Abstract
James Chin, an immigration lawyer, describes growing up in the Shaker Heights community. He discusses his family's businesses, living in the back of his mother's laundromat, and his involvement with the community as an immigration lawyer.
Interviewee
Chin, James (interviewee)
Interviewer
Lewis, Kamla (interviewer)
Project
Moreland History Project
Date
3-23-2018
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
32 minutes
Recommended Citation
"James Chin interview, 23 March 2018" (2018). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 904013.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1168
Transcript
Kamla Lewis [00:00:02] Good afternoon. Today is Friday, March 23rd. My name is Kamla Lewis, and I’m interviewing James Chin at the Shaker Heights Public Library for the Moreland history project. Mr. Chin, could you please state your full name for the record?
James Chin [00:00:21] James Chin.
Kamla Lewis [00:00:22] Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed today. And I’d like to begin by asking you to tell me a little bit about your background, when and where you were born, how you came to Shaker.
James Chin [00:00:35] It’s a long story.
Kamla Lewis [00:00:37] My favorite time.
James Chin [00:00:38] I was born in May of 1950, St. Luke’s Hospital. My parents were first-generation Chinese immigrants, so they spoke very little English. And we resided in Chinatown for the first five years of my life on East 31st and Superior and then we moved east. Both were entrepreneurial. My father was a cook and my mother opened a laundry on 153rd in Kinsman, which is right on the border of Cleveland, Shaker Heights. She opened the laundry there, and we lived in the back of that laundry from 1956 to 1962.
Kamla Lewis [00:01:34] So what brought your parents all the way from China to Cleveland, Ohio? I mean, we know there was a lot of immigration to the west coast and California, but do you know much about how they ended up in Cleveland?
James Chin [00:01:48] I don’t. It’s true that we had a very small Chinese community when I was young, but somehow they wound up here and they met and I have many fond memories of my childhood. They were very good parents, very hard working.
Kamla Lewis [00:02:08] Did they meet here in Cleveland?
James Chin [00:02:10] Yes, they did.
Kamla Lewis [00:02:12] And do you remember much about what Chinatown was like in those days in the ’50s compared to how it is now?
James Chin [00:02:20] Yes, in the ’50s it was just Rockwell Avenue between, I think East 21st and East 24th. One block of a few restaurants, a very small grocery store. That was it. And there was a community center there, maybe a couple scattered houses that housed nonprofits, various Chinese non profits. But very, very small community now.
Kamla Lewis [00:02:48] Was it called Chinatown at that time?
James Chin [00:02:50] Yes, it was
Kamala Lewis [00:2:53] From the outset. Really?
Kamla Lewis [00:02:54] And you said you had great memories of growing up in Chinatown.
James Chin [00:02:59] Well, I don’t remember Chinatown too much. I just went to kindergarten in the Cleveland school system, Case Elementary School. And then we moved up to Kinsmen on 153rd when I was six years old.
Kamla Lewis [00:03:15] And what you said the family was very entrepreneurial. And so they opened their business, the laundry and the restaurant on Kinsman. Do you know why that was a good location for the restaurant?
James Chin [00:03:29] Well, I think it was attractive because it was a pretty nice neighborhood back then. I think my mother was the first Chinese woman to open her own business. In Cleveland back then, there were a lot of laundries and restaurants. At about that time, I think my father had a partnership in a restaurant in Chagrin, just east of Lee Road on the south side of the street called the Kin-Lee Restaurant. And I remember going there on various occasions.
Kamla Lewis [00:04:08] Okay, so the restaurant was already there before the laundry. You guys started the laundry business?
James Chin [00:04:15] I think the laundry was first, and then the restaurant opened shortly, you know, a few years after that.
Kamla Lewis [00:04:20] And what made the family then eventually move to Ashby Road in Shaker Heights?
James Chin [00:04:26] Well, we lived in the back of the laundry, you know, so it’s a storefront. It’s a storefront. But I think my father had heard that Shaker had a very good educational system. And although I thought Cleveland was fine, I went to AJ Wyckoff on 147th in Kinsman. But he. When I was about fifth or sixth grade, it’s my understanding he tried to rent an apartment, but no one would rent to us. So at that time, there was a lot of changes in the community, a lot of white flight. And so he was able to buy a house on Ashby, right on the border. We were the first house on the west side of the street. It was a double. They were able to get some financing, and that’s where I moved into. And that’s when I started to go to Moreland in the sixth grade.
Kamla Lewis [00:05:31] And you said it was a double, so they rented out the other.
