Abstract
Matthew Zone is a native Clevelander. He is the Cleveland City Councilman representing the same Detroit-Shoreway ward as his late parents Councilman Michael Zone and Councilwoman Mary Zone on Cleveland’s west side. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.
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Interviewee
Zone, Matt (interviewee)
Interviewer
Hickey, Christine (interviewer)
Project
Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future
Date
8-2-2017
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
25 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Matt Zone interview, 02 August 2017" (2017). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 501013.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1210
Transcript
Christine Hickey [00:00:03] My name is Christine Hickey, and we are interviewing Councilman Matt Zone for the Stokes Oral History Exhibit. And Councilman Zone, could you say and spell your name for me and give me your titles?
Matt Zone [00:00:18] So my name is Matt Zone. I'm a council member for the city of Cleveland. I've been serving on Cleveland City Council for a little over 15 years. I also serve as the national president for the National League of Cities. NLC is an organization that represents mayors and council members in the United States. There are approximately 120,000 mayors and council members, about 19,000 cities, towns and villages in the United States. And I get to lead this amazing organization.
Christine Hickey [00:00:47] Great. So I believe your family was friends with the Stokes? So your families go way back. Can you tell me about the relationship between your families?
Matt Zone [00:01:01] Well, you know, the Stokes and Zone family practically grew up together on different sides of towns, but we had a strong familial bond with one another. My father served on Cleveland City Council from 1960 until 1974. So by the time Carl Stokes decided to. To run for office, my father had attained a certain level of success in his community. And at that time, the city council was about one-third African American, two-thirds Caucasian. And when Carl decided to run for mayor, my father was the only white council member in the city of Cleveland who openly endorsed his candidacy and worked on his behalf.
Christine Hickey [00:01:43] Excellent. That's a great story. I've heard that from someone else, but it's good to have you say that. So what are your personal recollections of Carl and or Lou Stokes? If you want to talk about each of them individually.
Matt Zone [00:01:55] You know, I have fond memories of both the honorable Carl Stokes and the honorable Louis Stokes, two stately gentlemen, both different relations with one another. But what I always loved and remembered about Carl was just his gentle touch. As a young boy growing up, I was in his presence a lot. I got to grow up with his family. His son Cordell and I are friends to this day. We often reminisce about the days growing up at the feet of two Cleveland legends. You know, him, his father and myself having a father, Mike Zone, and a mother, Mary Zone, who also later was a Cleveland city councilwoman. And Carl Stokes was such a unique individual because he could be in front of emperors and kings or just the guy at the corner pool hall, and he treated everyone the same, with respect, with dignity and class. And that's what I just most remember about him. Louis Stokes had this presence. He was a great orator. When he would give speeches, I mean, he would just wow you with his elegance and his brilliance and his understanding of the English vocabulary, was somebody as a young man growing up who aspired to give back to our community and someday aspired to be in public service. I just looked at Louis Stokes with such reverence, such an elegant, smart, dignified man who, when you say the name Carl or Louis Stokes, it doesn't matter. Where I travel in this country on behalf of the National League of Cities, the Stokes' name is well known.
Christine Hickey [00:03:32] Excellent.
Matt Zone [00:03:33] I have one more story about Carl Stokes. This is a great story. So I was a young college student attending Cleveland State, and I took an Ohio History course, and the professor was Dr. Tom Campbell. And he asked each one of us, he said, find somebody who served in government in Ohio History and write a paper on him. So I wanted to write my paper on Carl Stokes. So Carl Stokes was a judge in Cleveland Municipal Court at the time. I called him up and I said, Your Honor, I'd love to meet with you. I'm writing a paper about you. I just read your autobiography, and I would love to interview you. And he says, well, if you want to interview me, meet me at this pool hall on 79th and Carnegie. It was right across the street from Lancer's back, Lancer Steakhouse. And I remember going there. I was a young kid. I don't know, I was probably 20, 20 years old. And I pulled in the parking lot, and I come walking in a pool hall with my little flip pad or notepad to take some notes. And I remember walking in and everyone looked at me. And all of a sudden I saw him off in the corner and a big smile. And he says, young Zone, come on over here. And I walked in, and I was just like. I felt so relieved to be warmly welcomed by him and proceeded to shoot some pool with him and talk about his time as mayor of our city and just some of the stuff that he's done in his amazing life. And it was just a unique moment for me as a young person to get to spend time with him and something I treasure the rest of my life.
