Abstract
Jane Campbell is a native Clevelander. She has the distinction of being Cleveland's first female mayor, serving from 2002 to 2006. She also served in Ohio's House of Representatives from 1985 to 1996. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.
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Interviewee
Campbell, Jane (interviewee)
Interviewer
Perry, Dee (interviewer); Donato, Mike (participant)
Project
Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future
Date
7-24-2017
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
77 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Jane Campbell interview, 24 July 2017" (2017). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 501025.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1197
Transcript
Dee Perry [00:00:05] Hi, this is Dee Perry. It is Monday, July 24, 2017, and we're here at Tri-C Metro Campus with Jane Campbell to talk about the Stokes commemoration project. And thank you so much for being with us today.
Jane Campbell [00:00:20] Well, I wouldn't miss it, Dee.
Dee Perry [00:00:23] Well, I want to take you back to 1965, because there was a pivotal moment that I talked about with your mother, Reverend Campbell, earlier. It was when her church, the church that your family attended, invited the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King to speak, you would have been about 12 years old then, and I'm curious what effect, if any, Dr. King's visit had on you.
Jane Campbell [00:00:51] Well, the interesting thing was my mother, who you've met, is a force of nature. And so she had been working with Dr. King on voter registration and that whole activity. And he said at one of the meetings, I have been to virtually every Black church in Cleveland, and I've never been invited to a white church. So here she is. The minister's been preaching about civil rights, and we've been learning all this. And she says, well, you should come to my church. And he said, yes. And what we saw was the church did not react with great joy. There were really some people who left the church, pulled their money. There was a great deal of commotion, where, in fact, some people felt like that was the moment to redecorate the sanctuary. And so you couldn't possibly have him. But fact is, they didn't realize my mother. And so she said, fine, then he'll be outside and everyone will see. And people said, but, Joan, it might rain. And she said, it won't. And it didn't. And they said, but our microphone system doesn't work now, I have to tell you, we had this rickety microphone system, which I don't remember hardly ever working. And she said, it will work. And that day it worked. I don't think it worked before or since, but that day. And there were a thousand people. But we also felt the real antagonism. I mean, today people think Martin Luther King as an icon and as a role model. Then he was extremely controversial. People began to call the house. We had bomb threat. And of course, my mother, you know, so right here she is. Janie, there's been a bomb threat. And I'm like, oh, what do we do about this? Right? I'm 12. My brother's like, nine and seven. And we're. And she said, clean up under your beds. I will not have the police seeing this place being a wreck. And so we're running around cleaning up under our beds. So that the place looks nice for the police to come search for the bomb. You know, later I said, was there really a bomb threat, or did you just make that up to make us clean up our beds? But you could tell that the tension was very, very real. And so I learned that when you stand for something not easy, there are consequences, and you have to be willing to be in, you know, stand out from the crowd and be in conflict.
Dee Perry [00:03:54] And that said, you developed a social conscience very early in life. I wanted to have you talk a bit more about the role that your mother played in that development and also what your father's influence was?
Jane Campbell [00:04:11] Well, my mother was very involved in civil rights from the perspective of justice, as we are given that call by God through our religion. My father was just as committed to justice. He's a lawyer, and so he was more sort of a. Not that he wasn't a man of faith and isn't a man of faith, but more that for him it was a matter of justice under the law. And he was always, like, super practical about things like, why wouldn't you use all the talents of all the people, regardless of what color, what race, whatever? My mother, it was really, it is a matter of justice that we must create opportunities for everyone. So it was an interesting combination. They really both had that commitment, but they expressed it in very different ways.
Dee Perry [00:05:20] And for yourself, were there issues and causes as a young person that you were especially?
Jane Campbell [00:05:29] Well, we were very involved in our church, and we had a program that had us involved with various inner city projects. I taught swimming at the Portland-Outhwaite Recreation Center, and we were involved in a community service project which ours was called Teen Eastern Area Christian Helpers. And then the west side one was Teen Outreach Through Christian Help. So it was Teach and Torch, and it was an east side, west side collaborative. And that was, you know, early, you know, mid-'60s. I mean, so it was a time where you didn't cross that river very easily. And we crossed it for the intentionality of working in the inner city with mostly young people.
Dee Perry [00:06:35] I mentioned 1965, and that was the first run for mayor by Carl Stokes. Were you? And was your mother involved in the '65 campaign, or was it just '67?
Jane Campbell [00:06:54] Oh, she was involved in both. She was involved in both. And, you know, she had us out knocking on doors. I mean, the first campaign I ever knocked on doors for was Carl Stokes. And, you know, at the time, I had little blonde hair, you know, and so she would take us out and we would go into neighborhoods on the west side and. And tell them. And we had met Carl Stokes. I mean, it's not like we weren't campaigning for somebody that we'd never met. And he had such a big personality. I mean, he was warm and gracious and engaging to everybody of all sorts. And, you know, so to a kid, he's like, you know, big role model. And people were not charmed because they would send us, like, over on the west side, and sometimes people would throw rocks and it wasn't easy.
Dee Perry [00:07:51] Was there ever a time when you were out doing that campaigning door to door when you were by yourself, or were you always with your mom?
