Abstract

Sister Alvarado and Jose Feliciano are both active in the Hispanic community. She was only a junior in High School when she worked in a storefront campaign office to help Carl Stokes run for Mayor. He made history by becoming Cleveland's first Hispanic chief prosecuting attorney. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.

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Interviewee

Alvarado, Alicia (interviewee); Feliciano, Jose (interviewee)

Interviewer

Perry, Dee (interviewer)

Project

Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future

Date

9-19-2017

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

69 minutes

Transcript

Dee Perry [00:00:04] This is Dee Perry on Monday, September 18, 2017, at the Jerry Sue Thornton Center of Tri-C with two more interviews for the Stokes commemoration project. I'll be speaking with Sister Alicia Alvarado and José Feliciano. Sister is A,L,I,C,I,A, first name, last name A L,V,A,R,A,D,O, and José, J,O,S,E, Feliciano, F,E,L,I,C,I,A,N,O. Thank you both for being here. So I want to have both of you talk about what neighborhood was home for you when you were growing up. Sister Alvarado?

Alicia Alvarado [00:00:54] The neighborhood I was growing up was the near west side of Cleveland. Now, we went to different homes, I guess, because my dad- We'd just kind of move around until we found the right neighborhood. And the right neighborhood was during where St. Patrick's Bridge was St. Patrick's on Bridge, the church parish. But there were a lot of other Hispanics. We always- My parents, we always try to find good neighborhoods where there were Hispanics, people that we knew because it became really wonderful to be able to talk in your own language and be able to have a good neighborhood. So the near west side of Cleveland, where my friend here and I grew up. 

José Feliciano [00:01:42] My daughter. 

Dee Perry [00:01:44] And were you in the same neighborhood?

José Feliciano [00:01:45] We were practically neighbors. We lived two blocks apart. We lived- St. Patrick's had a school on Whitman Avenue. I live right across the street from the school and the church is behind it. It is on Bridge Avenue. And it probably was the first Hispanic church, de facto Hispanic church in Cleveland. And since I lived so close to the church, I remember as an altar boy, first became an altar boy. I served 6:30 mass. It was 6:30, 7:30 and 8:30 masses. Okay. So when you're the new altar boy, I'm 10 years old, I get 6:30 masses, right? And so I wanted to do such a good job, so I was so conscientious, I'd get there early. Sometimes I'd knock on the rectory and the priest wasn't quite there. I said, we gotta get going, gotta light the candles and everything. And so for doing such a great job at 6:30 mass, I wanted to move up. Guess what my reward was. More 6:30 masses.

Alicia Alvarado [00:02:41] That was fun. That was fun.

Dee Perry [00:02:43] You mentioned the phrase de facto, which made me think of something that when I was a kid, my parents and grandparents were given a clear message that there were only certain neighborhoods that they could move into safely. And there were others where they were not welcome to move. And I wondered if you and your families got the same message that there were certain parts of the city that you were free to go and others not.

Alicia Alvarado [00:03:11] I believe so.

José Feliciano [00:03:13] I mean I don't remember that, but I don't remember that. [crosstalk] But I think that's just what happened. It occurred in our neighborhood. There was a lot of Puerto Rican families, and I think that that's sort of where the Puerto Rican community established itself. And so I think that's where they kept us initially and-

Alicia Alvarado [00:03:32] But we felt comfortable. That was the thing. I think it was a welcoming neighborhood, and that's where my parents wanted to be, where there was people that- Different cultures, because it was a mixed, mixed- There were a lot of- There were Polish. There were, you know, and so. But it was very welcoming, the near west side. 

José Feliciano [00:03:54] It was a great neighborhood. 

Alicia Alvarado [00:03:55] Yeah.

José Feliciano [00:03:56] And it was historically an Irish neighborhood. It was the first Irish parish in the diocese. And that beautiful old church on St Paul's the Irish went up to Sandusky to bring that limestone back. And so it always had a tradition of being open. And although initially largely Irish, as sisters said, there was lots of Polish, ethnic Czechs. It was just a mixture. It was a great neighborhood to grow up in, and that's.

Alicia Alvarado [00:04:21] My parents liked that, and they thought it would be a good place to raise their family.

Dee Perry [00:04:30] Now, Sister Alvarado, when you were about 14 or 15, Carl Stokes first ran for mayor of Cleveland. That was 1965. What did you hear from your family or friends or the news about Mr. Stokes and his chances of winning?

Alicia Alvarado [00:04:50] Oh, I got that from my father because he was out and, you know, like, when he would meet all the other Hispanics in the neighborhood, like Dave's Supermarket used to be A and P and Dave's. Okay. And then La Borincana, where we used to go to La Borincana. People, other Hispanics, people would talk about it and hear the name. And that's how I got it from my father, really. And I heard that, and my father [inaudible] me, Look, there's someone special that's running for mayor, and I want you to be able to be a part of it. But I was 14. You know, I was just going into high school, so it felt good. You know, I said, wow, I get this independence of being able to be a part of something great. I didn't know it at that time, but it was.

Dee Perry [00:05:50] Now, a couple of years later, in 1967, you did get involved. Talk about that. What did you do and why did you do it? Why did you become a volunteer?

Alicia Alvarado [00:06:02] Oh, because when I heard him speak, when I heard Carl speak, it just resonated within my heart. And he was- He had such charisma, and that attracted me, and I felt so much at home and welcoming, you know, and I even invited him to our house. Hopefully we'll reach that. I don't remember if he did come, but maybe he did, you know, because he was that kind of person. And. And I felt good about it. I felt good about it. So my father instinct did that because my mother was not that political, my father was. And so I got it through my father. That's, you know, that over the years, I became more involved in the community. It was through my parents, actually. My mom kind of supported the whole thing.

José Feliciano [00:06:58] Well, you know that eventually Sister was involved with César Chavez and traveled all over the country with Cesar Chavez. So that started back then. And so maybe if it doesn't start, then you don't end up traveling throughout a good part of the United States.

Alicia Alvarado [00:07:13] Yes, that's true.

José Feliciano [00:07:14] With César Chavez.

Alicia Alvarado [00:07:15] That's true. That's true.

Dee Perry [00:07:17] And what were you doing as a volunteer? What kinds of duties did you have?

