Abstract

Reinhold Federmann was born in 1939 in Kischker, Yugoslavia. His father was a baker. Federmann was five years old when his family fled Kischker in 1944. He describes his journey from Kischker to Flattnitz Austria and his eventual placement in a refugee camp in Salfelden, Austria. His family was then placed with a farmer near Salzburg, Austria, where they stayed for four years. When the refugee camp in Salzburg dissolved in 1950, his family was placed in another camp in Maxglan, Austria, where they stayed for six years. Federman describes his journey to the U.S. in 1956, eventually ending up in Cleveland. He was not as active in the German community in his younger days, especially after marrying an American of German descent. However, today he is a regular attendee at the German American Cultural Center and German Central in the Cleveland area.

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Interviewee

Federmann, Reinhold (interviewee)

Interviewer

Welker, Michael (interviewer)

Project

Cleveland German-American Oral History Project

Date

6-5-2019

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

48 minutes

Transcript

Mike Welker [00:00:01] OK, this is June 5th, 2019. My name is Mike Walker. I am interviewing Reinhold Federmann. He is going to tell us a little bit about his background and his journey to the Cleveland area and his involvement with the club. OK, Mr. Federmann, first thing we're going to first thing we're going to talk about is where you were from. You mentioned your hometown. And if you could say that again,

Reinhold Federmann [00:00:28] Kischker that's in what used to be Yugoslavia, but Kischker is actually a Hungarian name because at one time it was part of Hungary during the time of the Austrian empire when all of that was part of the Austrian empire.

Mike Welker [00:00:43] OK, and how old how long did you live there? How old were you when you left.

Reinhold Federmann [00:00:47] I was born in 1939 and we left Kischker, we fled Kischker in 1944 in October.

Mike Welker [00:00:54] OK.

Reinhold Federmann [00:00:55] That's when the the German occupation troops evacuated Yugoslavia. And the recommendation was that for all German nationals, ethnic Germans to also evacuate. So we did. Not everybody did, but we did. And we're actually very glad we did. The stories that we heard from people that stayed were not very good stories to tell.

Mike Welker [00:01:21] So what do you remember about Kischker? Can you tell me a little bit about?

Reinhold Federmann [00:01:24] Well, Kischker actually, it's a very nice place. I went back to visit back in 2012, my wife and I and my one sister. And, you know, it was it's a planned city that was created in, I think, in 1786. And so the streets are very well laid out, all the houses had fairly good sized property with them so that people could have a vegetable garden, a fruit orchard for the family just use to provide for the family. And most people also kept small animals, chickens, geese, ducks, goats, pigs. Some people also had a cow or two for fresh milk.

Mike Welker [00:02:13] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:02:13] And the people who the farmers who had horses, they typically would also have a horse stall and have a horse and wagon. We did not. My father was a baker.

Mike Welker [00:02:23] Oh OK.

Reinhold Federmann [00:02:23] And so but we had small animals, chickens. I don't know if we had any- I don't remember ducks, but we had pigs.

Mike Welker [00:02:33] So I heard a little bit from my mother about the bakery shops. Was he the one where people would also pay to use the ovens to make their own breads?

Reinhold Federmann [00:02:41] Right. Yes. You know, in fact, I think that was probably the majority of the business. People the women would make their own. You know, they make their dough make their bread, let it rise. And then they would bring it for for him to bake in the baking oven. And but then he also did his own thing. He made rolls and bread and so forth for people who didn't do their own stuff.

Mike Welker [00:03:06] Oh OK.

Reinhold Federmann [00:03:06] So. Yeah, and that was a pretty you know, that was actually a pretty hard job because you have to get up pretty early in the morning.

Mike Welker [00:03:14] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:03:15] Fire up the oven to pick it up. You know, you have to heat up the bricks.

Mike Welker [00:03:19] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:03:20] And then they would scrape out the coals and shove in the bread.

Mike Welker [00:03:25] So the heat was mainly from the heated bricks to keep it at a steady temperature.

Reinhold Federmann [00:03:29] Right yes, yeah.

Mike Welker [00:03:31] hmm Interesting.

