Abstract
Miriam Rosenberg grew up in the Moreland community. She shares stories about being involved in Dr. Spock's program, the close friendships she made living in the neighborhood, and attending the Moreland schools.
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Interviewee
Rosenberg, Miriam (interviewee)
Interviewer
Lewis, Kamla (interviewer)
Project
Moreland History Project
Date
2-28-2018
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
37 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Miriam Rosenberg interview, 28 February 2018" (2018). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 904012.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1167
Transcript
Kamla Lewis [00:00:01] So, good afternoon. Today is February 28, 2018. My name is Kamla Lewis, and I am interviewing Miriam Rosenberg at the Shaker Heights Public Library for the Moreland History Project. Ms. Rosenberg, could you please state your full name for the record?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:00:20] Miriam Rosenberg.
Kamla Lewis [00:00:23] Thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed. And I’d like to begin by asking you to tell me a little bit about your background, when and where you were born, and how you ended up in Moreland.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:00:35] So I was born in Cleveland at Rainbow Babies and Children’s.
Kamla Lewis [00:00:38] Was it called Rainbow then?
[00:00:40] No, it was called McDonald House, so. [phone rings] Oh, God, let me turn this off. Sorry. Should I talk about Dr. Spock now or- No. So, actually, Dr. Spock was in the delivery room when I was born.
Kamla Lewis [00:01:01] Is this Dr. Benjamin Spock, the Dr. Benjamin Spock?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:01:04] Yep. I don’t know if he saw me popping out, but he was there. And so we initially lived in a carriage house at South Woodland and Lee that was, like, on the Shaker Lake. And my parents decided when we were six months old that we should move because we would be able to, like, crawl out the door and fall in the lake. Not at six months, exactly, but that could have come. So we moved to a house on Milverton and rented, and I actually think either next door or on the second floor because it was a duplex. One of the Harlem Globetrotters lived either next door or above us, and we loved that. And he, at one point, I think, got us tickets to go to a Harlem Globetrotter game, which we also loved. And then when we were five, my parents decided to buy a house also on Milverton, but closer to Chagrin, like between Ashby and Chagrin. And so we started living there when we were five, and that’s when we started kindergarten at Moreland. So we also had a woman named Bunsley who took care of us from the time that we were 10 days old until we were 14. My parents both worked, and, you know, my dad was a professor at Case. My mom was a social worker. And, you know, it’s not like we were well off or anything, but they decided that with twins, they were going to get someone to help. And it actually was funny the way they got her, the way Bunsley came into her life, which was my dad, before he became a professor, owned a delicatessen on Buckeye called Marvin’s Delicatessen. And a woman named Bunsley, who was actually, it was Bunsley was her full name. Bunsley was her twin sister. So Bunsley used to come in to shop for someone she worked for. And my dad, when my mom was pregnant with twins, said, oh, do you by chance have a twin sister? And she did. That was Bunsley. So that’s how she came into her life. And I remember fast forwarding to that first day of kindergarten at Moreland that Bunsley, later, I don’t know how much later, told us that we walked to school. We always walked to school because it was so close to our house, and that’s kind of what people did. And she followed us. Like, she walked behind us and she followed us to make sure that we would get there. And .
Kamla Lewis [00:04:14] So you were a twin being taken care of by a twin?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:04:16] Yes.
Kamla Lewis [00:04:18] Everybody has Dr. Benjamin Spock in their hospital room when they’re being born.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:04:24] Exactly.
Kamla Lewis [00:04:24] How would that occur?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:04:27] Well, because I think that my parents were asked to be a part of the study that we were in.
Kamla Lewis [00:04:36] What study is this?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:04:37] The study was there were 10 doctors. Each doctor had two families. And I don’t know if, like, Dr. Spock had two families, and the other doctors did, too. And I don’t know how many kids they each had, but So I think Dr. Spock had us and then another family, the Dieners. And I think it was two kids in their family. And the study was about looking at the development of children from birth through adulthood who were given, quote, unquote, optimal care. So I think the agreement, like, to be in that study was together before we were born. So the start of it, I think, maybe was him being there at our birth.
