Diana Cyganovich, the current Executive Director of Cogswell Hall and resident of the Detroit Shoreway neighborhood, provides a well-rounded portrait of one of Cleveland's west side communities. After moving to Cleveland in the late-1970s, Cyganovich expresses the challenges and improvements she has observed take place in the area over the past thirty plus years.


Cyganovich, Diana (interviewee)


Nemeth, Sarah (interviewer)


Detroit Shoreway



Document Type

Oral History


68 minutes


Sarah Nemeth [00:00:02] Hi, my name is Sarah Nemeth. I'm here today with Diana Cyganovich for the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project. It is June 21, 2017, and we're at Cogswell Hall. Could you please state your name for the record?

Diana Cyganovich [00:00:16] Diana Cyganovich.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:18] Thank you. And where were you born?

Diana Cyganovich [00:00:21] I was born in Johnson City, New York, which is in the Finger Lakes, Finger Lakes region of New York, near Ithaca, where Cornell University is. So, I grew up in that area.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:35] And when was that?

Diana Cyganovich [00:00:37] I was born in January 9th of 1953.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:42] Oh, well that's almost my birthday. I'm January 4th. And then you went to college in.

Diana Cyganovich [00:00:52] I went to college for one year at Hartwick College in Oneonta, New York. And I graduated and then I transferred to State University of New York at Albany and I graduated from there in 1975.

Sarah Nemeth [00:01:07] Okay, and what did you major in?

Diana Cyganovich [00:01:09] Political science and social work.

Sarah Nemeth [00:01:12] And from there then you. Did you move here or did you stay?

Diana Cyganovich [00:01:19] So from there, I spent one year after college working in Tioga County Department of Jobs and Family Services. I think it was called the Child Welfare Department at that time, I was working with children. And then I moved to Cleveland to go to graduate school. But before I started at Case, I had a year at Cuyahoga County Department of Human Services here working in Children's Services. And then I did a joint program at Case that was a master's in social service administration and a Juris Doctorate law degree.

Sarah Nemeth [00:02:02] Okay, what made you move to Cleveland?

Diana Cyganovich [00:02:05] Well, mostly to go to graduate school. I thought maybe I'd come here to graduate school and maybe move back to New York, but I never got out of town.

Sarah Nemeth [00:02:13] So, what made you stay?

Diana Cyganovich [00:02:15] Well, my first job after graduate school was actually a legal job here in town. And so I passed the bar exam here. I thought hard about going back to New York and trying that bar exam and then said, well, I've got a job here. I'll stay here for a while and see what happens.

Sarah Nemeth [00:02:31] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:02:33] And then I met my husband and decided to stay, marry him, and stay here.

Sarah Nemeth [00:02:38] Okay, but when you were going to graduate school, what year was that?

Diana Cyganovich [00:02:45] Well, you're making me think. Let's see. I graduated in January of 1981, and it was three and a half years. So, I started in the fall of 1977. Yes.

Sarah Nemeth [00:03:01] 1977.

Diana Cyganovich [00:03:03] Yes.

Sarah Nemeth [00:03:03] So, that's when you moved to Cleveland, as well?

Diana Cyganovich [00:03:05] I moved to Cleveland in 1976, so I had a year working before I started graduate school.

Sarah Nemeth [00:03:11] And where did. What side of town did you live on when you first moved?

Diana Cyganovich [00:03:15] I like the way we say that in Cleveland. What side of town?

Sarah Nemeth [00:03:18] Yeah.

Diana Cyganovich [00:03:19] So when I first moved to Cleveland, my I stayed temporarily with my mom's cousin in Brook Park and started looking for housing. And I found housing in Lakewood. So I stayed in Lakewood for the most of the first year. I was here, but while I was working at Children's Services. I found an apartment in Cleveland Heights with a roommate from Children's Services. And that was closer to Case Western Reserve University. So I stayed in Cleveland Heights and I lived in Cleveland Heights until I was married in 1985 and then moved to the west side of Cleveland into the Detroit Shoreway neighborhood. My husband and I lived in an apartment and then in September of 1987, we purchased our house here on Franklin Boulevard and we've lived here ever since.

Sarah Nemeth [00:04:09] Wonderful. What were your first impressions of Cleveland?

