Abstract
Donna McIntyre Whyte speaks about the importance of the education system in Shaker Heights, specifically Moreland, to her decision to move to and remain in Moreland. She also discusses the importance of community and identity in this interview.
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Interviewee
McIntyre Whyte, Donna (interviewee)
Interviewer
Winlock, Sonia (interviewer)
Project
Moreland History Project
Date
2018
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
70 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Donna McIntyre Whyte interview, 2018" (2018). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 904011.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1166
Transcript
Sonia Winlock [00:00:01] Hi, this is Sonia. I’m interviewing Donna White, a Moreland resident. Donna, how long have you been living in Moreland?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:00:08] Well, I am Donna McIntyre Whyte. So some people in the world know me as Donna McIntyre. They’re listening from years ago. You know, they’ll know McIntyre. Well, I moved to Moreland actually in 1982, and I lived and actually was a tenant. So when I moved into Moreland, I moved primarily because I put my children in school at that time. They were third and fourth grade, second and third grade. That’s what it was. And so I moved into Moreland, and then I moved to Lomond. I lived in Moreland for maybe three, three and a half years or so, and then I moved to the Lomond area, and then I moved back to Moreland in 1990. So I’ve been. And I moved back because I bought a house on Chelton Road, and that’s where I am. So the house that we live in I bought in 1990, and we’ve been there ever since. So that’s almost 30 years, just in terms of being a homeowner.
Sonia Winlock [00:01:06] And then what also brought you to Shaker the first time?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:01:11] Well, I grew up in Mount Pleasant, which is, you know, for people who know, it’s the community that’s adjacent to Shaker Heights. So I always knew Shaker Heights as a child. I grew- We moved into the Mount Pleasant area when I was five. So I went all the way through school in the Cleveland public schools and never moved or anything. So that was all of my education. And actually the reason that I moved into Shaker, not Moreland specifically, but just Shaker, because I wasn’t really sure. So I left in 1966 and went to school, went to Ohio State. Really didn’t think I would ever move back to Cleveland. It wasn’t even on my mind. And so then I look up and life, you know, goes on, and I end up coming back home. I come home. I actually lived with my parents from 1981–82, and during that year I ran into Iris Anderson. She was Iris Clark now. We were in elementary school together in Cleveland. We went to Rickoff, which is right on 146 and Kinsman. And so I knew Iris from childhood, and I ran into her, of all places, of course, in Heinen’s, which is the store that my mother always shopped in when I was growing, growing up, I always knew Heinen’s. I knew it right on Chagrin. So it was no big deal to me to go to Heinen’s. And so I had not seen her since 1966. When we graduated from high school. We went our separate ways. She went to Hampton, I went to Ohio State. And so she had her youngest daughter with her, who is the same age as my oldest daughter. We didn’t know anything about our lives in those 15 years since graduation from high school. And so I said, where in the world do you live? Because I knew that I was going to stay in Cleveland. I knew I was not going to live in Cleveland, the city of Cleveland. I knew that. So it was really about having my children in schools that I thought were good schools. And so she said she lived in Shaker Heights. And I was like, oh, really? So the conversation we had was brief. But she said something that was very important to me because she said it was the closest that she could find to what we had when we were children, which was this kind of idyllic life living in Mount Pleasant was just wonderful neighborhood schools, everything. Good schools, stellar schools in Cleveland at that time. And so that was all I needed. And so I really, literally looked in the newspaper for a place to live in Shaker. And I knew I wasn’t going to buy. Cause I didn’t think I was going to be here this long. So I said, okay, well, I’ll go find a place to rent. And found a place on Sudbury, Sudbury Road. So that was the first house that we lived in. Lived on the first floor there. Didn’t know anything about Shaker or anything. And it was August when I moved in. And really, based on her statement, that was it, the beginning and end. I didn’t have to have conversation with her. Otherwise, because we were children together, you know, we could not have had any more similar experiences. So I didn’t have to question anything about what she was saying. And she had been here. I’m not really sure what year she moved into Shaker, but she’s always lived in Moreland. And so she had been here for a few years. And so that was it. So I packed up from my mother and father’s house and just moved on to Sudbury Road and enrolled my children into Moreland Elementary. So, you know, my children were actually among the last students to actually attend Moreland Elementary School. And when I went to the school district to enroll them, I was offered an opportunity to send them to Fernway. Now, I didn’t know anything about any of these schools. This was like, you could have told me Mars, you know, wouldn’t have made any difference. I didn’t know where schools were, hadn’t paid any attention that closely to. To Shaker, coming up. Maybe I knew Onaway. I knew something about Onaway. I knew Shaker Square. I knew Van Aken, you know, when you’re growing up, but you’re not mobile when you grow up. You’re with your parents all the time. So I didn’t move around Shaker on my own, but many young people that I knew did because of where they lived in Cleveland that was very close to Shaker, very close to the Shaker border. And I knew, even in elementary school, I knew of families that moved in Shaker from my church, I knew families moved in Shaker. So it was not foreign to me. However, it was also not a destination for me. I didn’t think- I didn’t think I was gonna be in Cleveland, but clearly Shaker was not a place that I thought that I would live. Didn’t give it any thought. So. But, I mean, I had my thoughts. I did have my perceptions of Shaker, which were not positive. And so when she said that, I was like, okay, this is about my children. And so I moved into the house on Sudbury, and I knew once I was there for some time, and then even the house that we lived in on Ingleside, in Lomond, we were still renting, but I knew I wasn’t. If I was going to live somewhere, I was going to buy a house eventually. So, you know, it really was her, you know, kind of the, I need to listen to somebody I don’t have to ask any more questions to. And as it turned out, when I did go to the school district and I was offered to send the children to Fernway or Moreland, my question being me, who I am? I said, what’s the- What’s the African American enrollment at each one of these schools? I don’t know anything about, you know, who lives where, whatever. I knew that the community I was moving to was a Black community. I knew that that was kind of the beginning and end of it. I didn’t think about it, really. And so I was told that Moreland- I forget what the percentage was. Maybe 90, 95% African American, and Fernway was 20, 25% or whatever minority. I remember that word. Not African American, necessarily. And so I said, oh, my children are going to go to Moreland. You know, I. And I didn’t have to say anything to the registrar, but in my mind, if I had a choice, I was going to put my school in a- I was going to put my children in a school where they were the majority. Just. That’s it, you know, I mean, there are all kinds of connotations with the term minority. And so I was like, oh, no. You know, they’ll just. And they can walk, you know. So, again, it really, really went very far for me to know that my children could walk to school. School, you know, just to kind of reminisce on that experience I had had when I was a child. So they were second and third grade when we moved into Moreland. And so. And Dolores Groves was the principal, who was the best principal in Shaker. And so. And I, you know, started running into other people I happened to know. Francine Miller, farmer. I can, you know, call her name, you know, again, I knew her when I was a child, and she. And her daughter is a year older than my oldest daughter, and she was a parent with PTA. And she just said to me, just happened to see her in school. She says, you need to join PTA. I was like, okay. You know, I’m just one of those, okay, when’s the meeting? Okay, I’ll be there. And that was kind of, you know, the rest is kind of history. Right, Right.
Sonia Winlock [00:08:21] So you had mentioned- And it’s so funny that now we’re in Moreland right now. [laughs]
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:08:24] Yes, we are in the library. Absolutely. Yes.
