Abstract
Peggy Zone Fisher is a native Clevelander. She is the President and Chief Executive Officer of the Diversity Center NEO. Zone-Fisher’s parents both served as Cleveland City Council members in the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood on Cleveland’s west side. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.
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Interviewee
Fisher, Peggy Zone (interviewee)
Project
Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future
Date
2017
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
40 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Peggy Zone Fisher interview, 2017" (2017). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 501029.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1193
Transcript
Unknown speaker [00:00:05] So what is- Tell me about your family’s background in politics.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:06:26] My family’s background in politics goes back before I was born, and my parents were both Cleveland City Council people. My dad served in city council from 1960 to 1974, and he was the chair of the Finance Committee. So I kind of grew up with just having community service and social justice, just part of who I am and part of our family who we are. Never thinking that it was unusual. I was very, very fortunate to grow up how did. And then when my father passed away in 1974, I was a young girl, and I remember George Forbes and Arnold Pinckney coming to our home. And my mother was always involved in the community with my father. They were really partners in everything. And they came to the house, and George said, Mary, want you- I’d like for you to finish Mike’s term. My father’s Mike Zone. And Mary Zone, I’d like you to finish Mike’s term in council. So she had some thinking to do. She had five young children at home, and that was big decision. And we all came together as family and helped her with making that decision. And she went on to serve in city council from 1974, and then she ran on her own and stayed in Council until 1981 and did some amazing things. There is story about how my father passed away. I mean, he passed away in 1974, and it was really sudden. He had massive heart attack in the middle of the night. And back then, Ralph Perk was the mayor, and he was closing down fire stations around the city. So he closed down two fire departments in my dad’s ward, which was Ward at the time. So back then, if you had an emergency, you picked up the phone and you called the fire department. Well, my father had this heart attack in the middle of the night. One of my little brothers called the fire department. It took them 50 minutes to get to my father. And by the time they got there, he had passed away. And we always said, well, just to comfort ourselves, he probably would have died anyway. But 50 minutes is long time. So when my mother went into council, her very first piece of legislation was to bring EMS to Cleveland. We did not have EMS at all. And so all of city council supported the legislation. And they did it to honor my father, of course, and her family. And remember. suppose we could tell this story because it’s public. remember going to the unveiling of the first EMS truck, and there was big ceremony, and they took the cloth, the drape off of the truck, and it said, Cleveland Emergency Medical Services, Mayor Ralph J. Perk. Ralph J. Perk, Mayor of Cleveland. And if anybody knew Mary Zone, my mother, she was very spunky, and she ordered Ralph, the mayor’s name, to be painted off of every EMS truck. She told him, you were against this, and. And you do not deserve to have your name on these trucks. So they all came. They came down. There was not truck with the mayor’s name on it. And she got along with the mayor, but my mother also spoke her mind. She was very close with George Forbes and with the Stokes family. remember in the election of 1967, so was really young girl. And remember my dad coming home from city council, and he gathered all of us together, and he said, there’s somebody that we are going to work for. This is person who is right for the city of Cleveland, and we are going to get behind him. Now, everybody wanted the Zone family support, because if you think about it, you could. You know, there’s nine siblings, and you could. You could drop us off on street and we could lit. Drop ward, like in five minutes. You know, everybody goes and takes street. So remember growing up wearing campaign buttons for people. had no idea who they were, but our parents said, you know, these are the right people to support. So the Carl Stokes came to our home with his family, and we had dinner with them. Now, grew up on the west side, grew up at West 65th and Detroit. And that was my parents’ ward, and my brother Matt Zone serves as the council person in that ward today. Very proud of him and his work. And back then, it was very ethnic neighborhood. Lot of Italians, Romanian, Irish. There were no African Americans. So never had an opportunity to play with any African American children. didn’t go to school with any African American children. Children. And actually the very first when went to high school, Sharon Nance, who is Fred Nance’s sister, one of his young sisters, was in my class in high school in freshman year, and she was the very first African American girl in our school. So that was how long it took to integrate. So when the Stokes family came for dinner, they were phenomenal. Carl Stokes was very charismatic. He was so outgoing, and we had great time, and it just felt so normal. It wasn’t anything that was unusual. Our parents taught us growing up that we should be open and accepting of all races, religions, ethnicities. So it just felt right. So they leave, and my dad, my parents said, this is. We’re going to work for him. So we start campaigning and doing lit drops and taking literature around and wearing their buttons.