Reinhold Federmann [00:03:31] So, of course, that often stayed hot for a certain amount of time. But then towards the afternoon, it cooled off, I'm sure.

Mike Welker [00:03:39] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:03:39] And so that was that was his job. He did not have his shop at the house where I lived. We lived actually in my in my mother's father's house. That's what I remember. Because at that time, you know, when my father was gone already, he was with the military then. In 1943 I believe in April of 1943 he, like we say, they joined the German military, but that's a little bit of a, you know, an inaccuracy because there was a tremendous amount of peer pressure. And I know that there are some people who were not very enthusiastic about joining and there was quite a bit of peer pressure. That's according to my mother's story.

Mike Welker [00:04:39] Right. And I heard also, if you didn't join the German military, then you had to join the Hungarian military and they didn't pay as well as the German military did.

Reinhold Federmann [00:04:47] Right. Yes. Yeah. And so, of course, my father did join the German military. And another thing that a lot of people are not aware of is that you were not able to join the Wehrmacht, the German Wehrmacht, in order to be in the German Wehrmacht you had to be a German citizen. We were not German citizens. We were citizens of Yugoslavia.

Mike Welker [00:05:11] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:05:11] So the option that people had were to join the Hungarian military or to join the German Waffen SS. The Waffen SS was a creation of Germany that accepted all nationalities. And there were whole divisions that were different nationality. There was a Scandinavian division that was made up of Swedish and Finnish people, soldiers and so forth. So anyway, the our people, the ethnic Germans from Yugoslavia, you only had the option of joining the Waffen SS or the Hungarian military, that was it. So in 1943, my father joined to Waffen SS.

Mike Welker [00:06:06] OK. And so once the war was ending and it was looking like, you, you know, they were kind of telling you to leave the the, some call it the expulsion.

Reinhold Federmann [00:06:19] Yeah.

Mike Welker [00:06:20] At that time. What do you remember from that. How did that go for you?

Reinhold Federmann [00:06:22] It was very traumatic. I of course, I was five years old at that time and I just vaguely knew that there was a war. But I have no concept of what war is.

Mike Welker [00:06:35] Yeah,

Reinhold Federmann [00:06:37] People talked about it and so forth. But you have no concept as a child. And so, you know, I was not really aware of a whole lot of things except that this one morning my mother woke us up, my my sister, my older sister, Lori and I. And said and she was very agitated and said, we have to we have to flee. I had no idea what that meant. What fleeing is. That was not a word. That was not in my vocabulary. And so, of course, I knew that my mother was very agitated and worried. So I started crying right away. And so she explained to us what we have to do. And she made a bundle of a few things for my sister and a bundle for me. And she packed a suitcase. It was a wicker suitcase. I still remember it was a wicker suitcase. And we there was a lot of tension in the home. My grandfather was living with us and he was not going to go with us. He was going to go with somebody else. So that created some of the tension and of course, the entire episode created tension. So when we after we were done with our things, we we had to go to the main road, the main street. From there, we were going to be transported elsewhere and I didn't know where. So I, we got to the main road and I saw there were a number of people lined up already with their belongings. Well, nothing happened for quite a while. And so after a while, my mother said, we're going to go back to the house.

Mike Welker [00:08:22] Yeah,

Reinhold Federmann [00:08:22] We went back to the house. And in order to relieve the tension, I guess my mother decided she's going to go butcher a chicken have chicken soup and chicken for. And so caught a chicken, tied its legs ready to chop its head off. And then my one cousin came running by. He was 12 years at the time, 12 years old at the time. He came by and said there are some more trucks coming and get back to the main road. So the chicken's legs were untied, it was let go and we went back to the main road and waited again. And after a short period of time, word came that a an advanced troupe of partizan.

Mike Welker [00:09:14] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:09:15] Were on the way and we should all scatter. So we went into hiding at nearby homes and I still remember my mother tuck me under a washtub, she put it wash tub over me to hide me.