James Chin [00:05:36] Yeah, yeah, it was an up and down. So they rented the first floor out to a tenant. There were a number of doubles like that on the street at porches. When we were young, people hang out and kibitz on the porches. Unfortunately, my kids never had that experience.
Kamla Lewis [00:06:00] So you said you had good memories of your childhood. Tell us what it was like on Ashby Road at that time.
James Chin [00:06:09] It was a nice community, I think the kids, we all hung around together.
Kamla Lewis [00:06:15] Were there a lot of kids on the street?
James Chin [00:06:16] There were a fair number. I remember the families. And we played a lot of sports. So I was always out playing various sports. We had a field, empty field, so that’s where we played. And later on, Shaker actually leveled the field and put in a playground there. So a lot of kids would come by and play.
Kamla Lewis [00:06:43] Is that the playground that’s on Ashby now?
James Chin [00:06:45] It probably is, yes.
Kamla Lewis [00:06:48] So first it was just a vacant lot.
James Chin [00:06:51] Yes, we still would play there. Yeah, we played a lot of sports. It was a lot of fun.
Kamla Lewis [00:06:58] And the Moreland School is right here where we are currently sitting, which is now the library. How did you get to school each day.
James Chin [00:07:06] Day I would walk. I mean, in fact, I would walk because we didn’t have a car, our family didn’t have a car. And I would walk from a. In the morning, I’d come back for lunch and walk back. So that was the way it went. My sister was spoiled. She got to eat out. Didn’t have to walk back and forth.
Kamla Lewis [00:07:33] How long did you have for lunch that you could walk home and die?
James Chin [00:07:36] I must have been an hour, I don’t know. So, yeah, we would walk. And.
Kamla Lewis [00:07:44] Were there several kids that would walk home at lunchtime?
James Chin [00:07:46] I don’t remember that. I don’t think so. I don’t think so. But, you know, that’s what I did.
Kamla Lewis [00:07:53] And since you didn’t have a car and yet, you know, your family had just laundry, you had the restaurant. How did people get around at this point?
James Chin [00:08:04] Take buses. I remember taking buses. Remember taking the rapid downtown sometimes. So once in a while someone would give us a ride, but we didn’t have a car till after I graduated from high school.
Kamla Lewis [00:08:20] Now, was there much of a Chinese community in Shaker at the time?
James Chin [00:08:26] Not at all.
Kamla Lewis [00:08:28] Were there any other Chinese families at the Moreland School when you were there?
James Chin [00:08:33] Not at all. So, I mean, that came years later, But I was always the only one.
Kamla Lewis [00:08:39] How did that feel?
James Chin [00:08:42] Well, you know, most people were okay, but, you know, sometimes people would say things to you back then because of your ethnic background, and they would make comments to you not, you know, very, you know, less than a blue moon, but that would happen.
Kamla Lewis [00:08:59] And I first heard about your family because there were people we were talking to who patronized the restaurant and remembered very good memories of having the restaurant and being there. Were there a lot of other businesses in the area? What was that shopping area like at the time?
James Chin [00:09:22] Kinsman was very active back then. I remember there was a drugstore on the corner of 154th in Kinsman. There were a small grocery store. There were a couple of delicatessens. They were very prevalent back then. And you could always get corned beef. And they had very good food. Yeah. Next to us was a Rambler car dealership. There used to be a Franklin’s ice cream on the corner of 154th and Kinsman. Yes, it was active back then.
Kamla Lewis [00:10:03] And was this a sit down restaurant?
James Chin [00:10:06] It was a very small restaurant, mostly takeout, but there were a few tables. But my father worked at the Kin-Lee first, and then it caught on fire and it burnt down. So then he came back and opened a small takeout place next to the laundry.
Kamla Lewis [00:10:24] And did you have a favorite dish from the restaurant?
James Chin [00:10:27] No, I just ate whatever they cooked for me. I wasn’t picky back then.
Kamla Lewis [00:10:35] It’s been interesting how much people’s memories of their childhood are tied to food. We have heard that there was a candy store on Chagrin almost opposite the school, owned by the Glynn family. Do you recall that?
James Chin [00:10:51] Okay, I’m trying to think. There might have been a small one just west of it on the other side of Moreland. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I vaguely remember that.
Kamla Lewis [00:11:04] So what sort of activities did you do outside of school when school was over? What would the kids do? Said you played sports in the neighborhood.