Unknown speaker [00:06:56] One second. Now, were you guys hearing something that you wanted to stop somewhere along the way? It’s very- [brief discussion of audio] Okay, I’m gonna pick you up with, So we went around the neighborhood. Just want- I hear them wondering about something. Don’t want you to go too far. Okay.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:06:58] Okay. Maybe shouldn’t be that. Was shuffling bit.
Unknown speaker [00:07:03] Don’t.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:07:04] But okay, I won’t. Okay. I’m Italian, so you see. I’m holding my hands, you know, because otherwise I’d be like, oh, it’s okay. Oh, my God. Okay.
Unknown speaker [00:07:14] It’s like I’m holding my pickups. So immediately, like, so the ready.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:10:22] So after Carl Stokes and his family left, his wife and children, our parents gathered us all and said, we’re going to help them. We’re going to work for him. This is the right time. He needs to be our mayor. So we started lit dropping. We started going around the neighborhood. And it was the very first time in my life as young person that experienced what it was to be discriminated against. Families in the neighborhood and the elementary schools that we went to, all of our friends were told, don’t play with the Zone kids. You cannot play with them anymore. You know, back then, it was big deal to aluminum side your house. That was the rage, you know, back then. And we didn’t have lot of money. We actually grew up poor. We never knew it, but we were. And my parents saved for years. They saved their money to aluminum side the house. So they happened to do it that year. And it was white aluminum siding, and the house looked beautiful. And we came home one day from campaigning, from helping out, dropping off literature. And we came home, and on the side of the house in black paint was the word, which was spelled out N. Lover, stop. Beware. You will be next. It was scary. It was really, really scary time for us. And we were confused as young kids would be. We didn’t know what. We were afraid. And can hear my father’s voice today. can hear him saying. He gathered us together in the living room and he said, look, the people that are doing this to us, they are the cowards. They’re not saying. They’re not coming forward, but they’re the cowards. We’re doing the right thing. You hold your head up high. And we’re going to keep doing this because Carl Stokes is who should be the mayor of Cleveland. Of course, we were terrified, but we love our parents and our parents always gave us the right advice, so we continued on. It was no surprise that year that every Eastside council person worked and supported Carl Stokes for mayor. Every Westside councilperson worked and supported Seth Taft for mayor, except for one, Mike Zone. He was the only one. And he did that throughout his entire life. And my mother continued and carried on that tradition of social justice and doing the right thing at the right time. And when Arnold Pinckney ran for mayor, Mary Zone was the only Westside council person to work and endorse Arnold Pinckney for mayor. Very interesting. mean, it says, thank the powers to be that was born to family, into family. Mary and Mike Zone, that didn’t lecture us, but taught us by their actions. And feel very fortunate.
Unknown speaker [00:10:44] That was awesome. You’re right. You almost got all the questions right there.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:10:48] Let me go back just little bit. Okay. Was that our? Okay.
Unknown speaker [00:10:50] That was no. Beautiful story. You mentioned that your dad had sat you down and explained why Carl was the man. Tell me about that conversation? What you recall why he said that?