Jane Campbell [00:07:59] No, we were always. You know, my mom always kept us with her. She. Honestly, I'm not sure it would have been entirely safe.
Dee Perry [00:08:12] I'm curious about the effect of the first loss in 1965. He did better. Carl Stokes did better than most people would have expected and came very close. But what was the experience of seeing [crosstalk] what happened-
Jane Campbell [00:08:36] In 1965, there was such joy at how well he did that. It wasn't. He didn't win the election, but he set the stage for winning it the next time. Because prior to that time, I don't think people could imagine African American mayor. And that campaign made it possible for people to imagine. And if you can't imagine something, you can't make it happen.
Dee Perry [00:09:11] When the 1967 campaign came around, did you see any different strategy or was it just ramping up as it had been in '65? Was anything different about '67?
Jane Campbell [00:09:30] I was 14, so I was not deeply involved in the strategy. I was just like a complete foot soldier. You know, my mom would say, okay, come on, we're going to go knock on doors. And we would. Or we would like. I thought everybody came home from school and sorted voter registration cards in their living room. You know, when you're like, 12, 13, you think your life is normal, right? And literally, we would come home and there would be a pile of voter registration cards, and we would then have to look on the map and figure out what precinct and what ward, because you had to fill that in to turn them into the Board of Elections. And so we would do that every day. And it was a little later, I was like, you know, nobody else does this. [laughs] This is kind of like a- So I can't tell you what the strategy was. I was not a strategist, I was a doer.
Dee Perry [00:10:29] And I guess I'm also curious if the reception was different the second time. [audio issue] Jane Campbell [00:10:49] I keep wiggling. [crosstalk] Ooh, be careful.
Dee Perry [00:10:56] And I was curious about whether you got- Whether you saw more receptiveness to Carl Stokes as mayor in '67 than you did in '65, or was there still a certain amount of resistance?
Jane Campbell [00:11:14] There was still resistance. And because of, you know, what we did, I mean, I did the sorting of the voter registration cards in my house. Nobody resisted me. There I was just, you know, doing my work. And then when we would go out occasionally and knock on doors, because they tended to send us to places where there might be more resistance because we looked so innocent, it didn't feel different.
Dee Perry [00:11:51] But that said, how did it feel on election night in 1967? Were you up and about as the-
Jane Campbell [00:12:00] I was up. We weren't at. I. You know, my mom went down to board of, wherever the party was, but we didn't- We didn't go, but we watched it on television and, you know, with great interest and great joy. So it was like the fulfillment of a dream.
Dee Perry [00:12:24] Now, Carl Stokes was mayor during a period of time when you were coming of age as a high school student. I'm wondering if you paid attention to what his administration was doing or if your attention was mostly elsewhere at that point.
Jane Campbell [00:12:45] Well, my attention was more else- You know, I was in high school, and I was doing all the normal high school things, and I was on the synchronized swim club and played basketball and volleyball and all that with Marcia Fudge, who was on my team. But you sort of. It was going on in the background, and because my folks were very involved and my mother was very involved. When Carl would organize the clergy, my mother would be part of that effort, even though she wasn't at that time ordained. She was very much a volunteer from the church community. And so the thing there was always could. It seemed like the measure was, could Mayor Stokes keep the peace? It was a time where across the country there were riots and people were being injured, and he was very active in walking the streets himself, getting other clergy to walk the streets and that. We knew that and partly because my father would be like to my mother, are you sure you're safe? I mean, I don't think you shouldn't. My mother's like, I'm going out there and like, oh. So we worried about her safety.
Dee Perry [00:14:31] Was it a surprise to anyone in your family, in your community, when Carl Stokes decided not to run for a third term in 1971?
Jane Campbell [00:14:45] I don't know, a surprise. It was. I mean, it was very tough. You could see that it was a tough, tough job. And the council was not supportive. The business community was, you know, not, didn't quite click with what he was trying to do. And so, I mean, I think the fact he named his book Promises of Power, I think really stated how he felt that he thought he could do more than he was actually able to do. And he was just truly exhausted.
Dee Perry [00:15:34] You just reminded me of something that you said and thought when you were younger and going door to door campaigning for Carl Stokes. And it was something that your mother shared about your thoughts on someone wanting to be mayor.
Jane Campbell [00:15:54] Well, then at that time, you know, people are throwing rocks and all this, and. And I said to my mom, I said, who would want to be mayor of this town? People are mean. And she said, oh, but it matters a lot. And I was like, yeah, okay, fine, I'm going to go on and do whatever I'm going to do. And so she reminded me of that when I told her that I was thinking about running for mayor, you know, umpteen years ago, years past, and she said, I remember when you said that. I said I hadn't remembered that. I didn't use it as my lead in for my announcement. [laughs] Dee Perry [00:16:35] But 1971 was the year you graduated from high school.
Jane Campbell [00:16:44] Correct.
Dee Perry [00:16:45] You had a really interesting mix of people in your high school class.