Christine Hickey [00:05:05] Okay. You know, you talk about Carl. I'm going to go off a little bit. It might be here, but I'm not sure. But were you inspired by Carl, or can you tell me about, you know?
Matt Zone [00:05:18] Yeah, you know, through my readings about Carl Stokes and why I was in college. You know, when you're a young college student, you're in school, you hunger to learn. You want to learn about people who paved the way for others. And he certainly was a trailblazer and Louis Stokes Trailblazer. Those two men have blazed the trail for so many amazing Cleveland leaders who are very successful today. But I remember reading about his love for the environment, his environmental stewardship, and what he did when he saw we had a river that was dead, a lake that was highly polluted. And if not for Carl Stokes going to Edgewater park, wading in the water, playing with the kids, talking about how we have to be good stewards to the environment, and then following that up, going to Washington to testify in front of Congress. The Clean Water Act in 1972 was created through Carl Stokes' advocacy. And because of Carl Stokes, we can thank him for. For the EPA. If not for his courage and his tenacity and the work of his brother, Louis Stokes, as a young congressperson, we would not have the EPA as we know it today. We would not have the Clean Water Act. And I think that's a wonderful legacy that they have given not only to Cleveland, but to our country and to future generations.
Christine Hickey [00:06:40] Can we pick up that last part?
Matt Zone [00:06:41] Sure.
Christine Hickey [00:06:42] If it not were- If it were not for the Stokes brothers, the EPA, and all that. Could you start there?
Matt Zone [00:06:50] Sure. If not for the Stokes brothers, we would not have the EPA today. We would not have the Clean Water Act. Carl Stokes' advocacy as a mayor, understanding why this was so important and relevant to cities across America, especially home here in Cleveland, and Louis Stokes as a young congressperson, articulating that message, lobbying his colleagues up on the Hill to. To make sure that the federal government instituted a program to protect us from environmental contaminations. If not for the Stokes brothers, we would not have the EPA today.
Christine Hickey [00:07:28] Excellent. You gave me an editing point. There was a stumble, so I wanted to fix it.
Matt Zone [00:07:32] Thank you.
Christine Hickey [00:07:32] Yeah, no problem. You may have already answered this, but is there a personal story regarding Carl, which you did, or Louis Stokes, Congressman Stokes, that you would like to share?
Matt Zone [00:07:47] You know, there's a story that it's sometimes painful to tell, but I think it's a story that those who are watching need to hear. Cleveland was a very different time in the mid-'60s, when Carl Stokes was running for mayor. My father had the courage as a local elected official to support this man. I was only four when he ran for mayor, but I know in speaking with my siblings, I'm second youngest of nine kids, we often talk a lot. But my mother and father said to Mrs. And Mrs. Stokes, you need to come over, have dinner, meet our family. And I remember my siblings telling me this story, how my father said, I'm supporting Carl Stokes over Seth Taft, he's a good man. He's the right man at the right time for our city. And that was the first time that some of my siblings actually met somebody of color. You know, Cleveland was a very segregated community. So the courage that Carl Stokes had to run, the courage that my father exhibited, to support him and embrace him and bring him into his house, really was a good learning moment for our family. And then following up, as my father worked on his behalf and campaigned, something pretty terrible happened. My family had just put aluminum siding on our house. That's what a lot of people did in the '60s. That was, like, kind of in vogue, the cool thing to do. And so they wrapped the house in aluminum siding, spent a lot of money, and somebody in the middle of the night wrote, you and lover on the side of the house. As a young boy, I didn't know what it meant, but I remember my mom very emotional, worked up over it. And it was somebody in our community sending a message to my parents that they did. And, you know, I am thankful today that we live in a society that racism still exists. And if you don't openly talk about it and call it out when you see it, and that's what Carl Stokes and Louis Stokes was able to do in not an aggressive way, in a very articulate way to communicate that. It's a story that I think about often and something that my family holds very dear to us, our relationships with the Stokes family.