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:13:46] Carl Stokes, my father gathered us all together and really, really felt very strongly about why Carl Stokes was the right person to be the mayor of the city of Cleveland. Carl had run in 1965 and lost that election. But during that time, there was sense of things happening in the city and there was some unrest and there were opportunities where African American community really standing up and wanting to have voice. And my father knew that. He recognized that, and he wasn’t afraid of that. And thank goodness that Carl was the mayor and he was elected because there was nobody else who could have settled the city during the Huff riots. Walking through the streets, he was. And often think about, you know, my parents saying he is the right person for the right for this time in our lives. And he was. And so, you know, my dad had sixth sense about justice. And he was the council person on the west side, as said, very ethnic community. There was very large Puerto Rican community in his ward. And my father served as the interpreter for the Spanish community. He helped them. He was their liaison. He helped them through issues. And he insisted that. And really insisted with the Puerto Rican community and the Hispanic community. It is important for you to have your own voice. So my dad was one of the founding fathers of the Spanish American committee. And he was the only person not Spanish serving on that committee. But he felt that people need their own voice. People need to take ownership and not be afraid. Not be afraid to speak out and speak up. And that’s why really do think, just seeing how he was as public servant, it always made me feel like he always gave the right advice, and he was always working and helping for the underdog. And in many ways, in lots of ways, and he just did the right thing. So Carl Stokes was the right person at the right time.
Unknown speaker [00:13:58] So you had the- You know, obviously it was- You all were rooting for Carl? You were working on the campaign?
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:14:04] Exactly.
Unknown speaker [00:14:04] Do you have any memories of election night?
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:16:21] Well, many have- You know, have many memories of lots of election nights. And as young girl, election nights were always very exciting for me because could experience watching my parents and being with them and watching their excitement and knowing that whatever the outcome was, if it was positive outcome, could see. could feel it, even not quite understanding what all the issues were and happening because was so young, but. But just knowing, don’t know, there was an air about it. And the night that Carl won, just lived through it, through my parents. saw their excitement. saw, you know, there were many meetings in our home, campaign meetings on the west side. There weren’t lot of locations on the west side to hold campaign meetings. So they became, you know, people would come into our house and the meetings would happen around our dining room table, and we had people in from all walks of life coming in and meeting there. And the fact that I’m, you know, we’re Italian and people like to come to our house. My mother would put out spread of food and, you know, you have to. If you’re going to have meeting of any sort, you better have some food at that table, too. So they fed people, they strategized. And think just learned so much just. Just sitting there. It was just, was absorbing so much of what was going on, similar to when was really little girl, when President Kennedy won his election. And watched my parents live through that and was so excited about that election night because knew that their excitement meant it was good thing. And it was. And it just was wonderful time.
Unknown speaker [00:16:25] During Carl’s tenure of both terms as mayor, I mean, there were some hard times for the city, hard times for the country. Tell me about your recollections, your experience during the time while he was mayor. You folks had supported and things got little rough, little bit. So tell me about that.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:16:44] I don’t remember lot of the issues, given my age at the time, but do remember there was lot of controversy around Cleveland now program. And remember my parents and my dad was the chair of the. Somebody’s phone, right?
Unknown speaker [00:17:06] That’s the courtesy line.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:17:08] What is? What is that?
Unknown speaker [00:17:09] It’s my old phone they’re calling. Courtesy line.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:17:12] What’s a courtesy?
Unknown speaker [00:17:14] Control room phone.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:17:15] Oh, that never happens. That’s okay. That’s all right.
Unknown speaker [00:17:36] Okay, we good, guys?
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:17:36] And so rolling.
Unknown speaker [00:17:39] So you were young during the time when Carl was mayor. But tell me about if there’s any experiences or recollections you have during the time?
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:17:48] You know, given the fact that was pretty young during Carl’s mayoral terms, I didn’t quite understand lot of the issues that were happening. But I do recall that there was controversy around a program, believe it was called Cleveland: NOW. And my father was the chair of the finance committee for the city, city council. So always council and the mayor sometimes don’t see eye to eye. And I know, I remember my father struggling during those times because, you know, on one hand, you know that the person there is doing the right thing. On the other hand, you know, you have people that are investigating or questioning others’ motives. And so there’s always- There’s always a struggle. And think that my dad held firm to his belief. He never wandered away from not supporting Carl through hard times and through good times. And think every person in public life takes real- It’s a big sacrifice. And people don’t really realize the sacrifice because it’s not just a sacrifice for an individual, it’s the whole family. There’s an entire family invested in it. And you know, for people that I’ve met over the years who said, think I’m going to run for office, but my spouse doesn’t want me to, but I’m going to do it anyway. It’s not going to work. So you do. I mean, my parents had the support of each other and the support of their family, and we saw everything, good times and bad times, we saw it through together. And so think Carl had that same with his brother, with Congressman Stokes, and he had very strong support network.