Alicia Alvarado [00:07:21] Oh, I did during the campaign, of course, I had all these flyers. I got all my high school classmates involved. You know, we. I went to St. Stephen's High School. Okay, it was a girls school. And so I got my friends involved at that time and said, look, there's some. Some Carl is running for mayor. And so we would help with the flyers and go to the different houses, knock on doors, make phone calls. We did at that time. We still do this, calling at that.

Dee Perry [00:07:56] What kind of responses did you get when you knocked on doors and when you made the phone calls? What were people saying?

Alicia Alvarado [00:08:01] Well, I was in such a welcoming neighborhood and everybody was, you know, accepting. There was a lot of acceptance, and they knew that there was something special that was going to happen. Trying to elect the first Black mayor of the city of Cleveland, that was big thing. So we. We worked really hard. I did a lot of phone callings at that time. You know, it emerged.

José Feliciano [00:08:28] But not everyone was like that, because in the ward over, Mike Zone was councilman in the adjacent ward, and his wife, Mary Zone, became the councilwoman. And then his daughter is Peggy Zone Fisher, and Matt Zone is the councilman in that district now. So just extraordinary. I always call Mr. Zone the first Hispanic councilman, even though he was Italian, because he was very accepted. He stood up for Hispanics. But Peggy Zone Fisher tells me the story that at that time, only one third of the city was African American. So two thirds of the city was not. And they lived in a largely conservative Italian neighborhood. And Peggy told me that one day they went out to dinner on a Saturday night and then they came back and spray painted on their house was nigger lover. So this was still a time where there was a lot of racial tension in America. And so that still was a part of that campaign.

Dee Perry [00:09:35] And were you part of it, José?

José Feliciano [00:09:38] No, I unfortunately wasn't. Sister was a lot more active. She always does it better than I do. And so I was not involved in. I wasn't involved in campaign. I got later involved in helping people find jobs when I was in college, but not that early.

Alicia Alvarado [00:09:56] But we also had Hispanics that moved to the east side. So the east siders didn't want to cross the bridge, but they were on the east side. And so we would go to the east side as well to get our Hispanics moving and going. So, so, but that was something how the east siders, Hispanics would move. They came to the east side.

José Feliciano [00:10:23] On the near east side.

Alicia Alvarado [00:10:25] The near west side.

José Feliciano [00:10:26] Remember Hijos de Borinquen used to be over there. Remember that? Yes, yes, the social service organization.

Alicia Alvarado [00:10:32] So it was a mixture, see? And then. But they came. The Hispanics moved to the, came to the west side. They could travel back and forth. So we were able to access that through the campaign.

Dee Perry [00:10:46] So the culmination of the campaign was election night. Did you stay up, either or both of you, the whole night, or did you not know that Carl Stokes had won until the next day?

José Feliciano [00:11:01] Well, I don't have an exact memory of it. I just remember it was really exciting. But I do want to share with you a concept that Judge José Villanueva articulated, which I think was absolutely true. We had an event for the mayor and for Lou Stokes about a month ago. Two weeks ago.

Alicia Alvarado [00:11:20] Two weeks ago.

José Feliciano [00:11:21] And Judge Villanueva retired. Count, please.

Alicia Alvarado [00:11:25] Judge.

José Feliciano [00:11:25] Judge. A real man of history who was elected countywide, Hispanic. All right? He was elected four times, and the only person in the history of the state of Ohio to have done that. So very significant accomplishment, the first. And then he continued to do that. So in any event, his observation was, and I'm going to steal this judge, so don't get mad at me. He said at the event that we had, he pointed out to a young guy named Louise Cartagena and he said, you remember when Barack Obama was elected President, how exciting and interesting it was and how energizing you were. And he said, well, Barack Obama or Carl Stokes was our Barack Obama. And that's exactly right. That's exactly right. The energy, the excitement, the fun of it all. So that's how I remember when I learned that that's what drew us Mayor Stokes was elected.

Alicia Alvarado [00:12:22] But I didn't know if I can say this. I didn't know until I was in high school. So I didn't know until. Until the next day when my mother heard the news and told me, you know. So

José Feliciano [00:12:35] I don't think anybody knew the next day because that's when the ballads were manually counted. And it was like three or four in the morning before. So it wasn't now where they do all this electronic stuff and they can tell. And the east side ballot wards always had a history of coming in late.

Alicia Alvarado [00:12:52] Yeah.

Dee Perry [00:12:56] Once you did know that Carl Stokes had won for mayor, what did you hear people saying about it in the neighborhood, in the streets? Were you hearing discussions or reading things about it? I mean you were happy, but was. Were more. But I guess. Did you hear other reactions?

Alicia Alvarado [00:13:25] The reactions that I heard were from my parents and their counterparts. You know, they. They were very excited to elect the first Black mayor. Well, I would say he was one of us. You know, he was light skinned, but he was one of us. We didn't. We didn't. That's what my dad said. He's one of us and we need to make sure that he is in for some time.

José Feliciano [00:13:54] There was a sense of hope and I think two specific things come to mind. Number one was that people thought, well, maybe we can get a job at City Hall. Which was a big deal. Getting a job at City Hall was a big deal. And the mayor made a commitment and did do that. But that was a sense that I remember people would find that maybe they'd get a job. The second was trying to get involved in politics. And then shortly after that there were a number of people that ran. It was the old Ward 8.

Alicia Alvarado [00:14:19] Yes.

José Feliciano [00:14:20] And then this goes way back. Remember people ran that didn't run before as a result of the mayor. So Moisés Maldonado. Oh yeah, one of the real old timers. Great guy, you know, give you the shirt off his back. As a matter of fact, the waiting room at the Spanish American Committee is named after him. And there's a- If you look at RTA, he is one of the people that's featured on an RTA bus. Audea Rivera. Remember Audea?

Alicia Alvarado [00:14:48] Oh yes.

José Feliciano [00:14:49] She also ran. George Santana. Remember that?

Alicia Alvarado [00:14:53] Yeah.

José Feliciano [00:14:53] So we go back. So these were folks that weren't involved. Right. But as a result of that, I think felt a sense of opportunity they didn't feel before.

Dee Perry [00:15:04] And José, you were-

José Feliciano [00:15:08] I was a mere child back then. Good point by you, Dee.

Dee Perry [00:15:11] I was going to say you got a chance to work with Mayor Stokes, but I was thinking you had to have been very, very young.