Kamla Lewis [00:05:31] And so what did optimal care feel like, and what was it like growing up?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:05:36] Well, it was. Yeah, right, right. Well, we were. We had frequent visits with Dr. Spock, like, going to his office, I think, in the beginning, even weekly. And we were, like, filmed all the time, unlike 16 millimeter film. And I actually have. Or Ruth does a video that my mom put together of that. And it was so unbelievable because they would, like, film. Like, there’s an example of me. Dr. Spock would have his black bag, doctor bag. And there’s footage of me playing with that, like, for so long. I would, like, open it and close it and carry it and get a block. And that was all filmed, like, every move we made. And that actually happened a lot. And I don’t know, when I look back on it, I guess I feel a little bit like I grew up in a. I don’t know if you would say a bubble, but, like, being studied and observed all the time when I look back on it. And, I mean, it was interesting, but maybe I don’t know.
Kamla Lewis [00:06:52] Now, did you have any other siblings other than your twin?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:06:54] No. No.
Kamla Lewis [00:06:56] Okay, so at least there was nobody else wondering why you guys got special treatment?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:07:00] No, no, no, no, no. And then there were other people involved in the study, too. I mean, other professionals. We also went to- We always called it Saturday school, and it was held at Hanna Perkins [School], and it was a Saturday school for all the kids in the study. So, you know, the kids of all the 10 doctors, you know, would go and, I mean, it was kind of like preschool and different activities and, you know, that’s a photo that I have of that. And I have vague recollections of that. Just like a stupid little thing where they would serve us graham crackers, like, as a snack. And I remember my sister, like, flit. You know, how you have to- You learn how to be, like, proper, that you pass the basket and you take out a cracker. And I remember my sister Ruth taking one out, and she flings the basket, like, down to the other table. And there’s footage of that. I mean, they filmed that.
Kamla Lewis [00:08:07] So do you keep in contact with any of the other families who are involved in this study?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:08:09] I didn’t really know. I mean, we knew the Dieners, and I don’t. I don’t remember the other kids.
Kamla Lewis [00:08:17] So they weren’t all from Shaker, unlike you and the Dieners?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:08:19] I don’t think. No, no.
Kamla Lewis [00:08:23] And how- So this was from birth, literally all the way till- How long did you?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:08:29] Well, until we were 18. But then the doctors all got so close to the kids that they used to have, like, annual meetings where they would get together. And that was already when Dr. Spock had moved. But he would, like, come to our house and, you know, like, pull out his orange legal, I mean, his yellow legal pad and sit and, like, ask us questions and take notes. And, you know, that happened for a number of years. And it actually is kind of funny as he got older. I remember one time where he came during one of those visits, and we’re talking and he’s writing and he fell asleep.
Kamla Lewis [00:09:13] Wasn’t that interesting anymore, right?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:09:14] And so I looked at Ruth and we were like, uh-oh. But he would come to, like, I, for a while as, like, in my late teens, early 20s, did ceramics, and I worked in a pottery studio and was an apprentice in this, like, funky greenhouse out in the middle of nowhere. And he, like, came there to see me and to see, like, where I was living and what I was doing. And, you know, they just all got- So the doctors got so attached to their kids, you know, that it just continued.
Kamla Lewis [00:09:49] Members of the family.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:09:51] Right. And the last time I saw him was- It was his 90th birthday. So it was long. Like even my husband met him. So that was like maybe 24 years ago. I can’t remember when he died, but yeah. So the contact obviously was not as frequent as during the study, but the relationship continued for a long time.
Kamla Lewis [00:10:20] So when you were a teenager, for example, and your friends would hear that you were being studied, what were the reactions to that? Or did you not tell them?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:10:31] I, you know, I don’t really know because I don’t remember. I have to say how what happened exactly. More during the teenage years. I remember the younger years much better. Yeah, that’s. I really. My recollections are of more during like preschool years in grade school, less so than like junior high and high school.
