Abstract
Samuel Tidmore was an aide to Louis Stokes during his early years in Congress. Tidmore is a former NFL linebacker who played for the Cleveland Browns in 1962 and 1963. He later became a business consultant and an owner of fast food franchises. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.
Loading...
Interviewee
Tidmore, Samuel (interviewee)
Interviewer
Hickey, Christine (interviewer)
Project
Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future
Date
8-2-2017
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
40 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Samuel Tidmore IV interview, 02 August 2017" (2017). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 501033.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1189
Transcript
Christine Hickey [00:00:04] I'm just going to give a little bit of background for the camera. This is Christine Hickey, and we are at the television studio at Cuyahoga Community College, and I am interviewing Reverend Sam. Is it Sam or Samuel?
Samuel Tidmore [00:00:16] Samuel.
Christine Hickey [00:00:17] Reverend Samuel Tidmore. And he spells Tidmore. T, I, D, M, O, R, E.
Samuel Tidmore [00:00:28] Back when you said Samuel Tidmore IV.
Christine Hickey [00:00:31] Okay, Reverend.
Samuel Tidmore [00:00:38] History might be easier way, since there's three before me.
Christine Hickey [00:00:42] Okay, good to know. Okay, so we'll just- We'll start with Carl, and the first one I'm going to ask is. So when did you first meet Carl, Carl Stokes?
Samuel Tidmore [00:00:55] Oh, I met Carl when he was a state representative, and we were talking about the possibilities of a mayor in Cleveland. I had seen him before, but we got into a serious conversation about the possibilities back in those days.
Christine Hickey [00:01:12] Okay, and can you talk about?
Christine Hickey [00:01:17] What was Carl's role in the redistricting of Cleveland?
Samuel Tidmore [00:01:21] Well, Carl's role was one of encouragement. Legislatively, he was involved. And it had been a lot of gerrymandering. All of the economy had moved part of the district to Akron, as far as Akron. Yet they were connected somehow, in their wildest imagination to the east side of Cleveland. And, you know, that's about 35 miles from it. But they skipped over Shaker Heights, Cleveland Heights and universities or with Akron, because they did want a contiguous territory where African American might be elected to the Congress of the United States.
Christine Hickey [00:02:00] Okay, I'm going to manipulate a little bit. I just want to go back and do that one more time and just mention that what we were talking about was the redistricting.
Samuel Tidmore [00:02:11] Okay, let me back up and just share. I think we talked about it but my memory sometimes flips on me. Carl wanted to be a congressman. You know, don't you? And that's why the legislation was put in. But by that time, he had became elected officer with the state, and he said, why not my brother Lou? Okay. That's how Lou became involved.
Christine Hickey [00:02:35] I'm gonna have you tell that story.
Samuel Tidmore [00:02:36] Okay.
Christine Hickey [00:02:37] So, you know, I guess it might have been his original goal. What was Carl's original political goal? Including?
Samuel Tidmore [00:02:43] Okay, you want me to answer that now? Carl's original goal was to become a congressperson from the district in Cleveland, Ohio.
Christine Hickey [00:02:54] And what changed his mind about becoming mayor, do you think?
Samuel Tidmore [00:02:58] Well, in the interim, he became mayor. And once he was elected mayor, it made no sense for him to jump from mayor to a congressperson, which was a lesser job in those days, because as a mayor you're your own congressperson or own mayor. I should say of a city and you become as a congressman, only a part time person.
Christine Hickey [00:03:21] And so what was his recommendation at that point?
Samuel Tidmore [00:03:24] His recommendation was to his brother Lou. We looked at a number of different people. George Forbes, a number of different well known names, actually wanted that spot too. Think it was a total of seven people who actually ran in the primary to get that spot.
Christine Hickey [00:03:44] Okay. And I'm going to go back a little bit. When did you first meet Congressman Stokes?