José Feliciano [00:15:18] Well, I mean, I was 15 when he first ran and 17 when he was elected, but I was not involved in the campaign. But when I was first year of college, which would be '68, '69 than during his first term, the mayor did something really very significant. He started what I think is really the first public private partnership in the city. It was called Cleveland. Now it ended up being. There were parts of it that didn't work out so well, but the concept, the fundamental concept of getting the business community to put in funds and then leverage it with public funds. The mayor did that. And at our event, it was interesting. One of the men that worked with Carl during that campaign remembers that a significant player in Cleveland now was George Steinbrenner, who because he was from Lorain and he had a steel company down in Lorain, but he remembers what a great guy Steinbrenner was during that time. In any event, he put together a big pot of money to do largely economic development in the city. And to be sure, he included us. And one of the things that he funded was a summer jobs program. And I headed up one for the Hispanic community, trying to find students jobs. And it was really exciting. And through that. So I didn't work directly for him, but I worked for a program that he funded, the purpose of which was to find young Hispanics jobs. And it was a big deal to the mayor.

Dee Perry [00:16:59] And I'm wondering, even though you didn't work directly with him, if you could see what his leadership story?

José Feliciano [00:17:09] Oh, sure.

Alicia Alvarado [00:17:10] Let me tell you.

José Feliciano [00:17:12] I remember and I told this story about myself the other day where here I was, I had a little staff. I'm a first year high college student. And so I think I'm doing a pretty good job finding students. Right. And so the mayor was going around from place to place, visiting the places where he had funded and just seeing how they were doing. And it was exciting. Wherever Carl went, it was excitement.

Alicia Alvarado [00:17:36] He had such charisma.

José Feliciano [00:17:38] He caused a stir everywhere. I mean sister, he was the most handsome man she ever saw.

Alicia Alvarado [00:17:43] I did too.

Christine Hickey [00:17:44] True.

José Feliciano [00:17:44] But he was just so- He was energetic. He was one of these guys that really had charisma. He walked into a room, everybody looked at him. Whether you were a female or a male, you looked at Carl Stokes. I mean, he was just so dynamic. And so he was coming to my program to look, see how he was Doing? He got a little report, and I gave it to the mayor. And I. My shoulders, I puff up my chest a little. Cause I was doing a pretty good job, right? Mayor looks at the report and he says, is that all you've done? So, you know, he was always challenging, always pushing, you know, can you make it better? And firstly, he shows up, you know, to a near west side. I'm a kid over there, right? And he shows up to that program to underscore the importance of this, too. And at the same time, he substantially looked at and challenged me, said, I want you to do better. I said, you? Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor.

Dee Perry [00:18:39] And did you?

José Feliciano [00:18:40] I did, I did, I did.

Alicia Alvarado [00:18:43] He had the grace. Oh, my gosh, he had the grace.

José Feliciano [00:18:46] You just don't know.

Alicia Alvarado [00:18:47] And the skills and the skills to be able to dynamic his leadership skills.

José Feliciano [00:18:52] This guy was just dynamic. Just dynamic.

Dee Perry [00:18:54] And Sister Alvarado, I'm wondering, once he was in office, did you find ways to work with, to continue to support him, do things in the community?

Alicia Alvarado [00:19:06] Oh, yes. That's how I got to be. I learned all this from Carl, actually. So then I went to get a Master's in Social Work, but in community development, because it was something that I got from Carl when I was doing volunteer work in his offices. I would go to the neighborhood, go from him to the neighborhoods, and just bring people in. And that was something that I learned from Carl.

José Feliciano [00:19:37] Sister, I think, probably is the premier grassroots leader in the history of the Hispanic community. No one has done more grassroots work than Sister Alicia, and she's revered. We had this event a couple of weeks ago, had all these people there. Every single one of them just wanted to come up and embrace her, to express their affection and to recognize the incredible work that she's done. So it starts back then. Boy, you learned.

Alicia Alvarado [00:20:09] It starts back then. Otherwise I wouldn't really. It started back then because there was a little stir or. What's the word? He was on fire. You know, he was on fire. And I like that. I like that in that guy who would be mayor, the first Black mayor in the history of the Cleveland city of Cleveland. So, you know, that was something that I'll always remember, even though I had my aneurysm, but I'll always remember that it's something that was special, really special.

Dee Perry [00:20:49] What were some of the things that you saw, both of you around you, that needed to be addressed, that needed the mayor's attention, and things that you saw were on his list of things to do?

José Feliciano [00:21:04] Miraco Andres Castro Castro. You tell about that. Castro getting a job. Andres Castro.

Alicia Alvarado [00:21:11] Oh, Andres. But I don't remember.

José Feliciano [00:21:13] Well, Andy Castro was involved in the campaign and terrific guy, 82 years old now. And so he was involved in the campaign and he organized folks at the Spanish American Committee, the oldest Hispanic organization. And as a result of that, made a commitment that he was going to bring his in the City Hall. And he did. And among the things that he tried to do was to bring Hispanics into the police department. And police reform is always difficult. Even today it's difficult. Back then it was even more difficult. But the mayor was committed to getting Hispanic police officers. And he actually sent Andy to Puerto Rico.

Alicia Alvarado [00:22:01] That's right.

José Feliciano [00:22:01] Remember, to get the test, get the feel for it. Yeah, to get the test so that it would be culturally biased and get Hispanics in the police department. In addition to that, Andy was sort of the point man in terms of getting Hispanics into City Hall. And he, although he can't remember specifically, when I talked with him, he explained that whenever he would take someone up to City Hall, they were always given an opportunity and a shot of getting involved in it. So the mayor, I think, really worked hard at keeping his commitment to diversifying City Hall. And he had a particular interest in the police department.

Dee Perry [00:22:48] When the Glenville shootout happened in 1968, Carl Stokes had been in office for less than a year. What effect did those days of violence have on his ability to get things done and especially with the police reform?

José Feliciano [00:23:11] Well, I thought it made it harder from my point of view. On the one hand, And this was not sui generis to Cleveland. This was happening all over America. I mean, this, you know, the racial tension in America in 1968 was maybe as bad as I can recall it, certainly in my memory and maybe in history, certainly in the city, but it was bad. And so I think that it helped Carl do some things in that the business community then helped fund the Cleveland now as a result of that. So there was funds going in for economic development, which was positive. At the same time, I think it led to considerable tensions with the city Council, because at that time, Jim Stanton was president of the City Council. And the mayor then wanted to open up City Hall more to non traditional folks, particularly minorities. And the traditional forces didn't want that. So if you go back and read those accounts, the mayor and the City Council were really buttonheads on a variety of issues, not the least of which was the police department, because the mayor wanted to do significant police reform. And that's at a time when you didn't have cameras, so that it ended up being, you know, who shot John A versus B. And so this was a significant problem. And so I think that those riots hurt his effort to do police reform.

