Emil Wagner was born in 1938 in Landshut, Germany, but moved to Eger (now Cheb), Czechoslovakia. At the start of the war, he and his family were forced to evacuate to Vilsbiburg, Germany, where he remained until the age of nineteen, when he immigrated to the United States. This interview details his struggle to adjust to life in Cleveland, serving in the military, becoming a member of the Donauschwaben, and working as a master cabinetmaker.


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Wagner, Emil (interviewee)


Franklin, Bill (interviewer)


Cleveland German-American Oral History Project



Document Type

Oral History


44 minutes


Bill Franklin [00:00:03] So my name is Bill Franklin, and today is March the 4th, two thousand twenty one, and we're interviewing Emil Wagner. That's correct, right Mr. Wagner?

Emil Wagner [00:00:18] Yeah that's correct.

Bill Franklin [00:00:19] Good. So the first thing I wanted to ask you was where where are you from? What was your hometown?

Emil Wagner [00:00:29] I am from Germany, from-

Erika Wagner [00:00:32] Landshut.

Emil Wagner [00:00:32] I was born in Landshut.

Bill Franklin [00:00:35] In what city?

Emil Wagner [00:00:37] Landshut

Bill Franklin [00:00:40] How do you spell that?

Erika Wagner [00:00:41] L A N D S H U T

Bill Franklin [00:00:47] Landshut. OK, very good. All righty.

Erika Wagner [00:00:53] Landshut.

Bill Franklin [00:00:53] And um, why why did why did you leave? Were were you drafted into the army or?

Emil Wagner [00:01:00] No, I left because where it was it wasn't very good over there at the time. It was very bad after the war.

Bill Franklin [00:01:08] I see how old how old were you when you left?

Emil Wagner [00:01:13] I was 19.

Bill Franklin [00:01:16] Good. And where did you go from Landshut, where was your destination?

Emil Wagner [00:01:24] Well, I was in Vilsbiburg for that's where I grew up then later on.

Bill Franklin [00:01:34] What town is that?

Emil Wagner [00:01:35] Vilsbiburg

Erika Wagner [00:01:37] V I L S

Bill Franklin [00:01:39] I'm sorry, what was that?

Erika Wagner [00:01:41] V as in victory. V I L S B U R G no B I B U R G

Bill Franklin [00:01:50] B U R G? OK, very good.

Erika Wagner [00:01:52] V I L S B I B U R G. That's where he grew up and that's where he left from to come to America.

Bill Franklin [00:01:59] I see. And how long were you in the Vilsbiburg?

Emil Wagner [00:02:03] Until we were. Since I was about six years, seven years old, 17 or 19.

Bill Franklin [00:02:18] So um you were-

Erika Wagner [00:02:20] It's Vilsbiburg, it's there's a B I in the middle there too. Vilsbiburg.

Bill Franklin [00:02:28] Oh how do you spell that? Sorry.

Erika Wagner [00:02:29] V I L S B I B U R G

Bill Franklin [00:02:35] Ah OK, good.

Erika Wagner [00:02:38] Thank you.

Bill Franklin [00:02:38] Thank you again. So you left Landshut when you were 19?

Emil Wagner [00:02:44] No, my my father used to work on the railroad. He was a conducter on the railroad and we got transferred from there.

Erika Wagner [00:02:54] From Landshut.

Emil Wagner [00:02:55] From Landshut into Eger Czechoslovakia. I guess right now, it's called Cheb. And those days that used to be called Eger.

Bill Franklin [00:03:08] Eger?

Erika Wagner [00:03:12] And in World War Two, you had to, you were, evacuate.

Bill Franklin [00:03:15] And when he got transferred to, did you go with him or was that?

Emil Wagner [00:03:22] Yeah, we we went there we lived there. That's were I started school first grade.

Bill Franklin [00:03:28] I see.

Emil Wagner [00:03:29] But then after the war.

Erika Wagner [00:03:29] The city was bombed out during the war

Emil Wagner [00:03:33] And that's when we had to leave.

Bill Franklin [00:03:37] Uh huh.

Erika Wagner [00:03:38] And went to Vilsbiburg.

Emil Wagner [00:03:40] Well, I went Geisenhausen.

Erika Wagner [00:03:44] Well it doesn't matter.

Emil Wagner [00:03:44] Oh okay.

Bill Franklin [00:03:45] And then when you were in Vilsbiburg, how long were you there?