Kamla Lewis [00:11:01] And were the findings, were there ever any findings that ended up being published and shared with?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:11:08] That actually was kind of an issue and it’s written about in the biography that there were parents, including my mother, that kind of felt like I read this, I didn’t know it until I read it recently. That felt that it wasn’t- The study was not scientific enough and that there weren’t. I know my mom, in reading that, she said this. I never knew. It was kind of bothered that there were no real research-based kind of findings from the study. It was too like Dr. Spock, if anyone would recommend to him, you know, I think this should be more, you know, real researchy and, you know, not just- I can’t remember even what you call it. Not- It should be more structured and not just like, like this experiential or whatever you call it. He didn’t like that. He wanted it to be the way, the loose way it was. That’s how he liked it. So there was something that was found on like breastfeeding, but I don’t even know what it was. I have to say we would ask my parents. And this is written about too in the biography. Like what? So what did they find out? And everyone was kind of like, I don’t know. I have no idea. Absolutely no idea.
Kamla Lewis [00:12:33] So you weren’t able to apply it in your own life either?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:12:37] No, no.
Kamla Lewis [00:12:42] So you mentioned that you were had this ongoing relationship with Dr. Spock outside of when he moved away from the Cleveland area. Were you at all aware or did you hear stories about his involvement in any of these social justice causes in the Cleveland area?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:13:02] Well, actually, the way that we were invited into the study was that my parents were really active like in the whole peace movement and for their age, especially at that juncture or whatever, really, really liberal. And you know, they were both social workers and really involved in all that was going on politically and socially. And that was their connection to him. And that’s how he got invited to be in it, because they knew him from that. Yeah, so I was aware of it. And then more in later years just like reading stuff about like, you know, his anti nuclear stuff and then, you know, the second wife that he married and. Yeah, different things about that.
Kamla Lewis [00:14:01] So do you know why your parents chose to move to Shaker?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:14:12] You know, I can’t remember where they even lived before they had kids. I have no idea.
Kamla Lewis [00:14:20] So you mentioned that they ended up renting a house shortly after you guys were born on Milverton.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:14:29] After that carriage house-
Kamla Lewis [00:14:30] Right, that lovely carriage house that’s still there right by the lake.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:14:33] On the lake where we could have drowned.
Kamla Lewis [00:14:37] And you moved into the Moreland neighborhood. What are your sort of earliest memories of the neighborhood? You mentioned that you lived in a double with Harlem Globetrotters nearby.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:14:49] Right, right.
Kamla Lewis [00:14:50] Do you remember other people in the neighborhood?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:14:52] I do. I remember we had a really, really good friend named Judy Holmes who was African American and she- I remember, you know, being Jewish, we like as kids always thought it would be so fun to celebrate Christmas and we didn’t. And so I remember one Christmas Judy’s family invited us over like Christmas morning and Ruth and I were so, so thrilled. I guess we were like five and we got there and they had a gift for each of us and that thrilled us too. And it turned out it was a pair of underwear. We were so happy, I mean, so elated by that. And so yeah, she was a really good friend. And I think there was also. Oh no, we moved to the other house. I don’t remember the friends as much in the house from like six months old to five as much as I do. The friends- The friends- When we moved when we were five, that’s when the friends all became like- I mean, my best friend lived across the street and like, I mean, I have a lot of memories of that whole grade school time.
Kamla Lewis [00:16:15] Now. Milverton is a rather busy street, even though the busy street is not super busy.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:16:21] Right.
Kamla Lewis [00:16:21] What was it like then? You could walk across the street?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:16:25] Oh yeah. We would run across the street, we’d ride our bikes, we’d- I mean, it didn’t feel like a busy street. I don’t know. Maybe more now. I don’t know if it’s like a cut-through street or my house is gone. I mean, it’s like gone. Did you- Have you seen that?
