Abstract
Louis “Chuck” Stokes is the only son of Louis Stokes. He began his career as a sports writer for the Washington Post. For over 30 years he has been the editorial/public affairs director and moderator for news and public affairs show “Spotlight on the News” for WXYZ in Detroit. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.
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Interviewee
Stokes, Chuck (interviewee)
Interviewer
Perry, Dee (interviewer)
Project
Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future
Date
9-19-2017
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
51 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Chuck Stokes interview, 19 September 2017" (2017). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 501008.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1215
Transcript
Dee Perry [00:00:04] So you ready to have a little conversation?
Chuck Stokes [00:00:05] Okay.
Dee Perry [00:00:06] Okay. So now I'm not going to be part of the question, theoretically. So you can kind of maybe rephrase the question in your answer. So let's kind of talk a little bit about- Start talking about your Uncle Carl.
Chuck Stokes [00:00:18] Okay.
Dee Perry [00:00:19] Tell me about your memories of him.
Chuck Stokes [00:00:23] I have wonderful memories of my Uncle Carl. He lived just a few streets over from where we lived. We lived on Albion Road and they lived on 147th. And so you could easily walk from our house to his house as a kid. It was a good, healthy 15-minute walk or so, maybe a little more. You know how the years take over. And everything was close back then. It was just one sort of big neighborhood, even that section of Cleveland. And then we were just across the line in Shaker. But the things I remember about him are probably not the things that the average person would remember most. I think more people think of him in terms of the political Carl Stokes. But my association was he gave us our first dog, which was a Rottweiler. He loved dogs. He loved gardening, and I think that's something that a lot of people don't remember. My grandmother loved gardening and I think he picked up that skill. My father had absolutely nothing to do in garden. I never remember seeing my father work in a garden, but Carl did. He would get his hands dirty and he would enjoy doing that. He was a ferocious reader. And you would always see him at holiday dinners and stuff. He would have in his hand paperbacks and more often than not they were like cowboy type of paperback, maybe action thriller of some type. But he loved reading those. And I think that helped him with his vocabulary because if you listen to him, you knew he had a wonderful vocabulary and he had a great sense of humor. There was a serious side to him, but he was a kidder too. He loved kidding my dad and ribbing him about different things. And then he loved asking you questions. He was an engaging person, engaging personality. I remember when they would go out of town on trips and I was in my teens and so I was at that age where they would ask me to come over and make sure I would feed the dog while they were gone. They had a beautiful Rottweiler. I remember her name was Candy and. And she had her little fenced in run area. And so I would come over and I'd take care of Candy and clean up and feed her and do all those things. And I love dogs. And so we have not a big dog. We have a little cavalier King Charles. And we had to negotiate with- My daughter said they wanted a dog. And I said, well, how about a Rottweiler? And my wife said, no. My wife grew up with a poodle. So the compromise was the cavalier. So I think that's probably where I got my love for that. I enjoy gardening and those things. So I think I picked up some of those things from my grandmother and from my uncle. But he was. He loved family. Family was very important to him. And even as I got older and he got older, he was fond of writing you notes, if you know Carl, he. Carl loved having pictures taken of himself. And so. And he would send you, you know, a photo or something when he took on a new position, whether it was going to the judge bench or when he was up in New York doing broadcasting. And he'd sign it and he'd write you nice little hand notes. Both dad and Carl enjoyed writing people personal notes. Because that was before the day of computers and typing and all those things. So I've kept some of them, and it's nice. I was cleaning out something not terribly long ago and was able to read some of those things. When I got married to my wife, Trudy, he made it a point of coming up to Detroit for the wedding. And his son Cordell was one of the groomsmen. When my oldest daughter was christened in Detroit, he came up for that. So family was always important. And then our family was originally from a little place called Wrens, Georgia, which my sister Shelly probably told you something about. She's the real historian of the family. And Carl and I took a trip there once when my great aunt passed away. And so I was sort of representing our side of the family because my father wasn't able to make it. He was in Congress at that time. And we went there and had a great trip. And he was fascinated by the history of the south and the family. My father never went to Wrens. He never went back. He said he never had any real interest or a desire to do that. Because I guess my grandmother didn't talk about it in lofty terms. But Carl had, I think, this sense of curiosity and wanted to see where were the roots? Where did we start from? And so there's just, you know, just lots of different memories. And of course, I admired what he did in his political career as well.
