Abstract

Donna McIntyre Whyte speaks about the importance of the education system in Shaker Heights, specifically Moreland, to her decision to move to and remain in Moreland. She also discusses the importance of community and identity in this interview.

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Interviewee

McIntyre Whyte, Donna (interviewee)

Interviewer

Winlock, Sonia (interviewer)

Project

Moreland History Project

Date

2018

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

70 minutes

Transcript

Sonia Winlock [00:00:01] Hi, this is Sonia. I’m interviewing Donna White, a Moreland resident. Donna, how long have you been living in Moreland?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:00:08] Well, I am Donna McIntyre Whyte. So some people in the world know me as Donna McIntyre. They’re listening from years ago. You know, they’ll know McIntyre. Well, I moved to Moreland actually in 1982, and I lived and actually was a tenant. So when I moved into Moreland, I moved primarily because I put my children in school at that time. They were third and fourth grade, second and third grade. That’s what it was. And so I moved into Moreland, and then I moved to Lomond. I lived in Moreland for maybe three, three and a half years or so, and then I moved to the Lomond area, and then I moved back to Moreland in 1990. So I’ve been. And I moved back because I bought a house on Chelton Road, and that’s where I am. So the house that we live in I bought in 1990, and we’ve been there ever since. So that’s almost 30 years, just in terms of being a homeowner.

Sonia Winlock [00:01:06] And then what also brought you to Shaker the first time?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:01:11] Well, I grew up in Mount Pleasant, which is, you know, for people who know, it’s the community that’s adjacent to Shaker Heights. So I always knew Shaker Heights as a child. I grew- We moved into the Mount Pleasant area when I was five. So I went all the way through school in the Cleveland public schools and never moved or anything. So that was all of my education. And actually the reason that I moved into Shaker, not Moreland specifically, but just Shaker, because I wasn’t really sure. So I left in 1966 and went to school, went to Ohio State. Really didn’t think I would ever move back to Cleveland. It wasn’t even on my mind. And so then I look up and life, you know, goes on, and I end up coming back home. I come home. I actually lived with my parents from 1981–82, and during that year I ran into Iris Anderson. She was Iris Clark now. We were in elementary school together in Cleveland. We went to Rickoff, which is right on 146 and Kinsman. And so I knew Iris from childhood, and I ran into her, of all places, of course, in Heinen’s, which is the store that my mother always shopped in when I was growing, growing up, I always knew Heinen’s. I knew it right on Chagrin. So it was no big deal to me to go to Heinen’s. And so I had not seen her since 1966. When we graduated from high school. We went our separate ways. She went to Hampton, I went to Ohio State. And so she had her youngest daughter with her, who is the same age as my oldest daughter. We didn’t know anything about our lives in those 15 years since graduation from high school. And so I said, where in the world do you live? Because I knew that I was going to stay in Cleveland. I knew I was not going to live in Cleveland, the city of Cleveland. I knew that. So it was really about having my children in schools that I thought were good schools. And so she said she lived in Shaker Heights. And I was like, oh, really? So the conversation we had was brief. But she said something that was very important to me because she said it was the closest that she could find to what we had when we were children, which was this kind of idyllic life living in Mount Pleasant was just wonderful neighborhood schools, everything. Good schools, stellar schools in Cleveland at that time. And so that was all I needed. And so I really, literally looked in the newspaper for a place to live in Shaker. And I knew I wasn’t going to buy. Cause I didn’t think I was going to be here this long. So I said, okay, well, I’ll go find a place to rent. And found a place on Sudbury, Sudbury Road. So that was the first house that we lived in. Lived on the first floor there. Didn’t know anything about Shaker or anything. And