Kamla Lewis [00:16:41] I’m probably responsible.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:16:43] Really? Are you?
Kamla Lewis [00:16:46] We’ll talk about it after.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:16:47] Oh, okay. That was very strange. I don’t even drive by there now because it kind of freaks me out. Just, I don’t know, like, yeah. And that there’s our house is just like- Maybe they built something else. But it was like last I saw it, it was like a concrete slab and- But yeah, I remember just like riding my bike. And I also- I was thinking about this when I was coming. I remember the postman, Marvin, used to wheel- It was like when postmen would like wheel their bags, you know, I don’t know if you remember, like the cart. Yeah. And we loved him and he really liked us. And we would sit in that bag with the mail and he would always put a piece of candy for each of us in the bottom. So we’d sit in the bag and we’d reach down and we’d like pull out this candy. And it was- We were so thrilled by him. And I remember learning how to ride a bike, my dad helping me, you know, when I was like five, learn how to ride a bike going up the hill.
Kamla Lewis [00:18:02] So then at age 5, you start at Moreland School, which is where we are right now.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:18:04] Right.
Kamla Lewis [00:18:06] How is it different? I mean, where were your classrooms?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:18:10] Well, in here somewhere.
Kamla Lewis [00:18:11] I mean, we’re upstairs. Was your class downstairs? Do you remember?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:18:13] I remember them all being downstairs. And I remember walking in the door. And kindergarten was to the left and the other rooms, I mean, I totally remember my kindergarten room. And I remember my kindergarten teacher and Ruth’s kindergarten teacher.
Kamla Lewis [00:18:36] Oh so you were in separate classes?
Miriam Rosengerg [00:18:37] They always put us in separate classes. They- There was a rule at More-, in Shaker all together that they didn’t put, well, although in high school we were in a class together. But at Moreland, no, we weren’t.
Kamla Lewis [00:18:50] And in those days, did you enter from Van Aken through the real front entrance?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:18:56] So there was an alley. I don’t even know. I don’t know where that would be right now. So we would walk down Chagrin and there was an alley that we would turn down and it would go into like a big, what is now the parking lot. And there was a playground. There was tetherball. And we would walk in what I think now is like that side door by the parking lot. Yeah, same.
Kamla Lewis [00:19:26] And what was the composition, the demographic composition at the time of the school of Moreland School?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:19:34] Like racially, you Know, predominantly African American.
Kamla Lewis [00:19:45] So this is what year now?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:19:46] From ’65 until like ’71 or 2. So we were kind of the lone white children, I remember, which we, we never knew anything different. I mean, I actually, I don’t think I had like a white friend until I was like 12 probably. Because the street was predominantly African American and so was the school. I don’t know what the percentage was. I do remember one time my parents looking at Ruth’s class picture and she was the only white kid in the class. And they said, just out of curiosity, are there any other white kids in your classroom? Ruth said, I don’t know. And she. I remember that, or I don’t know who, like, brought this, whether my parents told me or whether Ruth remembered it. She would come home from school and beg my parents to be black. She so badly wanted to be African. I don’t know if you mind my saying, black or African. Yeah. So, yeah, she- And, oh, I remember funny things about that. So just in terms of the demographics, I would say, I don’t know. I don’t know what percentage. I’m not good with that. But my very best friend, Bonnie Gooch, I don’t know if that she was interviewed, but she-
Kamla Lewis [00:21:13] Is that her maiden name?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:21:14] Yeah, yeah. Bonnie Gooch and Monica Bowles lived like-
Kamla Lewis [00:21:16] You don’t know married names?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:21:20] I don’t know married names. No. So they were- Bonnie Gooch was my absolute best friend. And I mean, we spent so much time together. We used to- Her parents used to buy her- I hope I’m not like all over the place with- Okay. Her parents used to buy her really nice clothes. Like, she even had spats on her shoes to match her dress. And I loved it. And we wore- I mean, we didn’t look like, you know, homeless children, but we wore a lot of hand me downs. And it wasn’t like fancy clothes, was not like a part of our upbringing. And so Bonnie, though, loved my clothes. And I used to wear this, like, plaid skirt with a horse pin, you know, this kind. And I would wear it like all the time. And Bonnie loved it. And we all the time would go. There was a Gulf gas station at the corner owned by John. And we would wake up early enough to walk to the bathroom of that gas station and switch clothes. And it was so. And so I would go to bed, like in my tights and a slip at that time, because you weren’t allowed to wear pants. And I would sleep in that so that I could get up and be ready earlier to be able to meet her and go to the gas station and change clothes.