Mike Welker [00:09:32] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:09:32] I don't know how long I was hiding hiding there, but eventually I was brought out and we went back to the main road and then two trucks came and soldiers, German soldiers loaded our belongings onto the truck and somebody lifted me onto the truck. That trucks then left and went to the nearby town of Verbas. And there we actually had to spend the night. Now we spent the night. There was no there were no provisions, no organized provisions.

Mike Welker [00:10:10] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:10:10] So we were able to sleep in the stall, of the stable of some people, they allowed us they said oh come on in.

Mike Welker [00:10:21] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:10:22] It's you know, this was October so it was getting cool already. So we spent the night there and then the next morning we boarded a train. Now, these were like cattle cars. These were not passenger trains. And our belongings were piled in there and we sat or stretched out on those belongings. And now the train was under way for a long time. That's my perception.

Mike Welker [00:10:51] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:10:52] In reality, it probably was only a few days.

Mike Welker [00:10:55] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:10:55] Because it did go into Austria, but to me it seemed like an eternity.

Mike Welker [00:11:00] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:11:01] And the one one memorable thing was, well, there were a couple of memorable things. There were air raids during the day. It was typically American planes that were also air raids at night. And the story is that those were a lot of times British airplanes. During the air raids the train would stop and we would scatter. We would jump out of the train and go into the nearest bushes or fields or whatever. And and then when the raid was over and go back on the train, that happened a couple of times. One other memorable thing was that the train stopped near the Danube and word was that the Russian troops were very close to us. And in order to get to gain more speed, the train had to leave a couple of cars behind. These cars were filled with goods and the goods were sugar. They were sacks of sugar in sugar cubes.

Mike Welker [00:12:11] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:12:12] And the plan was to take those sugar, those sacks of sugar and dump them into the Danube and then leave those train cars behind. My two cousins, who were 12 and 14, they were asked to help unload the trains. There weren't too many men who were fit. The men that were with us were older.

Mike Welker [00:12:36] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:12:36] They were grandpas.

Mike Welker [00:12:37] Everyone else was in the military.

Reinhold Federmann [00:12:39] Yes. Yes. So so the younger boys were the ones who unloaded the train. And as a reward, they would get a sack of the sugar cubes, which was very good for us at the time.

Mike Welker [00:12:49] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:12:50] So that's another memory I have of that.

Mike Welker [00:12:53] OK.

Reinhold Federmann [00:12:55] And I remember one also we came to town and they said the name of the time was Saltzberg and we got a feeding there feeding from a soup kettle. We didn't have much food or any food. So we got this soup. And I remember the soup was very salty and everybody said, well, it's appropriate for Saltzberg to have very salty soup, you know. You know, it's strange with the things you remember.

Mike Welker [00:13:25] Right? Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:13:26] We did not stay in Saltzberg, though. The train continued on and eventually we went we ended up in the province of Styria in a small town called Flattnitz. And the nearest big town there was Graz, which is also in Styria. Graz was not that far, I don't know, maybe 20 or 30 kilometers from Flattnitz. So in Flattnitz, we were housed ina school building. They had taken out all of the furniture. I don't know what happened to the school children. I don't know if it was an elementary school or whatever. But there were probably a couple of hundred of us and we were housed there. Now, the way we were housed was that we all had we had bedding. My mother had packed some blankets and sheets, and we put those on the floor. And so that's where we stayed from October until 1944 until I believe it was April of 1945.

Mike Welker [00:14:41] Wow, so 6, 7 months.

Reinhold Federmann [00:14:42] Yeah winter, during the winter months. I don't have very vivid memories of there. Just you know, there was never much food and there wasn't a whole lot else to do. So those memories are kind of faded.

Mike Welker [00:14:57] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:14:57] But then in 1945 we were transported to another place to Salfelden, which is also in Austria. This is all now in Austria.

Mike Welker [00:15:10] Now, did you ever get back together with your grandfather that went with someone.

Reinhold Federmann [00:15:14] No.

Mike Welker [00:15:15] No, OK.

Reinhold Federmann [00:15:15] He went with a family that had a horse and wagon. And the word we got was that they of course, they went north through Hungary and in the town of Sopron he, he died and he's buried there.

Mike Welker [00:15:32] Oh OK.