Jane Campbell [00:16:48] We had a great class. And you look at what people are doing now. Marcia Fudge, who's Congresswoman Peter Lawson Jones, who served and followed me in the state legislature, followed me on the county commission and is now writing plays and being an actor. James Levin, who was the founder of Cleveland Public Theatre and is still very much part of the art and culture of this town. Angie Stokes was in my class. So it was a fascinating group of people. We get together every five years, and if I was going to be stuck on a desert island, that would be a good group of people to be with. [laughs] Dee Perry [00:17:40] So as you're leaving high school and going on to college, at that point in your life, what did you see yourself doing? What were the subjects you gravitated towards in school?
Jane Campbell [00:17:56] Well, when I went to college, I got a degree in History. And at the time I went to college, there was a. There was actually an endowed professorship at the University of Michigan for a woman to teach History that had been empty for five years. The University of Michigan was under HEW - that's what it was called then, Health, Education and Welfare - under investigation for discrimination against women. And so I got very involved in the Women's Studies movement to try to include the stories of women in History and Sociology and whatnot, and ended up being a, like, teaching fellow, even as an undergraduate in American history, because nobody knew the history of what women had done as part of the history of this country. And so it was kind of interesting because there'd been a big push for Black Studies. And so then it became, you know, women's studies became, you know, a piece of that, just like you look at the history of voting rights, and African American men got the vote before all women. So it's been a. It's been a companion effort over the years.
Dee Perry [00:19:33] And I'm wondering how that focus led to, or at least was in companionship with what you did in the mid-'70s. You founded Ohio's first shelter for battered women by 1975. Why was that an important area of focus?
Jane Campbell [00:19:58] Point what we had done right after college, I went into volunteers in service for America, which is the domestic Peace Corps. And, you know, I was going to go out and, you know, see the world. Went out for a year. And I was like, I really love Cleveland. I'm coming home. And 1974 was. 1975 was international women's Year. And there was a very big conference that was put on nationally. And each state had a conference, each city had a conference talking about the issues that were important to women. And Cleveland, really, it was. The Cleveland foundation was very instrumental in making sure that it wasn't just a conference, but it was something that was going to come out of that. And so we created a coalition of women's organizations and dedicated individuals to try to improve the voice of women across the community. And one of the things that we had at that time is there was almost like an underground railroad for women who had been abused, where women would take someone into their home so that they would have shelter. But that was difficult to sustain. It was dangerous, because if the abuser found them, it was dangerous. And there wasn't any support in terms of counseling. Violence against women was not very well understood at that time. And there was. The first shelter for battered women in the country was in Minneapolis. And there was an incredible group of advocates for services to women facing violence. Rape Crisis center operated as a volunteer operation with a phone number where you would call, forwarding. We had and support. People would take it to their home and the police or the hospital would call and a volunteer would go and try to be an advocate. And there was this underground network called Women Together. And I helped. What I ended up doing was becoming the director of the coalition. And so we worked to help to sort of professionalize and institute, institutionalized these services, including creating the first shelter in Ohio for battered Women. The interesting thing is, at the time, Dick Celeste was the lieutenant governor and his home in Lakewood, he allowed us to use his home as the shelter.
Dee Perry [00:23:01] I'm wondering how and why you segued into the political arena from those early advocacy experiences going into, I think, the state legislature.
Jane Campbell [00:23:21] Right. Well, here's what happened is- So I did- It was called the Women's Space Coalition, you know, creating space for women in a variety of different. In a variety of different ways. And in 1979, so I did that from '75 to '79, I got recruited. We were still trying to pass the Equal Rights Amendment to the United States Constitution. And so I got recruited to go to Washington and serve as the outreach director for an organization called the ERA America Campaign. And so I worked on trying to pass the Equal Rights Amendment with the coalition of organizations that was working on that from late '79 through 1982 when the time ran up. And in that context, I worked with state legislators. I worked on state legislative campaigns. I worked with advocates trying to talk to state legislators. I was in all 12 states when the ERA was voted down. And the closer you get to government, the more you realize that these are really just regular people. That was a formative experience. But then I came back home, which had always been my plan, and I did neighborhood economic development at Shaker Square. I became the director of the Friends of Shaker Square, which was the neighborhood association. And in 1984, Mary Boyle, who was in the state legislature, decided to run for county commissioner. And she had been a friend and mentor to me. And she called me early on before she announced her candidacy and said, now, Jane, I'm going to run for the commission, and I think you should run for the legislature. And my immediate reaction was, but I'm so good behind the scenes. I mean, I don't know why I would do that. And she just looked at me and she's like, how many times have I heard you give this speech about women should run for office? This is ridiculous. And she walked out of the room. She said, you think about it. You talk to your mom, you talk to your family. And at the time, I was dating Hunter, who ultimately became my husband, and everybody was supportive. And so I ran for my first office in 1984.
Dee Perry [00:26:05] What was the experience of being a state legislator? Did you have any expectations of how it would be, what you would be able to do?