it was August when I moved in. And really, based on her statement, that was it, the beginning and end. I didn’t have to have conversation with her. Otherwise, because we were children together, you know, we could not have had any more similar experiences. So I didn’t have to question anything about what she was saying. And she had been here. I’m not really sure what year she moved into Shaker, but she’s always lived in Moreland. And so she had been here for a few years. And so that was it. So I packed up from my mother and father’s house and just moved on to Sudbury Road and enrolled my children into Moreland Elementary. So, you know, my children were actually among the last students to actually attend Moreland Elementary School. And when I went to the school district to enroll them, I was offered an opportunity to send them to Fernway. Now, I didn’t know anything about any of these schools. This was like, you could have told me Mars, you know, wouldn’t have made any difference. I didn’t know where schools were, hadn’t paid any attention that closely to. To Shaker, coming up. Maybe I knew Onaway. I knew something about Onaway. I knew Shaker Square. I knew Van Aken, you know, when you’re growing up, but you’re not mobile when you grow up. You’re with your parents all the time. So I didn’t move around Shaker on my own, but many young people that I knew did because of where they lived in Cleveland that was very close to Shaker, very close to the Shaker border. And I knew, even in elementary school, I knew of families that moved in Shaker from my church, I knew families moved in Shaker. So it was not foreign to me. However, it was also not a destination for me. I didn’t think- I didn’t think I was gonna be in Cleveland, but clearly Shaker was not a place that I thought that I would live. Didn’t give it any thought. So. But, I mean, I had my thoughts. I did have my perceptions of Shaker, which were not positive. And so when she said that, I was like, okay, this is about my children. And so I moved into the house on Sudbury, and I knew once I was there for some time, and then even the house that we lived in on Ingleside, in Lomond, we were still renting, but I knew I wasn’t. If I was going to live somewhere, I was going to buy a house eventually. So, you know, it really was her, you know, kind of the, I need to listen to somebody I don’t have to ask any more questions to. And as it turned out, when I did go to the school district and I was offered to send the children to Fernway or Moreland, my question being me, who I am? I said, what’s the- What’s the African American enrollment at each one of these schools? I don’t know anything about, you know, who lives where, whatever. I knew that the community I was moving to was a Black community. I knew that that was kind of the beginning and end of it. I didn’t think about it, really. And so I was told that Moreland- I forget what the percentage was. Maybe 90, 95% African American, and Fernway was 20, 25% or whatever minority. I remember that word. Not African American, necessarily. And so I said, oh, my children are going to go to Moreland. You know, I. And I didn’t have to say anything to the registrar, but in my mind, if I had a choice, I was going to put my school in a- I was going to put my children in a school where they were the majority. Just. That’s it, you know, I mean, there are all kinds of connotations with the term minority. And so I was like, oh, no. You know, they’ll just. And they can walk, you know. So, again, it really, really went very far for me to know that my children could walk to school. School, you know, just to kind of reminisce on that experience I had had when I was a child. So they were second and third grade when we moved into Moreland. And so. And Dolores Groves was the principal, who was the best principal in Shaker. And so. And I, you know, started running into other people I happened to know. Francine Miller, farmer. I can, you know, call her name, you know, again, I knew her when I was a child, and she. And her daughter is a year older than my oldest daughter, and she was a parent with PTA. And she just said to me, just happened to see her in school. She says, you need to join PTA. I was like, okay. You know, I’m just one of those, okay, when’s the meeting? Okay, I’ll be there. And that was kind of, you know, the rest is kind of history. Right, Right.

