Abstract

This interview discusses the Bender Farm and the Darst family's life on the farm.

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Interviewee

Darst, David (interviewee); Darst, Lee (interviewee)

Interviewer

Looney, James (interviewer); Conklin, Carolyn (participant)

Project

Cuyahoga Valley Project

Date

3-9-2011

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

80 minutes

Transcript

Transcription sponsored by Cuyahoga Valley National Park

James Looney [00:00:02] My name is James Looney. The date is March 9, 2011. Can you introduce yourselves?

Lee Darst [00:00:11] I'm Lee Darst. I'm the daughter of David who's beside me. He's 92 years old. And we lived on the Bender Farm beginning in 1957.

David Darst [00:00:23] That's correct.

James Looney [00:00:25] So why don't we begin? Tell me about the origins of the Bender Farm and how you came to live on it, Mr. Darst.

David Darst [00:00:36] I took my family from Bath Township in 1957 and went to Florida. We returned from Florida in two years and we wanted to find a place to rent furnished, and in the newspaper we found an ad, furnished apartment. Called on the telephone. They agreed to have my wife and I come to the farm and look over the apartment. Now, this is very interesting because my wife, when she was in high school, worked for one of the teachers at the high school doing house cleaning, cleaning a house and so and so forth. I had also with my Boy Scout troop, traveled up to the farmhouse and then went back into the woods. We arrived at the apartment, at the bottom of the stairs, and I had this question burning in my head. Bender. Ford Bender. And I said in the sixth grade, I had a teacher by the name of Ford and during the Christmas vacation she came back and she said, my name is Bender. And I said, "Great day. We'll take the apartment." "Well, don't you want to look at it?" "No way. We'll take the apartment." And thirty years we stayed there.

Lee Darst [00:02:42] Right. Dad, if I remember right, was '55 when you packed us all into your Nash and we went down to Florida. You didn't have a job or anything, but we went down there, my next in line sister, and then just an infant, your last daughter. And we came back then, you and mom and my baby sister came back, then in '57, and I had to stay in Florida with my next in line sister because I was finishing school for three months.

David Darst [00:03:10] You'd already gone to two different schools.

Lee Darst [00:03:12] Right. I know.

James Looney [00:03:15] So briefly, you spent two years in Florida. What drove you to come back and set up shop again here?

David Darst [00:03:22] Are you married?

James Looney [00:03:23] No, sir.

David Darst [00:03:29] My wife said, No more Florida.

Lee Darst [00:03:33] Plus her great, her grandmother who raised her, was in her 90s and she wanted to come back and, you know, try to help out with that.

James Looney [00:03:44] Now, if I'm to understand this teacher you had in second grade, was it related to the Bender who owned the farm?

Lee Darst [00:03:52] Mrs. Bender was the Miss Ford that he had at King School in sixth grade, so it was one and the same and he didn't know that when he arrived there at the farm. And, you know, it's kind of like it was meant to be. Mom said this is the house where I used to clean for Mrs. Bruner. And the Bruners did rent from the Benders at that time.

David Darst [00:04:12] Things just seemed to roll right in place. Thirty years was a good deal.

James Looney [00:04:20] So you came back in 1957 and moved into the property, correct? Take me back to some of your earliest memories of the property.

David Darst [00:04:30] Of the property?

James Looney [00:04:31] Yeah, your earliest memories of when you initially moved in and experiences you had.

David Darst [00:04:37] Being interested in history, I have some recollection of the house was some way connected with some counterfeiters. The word counterfeiter was in my head. I don't think I could tell you it was Brown or some other name at that time. The barn, huge, beautiful barn, caught my eye and I think I'm going to enjoy this period of time we live here. But each day, almost for twenty-something years, there was something new that we came across. And when you get me started, we'll go and all those things.

Lee Darst [00:05:44] Why don't you tell them what you used to do when you came home from work in Akron or wherever, what did you do then?

David Darst [00:05:52] When I arrived home, supper was all ready and it was more than five or ten minutes I was out doing some farm work.

James Looney [00:06:05] Now you briefly mentioned your parents. Were your parents farmers, or was it something that you decided you had an interest in?

David Darst [00:06:13] There are many things relating to farm, really relatives in the farm business. My father was born and raised in Miami County on a farm and went to Ohio State, not to be a farmer. He played football and graduated in 1913 as a mechanical engineer. So we would visit, before '57, we would visit the farm in Miami County and it was very pleasant.