Jane Campbell [00:26:17] Oh, yeah. I believed that I could really make a difference as a state legislator, and I think I did. At the time, I was the youngest woman ever elected. I was Elected when I was 31 and there were only nine women out of the 99 members of the chamber. Actually, Lou Stokes was instrumental. And when I had my swearing in ceremony, he administered the oath to me and he was a lot of guidance. It was very interesting because when I first ran, it was a primary, it was a Democratic district, and there were seven people who talked about running. Ultimately, there were three of us that ran. And one of the guys I ran against was the Democratic ward leader in Cleveland Heights. Cleveland Heights was more than half my district and Cleveland Heights was in Congressman Stokes district. And so he said to me he didn't support me in the primary publicly, but he didn't support my opponent either. And that was extremely important because he just said, I'll just stand down and you know, you have to take this fight. And as soon as I won the primary, he was, he said, you know, I'm. I'm there. I'm proud of you, I'm happy to help. And he provided a lot of behind the scenes guidance as things went through. So I learned in the legislature that probably the most important thing is to follow the money and be involved in how the public money is used, which is what Congressman Stokes did, you know. And he was a. They called him a cardinal of Congress. He was the chairman of a critical subcommittee of the Appropriations Committee, and at that time was able to direct monies in a number of different ways. And you can see the impact all over this city of his being there to follow the money.
Dee Perry [00:28:42] Yeah, and I want to talk a bit more about that, but I want to go backwards again for just a bit because I'm curious what sort of relationship you had with Louis Stokes before that point. Was he- Did he and your mother work together? Did you know him from other settings?
Jane Campbell [00:29:04] Well, he and my mother certainly worked together on Carl's campaign and then on other civil rights activities as he became a member of Congress. And he was very supportive as we worked on the women's issues. He was very supportive of women's inclusion and voices, matters related to violence against women. He was my congressman where I lived. And I always felt extremely well represented. I was very fortunate in that way. So I had a relationship in that way. So when I ran for office, it wasn't like I had to meet him at that point. I already knew him and knew him from working on issues of civil rights, social justice, women's issues. And so plus Angie had been in high school with me, so I mean, I knew him as Angie's dad. That was another way. So it was a little different kind of connection.
Dee Perry [00:30:17] Now you segued from the legislature to the county commissioner's office. Was that at the encouragement of someone else, or did you say, no, this is the logical next step?
Jane Campbell [00:30:31] Well, there were a combination of things. I served ultimately 12 years in the legislature, and a number of things happened. I had two children while I served in the legislature, and the kids were getting older, and when they're little, it's easier to leave them with somebody, but when they're getting older and they've got school projects and. And it's more difficult to be away a couple nights a week. So there was that. That was a personal situation. Politically, we had lost the majority. And being in the legislature, in the majority, you set the agenda. You have an ability to do things in a much more effective manner than as a member of the minority. As a member of the minority, you have to try to weasel your way in. You know, you spend a lot of time objecting. And it just didn't seem worth driving 2 hours and 45 minutes to object. And there was an opportunity to govern in Cuyahoga county. And we had a. We had at that time, a situation where there was an appointed county commissioner, a guy named Lee Weingart. He got appointed when Jim Petro got elected to be the attorney general. So he'd never been elected. And because Mary Boyle had decided not to run for reelection, but instead to run for the United States Senate, which she ultimately didn't win, but she did that. There was now no women on the commission. And I thought it was important because the commission is in charge of health and human services and economic development, workforce development, and I believe that you need to have women's voices at every level. So it seemed like it was worth the risk. I had to give up my. You know, I couldn't run for reelection for my seat if I ran for county commission. And Lee was the incumbent, and he was a very good fundraiser. He raised about a million dollars. I raised $200,000, and I ultimately beat him, which was great. But it was touch and go the whole time. And you know how your kids pick up everything. And we had this tradition in our house that we tried to keep Sunday morning for the family. And we went to church, and then we would go to lunch, and we had this little place where we went and had pizza afterwards. And there was a sign that said, you know, help wanted. So Jessica, with all her helpfulness, said to me, so this is 1996. So she is nine, right? She says, mom, you don't need to worry if you. Because we had said, if I didn't win, then I'd have to get a new job because I would be unemployed. So she says, mom, don't worry. They are hiring people here and you know how to make pizza. She just thought that was so helpful. And, you know, you don't want to, like, laugh at your kid. Like I said, well, that's really helpful, Jess. I appreciate you have that confidence in me that I will be employed. But you did win. I did win. I did win.
Dee Perry [00:34:34] So what was that experience compared to being a legislator, the Cuyahoga County commissioners? Did you feel like you had more of a say in government in that role?
Jane Campbell [00:34:47] Yes. The interesting thing, Legislature, you have at that time about 125,000 people in your district. So you can really know pretty much what's going on. Commission is the whole county. Million and a half at that time, it's about a million and a half people. So there's a lot more people with a lot more different ideas. The legislature sets the policy, determines where the money's going. And so you think you're making, like, critical decisions, and you are. But when you become a county commissioner, there's just three of you, and you are the legislature and the executive. So you actually are involved in hiring people, you know, having to lead large, complex bureaucracies of, you know, employees that you don't know, and you're responsible, whereas in the legislature, the executives responsible. So you say, this is what they should do. When you're the commissioner, you're them. And so it was a good transition in that way. Tim Hagan was on the county commission when I first got elected, and he was incredibly helpful. He was a huge support, especially as we dealt with welfare reform and how we were going to respond to that challenge.