Emil Wagner [00:03:50] In Czechoslovakia?

Bill Franklin [00:03:53] Ah, yeah, what town was that in Czechoslovakia? What was the name of that?

Erika Wagner [00:03:58] E G E R Eger

Bill Franklin [00:04:03] E G E R?

Erika Wagner [00:04:04] E G E R.

Bill Franklin [00:04:04] OK? Yeah, and you were there for how long?

Emil Wagner [00:04:11] Probably for about the same time was my mother passed away so it was about three years I would say. Four years.

Erika Wagner [00:04:23] Till 1945, right?

Emil Wagner [00:04:25] Yeah till 1945 when the war was over.

Bill Franklin [00:04:28] Wow.

Emil Wagner [00:04:29] And there were. Well, we had, we had been over to. My stepmother's brother visited them, that was the last train we got out of there.

Bill Franklin [00:04:43] Wow.

Emil Wagner [00:04:45] And after that, the whole railroad station was bombed.

Bill Franklin [00:04:50] Gee.

Emil Wagner [00:04:50] It was just there was nothing left.

Bill Franklin [00:04:54] Wow, so you were pretty young when your when your mom passed away?

Emil Wagner [00:04:59] Yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:05:00] You was four right?

Emil Wagner [00:05:01] Yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:05:02] He was four.

Bill Franklin [00:05:04] Four years old, my. I'm sorry, that was... So your dad remarried and you had a stepmother.

Erika Wagner [00:05:12] Right.

Emil Wagner [00:05:12] Yeah.

Bill Franklin [00:05:16] And how how was your stay in Vilsbiburg then, was that um, traumatic?

Emil Wagner [00:05:25] It was a house.

Erika Wagner [00:05:27] Rented house.

Emil Wagner [00:05:29] From the railroad, really.

Erika Wagner [00:05:31] A road house.

Emil Wagner [00:05:34] And we used to live here before. But, my, my, my older brothers, they were born in that house. And we used to live there and I mean he got lands for it. In Landshut my father bought a house. And well we got lands for it again, so it got sold. And after that, we came back. My grandmother used to live in the house in the old one in Vilsbiburg. And that's where we moved back into.

Erika Wagner [00:06:07] But it was a rented house. It was from the railroad.

Emil Wagner [00:06:10] It was from the railroad it was rented from them.

Bill Franklin [00:06:14] So you had family then in Vils- Vilsbiburg?

Emil Wagner [00:06:19] Yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:06:19] A grandmother.

Bill Franklin [00:06:21] I'm sure that must have helped.

Erika Wagner [00:06:23] And you were there, how old? When did, when did you start there? You were there about two years in Geisenhausen?

Emil Wagner [00:06:31] Yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:06:31] So about at age eight, right?

Emil Wagner [00:06:35] Eight yeah. No seven, seven.

Erika Wagner [00:06:36] Like in about 1947 or so, they moved then to Vilsbiburg to to join the grandmother there to.

Bill Franklin [00:06:46] 1947. What year were you born?

Emil Wagner [00:06:48] 1938.

Bill Franklin [00:06:50] 1938. OK. And then you were four years old when you when you landed in Eger.

Emil Wagner [00:07:01] Yeah.

Bill Franklin [00:07:04] So that was about 1942 or so.

Erika Wagner [00:07:08] Yeah.

Bill Franklin [00:07:12] And did you did you live with your grandmother in Vilsbiburg?

Emil Wagner [00:07:19] Mhm no, when I get back to Vilsbiburg, where we're, uh, living all together again.

Bill Franklin [00:07:28] I see

Erika Wagner [00:07:29] Yeah, with the grandmother, right?

Emil Wagner [00:07:30] With the grandmother in the house.

Bill Franklin [00:07:32] Uh huh.

Emil Wagner [00:07:34] I had two older brothers. And I had one sister from my mother, yet.

Bill Franklin [00:07:44] I see

Emil Wagner [00:07:45] And then after that I had four sisters from my stepmother.

Bill Franklin [00:07:48] Jeez. And everybody made it out OK?

Emil Wagner [00:07:56] Yeah, we made it out OK, but like I said, we saw the planes coming in at the time.

Bill Franklin [00:08:01] I'll bet yeah.

Emil Wagner [00:08:04] It wasn't the first bombing I saw a lot of bombings in Eger. Because they were trying to go and hit the train station a lot of time, but they have everything around.