Diana Cyganovich [00:04:11] That's hard to remember. I guess because I was I was what 23, single, and my job was with a lot of other young single people. That for me, the first part of Cleveland was just a lot of fun because there were people to get to know right away. There were things to do. There were like like a lot of fun stuff. So in that way, it was very easy for me. I think some people that move, you know, sometimes if you don't find a group of people. So I found Cleveland to be a delightful place to live, and have just over time have just found that, you know, so many people don't understand just how great it is here.

Sarah Nemeth [00:05:00] Right. It definitely gets a bad rap sometimes.

Diana Cyganovich [00:05:01] It does. And I distinctly remember when I would. Early on, when I would go home and visit my parents and see other relatives. Everybody would say, oh, you're living in Cincinnati. Oh, you're living in Chicago. Nobody could remember I lived in Cleveland. I had to keep reminding them I lived in Cleveland. So, that was kind of funny.

Sarah Nemeth [00:05:21] So when you moved you, you mentioned that you had a lot of. You did a lot of fun things with other people. Do you remember any of those fun things or places that you went, maybe?

Diana Cyganovich [00:05:30] Well, one of the things that happened is in that first year when I found somebody from Children's Services who became my roommate. She was dating a man who had a boat, a cabin cruiser. He had inherited it from his dad, who sadly had died fairly young. And so we spent a lot of time at the yacht club on the boat. And so it was just a lot of fun. So it really is probably what kept me fairly sane during graduate school was to sort of have this outlet with people who had nothing to do with graduate school that were just a group of people you could go on the weekends or whatever and have a good time. I have a real funny boat story. Can I tell a really funny.

Sarah Nemeth [00:06:14] Yes, tell me the story.

Diana Cyganovich [00:06:15] One of the funny stories is. One of the times there was a group of us. I think there were five or six of us that decided we were going to go from the Eastlake Yacht Club to Put-in-Bay for the weekend. And so we get in the boat and we're traveling and traveling and traveling. And the next thing we know, we know where we're out of sight of land. Next thing we know, we start seeing more boats. And so we're thinking maybe this isn't quite the lane we should be in. Keep going and going and going. And finally, we see land not on our left, but on our right. And we're heading west on Lake Erie. So we're like, where are we? The compass is telling us we are in one place, but we're obviously someplace else. So one of the guys on the boat gets at the front of the boat as we're pulling into the harbor. And he yells out. Can you tell us where we are? And the person yells back Wheatley. He says Wheatley, What? Wheatley, Ontario. So we've actually got to cross the lake instead of down the side of the lake to Put-in-Bay. And so we were we ended up getting to getting some consulting with some of the fishermen from that harbor to make sure we could safely get the boat where we needed to go. We ended up spending a night on Pelee Island with the boat and then ending up in Put-in-Bay. But it's just I just thought it was the funniest thing. And, you know, it's all because the compass was off.

Sarah Nemeth [00:07:39] The compass. That is funny.

Diana Cyganovich [00:07:44] And hopefully, hopefully, if any of the people that were on that boat hear this story they will laugh again.

Sarah Nemeth [00:07:48] Believe me, that would make me very nervous to be out and about but it is all about having a good time.

Diana Cyganovich [00:07:55] Having a good time and it all turned out well. So it was a good time.

Sarah Nemeth [00:07:58] So you spend a lot of time on the lake. Was there any. Like you're in graduate school, was there a restaurant that everyone went and hung out at or bar or something I don't know.

Diana Cyganovich [00:08:09] No, not really. I mean, I was living in Cleveland Heights right on Coventry. So there was a lot of activity there. It was a time when Coventry was kind of like the Haight-Ashbury of Cleveland. So there was, you know, coffee shop and there was some bars there. Got involved some with the Heights' Dems in Cleveland Heights. The Democratic Party, there was part of the Coventry Street Fairs that they used to have that was like a weekend-long street fair, that type of thing. So it was just a lot of different things. It wasn't one thing in particular.

Sarah Nemeth [00:08:44] What did they do at the Coventry Street Fairs?