James Chin [00:11:13] Yeah, well, I didn’t move to Moreland until sixth grade, so I didn’t really know the kids there. Back then, the policy was that if you went to a Cleveland school, they would put you back a year. You had to repeat a year in order to. To go to a Shaker school. But fortunately, I didn’t have to do that. So, you know, there was a lot of smart kids at Moreland. But after school, I would go home and play with my buddies on the block, and we had a good time.
Kamla Lewis [00:11:52] Did you ever go to the movie theaters or the bowling alley that was in this area?
James Chin [00:11:56] I didn’t go to the bowling alley. My sister might have, but we definitely went to the movie theater. And I think every Saturday we would go and they would give out prizes to kids and stuff. It was fun. Yeah, there were drawings and stuff. Yeah, I remember that.
Kamla Lewis [00:12:11] Really?
James Chin [00:12:13] Did you ever get into it? I think I did once. Yeah. I went on stage and then got something.
Kamla Lewis [00:12:18] You mentioned that when we talked earlier that Mr. Jingeling lived on Ashby Road when you were living there.
James Chin [00:12:28] That’s correct. He lived next door to one of my best friends, Jimmy Horan. And he lived. It was a very small house, and we seldom ever saw him. But somehow we knew that was. Or maybe my friend knew that that was Mr. Jingeling.
Kamla Lewis [00:12:45] And did you know what Mr. Jingeling was?
James Chin [00:12:48] Oh, sure. Yeah, everybody did. I mean, you know, back then, Captain Penny, Barnaby, all this, you know, there was a lot of stuff going on. Go downtown, go to Halle’s. And Mr. Jingeling would, I think, would be there. Yeah, we knew who he was.
Kamla Lewis [00:13:05] And how long did the family keep the laundry?
James Chin [00:13:10] Well, let’s see. I graduated from Shaker in ’68. Unfortunately, my mother became ill my senior year. Was diagnosed with lung cancer. I think it was maybe the chemicals and the business, because our machines were in the basement. Little ventilation we had industrial soaps, bleaches and so forth. So she had never been sick. But then she got sick and she died shortly after that, just after I graduated from high school in 1968. So I ran the laundry for a year. I was going to go to college, but I deferred that for a year so that I could run the laundry for a year until we hired someone to take over running the laundry.
Kamla Lewis [00:14:11] As a kid just coming out of high school, what was that like, trying to run a laundry? Had you been-
James Chin [00:14:18] Well, I’d always worked in the laundry, so I mean, we had a couple employees and, you know, you do what you have to do.
Kamla Lewis [00:14:29] And where did you go to college and what did you end up studying?
James Chin [00:14:33] I went to Northwestern, so they allowed me to defer a year. In my first year, in the spring of 1970, we invaded Cambodia. Kent State happened. We had a massive student unrest which opened my eyes to the world. And we went on strike. And I was a pretty naive kid back then, and it kind of opened my eyes to the anti war movement and a lot of things. At that time, my first year, I was in engineering school. I have a number of friends who were also in engineering school. But after, during the strike, we all dropped out of engineering, transferred to arts and sciences. So that was a traumatic period in my life and changed my life.
Kamla Lewis [00:15:35] So you said it opened up your eyes. I mean, it clearly was a very tumultuous time. Tell us a little bit more about what changed for you, what you learned and thought you saw at that time.
James Chin [00:15:50] Well, I became very anti war and as a matter of fact, after the strike, I took a number of courses on the history of Vietnam. And all this rhetoric about domino theories and so forth was in my mind ridiculous. I mean, over 50,000 young American boys died there. And in retrospect, I wonder why. You know, Muhammad Ali said it was white people sending black people to kill yellow people. I mean, I got caught up in all that and had a different perspective because I wasn’t that, you know, knowledgeable about the. But after that I became more knowledgeable and it’s tragic that we got involved in that war.
Kamla Lewis [00:16:48] So even though you had grown up in a first-generation Chinese family, did you know much about China and the East?
James Chin [00:16:59] Not much. So I transferred to arts and sciences, became a history major. I took a lot of courses on ancient history. The Vietnamese were just trying to get rid of the foreigners who had ruled them for many, many years. So they’re fighting for their home and for us to go there and I don’t know. It just seems absurd. As do many things.
Kamla Lewis [00:17:30] Now, was that something that your father and you would discuss? Did you have a perspective on?
James Chin [00:17:38] Not really, because he was anti communist, so he didn’t like Mao Zedong. He liked Chiang Kai-shek, but, you know, we didn’t talk about the history that much with him. He was always working. Most of my parents were very hard working.