Unknown speaker [00:19:57] What about some personal recollections? You talked about the dinner when Carl and the family came as young person. What are your personal recollections of Carl as a person?
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:23:46] Well, you know, recalling, as recall, Carl Stokes as a person during those times, and again, you know, I was a young girl, just- What I was drawn to was his, just his charismatic way, his comfortableness with people. It didn’t matter who you were. If you were Black, if you were white, if you were Italian, if you were- It didn’t matter. He was very comfortable being with people and around people, and people gravitated to him. And had the pleasure growing up continuing friendship with him and building friendship on different kind of level. You know, where he knew me as a young girl, he always praised me on my accomplishments as I was growing. He knew me when I was in college and when I came back to Cleveland, he would compliment me on the path that was taking. So as a young person, it could have been very easy for him as mayor to say, oh, isn’t she cute? And then forget who I am as I grow up. He always remembered every single person and he really was in tune to who they were. I married years later, married Lee Fisher as my husband. And Lee ran for state representative in 1980. That was the first office he ran for. He was state representative, he was state senator, he was Ohio’s attorney general, he was lieutenant governor. Every time he ran for office, the years that Carl was alive, Carl supported Lee. He was right there with him, helping him. He met Lee. It was almost like the Zone family gave Lee the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. You know, I mean, that was, you know Lee and Lee’s a phenomenal person and he’s a good guy on his own. He didn’t really need us to do that, but it opened the door and it had a- There was already trust there. If Miriam, Mike Zone’s son-in-law, is Lee Fisher, there’s trust there and there’s a relationship. So both Carl and Congressman Stokes supported Lee in all of his- Every time he ran for office and were helpful and in way where advice, their advice was really important and helpful. And, you know, my father, as said earlier, died in 1974. I met my husband afterwards and years later that we married. And so he never knew my dad. But there were people along the way throughout Lee’s career that knew my father and would say things like Carl and Congressman Stokes. I know Mike Zone. Mike Zone helped me with whatever it was. I’m going to work, I’m going to help you. Because people felt that strongly that that was the right thing to do. So again, said to Lee, you know, my dad isn’t even here and he’s involved in your campaigns. I mean. I mean, it’s really. It’s wonderful feeling. believe in karma. You know, if you do the right thing and you’re kind with people and you are, and you’re just that it’s going to come back. It may not come back right away, but it will come back. I’m big believer in that.
Unknown speaker [00:24:08] I agree. Let’s talk about- You knew Louis. Tell me about Howard Smith Stokes.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:27:22] Well, got to really know Congressman Stokes when my husband started running for office. That’s when built friendship and relationship with him. And he would always say he was just so- He was wonderful. His daughters went to school with my husband. They went through high school together, in elementary school. And so he knew Lee more than Carl knew Lee. And so was able to build relationship with Congressman Stokes through my husband’s relationship. And he just was- He just was such a smart, kind man. Just really, really kind and very helpful. And think the way that they grew up, they were always willing to put hand out and lift you, and that’s good quality. They took lot of people along with them. They didn’t forget about where they grew up or who they were. And think they honored their mother throughout their life because of that. I certainly never knew her. She must have been an amazing woman. Just an amazing, strong woman to come from how they grew up and to be so accomplished. I remember one year was in China, and was on this mission, state mission in China, and was in friendship store, and hear this incredible voice coming from around picture, and you’re in China, you’re in Beijing. That’s far from Cleveland. And I walked around this pillar, and there was Congressman Stokes standing there. He was buying some souvenirs, and he was- He just ran over. He embraced me, and he was like, what are you doing here? And, you know, if you knew him, you knew that voice, you knew that laugh. It was so distinct. He just was- He made you feel good when you were around him. And he was always available for advice. I had lot of respect for him. And he always told me, we ran one year for- Obviously, lived in Congressman Stokes’ district in the east side, and there was one election, it was for presidential election for Bill Clinton, his first election. And so when you run as delegate, you can run individually or you can run as slate. So Congressman Stokes put together a slate, and he asked me if would run, if would run on his slate. Of course I would. I was so honored to do that well, and we had this little fun thing going. I was the highest vote getter, so I had more votes on the slate than Congressman Stokes. And he loved that. So every time we were together, he’d say, you’re the one who should run for office, not your husband. It should be you. You know, kiddingly. But he just was so kind and generous.