Bill Franklin [00:08:16] I wasn't, it wasn't as accurate bombing as it is now. So Eger was in Czechoslovakia and that was a railroad hub?

Erika Wagner [00:08:30] It was a-

Emil Wagner [00:08:30] Yeah

Erika Wagner [00:08:30] It was a railroad hub.

Emil Wagner [00:08:34] It was a big one, you know.

Bill Franklin [00:08:35] Yeah. And after you left Vilsbiburg, where did you go from there?

Emil Wagner [00:08:45] Well, I was there and I learned a trade. My brother, my brother, in the meantime, moved to America, came to America and he was here and he told me to go and learn a trade and come over here. Things were bad over there. I was just going someplace, anywhere. I always had planned to go to South Africa.

Bill Franklin [00:09:05] Really?

Erika Wagner [00:09:06] His family, but they, his family had no money.

Emil Wagner [00:09:13] They were very hard times.

Bill Franklin [00:09:14] Yeah, I could imagine. And was your dad able to work during the war or what did your dad do?

Emil Wagner [00:09:25] My dad during the war, yeah, he was, he was on the railroad conductor. And after the war, he didn't have a job. Because they had to go, and be

Erika Wagner [00:09:42] He was a party member-

Emil Wagner [00:09:43] A party member.

Erika Wagner [00:09:43] Because he worked for the railroad.

Emil Wagner [00:09:46] You had to be a party member to have a job over there at that time period. And after that, they had to go to court and everything. And that got delayed for a long, long time.

Erika Wagner [00:09:57] You have then, the unpartied, so to speak, to have them cancel their party membership.

Bill Franklin [00:10:03] Right.

Emil Wagner [00:10:04] He got he got back and he was back in the railroad, again, in, that was 1957, he got back in there. And all the other times, he was just

Erika Wagner [00:10:20] doing manual labor,

Emil Wagner [00:10:23] Just trying to go and pick up whatever he could.

Bill Franklin [00:10:25] Right, right. How did your brother make it to America? Did you have any other relatives here that sponsored him or?

Emil Wagner [00:10:32] No he ran with a friend.

Erika Wagner [00:10:34] With another family,

Emil Wagner [00:10:36] With another family. That came from Hungaria.

Erika Wagner [00:10:42] They were from Hungary, the other family. And they

Emil Wagner [00:10:45] were German descent from Hungary

Erika Wagner [00:10:48] And because said, because they were evicted, evicted from Hungary, they it was easier for them to get immigration status and they took him along. They took Emil's brother long because it was a large family-.

Bill Franklin [00:11:02] I see.

Erika Wagner [00:11:03] And they didn't really have enough money for all the kids anyway.

Bill Franklin [00:11:09] And you kept in contact with him, he was able to, you were able to communicate, and he was?

Emil Wagner [00:11:15] Yeah, well, he was in the American army. Matter of fact he was stationed in Landshut.

Bill Franklin [00:11:25] Is that right? Wow. You came full circle.

Emil Wagner [00:11:28] He was.

Erika Wagner [00:11:28] He was drafted and then he ended up being stationed in the same town where Emil was born

Emil Wagner [00:11:34] It was only about 15 miles, 15 miles away from Vilsbiburg.

Erika Wagner [00:11:40] Where the family was living.

Bill Franklin [00:11:43] That must have been an advantage for him to speak German and to be stationed over there.

Erika Wagner [00:11:48] Yeah, it was.

Emil Wagner [00:11:51] That's where I wanted to go when I was in the service.

Bill Franklin [00:11:57] I bet.

Emil Wagner [00:11:57] But I wound up in Korea. Little did they know.

Bill Franklin [00:12:03] So were you able to come over to America before your dad?

Emil Wagner [00:12:10] No I was just the only one then. To my brother.

Erika Wagner [00:12:15] His father and his, the rest of the family stayed in Germany.

Emil Wagner [00:12:17] Yeah they stayed, they stayed in Germany.

Bill Franklin [00:12:18] Oh they did.

Emil Wagner [00:12:20] They passed away three months after I left.

Bill Franklin [00:12:20] Really?

Erika Wagner [00:12:24] Yeah, he was heartbroken that Emil left.

Bill Franklin [00:12:27] Wow. That must have been tough to to separate. And were you able to go back to Germany to visit your your siblings?

Emil Wagner [00:12:45] Oh yeah, I've been back. We've been back quite often.

Bill Franklin [00:12:51] So when you came to America, how old were you?

