Abstract

Marcia L. Fudge was raised in Shaker Heights. Fudge served as chief staff for Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones during her first term. Fudge was mayor of Warrensville Heights from 2000 until elected to Congress in 2008. She chaired the Congressional Black Caucus from 2013-2015. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.

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Interviewee

Fudge, Marcia L. (interviewee); Hickey, Christine (participant)

Interviewer

Perry, Dee (interviewer)

Project

Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future

Date

4-20-2017

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

47 minutes

Transcript

Dee Perry [00:00:04] This is Thursday, April 20. We are sitting in the offices of Congresswoman Marcia Fudge with the interview about to begin for the Stokes Commemoration Project. And it is M,A,R,C,I,A, F,U,D,G,E, the spelling of the name. And I want to start, Congressman, by talking about the fact that you said you tried to model your life after that of your mother. And I wanted to start by having you say her name and some things that she did that inspired you.

Marcia L. Fudge [00:00:43] My mother's name is Marion Saffold and my mother is just a remarkable person. You know, for someone with a high school degree high school diploma to be a union organizer, to take care of kids by herself to make us always feel that we had everything we ever needed to make us believe we could be anything we wanted to be. For somebody who comes from Alabama you know comes up north goes to high school gets married right out of high school to give us all she gave us and to never ever have a crossword to never feel that life dealt her a bad hand. That’s a good thing. That’s a good thing

Dee Perry [00:01:29] And I was reading that early on you got involved in some of your mother’s work as an organizer, as a union organizer. What kinds of things did you do at her side?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:01:40] You know I thought that I worked for the union when I was a kid I folded envelopes, I knocked on doors, I went to union meetings, I did everything but get paid. I really believed I worked for the union. And so all my life I believed that unions were a good thing because that is what allowed me to have the few things that we had to go to college to know what it means to work hard for other people and not just yourself. So I just always thought that that’s what I was supposed to do. What I was supposed to be was just to be involved.

Dee Perry [00:02:14] And what kind of messages did you get from either spoken or just by example about the importance of education?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:02:22] Well there were two things in our house that you always had to keep in the forefront. One was faith, and the other was education.I think until I was years of age. I went to church every Sunday. I went to Bible school. I went to Sunday School. I went to Vacation Bible school. I’m that church girl that everybody thinks they know. That’s me. And education was number two If we didn't t get good grades or we didn’t t go to church we did nothing else. That was it. That was the rule. If you didn’t do well in school all other activities were off. And I was an athlete growing up most of my life. So I couldn’t t play sports. I couldn’t t do anything. I couldn’t t even go to the movies. I will never forget Dee, when I got my first C I was in the fourth grade. I think I cried all the way home because I thought that they would feel that I wasn’t t giving my best. So education was important

Dee Perry [00:03:17] What was the subject that you got the C in?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:03:20] I don’t even remember what it was. I’m coming home from Washington Irving Elementary School, and I got my report card, and I have a C. And I just couldn’t understand. I had never ever even had a B minus. You know back then it was you know you had the minuses and the pluses. I had never had a B minus, let alone a C. I was distraught. I was really really upset I got a lot of them after that, but that one was the first one. So it really took me a time to get over that one.

Dee Perry [00:03:49] And you just said something that caught my ear which is not on the page, but I just wanted to follow up for a second. You went to Washington Irving Elementary School?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:03:56] I did.

Dee Perry [00:03:57] That was the first elementary school I went to because we lived on and in roughly the same neighborhood.

Marcia L. Fudge [00:04:05] So.

Dee Perry [00:04:08] what kind of education did you feel like you got? Looking back on it in those early days?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:04:14] Attending Washington Irving Elementary School, and growing up in the environment I grew up in I received an excellent education. First off the teachers were committed. Most of them lived in our neighborhood. They were our neighbors they were our friends.They expected the best of us and we gave the best we had It was a family in an awful lot of ways.Some of the people I went to elementary school with I am still friends with today. I still know who my teachers were. I see them. I talk with them because they took such great pride in making sure that you were prepared for the next step, so it was something like I’ve never experienced since quite frankly.