Unknown speaker [00:27:35] We’ve talked to many people during this last year, and we asked about the legacy, the legacy of Congress, Carl, the legacy of Lou. And you’ve got personal connection there. So tell me about your connection and the legacy of Carl and Lou Stokes?
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:29:35] Well, you know, when I think of the legacy of both Carl Stokes and Lou Stokes, I’m very mindful of the impact that both of them had on my life and my family’s life growing up. And so grateful for the opportunity for me and my family. And of course, through my parents. just was so grateful to know them early on in growing up, certainly Carl Stokes growing up, and just knowing that they- There are good people in every walk of life. And just- I think of their legacy. I think of all the people that they must have impacted in that way. I realize my family is one story, just one story, but story that really changed me personally. As I said as a young girl and feeling discouraged, discrimination and fear for the first time that I never experienced, I always felt safe. I felt safe walking to school. I felt safe saying, you know, just being with friends and my whole life changed very quickly where realized I’m feeling this discrimination against me. My friends, my African American friends have felt that way their whole lives growing up as little children. And so experiences like that are really, really good. And my parents were right. We’re doing the right thing. Don’t run away. Hold your head up high, because it crystallize something in you that you realize, right? These people that are being discriminatory, these people that are being mean and hateful, they’re the cowards. They are the cowards.
Unknown speaker [00:29:56] Now, you, at this point in your life, you are running nonprofit. And we were talking little bit earlier, but tell me little bit about what you’re doing now and how you feel that might be bit of legacy and opportunity of what Carl?
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:30:13] Okay, I want to say something else before that. Can I do that?
Unknown speaker [00:30:16] Sure.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:32:24] Oh, okay. So thinking of more of, you know, as I started thinking of both of their legacies and again, the involvement of my family. My husband, Lee Fisher, is the dean at Cleveland Marshall Law School. And this year, this year is their 120th anniversary of the law school. The law school are honoring both Carl and Louis Stokes in October. It’s their 20th year anniversary and they’re honoring them both with the Legacy award. Both of them graduated from Cleveland Marshall Law School, went to night school, worked all the way through. I mean, people who go to Marshall Law School, many have families, many have children, jobs. It’s an opportunity to better yourself and bring your family up. And they are the perfect example of two individuals who did that. So that is also part of their legacy, that they went there. They then brought their talents to the city and they brought their talents, frankly to the country. The fact that Carl Stokes was the first African American mayor of major city in this country, we have lot to be proud of. We have lot to be proud of. Our city of Cleveland, of the people who live here. We have to be. We should be feeling good about all of that and we should feel good about our institutions, our educational institutions that give people the opportunity to lift their lives. What Tri-C itself, what they do, what the college does for the community and the opportunities that they offer people who would never have chance ever. I mean, this is many, many people coming through Tri-C are first-time family members who’ve never- They’re the first ones in their family to have an opportunity to go to college. And so I feel really good about Cleveland. I’ll never leave Cleveland. It’s the best. It’s the best place.
Unknown speaker [00:32:47] Great.
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:33:08] I don’t know. Is that okay? But I’m going to go back to now. The diversity. I just wanted to say the thinking of the- Because I talked about Lee, so I figured let’s keep that there in that chapter. I don’t know, my head is- I’m OCD. So I like, think like, you know. Okay. Oh, God. Okay, okay. What’s the question?