Samuel Tidmore [00:03:54] Oh, I met Congressman Stokes probably a little before Dr. King came to Cleveland. I knew of Carl Stokes, but Jesse Jackson came with Dr. King to Cleveland and there was a major rally and I think that's when we first really got to know each other. We seen each other in passing, of course, we waved and spoke, but really not known him. But when Jesse Jackson came to Cleveland as a person to create a district that was contiguous and talk about the possibilities of a congressperson, that's when I really got to know Carl. Then of course, the Supreme Court at that same time finally came down with the opinion that they could no longer gerrymander and Cleveland became a contiguous area and he ran for mayor, which left the congressional area open for Lou.
Christine Hickey [00:05:04] Okay. I'm going to go back and forth a little bit. So you knew Carl, you were around on MLK and they came into town and they were with Carl looking for his, the vote for mayor and everything. What was it? Were you involved in the campaign at all, for Carl's?
Samuel Tidmore [00:05:31] Yes, I was.
Christine Hickey [00:05:32] And what was your role in the campaign?
Samuel Tidmore [00:05:34] Well, I didn't have an official title. I believe at that time. I just finished playing Cleveland Browns and I got into the fast food business. I was at McDonald's at one time. Then I bought a couple Burger Kings and I had a little extra money in my pocket. So I contributed rather heavily and had known Carl and known Lou, but not well. Lou had represented a friend of mine and we thought they were solid people and went on from there.
Christine Hickey [00:06:14] What were your thoughts when- I don't know if you remember where you were that evening when Carl was announced to have won the mayor election. And what could you tell me about that evening?
Samuel Tidmore [00:06:25] Can you repeat that now?
Christine Hickey [00:06:26] Yeah. Where were you the evening that Carl was elected, that the announcement came out? And what could you tell me about that evening? Do you have a memory?
Samuel Tidmore [00:06:34] That evening we had all gathered together. We- I believe we were at a church, but I can't recall which church it was. But we'd all gather together, wait for the outcome to come because somehow it was a very slow count. Back in those days. And 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock at night is when the actual count would come down. And we all gathered and it was quite a night to understand that we won a major victory, which we labored for, for many, many years.
Christine Hickey [00:07:07] Okay, What was your personal reaction to Carl becoming mayor? Did you have a personal reaction?
Samuel Tidmore [00:07:18] Yeah. Being a Clevelander, I was raised on Quincy, not too far from Carl was raised. And I'd been away to Ohio State. I had played with the Cleveland Browns and all the other things that I imagined for myself. I had sort of realized I became an investment banker at that point in time. And I thought it was a great, great step in the right direction for people, particularly young people, to understand that there was more to life than being a ball player, which was my main goal in life. And I thought it was a great step in the right direction for people of Cleveland as well as people of color.
Christine Hickey [00:07:55] Okay. Can we do that one more time? I like what you had to say. If we could just mention, you know, that having Carl elected as mayor was the stuff that we were talking about?
Samuel Tidmore [00:08:09] That's not gonna be the same.
Christine Hickey [00:08:10] I know it won't be the same, but that's okay. That gives me more to work with.
Samuel Tidmore [00:08:13] All right, repeat the question.
Christine Hickey [00:08:16] What was your personal reaction when Carl became mayor?
Samuel Tidmore [00:08:21] My personal reaction that it gave us new hope, it gave us a new vision, it gave us a new look at what we could be in life. I was very fortunate. I went to Ohio State, I became a Cleveland Brown, and I could taste, of course, the opportunities that were around downtown. But of course, you didn't see people of color down there. And for Carl to get elected the mayor of the whole city was great in every way I can think of. And it was just a great feeling. And it gave others new hope as far as holding offices and new jobs and whatever.
Christine Hickey [00:09:06] Excellent. I'm going to switch a little bit more to Carl or to Lou. Okay, so. So you met Lou while Carl was running for mayor, and then did you work with him at all? Did you work with Lou prior to becoming his?Now, you became his chief of staff, is that correct?
Samuel Tidmore [00:09:32] Yes.