Dee Perry [00:05:38] So let's talk a little bit. Shelley was talking about that when, as Carl was going through different elected offices, you know, the kids would be out there kind of helping the campaign and. And things like that. So talk about seeing him as Uncle Carl and then Carl the politician, the elected official? Tell me about that?
Chuck Stokes [00:05:59] I probably don't remember quite as much about the campaign as Shelley did because she was four years older. But I was in junior high, probably just started junior high around seventh grade, I would think. When he was finally elected, he ran in '65 and was not successful then, and then came back two years later, as you know, and won. But when he was campaigning for that election that he did win, I remember him campaigning. I remember going to a few of the campaign rallies and where you would work inside, you know, the election headquarters or the campaign headquarters. I don't think I did nearly as much as maybe Shelly did because I was younger and I was a young guy. I was playing football and basketball and doing wr, riding my bike and doing all those sorts of things. So it wasn't front and center on my agenda at that time. But I remember more of the effect after he got elected. My first job was at a place called Sacks Rexall Drugstore. And Nate Sacks was the owner of the drugstore. And it was on Kinsman. And Nate Sacks was an avid supporter of Uncle Carl in his campaign. And you probably are familiar with the album that Uncle Carl did, in which on one side is poetry, quoting a lot of Langston Hughes poems, and then on the other side was a press conference he had up in New York in which young people challenged him about politics and the system. And this was in the 60s, so it was the height of the Civil Rights Movement and when African Americans were angry about the treatment that they were receiving. And so these young guys were wanting to know, why shouldn't they be more militant and why should they trust working within the system? And it was Uncle Carl, I think, at his absolute best. I mean, if somebody didn't live in that time period and they really wanted a sense of who Carl Stokes was and how charismatic he was and how bright and how intelligent and how engaging he was, and then how much he was a fighter. Because all of those things come through on that album, then they need to pick that up and go listen to it. And you can get it through YouTube and other places now. It showed what made him electable and what drew people to him to become the first African American mayor of a major American city. And Carl was all about first. I think he was the first Democrat to be elected to the Ohio House of Representatives. And then he became the first African American mayor of a major American city. Then he became a first when he went to New York as an African American and anchored in that big market. And then when he was elected or appointed to the Seychelles Islands. And so he was the first, I think, to be work on all different branches of government. And I think that's what Carl was. Carl was a trailblazer, a barrier breaker. And I think that's what excited and propelled him is he liked doing the things that people said you can't do. That's not something for African Americans. I think Carl figure that was a challenge to Carl. And he had a lot of fight and a lot of kind of street instinct in him. And I think he wanted to prove that in this country, if you get your education, if you work hard, you can be anything you want to be. That's America. And on that album, while he would understand and empathize with what the young militants in the crowd were saying to him. He was also telling him you have to work within the system, that the second you think you can take on the system, that you'll be annihilated in one form or another. But he also showed that while he was not happy with many of the things that were happening in America, that he still was going to work within the system to change America. And he did it in an eloquent way. So I would encourage people to get a hold of that and you would see the true Carl Stokes.
Dee Perry [00:10:59] Do you have any recollections from the night that he was elected and you were in the early teens maybe at that point?
Chuck Stokes [00:11:06] Yeah, probably around seventh grade, vaguely. I mean, I remember it happening. I don't remember as many details as my sister does in terms of dad taking us down there. I remember more about when dad was elected and being down there with him. But I remember people happy. I remember people partying in the streets. The jubilation, the excitement, not just within the African American community, but all over Cleveland and all over the country that this was a first. And I remember the pride that the Clevelanders in particular had, because this is something that happened here, not in Los Angeles, not in Chicago. And to think that he did it in a city that at that time was not a majority African American city. There were more whites in Cleveland than there were Blacks in Cleveland at that particular time, which proved that he had to reach beyond his own community to be elected. And he campaigned hard on the west side in other places. So I remember the excitement, but I remember more of that evening. But I remember more once he got elected, the pride that people had. And the reason I mentioned that one album on record is because Sacks used to play that album. In his store over the intercom system. And so. And he did it, I think, because it was his way of patrons who had just come in to buy whatever, who weren't thinking about politics or maybe even Carl Stokes, for that five or 10 or 15 minutes that they were in that store, they would hear what Carl Stokes was saying. And it was a form of campaigning. It was his way of helping Carl get elected. And once he got elected, sensitized the people to this is our. Our mayor of the city of Cleveland. And he would play it over and over. Well, I worked there. I may be there for a shift of 6, 7, 8 hours. So I would hear it over and over and over again. But I remember that and had more impact on me than probably anything else. And then people coming into the store. We were raised to not really brag about the family and who we were. So as a kid, I just wanted to be known as Chucky. And so oftentimes I wouldn't even say my last name because I wanted people to just sort of accept me as myself. So oftentimes, things that I would hear about dad and Carl and how people felt about them was without them knowing who I was. And that gave us a great sense of pride because I think people really respected what they did and the job that they did. And even if they may not have agreed with their politics, I think they had respect for how they carried themselves. And that these were two men that worked very hard to make this city and this country better, whether they were a Democrat or they were a Republican or they were independent. What few.