Diana Cyganovich [00:08:47] Oh, gosh. It was a two-day music and arts. There was a lot of vendors. So it's kind of like I guess today I would equate would be similar to the one day that they do the Clifton Arts & Music Festival. It would be something similar to that. But it was usually a two-day event. I can't remember if it went from Friday night to Sunday or if it was just Friday night and all day Saturday. I think it was Friday night to Sunday, but it was a kind of a big thing that people would come to from all over.

Sarah Nemeth [00:09:20] And they don't do that anymore?

Diana Cyganovich [00:09:20] No, they do. I think what they do now and this is where I'm just like, you know, I don't live in Cleveland Heights anymore.

Sarah Nemeth [00:09:26] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:09:27] But no, I think what they do is the least a few summers. They've had an evening, a couple of evenings, like one a month for a while where they were having more like a market and some arts and crafts stuff and artisans and music. So it went from like a weekend thing to maybe once a month, but for three or three or four times during the summer.

Sarah Nemeth [00:09:50] And you were involved with planning or did you just attend?

Diana Cyganovich [00:09:56] When it was the weekend thing and when I was living in Cleveland Heights, I was part of the planning.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:00] And what was the purpose? Was it to?

Diana Cyganovich [00:10:01] Just to bring people and bring the community together and just highlight, you know, Cleveland Heights and the Coventry area and help artists sell their wares. And people have a good time.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:12] Was there divisions? Like socio-economic divisions or race divisions in that country at that time?

Diana Cyganovich [00:10:18] It was pretty... I remember that area being fairly integrated. I mean, there there certainly were some differences, but I think that it was a fairly integrated area. The street fair was fairly integrated. I mean, Cleveland Heights was pretty much moving into a pretty integrated community. So, yeah. I mean, sure, there was a socio-economic differences. You know, because you do have that. But I thought there was... I think it was a lot of diversity involved.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:53] Okay. Someone once told me that there was like on one part of the street, there was the multi-family dwellings, and then on the other side, there's the bigger mansions and houses. And when those people came together, sometimes there was some sort of a clash. I didn't know if you noticed that at all?

Diana Cyganovich [00:11:12] You know, I don't know if it was I was young and fairly naive about such things, not having come from Cleveland, not having been here through all the racial tension.

Sarah Nemeth [00:11:23] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:11:23] But I didn't find that there was that much of there was a clash. Certainly, there were middle-class, single-family homes. There were lots of apartment buildings with multi-family dwellings and there were mansions. And they're all kind of in the same, you know, twenty-block area or something. So, certainly there were differences. I never saw anything that comes to mind that would have said to me that it was a very tense kind of environment.

Sarah Nemeth [00:11:53] Or an issue.

Diana Cyganovich [00:11:53] Or a major issue. And I'm sure there were issues.

Sarah Nemeth [00:11:57] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:11:57] You know. I mean. Later. I am going to jump ahead on you. Later, later in my life, after I had practiced law, I went into nonprofit work and I was working in the field of domestic violence. And one of the things that I did was work with a lot of the police departments around the county on working, understanding the dynamics of domestic violence better, and also kind of working them out with them on policies and things and also supporting victims of domestic violence when they had to go through the court system. And one of the things I did notice is it struck me one day that in Cleveland Heights that considering the population was a very mixed population, I did see a difference. When you were talking who was arrested? You know, kind of thing. So, I mean, I know that there was, you know, and I did pick up on some tensions at that time, but I wouldn't say it was that it did. It defined the community. I wouldn't say that.

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:02] That makes sense. Who was arrested more?

Diana Cyganovich [00:13:07] Probably minorities or people in interracial marriages.

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:11] Really?

Diana Cyganovich [00:13:12] It was. Yeah. It was an observation I made.

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:16] Interesting.

Diana Cyganovich [00:13:16] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:18] I mean. Unfortunately, I could guess minorities, but I would never have put an interracial.

Diana Cyganovich [00:13:22] Interracial couples. And what I know about domestic violence it does not happen any more often in minorities or interracial couples. It happens across the board in all segments of our society. So, it was interesting who I saw in court.

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:39] Interesting. So you get married?

Diana Cyganovich [00:13:42] Yes. I got married and.

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:43] Where did you meet him at?

Diana Cyganovich [00:13:46] Well, that's a funny story, too.

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:48] Okay!