Sonia Winlock [00:08:27] So I know you had made mention of your kids was there. Right? Was that- That was the year that they closed, or did they have a few years at Moreland? And how did that affect your household or your perception on Shaker?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:08:42] It was very interesting. It was very interesting because, you know, as a Moreland parent and as a part of PTA, one of the things that happens when people are engaged, you know, or volunteer, you know, information. You know, information. So it was- It was, you know, not a secret that the school district was closing some elementary schools. Enrollment was down across the district. And this was a decision that school board superintendent made at that time. So my youngest daughter, as there had been a decision to close Moreland and four other schools close Moreland, it would have occurred right as she was going into sixth grade. So she had finished the fifth grade. The school was supposed to close. We moved at the same time to Lomond. So I was concerned, even because we were outside of the area, if she’d be able to finish here. So I was told, and I was assured that doesn’t matter because she started in second grade. So the district would, you know, would honor that. And I didn’t have to go through hoops for that question. And so I wanted her to be able to finish. So the community really just rose up in unison and said, no, you know, you’re not going to close this school. And so the decision was made. The school board made the decision to allow the school to stay open, but then the next year it closed. So she was able to finish the sixth grade. My concern personally was that my child would have made two transitions two years in a row, you know, if she had had to go to whatever Lomond or whatever elementary school, and then the next year she would have gone to the middle school. I thought it would have been disruptive. And so I was concerned personally, you know, for my own child, you know, it wasn’t as much, you know, that she wasn’t a good student and everything. It was really just about. She always wants to, you know, for your child. And as it turned out, the school didn’t close, and so she was able to finish her last year, you know, so both of my children finished sixth grade, so my youngest started in second, and my oldest started in third grade, and they went on through. And actually, they had the same teacher for third and sixth grade, Pamela Anderson. Oh, unbelievable. I mean, this was, in my estimation, even though it wasn’t a decision that I deliberated much. I saw Iris Anderson. She told me she lived in Shaker. I moved. I said, okay, let me put my children in school. I put them in Moreland. And it was the best decision I could have made for the foundation of their education. And one perception I had as well is that it was important for my children, at least if I had a choice, and we had been in other school districts, obviously they were second, third grade. It was important for my children to be in the majority because I really. No, you know, we’re in America. You know, I knew, particularly in a school district like Shaker, that if they had been in the minority, they would not have known how it would feel to be number one. It was very important for me, you know, as young people, you know, to just know. Not that they always were, you know, but I. I wanted them to have the opportunity, and I didn’t think it was going to happen if they were in the minority. I knew it wouldn’t. I knew it wouldn’t, and I didn’t want that to be so they could be empowered and they would know, well, whatever comes along, I always know I can be number one, even if, you know, it doesn’t happen. But, you know, it’s there. And I also felt that the teachers in Moreland were really proud of this school. They were proud of the kids it was an exceptional elementary school. You know, I mean, I would stack it up to any other school in Shaker, clearly. And it had a math program that was the math projects program or whatever they called it. Okay, I think it was math projects. Each one of the elementary schools back then, before the school district closed the schools there were. The reason I was offered the opportunity to send the children to Fernway, even though we lived in Moreland, was because it was a pro integrative effort. So if an African American family wanted to help integrate a school, you know, they could. The bus would pick them up and they would take them to the school. And so I said, no, it’s not my responsibility to be real honest, so they’re going to the neighborhood. And so then I realized after being here that each elementary school, there were nine. Each elementary school had a particularly particular focus, that no matter where you lived in the district, if your children qualified or wanted to be in that program, they could be in that program. Well, like the Lomond. Not Lomond. Was it Ludlow? Ludlow. I do believe it was, you know, academic achievement. It was for honors children, something like that. I can’t remember exactly what the term was. Moreland was math. It was an accelerated math program. It was for high achieving children in math. And so Moreland was the only elementary school that had that program. And so here we live in the neighborhood, and my, you know, children could be tested to see if they would get in. The vast majority of the children in that program almost exclusively were white. So again, white families, you know, intentionally sent their children to Moreland. So it was not an all-Black school.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:14:38] It was not all Black. And so most of the children in math projects were white. But, you know, there were other students and other families who wanted their children in an environment where everybody was not white. So they just volunteered for their children to go here. But most of the white children were in math projects. Very few black children were in the program here. We’re in the neighborhood, we’re in Moreland, where virtually everybody’s Black. Very few children tested into the program. My children did, you know, and my oldest daughter got her degree in math. And there. It is not by accident. It is not by accident. I mean, she still knows Betty Hess. She still knows the teachers she had in elementary school. And both of my children ended up being in math projects. And so the foundation they got in elementary school determined how well they were going to do in the math curriculum. And it was very important for me that my children be able to have as much as Shaker could offer. Because it looked to me to be a school district that had opportunities. That’s all we needed. It was all that I needed as a parent. I wasn’t, you know, going to believe they were going to do everything. Of course they were going to make their choices. But academically, you know, if a school district doesn’t offer certain things, which is true, you know, all school districts don’t offer the same thing. They certainly don’t offer the same quality that, you know, Shaker had for a public school district. You know, Shaker had everything that appeared parent could possibly want. And, you know, I mean, it would have as much as any private school would and more because they have the socialization, you know, which a lot of private schools don’t have. But, you know, that program, again, not that I knew. When I moved in the district, I didn’t know anything about the math projects program. All I knew was, okay, Iris lives around the corner. You know, I’m gonna put my kids in school, okay? You know, my parents were retired, so, you know, I never had to take off work or whatever. You know, they come see the kids off in the morning. They be there. My mother be there in the evening. So, you know, the principal knew my mother too, you know, so. And I was involved with PTA. So that was what, you know, that was the connection. And then Girl Scouts, I ran into somebody last night who I knew as, you know, her daughter and my daughters were in Girl Scouts together. Right here at Moreland. Right here at Moreland. So, you know, in terms of community, it was everything that I could have imagined for, you know, a school and how the community and the school were indistinguishable. And then, of course, then it changed.
Sonia Winlock [00:17:22] And I- speaking more about Moreland. Once the school closed, what was the dynamics that affected the neighborhood?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:17:31] Well, we were gone. Yeah, we lived in Lomond. We lived in Lomond. So at that time, my children-
Sonia Winlock [00:17:39] And how long did you live in Lomond?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:17:40] We lived there for four and a half years or so, something like that.
Sonia Winlock [00:17:43] Okay, So when you came back, you can probably- Well, could you tell a difference from?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:17:48] Well, see, I didn’t- When I lived here initially, I didn’t get involved in the community association or anything like that. I knew about it. You know, I knew about it. And, you know, I was involved in something, you know. You know, it wasn’t always neighborhood based, but, you know, parent groups, black parents, you know, there was a group called Concerned Parents that had been around before I moved into Shaker, but, you know, it existed. I was like, okay, where do I go? You know, it’s just really who I am. Because, you know, they would always be concerned with the school district, you know, treating children fairly, everybody being educated, you know, the way they should or could be. And so I, you know, really would focus on my career, probably more so than my neighborhood, you know, okay, I have to pay the bills.