Kamla Lewis [00:22:44] And your parents never caught on to this?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:22:46] Well, my parents didn’t care, but her parents, when she would come home in my clothes, that was not good. It’s like, we buy you these nice clothes, Bonnie. And why are you putting on- I mean, they liked us and everything, but it was like, why are you wearing that, you know, ugly plaid skirt with the horse pin? So that was-
Kamla Lewis [00:23:07] That Gulf Station is where the Enterprise car rental place-
Miriam Rosenberg [00:23:11] Oh, is it? And there was also- There was a store called Glen’s or Glynn’s. And that was a stop.
Kamla Lewis [00:23:25] That was a candy store, right?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:23:26] Yeah, and that was a stop. And I think the granddaughter of the owner went to Moreland. She did, Amy? Okay, well, so kids, including us, would stop there on the way to school in the morning and buy candy, potato chip soda. Like-
Kamla Lewis [00:23:43] You know, they were a lovely couple, and if somebody didn’t have money, they would slip those things.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:23:46] Yeah. And there were- It was, like, bins that you could, like, wooden with, like, little square. It makes me feel like I’m 100 to say all that, but it was, like, so fun. And that was, like, the stop on the way to school and the stop on the way home. So. And then I remember I had another really good friend, Alicia Dawson, and that’s still her name because she’s not married. And, you know, we would sleep at her house. I mean, Bonnie and I would. We would sleep at each other’s house all the time. And this is so funny. I remember we were really into, like, playing house and being babies. Like, one would be the mother and the other would be the baby. And I remember walking up. There was a Gateway drugstore on, like, you would watch the Moreland turn right closer to where it would turn into Kinsman. And we went there and bought baby bottles so that we could feed each other. And it was so funny. We would, like. She would feed. She’d mash up, like, pork chops and mashed potatoes and feed me. And we had these baby bottles, and it was, like, a whole thing.
Kamla Lewis [00:25:00] So kids at elementary school were getting an allowance in those days?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:25:04] I don’t know how. Yeah, I think so. I mean, like, nothing. But, I mean, how much could a baby battle cost? No, I think we did. Yeah.
Kamla Lewis [00:25:12] So you mentioned that you had your Bunsley, your caretaker, who would walk you back and forth from school.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:25:18] No, only that first day.
Kamla Lewis [00:25:20] Oh, I see. So other than that, the kids just walk themselves.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:25:24] Right. And we would go home for lunch most of the time. Yeah. So she would be there and she would make us lunch, you know, like soups and sandwiches and stuff. And you’d be home for, I don’t know, like an hour, whatever, and then walk back. There were- You could opt on maybe a Friday or something to stay. And they had like hot dogs. But otherwise most kids went home. We did.
Kamla Lewis [00:25:52] And were there after school activities or things that you all did as well after class?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:25:58] Oh, my God, I don’t even- You know what? I don’t remember that. I remember being in the Girl Scouts, but I don’t know if that was like after school, Moreland related or not. I don’t remember. We did stuff unrelated to Moreland. Like we took tennis lessons in the Terminal Tower. There were tennis courts. Do you remember that? In the basement of Terminal Tower. And we would take the Rapid downtown, my sister and I, and take tennis lessons there. And we took the Rapid all the time when we were in elementary school even.