Kamla Lewis [00:17:56] As often immigrant families are.
James Chin [00:18:02] Absolutely. They’re very hard working.
Kamla Lewis [00:18:04] And so you mentioned that there were several protests, et cetera. Were you involved? And was this at Northwestern or also in Cleveland?
James Chin [00:18:14] It was at Northwestern. It was, you know, we shut the school down, blockaded the streets, went out trying to get antiwar petitions signed, and we saw all kinds of demonstrations. We had a very dynamic leader in Northwestern named Eva Jefferson. She’s very well known, so it was quite an experience.
Kamla Lewis [00:18:36] Have you remained an activist?
James Chin [00:18:39] I try a little bit. I mean, I don’t pick it or anything, but I try to, you know, I try to be very active. Yes.
Kamla Lewis [00:18:48] And so you said you ended up studying history and what did you eventually end up doing professionally?
James Chin [00:18:55] After I graduated from undergrad, I went to law school, came back home because my father was ill, and so I went to Case. I’ve been practicing as a solo practitioner for 40 years.
Kamla Lewis [00:19:13] What’s your specialty or law?
James Chin [00:19:16] Well, I’ve done a little bit of everything. I used to represent a lot of the small businesses, the Asian businesses in Cleveland. More recently, I’ve been getting referrals from a Latino nonprofit. They have a lot of indigent clients. So for a relatively nominal fee, I started taking referrals because they’re being placed in deportation. Now government is on a massive mandate to deport undocumented immigrants. So I started taking those cases through years ago, and now I have a few hundred cases. That’s a lot.
Kamla Lewis [00:20:04] Have you seen an uptick since the new administration?
James Chin [00:20:08] Oh, absolutely. I mean, President Obama tried to enable, by executive order, immigrants who had U.S. citizens, spouses and children here who had not committed any serious crimes, and allow them to stay here, prolong their cases. But since the new administration has taken over, that’s changed completely.
Kamla Lewis [00:20:37] Did you ever think that you would see this type of backlash against immigration?
James Chin [00:20:45] It’s very sad because I’ve always worked with immigrants. I’ve seen our Chinese and Asian immigrant communities, and they’re very hard workers. They’re family-oriented, educational oriented. They probably statistically commit far fewer crimes than the average American community. And yet every time there’s chaos in our society, they’re always, you know, there are always moments to oust the immigrants. They’re scapegoats, it seems. And that’s happened several times in our history.
Kamla Lewis [00:21:33] So a lot of the attention currently has been focused on the Latino immigrants, as you mentioned. Is the Chinese community locally been supportive of trying to protect immigrant status?
James Chin [00:21:50] Well, I think there are a number of national organizations. I’ve been very active in Asian organizations, both locally and on a national level. So Latinos have their group diversity, various ethnic groups have sophisticated organizations and they all support each other even though it doesn’t affect the Chinese communities directly as much as the Latino communities, certainly we have an Asian American Bar Association, National Asian Pacific American Bar Association. They’re very active and they support all immigrant communities.
Kamla Lewis [00:22:38] You mentioned that your family was in Shaker on Ashby until 1969. Where did you move to next?
James Chin [00:22:47] Well, I moved away to school and actually our house is no longer there. I think the city. I think after I left for school that the city purchased a home and they knocked it down and put a green for green space there. So it’s no longer there. So I think my father and my sister moved over to Westbury and we rented the upstairs of a house on Westbury.
Kamla Lewis [00:23:15] And one of the topics we have been trying to explore is the city’s acquisition of these houses and demolition. Do you recall anything about how the families were compensated and how that negotiation happened?
James Chin [00:23:32] Well, they were supposedly getting fair market value. I don’t know. There’s. Like I said, you see a tremendous change in the areas. When I went to AJ Rykoff in first grade, it was predominantly white. When I left in fifth grade, it was predominantly Black. And you see the changes in the Moreland district as well. So they were. I don’t know why they did these projects. I think they did a big project on Sutton where they knocked down many houses and put in a new development. I don’t know. I don’t know. I wasn’t- I didn’t really pay them. I wasn’t here for part of the time and I don’t know why they did this. Well, I have an idea they were trying to upgrade the community according to them. So whether that happened or not, I don’t know.
Kamla Lewis [00:24:35] There were some cases where the houses we understand were not actually demolished. They were picked up and moved to Cleveland. Do you know in your family’s case whether that happened or if it was actually demolished?