Alicia Alvarado [00:24:53] But I believe it was a test. I think it was a test in terms of for us to find out his leadership skills. I really do. It's one.

Dee Perry [00:25:04] And what did you get from it? I mean, what did you see? What did you see him? How did you see him react as a leader?

José Feliciano [00:25:13] Carl Stokes was tough as nails. He did not back down from anybody. And so when these challenges came up,he took them on.

Alicia Alvarado [00:25:20] He could have bobbed heads with other people, but he took on the challenges and made it his responsibility.

Dee Perry [00:25:34] What were- So we're into moving on his second term, '69 to '71. Where were you in life at that point, Sister Alvarada?

Alicia Alvarado [00:25:48] Where was high in life? I started with Tri-C. I graduated from high school in '68, and so I started going to Tri-C, "Where Futures Begin." It really did help me. I mean, I didn't know where I was going, but, you know, Tri-C helped me. And then I transferred to Cleveland State, where I graduated with a degree in Spanish secondary education. But that's where I started. So I was involved with the college. Now I was in college. So that was really amazing because then it was other students that I was talking to and that we were gathering to talk about, you know, so it was an amazing time for me and for all those that, you know, I contacted. In terms of Carl.

Dee Perry [00:26:44] And were you still doing community? I mean, volunteer work in the community at the same time that you were a student?

Alicia Alvarado [00:26:54] Oh, yes, yes. That was all a part of me. I could never get it out. It's like, in your blood, you know, for me, it was in my blood.

José Feliciano [00:27:02] That's who Alicia is.

Alicia Alvarado [00:27:05] I couldn't stay away from it. And so, you know, that's who I am. That's right.

José Feliciano [00:27:10] That's who you are. Always involved.

Dee Perry [00:27:13] What kinds of things. I mean, what kind of kinds of things were you doing in the community back then?

José Feliciano [00:27:18] Remember Puerto Rico Club? PR 76?

Alicia Alvarado [00:27:21] Oh, PR 76.

José Feliciano [00:27:22] Yes. So go ahead. That was a group. PR means Puerto Rico. 76 for 76 cities in Puerto Rico. And this was the youth group back at Spanishburg.

Alicia Alvarado [00:27:33] Yeah, Spanish American.

José Feliciano [00:27:34] Yeah, Spanish American community.

Alicia Alvarado [00:27:36] Oh, okay.

José Feliciano [00:27:37] Well, you were involved in it. I remember.

Alicia Alvarado [00:27:38] I don't. But I was involved in a lot of-

José Feliciano [00:27:44] Well, there's always, you know, job stuff.

Alicia Alvarado [00:27:46] Yeah, yeah, that's right. It was always about jobs, but we were Able to manage that. Look at where we are today. You and I, we were able to go through all that. But, you know, there are people, there are always role models for you. And we, you know, we were. We were role models. We try to be role models for those that came after us. Right?

José Feliciano [00:28:12] Yes.

Alicia Alvarado [00:28:14] So we became. You went to do your thing, and I went to do my thing. But it was always about those who came after us. And we formed these groups. Well, one of the groups was at San Juan Bautista. We started a youth group there. We got involved with that parish, which is now Sagrada Familia, but it started as San Juan Bautista. It was the first Hispanic church in the city of Cleveland. You know, back then, we had to fight even within the Catholic Church, we had to really fight to be who. For the people to know who we were.

José Feliciano [00:28:58] And so, Sister, we're going to have to tell the new bishop that story.

Alicia Alvarado [00:29:02] Oh, yes. So those young people, that youth group got involved, and I got them all involved. We went to different places. I took them to different places out of the state to do retreats, to do gatherings of people. So, you know, it was an exciting time, but I got those youth groups always involved with what I was doing.

José Feliciano [00:29:34] You were a Pied Piper,

Alicia Alvarado [00:29:38] I guess.

Dee Perry [00:29:40] During that time, in the second term of Carl Stokes, was he? Did you still feel that he was on task to do the things that he was trying to do? I mean, was he still being connected to the Hispanic community? Was he still pushing for progress or reform? Was he?

José Feliciano [00:30:09] I think that he was. And I think he felt like he was butting his head against the wall. Every time he turned around to do something, there seemed to be resistance, particularly from the city council. I mean, that's just my sense of memory of that, that there seemed to be constant frustrations. His agenda never changed.

Alicia Alvarado [00:30:26] Yes, it always remained the same. And that's because he was all about truth. It was all about sincerity. And, you know, I always felt secure wherever I was going, whatever I was doing with Carl. I mean, you know, my mom was not politically violent. They always gave me support for what I was doing. So that's when I went out and about. But I believe that he, like José says he was always butting heads, but I believe he always remained the same. And that was one thing that I liked about Carl and my family did as well.

Dee Perry [00:31:09] So then did it surprise you when he. He said in 1971, that's enough. I'm not going to run for another term. Were you surprised, José?

José Feliciano [00:31:18] I was shocked. I couldn't believe it. I was disappointed too.

Alicia Alvarado [00:31:23] Yeah. Yeah. Because we had a lot of hope in him.

José Feliciano [00:31:26] Yeah. So it was just shocking. It seemed as though it came out of the blue. It was like a bolt of lightning. It was disappointing because there had been some progress and Carl was the top dog and we liked that and we wanted him to continue.

Alicia Alvarado [00:31:42] I thought that he would be there forever, you know. Yeah.

Dee Perry [00:31:54] So after he left office and left Cleveland, did you see any president progress continue or- Well, I guess I should just ask an open ended question. What was the atmosphere in the city like once a new mayor came in?

José Feliciano [00:32:16] I thought there was disappointment, you know, and that happens with change in power. Change and so change. And so then I think there wasn't the sense that you could either go to city hall to tell. Find a job or go to city hall to, you know, get a service or whatever it was. It just changed the dynamics of the.

Alicia Alvarado [00:32:36] It was like going back to square one or how do you- Going back to the beginning. And yeah, that was very sad for me. It was a very sad time. We didn't know what was going to come. I had a. And we can't predict, we couldn't predict our future, but we had a lot of hope.