Lee Darst [00:07:03] But your parents lived in the city most of their lives.

David Darst [00:07:06] Yes.

Lee Darst [00:07:07] So when they were able to buy their own property out in Bath Township, well, Medina County line. But that was a big thing for them and they did try. Why don't you tell some of the farming related things they did out there.

David Darst [00:07:24] The other thing that I want to say is that I joined the Grange, which at the time would be considered a farmers' organization.

James Looney [00:07:46] What year did you join the Grange?

Lee Darst [00:07:47] 1944?

David Darst [00:07:50] Well, I got my 50-year certificate this year.

Lee Darst [00:07:54] But that was after you had dropped your membership when you went to Florida and to get back in the swing of things. So '44. And then you dropped it when we went to Florida.

David Darst [00:08:04] But the principals in the Grange... The whole thing is a way of life as far as opposed to just farming, the different degrees that you went through of learning about the Grange were very impressive. Okay, where are we?

Lee Darst [00:08:33] I thought you're going to tell them about the turkeys on your parents' farm.

David Darst [00:08:36] Oh. [laughs] Well, we got all day to do that. My father and my mother wanted to get out of the city. And of course, there was something called the Great Depression starting. And we had gone through that they were able to keep me in repaired shoes as I walked to school for eight years. There was a lot of things we learned in the Depression, how to get along with life. And my father always wanted to do farming. The house they bought in Granger Township, Summit County, Medina County had a barn and had a place to raise chickens. Oh, that was just what they wanted. So they were in the turkey business and that was really something to behold. Turkeys roosted in the orchard. We had twelve apple trees and they stayed in the trees during the night and had freedom all around. Then my father decided we might as well make some money out of this. So we went into the turkey business. And, of course my mother wanted to get in the egg business so the son David, working at Goodrich, made arrangements with the cafeteria manager to take eggs from our farm. And if you can imagine, Guy going to work carrying 36 dozen of eggs in a box like that, "Where are you going David?" "Oh going up to the cafeteria." "What you got in the box?" "Eggs." So experiences. The turkeys, they even went into selling smoked turkeys. Which we even don't think about that now. So that was the beginning of our experience prior to Bender, we wanted to do it, we did it. And like I said, it was paradise to find Bender's farm. Next question.

James Looney [00:11:38] So these early experiences you had on your parents farm kind of left a very lasting impression upon what you want to do with your family.

David Darst [00:11:51] Say that again.

Lee Darst [00:11:53] You kind of want your family to grow up on a farm, too, then?

David Darst [00:11:56] Oh, definitely. Definitely.

Lee Darst [00:12:02] And it was quite a farm, 300 acres, 200 of them were woods and pasture land. So as kids, we ran free through there. We rode horses, chased the cows, or the cows chased us. It was just a nice, easy life. But you worked hard. That was expected too.

David Darst [00:12:22] The first thing the kids did was to build a tree house. First thing Murray did was be chauffeur for Mrs. Bender. Take her to the grocery, the laundry, and so forth, and she was always Mrs. Darst was always the doer of good deeds and. It was just not to the Bender place, but then through the church, she became a mobile meal deliverer and then supervisor and we would visit.

Lee Darst [00:13:07] Shut ins.

David Darst [00:13:11] I was trying to think of how many people, hundreds of people, friends, neighbors and strangers, so we all had... We were gaining things, opportunities, while we lived on the farm.

James Looney [00:13:34] So tell me, basically paint the picture of the farm for me in my mind. You said it was 300 acres and 200 of those acres were wooded. What sort of agriculture was grown on the farm?

David Darst [00:13:49] Let's go back to 1996 when Bender, Grandpa Bender, lived in southern Summit County and he wanted the larger farm 'cause he had six children. I think...

Lee Darst [00:14:12] Eleven children.

David Darst [00:14:13] Eleven. Excuse me.

Lee Darst [00:14:15] Maybe six sons.

David Darst [00:14:19] So. He was in the dairy business. And as his children married and left, they came down to the last child who was still on the farm that was Earva Bender, who married Miss Ford.

James Looney [00:14:53] Was that second grade teacher?

Lee Darst [00:14:54] Six, sixth grader. So it was mainly a dairy farm and dairy operation to begin with.