Reinhold Federmann [00:15:33] He was not too healthy. Well, I think he was about 65, 66 years old, had asthma. And of course, the whole the stress and strain of the events took their toll and so he passed away.

Mike Welker [00:15:47] Oh OK.

Reinhold Federmann [00:15:48] I don't remember when my mother got the word. It wasn't very soon. There were other people who who traveled along with them. And so eventually the word got back to her yes.

Mike Welker [00:15:58] The word go back. OK, OK, OK. So back to where.

Reinhold Federmann [00:16:01] Yeah. So anyway, in Salfelden, we stayed for a little while and then we- no I'm sorry. We were. We were. Just before the war ended, we were placed with a farmer in near Saltzberg and the farm family was just a husband and wife. Their son was in the military. The woman was very good to us, you know, and that's and you have to remember, these people have no choice. They-

Mike Welker [00:16:42] Had to take in.

Reinhold Federmann [00:16:42] The government said, you will take these people. And they fed us and they housed us. But I really have to say, they were very nice. Very good. Their lady was very good to us. My mother, of course, volunteered to help them in their chores, whatever farming chores.

Mike Welker [00:16:59] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:17:00] Which she did. And they were grateful for that, of course. And then I remember one day my mother said, OK, you don't say Heil Hitler anymore. When German planes flew overhead, we would always in Yugoslavia, we always had to wave and yell Heil Hitler. So they would recognize us as being German, not Serbian or others. So my mother said, no, no more Heil Hitler, and OK. And then one memory I have, it's really stuck with me this one day. It was actually before the end of the war. There was a huge noise from a motor from motors and we had, I no idea where it came from. And then I saw in the distance coming towards our house and going past the farmhouse, three tanks, our German tanks, they were the loudest noise I had ever heard.

Mike Welker [00:18:06] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:18:06] And they were slowly moving westward. There were soldiers on on these tanks. They didn't look very happy. You know, they didn't. We waved at them.

Mike Welker [00:18:19] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:18:19] They didn't wave back. You know, it was not a very cheerful thing, but the noise was tremendous, you know, and I remember that very well. When the war did end, when my mother told us no more Heil Hitler, we had to move, the farmers no longer have to keep us because the government that made them house us didn't exist anymore.

Mike Welker [00:18:44] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:18:45] So then we ended up in a small camp near Salzburg in Puch. P, U, C, H, small village.

Mike Welker [00:18:54] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:18:55] And that's where I had my first contact with Americans because American Americans pretty much were occupying the area. So in the camp, they organized a kindergarten. And so one day the lady that was in charge of the kindergarten took us for a walk. And as we were walking, there were a couple of American soldiers there. And so they talked to the the the leader, our leader. I don't know if they spoke German or English or whatever, but they mentioned something to him. So we all lined up, went past these soldiers and they gave us chewing gum and candy. So we said, these are good guys, you know. At this point, we had no the only thing that we knew, the only bad guys we knew were the Russians. We had no idea who else. I mean, you know, who else was was in the war.

Mike Welker [00:20:02] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:20:03] Our main conversation topic was the Russians.

Mike Welker [00:20:06] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:20:06] And so, anyway, these Americans, we thought, oh, these are good guys. You know, we want to.

Mike Welker [00:20:11] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:20:11] So we hang out with them. So well, we didn't stay there very long. We ended up in another camp and that was in Salfeldon. I had things a little bit. Well that was by that time it was already fall of 1945 and getting into the winter. And then we got word that my father was a POW in an American.POW Camp and along with some other fellow Kischkerner's, some other men from our village or from a neighboring village. Then one day some of the women along with my mother and there maybe only about three or four of them, they they found out where the camp was and they decided to go and visit the camp. And I don't know what transpired there. But when my mother came back, she said, you know, we can go and visit your father some time and. OK, you know.

