Duane Drotar interview, 17 July 2024

Abstract

Duane Drotar shares his experience growing up in the Buckeye-Woodland neighborhood, then living on the Near West Side for many years. Drotar highlights how the Near West Side was an example of "richness" in terms of offering a setting for being in community with people of diverse backgrounds. Drotar's background in psychology and theology has shaped his role as an outreach worker in various agencies and community non-profits throughout the years in the Cleveland area. He discusses his choice to live next door to St. Herman's House of Hospitality (Franklin Boulevard and West 44th Street), which provided meals and overnight lodging for homeless people and resisted efforts by some in the community to close it down. Drotar also shares his work as director of the 2100 Lakeside Men's Shelter as well as with other organizations and initiatives to support and empower the homeless.

Interviewee

Drotar, Duane (interviewee)

Interviewer

White, Bali (interviewer)

Project

Near West Side Housing Activism

Date

7-17-2024

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

84 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Duane Drotar interview, 17 July 2024" (2024). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 544010.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1275

Related Resources

Near West Side @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Bali White [00:00:02] Going to get my bearings. And we’re live. Hi, everybody. It’s Bali White here with the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project. Today I’m here with Duane Drotar at Bishop Cosgrove Center. It is July 17, 2024. First and foremost, how are you?

Duane Drotar [00:00:16] I’m good. Good to be with you, Bali.

Bali White [00:00:18] I’m glad to have you. So, could you introduce yourself, kind of when and where you were born?

Duane Drotar [00:00:25] So, my name’s Duane Drotar. I was born in 1952, which means that I’m 72, and I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, in the Buckeye-Woodland neighborhood, and went to St. Benedict’s Parish and School. And that was a real interesting time. It was back when Cleveland was really segregated everywhere. And so, you know, the Hungarians were here, the Slovaks were here, the Italians were here, Blacks were here, the Polish were here, you know. And so it was a time where people typically stayed in their own neighborhoods and ate their own food and spoke their, you know, the language of, you know, mostly from eastern European country that they came from really intact, you know, Baby Boom kind of time. And so the church I belonged to was provided an incredible amount of activities for kids. So it was a real rich, rich period of my life. Played basketball, football, baseball, learned how to play tennis, went on a swim team, you know, I mean, cross country. So sports was a big, big part. And many of the teams that I played on won the city championship. And so it was like the server, Boy Scout, Cub Scout, sang in a choir. So anything that got me out of the house, you know, and it was at a time where you can leave on your bike in the morning and come back at night, you know, the only requirement was to get home before dark, you know, so real rich. And then I ended up, instead of going to Benedictine, which was only a couple blocks from my house, I ended up going to St. Ignatius High School. And, you know, so that was a little bit more of the same. You know, I played city championship basketball team there and met a lot of good friends, but I was one of the only people from the city, actually, that went to the school there. And then from Ignatius, I ended up going down to Cincinnati, Ohio, and went to school at Xavier. And that was, really, for me, provided a turning point, being away from home, the community that the school provided, and the need to work to get through school. I did play basketball there for a year, and then inevitably took six years to graduate and degrees in psychology and theology because of the work. And the work took me into the beginnings of, really, community work. For me, even though I had experienced what it was like to live in a vibrant community, you know, and had a lot to do with kind of meeting the, you know, the needs that I had that, you know, weren’t being met at home or whatever. So I moved- I was the only kind of White person that moved into this black community that, and I became a teacher, a coach, and I ran a recreation center and start working in more of the social work kind of areas of my life. You know, kids coming out of jail, methadone clinics, you know, a lot of different social service stuff started in Cincinnati. Then I moved back to Cleveland because my mother had died, my father had a stroke, and I had two brothers that were both disabled in their early twenties. And I had a sister, so there was four of us kids, and my sister was a nurse. And coming up, I spent so much time outside the house, I didn’t really grow in really close-knit relationships with my brothers and sisters. I mean, we ate all the time, and we did this, but it wasn’t that. So I decided to come back to Cleveland, and I initially came back because of an offer to coach and to run a retreat program at St. Ignatius High School, so on the Near West Side. And so that’s what got me to move when I first moved into the Near West Side itself. So, religious background, I was, you know, raised as a Catholic serving mass. And then, you know, actually, when I was young, I ended up serving mass every morning because that was back when every priest had to say a mass. And there was Abbey, St. Andrew’s Abbey, which is a Benedictine monastery close to my life. And most of the priests there taught, you know, or worked at Benedictine High School as part of their background. So I ended up being kind of an outreach worker for this church. So real quickly in my early twenties, I became familiar with- Back then there weren’t many shelters. There wasn’t many treatment programs. The only treatment program, there was only two in Cincinnati at the time, and one was run by this outfit called the Talbert House. And it was kind of a methadone program because back then, there was a lot of heroin and narcotics on the streets, and so a lot of the mental health stuff was only happening at the mental state hospital. There wasn’t a lot of the community supports that are available now for, it was all institutionalized back then. It was just the beginnings of releasing people from the institutions. Same thing with people coming out of jail. There was some programs that were just started where you offer per diem for kids that couldn’t give back to their families and to help them with resettling and jobs and that. So Cincinnati was like that. I spent a lot of time, some time teaching and coaching, but. And then inevitably, I purchased a home, and it was called- It was on Jonathan Avenue, close to I work, but in Evanston, Walnut Hills area, and started a Catholic Worker House. You know, it had eight bedrooms. And so there was a mixture of folks in that house that, you know, were coming out of treatment or coming out of jail or coming out of the institutions, along with some other folks who were like-minded and wanted to live that more simple life of hospitality and service.