Dee Perry [00:04:57] You would have been about years old when Carl Stokes first ran for mayor in? How aware were you you at that time of his running or the campaign?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:05:12] I was very aware actually. I don’t know that I understood all of it but my mother and my grandmother and my aunt was very involved in his campaign. So they talked about it all the time I mean what we knew was a Black man was running for the mayor of the city of Cleveland. I didn't understand all the politics at that point, but I knew about the campaign clearly. And the other thing that people sometimes forget is I was in school Angie Stokes, Lou Stokes daughter was my classmate. And so we all knew each other growing up. And so we were always involved in what was going on, so you always had that understanding that it was something big it was something important

Dee Perry [00:05:49] And you said your aunt was really involved?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:05:52] My aunt Mildred Smith was very involved because she was involved in a lot of activities and she knew a lot of the people who were running for office et cetera at that time. She was at that age where she was very excited about people being involved in politics looked like us. And so she was always involved And my grandmother who was the deaconess of our church she was our choir director. She was a domestic until the day she died, but she was one of the most influential people in my neighborhood. Everybody looked to my grandmother. And so my grandmother talked about all kinds of things. And we were those families that sat and had dinner together every day. So around the dinner table we heard about what was going on. So it was really kind of commonplace for us.

Dee Perry [00:06:41] I’m wondering about when Carl ran again in? Was your family and your neighborhood more involved in the campaign?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:06:51] Oh yeah, I was actually involved. You know I think maybe you may have heard about the Young Folks for Stokes. I was one of the leaders of the Young Folks for Stokes. And we had actually gotten so good at this that we had our school in Shaker Heights allow us to leave half a day to go and campaign for Carl Stokes. We were very. We are a very activist group of young people. As I look back on it we just thought it was fun you know we thought it was what we were doing what we were supposed to do. But we were really very activist oriented when I was in junior high school and high school.

Dee Perry [00:07:28] And I wanted to dwell on high school for a moment because I thought it was interesting that in your graduating class there were two other high profile politicians former mayor Jane Campbell and former county commissioner Peter Lawson Jones. Were you aware of each other I guess what I m wondering is if you were all demonstrating leadership qualities at that high school age? And it sounds like as if you were you know in high school?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:07:56] In my high school class okay we had Jane Jane Campbell, Peter Lawson Jones, Angie Stokes was in my class and Wilmer Benjamin who was a state rep and now a mayor. We were all classmates. There were six elected officials out of my class. I think that we probably displayed leadership and didn’t even know that we were. I think of all of us five of us were athletes. And so we played sports all through school And we all knew each other fairly well as well I mean we had a fairly small class, so we knew each other. We were very active probably more than most but didn’t realize it. I mean I’ll never forget when in, when Martin Luther King died we staged a walkout at our school. Who does that at that age. We literally said if you don’t close this school and allow us to go downtown to be involved we’re walking out. And they said well no we’re not going to close. And we walked out. So I think probably we always had something in us that made us want to make a difference. I don’t know if we thought about it at that time as leadership, but we were all there and we were all committed.

Dee Perry [00:09:16] What did you feel when Carl Stokes won the election for mayor in the year before that?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:09:24] We were so excited. We didn’t know what to do I mean we just felt like we were a part of something special something that was going to change the face of this nation. And in a lot of ways his election changed the face of this nation. We were proud. Not just Black students all of the students together we were proud to say that we supported the person who became the first Black mayor of a major city in the United States and he was in our hometown. We were all proud

Dee Perry [00:09:57] And did you have the sense did you recognize that it wasn’t just a great Cleveland accomplishment that it was national and even international?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:10:07] I think it took us longer to figure that out. We were just excited about being here. We were excited about being a part of something that we knew was so big. We knew it was bigger than we were and we just were happy to say. We knocked on some doors and we sang songs and we talked to our parents and we talked to our neighbors. And it was just It was something that I think will always stick with me. It was a good time in our lives.