Emil Wagner [00:12:55] I was 19.

Bill Franklin [00:12:57] You were 19 when you came to the States. And what did you do when you. So when you were 19, that was about 1957, you came over?

Emil Wagner [00:13:11] Fifty eight.

Bill Franklin [00:13:12] Fifty eight?

Emil Wagner [00:13:14] Yeah.

Bill Franklin [00:13:14] And how did what where did you go to school from? Like junior high and high school?

Emil Wagner [00:13:24] No I didn't go to any high school.

Bill Franklin [00:13:25] No high school.

Erika Wagner [00:13:27] He finished eighth grade in Germany and then he had

Both: Speaker 3 and Emil Wagner [00:13:30] to learn a trade.

Bill Franklin [00:13:31] Oh you learned a trade, OK. And what trade-

Erika Wagner [00:13:35] He was working already.

Bill Franklin [00:13:36] What trade did you did you learn?

Emil Wagner [00:13:39] I was a cabinetmaker, cabinetry.

Bill Franklin [00:13:39] Oh really?

Emil Wagner [00:13:39] Finished cabinetry cabinetmaker. I was a journeyman when I came over here.

Bill Franklin [00:13:46] I see. Uh huh. That's interesting, I had a uncle in London, my family was from England, and he was also a cabinetmaker.

Emil Wagner [00:13:58] Yeah.

Bill Franklin [00:13:58] It was kind of a family business. So did you, was that still useful when you came to America?

Emil Wagner [00:14:09] Yeah, that's what I did over here. For the rest of my life.

Bill Franklin [00:14:15] Is that right? Did you work for a company or were you on your own?

Emil Wagner [00:14:21] Oh different companies.

Bill Franklin [00:14:23] Different ones?

Emil Wagner [00:14:23] Yeah. From high rise buildings to cabinet drops and you name it.

Bill Franklin [00:14:33] Yeah, it's quite a skill. And so how did you find life in in America? How did you come to Cleveland, of all places?

Emil Wagner [00:14:49] My brother lived here.

Bill Franklin [00:14:50] Oh he did?

Emil Wagner [00:14:53] Yeah, that's why I came to Cleveland.

Bill Franklin [00:14:55] I see. And was your brother also a cabinetmaker or did he?

Emil Wagner [00:15:00] Yes, he was.

Bill Franklin [00:15:04] And you were probably, in business together or closely associated?

Emil Wagner [00:15:09] No we were not.

Erika Wagner [00:15:12] Ever worked at the same place?

Emil Wagner [00:15:14] We worked only for about, when I came over here, about one year at the same place.

Bill Franklin [00:15:21] Is that right?

Emil Wagner [00:15:22] Yeah.

Bill Franklin [00:15:27] And you said he was older. Is he still alive?

Emil Wagner [00:15:31] Yeah, he's about five and a half years older.

Bill Franklin [00:15:34] Oh, I see. Good.

Erika Wagner [00:15:40] Yeah he lives here in Cleveland.

Emil Wagner [00:15:42] He's still living.

Bill Franklin [00:15:44] Very good. And how did how did you find Cleveland? Was it a culture shock for you to come to America? Was it an adjustment?

Emil Wagner [00:15:55] No, it really wasn't because we belonged to some German. My brother used to belong to some German groups. And I got in there immediately with everything. So, even the language was no barrier, because you all spoke German.

Erika Wagner [00:16:12] What about at work though?

Emil Wagner [00:16:17] At work they spoke German most of them. Most of them and uh when I learned English, that was in the service. That's the kind of English I learned. You just sometimes never get it good.

Erika Wagner [00:16:33] He was drafted, in when was it? Nineteen-.

Emil Wagner [00:16:34] Sixty one.

Erika Wagner [00:16:36] 1961 he was drafted.

Bill Franklin [00:16:37] In 1961. So were you in Korea or. That was over already. It was just before Vietnam.

Erika Wagner [00:16:48] Yes.

Emil Wagner [00:16:48] It was just before Vietnam, yeah.

Bill Franklin [00:16:54] And how long were you in the service?

Emil Wagner [00:16:56] Only for two years.

Bill Franklin [00:16:58] That's good. And then you came back to Cleveland again and picked up where you left off?

Emil Wagner [00:17:08] Yes.

Erika Wagner [00:17:08] But didn't you when you first came, didn't you have to take a class English in at the, ah, evening classes?