Kamla Lewis [00:26:34] What was Shaker Square like at that time?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:26:39] It was really- It was nice. I don’t remember what was there.
Kamla Lewis [00:26:43] Was the cinema there at that time or did you go to the cinema?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:26:47] I think it was. No, I think it was, but I think there was one here. There was a bowling alley. That’s something that Bonnie and I did all the time. We bowled. And one summer we decided that we were going to bowl every day. So we got up every morning and we went to the bowling alley. I don’t know where we got that money either, but it was like. I don’t know why we decided that let’s like bowl every day. So yeah, that was a big activity.
Kamla Lewis [00:27:19] And when you finished elementary school at Moreland, did you continue on in Shaker schools or did.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:27:25] Yeah, we went to Woodbury and then we went to the high school.
Kamla Lewis [00:27:32] So you went all the way through. And where would people- Where would the family shop generally in those days?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:27:37] Like us, like, grocery store shopping and stuff? There was- There was like a Pick ’N Pay, I think on Chagrin. That was a grocery store. And where- Oh, there was a place called the Village Market that was a little grocery store that we loved and my mom loved too. And then I, like my grandmother was alive, so Fisher’s was another, like, grocery store. And we would go there. Severance for like other kind of shopping was like vibrant then. And we would go there and there was like a fountain in the middle. You could throw, throw pennies. I think there was like a Higbee’s and there was a Woolworth’s and we would take my grandmother there. There was also this cafeteria that we loved and my grandmother would give us, Ruth and I, each a dollar, which was like- It was like, as thrilling as the underwear at Christmas. Give us a dollar. And we could go into that Woolworth’s and buy whatever we wanted. So, yeah, that, I think. Oh, and also at Shaker Square, there was a Halle’s department store and we would go there. There also was an FAO Schwartz there.
Kamla Lewis [00:29:02] Is that where the bookstore eventually was? Is that where the F.A.O. Schwartz was?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:29:06] I think so, yeah. Oh, I know. There was also a restaurant at Shaker Square called Clark’s. And they had a candy chest. Not a candy chest, a toy chest. So anytime you went there, you’d get a toy. That was a thrill. Small things were, like, so thrilling, you know.
Kamla Lewis [00:29:27] Joy of being a child.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:29:28] I know. And of being, like, growing up in a simpler time, you know.
Kamla Lewis [00:29:35] Did your family go to synagogue?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:29:37] No, we were- My parents were, like, so alternative in that way. I mean, we grew up, I would say, feeling very culturally Jewish. And we would, like, celebrate holidays, sometimes Friday night eat Shabbat dinners. We, because my dad was at the university at Case, we would go to Hillel. And then they had us go, and this was in elementary school, to this really, like, alternative kind of Sunday school that was run by Case students who lived in a house together that I guess they referred to. I don’t know if you know, Havurah, that it’s like a, like a house, I mean, of Jewish people who decide to have like, a community, kind of like of living together, cooking together and doing- I don’t know what you would compare it to. But anyway, they had a Sunday school for kids. Kids, like, in their house and in the yard. It was this totally funky thing. We would, like, build a kibbutz out of, like, wood in the back yard and make candles in the basement and bake bread and, you know, and we loved it. Then for a while we went to a place called Workman’s Circle, which was- Yeah. And I don’t know, yeah, I don’t know how we ended up there because my parents also, I think, had- I mean, there was a whole socialist, I think, kind of component to that whole group of- Like, it was very Yiddish speaking. And I don’t know, I don’t exactly understand it all, but my parents had just, like, a lot of, like, liberal friends who some were maybe, like, defined socialists. And my son said to my dad one time, he goes, grandma was a communist, right? And he was like, she was not a communist. But they were friends with some people who were. So it was really funny because he got kind of bothered by that.