Diana Cyganovich [00:13:48] And we'll tell this one, even though it's kind of a personal little story. I was dating his best friend. We broke up. David stayed around and a friendship grew into a loving relationship. And it's been wonderful. We've been married 32 years. It will be 32 years June 29th this year.

Sarah Nemeth [00:14:09] Congratulations.

Diana Cyganovich [00:14:09] And it's great. So, I mean, that's that's how I met him.

Sarah Nemeth [00:14:14] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:14:14] I mean, it was just kind of a fluky thing. But it was.

Sarah Nemeth [00:14:18] The best things happen that way.

Diana Cyganovich [00:14:19] They do. They do. The best things do happen that way, you know. So he he always claims it's because that I went to a wedding of a mutual friend of Tom and Dave. And Tom wouldn't dance with me and Dave did. And he was he always pins it to that. And I'm not sure it was exactly that moment, but that was kind of the gist of it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:14:42] What made you decide to move to Detroit Shoreway?

Diana Cyganovich [00:14:45] David. David actually was living in an up-and-down, a half a house that was owned by Cornucopia, which is an organization that ran the Bin. And then Nature's Bin on Sloane Avenue that recently closed. And so they were an organization that worked with people with intellectual and other developmental disabilities. And they had this grocery store for training for people to learn to be and other to be employed in other grocery stores. And many did go when they used to have baggers at grocery stores regularly. Many of these people ended up being baggers at grocery stores. And David was involved with the organization and lived in one of their houses. They had two doubles and one single. And so we lived in one of the apartments and he was kind of the maintenance manager kind of thing for the to do the minor maintenance stuff and things like that for the apartments. So that's why we ended up living there. And then we when they were selling those houses, we started looking for a house and we happened to find one here on Franklin Boulevard, partly because we had friends that lived on the street and they knew of a house that was going to be going on the market, but it hadn't gone on the market yet. So we were able to talk to the owner. You know, it took us four months to see the house. When I got in, I realized partly because the kitchen counters were in and the frames were in, but there weren't cupboard doors. He probably had the kitchen gutted or something. He didn't want to show the house. That's what I figured probably happened. Why it took so long. But as soon as I walked in, I said, this is a great house because it has a lot of the natural woodwork left, left. And I grew up in a family where my dad worked, worked in hardwoods and had a business that was called a dimension plant, which is a company. Kind of business that does takes the raw lumber from the sawmill and cuts it into stated dimensions from furniture companies and then glues all the pieces together, so when you look at a piece of furniture and you see those different pieces of wood that would have been produced in a company like my dad had with his.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:08] Oh, okay.

Diana Cyganovich [00:17:08] Two uncles, there was a family business. And so I always loved woods and woodworking and, you know, that kind of thing. So this house had a lot of the natural wood still. Nobody had ever painted it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:19] Oh, that's nice.

Diana Cyganovich [00:17:19] Nobody had ever tried to do anything bad to it wasn't damaged. And so that, to me is what kind of sold me on the house for myself. So we were put in a bid and we got the house. And and we've lived here ever since. And it's been so we've had been in the house almost 30 years.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:35] Okay, that's exciting to walk into a house and see everything the wood.

Diana Cyganovich [00:17:39] Yeah, it's great. It's wonderful.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:46] I hate when they put the lacquer paint...

Diana Cyganovich [00:17:47] Yes. Yes. Try to paint things. Yes. I'm not into that.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:50] It takes a long time to try to get it off.

Diana Cyganovich [00:17:51] It doesn't come off.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:52] Right. Never.

Diana Cyganovich [00:17:55] Never quite comes off.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:56] Right. I've never heard about this greenhouse that your husband had worked at previously.

Diana Cyganovich [00:18:04] It's not a greenhouse. It was a grocery store.

Sarah Nemeth [00:18:06] Grocery store. Okay. I thought you... heard in my head, I thought it was a greenhouse.

Diana Cyganovich [00:18:10] That was. It was actually a produce they they started with. The Bin was a produce market in Birdtown in Lakewood, right on Madison. And then they became more of a health food grocery store when they moved over to Sloane Avenue in Lakewood.

Sarah Nemeth [00:18:24] Okay, so Lakewood's Sloane Avenue and there was a grocery store. And it worked with a.