Dee Perry [00:33:00] But you both continued on your personal paths?

Alicia Alvarado [00:33:04] Oh, yes.

Dee Perry [00:33:06] To make things better.

Alicia Alvarado [00:33:08] Oh, yes. Well, I think that's part of who we are.

José Feliciano [00:33:12] That's the proverbially overused word. It's a part of your DNA once it gets in there.

Dee Perry [00:33:18] So how did that pass unfold for you, José, after 1971, which direction did you go?

Alicia Alvarado [00:33:26] Well.

José Feliciano [00:33:29] I'm a retired lawyer now, but I always wanted to be a social worker, quite frankly, so that when the Spanish American Committee gave me my first taste of community work and then never left me. And so from trying to find people jobs, then the other services were where you try to find somebody a house, you try to find someone benefits. And it was just a great experience and it was energizing. And what I found during one of the summer jobs was that I always seemed to be bumping into some regulation where someone say, you can't do this or you can't do that. It was stupid. I mean, I looked at it and said, I just, I don't understand why you can't do that. And so that's what led me to go to law school because I saw these barriers there that struck me as counterintuitive. And so with a social worker's heart, I went to law school and then started working with the Legal Aid Society.

Alicia Alvarado [00:34:22] That's a great match.

José Feliciano [00:34:24] Yeah. So I was with the society for four years and basically worked with the poor, which is what I wanted to do. And then I tried a lawsuit and really liked it, became a public defense and did criminal defense work for a number of years. And then George Voinovich became mayor 1979, and I was in his first administration and I served Mayor Voinovich for four years and then worked in government for a year, then went to the private practice. And people are surprised because I ended up retiring from a firm called Baker Hosteter, which is an old line Cleveland firm. It's over 100 years old. Mr. Baker was a two-term mayor of Cleveland and was Secretary of War for Woodrow Wilson. So he prosecuted World War I. So you look at this memorabilia that we have at our firm. You have letters from President Wilson, you have letters from Blackjack Pershing. Pershing. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. And so Mr. Mr. Baker, who's a very distinguished public official. So I went there and people said, well, you know, why did you do that? Look at your background. Doesn't quite fit. And I said, well, ages 1, 3 and 5, those are the three main reasons. It's a great firm. I had a great, great career. They were very, they encouraged and supported my community service, basically. And I was very involved in community and bar association work. And it was a great man for me.

Dee Perry [00:35:59] And Sister Alvarado, José was mentioning you were on the road with César Chavez.

Alicia Alvarado [00:36:06] Oh, yes.

Dee Perry [00:36:06] When did that happen?

Alicia Alvarado [00:36:08] I don't know what year that was.

José Feliciano [00:36:10] Early 70s. No.

Alicia Alvarado [00:36:11] Yeah, I would think so because I was still in college.

José Feliciano [00:36:14] Yeah, yeah. She was out there on the picket lines and I remember the lettuce boycott. I remember you. Grapes and lettuce and grapes. She was involved in all that stuff.

Alicia Alvarado [00:36:25] Yeah, yeah. And then when Cesar Chavez. The Catholic Commission on Community Action, Cleveland's Hispanic Community, Catholic Commission and Community Action, they brought in Cesar Chavez. And then I became that traveler. I traveled throughout the whole state of Ohio where there were all the migrants and farm workers, you know, tomatoes and what was that? Toledo, Around Toledo area. Well, the whole state. So it was so much fun because I got to be his bodyguard. Oh my God. I was traveling, taking him, driving him all around the state, but he had no bodyguard. So I was his bodyguard at the same time. It was so much fun and that was a very precious time for me. Yeah.

José Feliciano [00:37:18] She says Cesar Chavez was a very devout Catholic and religious man. His faith was.

Alicia Alvarado [00:37:24] Oh yeah, it was amazing strong. So that helped me a lot. And it Kind of took me on, because when Carl wasn't going to. I didn't have that role model then, you know, Cesar became that role model for me. Yeah.

Dee Perry [00:37:42] And I'm wondering, because Louis Stokes was rising at that time, too, and I'm wondering if you had any? If you crossed paths with him or had any interaction with him as your lives went on?

José Feliciano [00:38:01] Yes. Great guys, fabulous guys. And, you know, interestingly, stylistically, very different people. Lou was very much more a lawyer. Carl was a lawyer, too, but Lou was a practicing lawyer and was trying cases to juries. And Lou argued cases in the United States Supreme Court. You know, Terry versus Ohio is Lou Stokes case. And so he was a very distinguished attorney, and he had more. Restraint is not the exact word, because I don't want it to sound negative, but he was a very powerful man, but a very understated man and terrific human being. And so I'll give you a little example of. There's the community benefits agreement was. Frank Jackson championed that about three years ago, and Lou Stokes made sure that the Hispanic community was involved in it. And I was the person that was selected. We negotiated that out. The whole purpose of a community benefits agreement is that if there is a construction of any kind in the city, whether it's governmental or otherwise, then the expectation is that you're going to use city workers, you're going to use city contractors, and it encourages and publicizes that. So I worked with Lou during that time. Lou's tough as nails, too, let me just tell you that. I mean, when you, you know, he's now deceased, but extraordinarily understated. But in terms of his thinking, in terms of the agenda, almost identical. There'd be, you know, I don't think you can make a distinction between the two of them. And the two of them, they did things like 21st Congressional Caucus. Now, that didn't exist anywhere in America, but Louis and Carl Stokes put that together, and that ended up being, I think, the model for the Black Congressional Caucus. And in Cleveland, one of the great traditions is that Labor Day parade. That was something that the Stokes brothers put together. And so. And of course, Louis is one of the most revered members of Congress in the history of the state and in the entirety of the country. I mean, the amount of money that Lou Stokes brought back to this country when he retired, that was a huge loss. I mean, you know, the va, the rapid transit, you know, all these funds that he brought back for the public. But that all comes from, you know, their background. These guys grew up in the Outhewaite projects.

Alicia Alvarado [00:40:30] Yeah.