Christine Hickey [00:09:32] So did you work with him, with Lou, at all, prior to becoming chief of staff? How did your relationship develop?
Samuel Tidmore [00:09:37] Well, my. My relationship developed when he decided, or we talked him into, I should say, into running. He had a great name. He was a brilliant lawyer, having attended Case Western Reserve Law School after service in the army of the United States. And we thought he would be a great, great guy. Arnold Pinkney and I got together and Arnold was actually the manager and I was the guy we call the street manager. I went every place with Lou and wrote speeches and, and sort of gave him the emphasis of where he should go. Lou was a brilliant guy in the law book, but street wise, maybe he needed a little more street at that point in time, but he gained that very, very quickly.
Christine Hickey [00:10:29] Okay, so just for information, so what was your role, and how did you become secretary? How did you become Lou's chief of staff? How did that all develop?
Samuel Tidmore [00:10:43] Well, we had to decide who would help Lou. Congresspeople need strong people around them. They spend a lot of time in meetings and on the floor of the house and somebody has to run the shop. You have actually hundreds of people call every day with a federal problem, whether it's a soldier, whether it's Social Security or whatever it might be, but those people must be serviced. And I had a staff, I think about eight people then. And we would service those people. We'd get letters, we'd get phone calls. One veteran I can recall who was in need of health care, he went to the VA and they told him to go home. They were overcrowded. He called me, he and his wife said, my husband's going to die. And I couldn't believe how bizarre that could be. And I asked him what was the problem. He said they couldn't take him now and he had been given a certain amount of time to live. I called the VA immediately and he was admitted. So things like that give you a great, great feeling of being of service to someone on the real line of life, as they say.
Christine Hickey [00:11:56] Okay. So did Lou ask you? Could you tell me the story that you, you know, do you have a story where it was decided that you would become his chief of staff, his righthand man, and help him through that process? Was that when the campaign was going on? Was that decision made or was that something after you guys won?
Samuel Tidmore [00:12:17] Well, I don't know if it was before or after, but we quickly understood that Lou was a brilliant lawyer, but he needed someone to run things for him. He was a member of a very, very small law firm, two or three people on 55th Street. And he needed someone that would be his out front man was out front person, I should say. And Arnold Pinkney ran the local office here. And I went to Washington. Lou moved my family to Silver Springs, which is right outside Washington. And I spent two years there with him. Just sort of feeling the blows and doing the blocking and tackling, as we like to say.
Christine Hickey [00:13:01] Okay, you just transferred all that knowledge you'd gained from sports over to what you needed to do.
Samuel Tidmore [00:13:08] Yeah, I was in business, too, at that point. I owned some Burger Kings. I bought some McDonald's at one time, and I was financially available to do it. So I said, why not? This is a good cause that I can feel good about.
Christine Hickey [00:13:31] What did it mean to you to go to Congress with Congressman Stokes? What did it mean to you to do that?
Samuel Tidmore [00:13:37] Well, it was a new type of education. We all think we know what's going on in Washington, but you really don't know. It gave you a real grasp of what happens in Washington and how bills get passed. To meet Adam Clayton Powell, who was one of the first congressional African Americans, and he had been put out of Congress for some what I call silly matter today, but he was being readmitted, and there was only six black congresspeople in the whole country. To meet these people who enrolled the greatness in their own communities, and to sit with them and talk about the issues of African Americans in the entire country, I thought was quite thrilling. At the same time, a serious, serious matter that we need to undertake because we just were not being treated fairly. I was one of the fortunate ones, having played for Ohio State and the Browns and having some opportunities where African Americans never got. I was chosen to be the first black stockbroker in the country. I mean, that was crazy. And I had to go to New York and spend six months on the New York Stock Exchange as a messenger almost before you could take the license. It was like foreign territory. And that's what wealth is in this country. We are a capitalistic country. We're not a democracy as much as a capitalism. So I understood and learned that, and it became beneficiary. My children all today, they're in business for themselves. They don't work for anybody.