Emil Wagner [00:17:17] Yeah, a couple of times. Yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:17:19] Yeah, that was very, very typical in those days, that when a new immigrant came over, you had to go over and take English classes at evening school. I think that was over at John Hay.

Emil Wagner [00:17:32] Yeah, I don't, I don't remember.

Erika Wagner [00:17:33] I'm not sure.

Bill Franklin [00:17:35] Right.

Erika Wagner [00:17:36] On east side.

Emil Wagner [00:17:38] No it wasn't east side. It was west side.

Erika Wagner [00:17:38] On west- east a hundred- was it?

Emil Wagner [00:17:40] Yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:17:42] So there were a lot of classes, English as a second language days.

Bill Franklin [00:17:48] That's good. So you were already an American citizen. But these classes were after the citizenship test?

Emil Wagner [00:17:55] No.

Erika Wagner [00:17:56] No, he was not a citizen at that time. He wasn't a citizen when he was drafted even.

Bill Franklin [00:18:01] Really?

Erika Wagner [00:18:02] Uh huh.

Emil Wagner [00:18:03] No. No, I did have to sign up for it before I came over here.

Bill Franklin [00:18:07] Oh, I see.

Erika Wagner [00:18:08] Sign up for the draft before he came to America.

Emil Wagner [00:18:11] So, either way, then, if not in the German service. I would have been here, so either way, there was no way around.

Bill Franklin [00:18:18] Yeah. That's interesting. And you met your your spouse then at one of the German clubs. I assume.

Emil Wagner [00:18:32] German clubs?

Erika Wagner [00:18:34] Yeah.

Emil Wagner [00:18:35] Well, I mean, we were in the dance group, which we still are.

Emil Wagner [00:18:40] He met, we met, in late in 1958, in August I think.

Emil Wagner [00:18:45] Yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:18:46] Right. So and I tried I helped him learn English also. We always talked in English so that he would learn English. And then we were, he was-. We were in the German groups together.

Bill Franklin [00:19:05] Very good. And then you got married pretty soon after you met 1958?

Erika Wagner [00:19:16] No. 1962 after he was in the Army.

Bill Franklin [00:19:19] Ah, OK.

Erika Wagner [00:19:22] 1962, when he was after he was drafted.

Bill Franklin [00:19:27] Yeah. So you kind of had a different experience then Erica.

Erika Wagner [00:19:36] Yes.

Bill Franklin [00:19:38] As far as coming to the states. And we were talking to Erika and she's telling us about some of the traditions that you still you still carry over and you still have connections to. Right? You still belong to some of the German clubs and have connections to Donauschwaben and that that community.

Erika Wagner [00:20:09] Right. Actually, he's one of the volunteers over at the Donauschwaben Club. Now they the retired people, retired men, come over there once a week to work and do odd jobs and clean up and stuff.

Bill Franklin [00:20:24] Oh, very good. Do you do any cabinetry work at Donauschwaben?

Emil Wagner [00:20:30] Repairing and stuff like that, repairing and whatever, whatever comes up.

Erika Wagner [00:20:33] Remodeling

Bill Franklin [00:20:35] Ah, very good. I'm sure that's a big help for them. Very good.

Emil Wagner [00:20:42] There's always, something like something to do in a big place like that.

Bill Franklin [00:20:47] Yeah, I'm sure they'll keep you busy. And you say you've been back to Germany quite often since since you've been here

Emil Wagner [00:20:59] Yeah, especially with the later years, yeah.

Bill Franklin [00:21:02] Uh huh,

Erika Wagner [00:21:03] Just the class reunion's.

Emil Wagner [00:21:06] The first time when I came over here that was, ah OK since 58 I guess. The first time, we went over it was in what 70?

Erika Wagner [00:21:13] When we went back in 70. Yeah, we went back.

Emil Wagner [00:21:15] 1970 was the first time.

Erika Wagner [00:21:17] Maybe, no before that. In sixty-, sixty nine.

Emil Wagner [00:21:21] Sixty, no, sixty nine yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:21:23] In 1969, we were over there.

Bill Franklin [00:21:26] And was, was that in West Germany or?

Emil Wagner [00:21:29] Yeah, it was West Germany.

Erika Wagner [00:21:30] Bavaria.

Bill Franklin [00:21:30] It was West Germany?

Erika Wagner [00:21:32] Vilsbiburg is in Bavaria.

Emil Wagner [00:21:34] I was afraid to go to East Germany

Bill Franklin [00:21:37] I could imagine.