Dee Perry [00:36:25] When did you first consider running for mayor? And in that answer, I'd like to get a sense of what moved you from a long time ago saying, why would anyone want that, to saying, I want that?
Jane Campbell [00:36:41] Well, interesting. I was elected to the commission in 96. I was re elected in 2000. Mike White was the mayor, and in his last term, there had been some controversy that had developed, and a couple people asked me would I run? And I said I would absolutely not run against him. I think he deserves the right to continue to be mayor if that's what he wants to do. And he really surprised all of us. So I kind of thought about it and put it to bed. And he surprised all of us because it was probably Memorial Day when he announced that he wasn't going to run. And filing was early August in 2001, and there was no obvious candidate. There were ultimately 10 of us that ran. But the interesting thing is, while the county commissioner represents more people, has a similar size budget, the mayor is the person that people look to for leadership of the community. Not just the city, but the broader community. And I saw that, you know, we used to laugh because it's like when something happens in the town, the county cuts the check, the mayor cuts the ribbon, always. And even if the city didn't put the money in, the mayor is the. Is the person. And so I looked around at the choices and I said, I can do that. I want to do that. I believed that I had worked east side and west side, Black and white, and that some of the divisions that were and still are part of this community that I could address. And so I put my name in the hat, and we began a series of some of the most boring debates that you have ever seen. I mean, you watched the last presidential, you know, when there was this big, huge number of Republican candidates, and people were like, this is boring. I said, man, you should not have seen 10 candidates for mayor. And everybody had to answer the question. It was boring when you were in the debates. And then all of a sudden, September 11th happened in the middle, right at a critical moment of the campaign that morning. I will never forget the show that comes on before Good Morning America, Wake Up Cleveland, whatever it's called, was doing a series on the candidates for mayor, and they were doing us alphabetically. I was the third in the Alphabet with Campbell. That tells you how many candidates there were. And so I had gone to do my interview about, you know, how great what I really could do for mayor. So I'm like, you know, hair and makeup and awake and whatever. It's done. 6:30, I'm done, right? And gone to a meeting. And I was leaving the Marriott Hotel from a breakfast meeting, and the valet said, commissioner, something terrible is happening. And turned on the radio in my car and heard the second tower get hit. At that point, I was county commissioner, so I had to go back because we had to figure out, you remember, that the Flight 93 was taken over Cleveland airspace. And so there was some question about whether there was. Our air traffic controllers heard part of it. Everybody was just in this state of confusion or whatever. So the campaign pretty much shut down almost for a week. And when we went back at. Had a completely different tone. It was really, I think, to a certain extent, one of the reasons I won is because I was a known leadership person. By that time, having been county commissioner, people had seen who I was and how I operated. And I think that helped.
Dee Perry [00:41:49] Once you were. No, before, actually, before we get to the office, I'm also curious about your strategy. I mean, did you use techniques that you had seen decades earlier in the Carl Stokes campaign, or did you have a different way of going about saying, hi, I'm Jane Campbell, I want to be your mayor?
Jane Campbell [00:42:17] I think the actual knocking on doors and human contact, it's what I saw in Carl's campaign. And Lou stokes had an incredible political operation. I'm sure people have told you about the 21st District caucus, changed, 11th, whatever. They met every single week, every week and talked about what were the issues, what was going on. And he couldn't always be there, but there was always someone from his office. And when I was in the state legislature, I went. I didn't go every week, but I went often. I went a couple times a month. It was a way to be in touch with people and really have a sense of the community, what was on people's mind. So I stayed with that. When I was. When I was in the legislature and when I was county commissioner, it was very much a part of my political work. And I mean, truth. Lou stokes swore me into every office I took, including mayor. I mean, you know the picture of me taking the oath of office each time. And one time he had lost his voice. And so Angie, read the words because he still wanted to do it. And so. He was very much a mentor of mine.
Dee Perry [00:44:07] Now, once you were in office, what were you facing? What were the challenges that immediately presented themselves as mayor?