Dee Perry [00:10:35] Were you paying attention as Carl Stokes administration began to unfold or were you preoccupied with other things at that point?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:10:49] Finishing high school you know as his administration started to unfold of course everybody was looking to see who was going to be in his cabinet. I didn’t know these people I was just listening to my mother and my grandmother and various other people talk about it. But we went back to doing what kids do. We went back to finishing school. We went back to playing our sports to doing the things that we like to do because at that point the victory had been won for us. That was our victory, so we just went back to being kids.

Dee Perry [00:11:20] Before you graduated though. Another milestone happened in terms of politics and that was Louis Stokes run and then win for congressman. Was that something that you and the family were also involved with that campaigning that election? Was there a different sense of pride when he won?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:11:44] Well you know it really- When Lou Stokes became a congressman, it really wasn't about an election. If my recollection serves me there was a lawsuit indicating that the way we were electing congresspeople precluded African Americans from winning even in a city that had the kind of African American population we had. And so basically what happened was when the lawsuit was filed a group of people including my cousin and some others got together and said who is going to be this person. And they picked Lou. So it really wasn’t about electing him It was about this is the person that we want to represent our community. And the only reason I had any real knowledge of it of course is because some of my family members were involved but because of Angie just going to school with Angie and so we had some idea of what was going on. Yeah.

Dee Perry [00:12:38] Even though he was the chosen one for some though there were a lot of contenders in the primary who saw that as their opportunity.

Marcia L. Fudge [00:12:47] They did, but it was so clear that he was the one they chose. And Lou Stokes is the one they wanted primarily as well because he’s the one who really took the lawsuit forward. He was one heck of a good lawyer. So he took the lawsuit forward and they actually decided to agree to make that seat more winnable because they knew they were going to lose the lawsuit.

Dee Perry [00:13:16] At the time you went to college you went to Ohio State University. You were majoring in business.

Marcia L. Fudge [00:13:23] Well first for two years I didn’t major in anything. I just went to school until finally my counselor said Marc you got to pick a major so you can graduate. So I said okay I’ll pick business.

Dee Perry [00:13:35] So there wasn’t any burning desire to?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:13:38] No, I was good in math and so I took all these classes. You take all your classes your prerequisites, but I like to read. So I took all these comp lit courses. So it was either English or math, and I didn’t have to take as many more classes if I picked math. So I became a business major an economics major.

Dee Perry [00:13:59] But after that you decided to go to law school. Why was that a choice?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:14:04] Law school, I think I decided to go to law school because so many people I admired were lawyers. Not that I really knew what I would do with it. I just knew that people that I admired I mean whether it be Barbara Jordan, Lou Stokes, Carl Stokes. Teachers that I had in undergraduate school friends that I admired they were lawyers.There was a woman named Bette Wimbish out of Florida who I met through the sorority, who was a great mentor of mine. She was a lawyer. So I just decided one day you know what this can’t be all bad I’ll just go to law school. And I just did.

Dee Perry [00:14:50] And I think it’s interesting that you followed a path that both Carl and Louis Stokes did attending Cleveland Marshall College of Law. And then in the case of Carl working in the prosecutor’s office for some time. At the time that you worked there was Stephanie Tubbs Jones already in place or did she come after you began working?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:15:18] I went to the prosecutor’s office with Stephanie. When Stephanie was elected prosecutor as most communities do we decided that we needed to find a way to protect her because she was the first Black prosecutor in a very contentious election if you recall running in opposition to at that time the son of the plus year prosecutor. It was very very tense, so what we decided was we had to have people there that would have her back. And because I had a finance background even though I was a lawyer I had a finance background. So they said you know what.The first place people will try to weaken you is with the money. So I went to the prosecutor’s office initially to watch the money. So I was her finance person to make sure the budgets were right how we handled the payroll how we handled writing checks, I mean to put in place all of the things. Because when we got there nothing was there. Everything had been destroyed or removed. There was nothing there. And so we had to start again. So my job was to put in place those things personnel manuals all of the things that would make that office run efficiently and effectively. So that was my job.