José Feliciano [00:40:30] And that's their heart. And they wanted to reach out and help, you know, their peeps and our peeps. And both of them basically did that their whole career. You know, the mayor ended up becoming a judge. He came back. He was one of the few men in the history of America that has. It's a trifecta. He was a legislator, all right. He was mayor, and he was a judge, all right. And also then at the end of his life, was serving as ambassadors to the Seychelles. And so, I mean, what an extraordinary career for anybody, let alone someone that was born. You know, he. He was reared in public housing. So Louis Stokes, you know, he became a judge. Congressman, just revered these two young. These two men growing up in poverty, and it was in their heart. And they led their lives, in my judgment, consistent with a commitment to their hearts.

Alicia Alvarado [00:41:28] And there were role models par excellence, you know, for us that helped us, all Hispanics, to know, to reach a dream. They reach those dreams. It's just like the dream. You know, we're talking about the dreamers, but, you know, they reach their dream of being with the people for the people. What's the other line? They reached their dream. And so that helped us in the Hispanic community a lot. I always saw Louis as a gentle soul. He was quiet, but gentle. But he was powerful. And he reached the highest form in terms of Congress to be a senator. That indicated to us, each one of us in the Hispanic community, that those dreams can be reached if you work hard for them.

José Feliciano [00:42:33] See, two parts. One of them is they always remember where they came from. Oh, yeah, both of those guys.

Alicia Alvarado [00:42:41] And that was.

José Feliciano [00:42:42] And the other thing is they reached out to us. They didn't have to do that, but they did. And I think they did that as a matter of commitment and heart. And so both of them, I think, certainly have my admiration and I think the respect of many, if not all, in our community.

Dee Perry [00:42:59] So you've been talking about some of the things that each one of them did, but I want to get each of you to sort of give me the short version of what do you think the legacy, first of Carl Stokes is, and then of Louis Stokes, Sister Alvarado? 

Christine Hickey [00:43:24] The legacy of Carl Stokes, if I could add a little bit, is there a legacy that you feel is more for the Hispanic community? You know, from your perspective, what do you think the legacy of those Stokes?

José Feliciano [00:43:42] Well, I think it's. It's the one of inclus.

Alicia Alvarado [00:43:45] I mean, yes, that's a good word.

José Feliciano [00:43:48] The perfect example is when the Mayor brought Andy into City Hall. There are Hispanic employees. I know at least one Hispanic supervisor and all that doesn't sound like a lot, but it was. They never had it before. And that there was a sense and hope that you can go to City hall and get services and a job. And then with Carl, I mean, he was just so charismatic. I mean, part of this was, even though this is hard to, you know, put your finger on in terms of his achievement, but the sense of hope, the dramatic sense of hope that Carl Stokes created, I think, to be sure, the African American community, but in our community, too, like, this could get done. I mean, you know, you could do something. I mean, you could get elected to public office. This was doable, and that's a very significant thing. Plus, he did it. And the way that he did it. I mean, there are. Sometimes people get there and they forget where they came from. Carl Stokes never did that. He never did that. And Lou Stokes, on the other hand, his legacy, in terms of, quite frankly, all the money that he brought back to Cuyahoga county, that just helped everybody, whether it was the VA or RTA, just extraordinary. So that in some respects, upon reflection, they sort of complement one another. And that is that, you know, that Carl opened the door. He created all this opportunity, and then Lewis then delivered on this stuff. You know, he went in and got a lot of these things actually accomplished and built. And so. And I never thought about that before, but not to diminish that, the mayor didn't actually do other things as well, because he did. But that would be overstatements from my point of view.

Alicia Alvarado [00:45:41] But one thing is their love of the city of Cleveland, their love of the city and then the love of their country, and they both follow the American dream. And that's. That's a key. That's a key that we think we can reach if we follow that dream. So that's what I always remember in terms of the legacy that they left us.

José Feliciano [00:46:08] It's really an American legacy.

Alicia Alvarado [00:46:10] American legacy. That's right. An American legacy. That's awesome and beautiful and wonderful.

Dee Perry [00:46:21] I'm wondering what your advice would be to today's young people who want to make a difference, but may not know how to go about it. Sister Alvarado,

José Feliciano [00:46:37] you were talking about the dream here, Sister.

Alicia Alvarado [00:46:38] Yeah, well, they broke. I know that they broke the racial divide at that time. They broke the racial divine, and that was powerful. The young people. Yes, well, we all the. All the. I don't know.

José Feliciano [00:46:55] Well, I thought it was the thinking more than anything. More And a sense of hope and

Christine Hickey [00:47:00] how

José Feliciano [00:47:02] it all begins with the boldness of thought. I mean, Carl stokes was a bold person. I mean, here Cleveland was the seventh largest city or maybe the eighth largest city in America. At the time he ran, there was 800,000 people here. That's a lot of people. You just don't wake up. And then only a third were African Americans. All right, so this is two-thirds of the people you might think would be a challenge. But mayor Stokes thought, you know, I'm going to do it. There were people that counseled against him. There were African Americans that counseled against him who thought that it was too soon, it was too early. And notwithstanding that, he did it and he ran and he got it done. And so from my point of view, it's the hope that he created and it's the way of thinking, because it's the boldness that I remember. I remember having a conversation, lunching with mayor Stokes. It was at the old Hollenden House. And this is when he came back and was judge and we had a conversation. And this is the way that the mayor thought. He said, I can't remember the issue, but I remember what he wanted. He said, I want a front page paper. I want a front page article on that in the Plain Dealer, above the fold. That's what he said to me. And I thought, that's interesting, the way this guy thinks, and that's the way that Carl stokes thought. And so in terms of a young person today, I mean, to have them have those kind of bold visions and have, you know, these two men as role models and what they. So you talk with Frank Jackson, Jeff Johnson, Zach Reed, any prominent African American leader. Mike White. Mike White. Every single one of them said that Carl stokes was an inspiration to them. Every single one of them. And I think that's true in our community, too. And the judge said he was elected, Carl. And I think that that's true with regard to our own community. We're people of color. And so, one, the role model aspect of it. Two, the way they led their lives on the issues, the way they picked the issues, and they reached out. They reached out.

Alicia Alvarado [00:49:22] So I would say to the young people, look at the role models. Look at the role models that have made a difference, and that's very important. It's a pretty multicultural group. Multicolor. It's a pretty multicolor group. If you look at our role models. And that's what we need to always do. A group of folks, some are simple, some are smart, some more compassionate than Others, some full of extraordinary wisdom, but all have made a difference. And that's the key. All have made a difference. And that's a gift. That's a gift to be able to make a difference in somebody else's life.