Dee Perry [00:14:41] I got a lot.
Chuck Stokes [00:14:42] I gotta fix these mics.
Dee Perry [00:14:43] Okay, we're gonna.
Chuck Stokes [00:14:44] Oh, my mic.
Dee Perry [00:14:45] Okay, so we talked about your memories. Were there more memories when Carl was in office than maybe beforehand? What was it like for you and your cousins? Did life change there? Because there was- I mean, it was a tough time for Carl, what was going on with the city. And, you know, some people liked him, some people didn't. Tell me about that experience for your family during that time?
Chuck Stokes [00:15:09] Tremendous amount of pride. We knew it was a hard job, but we also knew that he was trying to do what he felt was right. And people I found were very respectful, I think because of the close knit community that we lived in. Most of the people in the area that we lived around, Shaker, were supportive of Carl and what he was trying to do. And if they weren't, they were at least nice enough not to say anything about it. But when people would find out that you were related, that he was my uncle they usually were very complimentary. And I know he had some fights with the newspaper and fights with the media and all sorts of people, because that was sort of Carl. But that we also understood, and I think people understood that was part of Carl's personality. You know, Carl did some boxing when he was at West Virginia State and. And that really carried over into all the careers that he had. Carl was not content to just sit somewhere quietly in a very studious way, do his job and not rock the boat. If he saw something that he felt was an injustice or something that could be improved. Carl would challenge you and he would challenge you verbally, he would challenge you intellectually. He would challenge you in a very kind of pedestrian campaign, out on the stump type of way. And occasionally if it got too heated of a conversation, Carl was willing to go to blows with you. That was Carl. And his personality in that sense was very different than my dad, but they were committed to the same ideals. And I think he felt as though Cleveland could be better than what it was at that time in terms of city services to all communities, in terms of housing, education. And so I think he wanted to challenge the system that he also felt as though, as the first African American mayor, that I have to deliver for all of the people, but I really had to deliver for the African American community because if they didn't see their lives improving and changing under his leadership, then I think he felt as though his own community would turn on him. And I think it would also suggest to the larger movers and shakers of the community that putting an African American mayor in charge didn't mean anything. And so I think on both levels he felt I have to be a success. But in trying to succeed, he had to challenge the status quo. And that did create some enemies for him. But it was always a sense of pride for us and people. People were supportive. By and large. It was four years, but it was four tough years. And people forget that at that time you had to get elected every two years, not every four years. So you have one year of trying to get something done and then it was one year of raising funds and campaigning. And that's a tough goal. I don't know who could do that these days. And when you stop and think about what he got accomplished in just a four year period of time, I think it was remarkable given the fact that he was a first and his life had to be really done in a glass bowl. And that's hard to do. It's always tougher for the first because there's some things that you can't do that others who come along after you can do because you're being looked upon as the first. It was the same as when Barack Obama became the first African American president. There are things he could say and do that someone coming along after him perhaps would be able to do, but he had to walk a very tight rope there. I mean, can you imagine Barack Obama saying some of the things that Donald Trump says now? I think that would be tough to do, but. But I think he felt as though he did all he could in a four year period of time. And then it was time for Carl to move on, to chase another adventure. And that was Carl's personality. Carl, I think if he got bored with something or felt, I can't do any more with that, then he started looking for that next challenge.
Dee Perry [00:20:25] Now, talking about the stress and of being in office, your dad came next. And your dad wasn't necessarily interested in that congressional position, but he was kind of nudged and talked into it. Tell me about that, your recollection, if you ever talked to your father about that? But you know, the pros and cons and why he finally decided to run?