Mike Welker [00:21:19] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:21:20] So after a period of time, I don't know how long I'm guessing that it probably was in the spring of 1946 or so or. Yeah, because it was still cold. It was cold weather. We got on a train and after a while we had to hike for quite a way. And we came to this enclosed area enclosed with a barbed wire fence and there were a number of big tents, army, big army tents in there. So as we approached the fence, there was a there was an American sentry, a guard. He saw us and he shooed us away. Get get lost or whatever. I don't know what he said, of course. So we went back into the woods and as the guard left we walked away. We came out again and we crawled under the fence. You know, we were my sister and I were small enough and actually crawled to the tent that was closest to us. And my mother came along. I mean, she crawled under the tent to there were some other women and they all did the same thing.

Mike Welker [00:22:37] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:22:37] And we ended up in this one tent and there were there were only, I think maybe two or three men in there at the time. And they said, OK, look, we will hide you. They strung like there was a clothesline-.

Mike Welker [00:22:53] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:22:54] And they draped some blankets over it. And then we sat behind those blankets after a little while towards, I guess, the end of the workday the troops that were out on the work detail came back. And so they wanted to have a little bit of fun with me and said, pick out your father, you know, because, you know, I had not seen my father in a couple of years, but I was able to pick him out.

Mike Welker [00:23:22] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:23:23] So that was kind of another memorable moment. So now there was an inspection of the tent and to get the men knew that and they said, well, the guy would come around and stick his head in and see if everything's all right. So you just stay behind the blanket.

Mike Welker [00:23:42] Right. Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:23:42] So that is what we did. Yeah. And so that inspection went by flawlessly. And then so we then spent the night in that tent with my father and with the other men. And the next day we crept out again and-

Mike Welker [00:23:58] And went back.

Reinhold Federmann [00:23:58] And left and went back. So when I tell people here that I actually went to visit my father while he was in a POW camp, people have a hard time believing that.

Mike Welker [00:24:08] Yeah, yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:24:10] But when you think about that, you know, the entire environment, it's really not that hard. I mean, these the prisoners in there, they have no interest in escaping. You know, there wasn't much to escape to.

Mike Welker [00:24:25] Right. Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:24:26] And so-.

Mike Welker [00:24:27] And there were so many people that they had to deal with at once. It wasn't probably very well organized.

Reinhold Federmann [00:24:32] Yeah, right. So anyway, but that that's that story. We eventually my father did join us. He was released probably in the shortly after we visited with him.

Mike Welker [00:24:47] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:24:49] And when he came to us in the camp, he said, you know, I'm going to go and talk to a farmer to see if we can stay. You know, I'll work for the farmer and then maybe they can keep us because then you'll have a little more reliable supply of food.

Mike Welker [00:25:06] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:25:07] Food was very scarce at the time and having a reliable food source was very, very important. So he did manage to get a find a farmer who was interested in having him work with him. So that's what we did. We left the camp and we had a room in the farm house for us, and he worked for the farm and the farmer on the fields. And my mother helped out with the other chores there. My sister and I had a good time at that farm. You know, farm is always a fun place.

Mike Welker [00:25:45] Sure.

Reinhold Federmann [00:25:47] But by the fall, of course, the winter time was coming. Then there you know, there aren't that many chores. The farmer probably didn't need as much help.

Mike Welker [00:25:57] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:25:57] So my my parents started to investigate what was going on in Salzburg because we were close to that and they decided that we would move to Salzburg. But at that time, we also knew there were other not relatives but friends, people from our village and from neighboring villages. They were in the, in some camps in Salzburg, so probably in late September or so, we ended up in Salzburg, in the camp by the train station was called Durchgangslager, meaning the transit camp.

Mike Welker [00:26:34] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:26:35] Where most refugees would stop first. And then from there, they would either go to another camp in Austria or try to go to Germany.

Mike Welker [00:26:47] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:26:48] Now, Germany was being filled up pretty quickly, too. So there wasn't there wasn't a whole lot of place to go to.

Mike Welker [00:26:53] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:26:55] So a lot of people did stay in Austria. We stayed in that camp for about, I would say, about 4 years. And then they decided to, you know, get rid of that camp and distribute all the residents to other camps in Salzburg.

Mike Welker [00:27:17] Now did you go to school while you were in that camp or?

Reinhold Federmann [00:27:19] Yeah, initially in 1946. Like I said, in September or October, they set up a camp school. And so we were in you know, I don't remember a whole lot about that camp school.