Christine Hickey [00:10:03] Can you give me one sentence? Can you give me? It was where you spoke about, I think it was, I think you said your mom or your father wanted to invite Mr. and Mrs. Stokes over for dinner.
Matt Zone [00:10:16] Yeah.
Christine Hickey [00:10:16] Can you just give me that little line?
Matt Zone [00:10:18] Sure. So what, my parents- No, my father wanted to have Carl Stokes over our house. So my mom said, you need to invite Mrs. Stokes to come over to our house and have dinner so they can meet all of the kids. I'm second youngest of nine children. I was only four at the time, so I don't remember all the details of it, but it was a wonderful opportunity to break bread with a future American hero. Excellent.
Christine Hickey [00:10:59] So, obviously your parents influenced you, I'm guessing, in the decision to run for council. But did the legacy of Carl and Louis Stokes play a role in your decision to become a public servant?
Matt Zone [00:11:11] You know, as a young person growing up, I always was very civically minded. I was born and raised by two parents who served in city government, and I considered myself a student of Cleveland to understand its history, its culture, its people, its former leaders. And I Always read a lot about Carl and Louis Stokes. And when I decided to ultimately run for city council with the cajoling from my wife because I was going to a community meeting that I was complaining about, my wife said to me, well, you can either complain about it or you can do something about it. And I would think about what would Carl Stokes do when he saw that he had a polluted and dead river and a dying lake? He didn't complain about it. He went to work, he went to Washington, he advocated. I wanted to represent the community where I was born and raised in, and I wanted to make it better. And working with Louis Stokes as a young council person and watching how he engaged the people in such a respectful, dignified manner, you know, I could only aspire to have. Have his respect and credibility in our community. And those are two individuals who continue to inspire me today.
Christine Hickey [00:12:26] Excellent. Tell me about Louis Stokes and what you believe, how you believe, what made him successful as a congressman?
Matt Zone [00:12:43] You know, the late congressman Louis Stokes was such a fierce and articulate litigator. And I remember when one of my heroes that I read a lot about was Robert Kennedy and when Bobby Kennedy was killed and they had congressional hearings, I remember watching old footage and watching a young congressman, Louis Stokes, grill those before him. He was a very well prepared individual. He came to work every single day knowing the issues better than the people who were presenting the issues before him. And that preparation, that work needs to go in if you want to be a good public service. You know, being a politician, a public servant, it's an honorable position and we need honorable people doing that. You're not going to find more people with higher integrity and greater integrity than a Louis and Carl Stokes.
Christine Hickey [00:13:47] Excellent. So we were talking about highlighting the importance of being a public servant. And as someone who's served as a councilman, can you speak to this? Why is it important for our youth to participate?
Matt Zone [00:14:13] Yeah, you know, elected leaders, we have a moral, but also an ethical responsibility and obligation to train that next generation of leaders. And one of the things that I thought Carl and Louis Stokes did really well is surrounding them with young, smart people who one day would grow up into leadership. All you need to do is look at the very successful careers of people who they surrounded themselves on. Arnold Pinckney, late Judge Mabel Jasper, a young Frank Jackson who was inspired with the work that Louis Stokes did as a congressperson. A lot of these public servants today were inspired by people like Louis and Carl Stokes. And I feel I have a responsibility to pass this legacy on to the People who I serve and represent. I always try to get young interns who are working with me. Now I have a fabulous intern who's a college student just pursuing her Master's, who's working for me. And that was something that was so wonderful about these two individuals that they realized that these weren't lifetime appointments and that they had to groom the next generation. I think all of us who aspire to public service have to have that mindset.