Emil Wagner [00:21:40] But after they open up the wall, we've been over there a few times

Bill Franklin [00:21:46] And I'm sure you've noticed a lot of changes since. You were you've been here and when you left.

Emil Wagner [00:21:54] Boy, it's all different. I mean, the town is expanding on everything else, you know, it's different. Except for delaying the treatment that changed.

Bill Franklin [00:22:09] Is that right?

Emil Wagner [00:22:11] Oh yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:22:12] He went for several reunions over there from his school. From his elementary school.

Bill Franklin [00:22:19] Uh huh. And, do you do you feel any homesickness or anything as far as-.

Emil Wagner [00:22:38] No.

Bill Franklin [00:22:38] When you go back, do you feel like you're you're missing out?

Emil Wagner [00:22:41] No. It's nice over there, but living over there is going to be a different story again.

Bill Franklin [00:22:46] Yeah.

Emil Wagner [00:22:46] It's different, you know?

Erika Wagner [00:22:47] The culture has changed.

Emil Wagner [00:22:48] It changed so much. It's nice to go back and see things, but it's not the same anymore.

Erika Wagner [00:23:00] We really enjoy ourselves, when we go over there, because we go to places where they have traditional music and traditional dancing, but the young people all like the American stuff. They like American music on the radio and they like like to do modern stuff. So when we go over there, we go back to the old traditional ways.

Bill Franklin [00:23:22] Yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:23:22] But it is it is it is enjoyable to go back and see the old landscapes and the buildings. It's it really is nice.

Bill Franklin [00:23:33] Right. Right. So when you say that the culture is different, it became more westernized and more-

Erika Wagner [00:23:40] More American.

Bill Franklin [00:23:40] Or it became globalized, really.

Emil Wagner [00:23:44] It's I don't know, it's, it's altogether different.

Erika Wagner [00:23:47] It's more Americanized.

Bill Franklin [00:23:49] More Americanized. Interesting. And. That's basically about all the questions I have. Are there any stories that you'd like to relate as far as family, family connections or family stories that you remember in Germany growing up that, that stand out? I know you were pretty young, but.

Emil Wagner [00:24:25] Well, nothing really.

Erika Wagner [00:24:28] Well, when he was-.

Emil Wagner [00:24:29] You remember some things about the war and bombing, yet when we watched the planes and things and. We saw a lot of dog fights.

Bill Franklin [00:24:41] Is that right?

Erika Wagner [00:24:41] Of the airplanes.

Emil Wagner [00:24:41] Oh yeah. From the airplanes, you know. And they had like a couple a couple of German jets and they always, when the thing came in they came in. Well later on the problem was they didn't have any gasoline.

Erika Wagner [00:24:57] The Germans had no gasoline, yeah.

Emil Wagner [00:25:00] So that's what probably broke the back, which was good.

Bill Franklin [00:25:06] Yeah. Did you have, I'm sure you had like air raid drills and things like that when you have the bombings.

Emil Wagner [00:25:16] We had those, yeah.

Bill Franklin [00:25:16] That must have been quite frightening at that age.

Emil Wagner [00:25:19] Yeah, it it's another story.

Erika Wagner [00:25:24] Yeah, it was. And, you know, when over there, you know, about I don't know if you know that much about the trades and how they have to learn their trades, but, you know, when you were when he was 14, right?

Emil Wagner [00:25:41] Yeah.

Erika Wagner [00:25:41] When he was 14, he left home. No?

Emil Wagner [00:25:45] No.

Erika Wagner [00:25:45] He had to go and work at-

Emil Wagner [00:25:47] Had to work, like, like, go to work in the corner shop and you learned your trade and.

Erika Wagner [00:25:55] Did you have to live there with the?

Emil Wagner [00:25:57] No, I didn't. I didn't have to live there because it was in the same town, but some other they were from a little farther away. They lived together at the same place.

Erika Wagner [00:26:06] They had to live at the at the employer's place. Or the,

Emil Wagner [00:26:09] Employer's place the church, yeah. And.

Bill Franklin [00:26:13] I see.

Emil Wagner [00:26:13] You got about five mark, five marks a week. For about 45, 50, for the 45, 50 hours.

Erika Wagner [00:26:23] Of work.

Emil Wagner [00:26:23] Of work.

Bill Franklin [00:26:24] Yeah.

Emil Wagner [00:26:26] The second year you got 10 marks and the third year you got

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