Sonia Winlock [00:18:38] Okay, Right, right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:18:39] Put shoes on kids’ feet. So, you know, then, you know, over that time, I did, you know, get to know Lomond somewhat. Somewhat. And. But then once again, Iris Anderson calls me one morning and tells me that the house next door to her is for sale. She knew I was looking for a house. She knew I was looking for a house. And we lived in Lomond, which was fine, which was fine. But we lived in a double house. And I had never lived in rental property ever in my life. So this was like, okay, well this is not gonna match forever. But I really didn’t know whether I could afford a house in Shaker, you know, because I’m single, you know, I was like, okay, well, you know, I don’t know how much houses are. And I knew how much if I bought a house, how much I would not go above. I was like, this may not be realistic because, you know, houses in Shaker cost a decent amount of money. So a realtor I was with, she was trying to get me to spend more money. I was like, I keep telling you, this is all money I had. So Iris called me one Sunday morning and she said, and I hadn’t thought about Moreland. Didn’t even cross my mind. It was, we lived there, we left. It never occurred to me to come back. And so, you know, I mean, it was logical to me that we lived in Lomond.
Sonia Winlock [00:20:04] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:20:04] You know, I mean, we were here for some time, time to go. Had a horrible landlord over on Sudbury. That was one of the reasons, you know, moved over in Lomond. Had a really good landlord. He offered the house to me. He sold it. He was selling it while we lived there. And he offered it. He said, I’ll offer it to you first. All I thought about was, I do not want anybody other than my family living in a house with me. It was a double house, you know, second and third floor. We would have probably lived on the second and third floor. But I was like, no, I don’t want to live in a multi family house. And so Iris called me, she said, the man selling the house is here. He was selling it on his own. And you know, she explained to me the circumstances. And I came over to the house and made a deal with him on the spot he was here. He opened the house up. It was empty. It was empty. So I could look at it and, you know, see whether they were hiding anything and they had already done what work they needed to point of sale, inspection and everything. They were at that point where it was almost finished. And I said, okay, how much do you want? And we shook hands on it, and that was it. Now, I’ll be real honest, my daughter said to me, you don’t go back. You don’t go back. You go forward. And I said, this is what I can afford. This is what I can afford. I hadn’t thought as much in terms of, you know, the neighborhood. I did. I have to be honest. I did. I was like, okay, but I need a single house. I need a single house. And if Iris is okay with me living next door, I mean, next door.
Sonia Winlock [00:21:50] First you start right behind us, and now you’re next door.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:21:52] Yes, yes. I was like, you know, I mean, I don’t know that I would. Told a friend of mine, you know, the house next door was just like, that may be a little bit too close. But I said, I guess I had never even paid attention to the house. We were together a lot, and I never paid attention to the house that was next door to her. So that was in 1990. So there you go. And so, you know, we moved in. And so, you know, I got to know the neighborhood then and did get involved or became aware of the Moreland Community Association, which, you know, had changed over time to Moreland on the Move Community Association. So I was involved with all of that, and, you know, knew some of the people who had been involved very early, Iris included. She was very involved, you know, very early. And so I, you know, kind of sometimes had kind of, you know, challenges with the neighborhood, you know, challenges with, you know, some of the things that I saw that I wanted to, you know, perhaps wish away, you know, in terms of, you know, behavior of some of the young people, like, with the playground down the street, you know, because a lot of the teenagers, they don’t have anything to do.
Sonia Winlock [00:23:03] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:23:04] You know, so that was- And then the community would address it, you know, and, you know, address it along with whatever the city could do. You know, I’ve seen, you know, the neighborhood change over the last, you know, several years because, you know, houses have been torn down and things like that. And, you know, certainly it has crossed my mind that, you know, I don’t have to be here. You know, I don’t have to be here. There have been times that I’ve had neighbors that I’ve called the police and said their music’s just too loud. You know, I don’t want to hear this. And, you know, Shaker police are very responsive. And so they come and they listen, and you knock on the door, whatever. And, you know, there are times, occasionally, but not recently, you know, times occasionally where you go, okay, folks are moving in and they don’t know what it means to move into Shaker. And I am one who will just. I don’t like my space invaded with noise. With noise. The other side of it is, you know, when I am in my house, everybody who knows me knows I love my house. That, you know, when springtime comes and I hear somebody’s music, if it’s not too loud, I’m good, you know, and if it’s not profane, I’m good, you know, because I’m home. Because I’m home. And it was very important for me just on a personal level, you know, to be somewhere that felt like home. And, you know, it clearly was the only place I had ever been since I left after high school. So I had been gone for, you know, I graduated from high school in 66, and it was not until I moved into the house in 90 that I really felt like I was home. So it didn’t really matter a whole lot to me what else was going on, you know, because the house, you know, and the fact that Iris was next door, and, you know, I knew other people in the neighborhood because my children went to elementary school, right. So I did know people didn’t necessarily know where they lived, but, you know, everybody would come to school. So you really do build relationships with other, you know, parents through their children. And so, you know, in that regard, I felt like I knew people who lived here. You have things in common. You have things in common. But, you know, it always felt that, you know, I want, you know, the best for the community. And I do believe that, you know, the city has to want the best for the community, too. Right now, at this time in our history in Moreland, I’m not sure what we would do if there were not a Vicky Elder and a Carmela Williams. Honestly.
Sonia Winlock [00:25:53] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:25:54] Honestly. Because they are the most committed, diligent, aware people that I know of, you know, who are going to always, you know, have the city attend to, you know, and regard, you know, Moreland in the way that it should be now, you know, they know when I say I don’t know about being in this neighborhood, blighted neighborhood, with these houses being torn down. This is just not working for me. And you say, wait a minute, Donna, you know, don’t go anywhere. I’m like, alright.
Sonia Winlock [00:26:30] Yeah, yeah because I believe they’re. They’re building houses.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:26:34] Yes.
Sonia Winlock [00:26:36] No, Hildana.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:26:38] Okay.
Sonia Winlock [00:26:38] In the spring, when they start.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:26:40] Yeah, right. That’s what I heard. It’ll be interesting, you know, as long as the architecture works, you know.
Sonia Winlock [00:26:47] Have you seen it yet?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:26:48] I saw the- Actually, my sister who lives in Cleveland, she lives in the house we grew up in. She uses the library constantly. So she told me, and I knew about the architectural, you know, contest and everything, and I came and looked at the artist renderings, and I was like, well, whose houses are these? Shaker. They don’t look like Shaker at all, you know? And I mean, what we have in Moreland is unique, right? And when I think that I’d just be somewhere else, I’m like, okay, not anywhere else in Shaker.
Sonia Winlock [00:27:19] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:27:20] You know, this is the only place where I could have a house like this and nowhere else. Plus, I don’t want to pay the exorbitant taxes somewhere else.
Sonia Winlock [00:27:28] Yes. You’ll enjoy your life.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:27:30] Yeah, yeah. My daughter lives over on Lomond. You know, my taxes are nothing compared to hers. You know, she has a nice house and everything, you know, but it’s. The taxes over there for me are prohibitive. It’s like, even if you paid for a house, you still pay for a house. 7, 8, $9,000 in taxes to me. Logic. That’s not logical.
Sonia Winlock [00:27:50] Not for me either.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:27:52] No, no, no. So, you know, I mean, I- And like I said, people who know me know that I, you know, love my house. I’ve rebuilt it at least three times.
Sonia Winlock [00:28:01] Really?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:28:02] Oh, goodness. It was built in 1926, you know, and, and you have to love an old house, you know, because there is no end. And I mean, I always want to do something cosmetic, but then I’m like, oh, no, I have to fix something.
Sonia Winlock [00:28:21] Right, Right, right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:28:22] Fix something.
Sonia Winlock [00:28:23] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:28:23] There’s never a time when there’s something that doesn’t have to be fixed. And even then, you know, after a while, you have to fix something else.