David Darst [00:15:00] Dairy farm, yes. And Earva had a problem—they did this and they did that—but there was no one to help them anymore, so it became his responsibility to milk the cows, plant the, harvest the feed for the cows. So he had a change of farming from dairy to beef cattle. No more milking.

Lee Darst [00:15:35] Now, they used to send the milk out on the railroad there at Ira, the Ira station, right?

David Darst [00:15:40] Yes, that was his father's idea. It was available. The other thing that he changed, he wanted to go into the sweet corn business. He wanted to go and made a business. And... Excuse me. He was able to take advantage of the property, in other words, he needed to raise tomatoes. He wanted to be ahead of everyone else at the Akron market, so he had to get started early. And to do that, he built a greenhouse. The greenhouse is still there. I don't know how many panes of glass are there, but it's...

Lee Darst [00:16:33] The foundation's still there, Dad.

David Darst [00:16:36] He also had a gas well that the people who were developing gas wells in that area had abandoned because it was not producing any. And so they blocked it off. Mr. Bender said, I need heat for my greenhouse. So he devised tripods and a way of raising up and down the bailer to bail the water. It hasdto be bailed because it was blocked and there was no gas coming up, and a great gas because there was the water seal. So every year he had to bail that water out, but he heated his house and his greenhouse with gas heat, which his father never thought of.

James Looney [00:17:48] Was having a gas well at this time something very unique? Was it very special to have this gas well, because I assume it probably hadn't come into mainstream yet?

Lee Darst [00:17:59] Do you know of anyone else on the road or in the neighborhood that had their own gas well also?

David Darst [00:18:04] No.

Lee Darst [00:18:05] I can't think of anyone.

David Darst [00:18:06] The only other thing of that nature was a salt... Gas well, salt well...

Lee Darst [00:18:19] Brine?

David Darst [00:18:20] Huh?

Lee Darst [00:18:20] Brine? Brine water?

David Darst [00:18:22] No, this was salt.

Lee Darst [00:18:25] Okay.

David Darst [00:18:25] Sodium chloride. But this was on the farm just north of us. I think that house is there now. The guy that owned it...

Lee Darst [00:18:36] Morani? John Morani?

Lee Darst [00:18:39] No. Well, yeah, Morani. So we have this greenhouse now, and he was able then to raise his own plants and therefore he would be ahead of other farmers when you got to the tomato market. One of the experiences that my wife actually referred to her as Marty. Experiences Marty and I had on the farm was to be told, tomorrow we're going to do tomatoes, and so we went to the greenhouse and he had a tool he made that put holes into the soil, and then he had bunches of tomato plants, and we had to put a plant each hole so they could grow. Well, that was just the beginning of our adventures. You got the plants growing. Now the weather just right. We're going to plant this in the field. If you told me that to me today I would run. Okay, Marty, you sit over here and David, you sit here, and it was just like this chair here, it's the way we sat and Mr. Bender would take a flat, that's a wooden 24 inch by 30 inch thing, with the plant and put it in our laps. And then he'd hook up his tractor to his planting machine. And we were the machine. He'd go driving along and we would plant, plant, plant. And he was a clever fellow. [laughs] We're in the place where he just sped up. He'd give us a hard time. But that's how we... Eight thousand tomato plants. But, boy, that was just the beginning, and those plants when they were ready, they had to be cultivated weird.

Lee Darst [00:21:31] Put down hay.

David Darst [00:21:33] Yep. Mulch, yes.

Lee Darst [00:21:36] Mulch 'em, yeah.

David Darst [00:21:40] But everything that he did, he in some way, made. He had a forge where he could heat the metal and pound it into shapes. He had a good neighbor across the river, Cranz. Lumin Cranz and Harman Cranz. He relied on them to do his heavy metal work. And the greenhouse. Heat by gas. And biggest problem was on a windy storm day, you'd have a chance of losing glass, and you had to replace it. But that was his project from the very beginning. He made some of the things that he needed to complete the job. And I always would remark, what a mind.

James Looney [00:22:58] Mr. Bender seems like he was sort of a Renaissance man with a gas well, he did most of his own metalworking.

David Darst [00:23:09] I don't think he had any more education than maybe...

Lee Darst [00:23:13] He went to high school.