Diana Cyganovich [00:18:33] Well, they had already... They had already... They still had a training program and they still have a training program for people with disabilities to become trained to do some kind of job that is in the grocery kind of industry somewhere.

Sarah Nemeth [00:18:48] Okay.

Diana Cyganovich [00:18:48] Or or some kind of retail, because it's kind of transferable skills to maybe some other kind of retail.

Sarah Nemeth [00:18:55] Okay.

Diana Cyganovich [00:18:55] And I think they still have a training program in the catering, but they had to Whole Foods put them out of business.

Sarah Nemeth [00:19:05] Of course.

Diana Cyganovich [00:19:05] You know, the bigger ones come in and none of the smaller ones can make it kind of thing.

Sarah Nemeth [00:19:09] Well, that's interesting. I didn't know that far back the people were focused on Whole Foods.

Diana Cyganovich [00:19:15] Yes.

Sarah Nemeth [00:19:16] In my mind, it is just like a more recent thing.

Diana Cyganovich [00:19:18] Well, you know, all their stuff wasn't necessarily organic to begin with because there wasn't really that much in terms of organic farmers back in the 1970s and or what was called organic farming. Of course, probably a lot of small farmers did do organic farming, but it was never really labeled. No, it was more of just what they were trying to have healthy foods in a neighborhood and a training program for people. So it was kind of a good combination of the two things.

Sarah Nemeth [00:19:52] Okay. So you move here in 1985 and what are your first impressions of Detroit Shoreway?

Diana Cyganovich [00:19:59] It was kind of mixed at the time. That on the. We lived on 58th West 58th north of Detroit. Two examples of how the neighborhood was kind of mixed. Where Spice Kitchen is right now on the corner of 58th and Detroit with Myron's Bar, Myron's Bar was the old neighborhood bar for the working folk and at seven o'clock in the morning you could walk by Myron's Bar and there'd be a people bunch of people sitting at the bar. Coming off third shift. So that's when they would go to the bar. So it was open from like, I don't know, 6:00 in the morning till 2:00 in the morning I don't know.

Sarah Nemeth [00:20:41] Oh, geez.

Diana Cyganovich [00:20:42] So that was one thing you know, the other thing was. It just was. Well, it's just a mix. It was a mix. And actually, when we bought our house in 87 here on Franklin and one of the things I said to my husband was this is either the best decision we've ever made or it's not going to be a good decision, because at that point, the neighborhood still most homes were very low cost. There was. It was a question of what direction it was going in. I think the Gordon Square Arcade had already been really kind of renovated, maybe for maybe less than 10 years. And the Detroit Shoreway Community Development Organization was relatively young. All of those things I didn't really know then. I know the history more now. So it was kind of a very much a mixed lower working class to some middle income neighborhood. And so it was just kind of a question. It was just a little different. I never felt unsafe walking or anything like that. I didn't, you know, feel that. But it was definitely, definitely today. There's a lot there's people with more resources living in the neighborhood, in the immediate neighborhood than there was at that time.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:04] The bar that you had mentioned, where did they work? The factory. Where were the factories?

Diana Cyganovich [00:22:11] I actually don't know.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:12] You don't know?

Diana Cyganovich [00:22:13] I don't know. There was a lot of small manufacturing around here, though.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:15] Okay.

Diana Cyganovich [00:22:15] There was there, and there's very little of it left. If you drive around and go off on some of the side streets and stuff, you'll see small brick buildings. There was a lot more going on. What is now Battery Park? What is now The Edison, which is the newer apartment complex north by the railroad tracks over overlooking the lake and Edgewater Park. There were those were all those were all factory buildings. So when I moved here, it wasn't like all the factories were up and running because I think it early changed some, but there still was a lot of small manufacturing of different types going on around the neighborhood.

Sarah Nemeth [00:23:02] What were the demographics that you observed in the neighborhood?