Sonia Winlock [00:28:34] Right?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:28:34] You know, so I have an idea, but I always come up with ideas about doing stuff.
Sonia Winlock [00:28:39] Okay, so I know you did say that you did have a. Maybe not. You did go to, like, a more than on the move meetings and some of the changes they were bringing up. Like, I remember Shelton park had that change. Now, were you involved in anything that happened at Shelton Park.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:29:02] Well, I was aware, you know, particularly. And even-
Sonia Winlock [00:29:05] I mean, with the new development, removing houses?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:29:06] Oh, yeah, the houses. Oh, yeah. Right, right, right. Because they had removed a couple of houses. Actually, one house was one of my- My youngest daughter’s friend lived there. They tore one of those houses down. So there were a couple of houses that were torn down, and then they came and tore down a couple more.
Sonia Winlock [00:29:26] Okay.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:29:27] I think there were a total of four, you know, to open up the space. And. And so, I mean, the park is. And I tell people, I was like, well, we have this regulation baseball field that’s not used anymore. You know, of course, when I guess the whatever Pee Wee league or, you know, would come, you know, and people would come and watch their children play. It doesn’t happen anymore.
Sonia Winlock [00:29:51] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:29:51] You know, now the park is used all the time. All the time. So, you know, it’s really special, right. You know, to be on a street that has a park that size. And now I have a grandchild, a grandson. You know, my daughter and my grandson live with me. He never goes to the park. Never, never, never, never. You know, and even when Iris grandson, they’re best friends. The whole story. We have a whole story. The two of us house next door to each other, and they’re exactly the same age. So goodness, you know, just happened. It just happened that way. And so I went down to the park with them one time last summer, you know, they weren’t going to go by themselves.
Sonia Winlock [00:30:35] No.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:30:35] You know, and when we did get down there, they feel like they’re big kids there, you know, they’re 11. Oh, yeah, they’re 11. So I was like, I’ll walk down there with you. You know, so they stayed for a little while. Then they’re like, okay, we’re done. You know, so they’re not going to. In my mind, you know, my children, when they grew up in Moreland, they would leave and they would be gone.
Sonia Winlock [00:30:58] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:30:59] And they were on Chelton most of the time. It was fine. No cell phones, no nothing. They were kids. They were elementary school kids. They would leave the house or kids would come over our house. And there were just kids everywhere, right? Everywhere. And so they were a part of the community a lot more. My grandson is not part of the Moreland community at all. He lives in the house. He likes the house. He goes to Woodbury now. You know, he went to Mercer. So again, you know, do you think.
Sonia Winlock [00:31:33] Because of school not being here?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:31:37] What?
Sonia Winlock [00:31:38] Do you think some may add to that? Is it because of the school not being here?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:31:42] Well, you know, clearly, if there’s a school in your neighborhood, you know, within walking distance, of course. You know, my youngest, my middle grandson, like I was saying, my daughter lives. Lives on Lomond. They live right across the street from the school. And he was still in elementary school when he went there. He’d just wake up and walk across the street or you go to the playground, you know,
Sonia Winlock [00:32:10] To give you that sense of community?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:32:12] Yes, absolutely. The sense of community. And, you know, in the library, you know, it’s good to have the library here because it still is our anchor.
Sonia Winlock [00:32:19] Right, right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:32:20] It’s our anchor. Make no mistake. And so, you know, it’s utilized extensively. However, my grandson doesn’t walk down the street to come to the library. You know, I mean, he. I don’t think he ever will feel like he’s a part of the Moreland, you know, community. He likes the house, you know, but when he has friends he plays with, but they’re not in Moreland, but he goes to school with the kids, you know, they’re all in the same. At Woodbury. So, you know, he did ride the bus for maybe a year, kindergarten or whatever.
Sonia Winlock [00:32:57] For Mercer?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:32:58] Yeah. To go to Mercer. And, you know, I think one time he got in trouble. My daughter was like, okay, he won’t ride again. You know, I mean, and it was not. I didn’t think there was anything wrong with not riding.
Sonia Winlock [00:33:10] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:33:10] Because it was another whole community, you know, that it’s like, well, you know, whatever. The bus driver can only do with so much. They have to drive.
Sonia Winlock [00:33:19] Right. You gotta pay attention to the road.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:33:20] And my kids never rode the bus because they walked to elementary school. And when they went to the middle school, I probably drove them. Or maybe they did ride the bus. I don’t know. They’d have to tell you that. I don’t remember, you know, because I guess. Yeah. From middle school, I guess maybe they rode the bus. We were living in Lomond.
Sonia Winlock [00:33:36] Yeah. Middle school.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:33:37] They probably rode the bus. They probably rode the bus. I don’t think I took them to school every day. Yeah, Yeah. I wouldn’t have done that. But, you know, then in high school, I did, because they were playing volleyball. I’d be picking up everybody.
Sonia Winlock [00:33:48] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:33:48] You know, I’d have a route and then I’d go to work. So I picked up quite a few kids to take them to high school.
Sonia Winlock [00:33:54] So what I hear, what I’m hearing in your interview, that a lot of it started off with education.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:34:00] Oh, goodness, yes.
Sonia Winlock [00:34:01] Yes.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:34:02] Oh, absolutely.
Sonia Winlock [00:34:03] And your children which brought a lot of things together for you within the community and actually, you know, maintain that.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:34:12] Oh, absolutely, absolutely. My, I was heading for Cleveland Heights.
Sonia Winlock [00:34:16] Okay.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:34:16] You know, when I had left Cleveland, like I said, I didn’t know I was going to come back. I would have come back to Cleveland if I hadn’t met my children’s father. And he was like, no, we’re not going to leave in Cleveland. So I just let that go. And so when I did end up coming back here, I thought I would be here temporarily, but then I was like, okay, I’m gonna live here. I headed for Cleveland Heights because I knew, you know, from childhood that’s the only orientation I had about Cleveland was when I grew up here. Because then I left, right? And so I knew of people who had moved to Heights and I said, oh, okay, I’ll look for a place to live over there. And it wasn’t really working out. I was like, okay, whatever. I didn’t know it. I didn’t know it. I didn’t know Shaker either. But you know, I mean, I didn’t run into anybody familiar in heights. And so, you know, and I like Cleveland Heights, but Shaker is really who I am, you know, and Shaker and Cleveland Heights are vastly different. They’re vastly different. And so it, like I said, it was a nondecision, but it was a good one. But it was, you know, it was more than education that was, you know, primary for me with my children, but it was also to feel at home, you know, it really was, you know, to be. Because I was familiar with it when I was coming up. So I did know things about, you know, Shaker that- And I knew young people who came here, you know, when I was in elementary school and, you know, through my church and everything. So there were things that I knew from, you know, just my history. And so I was like, oh, okay. And also when I was at Ohio State, actually, coincidentally I worked on campus a couple of times. One time I worked on campus. On campus? Yeah, Ohio State. I’m talking about Ohio State, not Cleveland State, okay. And one time I worked in College of Engineering at Ohio State and I happened to meet a young man who was a graduate of Shaker, and he was a graduate student and he was getting his master’s in math or whatever at Ohio State. And he came to me and asked if he could be my graduate student. I was like graduating from Shaker, you know. Now see here, I had been gone for a few years by that time, over 10 years. And I’m like, okay, first of all, I said, You know, you ain’t fair. You don’t have straight hair. You know, I mean, those are the folks that Shaker let in right early on. You know, I’m not blind to that, you know, so you don’t look like that. I tease him, and he says, it’s different now. And I was like, okay, so this was in late. I think he had graduated in ’72 or ’70, ’73.