Dee Perry [00:16:36] And the office of the prosecutor is responsible for what so that people understand what her job was?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:16:46] Well the prosecutor of Cuyahoga County at that time and I don’t know what the numbers are now but I would guess they re close. At that time of all of the criminal cases in the state of Ohio went through Cuyahoga county’s prosecutor s office. That doesn’t even include the civil division things. The resources were tremendous. It was in fact the largest law firm in the state of Ohio But it also was a very political office. So you had to run for office you had to run for reelection and you had to deal with all these people when we first came who didn’t want us there. So it was a very difficult time. Initially Stephanie was a master politician and really did over time win over most of the people in that office because we just believed in doing our jobs in being fair. But we also believed that you don’t overcharge people you don’t mistreat people because of where they come from or what they look like. So there was a different culture. We had to create a different culture in that office, and ultimately she did.

Dee Perry [00:17:49] Was there any interaction in that office with Congressman Lou Stokes while Stephanie was prosecutor?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:17:53] No I mean we just. Everybody just did their jobs. You know I mean there always was relationships. Mind you there were not a whole lot of Black elected officials at that time. Where you look today there are probably in the county or when you look at council people school board people et cetera et cetera. That wasn’t the case then. There were a few people who stood out. Of course the congressman did, but you got to realize at the time Stephanie not only was the prosecutor, but there was a lot of jobs and a lot of power with that position. So she stood out. You know there were judges you know that stood out. She stood out differently because of all of the jobs and all of the power that went along with that job. There’s one prosecutor in Cuyahoga County. There are probably or judges It s one prosecutor there’s one congressman.There are lots of council people lots of mayors lots of school board people but there’s one congressman. And so they stood out So there’s always been you know we always communicated.

Dee Perry [00:19:03] And the reason I ask is because I wanted to get a sense of how Stephanie became the handpicked successor when Louis Stokes said it’s time for me to step down.

Marcia L. Fudge [00:19:15] I’m not so sure if she was the hand picked one. My recollection is a little different. My recollection is that she indeed was interested. So what the congressman Arnold Pinckney a bunch of other people they got together a group of people and said you know what let’s create a process by which all who are interested would have to come through an interview process with these leaders these civic leaders and elected officials. And based upon what they bring to the table and their ability to win we will then choose the person we support Stephanie didn’t start out number one but by the end of the process she clearly was number one.

Dee Perry [00:20:00] How did you feel when she asked you to go to Washington as her chief of staff?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:20:06] When she asked me to be her chief of staff I first told her no there is nothing I want to do in Washington D.C. And I do not wish to live in Washington D.C., so we go a few months and a few months. And then she says I don’t have anybody go with me. You gotta come with me. So I said okay I said I’ll go with you just long enough for you to find the chief of staff. Right, so I ended up being there a year and putting everything in place. It’s interesting.You take two people like Stephanie and I who have great educators and have seen a lot of things in our lives, but that was a new experience. So we get there and everybody’s trying to figure out who are these people right. So our philosophy was, at least mine was Stephanie we may not know what we’re doing, but we gonna look like it. So you go in and when they came in that first day when the new class came in we had all the phones on the desk flowers on the desk computers. Now none of it hooked up. It’s just there. But people like how’d they get. They got all this stuff together. My thing is we gonna look like we belong here. And over time we learned so much. You know she was very very outgoing. She was very likable, and people knew that Lou Stokes supported her. And so a lot of people surrounded her and said, You know what? If he likes you, we like you. And we just we figured out how to go. We found our way.

Dee Perry [00:21:30] I'm also curious about in the course of those interviews that led to her being the top choice to run?

Dee Perry [00:21:43] If there were conversations that Lou Stokes had about his interests about the things that he had done and about sort of guiding her or finding out what her interests were if they were compatible?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:21:57] Well I think probably more he was concerned about someone who would protect his legacy, someone who would never embarrass him, someone who was smart, someone who would make him proud. And so I think that he may have had. Well, he had conversations with her but not only her but I think that he clearly knew she was the best choice. And so ultimately it became clear that he did favor her candidacy over the others. But she went through the process just like everybody else. She just happened to come out on top. It’s interesting because there were so many elected officials in this town who didn’t want it to be her. This is interesting. 