Chuck Stokes [00:20:52] You're absolutely right. My father was not interested in politics one iota. He admired Carl, he supported Carl, but he felt like, Carl, that's your thing. My love is the law. And so they had to convince him, they being the community, that this is something that would be good for Cleveland and, and good for the country. And Carl had to really work on him and Arnold Pinckney and many others. And there were a bunch of people that I think came to him and said, you're the person to do this because you had done the legal work for the legal challenge of the gerrymandering of that district. So I think dad reluctantly ran, but I think once he started running, he started to enjoy it because Carl and Dad were alike in this sense. They both loved people and they loved public service and they loved working for people, whether it was through law or it was through politics. They were all about people. They could talk on the phone with people for hours and not get bored, and they could do it multiple times a day. They weren't the type who just wanted to get their book and go in the room and be quiet. And when someone called on the phone, it was like, oh, God, I don't want to talk to. No. They relished talking to people and they wanted to help in any way they could. And it came up in a time in which African Americans in particular needed a lot of help, whether it was legally, civil rights, you name it, but he did it. I remember him sitting down with the entire family and asking us what we thought about this, because he was respectful of the fact that he knew it would not only change his life, but it would change our lives. And of course, we were like most kids, dad, whatever you want to do, we're supportive. We'll be here for you in however way we could as kids to be able to help. So we campaigned with them. We did everything that families normally do. When you find your mother or father is getting in political life, it changed our lives a little bit, but our friends were still our friends. And none of us walked around wearing it on our coat sleeve. None of us walked around bragging about who we were or who they were. We just tried to live normal lives because that was their personalities and their temperament. But then Dad's personality was one of the. Being very studious, working really hard on behalf of his constituents, and he wanted to deliver excellent constituent services. He was about that in law, and he was about that in the political arena. And he never wanted to be judged by the color of his skin. He wanted to be judged by the service that he delivered. And so he went to Congress with the attitude of, I don't want to just be seen as a good Black Congressman. I want to be seen as one of the best members of Congress in the country. And I think when he finally left 30 years later, he was in that upper echelon, revered by people, but also by his peers. And I think it was because he put together an excellent staff, and he held his staff to very high standards. You know, they had a rule that somebody called you call them back within 24 hours. And because he would always tell them, you're working for me. You're a reflection of me. And if I'm going to give it 110%, I expect my staff to give it 110%. And he would. He'd get there before the staff in the morning, he'd leave late at night, and he would jump on and off the planes and go wherever he had to do to be able to deliver for his constituents. So I think he learned to enjoy Congress. And he was able. I think he was happiest when he was able to use some of his legal skills and abilities as he chaired various committees in Congress, whether it's the Assassinations Committee or it was the Ethics Committee, he was able to sort of go back and pull on his elements in the courtroom and use those skills. If he was questioning James Earl Ray, Colonel Oliver North, these were- This was Dad back in the courtroom with Norman Minor using those criminal defense attorney skills. So law was always his first love inside of him, that sort of innate ability to be able to do that. But he grew to learn and love the politics. And most of all, he loved Clevelanders and he loved the sound.
Dee Perry [00:26:36] You've talked about the different elements of his skills that help and be successful. But for someone who did not really want to go into the public life like that, if you pick one element, what made him such a successful Congressman?
Chuck Stokes [00:26:53] I think his ability to work with people, no matter where you were philosophically or politically. Charlie Vanik, who preceded him in Congress, told him. He said, lou, if you're going to be successful in this arena in Washington, you have to work with your colleagues on the opposite side of the political aisle. Well, Dad's nature was to work with anybody. He did it in law. He worked with all sorts of people, blacks and whites, when he was active in the bar association. And he had already done so many different things preparing him for that role in Congress. It was just in the legal arena and then it got transferred over. Dad had great friends in Congress. Republicans, Democrats, Conservatives, Liberals. And it was a different time in Washington where they would get on the well of the floor and philosophically challenge each other politically challenge each other. But it was done in a very respectful way, in a gentlemanly way, which I think goes to the book that eventually got named the Gentleman from Ohio. I think that people saw my father as a true gentleman and he was never going to say anything in a disparaging way about you in a personal way. He may challenge where you stood on an issue, but he wasn't going to say anything disrespectful of you or your family. And then they would go out and they'd have drinks together, lunch together, dinner together. They would go on different fact finding commissions together throughout the world. And I think it was his ability to work with people and then realize why he was there. I'm there to deliver whatever I can for my constituents and the city that I represent. And if that means I have to work with somebody who may not share my political point of view one iota, I'm going to find something in there that we have in common that we can work together on. He did it with Jerry Lewis, Congressman from California. He did it from Congressman from down south in Mississippi and Alabama and other places. And they became great friends. They may not have started out that way, but as they Got to know each other and realized that they were there for the same reason is what can you bring home that benefits the people that you represent? And then I think when he got into a leadership position where he was head of a particular committee, he knew and understood that while I'm in this position, I have to help those who may be in the minority party because hands will change. And sure enough, he saw hands change. But when they did change, and he may not have been chairman of a committee anymore, they had worked together so closely and they looked out for each other so much that he could still go to whoever was the chairman and say, look, we need to cut a deal on this, that or the other, and they would work it out.