Sonia Winlock [00:37:02] Okay.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:37:03] Yeah. He had been out of school, so this was like late ’70s. He already had his bachelor’s degree. And so, you know, I was like, okay, okay. You know, so I’m kind of learning, but I had no idea I’d ever live here. And so I was like, okay. So I thought about that. I was like, oh. He says, oh, yeah. You know, we had a good time. His family lived on maybe Hildana or Pennington. I mean, right in Moreland. He grew up in Moreland. You know, he talked about his experiences in high school a little bit. But again, I wasn’t. You know, I didn’t think I was going to be connected. All I knew was it was different. That was all I knew. I was like, oh, good for Shaker.
Sonia Winlock [00:37:44] And that’s what’s so important, I think.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:37:46] They were before.
Sonia Winlock [00:37:48] And I think that’s what’s so special about Moreland. Sometimes people don’t understand how special it is. Sometimes you take it for granted, and sometimes you gotta step back and then go forward and you can see the magic.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:38:00] Oh, yeah.
Sonia Winlock [00:38:01] And all the benefits that happens out of it.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:38:05] Yeah. Moreland really is special.
Sonia Winlock [00:38:08] Yeah, Moreland is special.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:38:09] It really is. It really is. You know, and, you know, moving forward, I think we, you know, some things I guess I’m not convinced of, you know, I don’t think our housing values are going to leap. You know, I. That is disturbing. You know, it’s disturbing to me personally, not because of Moreland, but disturbing that I live in a house where I will not benefit from the value of it. You know, I mean, it’s. You know, wasn’t that expensive, so, you know, paid for and everything. But, you know, even with that, you know, our houses are what constitutes our net worth, and our worth is less. You know, I mean, part of that is America, and Black people’s net worth is dramatically. I read something the other day, actually, in Time magazine. Actually, the young man who wrote the article on Black Panther is graduate of Shaker.
Sonia Winlock [00:39:09] Oh, wow.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:39:10] Yeah. Cover of Time magazine. And he made a comment and said that the net worth of African Americans is $17,000. And the net worth, or even the net worth of wealth of whites, the median is $171,000.
Sonia Winlock [00:39:26] Wow. That’s a-
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:39:28] That’s unbelievable. That’s unbelievable. And so, you know, it hits home when I think about how our houses, you know, for the most part, and it’s all based on what happened a long time going, discrimination, everything like that. You know, I mean, I understand all of that, but I’m in that neighborhood, you know, where it is that I have not, you know, kind of capitalized on, you know, having a house that’s worth in how, in forever. You know, it’s never going to. To be worth much. You know, it’s valuable to me.
Sonia Winlock [00:40:05] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:40:05] Yeah. But it’s not. And I’m, you know, kind of in the world and wish that it was worth more, you know, but again, I don’t wish it enough to leave.
Sonia Winlock [00:40:16] Right, right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:40:17] You know, because I’m like, not at this stage in my life.
Sonia Winlock [00:40:20] Right. Because I think maybe some of the values they have that living in the neighborhood, you know, it may not be like what they say a house is worth, but those other values, like the library.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:40:32] Yes.
Sonia Winlock [00:40:33] Being closer to. There’s so many other things that are not maybe looked at as value when you look at a home, but are very valuable when you are looking for a home.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:40:42] Yes, yes, yes. And, you know, I wonder, and I don’t, I don’t really know, you know, at this point, because I, you know, see “For Sale” signs here, there, whatever. I, you know, Moreland’s not a destination. I don’t think, you know, I don’t think people are looking at Moreland. I mean, maybe some people do-
Sonia Winlock [00:40:58] Yeah. Some people are looking at it.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:40:58] You know, what they can afford.
Sonia Winlock [00:41:02] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:41:02] You know, obviously, because-
Sonia Winlock [00:41:04] A lot of people love Chelton.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:41:06] Yes. It’s changed.
Sonia Winlock [00:41:08] Yeah. They love those porches.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:41:09] Yeah. Well, my goodness. Yes.
Sonia Winlock [00:41:11] Yes. Everyone loves the porches. Or the Cleveland doubles.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:41:14] Oh, absolutely.
Sonia Winlock [00:41:16] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:41:16] You know, I mean, that is something that makes it feel like home.
Sonia Winlock [00:41:19] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:41:20] And I may not sit on my porch that much, but I have one. I have two. One in the back, too. You know, I’m thinking about tearing it down, putting it and rebuilding it, you know, And I mean, that really is very important, you know, to preserve that. You know, that architecture is unique. You know, I mean, in Cleveland, there are a lot of houses that have porches, but Moreland’s the only community in Chicago in Shaker that has those porches. And whatever new development we get, [crosstalk] they have to have a porch. They have to have porches.
Sonia Winlock [00:41:54] Yeah. I’m jealous of houses that have porches.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:41:56] Oh, you don’t have one? Where do you live?
Sonia Winlock [00:41:58] What’s up there?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:41:59] Oh, how did you manage that? How did you manage not to have them?
Sonia Winlock [00:42:04] They just have a little stoop.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:42:06] Okay. So you must live on the even side. Which side? What’s your address?
Sonia Winlock [00:42:10] 3713.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:42:13] Okay. [crosstalk] Your age is the same as mine. So you’re near Scottsdale. Okay.
Sonia Winlock [00:42:14] Like right in the middle.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:42:16] Okay. Right, right, right. We walk right through somebody’s yard, huh? Yeah. The man behind me, you know, there’s a white house behind me. I put a fence up finally, because I think it’s a double. It doesn’t look like it from my side. I think it’s a double.
Sonia Winlock [00:42:36] The white house?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:42:36] White house.
Sonia Winlock [00:42:37] Oh, it’s a single.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:42:38] Oh, is it? Is it? And when I first moved into the house. Well, maybe a few years after I moved in, he would- He doesn’t live there. I don’t know if we’re talking about the same house. This is. This person doesn’t live in this house. Always keeps the yard up and everything, you know, really well. But he would take things out of the house and pile them up next to the garage very neatly. I was like, what is that? And I could see it from my house. I was like, I don’t want to look at that. I don’t want to look at that. Probably put a fence up. Fence up. And then he used to rake his legs back into my yard. I was like, what is up with you? You know, I don’t know. So I put a fence up and I was like, okay, let me deal with this. But then there was a house, I think. I don’t know. You know, I think of the neighborhood sometimes in terms of houses that are missing.
Sonia Winlock [00:43:31] Okay.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:43:31] Because very often the houses don’t look like they’re in such disrepair. They don’t look like it [crosstalk] from the outside. But then again, they won’t sell.
Sonia Winlock [00:43:42] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:43:42] And hopefully we’re finished with that. I think so. Yeah, I think so.
Sonia Winlock [00:43:47] I haven’t. I can’t think of- Well, it’s been a winter time. I haven’t seen any.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:43:52] Yeah.
Sonia Winlock [00:43:52] Recently. But it’s still. At one time, we’re still seeing.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:43:55] Right, right. And, you know, I mean, I focus on Chelton, you know, but I. I don’t think there are any. I mean, I look at it and it doesn’t look like.
Sonia Winlock [00:44:04] I’m thinking of Chelton, too. I remember as a kid they also had block parties. Did you ever attend some of the school parties?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:44:09] Well, you know, I, I will do the community events. You know, even the movie night.