Diana Cyganovich [00:23:07] Very mixed. Yeah, I would say socio-economic there was a mix. There was a mix in terms of culture and race. It may have been. Well, I think there's a lot of things that happened. '70s, '80s in terms of there were a lot of folks from Cambodia and Vietnam that were moving to the neighborhood. Then the next influx, I think, was from Africa, you know. So we've had immigrants, refugees kind of come to the neighborhood. There's been it's kind of a you know, it's still it's very mixed. You know, one of the things they did a lot of busing in Cleveland, and I don't know a lot about it because I wasn't here when they started busing, but they did a lot of busing in Cleveland to kind of mix races and cultures and things like that. And I kept thinking, this neighborhood, we are just already so mixed that if everybody went to the same school, you would have the mix you wanted.

Sarah Nemeth [00:24:11] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:24:11] You know. So my observation is, although I think some that some of its pockets, you know, there may be a pocket that's more Hispanic. There may be a pocket that's more Asian or a pocket that's more African or a pocket that's more Caucasian, European. But they're all all those all the cultures are around, you know. And another one would be the Arabic folks in the Middle East with Arabic history or foreign culture. So, you know, it really is a mix.

Sarah Nemeth [00:24:48] Okay, but there are pockets. That was one of my next divisions if there is

Diana Cyganovich [00:24:52] It's somewhat pocketed. But I mean, it was always pocketed. I mean, I think when it was this area was first settled, you had the Irish community, you had the Italian community. I mean, north of Detroit, there's still a core Italian community around between, you know, 58th and 75th or something. You know, around in that area, 70th. You know, there is a whole pocket that was Irish. There was a whole pocket that was German, you know. So we always had pockets of people because people would come and they would stay with people that were from their same background.

Sarah Nemeth [00:25:28] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:25:28] You know, and we still have that. It's just that it's it's different groups, you know, and the pockets, I don't think are as big, you know.

Sarah Nemeth [00:25:37] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:25:38] And there's a lot more mixing, you know, on, you know, different streets. We're we're yeah, maybe there's quite a few Hispanic people that buy in the same neighborhood. Just like when David and I bought our house, there were a number of other people we knew from some groups we were in that they were white Europeans that bought in the neighborhood. But it's not... It's not absolute.

Sarah Nemeth [00:26:02] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:26:02] You know, you know you have the Hispanic folks living next to the non-Hispanic folks and, you know, blacks and whites. And yet, yes, it really is a mix.

Sarah Nemeth [00:26:17] So when you first moved here, what were, were the European maybe ethnic enclaves more were they, had they moved out by then?

Diana Cyganovich [00:26:30] Quite. Quite a few had moved out, quite a few had moved out. There still were people in the neighborhood. There was a whole Romanian group that was here at one time and many of them had moved as the kids got older. I mean, the grandparents probably still were around. I think quite a few of the people that from Italian ancestry have stayed. But that's changed, too. Yeah. Yeah. People moved. People moved around. I think at that time it wasn't so much people moving into the city as it is today. People were moving out of the city. So as folks, the next generation grew, they went elsewhere for job opportunities and elsewhere for other things. So. I mean, that I mean, I think that's a common thing that happens. Now, it seems like people want to move to this neighborhood, you know. So there's a lot more influx into the neighborhood kind of thing.

Sarah Nemeth [00:27:25] Have you ever observed any issues of gentrification now that is on the rise in the neighborhood?

Diana Cyganovich [00:27:31] Absolutely. You know, and that's one of the things that for the up until very recently, I would say that there was an ability to still kind of have mix in in social economics within the last couple of years. What I've seen happen is housing prices double and quadruple or quintuple, you know. And. Which is in some ways good for real estate. You want the market going up. It's just that there was a big jump in the last two years, which causes me some concern. It wasn't a gradual. For a long time it was a gradual, you know, like you buy a house for $50,000. The next person bought it for 60. The next person bought it for 65. The next person bought it for 70. You know, the next person was 80 or 90. And then it got to $100,000. And then some were going for 120, 150, and 170, and suddenly we're at 320 and 380 in the blink of an eye. You know, that causes me concern. You know that... that does. I mean, I think that can, that may not be as positive as that gradual.

Sarah Nemeth [00:28:48] Right.

Diana Cyganovich [00:28:48] Kind of. You know, over 20 some years we went from $50,000 to $150,000 to $170,000. And then in two years we went from 170 to 320 and 380. You know, that's there's something wrong.

Sarah Nemeth [00:29:02] Right

Diana Cy

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