Christine Hickey [00:15:33] Okay, why do you feel, I don't know if you're- How familiar you are with this Stokes commemorative project, tell me. Okay, so it's a year long commemoration. And what we're doing is we're celebrating the work that the Stokes brothers have done. And we're doing this through these oral histories, through interviews, through. Through events throughout the city. And in the end, we'll have a permanent exhibit at the Western Reserve Historical Society. And so we're hoping that students, we see lots of students when we go to the Western Reserve Historical Society. And we're hoping that they're going to learn from this exhibit about Cleveland and they're going to learn about two men who grew up maybe in the same neighborhoods they did, and what they were able to accomplish. So. So why do you feel a project like this might be important to our community?
Matt Zone [00:16:27] You know, tell me, what's the official title of this? The Stokes. What do you call it?
Christine Hickey [00:16:34] Yeah, well, it's called Stokes Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future.
Matt Zone [00:16:40] All right. And it's being done by Tri-C?
Christine Hickey [00:16:45] There are 70 community organizations. So we're just- We're the main contributor, the main partner. But it's a huge community.
Matt Zone [00:16:54] Commemorating our Past, Honoring our Past.
Christine Hickey [00:16:57] Yeah, it's called Stokes Honoring Our Past, Inspiring Our Future.
Matt Zone [00:17:02] You know, this Stokes history project, Honoring Our Past, Commemorating Our.
Christine Hickey [00:17:07] No, wait, that's okay. Stokes Honoring Our Past, Inspiring Our Future.
Matt Zone [00:17:13] Stokes Honoring. Inspiring. This Stokes history project, Honoring Our Past, Inspiring Our Future, is so emblematic of who these two individuals are. It's so important that we leave this place better for the next generation and particularly for the young people who are listening to this interview right now or others who are watching other interviews, it's very important to know what paved the way before us. These are two of Americans, titans. Carl Stokes, the first African American elected to a major city in the United States. That's huge. I traveled the country as a national president of the National League of Cities. And when I mention the Stokes name, people remember where they were at that moment in time. And the work that Louis Stokes did on Congress is So important for that next generation. You know, I have a little tagline in my newsletter. It says, pride in our past, faith in our future. And that's all we can give. And the only legacy we can give is to pass it on to others. That's the future I'm trying to make for my family and for my family's family. And we want all people to share in that.
Christine Hickey [00:18:22] Okay, What would you say? There's many- But what would you say the legacy is? What Carl's legacy is?
Matt Zone [00:18:43] You know, when I think of Carl Stokes and what his legacy is, it's really. There are two things that come out towards me right now. We live in a society where there's still racial divides. And when Carl Stokes ran for mayor, Cleveland was a very segregated community. You had pockets of ethnicity all sprinkled throughout the city. But then you had high concentration of African American, high concentration of white, some Latino. But we were not a very integrated community. Carl's message, Carl's hope, Carl's dream transcended race. And I think he was able to pull people together at a moment in time when we really needed it. He was the right guy at the right time. And so his legacy is how he was able to build equity, build inclusion in a community that was very fractured. So what he did on race relationships was critically important for the evolution of our city. But also on the environmental side, I mean, right now, it's kind of in vogue to be responsible stewards of the environment. This was a guy who was preaching this stuff 50 years ago when nobody was. And he realized the value. If my river goes dead, if my lake goes dead, my city goes dead. And all he wanted was clean air and clean water because he knew it was vital, because the poorest people were impacted by that. Even though it was an environmental message, it was a social justice message for him because he knew he was lifting up and helping those who are the most needy.
Christine Hickey [00:20:18] Very nice. Go ahead.
Matt Zone [00:20:22] So I'm thinking about Louis Stokes.
Christine Hickey [00:20:25] Yeah, Louis' legacy. I mean, he did a lot while he was in Congress. So you mentioned previously on the. He worked on the assassination committee of JFK and MLK.