Dee Perry [00:30:32] Did he ever talk to you about? I mean, obviously over those years he accomplished a lot, but is there something specific that he was most proud of that he ever talked to you about that and what that might be?
Chuck Stokes [00:30:44] Well, dad did a lot during his 30 years, and I think he was proud of a lot. But if he had to single out a couple things, I think one would be what he did in terms of health care. That would be number one, because I think that went directly to the people that he represented, whether they were from the wealthier section of his district or they were from the poorer section of his district. He felt as though health care was a right and not a privilege, and that everybody born into this world had a right to be able to have access to quality health care in America. And so he fought and he fought very hard for that. And I think it was something in him because of how he was raised. Here's a poor kid out of the projects of Cleveland who many would have said, you can never grow up to be a member of the United States Congress. But he reached that position, and he started in a very humble way, and they were poor, but he always felt that should not be an obstacle for where you can end up, and it shouldn't be an obstacle for the type of health care that you should have access to. So I think that was number one in terms of legislatively. I think number two in terms of what gave him great personal satisfaction, was rising to the level to chair some of the different committees that he chaired and doing it in a way that he garnered respect from most people who observed what he did, and the intellect that he used as a result of that and breaking barriers and winning the trust of those who put him in the position to do that. You know, when the speaker of the House, Tip o', Neill, came to him, and said, I want you to chair the House Assassination Committee until the death of Dr. Martin Luther King and President John F. Kennedy. He understood that those two iconic figures in America, one Black, one white, that America had great respect for, and he knew that he had to chair that committee in a way that 50 years after the renderings of that committee that what they did would still stand by the American people. And people could not come back later and say what a sham of a committee that was. They did good work.
Dee Perry [00:33:35] Both your father and your uncle, they felt the need to get involved and serve in political life. Where did that motivation come from? It may not be an obvious one, but where did that motivation come from for them?
Chuck Stokes [00:33:51] My grandmother used to always tell, and she used to always tell us, she used to say, if you're nice to people, people will be nice to you. And I think it was that simple belief and philosophy from a woman who didn't get more than an 8th grade education, but who was very savvy, very streetwise, smart, and understood basic nature of people and America, that you have to be nice to people if you want them to reciprocate in the same way. And because they were raised that type of way, I think that was the basic that they had in both of them. And then they were able to, through the grace of God, work hard, get their education, use the GI Bill to get an education that they could not have paid for themselves, but then use those tools to be able to do the things that they loved doing. At the base of it, they loved people. But then they used law and they used politics and they used journalism, and they used being on the judicial bench, being an ambassador, to be able to help those who are less fortunate. And I think they saw that as their mission in life. Part of it, I don't know, it's just something that I guess they were born with. And they were able to take those raw tools and skills that they had and refine them to a way that they could rise to very important positions and be able to give back to people. They enjoyed their careers. They were very close. Dad and Uncle Carl, they worked together in all sorts of ways. Carl was the political tactician, dad was the scholar. Dad didn't like jumping from one career to another career and, you know, five years later, do something else. He said, I'm going to get in, I'm going to learn how Congress works and I'm going to work my way up through the system. And 30 years later, I'm going to get the highest award that they bestow not because I'm seeking that award, but because of how I. I did the job when I was there. Carl was more of, I want to break this barrier or that barrier. I want to open up this door, I want to open up that door, and I'll do it however I can do it. Carl was. Carl was sort of that pugilist. You know, he used like Muhammad Ali. He used the various boxing skills he could to be able to accomplish the things. Dad was sort of like someone who plays checkers or chess. He enjoyed the competition, but he was going to use his intellect to sort of outsmart you or strategize and figure out how to accomplish the same things. He got his political skills from Carl, and they would sit down and strategize together. But whenever Carl really needed something, good advice from a legal standpoint, he got it from dad. I'll tell you a quick funny story. I remember we were sitting around, it was Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner, and Carl was asking my dad about this legal case or that legal case and something that a ruling that the U.S. supreme Court had made. And finally my Aunt Shirley turned to Carl and she said, carl, why are you always asking Billy? That was my dad's nickname. Why are you always asking Billy about these legal cases and Supreme Court cases? He said, you went to law school, Carl. In his own kind of charismatic way, he said, this man reads every judicial case that comes out. Now, there's really no sense in both of us reading it. And that was Carl. You know, he was going to take the shortcut to be able to get there. But they had great respect for each other and they knew each other's expertise.