Sonia Winlock [00:08:21] So you had mentioned- And it’s so funny that now we’re in Moreland right now. [laughs]

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:08:24] Yes, we are in the library. Absolutely. Yes.

Sonia Winlock [00:08:27] So I know you had made mention of your kids was there. Right? Was that- That was the year that they closed, or did they have a few years at Moreland? And how did that affect your household or your perception on Shaker?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:08:42] It was very interesting. It was very interesting because, you know, as a Moreland parent and as a part of PTA, one of the things that happens when people are engaged, you know, or volunteer, you know, information. You know, information. So it was- It was, you know, not a secret that the school district was closing some elementary schools. Enrollment was down across the district. And this was a decision that school board superintendent made at that time. So my youngest daughter, as there had been a decision to close Moreland and four other schools close Moreland, it would have occurred right as she was going into sixth grade. So she had finished the fifth grade. The school was supposed to close. We moved at the same time to Lomond. So I was concerned, even because we were outside of the area, if she’d be able to finish here. So I was told, and I was assured that doesn’t matter because she started in second grade. So the district would, you know, would honor that. And I didn’t have to go through hoops for that question. And so I wanted her to be able to finish. So the community really just rose up in unison and said, no, you know, you’re not going to close this school. And so the decision was made. The school board made the decision to allow the school to stay open, but then the next year it closed. So she was able to finish the sixth grade. My concern personally was that my child would have made two transitions two years in a row, you know, if she had had to go to whatever Lomond or whatever elementary school, and then the next year she would have gone to the middle school. I thought it would have been disruptive. And so I was concerned personally, you know, for my own child, you know, it wasn’t as much, you know, that she wasn’t a good student and everything. It was really just about. She always wants to, you know, for your child. And as it turned out, the school didn’t close, and so she was able to finish her last year, you know, so both of my children finished sixth grade, so my youngest started in second, and my oldest started in third grade, and they went on through. And actually, they had the same teacher for third and sixth grade, Pamela Anderson. Oh, unbelievable. I mean, this was, in my estimation, even though it wasn’t a decision that I deliberated much. I saw Iris Anderson. She told me she lived in Shaker. I moved. I said, okay, let me put my children in school. I put them in Moreland. And it was the best decision I could have made for the foundation of their education. And one perception I had as well is that it was important for my children, at least if I had a choice, and we had been in other school districts, obviously they were second, third grade. It was important for my children to be in the majority because I really. No, you know, we’re in America. You know, I knew, particularly in a school district like Shaker, that if they had been in the minority, they would not have known how it would feel to be number one. It was very important for me, you know, as young people, you know, to just know. Not that they always were, you know, but I. I wanted them to have the opportunity, and I didn’t think it was going to happen if they were in the minority. I knew it wouldn’t. I knew it wouldn’t, and I didn’t want that to be so they could be empowered and they would know, well, whatever comes along, I always know I can be number one, even if, you know, it doesn’t happen. But, you know, it’s there. And I also felt that the teachers in Moreland were really proud of this school. They were proud of the kids it was an exceptional elementary school. You know, I mean, I would stack it up to any other school in Shaker, clearly. And it had a math program that was the math projects program or whatever they called it. Okay, I think it was math projects. Each one of the elementary schools back then, before the school district closed the schools there were. The reason I was offered the opportunity to send the children to Fernway, even though we lived in Moreland, was because it was a pro integrative effort. So if an African American family wanted to help integrate a school, you know, they could. The bus would pick them up and they would take them to the school. And so I said, no, it’s not my responsibility to be real honest, so they’re going to the neighborhood. And so then I realized after being here that each elementary school, there were nine. Each elementary school had a particularly particular focus, that no matter where you lived in the district, if your children qualified or wanted to be in that program, they could be in that program. Well, like the Lomond. Not Lomond. Was it Ludlow? Ludlow. I do believe it was, you know, academic achievement. It was for honors children, something like that. I can’t remember exactly what the term was. Moreland was math. It was an accelerated math program. It was for high achieving children in math. And so Moreland was the only elementary school that had that program. And so here we live in the neighborhood, and my, you know, children could be tested to see if they would get in. The vast majority of the children in that program almost exclusively were white. So again, white families, you know, intentionally sent their children to Moreland. So it was not an all-Black school.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:14:38] It was not all Black. And so most of the children in math projects were white. But, you know, there were other students and other families who wanted their children in an environment where everybody was not white. So they just volunteered for their children to go here. But most of the white children were in math projects. Very few black children were in the program here. We’re in the neighborhood, we’re in Moreland, where virtually everybody’s Black. Very few children tested into the program. My children did, you know, and my oldest daughter got her degree in math. And there. It is not by accident. It is not by accident. I mean, she still knows Betty Hess. She still knows the teachers she had in elementary school. And both of my children ended up being in math projects. And so the foundation they got in elementary school determined how well they were going to do in the math curriculum. And it was very important for me that my children be able to have as much as Shaker could offer. Because it looked to me to be a school district that had opportunities. That’s all we needed. It was all that I needed as a parent. I wasn’t, you know, going to believe they were going to do everything. Of course they were going to make their choices. But academically, you know, if a school district doesn’t offer certain things, which is true, you know, all school districts don’t offer the same thing. They certainly don’t offer the same quality that, you know, Shaker had for a public school district. You know, Shaker had everything that appeared parent could possibly want. And, you know, I mean, it would have as much as any private school would and more because they have the socialization, you know, which a lot of private schools don’t have. But, you know, that program, again, not that I knew. When I moved in the district, I didn’t know anything about the math projects program. All I knew was, okay, Iris lives around the corner. You know, I’m gonna put my kids in school, okay? You know, my parents were retired, so, you know, I never had to take off work or whatever. You know, they come see the kids off in the morning. They be there. My mother be there in the evening. So, you know, the principal knew my mother too, you know, so. And I was involved with PTA. So that was what, you know, that was the connection. And then Girl Scouts, I ran into somebody last night who I knew as, you know, her daughter and my daughters were in Girl Scouts together. Right here at Moreland. Right here at Moreland. So, you know, in terms of community, it was everything that I could have imagined for, you know, a school and how the community and the school were indistinguishable. And then, of course, then it changed.

