Philip Neri Catholic Church. And that’s on St. Clair and about 80 and 80ish? I’m not sure, but, yes, that’s the church we attended.
Julie Gabb [00:46:43] Were there any events or memories that you have of St. Philip’s?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:46:50] Yes, it was a mixed congregation, and we would have, I remember Easter egg hunts, but we didn’t do a lot of the activities at the church. Not a lot of them, no.
Julie Gabb [00:47:08] Did you go to any other churches for events at all?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:47:13] If my friends’ churches would have something, I would go with them. I had a girlfriend who went to Antioch, so I would go to Antioch with her. But that’s the only time.
Julie Gabb [00:47:29] In the sixties when there was, like, the Glenville plan, what were your family’s thoughts on it?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:47:36] The Glenville plan?
Julie Gabb [00:47:39] Like the neighborhood, sort, of like revitalization, like maintaining-
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:47:43] My father was very active in the street club, he was street club president for years and very instrumental in the pavement of the tennis courts now over at Rockefeller. And he worked with getting, for example, four-way stop signs on our street and stuff. So I found him to be very active in the revitalization of the Glenville area. And as I said, my family was there from 1954 back, I mean, up until 1991, ’92. So we lived there a long time. That was home for many years.
Julie Gabb [00:48:25] Did you know of any people that, like, had issues with, like, the zoning issues with houses, duplexes and stuff like that?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:48:33] No. No.
Julie Gabb [00:48:37] You mentioned earlier about, like, street clubs and all. Like, were there were like, the different street clubs for, was it by the street?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:48:44] Yes, by the street. Mm hmm. So we lived on Columbia Avenue. So Columbia Avenue would have a street club and different streets would have their own street clubs.
Julie Gabb [00:48:56] What were some of the things that the street club would do?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:48:58] Well, the street club would just make sure the street was maintained, and then we would have block parties and be involved with the politicians of the area and so forth and so on, whoever your councilman was. So the street club would report directly to the councilmen if there were any problems or issues on the street or any concerns they had.
Julie Gabb [00:49:25] Are there still street clubs today?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:49:27] I think they call them watch clubs or something like that, but I think they do exist. Yes, they do, in that area.
Julie Gabb [00:49:50] Did you see, like, Malcolm X at all when he came to…
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:49:54] No, I didn’t see Malcolm X when he came. He spoke at Cory Methodist Church, but no, I didn’t get a chance to see him. I did get a chance when Robert Kennedy was here and spoke down at Public Square. And this was my senior year in June. I mean, this was maybe just, he was killed in the beginning of June, so maybe this was the end of May, and he spoke down at Public square, so I got a chance to see him and Malcolm X.
Julie Gabb [00:50:27] What were the memories that you had, like, when seeing Robert Kennedy talk?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:50:32] It was right after Martin Luther King had been killed, and I really think the death of John F. Kennedy, and I remember it so vividly, I was in Empire going to algebra class, and one of the kids that lived down the street from my family was going through the hall saying they just killed the president and our algebra teacher, taking us in class and telling us what had happened and dismissing us. It was a Friday afternoon, dismissing us. And I think from that moment on, I had a vested interest in the country, because I was so concerned that how could the president be killed? So then when his brother was running for president, it was just something. And Martin Luther King, again, had just been killed, and this was just something that I thought would be the best for our country in 1968. And as I said earlier, I remember coming home from my high school picnic and my parents watching his funeral on TV. So all of this just kind of brought about an interest to me. And the only time I ever cut school was that time to go see Robert Kennedy. And my father told me, don’t go because of what had been happening. And I cut school that one time to go.
Julie Gabb [00:51:55] Um, was there, like, with all the people, I mean, with, like, Robert Kennedy speaking, were there other, like, classmates of yours that just…
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:52:04] Oh, yes, a bunch of us. A bunch of us when we were seniors, and it was the end of May, so all our grades were in and everything. It was just, but I just disobeyed my father, and that was the one time, but I wanted to be there. That was history. But he was concerned about, you know, my safety. But I was okay.
Julie Gabb [00:52:25] Would you ever go anywhere with your parents at all, like, around Cleveland?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:52:31] Oh, yes. We would go out to eat. We would go to various concerts. My father was a season ticket holder for the Browns game, so we would go to various venues around the city.
Julie Gabb [00:52:49] What’s like a landmark that’s not here anymore that you miss the most?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:52:54] We would go to the Forum to eat, which was on 9th and maybe between Euclid and Prospect. I missed Franklin’s ice cream. That was a nice place growing up. We went to Scatters, Dearing’s barbecue, the Pla-Mor. Just those places that were just such a part of our lives. And we would be out all day, evening. House rules, though, you had to be home when the streetlights came on in the summertime, but it was a very safe neighborhood. Nobody bothered anybody. We never locked our doors. Our mother would be in the house, or we’d be in the house with the doors unlocked. At night we would. But during the day when we’d be in school, we didn’t have keys. The door would be unlocked. We’d come home.
Julie Gabb [00:53:48] What were some changes that you noticed from Glenville then versus now?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:53:58] I think, I think the biggest change is when people moved away and are now renting, and those people who are renting aren’t taking an interest in the homes like the owners did back in the day. We, everybody, you know, people owned their homes, or maybe some didn’t rent, I don’t know. But people took pride in their homes, and I, I think it’s just a sign of the times that all the inner cities are following the same place. The stores are gone. They have storefronts. Those people who did own the homes are either dead or decided to move away or close them up. So I think the biggest change is just the housing situation there.
Julie Gabb [00:54:47] Did you also, do you see a change at all in community involvement?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:54:52] There’s still people who are involved, because I do know people who still live in the area who are involved, and those who are involved. But again, I think it’s just a sign at the times, if you don’t own it and it’s not yours, then you’re not going to really take such a vested interest as those who would. But for those who are still in the neighborhood, I applaud them because they are really involved.
Julie Gabb [00:55:15] Is there any differences in safety or anything like that?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:55:19] Oh, yeah. It’s not, but again, it’s where are we safe? In any part of the city. But I think the crime is higher there. In the old neighborhood, yeah.
Julie Gabb [00:55:40] Do you have any, like, last minute, I mean, any last things to say about Glenville?
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:55:47] Glenville was, I couldn’t, I couldn’t imagine growing up, in retrospect, as an adult, growing up anywhere else. It was just, it was, we were, I talked to friends who grew up with me, and we talk about what a wonderful childhood we had. And it was just, people can’t believe when I meet people from different cities or different walks of life, how close many of us still are and the relationships that we had and our families had. And it was just, I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world. The education, the friendships, the families. It was just a wonderful place to live. And I’m just so glad that I was able to live there and experience what I did because it just made me just such a better person, and it prepared me for life in the real world growing up, as we did with the different people from different walks of life. So I learned that it takes a village. And that was a village.
Julie Gabb [00:56:51] Well, thank you for the interview, I really appreciate it.
Marjorie Pyles-Hearst [00:55:51] You’re more than welcome.
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