Dee Perry [00:38:39] You know, we all- We know your dad as being a Congressman, a man who served and did a lot of great things. Tell me about him as a person? What made Louis Stokes special as a person?
Chuck Stokes [00:38:50] He was a wonderful father. He loved the kids. He didn't have a father in the sense that someone who grew up with him. He had a father, but his father died at such a young age that he never had the benefit of a father raising him. So Grandmother did all of the raising, and he was only three when his father passed away. And so it was very important to Dad to- When I came along as the only son, he loved the girls, he loved all of us equally. But there was a special, I think, little relationship that we had because he said, this is my little boy, and I want to be able to have that special father-son relationship. And we did. We went to the Cleveland Browns football games. We went to the championship game that they won in 1964. And I was freezing and he put his arms around me and it was snowy and it was cold. And so I remember that. But I also remember going down to Ohio State University. It was another wet day. It was a wet day, not so much cold. And I remember he took me to back to the hotel and put me in the tub and, you know, made sure I had a hot bath and made sure I didn't catch a cold. And we would go to the double hitter Saturday night football games. And so he enjoyed sports. He particularly loved boxing. You know, he loved Ali and Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson and all of these great fighters. And I think that was sort of an outlet for him, you know, to get him away from when he was working real hard at the law and all those other things that commanded his attention. But he was into family. He was always there for the important events in our life. Even with his very demanding schedule. You know, if it was a graduation, if it was a wedding, if it was whatever, it was really important. He was there for us. He was a great provider. And while he loved the kids, he really loved the grandkids. You know, shortly before he passed away, I remember coming to Cleveland and my wife and I came in and he saw us and his face lit up that we were there. And then the grandkids came in and it went up a whole 'nother notch. It was kind of like, you know, okay, we're done with you kids now. The grandkids are here. He worked hard. He wanted to make sure that he was a wonderful provider and he was a wonderful father for all of us. And he was always there. And he was a down to earth person. He was very humble. He never sat around talking about his accomplishments. I learned more from reading my father's book about how he accomplished the things he did than through my father sitting around telling us how he got things through Congress or he got certain things done for Clevelanders, you know. You know, I knew the big story. I knew what maybe happened, but I didn't know the details. And in the book, I learned a lot of the details because that's the type of person he didn't spend time bragging about himself and talking about himself. To him, that was being braggadocio and that wasn't his nature. So I learned a lot. Even though I lived with him all those years, there are things I didn't know.
Dee Perry [00:42:57] I think. Is your phone buzzing?
Chuck Stokes [00:42:59] I think it was. I think it was the vibrate. I'm sorry.
Dee Perry [00:43:02] A couple more questions for you.
Chuck Stokes [00:43:03] Let me make sure it's like, off off. Sorry about that.
Dee Perry [00:43:07] That's okay. I wasn't sure about it was mine at first.
Chuck Stokes [00:43:11] Yeah, I thought it was good. It did. It wasn't on ring. It was on. It was on vibrate.
Dee Perry [00:43:15] Okay.
Chuck Stokes [00:43:15] Okay.
Dee Perry [00:43:16] Get a little bit of water.
Chuck Stokes [00:43:18] I'll take one little sip, and I'm good.
Dee Perry [00:43:19] You're doing great. I just have-
Chuck Stokes [00:43:20] Is this okay? Okay.
Dee Perry [00:43:21] I'll keep you too long here.