Sonia Winlock [00:17:22] And I- speaking more about Moreland. Once the school closed, what was the dynamics that affected the neighborhood?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:17:31] Well, we were gone. Yeah, we lived in Lomond. We lived in Lomond. So at that time, my children-

Sonia Winlock [00:17:39] And how long did you live in Lomond?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:17:40] We lived there for four and a half years or so, something like that.

Sonia Winlock [00:17:43] Okay, So when you came back, you can probably- Well, could you tell a difference from?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:17:48] Well, see, I didn’t- When I lived here initially, I didn’t get involved in the community association or anything like that. I knew about it. You know, I knew about it. And, you know, I was involved in something, you know. You know, it wasn’t always neighborhood based, but, you know, parent groups, black parents, you know, there was a group called Concerned Parents that had been around before I moved into Shaker, but, you know, it existed. I was like, okay, where do I go? You know, it’s just really who I am. Because, you know, they would always be concerned with the school district, you know, treating children fairly, everybody being educated, you know, the way they should or could be. And so I, you know, really would focus on my career, probably more so than my neighborhood, you know, okay, I have to pay the bills.

Sonia Winlock [00:18:38] Okay, Right, right.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:18:39] Put shoes on kids’ feet. So, you know, then, you know, over that time, I did, you know, get to know Lomond somewhat. Somewhat. And. But then once again, Iris Anderson calls me one morning and tells me that the house next door to her is for sale. She knew I was looking for a house. She knew I was looking for a house. And we lived in Lomond, which was fine, which was fine. But we lived in a double house. And I had never lived in rental property ever in my life. So this was like, okay, well this is not gonna match forever. But I really didn’t know whether I could afford a house in Shaker, you know, because I’m single, you know, I was like, okay, well, you know, I don’t know how much houses are. And I knew how much if I bought a house, how much I would not go above. I was like, this may not be realistic because, you know, houses in Shaker cost a decent amount of money. So a realtor I was with, she was trying to get me to spend more money. I was like, I keep telling you, this is all money I had. So Iris called me one Sunday morning and she said, and I hadn’t thought about Moreland. Didn’t even cross my mind. It was, we lived there, we left. It never occurred to me to come back. And so, you know, I mean, it was logical to me that we lived in Lomond.

Sonia Winlock [00:20:04] Right.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:20:04] You know, I mean, we were here for some time, time to go. Had a horrible landlord over on Sudbury. That was one of the reasons, you know, moved over in Lomond. Had a really good landlord. He offered the house to me. He sold it. He was selling it while we lived there. And he offered it. He said, I’ll offer it to you first. All I thought about was, I do not want anybody other than my family living in a house with me. It was a double house, you know, second and third floor. We would have probably lived on the second and third floor. But I was like, no, I don’t want to live in a multi family house. And so Iris called me, she said, the man selling the house is here. He was selling it on his own. And you know, she explained to me the circumstances. And I came over to the house and made a deal with him on the spot he was here. He opened the house up. It was empty. It was empty. So I could look at it and, you know, see whether they were hiding anything and they had already done what work they needed to point of sale, inspection and everything. They were at that point where it was almost finished. And I said, okay, how much do you want? And we shook hands on it, and that was it. Now, I’ll be real honest, my daughter said to me, you don’t go back. You don’t go back. You go forward. And I said, this is what I can afford. This is what I can afford. I hadn’t thought as much in terms of, you know, the neighborhood. I did. I have to be honest. I did. I was like, okay, but I need a single house. I need a single house. And if Iris is okay with me living next door, I mean, next door.