Sonia Winlock [00:44:15] Okay.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:44:15] If I’m around, you know, I’ll do the movie night. My grandson will do, will do that. And then. What street, was it Ludgate? I always say, if I had to do it again, I would have bought a house on Ludgate.
Sonia Winlock [00:44:27] Ludgate is beautiful.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:44:29] If I had known all the houses were single-
Sonia Winlock [00:44:31] Yes.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:44:32] I didn’t, I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that. You know, I was like. I would have lived Ludgate, you know. Pennington, too, are they.
Sonia Winlock [00:44:39] Yeah, I think Pennington is all singles.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:44:41] Okay. See, I didn’t even know. And, you know, and bricks, you know, you know, some brick houses on those streets, it would be nice. I mean, all those things that would be like, okay, I know this because now I pay attention.
Sonia Winlock [00:44:52] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:44:52] But also, you know, some of the disadvantages of houses like mine, there’s no storage. You’re in the living room, and whatever you have, you have to create.
Sonia Winlock [00:45:04] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:45:05] You know, where some of the houses do have, you know, a lot more. And again, if I had known more, you know, when I was looking for a house, I would have really paid attention to some of those things that really made a difference once I did, you know, buy a house. So, you know, like I said, I rebuilt my house at least five times.
Sonia Winlock [00:45:25] Okay.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:45:25] But, you know, the neighborhood, I don’t even recall, you know, because I’ll get involved in things as they-
Sonia Winlock [00:45:27] Interest you.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:45:29] And last, I mean, more than always interests me, you know, I mean, because I live there.
Sonia Winlock [00:45:37] Right, Right. I was talking about some of the events.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:45:40] Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, so I try to pay attention. You know, I try to pay attention. And especially in the summer.
Sonia Winlock [00:45:46] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:45:46] You know, especially in the summer. But there was. I think it was Ludgate. So I will go- Whoever’s having about whoever in Moreland has a block party, I’ll walk around because it’s nice just to go outside and walk and. And then I find that I do know people in the neighborhood.
Sonia Winlock [00:46:02] You do?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:46:02] Oh, my God.
Sonia Winlock [00:46:03] Yeah. Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:46:05] Over on these other streets.
Sonia Winlock [00:46:06] Because you was mentioning a lot of people earlier.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:46:08] Yeah, right, right, right. And I know them from just being in the neighborhood. I didn’t know them. I didn’t know them before.
Sonia Winlock [00:46:16] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:46:17] And, you know, certainly not from when my children grew up. Yeah. Because I think a lot of the people that I knew have probably moved. You know, they lived somewhere else. I didn’t necessarily stay in touch with, you know, parents of my, you know, children, you Know, so- And, you know, my life while they were in school was about where they were, what grade they were in. And then, you know, I was on the school board. You know, that happened because I was at a meeting.
Sonia Winlock [00:46:46] Like, how is that being on it like?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:46:48] Well, you know, I guess mostly after I left Cleveland and just where I was at Ohio State or whatever, you just get involved because if you don’t have a voice, then somebody else speaks for you.
Sonia Winlock [00:47:01] Right. That is so true.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:47:04] Yeah. And one of the, I think, you know, advantages that I have, I think, is that I am, you know, able to move in more than one world in a lot of can. And so it’s good to have people who are. Who are really going to have the best interests of, you know, African American children and the community and not forget, you know, so. And single parents and, you know, the whole nine yards. Some things that people don’t perceive as Shaker, you know, that’s very much part of Shaker.
Sonia Winlock [00:47:45] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:47:45] And I feel like being on a.
Sonia Winlock [00:47:47] Part of school board is so important.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:47:50] Yeah, it’s a very important place to be. So when I was at a meeting with whatever group it was, there was a. I forget what it was called, but when our children were in high school, you know, a number of parents were concerned that, you know, there were young men who looked like they were doing things that look like gangs. Even though the young men would say, no, you know, that’s not what we’re doing. We’re like, well, we think that it is perceived that way. So, you know, parents came together in different people’s homes. You know, met with the superintendent at that time, Mark Freeman, and, you know, he would be willing to meet with whomever wanted to, you know, bring up concerns. And. And we were trying to address these concerns and having the school district feel that it was also important. Now, the parents, these were children of these parents. So people were not saying that this is somebody else’s child. Everybody was trying to make sure that they were coming up with what was best for all of everybody’s children. Somebody at one of those meetings, you should run from school, I said something. I don’t know what it was. You know, I have daughters, I don’t have sons, you know, and so I had thought about running earlier, you know, but you have to own a house to run. You can’t be a tenant. And so I didn’t think, well, just one day I’ll do that.
Sonia Winlock [00:49:21] That wasn’t something that, as a concerned parent, you came to and then you said-
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:49:26] And, you know, and it must have been a good time in terms of whatever my work was. And I was like, okay, whatever the age my children were, they were in high school actually, because I came onto the board in ’91. ’91. I was only on for one term. It was challenging. You know, I was on during the time that Shaker lost one of the levies. Yeah, we did not pass one of the levies. There was a watchdog group that was just accusing the superintendent of all kinds of, you know, misuse of funds or whatever, you know, and it convinced enough people that the levy didn’t pass.
Sonia Winlock [00:50:01] Oh, wow.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:50:01] Very, very difficult. Very difficult. But, you know, it was. It was a place where you are more informed about the entire district than concentrating on where your child is. And I mean, I’m in education, but I’m in higher education. And so it’s very different. Very different. I really honor those folks who work in K through 12. You know, my daughter is one of them. Both of my children work in the school, you know, but, you know, it. And I decided I wasn’t going to run again, you know, partly because it was right after that levy had failed. And I said, they are going to. Anybody who’s an incumbent is going to be the one who gets blamed everything.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:50:46] And I was like, I’m not up for that. You know, I’m not up for the, those kind of politics.
Sonia Winlock [00:50:51] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:50:52] You know, and there was a group called the Citizens Committee for years and years and years that really would vet people. They would encourage people to run for the board and then they would support them through their campaign. So I came through to the school board through the Citizens Committee. The Citizens Committee also made people feel like if you want to run, raise your own funds, do everything on your own. It’s more challenging than having the Citizens Committee support you. So now the Citizens Committee doesn’t exist.
Sonia Winlock [00:51:24] Oh wow!
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:51:26] As far as I know. It doesn’t. Yeah. But it has not been a long time. And their express purpose was to encourage people to run for the board. And then the committee would then nominate how many ever seats there were available and they would underwrite their campaign. And so that made it less stressful, you know, for me because I came through at that time. But, you know, Marty Kolb and I ran at the same time and we ran unopposed. So, you know, we didn’t have to worry about whether we were going to win.
Sonia Winlock [00:51:58] And I know you hosted a conversation for this year. Yes, school board. How was that too, to be on that end.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:52:08] Yeah, that was very good, you know, because Aisha Hideaway is my youngest daughter’s best friend. Okay, so they met in sixth grade, something like that. Okay, so. So I’m. Okay, so a lot of young people my children’s age know me because I was, you know, people come to the house or whatever, and. And so I had really approached her many years ago. You know, she has children people have to look at. You know, can I do this, too? And so she’s like, no. She called me Dr. Donna. Dr. Donna Mama. Dr. Mama Donna. That’s my name. And so, you know, then this time came around, came around, and, you know, and she stepped up and I said. And she asked me if I would, you know, because I was on her, you know, kind of campaign, and I was like, oh, this is nice getting, you know, getting involved again.