James Chin [00:24:47] Not really. Although I remember as a kid seeing houses once in a while being moved like that. You know, it was amazing that they can do that.
Kamla Lewis [00:24:57] We are trying to track down images. In fact, do you actually remember the address of the house?
James Chin [00:25:04] I’m trying to think, because it might have been 34 or 66, but I’m not sure. We were the first house on Ashby, on the west side of the street, so we were the southernmost house.
Kamla Lewis [00:25:23] So you mentioned earlier that you yourself have kids. Did you raise them in the Cleveland area?
James Chin [00:25:30] Yeah, I continued to live in Shaker. So after I got out of school, I lived in an apartment at Warrensville Center, close to Scottsdale, for a number of years. And then, let’s see, I got married when I was 28, so 1978. So we had four kids. So we first lived in the apartment. Then my father became very ill and we moved to. We bought a house on Lynnfield. So we lived on Lynnfield for a number of years. That house became too small after a while. We bought a house on Onoway in Ludlow, in the Ludlow area, and we lived there. So we had four kids. All four went to Shaker, and they were very proud of going to Shaker. They were very happy.
Kamla Lewis [00:26:37] So what would be some of the changes that you’ve seen from when you were growing up in Shaker to when your kids were going up here?
James Chin [00:26:49] Well, I think Shaker is kind of unique because it’s one of only two suburbs that I would live in in Cleveland. When I was young, Cleveland was a very segregated city. West Side was predominantly white, and there were Blacks on the East Side. Of course, that’s changed. But Shaker, you know, it’s kind of unique because it’s always had a good reputation for education, for diversity, and it’s a unique experience to go to a school with so many different kinds of people. And many of them have been very successful in all different fields. And my kids enjoyed that. And I think my kids don’t know any prejudice, and that’s kind of unusual, so. And I’m very proud of the accomplishments of these many Shaker students. Especially, I believe, last year there were two African American journalists who won Pulitzers, both from Shaker, and that’s from one school to have two African American Pulitzer Prize winners.
James Chin [00:28:10] Azanwali.
Kamla Lewis [00:28:15] Thank you very, very much for your time. Mr. Chin, is there anything else you’d like to talk about? Because this is your moment to reflect on things that you think are important for people to know and remember.
James Chin [00:28:30] Well, I think Shaker is a unique community, and it’s not the, you know, it’s not the sexy community where everybody wants to go to anymore. It’s an aging community. You know, a number of the elementary schools have closed. And when I graduated, our senior class had 650 kids. Now, my kids graduated with 400 kids in their class. But I would. The sexy school district now is Solon. Everyone else goes Solon. Maybe Beachwood, too. But that’s what Shaker was like. When I went there, you had a lot of children of famous people, a large Jewish population. But back then, we didn’t have the Jewish holidays off, so only had, like, 40% of the kids there. Now they have it off. And it’s a very small Jewish community in Shaker now. But it’s a unique experience. And I like Shaker Heights, and I like Cleveland Heights. And for me, that’s what Cleveland should be like.
Kamla Lewis [00:29:46] I think that’s what our whole country should be more like.
James Chin [00:29:49] Yeah. Back in ’68, there was a lot of chaos, and we’re seeing that again now. So ’68, you had the. You had the Chicago. The riots there during the Democratic Party Democratic convention in the mid-’60s. You had the Hough riots. I mean, that was something that was scary. Now it’s utter chaos. So I don’t know what to think.
Kamla Lewis [00:30:24] It’s kind of interesting how it’s the high schoolers that seem to be the ones who are stepping forward, as opposed to the college students in the ’60s.
James Chin [00:30:36] My kids are Millennials. The oldest one may just be out of the millennial era, but I’m very impressed with the Millennials, and they seem to be dedicated, and hopefully they’ll do a better job than we did in the ’60s. Two of my four kids were for nonprofits. I’m very proud of that. So they had a great education. They all went to really good and also expensive schools. But I’m very pleased.
Kamla Lewis [00:31:09] It sounds like you did just as good a job as you credit your parents.
James Chin [00:31:14] I don’t know. Also my sister, who’s three years younger than me. She had an amazing class. I think in her class, you had Jane Campbell, Peter Lawson Jones, and Marsha Fudge. I believe Marsha Fudge went to Moreland, and that’s an amazing amount of talent and one graduating class.
Kamla Lewis [00:31:41] Thank you very much, Mr. Chin.
James Chin [00:31:43] Well, it’s my pleasure. Thank you.
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