Jane Campbell [00:44:21] As mayor, the single biggest challenge was the finances. People think that the economic challenges of this country happened in 2008. We were early to the party. In 2001, when I became mayor, we had a $500 million general fund budget and a $60 million deficit. And you can't have a deficit in local government. You have to pay your bills. So we had to be very intentional about. Right. Sizing the government. I didn't think it was the right time to raise taxes because I thought part of. We took a look at it. We had a good group of volunteers from the business community and the finance community to help analyze. We had the similar sized government when we had a million people, and we had half a million people, a little less than half a million people. So we made. We had to go through what were some very, very hard choices. And that doesn't make you necessarily Popular. For example, we looked at how our police officers were deployed. We had uniformed police officers with guns behind locked doors, watching evidence. And that wasn't. We had more police officers per person living or working in Cleveland than any other city in America except Kansas City and Washington, D.C. Now, Washington, D.C., is a unique situation. Why Kansas City has all those police officers, who knows? But we put the police officers on the street, working directly with the folks and some of the back office things we felt that civilians could do. And so we had to make some of those changes. We didn't fill positions and then had to do a different. How do you make sure that people are effective? How do you measure. One of the things that we brought into city government was a measurement using sort of a computerized network. How long does it take from the time someone makes a call or an inquiry about an abandoned building or a building that's falling down to have the building inspector come? You know, there was a lot of problems with abandoned buildings, with buildings being decayed, but nobody could tell whether it was the inspectors or whether it was the court. There are so many different actors. And so we tried to sort of break it down so that you could follow what's actually happening and then you could begin to impact, to make things more effective. And we were fortunate that we put that since we had support from the Cleveland and Gun foundation to do it. We did it toward the end of my administration, but I think it still is operational. We started with building and housing and with police response. How quickly were we doing police response? And so the whole question of how do you dedicate resources? Was overarching. The other thing we had was that at the time I took office, the only development project that was underway. There were two. One was the renewal of the projects on Woodland, which was an investment made by Congressman Stokes. And the other was the expansion of the runway at Cleveland Hopkins Airport. But other than that, there was really no development projects that were underway. And the development process is very lengthy. We had to really start a front-end process to look at- And one of the things that there were a couple of folks who were really believing in downtown Cleveland, which at that time not too many people believed in, and it was East 4th Street was the idea. Ari Maron and Rick Maron, his dad, and David Goldberg. There were four developers that had purchased the property on both sides of the street of East 4th. And the comedy club was there and it was operational. And they came and said if we would invest in the infrastructure to really change, change the character of the street with street lighting and make it a more pedestrian-friendly area, that they would invest in a mixed-use project. And they had a tentative agreement from the House of Blues to come in. And so we put this whole piece together. And so then by now it's like 2000 to maybe the beginning of 2003. And we went into the municipal bond market to try to sell the bonds to do the infrastructure. And the initial reaction of the market was that they didn't believe that the project would succeed. And my finance director, Bob Baker, who was the best finance director I think Cleveland has ever had, he was a retired Jones Day partner. And he finally said to me, Mayor, how much do you care about this? Do you really want to do this? And I said, I do, because remember, East 4th Street at the time was hat stores and wig stores and there was all kind of allegations that people were dealing drugs and running numbers. And it was right in the heart of what was going to, you know, you had to sort of cut the cancer out and redevelop it with healthy activities. And he said, well, we could buy the bonds ourselves because we make investments because the income tax money comes in over time. And I said, is that legal? And he said, yes, but we have to go through the sinking fund process. And there's a process where you get the signatures of all the- The law director, the finance director, the president of council and maybe somebody else. There were four signatures, I guess the mayor, Frank Jackson, was the president of Council. And so I went to him and I said, this is what we'd like to do. And he looked at me and he said, you are out of your mind, but you're the mayor and you ought to be able to do this. I am not going to make any stink about it, but I'm not going to come to the meeting because I can't imagine this is going to succeed. And I want it to be your project. I said, that's a fair deal. He never said a word. He just didn't come to the meeting. We move forward. And now every time you see Cleveland, East 4th street is like where they're doing the story. But that was what you had to start stuff. And then we did the whole. We were determined to try to build new housing units across the city and in the neighborhoods. We set a goal to do 25,000 new housing units every year, new or rehabilitated, which we did. And we started the process of planning the lakefront because, you know, this city has. The lakefront is such a value. But if you think about the best way to understand how little people thought of the lake is to look at the Holiday Inn, which is the lakefront Holiday Inn, the way it's designed. The parking garage faces the lake, and that just tells you the story of what, you know, people didn't think that you would want to look at the lake. The Shoreway, you know, was a fast lane. And so we came up with the whole idea of calming the Shoreway and being able to create more opportunities to get to the lake. And then ultimately worked with the land assembly for the east bank of the flats, which is still a project underway. But did the infrastructure, you know, I mean, so what we did was helped with the land assembly and the sewer and water. Then later on, the buildings could come up. So I feel like there's a legacy. And then we also worked on the recreation centers. Our focus was first making them warm, safe and dry. The time we went into our recreation centers, and many of them, the heat didn't work, the insulation didn't work, the lighting was terrible. And so we began a process of that and actually secured the Big Lots building that is now the Collinwood Recreation Center. So a series of getting stuff started, but it all took, you know, it took a long time, and we didn't have many resources to do it.
Dee Perry [00:55:36] On that note, you mentioned Congressman Lou Stokes and what he contributed to Cleveland's and Ohio's forward movement during your tenure as mayor, what kinds of. What kinds of input and communications did you have with the congressman?