Chuck Stokes [00:43:22] We do have time here. You're fine. My time is your time.
Dee Perry [00:43:27] Let's talk about the legacy of your father and Carl and what it means to the next generation. You know, maybe to what to folks today and what you think it might mean to the folks of tomorrow.
Chuck Stokes [00:43:46] I think the legacy for Dad is - and Carl - was one of serving people, getting your education, and then making the most of the skills that you have. He would always say, education will help open up a door for you, but it won't keep you there if you don't work hard, if you don't get to work on time, if you don't put in good full day's work and hard work, and if you don't use your intellect to the best of your ability. And he would always stress to us, don't forget where you came from. Don't forget those who are trying to get to where you may be, reach back and help somebody else. That was what they were all about. And I think he also. He was really proud of the fact that he would say, a lot of times, I have great kids. I never had to go get any of them out of jail. I never had to do anything. They never did anything that caused me great embarrassment. And we were just being kids. But I think for him, it was important for as hard as he worked and as hard as my mother worked in raising us, that we always be good role models for the family. And they wouldn't spend a lot of time saying, do this, don't do this, don't do this, don't do that. I think it was just sort of instilled that we knew that what they did was important, and they worked hard to do it. And they expected more of the next generation not to necessarily follow them into their careers or to try to outdo what they had done in an historical way. But whatever profession you picked, try to be the best at your profession. And they just wanted us to be happy and secure. And I think if we did those things, then they were happy. And we understood the historical role that both of them play. And I think the best thing we can do now, now that both of them are gone, is to try to instill in our own children what they were about and to know their history. And all of them have taken time to read dad's book, and Carl's book was published a little earlier, when the grandkids weren't even around yet. But hopefully they've taken time to go back and read his book and find out more about their lives. They come to many of the wonderful events that Cleveland has planned and has been involved with as many as they can. So they understand what their father and their uncle were all about. And I think each of them have taken it into their various professions and have done a marvelous job. And they're doing an array of careers, whether it's the National Science Foundation or teaching development officers for universities, law. It's a lot of different professions that they're representing out there now. But all of them are doing great jobs. And one of them is even taking it into the sports realm and then, of course, journalism as well. So it's a lot of different professions. And I think they just feel like, do a good, honest day's work. Rise to the highest you can in your field, and have fun doing it.
Dee Perry [00:48:15] Let me just ask you one more. The city this year has kind of come together to commemorate your father and your uncle with this project, and it's going to be a longstanding exhibit when everything is finished. What does that mean to you and your family to see the recognition, to see this?
Chuck Stokes [00:48:38] I am so proud of this town that they have remembered my father and my uncle and the people that they worked with because they couldn't get anything done by themselves. It was a whole boatload of people that worked for them, worked with them, worked on their behalf to make Cleveland the great city that it is. And when I ride into town and I come around Stokes Boulevard, which gives us great pride to see that street sign, or as I came Downtown today, and I look up and I see the banners hanging up commemorating the 50th anniversary of Uncle Carl's election. And then dad coupled with him because two years later he went into Congress. And to see that all over this city, it puts chills inside of you. And the nice thing is you say this town hasn't forgotten. They're not around anymore, but this town really appreciated what these two men did who rose from very, very humble beginnings to great heights. And these are two men who were comfortable in the streets. And I also say they were comfortable in the suites so no matter where they went, they could relate to people. And so I thank Tri-C and Dr. Johnson and Professor Anki and all of the people who have touched this, that the effort that they've put into it in the corporate community, and how they've reached out to the citizens. The average person to be able to say, this is our history, this is our legacy, and we aren't going to forget it and we're going to celebrate it and we're going to make sure that it's passed on to that next generation. I think it's- I think you guys have set the role model for many other cities across the nation. I hope Detroit's watching.
Dee Perry [00:51:01] That should do it. Anything else?
Chuck Stokes [00:51:02] We didn't talk about that.
Dee Perry [00:51:04] You think you covered a lot?
Chuck Stokes [00:51:05] I don't think so. You guys did great. My question.
Dee Perry [00:51:09] Yep.
Chuck Stokes [00:51:12] No, I can't. I don't know. I think hopefully we covered a lot of ground.
Dee Perry [00:51:17] I think we're good. No, thank you for your time.
Chuck Stokes [00:51:19] Thank you for great questions.
Dee Perry [00:51:20] I mean, I know this was a little-
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