Sonia Winlock [00:21:50] First you start right behind us, and now you’re next door.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:21:52] Yes, yes. I was like, you know, I mean, I don’t know that I would. Told a friend of mine, you know, the house next door was just like, that may be a little bit too close. But I said, I guess I had never even paid attention to the house. We were together a lot, and I never paid attention to the house that was next door to her. So that was in 1990. So there you go. And so, you know, we moved in. And so, you know, I got to know the neighborhood then and did get involved or became aware of the Moreland Community Association, which, you know, had changed over time to Moreland on the Move Community Association. So I was involved with all of that, and, you know, knew some of the people who had been involved very early, Iris included. She was very involved, you know, very early. And so I, you know, kind of sometimes had kind of, you know, challenges with the neighborhood, you know, challenges with, you know, some of the things that I saw that I wanted to, you know, perhaps wish away, you know, in terms of, you know, behavior of some of the young people, like, with the playground down the street, you know, because a lot of the teenagers, they don’t have anything to do.

Sonia Winlock [00:23:03] Right.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:23:04] You know, so that was- And then the community would address it, you know, and, you know, address it along with whatever the city could do. You know, I’ve seen, you know, the neighborhood change over the last, you know, several years because, you know, houses have been torn down and things like that. And, you know, certainly it has crossed my mind that, you know, I don’t have to be here. You know, I don’t have to be here. There have been times that I’ve had neighbors that I’ve called the police and said their music’s just too loud. You know, I don’t want to hear this. And, you know, Shaker police are very responsive. And so they come and they listen, and you knock on the door, whatever. And, you know, there are times, occasionally, but not recently, you know, times occasionally where you go, okay, folks are moving in and they don’t know what it means to move into Shaker. And I am one who will just. I don’t like my space invaded with noise. With noise. The other side of it is, you know, when I am in my house, everybody who knows me knows I love my house. That, you know, when springtime comes and I hear somebody’s music, if it’s not too loud, I’m good, you know, and if it’s not profane, I’m good, you know, because I’m home. Because I’m home. And it was very important for me just on a personal level, you know, to be somewhere that felt like home. And, you know, it clearly was the only place I had ever been since I left after high school. So I had been gone for, you know, I graduated from high school in 66, and it was not until I moved into the house in 90 that I really felt like I was home. So it didn’t really matter a whole lot to me what else was going on, you know, because the house, you know, and the fact that Iris was next door, and, you know, I knew other people in the neighborhood because my children went to elementary school, right. So I did know people didn’t necessarily know where they lived, but, you know, everybody would come to school. So you really do build relationships with other, you know, parents through their children. And so, you know, in that regard, I felt like I knew people who lived here. You have things in common. You have things in common. But, you know, it always felt that, you know, I want, you know, the best for the community. And I do believe that, you know, the city has to want the best for the community, too. Right now, at this time in our history in Moreland, I’m not sure what we would do if there were not a Vicky Elder and a Carmela Williams. Honestly.

Sonia Winlock [00:25:53] Right.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:25:54] Honestly. Because they are the most committed, diligent, aware people that I know of, you know, who are going to always, you know, have the city attend to, you know, and regard, you know, Moreland in the way that it should be now, you know, they know when I say I don’t know about being in this neighborhood, blighted neighborhood, with these houses being torn down. This is just not working for me. And you say, wait a minute, Donna, you know, don’t go anywhere. I’m like, alright.

Sonia Winlock [00:26:30] Yeah, yeah because I believe they’re. They’re building houses.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:26:34] Yes.

Sonia Winlock [00:26:36] No, Hildana.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:26:38] Okay.

Sonia Winlock [00:26:38] In the spring, when they start.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:26:40] Yeah, right. That’s what I heard. It’ll be interesting, you know, as long as the architecture works, you know.

Sonia Winlock [00:26:47] Have you seen it yet?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:26:48] I saw the- Actually, my sister who lives in Cleveland, she lives in the house we grew up in. She uses the library constantly. So she told me, and I knew about the architectural, you know, contest and everything, and I came and looked at the artist renderings, and I was like, well, whose houses are these? Shaker. They don’t look like Shaker at all, you know? And I mean, what we have in Moreland is unique, right? And when I think that I’d just be somewhere else, I’m like, okay, not anywhere else in Shaker.

Sonia Winlock [00:27:19] Right.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:27:20] You know, this is the only place where I could have a house like this and nowhere else. Plus, I don’t want to pay the exorbitant taxes somewhere else.