David Darst [00:23:18] Yeah.

Lee Darst [00:23:18] He played football.

David Darst [00:23:19] He played football for high school, but I don't think that during the time he lived with his parents that he did any of this clever, I call it clever work because I'm still amazed at what he did up here.

Lee Darst [00:23:41] Well, you know, he subscribed to a lot of magazines, farming magazines and popular science and things of that sort. Popular Mechanics. And he would read those over the winter and plan how he could use that to make his farm better.

James Looney [00:23:58] So you're in... So in your experiences, Mr. Bender was largely self-taught.

Lee Darst [00:24:05] He was self-taught, plus what he learned by watching other people. A lot of the men in the Valley were all in the Masons together, you know, and I think they just helped each other out all the time, you know. They developed specific skills that they had and then they shared them. So they all benefited from that.

David Darst [00:24:29] Okay. Can I tell you about other important things on the farm?

James Looney [00:24:36] Absolutely. I just want to be clear. So when you moved into this farm in 1957, Mr. Bender had already had some pretty ingenious things around the farm to give him an edge over local competitors would also be growing agriculture.

David Darst [00:24:52] He had used several of the local boys to be his helpers. And when I came in there 24 hours a day, I became... [laughs]

Lee Darst [00:25:07] Boy Number One.

David Darst [00:25:10] But I learned a lot of things.

Lee Darst [00:25:15] The Ben... I'm sorry. The Benders didn't have children of their own, and Mom and Dad were about that same age that they would be like that. And we three girls grew up as they were like our grandparents, so.

David Darst [00:25:29] Yes, that was another important thing. I had a great desire to be a historian. And here I end up in history all around me. For one, in the 1850s—don't quote me on that date—they wanted to run a railroad through Hudson and Ghent and on into the west called the Clinton Air Line Extension. Well, Mr. Bender said when he moved there, they had a little building like a supervisor's building when they had worked on the railroad and it got... Have you been to the farm?

James Looney [00:26:47] I have not.

David Darst [00:26:50] The farm sits on a plateau above Akron Peninsula Road, and east... Mr. Bender told me that the railroad was to come across the front of the house. Well... Prior to that, the road, Akron Peninsula Road, came up from there to that plateau and the road itself went almost to the front door. [laughs]

Lee Darst [00:27:31] Well, a lot of farmhouses were built right on the road.

David Darst [00:27:38] The other thing... It's still available if you know what you're looking for... As the railroad property went across the front of Bender's house, it went further south and there's part of a hill that was cut down for the track to come along and then cross the Cuyahoga River going west. And that is still there. The other thing was the fact that Earva's brother... He was younger, wasn't he?

Lee Darst [00:28:34] Mhm. Well, Earva was the youngest. Frank was next.

David Darst [00:28:38] His next brother was a neighbor... He lived in the house, not the Bender house but further south from there. His property included what was called the Fort Lot, F-O-R-T L-O-T. And [the] historian that made a survey of the Cuyahoga Valley, he had records of such things as Indian campground, Indian village, and the Fort Lot was called that because it was built so on all sides, but one it's steep on both sides like a fort, and it was very flat area. Well, the only time I was there when Mr. Bender's brother wanted help with his tomatoes. So I went to help him, and I remember they set me up. They knew I loved Indian artifacts, and his brother's name was Frank, and Frank said, "Oh, what are you doing there?" And I said, "Oh, doing my job." He said, "Look over here." Beautiful arrowhead. "That's yours for working," he says. The Fort Lot was then turned into a housing development called Towpath Village, and they had to sort of cut down here and there, and when they removed the topsoil or top layer, there must have been 100 black spots here, here, here, here, which were the campfires of many people who had lived there, the number of years that was open, and I don't know how many years that would be.

Lee Darst [00:31:03] And you're talking about Native Americans as the people that lived there for many, many years.

David Darst [00:31:11] So there was another historic area. And something in history, when Sheriff Lane wrote his book, history book, he mentioned the counterfeiters and he mentioned the fact that Dan, D-A-N, Brown had gone to the gold rush in California and had returned with ninety thousand dollars of gold. Well, people who read that book would go up in their wagons and drive up to Bender's farm and look at where this fellow Dan Brown was buried. Well, Earva told me that his father got tired of all these people coming up on his property looking for Dan Brown's tombstone. So Earva told me that his dad hooked up to a horse and hauled it and threw it in the gully just to the left of the barn. Happy-go-lucky me... "Tombstone? Earva, what the tombstone for?" "Oh," he says, "it's just old Dan Brown's marker." "Where's it go?" "Well, my father put it there because it was causing trouble." And I said, "Well, let's look at it." So we hauled it out of there. And Earva said, "Well, I remember it should be right about there." So that's where we put it. And it's there today.