Mike Welker [00:27:35] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:27:35] Because it was not too long after that where the city of Salzburg decided that we would go to the local, the local public school, elementary school. And so that's where all of the kids then from the camp did go.

Mike Welker [00:27:53] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:27:54] And so I went to school there and we stayed there. And we you know, we got to know the city a little bit.

Mike Welker [00:28:03] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:28:05] In 1950, I think it was 1950. Like I said, the camp was dissolved and we moved, we moved to the camp in Maxglan, which was more of a western suburb of Salzburg.

Mike Welker [00:28:18] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:28:19] And I could I went to the school there and we stayed there until we left for the U.S. in 1956.

Mike Welker [00:28:29] Ok in 56.

Reinhold Federmann [00:28:31] Yeah.

Mike Welker [00:28:31] So how did you get to the US?

Reinhold Federmann [00:28:33] Well, that's kind of an interesting story, too, because at that time you had to apply for going to for for immigrating to the U.S. and there was an application process. You needed a sponsor.

Mike Welker [00:28:49] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:28:50] And there was an organization called Christliches Hilfswerk. This was a Lutheran organization. There were also Catholic organizations that helped Catholics. We were Lutheran. And so through that, Christliches Hilfswerk, you you filed your application papers and but there was a quota system-.

Mike Welker [00:29:16] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:29:17] At that time still. And when the quota filled up, well, then, of course, you were done, you couldn't go. There was a the process was a fairly involved process you applied for. You know, you filed your application papers. Then there was an investigation. An American team of investigators came. I guess they did a background check.

Mike Welker [00:29:43] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:29:43] They interviewed your neighbors, your family or whatever. And then there was also the medical thing you had to. There was an American doctor you had to be examined by an American doctor, and there were a lot of little steps, fairly time consuming.

Mike Welker [00:30:02] Right. I know that's how some of my relatives were prevented from coming or had to come later because of medical conditions or.

Reinhold Federmann [00:30:08] Right.

Mike Welker [00:30:09] What they participated in with the war.

Reinhold Federmann [00:30:11] Oh yeah.

Mike Welker [00:30:11] What division they were in, that kind of thing.

Reinhold Federmann [00:30:13] Well, until about 1949. 48-49. All the members of the Waffen SS were prohibited.

Mike Welker [00:30:24] Yes.

Reinhold Federmann [00:30:24] They were not accepted. Applications for them were not accepted. But then that that restriction was removed. And so it was only after that that we were able to apply.

Mike Welker [00:30:36] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:30:36] But America, or the USA was not the only country to go to. There were people and we applied. My parents applied at one point to go to Argentina. Argentina was a very popular place. Also Brazil. Brazil was welcoming immigrants as well as Australia.

Mike Welker [00:30:56] Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:30:56] And Canada. Now, Canada and the United States probably were the more desirable places.

Mike Welker [00:31:03] Right.

Reinhold Federmann [00:31:04] Because they were economically the most successful and the, you know,.

Mike Welker [00:31:08] Opportunity.

Reinhold Federmann [00:31:09] Yeah. And so, of course, we always tried the USA, but I know my parents, we applied for all we applied for going to Australia, Argentina, Brazil and Canada. But eventually and the way we ended up getting past the quota is kind of interesting is that we did not come in under the German quota. We came in under the Hungarian quota, and the reason for that was that during the war, Hungary was an ally of Germany and when Germany occupied Yugoslavia, Hungary actually occupied the area of what was called the Vojvodjani, which is the Batschka or the low area, because at one time that was part of Hungary. And I think the plan was that if if if the German if Germany had been successful in the war that prob- that land, probably would have gone permanently to Hungary again. So because This was under Hungarian administration while we were during the war.

Mike Welker [00:32:27] You got going under the Hungarian.

Reinhold Federmann [00:32:28] We were able to go and go under the Hungarian quota, which is kind of a twisted way of doing things, but

Mike Welker [00:32:38] A backdoor way to get in. Yeah.

Reinhold Federmann [00:32:39] Yeah. So anyway,

Mike Welker

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