Christine Hickey [00:15:21] Okay, what were some- When you and Congressman Louis went to Congress, what were some challenges that you faced? So, if you could just- If you could start at, you know, some challenges we faced, you know, Lou and I, or Congressman Lou and I faced when we went to Congress was, so I have the essence of the question and that answer.
Samuel Tidmore [00:15:44] Okay, well, legislation. That's why you're there, to pass positive legislation that helps your district. And having only six African Americans who were congressperson, you can understand, it was pretty difficult to get anything done. And so you had to go around and you had a hobnob with people and make sure that you would comfort them, they would come for you. And then you came to what we call the Compromise. We will support your bill on X, if you give us this. And most bills are not of one nature. It's generally six or seven different issues that are put together and you get the vote. Your stuff goes through, his stuff goes through. And so we began to understand how it really works and how Wall Street and how the other powerful people in the nation really get things done. And you meet a lot of people you never dreamed you would meet, who they're doing the same thing you're doing.
Christine Hickey [00:16:40] And you met these individuals and we spoke on the phone previously and you spoke about how you would, as you just mentioned, get together and share the bill. You give me this, I'll give you that, and stuff like that. What did you do? How did you accomplish some things for the urban communities?
Samuel Tidmore [00:17:07] Well, you had to go around and talk to people about what their needs were. It might be a farm community that needs fertilizer or needs some other aspect of farming. And you would partner with them in a bill that would have farming and urban. Maybe it was the auto industry, maybe it was the fast food industry. Whatever you needed, you could partner. I was a fast food operator. We knew that they needed certain legislation, particularly regarding wages and food stuff and those kinds of things. So we knew that, for instance, that we were X percentage of their marketplace. So we go talk to them about cooperating with us and we cooperate with them and that's how you get legislation done. Everything is a compromise in Washington D.C. Nothing goes in and comes out the same way.
Christine Hickey [00:18:12] I think more people know that nowadays than they necessarily did before. Similar to what you were talking about with the franchise industry and the fast food industry. Is there anything that you recall that you guys worked on at the time that was beneficial to the Cleveland community and or the African American community, community across the nation? Was there anything in particular?
Samuel Tidmore [00:18:36] Regarding fast foods?
Christine Hickey [00:18:38] Not regarding fast food, just any bills or anything in particular that you recall that were particularly near and dear to your heart or Lou's heart?
Samuel Tidmore [00:18:47] Well, I think voter participation and desegregation, redistricting, gerrymandering was, was the word of the day in Washington. And congresspeople believe in protecting their territory. And it means like we had in Cleveland, sending part of the district to Akron and jumping over the suburban communities, they did that. So it was an all out type of thing to keep your district as tight as it was. And it took Supreme Court order to get the 21st congressional district back. In those days, every congressperson wanted a small percentage of black people and maybe as high as 20%, but they didn't want any more because it would get out of control. So that was. I found a pattern throughout the nation. I don't know who created it, but it was very effective in keeping most congresspersons out of African Americans, I should say out of the Congress. Adam Clayton Powell gave us some very, very powerful lessons how he did it in New York, and that was very, very valuable. We had other people who came here from all over the nation. Jesse Jackson came here from Chicago, Illinois to help us put our act together, as they say.
Christine Hickey [00:20:18] Okay, and once you were in Congress, what type of- I mean, other than being new to Congress, what other challenges did you and Louis Stokes come across?
Samuel Tidmore [00:20:31] Oh, we came across many, many things. But you had to weigh it very, very careful. It was like, you support my bill, I support your bill. That's the way it basically works. Or if they have an urban piece they wanted to pass, we had to see what type of benefit would come to Cleveland as a result of that. And so that had to be wrote into the bill. Cleveland would get 10%, 15%. Cleveland will get new streets. Cleveland will get x number of A, B or C. That's how you pretty much had to craft the bill. But it's always something. They would present opportunity, or you would have to craft something in there that would benefit your district. Otherwise, basically a no go.