Dee Perry [00:22:43] Because she was a woman? Because they wanted the job? Because-

Marcia L. Fudge [00:22:45] A combination of things. It was a combination of she was a woman and they weren’t sure they wanted her to be a woman. Yeah, that they some of them wanted the job. But the other thing was remember there had never been a Black prosecutor. And so they knew if she left we would be put back in the same situation of having the possibility of once again being overcharged being convicted of crimes we didn’t commit not getting a fair representation and go back to what we used to call being persecutors instead of prosecutors. So there was a big fear that we’d go back to the old days there would be a void if she left the prosecutor’s office.

Dee Perry [00:23:34] You were talking about your year as chief of staff when you came back after that year? What was your intention? What were you planning to do back here?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:23:47] Well, actually I was running for mayor of Warrensville at the time. It was a strange time. People in the community had come to me and said we really need you to run. If you remember at that time the mayor had been indicted and convicted and had to step down. Council president had stepped up but people were looking for something new. They were looking for someone who they did not believe was in the old regime someone who they believed they could get elected. Because if you recall even though at that time Warrensville was more than minority there had never been a Black mayor elected Black mayor. And they said it was time. So they were trying to find somebody who in their minds was above reproach. I was a lawyer I went to good schools I had been a prosecutor I had worked in Washington. They thought that I would be the type of person who could get elected. So I finally agreed to run. So even though I was in Washington, I was coming home quite a bit because I was running for mayor that same year her first year in office.

Dee Perry [00:24:58] That's interesting because I didn’t realize the timeline that the timelines overlapped. And up to that point you had no interest in running for elected office or had you changed your mind?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:25:13] I had never in my life thought about running for elective office. Never ever wanted to. Never thought about it And I had worked for elected officials for years. I worked for the county auditors office for a number of years before I went with Stephanie. I’ve been in public service most of my life. Never had any desire to do it.

Dee Perry [00:25:35] And you said yes because?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:25:38] I said yes because at the point at that point that was my way home. I didn’t want to be in Washington I wanted to be at home I was finally convinced. You know my mother and I told you about faith. When I first talked to my mother about it she said you know we re just going to pray on it. And so as we prayed about it, it just kind of became clear that that’s where God wanted me to be at least in my mind. And so I’ve always tried to go where God wants me to go. And so I said okay let s give it a shot. Just try it, but it also brought me home.

Dee Perry [00:26:18] And as we touched on you were a double first the first female mayor of Warrensville Heights. The first African American mayor elected mayor elected in that city. Was that particularly challenging at that point in time? I mean I mean it’s not that long ago but still it s a milestone that seems peculiarly late.

Marcia L. Fudge [00:26:49] My biggest challenge is mayor of Warrensville. Well, there were two. I had replaced someone who had been there for more than years who people believed was a good mayor. He really wasn’t but they believed he was. So there were two issues that I fought. One was that believe it or not I m a Black mayor of a Black city and they said we’re going to become East Cleveland. The second one was I think even though I had more education than the former mayor that I wasn’t smart enough to run the city. So the one thing that I can say today that gives me a great sense of pride is that when I left the mayor s job they were proud they lived in Warrensville Heights. They were proud I was their mayor. They no longer said to people when they said where do you live. They said oh I live in Cleveland or I live near Cleveland. They said I live in Warrensville Heights. It was a great sense of pride for me. No matter what else we did I mean we did great things. We got us out of debt. We built more things than any city around us, and we are still today. We put Warrensville on the map and they were proud.

Dee Perry [00:28:05] In the course of your tenure as mayor, did you have continue interactions with Stephanie Tubbs Jones and with Louis Stokes?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:28:16] Stephanie was one of my closest friends. I mean, so we spent a lot of time together. As a matter of fact when we were in Washington we lived together we were roommates. So we always spent a lot of time together. We were very close I never spent a lot of time with the congressman I mean he was you know he was a congressman. He was in Washington a lot of times. He’d come home on weekends like I do but I was not involved in it very much Stephanie spent quite a bit of time with him. But I just went around doing what I do because I was curious.