Kamla Lewis [00:31:47] I asked because We’ve been trying to track down information about the two synagogues that were in the neighborhood.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:31:52] Oh, the one? Yeah. Oh. So my dad would- Beth El, or was it Beth Ab?
Kamla Lewis [00:32:00] One was Beth El.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:32:02] Beth El, yeah. Oh, there. Yeah, there. I know people who would know the history of that. And then what’s the other one?
Kamla Lewis [00:32:11] I have to look up my notes. I don’t think I have those with me.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:32:14] That’s okay. We know. And that was an Orthodox synagogue. And yeah, we didn’t. Maybe my dad went every once in a while. My dad grew up in an Orthodox family and kind of like was not into it, you know.
Kamla Lewis [00:32:28] Later I also heard from somebody else that there were these Jewish homes. They were a social place that would gather socially within the residential part of More-
Miriam Rosenberg [00:32:41] Of Milverton and, not of Milverton, More-
Kamla Lewis [00:32:43] On southern Moreland side. So across from the school this way. And they were the forerunner to the Jewish Community Center now.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:32:51] To the JCC? Oh, really? I don’t know anything about that. My dad might, but I don’t.
Kamla Lewis [00:33:03] Somebody else that we’ve learned lived in the Milverton-Ashby area was Mr. Jingeling.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:33:08] Where you- Yeah, you know, I don’t remember that he lived there, But I loved Mr. Jingeling.
Kamla Lewis [00:33:18] What’s not to love about Mr. Jingeling?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:33:21] Because you would go, wait, now, wait, was he on TV? Yes, he was on TV. And then also during Christmastime, if he would go downtown late to Higbee’s and there was the Twigby Shop, he would be there, I think. Yeah. I don’t think I realized he lived in our street, but. Oh, yeah, yeah, I loved him. Oh, that’s. I remember a song with that too. It was like, Mr. Jingeling, how you ring-a-ling, master of our keys. I don’t remember the rest. And I don’t even remember where we heard that song. Like on TV. Oh, sorry. Yeah.
Kamla Lewis [00:34:08] Now, earlier, before the interview, you mentioned that Moreland had a song too.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:34:14] Oh, yeah, I can sing. But the tune of this is, I am proud of Moreland, is Moreland proud of me, what we need are boys and girls, Na na na na na, when we work, when we play with our school friends here. Good citizens we shall be so Moreland proud of me. Something like so Moreland, Moreland be so proud of me, yeah. And it’s funny, with this friend Eileen, who I told you about, we would like sing the song.
Kamla Lewis [00:34:52] It sounds like you have great memories of elementary.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:34:55] I do, I do, yeah. And Bonnie, I mean, that friendship was just like, so great.
Kamla Lewis [00:35:05] And do you know where she is?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:35:06] I don’t. And you know, when it was, like, so integrated. My guess is you’ve heard this, but, like, so integrated in elementary school, although, like, there was optional blessing in 1972 or one. And so we stayed, and, you know, the black kids in our school had the option of being bused to some of the white schools, and white kids came in. But then, like, you went to junior high and it all separated. You know, you walk into the cafeteria, there were, like, the black tables and the white tables, and it just. And it’s still. I don’t think it’s that way as much now, but my son went all through Shaker, and he said there was some similar stuff, and it’s like, God, what happened? How was there all this integration? And then you get to that point and there’s this separation, and so I wasn’t friends with Bonnie anymore at that point. Yeah.
Kamla Lewis [00:36:15] Well, is there anything else that you’d like to share with us?
Miriam Rosenberg [00:36:21] Not that I can think of. I’m sure there’s more stuff, but I can’t.
Kamla Lewis [00:36:30] We greatly appreciate that the time and-
Miriam Rosenberg [00:36:31] Oh, sure.
Kamla Lewis [00:36:31] The memories. And we look forward to your sharing those photos with us.
Miriam Rosenberg [00:36:37] Okay. So what do you want to see? The Dr. Spock ones. The- [recording ends abruptly]
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