Christine Hickey [00:21:17] And I believe on the phone we spoke and you mentioned that there was constant communication between yourself and Louis Stokes in Washington and Carl here back in Cleveland. Can you tell me a little bit about that situation?
Samuel Tidmore [00:21:34] Well, an urban city, or to be a mayor of an urban city as big as Cleveland, Carl had particular needs. And there was certain legislation that was punitive to big cities because, remember, this is a Congress made of a small-town kind of people and very few big-city people. So big-city needs are a little bit different. So if you need a sewer system or a highway through Cleveland, it's a little different than, you know, Medina, Ohio. So we had to sit and talk to people about what the real needs- What are your top five needs, what are your top 10 needs? What kind of timetable were we operating with? You know, what's the total cost? What's the local money versus the national money? All those things had to be packaged so it could be properly presented to the congressional area.
Christine Hickey [00:22:26] And so you took. And once you received that information from Carl's area and Cleveland as a whole, what did you do with that information?
Samuel Tidmore [00:22:35] Well, we first looked around and see who had like needs in the Congress. Maybe there's New York, Philadelphia, maybe there's Chicago, you know, and find out if they have similar needs. And then you partner with those people to put forth legislation that could be meaningful to all the communities.
Christine Hickey [00:22:54] Excellent. What type of congressman was Congressman Stokes?
Samuel Tidmore [00:23:09] Lou was probably one of the most brilliant minds I met. Most people would read what we call the synopsis of their bill, or they would get an idea that it might. But Lew would read the entire bill and many times you're talking about 60, 70 pages or something. And remember he was a constitutional lawyer, caseworks reserve, and very bright guy, very- They used to call it eggheads, whatever they refer to as. I was not that type of guy. I wanted the summary, I wanted to find out which group were going. But Lou would read the whole thing and he would point up things to us that might be good, might be bad. And he was very, very thorough in that regard. And you had to respect him for that.
Christine Hickey [00:23:58] Right. I was- Hold on a second. I don't want- Congressman, sorry. Okay. Matt Zone, councilman. Sorry. In his book he was mentioning that he was looking at, at some point in his career, a health bill and how he would go to. In Congress. And most of the individuals in the room didn't know a lot about what was going on in the health bill and he would bring up issues. Could you tell me, was there. It's similar to what you just said, but is there a story or anything where he. Anything that was particularly, he was passionate about at the time that you guys worked together that he was concerned that people needed to pay attention to?
Samuel Tidmore [00:24:43] I think housing was one of the big deals that he was particularly passionate about. Having lived in public housing here in Cleveland was a pretty trying situation, I should say. And understanding the health care. We worked with, Cleveland Clinic, we worked with, uh, and all those people very, very closely. I think it led to, uh, being more progressive at that point in time. Uh, they hired a black CEO, Dr. Edgar Jackson, as a result of that. I think, um, a lot of good stuff came as a result of working with the hospitals and channeling money to them and, and make them understand they had to have a partnership rather than just a one way track. I can think of a lot of things, but nothing that I think would be exciting to a television audience maybe.
Christine Hickey [00:25:40] Okay. In general, how do you feel- What did the Stokes brothers do for Cleveland and the nation? What do you think that stands out in your mind? What did they do for collusion in the nation?
Samuel Tidmore [00:26:03] Well, I think they woke the nation up. They woke African Americans up, and I think they even woke my grandson up. Because had it not been for the Stokes brothers in Cleveland, we probably would have taken a longer time to get to certain goals and certain thoughts. I particularly was woken up as to what legislation and the governing of this city, county and the national government was like, how it was impactful. It gave young folks new goals, new ideas, new thoughts. It was a national peace that I think was very, very needed. And it gave us new goals, new thoughts all over the city, I think.
Christine Hickey [00:26:58] I know you mentioned your grandson. So do you believe that the Stokes brothers are still inspiring this generation, or what can we do to help keep the inspiration going?