Dee Perry [00:28:44] As a first time mayor who your support system was who you turned to for advice or counsel?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:28:56] It’s interesting Stephanie always was very helpful because Stephanie knew politics.But Wellington Webb the mayor of Denver was really one of my mentors. One of the first things I did when I was elected I went to a conference of Black mayors Wellington Webb was the president of the council of Black mayors. And he and I just became friends, so he would help me or if I had questions I’d call somebody and say you know Mike White was a friend. You know Mike and I went to undergraduate school together so if things came up I’d call. When Jane was elected of course we talked. So I had a lot of people that could really help me but really most of it wasn’t I didn’t need a lot of advice on how to run it. I just needed a lot of advice on how you make things work in a way that people are accepting of it. You know that was my bigger challenge I’ve run things a long time. I mean every place I’ve been basically that was my job I was the number two or number three person and I ran it. So it wasn’t that I didn’t understand how to do that. It was how do you do it in a way and deal with all of these different people and entities that you have to deal with, that heretofore I had never had to deal with, so that was my point.

Dee Perry [00:30:16] Build a consensus?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:30:17] Exactly. You know how do you get your city council to support what you do. I was just used to doing things, but you know you got to get people now on board with you. You have to make them believe in what you’re doing because that’s how you get things done.

Dee Perry [00:30:35] It was a devastating blow when Stephanie passed unexpectedly, and I’m wondering about the process that led you to filling that vacancy that she left. Did people again come to you?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:30:55] Yes I mean it’s not something I ever had any desire to do, but they start saying well you know and I know that part of it is true they would say if Stephanie could pick her successor it would be you. But I think as well if you remember the time it was when Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were running and Stephanie had supported Hillary and she took such grief in this community. People were so nasty and mean. And a couple of the people who were interested had been some of those very nasty and mean people. And I had decided I would never let them have that seat. Even if I didn’t win. I wasn’t going to let them win. That may not be a good reason to run but that is the truth. But many, many people called me to ask me to do it And I really honestly truly wasn’t going to do it. But the more I thought about it and the more angry I became about how she lived her last days. I said I can’t not do this. So I did it.

Dee Perry [00:32:11] And what kept you doing it?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:32:16] I think I do it now because first off it s something that I think. I’m good at. I’m a policy person and it is policy, but I think I do it because I think people trust what I do. There are not an awful lot of elected officials who people trust and who people give their confidence. And I think that it is a responsibility for those of us who have that trust and that confidence to do the best we can. And I don’t mind fighting for the people that I work for every day. I don’t mind giving up whatever my private time is. That is what I do and that is what people expect me to do, and that is where I believe God wants me to be.

Dee Perry [00:33:07] I wonder if even when someone isn’t asking the question as I m about to if you look at predecessors like Louis Stokes like Carl Stokes and say I’m a continuation in that line in that legacy?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:33:28] Well I am. If you think about it there’s only been three congresspeople in this congressional district.Technically after they redid the lines okay it’s been Louis Stokes, Stephanie Tubbs Jones, and me. So absolutely I see myself in that lineage no question.

Dee Perry [00:33:50] And I m wondering what you see the Stokes brothers legacy as I mean what could you point to and say they left that behind for the city of Cleveland and really for the country as well?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:34:07] If I had to think of their legacy or what it is they left behind the first thing I would say is it doesn’t make any difference where you start It only makes a difference where you finish. And that if you work hard anything is possible I think that’s what people need to see. Hard work brings about change. So you know I’ve always prided myself on my work ethic. I’m sure they did Stephanie did all of us do.That’s what makes us who we are is that we’re not afraid of hard work. We re not afraid to fail. We’re not afraid to start at the bottom and work our way to the top. It’s not where you start, it’s always where you finish.