Dee Perry [00:50:09] That's great. I think I have asked all the questions that are on my list, but I'm wondering if there's anything that's in the back of your mind that you want to say about Carl Stokes, about Louis Stokes, about just the impact that they had on you or a story that you remember from some time in your life where knowing about them made a difference.

José Feliciano [00:50:44] I think I pretty much covered what I.

Alicia Alvarado [00:50:53] It was one thing is that when I was going out and about in the community, I felt secure. Security for me was important because I was young. My mom was worried that something would happen to me, but I felt the security. And that's one of the things that. And fear. My mother used to say, "Mira, Alicia, el miedo no es de Dios"—"Look, Alicia, the fear is not of God." And that was one of the things that I saw in Carl. He was fearless. And that was the- That became my role model. "Fear is not of God." And Carl and Louis didn't have fear. They, even though, you know, so I don't have. Within my heart, I have that strength. "Fear is not of God." And they were the role models of that for me.

José Feliciano [00:52:01] I just think it's that sense of hope that was created. And that sounds almost mushy, but it is so tangible. It is so real. 

Dee Perry [00:52:14] It's so real more than ever today, I think hope.

Alicia Alvarado [00:52:17] We need that a lot in today's world. Hope. And we have that legacy. We have that legacy from Carl and Louis that's important.

Dee Perry [00:52:32] Anything for you, Christine?

Christine Hickey [00:52:34] I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think-

Alicia Alvarado [00:52:35] [inaudible] and be right.

Christine Hickey [00:52:38] I was just debating on seeing if I could get something from each of you. You guys are saying that it gave your community hope and it was the jobs hope that your community have for jobs.

José Feliciano [00:53:03] Well, I mean, this is. Maybe this is self evident, but the question of dreaming that you have this dream and that you have big dreams. I mean, these are two men that had extraordinary dreams for themselves and for their community. And one thing that I really try to encourage our folks to have is to have big dreams. I don't think our dreams are big enough. I don't think our dreams are transformational enough. I don't think our dreams are challenging enough. And if you look at the challenges that these two men had, 1965. When Carl Stokes ran for mayor the first time. I mean, just. I would take a page from President Obama's book, the Audacity. I mean, people were thinking, that's a good word. Yeah, how audacious of this person to do that. But it was just, you know, Carl Stokes had big dreams. Lou Stokes had big dreams. We need to have big dreams. I think we need to have bigger dreams. That's good.

Christine Hickey [00:54:11] So if we could. I know you've already said it, but if we could just get one last recap on José, what you feel the Stokes brothers did for the Hispanic community.

José Feliciano [00:54:27] Well, you know, from my perspective, the first part is that it gave a sense of belonging to the Hispanic community that it didn't have before. And I think that in many respects, it was intense and it was personal, and I think it was affectionate, and people could clearly sense it. Now, I have a sense of belonging today, but I don't have a sense of belonging as I did back in the late 60s. And that, I think, is a very significant thing. And as a result of feeling, belonging to sense of belonging. I mean, you get confidence from that. You do things more, you think things more. And I think that's a very significant thing.

Christine Hickey [00:55:11] Did the Stokes brothers inspire you as a youth?

José Feliciano [00:55:15] Absolutely.

Christine Hickey [00:55:17] What do you think about that? Tell us about your?

José Feliciano [00:55:19] Well, I mean, of course they did. I mean, here you have this charismatic, dynamic leader who is saying many of the things that you think, right. And actually doing it. And you're saying he did that. But one of the things that I'm a big admirer of, especially the older I get, is Carl Stokes was a man of enormous courage. He had physical courage. He was an ex boxer. And, you know, during those riots, Carl Stokes walked the streets. And. And just anybody would do that. But he was so committed to his community, and he wanted to make this enormous contribution. And I think that was significant in getting that problem under control. And he had enormous physical, enormous political courage. Carl Stokes did hard things. I mean, he challenged the Cleveland Police Department, all right, at a time when it was hard to do that. And he wanted the city hall open for minorities. I mean, he wanted Spanish speaking police officers. These are not the bread and butter issues, let me tell you that. So it was the. I have great admiration for him for his political courage and for not having fear to invest it, as well as his physical courage.

Alicia Alvarado [00:56:37] Diddle to that. I mean, how can I say otherwise? I mean, those were great. His courage, his wisdom beyond mere measure, and the sense of giving security to the people. That really needed it. So he gave us that. He gave us what else?

José Feliciano [00:57:04] You know, one thing that Andy Castro said the other day was, this is really interesting because even though he had all these characteristics, he said this was someone that was involved in his campaign back in 67 and as forceful and as powerful a personality as he was. The thing that Andy Castro remembers the most, and he worked with him throughout his campaign, was Carl Stokes humility. He said. Remember when he said that? He said that he was an extraordinarily humble man, and you wouldn't ordinarily associate, not necessarily associate, you know, this dynamic person with extraordinary humility. But this is someone that worked with him on the campaign day in, day out, and talked about this man's humility, which is really. That's quite admirable.

Alicia Alvarado [00:58:02] It was passed on. It really was passed on to us. So it's something that we learned, have learned from the Stokes brothers.

Christine Hickey [00:58:16] One thing I know, I don't know, and it doesn't really have to do with the Stokes brothers, but. Sister, could you give us. Give us a little bit of your life timeline? We got that from José, but I want to talk a little bit more about, you know, you. You went to. We talked about. You went to CSU and you studied high school. Second language. Second language, correct.

Alicia Alvarado [00:58:38] Yeah.

Christine Hickey [00:58:38] What did you do after that? You talked to me a little bit about it personally. But, you know, tell me about what happened throughout your life.

Alicia Alvarado [00:58:45] Well, after. After graduating from Cleveland State with a major in Spanish secondary education, I couldn't find a job to be a high school teacher, so I had to go to Lorraine.

José Feliciano [00:59:00] Really?