Sonia Winlock [00:53:00] It’s like a full circle.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:53:01] Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And she’s- She’s Aisha, really. She’s just bright. She’s just good, a thinker. She really is. She really is. I mean, she was the president of her graduating class, you know. I mean, yeah, she’s a cheerleader. She did kind of all that, you know, all of that. And certainly in advance from the school district, because she’s a product of Shaker Schools for children. I mean, you can’t ask for more. And somebody who is willing now, it is disturbing a bit that, you know, she’s only the second African American woman to be on the board. You know, I was the first 1990s. So, you know, I’m always like, wow, what is up? You know, people don’t step up. People don’t step. Step up. It’s not.
Sonia Winlock [00:53:48] But do you think any, like, just as when they approached you, like, oh, and it just felt like,
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:53:55] Oh, no. You know, I don’t know. I would have probably eventually.
Sonia Winlock [00:53:59] I did it anyway.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:54:00] Oh, yeah. You know, it just, you know, perhaps at that time when the group that I was a part of, you know, met with the superintendent, now his son and my youngest daughter were in school together. So, you know, you kind of know people. You know, people, you know, their kids. And his wife worked at Cleveland State, so it was like, it’s Shaker. It’s not- It’s really not difficult. If people come out and get involved, it has to be.
Sonia Winlock [00:54:34] That intimidation factor is not there.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:54:36] Yes. I mean, it has to be one of the easiest communities to just be involved. And it usually happens in school, you know, because you do it because your kids are there, and then you start going, oh, you know, I’m here. I’m like, in PTA or I’m doing something else, or however you get involved, you volunteer. There are endless ways that people can be engaged in Shaker, and people are like, you know, more. Just do more. But, you know, some of it is really just the people. People don’t have time. You know, people are not necessarily. They don’t see themselves in a political position. However, people are very political, even getting involved in their communities.
Sonia Winlock [00:55:16] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:55:17] You know, it’s very- Anytime you’re interacting with the city, you know, it’s about, you know, lobbying and advocating for your, you know, the good of your. Everything. Yeah. You know, the good of your community. So it doesn’t have to be an elected position, but, you know, and for a long time, I could not get involved because I was in school. I was like, no, no, sorry, I’m out. I just dropped out of life for a long time, a very long time. You know, I had work in school, and I was like, I can’t do anything at else. You know, and my world is also Cleveland State, so, I mean, I kind of do that, and that consumes me. I have to do that a lot less because I am retired. I retired from my administrative position there five years ago now, you know, I’ve been teaching, and it’s just more than, you know, anybody needs to do. I need to figure that one out.
Sonia Winlock [00:56:18] Okay.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:56:19] Yeah. But. But I was excited when you asked me about Moreland. I was like, yeah, I know.
Sonia Winlock [00:56:24] Yeah. Because I- Coming up with the idea of hearing people know the history of Moreland, giving them a sense of pride.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:56:33] Just.
Sonia Winlock [00:56:33] Have you mentioned earlier, you know, some people don’t understand the whole thing of you’re living in Shaker Heights, you’re living in Moreland. That’s powerful. And I feel like if more people tell their stories, people will understand, like, wow, I live in this community. Maybe they look at it and see it in a different light.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:56:51] Oh, absolutely. You know, and I think the- It’s- It’s misunderstood. One of the things I had shared with somebody not too long ago, and I’m on the library levy committee, too. So again, it’s. And I was on the library board, you know, so I do stuff like that because even when I was on the school board, I was like, oh, I’d like to be on the library board one day. It’s not an elected position. I will throw my hat in the ring and see what happens, you know, So I didn’t want to go through any kind of real politics. But again, you know, it’s being somewhere and feeling like, you Certainly learn more about the institution, but you also want to be responsible to the community for what it has to offer. And so, you know, I was making a comment about how I had been at another meeting many years ago with someone who had grown up in Shaker, you know, white man who grew up in Shaker, and he made a comment about how, I mean, grew up in Shaker, you know, this is not a young person. And he made a comment about how all the houses in Moreland were double houses.I was like. No, they’re not. And it really let me know that people in Shaker don’t know Shaker.
Sonia Winlock [00:58:03] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:58:03] You know, I mean, I was like, wow, that’s interesting. As a person who went to the high school, you know, came back. Many people come back. Many people grow up in Shaker and they go away to college, they get married, they convince their spouses, I’m going back home, and they come right back to Shaker. You know, many people work in Shaker, and people love it, and they send their children to schools and everything. And that doesn’t happen everywhere. No, that really means that people believe in this community. And he had grown up in Shaker, lived here. He’d never been in Moreland. He had never been, obviously, you know, to assume that all the entire community only had double houses. I was like, wow, what a misconception.
Sonia Winlock [00:58:49] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:58:50] And it wasn’t as though he lived far. [laughs] You know, he lived somewhere like on Onaway or-
Sonia Winlock [00:58:57] Oh, wow. Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:58:57] Yeah. It wasn’t like, way far away. Way up in Mercer, way up there. You know, I mean, none of it’s far because it’s small. The other whole city is small. But to just be unaware of a whole community of people that he also didn’t know, you know, he probably went to school with, you know, a lot of people, but never obviously went to anybody’s house.
Sonia Winlock [00:59:18] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:59:19] So that says something. I mean, that’s another whole conversation, you know, I mean, the- You know, the. I look at race things maybe a little bit different, you know, I mean, over time, you know, it works out okay. You know, it’s a reasonably enlightened community. Reasonably. Not as much as I would like for it to be, you know, but one of the things that I, that I say sometimes is, you know, about the Shaker magazine? I said, well, you know, I wonder if realtors really own this magazine, because it doesn’t look like who we really are.
Sonia Winlock [00:59:56] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:59:57] You know, but I mean, that’s fine.
Sonia Winlock [00:59:58] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [00:59:58] Because, you know, we have to always make sure that, you know, people of means want these old houses.
onia Winlock [01:00:09] Right, right.
onna McIntyre Whyte [01:00:11] Shaker has some old houses, and there are people who have to love them. Understanding that it is very expensive to maintain an old house.
Sonia Winlock [01:00:23] Yes, it is.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:00:24] Regardless how much your house is worth. It’s expensive for me to maintain my house, you know, but it is something that, you know, the community has to make sure that the houses that are worth a lot more than mine always are occupied.
Sonia Winlock [01:00:39] Right. And maintained.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:00:41] Absolutely, absolutely. So it’s, I mean, it’s a, you know, unique community that could be studied in so many different ways.
Sonia Winlock [01:00:49] Right. And I love the fact that when you mentioned, like, just being involved and how easy it is and just, I feel like hopefully with the interview, people can see just taking that one step and everything else will come if you want to get involved in that community and having that support. Because like you say about sometimes with the racial divide or with seeing Shaker as, like, sometimes like an elitist community, you don’t feel that my voice matter.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:01:19] Right.
Sonia Winlock [01:01:20] But it really does matter.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:01:21] Doesn’t.
Sonia Winlock [01:01:22] All you have to do is just say hi and people will help you or lead you in that direction. And hopefully people will see, like, whoa, just being in school board. They will want to get more involved. And I think that will help also with Moreland people just getting more involved and just wanting to get involved because they live there.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:01:41] Oh, absolutely. I mean, it’s home.
Sonia Winlock [01:01:43] It’s home. Yeah, it’s home for me as well.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:01:45] It’s absolutely home. How long have you lived in, in Moreland?