Dee Perry [00:34:58] What do you see as something that you’re doing now to ensure that there’s a continuation a line that can connect young people today, to be on the same path that led you to where you are?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:35:16] I talk to a lot of young people. I love young people, but I also encourage young people to get into public service. I probably on an annual basis have maybe even some years interns at work between my two offices. I have a Youth Advisory council of high school students who. But for having this experience most of them may not even leave their neighborhoods. I have gatherings of young people to just share with me the difficulty that they live through every day something that I don’t know that I could ever have done I encourage young people to run for office. And ultimately I tell them all you may never have a life in public service and that is okay with me, but in your life find time to help somebody that is less fortunate than you. That will make you a great person, and so I mentor them I get them involved in activities that I’m in. I just think that it’s our responsibility to bring along the next generation. And I try very hard to do it. My whole staff is young with the exception of three or four people. I mean I probably only have, out of the people on my staff I bet you there’s probably not more than three that are over years of age. And when they started they were under most of them. So I really do work very hard to make sure that they have a chance at this.

Dee Perry [00:36:48] And I wanted to touch a little bit more on the Youth Advisory Council. Their role is what? 

Marcia L. Fudge [00:36:59] Their role is basically to say to me, Congresswoman, this is the kind of legislation that we think will help us in our schools. This is what we think will help us in our homes, but when they come to me and say that they’re afraid to walk home from school or that they don t get a decent meal but maybe once or twice a week. So then I have other issues that I need to deal with. So that is why I fight so hard for things like SNAP and WIC and making sure that we keep school nutrition as now they re trying to do away with free breakfast and lunch. Sometimes it’s the only meal these kids get in a day. So it helps me round out my issues. I’m on the Education Committee for a reason. Because what I know growing up on and in Quincy is that education is the great equalizer. No matter where you come from if you get a good education you get a chance. And so I listen to young people because it keeps me in touch with the things I need to be talking about because they are growing up. Very very different than I grew up. So they’re good. They’re a good sounding board and it exposes them to so much.

Dee Perry [00:38:16] Gosh, that, I think, is everything that was on my list. 

Marcia L. Fudge [00:38:22] Man, because you done made me work hard. Now y’all can cut that out. I done worked hard today. I have worked hard.

Christine Hickey [00:38:28] I have a little bit I want to talk about. I know-

Marcia L. Fudge [00:38:31] Where did she come from? [crosstalk] Christine Hickey [00:38:36] Right. I hide behind these. Just picture the words coming out of these.

Marcia L. Fudge [00:38:40] Okay. All right.

Christine Hickey [00:38:42] I know you mentioned that you essentially grew up in the same neighborhood with Louis Stokes and his daughter and everything but do you have a memory of coming across him professionally for the first time and you know maybe what. What you thought of at that time if he was an influence to you or the first time you met him as a congressman you know and you were in politics at the time?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:39:09] Oh you know when I first met him.

Christine Hickey [00:39:10] Well you weren’t

Marcia L. Fudge [00:39:11] Yeah I mean he was just. He’s just a father of my friend. Right.

Christine Hickey [00:39:14] No but I’m talking later in life when you came across each other professionally.

Marcia L. Fudge [00:39:20] Oh I came across Lou Stokes professionally so many times. I would probably say the time that probably I was most impressed is actually after I was elected. He came to Washington. He came by my office I said well lets walk over to the dining room and have lunch. And as I walked through the halls of Congress from my office all the way to the Capitol people stopped him every five feet. Congressman, Congressman. I knew he was popular but I never knew how popular he was in Congress. I never knew how people loved him in Congress. I knew what we felt about him here but to see it there it was. He was humbled by it and I was amazed by it. And I said to myself I hope that when I leave here they will hold me in the same regard that they held him. He has something special to see.