Sonia Winlock [00:27:28] Yes. You’ll enjoy your life.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:27:30] Yeah, yeah. My daughter lives over on Lomond. You know, my taxes are nothing compared to hers. You know, she has a nice house and everything, you know, but it’s. The taxes over there for me are prohibitive. It’s like, even if you paid for a house, you still pay for a house. 7, 8, $9,000 in taxes to me. Logic. That’s not logical.

Sonia Winlock [00:27:50] Not for me either.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:27:52] No, no, no. So, you know, I mean, I- And like I said, people who know me know that I, you know, love my house. I’ve rebuilt it at least three times.

Sonia Winlock [00:28:01] Really?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:28:02] Oh, goodness. It was built in 1926, you know, and, and you have to love an old house, you know, because there is no end. And I mean, I always want to do something cosmetic, but then I’m like, oh, no, I have to fix something.

Sonia Winlock [00:28:21] Right, Right, right.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:28:22] Fix something.

Sonia Winlock [00:28:23] Right.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:28:23] There’s never a time when there’s something that doesn’t have to be fixed. And even then, you know, after a while, you have to fix something else.

Sonia Winlock [00:28:34] Right?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:28:34] You know, so I have an idea, but I always come up with ideas about doing stuff.

Sonia Winlock [00:28:39] Okay, so I know you did say that you did have a. Maybe not. You did go to, like, a more than on the move meetings and some of the changes they were bringing up. Like, I remember Shelton park had that change. Now, were you involved in anything that happened at Shelton Park.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:29:02] Well, I was aware, you know, particularly. And even-

Sonia Winlock [00:29:05] I mean, with the new development, removing houses?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:29:06] Oh, yeah, the houses. Oh, yeah. Right, right, right. Because they had removed a couple of houses. Actually, one house was one of my- My youngest daughter’s friend lived there. They tore one of those houses down. So there were a couple of houses that were torn down, and then they came and tore down a couple more.

Sonia Winlock [00:29:26] Okay.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:29:27] I think there were a total of four, you know, to open up the space. And. And so, I mean, the park is. And I tell people, I was like, well, we have this regulation baseball field that’s not used anymore. You know, of course, when I guess the whatever Pee Wee league or, you know, would come, you know, and people would come and watch their children play. It doesn’t happen anymore.

Sonia Winlock [00:29:51] Yeah.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:29:51] You know, now the park is used all the time. All the time. So, you know, it’s really special, right. You know, to be on a street that has a park that size. And now I have a grandchild, a grandson. You know, my daughter and my grandson live with me. He never goes to the park. Never, never, never, never. You know, and even when Iris grandson, they’re best friends. The whole story. We have a whole story. The two of us house next door to each other, and they’re exactly the same age. So goodness, you know, just happened. It just happened that way. And so I went down to the park with them one time last summer, you know, they weren’t going to go by themselves.

Sonia Winlock [00:30:35] No.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:30:35] You know, and when we did get down there, they feel like they’re big kids there, you know, they’re 11. Oh, yeah, they’re 11. So I was like, I’ll walk down there with you. You know, so they stayed for a little while. Then they’re like, okay, we’re done. You know, so they’re not going to. In my mind, you know, my children, when they grew up in Moreland, they would leave and they would be gone.

Sonia Winlock [00:30:58] Yeah.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:30:59] And they were on Chelton most of the time. It was fine. No cell phones, no nothing. They were kids. They were elementary school kids. They would leave the house or kids would come over our house. And there were just kids everywhere, right? Everywhere. And so they were a part of the community a lot more. My grandson is not part of the Moreland community at all. He lives in the house. He likes the house. He goes to Woodbury now. You know, he went to Mercer. So again, you know, do you think.

Sonia Winlock [00:31:33] Because of school not being here?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:31:37] What?

Sonia Winlock [00:31:38] Do you think some may add to that? Is it because of the school not being here?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:31:42] Well, you know, clearly, if there’s a school in your neighborhood, you know, within walking distance, of course. You know, my youngest, my middle grandson, like I was saying, my daughter lives. Lives on Lomond. They live right across the street from the school. And he was still in elementary school when he went there. He’d just wake up and walk across the street or you go to the playground, you know,

Sonia Winlock [00:32:10] To give you that sense of community?

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:32:12] Yes, absolutely. The sense of community. And, you know, in the library, you know, it’s good to have the library here because it still is our anchor.

Sonia Winlock [00:32:19] Right, right.

Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:32:20] It’s our anchor. Make no mistake. And so, you know, it’s utilized

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