Samuel Tidmore [00:27:12] Well, I think every parent should read and read with their child to let them understand what this community was and what it has become as a result of the Stokes brothers and the other legislative and political things going on. My grandson is now nine years old, Aiden. And Aiden is very astute. He goes to beach with schools, and he's a bright kid. He's learning things that I learned when I was a senior in high school. And he's nine years old, and his aspirations are different, but he needs information, he needs research, he needs history to ensure and to undergird him and his ambitions for whatever he might do in life. So I think all parents should teach their children to read the history so they can have a platform to build upon. Most kids have thoughts and ideas and dreams. No platform. And to learn the story of a Stokes or even the ball player, how they got there is very important. And one of my favorite things I say to the grandson is, what is your game plan? And he knows what that means. Whether it's academic or whether it's real ball. He knows what the game plan is.
Christine Hickey [00:28:39] It's a similar- I was going to ask about- Yeah. What do you think- Just looking, just talking about Louis Stokes, Congressman Stokes, what do you think his legacy was? Or is.
Samuel Tidmore [00:29:04] I would say that Louis was known as a academic. He was brilliant, he was persuasive. He knew how to go across the aisle, and he was respected as a congressperson. And I think that the last aspect of respect is the biggest one, because if they don't respect you, you don't get anything. But Lou was absolutely brilliant when it came to the law and research. He taught me how to do research. I wanted to read the Cliff Notes, but he read the whole thing. So I think that was something that he was a serious, serious academic. I think that's the thing. I remember because he read it all. That was not my style at that point in time.
Christine Hickey [00:30:11] How did Louis, or did he inspire you in any way through working with him or before you started working with him. But did Louis inspire you in any way?
Samuel Tidmore [00:30:24] Well, it gave me a new perspective of how the country ran. As I said, I was a jock and I was a businessman and I really didn't know a lot about how the Congress, how the Senate and how the presidency actually ran per se. And it gave me opportunity to understand how the nations ran and what it takes to run a nation. And I'm forever grateful for that opportunity. It's just a mind opening and eye popper, as they say, of what happens in Washington and how do you get things done and how we can be a greater nation, just the average nation.
Christine Hickey [00:31:07] Do you have any stories or anything interesting that you could tell from your time together in Congress? Something that he, I mean, you mentioned that he made sure he read everything. Was there anything else that people would find interesting that made him a different type of congressman?
Samuel Tidmore [00:31:28] Well, I think he was the most sincere, one of the more sincere persons I've met in life. Very, very serious. I mean, some people, bookworms as they call them, this guy read all the time, you know, and I wanted to read the summary, he wanted to read the whole story. And he was very academic in all he did. And it's very, very great to understand the whole story. And I think I learned from that, how to read the whole story and get the whole feel of what's going on. And he was wonderful with people, kind, humble, not big headed. He did a great job of being a teacher as well as a kind and warm person.
Christine Hickey [00:32:20] I'm going to switch again to Carl. What would you say Carl's legacy is to Cleveland and the nation?
Samuel Tidmore [00:32:28] I'd probably say a groundbreaker, a guy who went through doors never been opened before. Brilliant guy also, but a guy who was street wise and knew how to make butter out of milk, as they say. And he understood how and what it took to become a leader and to lead and he knew how to integrate for the goodness of the entire community. Carl worked in all the communities and was loved more than people think he was.
Christine Hickey [00:33:04] I was going to say Carl had some challenges while he was mayor, obviously, because he was in a new frontier in a way. But how would you describe Carl as mayor to Cleveland? What was his time like?
Samuel Tidmore [00:33:23] Well, Carl was a great mayor with great ideas, but you had a very, very negative Congress. I won't say anything else what they were, but they were very negative. And sometimes whether it was good for the city or not, it was a no vote and it was very, very, very testy and very, very depressing at times. It's a brilliant idea for the city. It's going to help us all. But because Carl put it forth, it was a no vote. I won't mention the congresspeople or I should say councilmen who worked diligently against Carl. But it was a sad time in our history where people just vote no based on skin color and all those silly, silly reasons. But Carl was a fighter, and everyone had to appreciate it. It was hard to not like Carl because he always had a smile on his face. And when he went into a black community or white community, he was received extremely well. But the politicians and the council people at that time, that was another story.