Christine Hickey [00:40:20] Why do you feel he was so well respected?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:40:24] I mean I think he was very well respected for a number of reasons. First off he was smart as all get out. Secondly he was always a statesman. Thirdly he was a kind and gentle man. You know we call each other gentleman and gentlelady. Most of us aren’t. He was. He was a gentle man and people trusted him and he was always honest and he was hard working. What’s not to like. You know what is not to like. He treated everybody with respect no matter their station in life. And I think that’s something that’s out of the ordinary. I walk through the halls today and I’ll have people custodial people or whatever, they’ll come up and say are you a congresswoman. I’ll say yes.You don’t act like a congressman. I said, what’s that mean? You talk to us. I talk to everybody. But I learned that from him, I mean not that it's not something that’s not innate in any way but people thought it so odd, I'm thinking that’s what Cleveland people do. That’s who we are. We talk to everybody. Stephanie was the same way but people think that’s odd. But he was. And he always stood up for what he believed.You know the whole concept in thinking about minority health disparities that came from Lou Stokes, not because he had to do it. He was still taking care of his people every day. That’s why you see his name on buildings at hospitals on universities all across this country because they knew. But for him the whole issue of minority health and its disparities would never have come to the daylight but for him. And that was after he had been in Congress probably years still mattered.

Christine Hickey [00:42:14] Were there any other policies or In what ways did you What other ways maybe did you see him working for Cleveland? You know even from Washington?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:42:27] I mean he was a congressman. He came to everything. Excuse me.

Christine Hickey [00:42:33] I didn’t know if there was any.

Marcia L. Fudge [00:42:34] I mean you know he- Well, I mean there- I'm sure issues- I can't just off the top of my head think of any. But I know that he would stand up for us whenever something was going wrong in this city in our party. I mean I remember so well that at one point the Democratic Party had done something that he didn’t like. He just decided we’re not going to vote for any Democrats because they were not taking care of his people. I remember when we came up with things like Gateway and all those things he involved himself in things that were important to this community. He never shied away from a fight no matter, who the mayor was no matter who was on the other side he always did what he believed was right. And when you come home every week and you talk to people every week people see you as their voice. And he was that for us for a very very long time.

Christine Hickey [00:43:26] You mentioned you had in common that you. You know the two of you he was very friendly. You’re friendly Stephanie’s friendly. Were there any other lessons that you took away from watching Lou or knowing Lou? Did you take any lessons away and you apply them on what you do today?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:43:46] I mean like I said the lesson is if you work hard, you prepare yourself. I mean we all three have good educations. We all three work very very hard. We all three have a desire to serve our communities. So if that’s what you’re asking me. I mean you see it every day in it. I mean you saw that until the day he died. He was still on boards. He was years old. He was writing a book. He was still speaking at universities and speaking at lunches and dinners. He just never stopped. He never stopped giving. And I think that that’s what public servants do.

Christine Hickey [00:44:31] Was there anything else you wanted to say about Lou Stokes or Louis Stokes or Carl Stokes and their contributions to the Cleveland community?

Marcia L. Fudge [00:44:40] I think the Stokes brothers probably more than any other single group of people changed the face not only of Cleveland but of this nation. When I sit back and think about even things like the Hough riots how many people. How many mayors would walk the streets with people shooting and killing and robbing? Not many Carl Stokes did. How many people would put their own lives at risk to save a community Carl Stokes did you know? How many people would put their families and friends in jeopardy to do what they think is right Carl and Lou Stokes did?How many people would step out and take the kind of abuse Carl Stokes took when he ran for mayor the first time? Not many but they did. So they persevered when so many people wouldn’t. And they gave us all hope and they gave us all a direction and they made us all know that any of us could do what they did as long as we prepared ourselves we dedicated ourselves and we were willing to take the kind of abuse they took in this town. I think the one thing that Lou Stokes did for me that I will never ever be able never could thank him for. And I don’t even know why he really did it. But when Lou got really really ill I was talking to Nancy Pelosi and I was telling her how sick he was. I was supposed to take a trip with her and I said I’m not going because I don’t want to be gone if something should happen. I knew his death was imminent. I had been in Congress at that point eight years, and she says to me she says did I ever tell you what Lou Stokes told me about you? I said no. She said he said a lot of good things about Stephanie. When she came he said but when you came he said I am sending you my best. I’ll never forget it.

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