Jane Campbell [00:55:59] We talked with the congressman, you know, pretty well. By the time I was there, Stephanie. By the time I was mayor, Stephanie was the congresswoman. Lou Stokes had retired. So Stephanie was my congresswoman. Woman. Lou Stokes was sort of the senior, the elder, you know. So my direct conversations with Lou as a public official were when I was. When I was in the legislature and when I was county commissioner, Stephanie was my. Was my congresswoman, and we talked a lot. I will never forget, you know, on good times and bad times, when the shooter was at Case Western Reserve University. Remember that? I called Stephanie because I- Ed Hundert, who was at that time the president of Case, had been president for two weeks. I had talked to him on the phone. I'd never met him in person. And I had to call him when the police told me that there's two people you never want to see in your office when you're mayor unannounced. Your finance director, he never comes in with good news unannounced. And your health and safety guy never comes in with good news. So my health and safety guy comes into my office. Mayor, we have a problem. I said, I see your face. What's the matter? And he said, there's an active shooter at Case Western Reserve University and things are not in control. I said, oh, my. So I called the president. By this time, they had figured out the police had figured out that his office was. Was outside of the secure perimeter. And I said, Mr. President, you have a really big problem. And I'm on my way to your office and we're going to have your office be the command center because you're going to want to know what's going on. And as they brief me, they can brief you. And he's like, what? I said, stay still. And I called Stephanie and I said, Stephanie, this is, you know, not only is it her district, but it was. Her home is right there. You know, not, you know, she's right on the back. Her house was right on the backside of Case. And so she was. She was ultimately came out and was with us. We were in a- I was probably in his office from 3:00 in the afternoon until about 1:30 in the morning when we finally reunited the families. I mean, that was probably a more dramatic moment. But we talked back and forth about a variety of public policy issues.
Dee Perry [00:59:27] I'm thinking about legacy questions. You were and still are the only woman to serve as mayor of Cleveland. I'm wondering what you feel like is the thing you point to and say, I'm most proud of that.
Jane Campbell [00:59:57] I think the thing I'm most proud of in my service as mayor is the people that I brought in to government and brought together. When Frank Jackson beat me in the reelection, he kept almost half of the cabinet that I had assembled, which is a tribute to the members of the cabinet and to Mayor Jackson as well, that he recognized that these were people who were here for the good of the city. And he didn't have, you know, people. There were few people he had trouble with and he asked them to move on. But some of them are still, are, you know, still serving at this time. And then you can see where some of the folks who worked in my cabinet and where they have moved to throughout the city. Chris Ronayne, who was my chief of staff ultimately and is now running University Circle Incorporated so well, and his now wife, Natalie, who was my Parks and Recreation director, then ran the Botanical Gardens. So there's a real sense of, ultimately, I think, what you can talk about the projects, and I do think the lakefront is important. The focus on the recreation centers The Collinwood Recreation Center, the east forth and the East Bank of the Flats. But some of it is the, you know, the more modest things. When I first took. Took over, the city had a series of health clinics that were not very strong. And we. I said, why? I'd come from the county. I said, why is the city running health clinics when we have a wonderful public hospital at Metro Health? And why don't we just turn over the running of the health clinics to the county hospital that knows what they're doing? And that's what we did. It's sort of. You'll never see it, but it. You know, so there's now strong neighborhood health centers that are run by the county hospital. That is. That's their core business. So we were trying to make some determinations in that way.
Dee Perry [01:02:50] And can you also trace a line to things that are happening and in place now from the Carl Stokes administration and from congressman Louis Stokes? What would you look around and say that's a legacy of the Stokes brothers?
Jane Campbell [01:03:09] Boy, the legacy of Stokes brothers is so extensive that, you know, the public library, the beautiful downtown public library is really something that was definitely a Stokes legacy. A lot of the activity at University circle is Stokes legacy. The community college. I mean, we're right here at community college. And I know when I was in the state legislature and I was on the finance committee calling Jerry Sue Thornton and we were working on the capital budget, I said, now, Jerry Sue, here's what we- She's like, I need this for my east campus. Okay, okay, we're going to try to do this. And you know, we. And we always did that together with congressman Stokes and built. I mean, this is probably one of the best community colleges in. In the country. And it is because there was dedicated investment who knew that the rock and roll hall of fame was really a Tri-C project, the center for contemporary music and some of the unsung heroes. Pat Sweeney, who was in the state legislature, helped figure that out so that we could support the rock and roll hall of Fame by giving an investment in. In Cuyahoga Community College. And every time there was a federal investment, it was always Lou Stokes that was the one who was guiding it. And I think he set that stage and set the table for Stephanie Tubbs Jones when she came in, who was a distinguished congresswoman in and of her own right. But she benefited by having congressman Stokes still kind of helping out behind the scenes. I remember when we were doing what's now the health line, the bus rapid transit center, there were a number of issues that we ran into, particularly because we had passed the law requiring that all city projects have 20% of the people who work the hours worked by city residents. Because there was a real sense that if the city was going to invest money, we ought to make sure that our people got employed. And when we did, the Euclid Avenue corridor was what it was called at the time. The federal government didn't want to let us do that. And so Congressman Stokes was retired from Congress, but still active. So I called him up and I said, can I hire you to be my advocate? And he's like, what? And I said, I just need to see if you can any way convince the federal government to let us allow. Allow this law to stand. And so he got very involved in that effort to try to make that happen. Ultimately, they did not agree to do that. But even now, there's a pilot program at the federal level to allow local communities to do that. So things take a long time to get done.
Dee Perry [01:06:49] That said, I'm wondering what you can say to young people today about social activism and political involvement as they look towards the future.