Lee Darst [00:33:09] You think.

James Looney [00:33:11] But no gold was ever found, huh?

David Darst [00:33:15] Well, let's see, what've we missed here?

Lee Darst [00:33:17] Not for want of anybody looking for it. When the vendors had sold to the park and were cleaning things out, there were two men from Copley that asked for permission to dove down into the cistern in their scuba gear to see if the gold was down there. Of course, it was not.

James Looney [00:33:35] And so this was kind of a myth about the Bender Farm that there was this ninety thousand dollars of Dan Brown's gold?

Lee Darst [00:33:41] Yeah. We truly believe the guy absconded with it from California, but how do you get back to Ohio from California? Most likely you go by boat. By ship.

David Darst [00:33:55] Isthmus.

Lee Darst [00:33:55] And, yeah, through the isthmus there and around, and a lot of ships went down in the storms of that time. So whether the gold was lost, we don't know because Dan Brown died of consumption or something similar to that [in] 1857 when he returned. So...

James Looney [00:34:11] Took the secrets to his grave.

Lee Darst [00:34:13] Absolutely. Which didn't stop the Secret Service or whatever they were called at that time. They had him just in Disinterred. Yeah, exhumed. And as a result then the family had him buried in the family cemetery off the property.

David Darst [00:34:30] I had to learn a lot about farming the hard way. I'd make a wrong move. I had a disk behind me. And I'm in a big tractor. And the disk got into some sand and sank down in so it stuck. So I hop off of the tractor and go back and I pull the pin that's holding the disk. And I hop back on the tractor. [Makes a loud hissing sound] And everything went fine, except the hose was still conduct connected to the hydraulic, and I could hear Mr. Bender a mile away, and we won't write that in place. Little things like that. You... [laughs]

Lee Darst [00:35:40] You only do once. You only do that mistake once.

David Darst [00:35:46] Yeah.

Lee Darst [00:35:47] Yeah.

James Looney [00:35:50] So tell me more about the early years on the farm from 1957 on when the children were a little walk. Walk me through it. Walk me through a day in the farm.

David Darst [00:36:04] I worked at Goodrich. [I'd] get home and whatever he planned for me to do, that's what I did.

Lee Darst [00:36:18] It's pretty much seasonal, you know, it changed with the seasons as to what you did. The main task was hoeing weeds or cultivating the weeds, and everyone in the family was given a hoe and said, there's your row. And that was fun because you'd just get out there and you'd kind of daydream. And there were a lot of wildlife things to watch. So. The Cuyahoga River went right by there, and it was just not too unpleasant I'm sure. But usually Earva Bender had a schedule mine. He knew exactly what he was going to do and what day, and he did that. He was pretty much a one-man show. When he needed extra help, he called the boys of the Valley or he had us do work and got the task done. The worst thing, of course, was the hay. You would cut the hay and of course, you had to dry and you'd rake it and then you let dry some more and before you could bale it. Well, inevitably when we were ready to bale, the storm clouds were over there getting ready. So we'd have to hurry up and do that. Well, picking up the baled hay, that's hard work. But putting it into the mow in the barn was the hard work, especially when you knew those storm clouds were coming in. So there was a lot of momentary agony [laughs] as you had to hurry to get things done. But it was all good, hard work.