Matt Zone [00:20:39] Yeah. I don't know if, you know, that was. That was. Yeah. Well, before my time, so I don't feel comfortable talking about it.
Christine Hickey [00:20:45] That's fine. Well, now you did. You were. You were able to work with him as a councilman.
Matt Zone [00:20:50] Yeah.
Christine Hickey [00:20:50] So what from that time period? What would you say his legacy would be? Or what did you learn from him?
Matt Zone [00:21:02] So is this a time this is going up for one year, but then it's going to be archived and saved.
Christine Hickey [00:21:07] No.
Matt Zone [00:21:08] Date the piece.
Christine Hickey [00:21:09] Yes. So this is a permanent exhibit, so it could be up for 15 years.
Matt Zone [00:21:14] Okay.
Christine Hickey [00:21:15] So, yeah. So you could talk about.
Matt Zone [00:21:17] Could I say, look, here we are in 2017.
Christine Hickey [00:21:21] I wouldn't say that.
Matt Zone [00:21:22] Okay.
Christine Hickey [00:21:22] That's true. So you could refer. See what you were going to say, and then I'll see.
Matt Zone [00:21:39] I didn't know Louis Stokes as well as I knew Carl Stokes.
Christine Hickey [00:21:42] And we don't have to answer it either. So if you're not as comfortable with it, we can pass on that.
Matt Zone [00:21:47] Yeah.
Christine Hickey [00:21:48] Because we're gonna pick a couple bites, so.
Matt Zone [00:21:51] Yeah.
Christine Hickey [00:21:51] And not everybody we talk to knows both.
Matt Zone [00:21:53] Right. Maybe I'll go back to his mentorship of others.
Christine Hickey [00:22:03] What type of? Did you have a relationship while you were a councilman or was there work?
Matt Zone [00:22:08] It was mainly because of my family, who I am. I worked with him. He left Congress, you know, like two years into. It was, like, in early 2000. Was it like 2000 or 2003?
Christine Hickey [00:22:28] Yeah. So you got? He was going out and you were coming in, essentially?
Matt Zone [00:22:31] And then Stephanie Tubbs Jones became the Congress lady.
Christine Hickey [00:22:33] Right.
Matt Zone [00:22:34] So, yeah, probably I'm not the best.
Christine Hickey [00:22:36] That's fine.
Matt Zone [00:22:37] Yeah.
Christine Hickey [00:22:37] Okay. Is there anything else that you would like to talk about? Listening to what, you know, you had to say today? The environment, I don't actually have that from a lot of people. So that's something. Yeah. I mean, it's mentioned, but it's not. You put it very well. You know, So I might take the environment out of that. Our conversation here. I have their personalities in a way. That's not something that I need to get. But there was one other topic, because I have the first. But it gives me some options. So I might talk to you. You know, use your bite from, about the environment and your, and your-
Matt Zone [00:23:29] And if you're inspiration, if you're doing some editing and you want me to come back and do another, I'm open to doing that.
Christine Hickey [00:23:37] Okay.
Matt Zone [00:23:37] Yeah. My contact info.
Christine Hickey [00:23:38] Yeah, I think we're good then.
Matt Zone [00:23:40] Yeah.
Christine Hickey [00:23:41] Guys, did you have any questions that you've been.
Matt Zone [00:23:46] Okay, so the district I represent in the city of Cleveland starts at the mouth of the Cuyahoga and goes all the way west to the city of Lakewood. And I've worked over the years to try to help transform Edgewater Park. When I walk that beach, I often think about Carl Stokes and that very wonderful photo that appeared in Time Magazine of him wading in the water. And if not for him and his courage, we would not have a clean beach today. And I thank him every single day that I'm down at Edgewater Park. Thank you, Carl, for fighting for our environmental rights and social justice, which really led to us having the most magnificent beach on the North Coast. So thank you, Carl.
Christine Hickey [00:24:28] Excellent.
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