Sonia Winlock [01:01:48] I lived in. I, I, I, I grew up here. So, I was born here. 1979.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:01:54] Okay. Okay. Wow, what schools did you go to?
Sonia Winlock [01:01:58] I went to Moreland for kindergarten and I went to Malvern.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:02:01] Okay.
Sonia Winlock [01:02:02] And then I went to Mercer.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:02:04] Okay. Okay. Wow.
Sonia Winlock [01:02:08] Yeah. So hearing your stories about Moreland and the school board, it gives me a little bit more insight of probably what was going on at the time, so.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:02:18] Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, it was, you know, it was very easy community to get involved in.
Sonia Winlock [01:02:24] And I still remember the present, the principal from Moreland, she did leave a Definitely an impact.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:02:28] Oh, yeah. Dolores Groves.
Sonia Winlock [01:02:30] Yes. You can see her today. I’m like, oh, my God.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:02:31] I remember you from-
Sonia Winlock [01:02:34] When you were saying that that did leave such an impact.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:02:37] Oh, goodness, yes. You know, I mean, it was. I didn’t have any idea, you know, when, when I enrolled my children, I didn’t look up and see who the principal. I didn’t care. You know, I knew this. I knew the school was down the street.
Sonia Winlock [01:02:50] Right.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:02:50] That was it. Okay. My kids can Walk to school and, you know, then the other things. Running into somebody I knew as a child, she said, come and come to a PTA meeting. And that was. That was kind of it. Because parents were always going to come to things that had to do with their children. You know, we were here in the gym, auditorium, whatever. You know, many, many, many times when you would just see. See familiar faces of people, and it.
Sonia Winlock [01:03:16] Seemed like being invited from a friend is just all it takes.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:03:19] Yeah. And, you know, I’m sure that at some point I would have just gone, but it was soon. It was soon. And, you know, for that year that my children were in Cleveland, you know, I lived there with my parents, and I was like, oh, I see. I can’t do this. I can’t do this. You know, my youngest daughter had a substitute for half the year. They didn’t even have a permanent teacher. And by the time she did, I didn’t really care, you know, I didn’t get to know I knew the substitute, you know, and my oldest daughter had a really good teacher, actually a teacher who lived in Shaker. You know, she had a really good teacher, but she didn’t learn anything. I was like, I can’t do this, you know, and I had to work. So, you know, and at that time, people weren’t talking about homeschooling or anything like that, you know, So I was like, okay, I’ll. I have to go somewhere where the schools are good. And Shaker was really traditional to me. Took a minute for me. I was like, oh. I was like, oh, no. You know, because I’m really more progressive than I thought Shaker was. You know, my children have been like, in a Montessori type school when we lived in Columbus, and then we moved in California, and they were an African school out there. And I was like. And so I moved to Shaker. That’s like, super conservative. And I’m like, oh, goodness. I’m like, oh, goodness. I said, they have desks. I was like, this is new. And they test. This was way back then. My children are in their 40s. So I was like, oh, wow. They give them all these tests. I was like, I don’t know about. I can do this. Because it was just so unlikely when I thought of education. But I said, okay. One of the things that happened with my youngest daughter when we moved into the district, she was second grade. And so I get a letter from the school, and it was very ambiguous letter. I’m reading this letter, I’m like, okay, what is this saying? Basically it was saying, your child is not reading at the level that we expect children in Shaker to read. I was like, you talk about my child. I was like, let me read this more clearly. So then they said, you know, you have to give permission if you want her to be pulled out of her class and she’ll get special attention for reading. I mean, I’m glad at least I didn’t get too angry about telling me my child couldn’t read. So I said, okay, okay, we’ll go with this. So Riji Routman was the reading teacher, and my youngest daughter was pulled out. And all my daughter and all the kids in this reading group needed was a scratch and sniff sticker. And they were happy, and it motivated them to read. And after she was in that program, and she was probably second grade, I think it was just second grade, it changed her life.
Sonia Winlock [01:06:11] Wow.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:06:12] And after that point, every year, I’d talk to Mrs. Gross and I’d say, can my oldest daughter be in the program? She’d say, well, let me go look at. She’d be humoring me. She’d say, let me go look at her test scores. And she’d come back. She’d say, Donna, there are too many other children who need this program. I was like, but she doesn’t like to read. She said, that’s not the purpose of the program. It’s not about. I said, she doesn’t like to read. Now, my youngest child just loves to read because she was in this wonderful program, and she ended up getting her degree in English Literature. I mean, the things that happen at Moreland needs repeat the rest of her life. Math and English, you know, which in my world are the most important subject. And so this school really laid the foundation for them. I felt like after this, and it wasn’t. They were normal, you know, they were normal, healthy kids. I mean, and so the rest of it, the foundation to me, and I knew that at least enough about children and how young people learn and everything, I said, if they get the good foundation, then they have the potential to do well after that. It doesn’t guarantee it, but, you know, certain ways that they look at themselves and their ability to achieve, they have to own it at a certain time. And if they own it, then, you know, it makes it easier for the parents not to always push them, you know, but if they own it. And, you know, I mean, and I had girls, too, you know, I have to admit that it’s. Yeah, sometimes a little easier with girls, you know. So, you know, after that, then you know, things were, you know, went well. Things went well. And we all still live in Shaker.
Sonia Winlock [01:07:54] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:07:54] My grandchildren, my oldest daughter, my oldest granddaughter is at Ohio University. And I know that she is serious. She studies, you know, I know that that’s something we know she’s going to do. And she would complain about this. She was like, they’re just always so serious. She just felt like, you know, it should be more fun. I was like, well, you will thank them for being serious.
Sonia Winlock [01:08:18] Yeah. Yeah. Because when you go to college, you’re like, really?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:08:20] Are you kidding me?
Sonia Winlock [01:08:21] We learned this in high school.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:08:23] Yeah, Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. You leave here and at least you know how to study. There may be some repeats here and there, even there. Yeah. So, you know, they, you know, they did well in college, so, you know, I expect the next generation to as well.
Sonia Winlock [01:08:37] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:08:38] So it, you know, it all worked for me. So, you know, I’m always thinking of my next project at my house.
Sonia Winlock [01:08:40] Oh, okay. Okay.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:08:42] You know, and I kind of check out what other people. People are doing too, you know, because that little corner of our street, because I’m close to Scottsdale.
Sonia Winlock [01:08:55] Yeah.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:08:55] You know, we pay attention, see who’s doing what, and, you know, it’s. It’s. I think it’s just fascinating because people love their houses.
Sonia Winlock [01:09:03] Oh, yeah. Because. Oh, well. Yeah. I can’t tell you this long, but. So thank you so much, Donna, for this enlightening information. And I know any parent or anyone has a child in Shaker will definitely take this information and run with it, or if they’re having any type of, you know, questions, hopefully you answer them to see the benefits of, like, what they can offer at Shaker, and then also just being involved in their neighborhood or just in the community, how that benefits everything as well.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:09:41] I thank you for interviewing me today. And you’re involved, and it’s nice meeting a neighbor right around the corner for me. That’s wonderful.
Sonia Winlock [01:09:50] So now I can call you my neighbor.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:09:51] Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, we have the same address. That’s what’s really fun.
Sonia Winlock [01:09:58] And a lot of similarities as well, right?
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:10:00] Absolutely.
Sonia Winlock [01:10:01] I just want to say thank you again today.
Donna McIntyre Whyte [01:10:03] You’re quite welcome! Thank you.
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