Christine Hickey [00:34:35] Is there anything else that you would like to discuss either about Lou or Carl at that time?
Samuel Tidmore [00:34:45] Other than I thank God for sending them this way, personally, I gained a lot. I think the city of Cleveland gained a lot. I think that our children are still benefiting from it. I think our present mayor, the door is open for him. And I think my congressional seat, Marsha Fudge, has benefited. I think there's been a lot of beneficiaries of the Stokes brothers, and I think history will record him as a groundbreaker and giving us the boost that we needed at that point in time.
Christine Hickey [00:35:31] Okay. I'm trying to think if there was anything else. I'm going to ask a general of Cleveland question, you know, now we're going backwards to the-
Samuel Tidmore [00:35:44] You're gonna do a lot of editing, huh? [laughs] Christine Hickey [00:35:46] I know I am. 1967, 1965 area time. What was it like? What was it like in Cleveland?
Samuel Tidmore [00:36:58] Cleveland was just starting to open up just a tiny bit. You got to remember the legislation that was being passed to give Blacks the right to vote and desegregation. I was fortunate when I played with the Browns to get a nice bonus that I could buy a house in Shaker Heights. And when I moved into a house over on Daleford there, every house became for sale. I would come home from football practice with the Browns, and I'd have a yard full of white kids in my front yard waiting for me because I played football. But the parents wouldn't speak to me. So it was a very, very strange time where children were leading us to new ground. And it was- My children were young. I never forget, one of my daughters was called a Black child by a white child. And the white child meant it for as a derogatory kind of. And she says, why would he say that? I know I'm Black. So what? You know, so it was a very interesting time. The integration of Cleveland, and the whole notion of who you are. And it opened a lot of doors to me. I was sought out to become the first Black stockbroker on the New York Stock Exchange, and that was because of the Stokes movement and some of my background as a ball player. But I was sent to New York. I spent six weeks up there on the New York Stock Exchange and learned more than I ever dreamed was happening in the country. I really understood from that point what capitalism was, and that's what runs this country.
Christine Hickey [00:37:59] And the order of events. When did that opportunity open up for you? After you were in congress with the Stokes, or was that prior to that, in the stockbroker becoming the stockbroker?
Samuel Tidmore [00:38:14] I was a stockbroker before I went to Washington. That happened right after I got to playing ball. They called the Urban League and said they were looking for African American stockbrokers. And somehow my name got put on the list. And then having been with the Browns, that sort of enhanced it, because in that business, you wanted to be known and have some type of reputation. And then it took off from there and worked very, very well for me, and I was very, very thankful for that opportunity. And that was, I think, the proper order, I think, of what happened back in those days.
Christine Hickey [00:39:11] Was there anything else you want to say? I think I'm good.
Samuel Tidmore [00:39:14] I think that'll do it. I was trying to think more about Stokes, but I can't.
Christine Hickey [00:39:19] Yeah, I think. I think you got it.
Unknown speaker [00:39:21] I was curious.
Christine Hickey [00:39:23] Oh, sure.
Unknown speaker [00:39:24] Representative Stokes was really your boss. What kind of boss was he? Or did he treat you differently than as an employer?
Christine Hickey [00:39:32] Just talk to me when you're-
Samuel Tidmore [00:39:34] Well, he was a boss, but in those days, we really had, what I call team ball. We all had certain strengths, and I was well known in the community also, and I had a certain amount of constituents that I brought with me. I also contributed to him, which worked well for me. So we had a great relationship, and Arnold Pinckney had a great relationship with him. And anybody who gave money, I think, stood up there as someone who was, okay.
Christine Hickey [00:40:18] Anything else? [crosstalk] Cool. Okay. We're good.
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License.