Alicia Alvarado [00:59:01] Yeah, I went to Lorraine. I got a job teaching. It wasn't secondary. It was elementary school, third grade, and I thought third grade, but I got a job. So I went there and. And I had to learn from the students myself because I didn't know how to do elementary. I mean, I knew how to do secondary, but so I learned from the kids, and we learned a lot together. I told you, Christine, that I was in. I had the worst kid in the school, and I learned to be able to get him to come around, that by the end of the school year, he was the best student in the school. And those were. Well, that's because I learned a lot, not only from my parents, but from the role models that I had in my lifetime. But then I knew that that wasn't for me teaching third grade, that I need to go. So I went and got my master's at Case Western Reserve, and I got a degree in let's see, it was social work, it was community development, because that was my key. So I got a degree, a master's in community development. That's where. After that, then I started doing all kinds of good things in the community. And social work. Community development and social work. And those were all very good for me the rest of my lifetime. And in getting involved in peace and justice. Social justice. Peace and social justice, those were key for me. And now that I'm a Dominican Sister of Peace, it even means it's more for me to work for peace and justice.

José Feliciano [01:00:54] You also work for the Diocese of Cleveland?

Alicia Alvarado [01:00:57] Yes.

José Feliciano [01:00:57] So remember that. What did you do there?

Alicia Alvarado [01:01:02] I directed the Spanish Office, Hispanic Ministry Office. I did that. That's when I got involved with doing all kinds of stuff. And we would do faith and culture. Fey y Cultura is bringing people together throughout the whole diocese. And in my first time, Gosh. Well, no, that's a convention. The convention. I did it mostly myself because the first Hispanic convention of the city of Cleveland, which this guy is very instrumental in doing, I was able- I mostly did it myself. I got over a thousand people to that first- 2,000 people to that first convention. All because of my skill, skills in community development. And that's all so much a part of my life and heart. So.

José Feliciano [01:01:58] Yes, and also the Spanish American Committee.

Alicia Alvarado [01:02:00] Oh, yeah, we were on the board together with the Spanish American.

José Feliciano [01:02:04] But you also worked there, remember that?

Alicia Alvarado [01:02:06] No.

José Feliciano [01:02:07] Weren't you- I thought you worked with Vidya at Spanish American.

Alicia Alvarado [01:02:10] I did. I guess I did, now that I mentioned it, but there's so much stuff, you know, I. I have quite a few. A history, but so do you about it. We love the Hispanic. We love Cleveland. I love Cleveland. I'm never going to leave Cleveland. I grew up in Cleveland and we loved being with people. And you could we continue. Although I can't reach you, but we continue to do the Hispanic convention. What number is it now?

José Feliciano [01:02:41] At our convention, we can convene the whole Hispanic community, invite them all. We just did it again. 3,000 people.

Alicia Alvarado [01:02:46] Yeah, see? So we continue.

José Feliciano [01:02:49] So, Sister, also, you were the chief of staff basically for Joe Santiago. He was a councilman 10 or 12

Alicia Alvarado [01:03:01] years ago, the first Hispanic councilman of the city of Cleveland. And I helped him to be elected. I ran campaign, but he asked me when he got. When he won the election. He asked me, sister, I need somebody I can trust. And so he asked me to be his administrative assistant. So I worked with him part time. At that time I was on leadership of the Dominican Sisters of Peace. I was on the leadership. I had a big responsibility. I travel all over the. The state because I needed our country too. Because I needed to know the state, because the sisters, I needed to be work with them. And so I did that. And then I was going back and forth from Cleveland to Akron, Cleveland to Akron. But I love that I was able to be a part of his election and also to be a part of the whole thing. Now I worked his office and I got a lot of people. That's how I met a lot of people in getting to know Joe.

José Feliciano [01:04:16] So. Yes, but also she served the board of directors of her order. I mean, the whole.

Alicia Alvarado [01:04:21] Yes, the five member team.

José Feliciano [01:04:23] Yeah. So there were five people that directed her order. She was one of the. So it's like being in the national board of directors of her order.

Alicia Alvarado [01:04:31] Yeah, yeah. And so. And then Joe didn't win the last election. But, you know, one thing I remember about that, being in that office after something happened that the. The Plain Dealer was giving him a bad rep.

José Feliciano [01:04:50] You and I went down there to talk to him about.

Alicia Alvarado [01:04:52] Yeah. And then I wrote a letter to the PD and I said, I'm a preacher of truth because we stand for truth. That's what Dominican Order is. Truth. Preaching the truth to be able to reach other others. So I wrote that letter. And when that letter wasn't published the way I wrote it, I said, I'm telling you the truth. This is the truth. And they didn't write it the way I wrote it. And that's when I came home that morning. I read the paper. It was not the thing I had wanted. And that's when I went home and I wasn't feeling good. I was so stressed out about this whole thing. And that's when I went home. And the sister says, you're not your bubbly self. What's going on? And that's when everything fell apart for me. I mean, I was drinking a cup of tea and my head fell to the table, and then I fell to the floor. But the sisters already knew something was wrong, so they called 911 and the rest is history.

José Feliciano [01:06:07] Well, the grassroots community organizing, I mentioned before that we have this community convention. And the whole idea behind it is that we as a community gather and we invite every Hispanic organization, not every other one, every single one, and ask them, what's your top agenda item? And then how can we help get accomplished? And that from the first one until the last one, Alicia was involved in organizing it. When we did the first one in 1884, we didn't know if we. If we were going to get 10 people there. As it turned out, she got 2,000 people there. So you set the standard. And involved in all the other ones since that time.

Alicia Alvarado [01:06:50] But I'm still. Even though this is a personal story, but even though May 21, 2008, I suffer from that injury, traumatic brain injury and aneurysm, even after that, I'm still- I've had a comeback and it's still part of me. It's still part of me to be involved and to work for justice and all human rights people. So I'm still there. I'm still here.

José Feliciano [01:07:26] Yeah. At this event, Sister. We gave Sister. The Hispanic Roundtable's lifetime Servant Leadership Award.

Alicia Alvarado [01:07:36] The Spanish American Committee.

José Feliciano [01:07:38] At the Spanish American Committee. Yeah.

Alicia Alvarado [01:07:41] Yeah. And I was, like, shocked. You surprised me. I didn't know. I know that I was going just for Stokes, you know, to talk about Stokes, and, you know, that's. Well, I didn't know that I could have had my. The sister said we could have been there to support you, but we didn't know. So anyways. But you surprised me by giving me that award. I mean, the people so Lifetime award. I was like, oh, I cried. I think I cried when I was trying to receive. 

Christine Hickey [01:08:21] Yes. I think I. I think we have everything that we need. Unless there was something else that.

Alicia Alvarado [01:08:24] Thank you.

Dee Perry [01:08:27] That was excellent. Thank you.

Alicia Alvarado [01:08:28] Thank you so much.

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