Unknown speaker [00:33:12] Tell me about right now? You never necessarily expected to be running nonprofit and- But you’re doing it now and tell me about that. There is connection back to your experience with Carl?
Peggy Zone Fisher [00:39:27] You know, as think about Carl and Lou Stokes and think of my family and think about where I am today, I was in the corporate world after college. And actually after college I taught English and speech and drama. And then I went on and worked for Senator Howard Metzenbaum writing and researching and writing legislation for him. And then my father passed away and I wanted to help my mother because she had so many children in the family and there was no way knew that went to college. There was no way that she would be able to support young, all these young kids and get them through college. So I shifted gears, left Washington, I came back to Cleveland. Thankfully, I did. I met my husband, ended up having wonderful life here. But I also had a business. And for 30 years, I ran travel business in the city of Cleveland. And it was great, and we did lots of things, and it was a wonderful, wonderful business. And it also gave my mother the opportunity to be able to help her kids go on to college. And so everybody was grown up. Thirty years later, I thought, this is good time to sell. And I didn’t know what I was going to do. But the business at that time had really- I accomplished all the goals wanted to, and felt good about where my siblings were in life. So I sell the business and, you know, people are saying, well, what do you think you’re going to do next? What’s your next move? What’s your next career? I said, you know, I don’t know what it’s going to be, but know I’m going to know it when I see it. So I kind of approached it that way. I wasn’t panicking. I wasn’t thinking, where am I? You know, people had approached me about, come work for our company. You know, we heard you sold your business. We’d like you to do that. Nothing felt right. And then the search committee approached me, and I’m president right now. I’m president and CEO of the Diversity Center of Northeast Ohio. And the Diversity Center, I’ll tell you little bit about it, and you’ll maybe help to understand why I did this. It started in 1927, and it began as the National Conference of Christians and Jews. That was the organization. And over the years, the name changed, really to better reflect the work that we do. And so it was the Diversity Center of Northeast Ohio. The search committee was looking for an executive director, president, CEO. The executive director had retired after 20 years. So somebody approached me, and I remember saying to my husband, you know, know the organization. It really has a wonderful reputation. I think I’m going to go interview only for the experience. For 30 years, was on the other side of the desk. I was doing the interviewing. want to see what it feels like to have an interview. So I went to the interview, and here I am months later, and the position was offered to me. And I was very honest at the time. I said, look, I know how to run a business. I have a business background. I know how to run a business. I don’t think really know how to run a nonprofit, but I know the mission resonated to my core. The mission of the Diversity Center is to work, and it’s been since 1927, to work to eliminate bias, bigotry, and racism. The search committee said, if you know how to run a business, you know how to run a nonprofit. I mean, that’s- There’s a very close correlation, and as long as you have the passion- And I felt like, wow, this is the next chapter in my life to run this prestigious nonprofit, to work to eliminate bias, bigotry, and racism. And we do it through education and advocacy work. And to think that I really felt like my whole life came full circle, that all of sudden I was really meant to do this work. I had the training back from my parents. I learned what social justice was as little girl growing up, not quite understanding even the term social justice, but it just felt- It just resonated and felt right to my core. And I owe lot to where am sitting today, to the people who came before me, who really taught me instinctively to do the right things in this area. I didn’t have an education, education in diversity or social justice, but lived it. And for the last 10 years, we have been educating young people in the nine counties throughout Northeast Ohio, over 15,000 young people all year long to do that kind of work and how to be an ally and how to stand up. And it just felt so natural to me. And so guess where am today, I can thank my parents for the fact that they taught me that they helped me with an education to learn how to do the right things for me, to meet people and get to know people and work with them, like Carl and Mayor Stokes, Carl Stokes and Congressman Louis Stokes. To have that opportunity growing up, and just feel very fortunate. I feel like I was in the real middle of an epicenter that meant a lot and was valuable. So I guess when think back, I have lot to be grateful that the Stokes brothers came into my family’s life.
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