Jane Campbell [01:07:07] Well, I personally believe that political involvement is essential to building a future. And that for people who say, I don't like politics, you know, I don't like politicians, you're just giving up on. The fact of the matter is that we're going to live in a society that has a government. Either you're going to be part of it or you're going to be governed by it in any event. So, you know, stop and think about now. Not everybody needs to run, but I think everybody needs to participate from something as basic as voting. But if you think about, you know, the other thing is everybody who has ever worked with and for a public office, a politician is going to at some point be disappointed because at some point the politician is going to make a decision that you disagree with. And somehow you have to just stay engaged because you think about members of your family. At some point, every member of your family has made a decision that you didn't agree with. And I always say to somebody, somebody will call me. You know what? The always bad news that someone calls you and says, I voted for you. This is never the start of a good conversation. They don't call to say, I voted for you. Oh, and I'm so happy about that, aren't you? No, I voted for you. And why are you doing blah, blah, blah, or worse, I gave you money. Congratulations. You didn't buy me, but you know, you gave me money. Those are Two ways to never start a conversation with a politician because you know it's a bad one. But if people work with someone who they believe has basically good values and is willing to listen, it's worth doing. It's worth doing. And if we stand aside, somebody else is going to do it. And you're still going to have to pay your taxes and you're still going to have schools, and you either want to have your taxes well spent and your schools responding to the needs of your kids, and you want to be involved, so can't miss it.
Dee Perry [01:09:45] And I think just a final question along the same lines, what are some recommendations you give when youngsters or others say, how can I get involved in community leadership?
Jane Campbell [01:10:00] I think there's three things I would say. Number one, do something you really care about. If you really care about kids learning sports, you can volunteer to work in a, you know, a little league, a sports thing. If you really care about architecture, you can be involved in historic preservation. If you care about environmental activities. I mean, there's a whole range of things, but work with something you really care about and, and that will show. I got started because I worked on making sure women's voices got heard, because I really cared about that. And so people believed that I was sincere in what I did, as opposed to someone saying, well, I want to be elected. Why? What do you want to do? People are not going to vote for you because you want to be elected, because you want to be a state legislator, a mayor, whatever. They want to know, what are you going to do for them? That's the idea, and that's based on what have you done in your private life? So that's one thing. Second thing is, I think it is much more satisfying to work on a local office where you can actually interact with the principal. Where if you work with someone who's running for city council or school board or state legislator, mayor of a small city, you get a chance to really talk to them, and you get a chance to maybe drive them and help them go where they need to go, talk to them at a meeting, learn the background issues. And so people get all excited about a presidential campaign. And essentially when you work on a presidential campaign, you walk into the office and they say, here's the script. Make these 1200 phone calls, or, you know, here's a script. Go knock on these doors and give us this report. You don't really get to have the kind of hands on communication that you do in a local office. Now, Lou Stokes made that different when he did the 21st District caucus. And he's one of the few members of Congress that there was a very clear path about how you got involved. And then he also had a very clear path. If you wanted his support and you were running for something else, you had to go by his 21st District Caucus folks. You had to listen to them and get engaged there. And then you had to do the 21st District Caucus parade down Kinsman Avenue. And it was a long. It was a long parade. And he always said, I want people to see exactly what it's like where my people live. And if you didn't come to that parade, he wasn't interested in having a further conversation with you. And Stephanie kept the parade up. Marsh is still doing it. I mean, that parade is going on. So when I became mayor, we did the streetscape and paved Kinsman Avenue was really so much fun. I mean, he wasn't anymore the congressman Stephanie was, but it was. We had to phase it so that it would be ready, you know, so they could still run the parade.
Dee Perry [01:14:03] I think that is all the questions.
Mike Donato [01:14:06] Can I ask one question? Do you have a second for one more here?
Jane Campbell [01:14:09] Sure.
Mike Donato [01:14:10] You have an interesting perspective with Carl and Lou because you were there, you knew him personally, your family, and then his constituent, his public official. How did those two inspire or influence you personally? You can just talk to me.
Jane Campbell [01:14:26] Well, they were very different personalities. Carl is a very large personality. He's very. He's drop dead gorgeous. And he's always sort of giving you the sense of the future and the hope in a wonderful way. I mean, when he came back and then, you know, immediately got elected judge and was involved and, you know, always was the personality. Lou had a wonderful and warm personality, but he was quieter, but he was so incredibly effective. He knew every detail of his district. He knew every detail of how to work that United States Congress. And he knew every detail about how he was a master at. He knew people's lives. He really, really paid attention and knew about people's children and their parents and just very quietly helped people in incredible ways. And so could you be a melding of those two? If I could ever do that, I would be. It would be perfect. And I think when you have role models, you pick the best in people and, you know, you can never make it to all of that, but you want to have somebody to look up to. And I looked up to both of them and still do for different gifts that they have.
Mike Donato [01:16:36] Awesome. That's good. Yeah.
Dee Perry [01:16:39] And is there anything that we didn't touch on that maybe-
Jane Campbell [01:16:43] I can't imagine! [laughs]
Dee Perry [01:16:47] Then I think we're done.
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