David Darst [00:37:43] Okay, now, for a good part of our experience there, Mrs. Bender, at one time, when they had married was salesperson of a little stand selling whatever Earva raised and where Akron Peninsula Road makes a big curve around Bender driveway is where they had their stand. Well, before we came there that stand had been destroyed by fire. What we got involved in was having our wagon, our big hay wagon and put our vegetables that we were raising on the hay wagon, and used that as our sales area at the bottom of the hill by the barn. And we had people coming from Bath, Richfield, Cuyahoga Falls, to buy vegetables from Bender. We came to the time when we needed some other type of activity, and Mr. Bender or Mrs. Bender thought of pumpkins. And we became known as the pumpkin farm, Bender's Pumpkin Farm. And I think I cried more over with pumpkins than anything else. We'd have the seeder, seeder would plant the seeds automatically, and then you had to go along and cull and take out those plants that weren't doing very well. And I think I told him, I've got to cry. I got to get myself accustomed to killing this plant. Oh, David, you will when you finish this row. But that became a big deal for us. I was able to cook up three weeks of vacation right after, one after the other, and so during Halloween time, I went on vacation from Goodrich and we were in the pumpkin business. He had 15 acres of pumpkins. And just to tend them, weed 'em, is part of it. After you gathered them up and you washed 'em down and then you put 'em on the ground or you put 'em in the truck, and we delivered pumpkins to schools in the area. And in those three weeks of vacation, I moved a lot of pumpkins and delivered them. One store was having a sale promotion and giving away pumpkins. And I remember I made my first delivery to the store. By the time I got back, they want another load. And I had the same problem with the schools. There was a school in Akron that wanted pumpkins and it seemed that pumpkin business was booming.

Lee Darst [00:41:58] Before that, we should tell 'em about the farmers' market there in Akron.

David Darst [00:42:02] Yes.

Lee Darst [00:42:02] Every farmer had their own little stall that they rented every year, and Bender's had one. If we got a surplus of tomatoes or whatever vegetable we would truck it on in there. And you get there about 2:30, 3 o'clock in the morning and you go in and sit, all these men, I remember kind of being a scared little girl when I was first offered to go to the farmers' market, but we said at the big counter and ate breakfast with all these guys. And, you know, they're all doing their farm talk. And by 4 o'clock, 5 o'clock, then the groceries in the area came in to buy directly from the farmers. So that was a part of the truck farming business that [we] first initiated in. And then later Earva Bender had gotten enough relations with the local markets that they came to us instead of we have to deliver, although there were some times on weekends we delivered, but a lot of the... Well, even Acme, didn't Acme get some corn from Bender's originally in the '60s?

David Darst [00:43:07] It was more of the market on... Oh my.

Lee Darst [00:43:15] Vaughn's? Vaughn's market?

David Darst [00:43:17] Yes, Vaughn. He had the one in Brecksville and he had one in Akron at... I'm trying to think of the name of it. Masonic Square. It's in North Akron. But they were steady customers.

Lee Darst [00:43:40] We picked corn by hand on the farm.

David Darst [00:43:44] Yes. He believed in taking... When you first got your hand on an ear, you knew it was ready to be picked, and his neighbor, Mr. Szalay, bought a big picker, automatic, and sit up there—[makes sound] "Beep! Beep!"—and pick the corn. Well, it grabs the ear like that and throws it in the back. And Mr. Bender picked it and put it in his sled and he had a horse that pulled it. And right up to the end, he was using horse and handpicked all his sweet corn.

James Looney [00:44:47] Why do you think he insisted on using the horse and handpicking method as opposed to a new technological method which would have made the work easier?

Lee Darst [00:45:02] I think it was the way things were done that you use the horse, plus you had the quality control of knowing that that ear was ready. And it was just, I think, just the way that he had always learned and carried on with that. Now, when you talk about the new technology, of course, you need megasized fields to make it profitable, which, of course, the Szalays have now done in the farm. In fact, they are farming half of the Bender Farm acreage for sweet corn along the river. So I think there's also the investment of money to buy that new equipment.

David Darst [00:45:40] Yes.

Lee Darst [00:45:41] So sometimes the old way was better for him.

David Darst [00:45:44] I'm... Excuse me. I would say that 99 percent of the things on his farm were used that he bought at a sale. And I can remember twice being assigned the job of taking the big tractor and going to that place and hooking up, and I think the first thing I had was a hay rake, and the next thing I had was a baler. But everything was used. All his tractors were used.

Lee Darst [00:46:20] And he had the wherewithal to repair them. So that was good too. Getting back to the sweet corn, they used to pick about 600 dozen years. 600 dozen ears [laughs] of corn.

James Looney [00:46:36] How many acres of the property were used for growing sweet corn?

Lee Darst [00:46:42] Well, it was 100 that was...

James Looney [00:46:43] Farming.

Lee Darst [00:46:44] Farmed, yes. Probably all b

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