Bali White [00:07:55] So was this house, this Catholic Worker House, was it a part of the Cleveland Catholic Worker Community?

Duane Drotar [00:08:00] No, this was actually in Cincinnati. And at the time, there was only one other. The only other Catholic Worker group did not. They were doing some feeding down in the Over-the-Rhine area, and they had some overnight stuff in a small house. But I knew the people that ran it went down there. But this was just kind of wasn’t really associated with the Catholic Worker movement locally. You know, when I did come back to Cleveland, there wasn’t a Catholic Worker in Cleveland at the time. But since I was head of the retreat program over St. Ignatius, I took about nine kids for a Christmas retreat and went to Joseph’s Home, Joseph’s House and Mary’s House, and visited a Catholic Worker in New York and got some sense of what they were doing there. There was a lot of other things that were part of that retreat. We lived in the Bowery and went into Harlem, and, you know, it was kind of a retreat. But back in early ’84, 1984, there was a group of us that got together and explored the idea of setting up a Catholic Worker House here in Cleveland. Or to just look at supporting each other’s desire to live nonviolently in the world. And there were some of us that had been practicing tax resistance and have been, you know, part of some of the sit-ins and demonstrations, you know, through that era of the seventies and eighties. And so the Catholic Worker decided to- There was probably, inevitably there was, you know, I don’t know, around 16 people that got interested in exploring this possibility. And there was a storefront, actually, on Lorain that at the time had just closed as a food co-op. And so we decided to- Some of us were working in the area. At the time I was working as an outreach worker. You know, there’s a Westside Catholic Center you might have heard about, and there was Cleveland Healthcare for the Homeless provided some connection with people that were outside. And so some of us, because we were working in those agencies, went to the Catholic Worker and invited them to consider the possibility of opening up the storefront for hospitalities because there was no overflow shelters in Cleveland at the time, and the ones that did exist were full. So some people were just kind of caught fending for themselves outside. So there turned out to be, you know, 16 of us, and everybody signed up. And one of the individuals that were part of that kind of assigned two people per night to open up, you know, this facility. And so it was on- Actually happened on my birthday, March 19, you know, 1985, the Catholic Worker opened up the first overflow storefront in Cleveland. And so I was paired with somebody that night, as everybody else was paired. And it turns out that the person I was paired with inevitably became my wife. And so- And then we ended up having three children and then living in the Near West Side for their whole growing up years. For me, they lived there from. I moved in, in 1983 and just didn’t move out until recently to do retreat work with homeless people. So that was kind of the beginnings of that journey.

Bali White [00:12:28] So actually, could you describe what the Near West Side looked like upon your arrival at that time, when you moved there?

Duane Drotar [00:12:35] Sure. Sure. So, you know, I was. My background was in psychology and theology. So my undergrad and master’s work were in theology mostly. And that led me to social services. And so the initial jobs that I had in the Near West Side in Cleveland were at places that provided a connection with, you know, the kids in the projects. You know, there was Lakeview and Riverview, and there were a little more gang things going on there. So Spanish American Committee, you know, there was the poor Appalachian kids that were here. The Hispanic kids were here. And so after I had worked, you know, at Ignatius, that first job, I ended up, you know, working at some other- I ran a free meal program at Bethany Presbyterian Church, you know, worked at Westside Catholic Center, was involved with family transitional housing, and they started a pilot project that has now exploded, but it was called Money and Mailboxes at the time that inevitably became Mental Health Services for Homeless Persons. And presently it’s called Frontline. So there was mental health work. There was work with people coming out of jail. There was, you know, walking with people, accompanying them through the addictions. And that was the beginnings. I lived right at West 28th and Detroit in a small, small $60 a month rent apartment during those early years, and started working at St. Malachi’s, ran their outreach and program, and during this time, inevitably started working at the center. But the status on the Near West Side, there had been one effort at kind of gentrification that happened on Jay Avenue, you know, back in the day, and this was before- It was the- It kind of was an individual effort. It was kind of close to the [West Side] Market, close to some of the amenities that were around. But for the most part, the Near West Side was filled with renters primarily. There wasn’t much home ownership at the time. There was some. And the folks who did own their homes were typically old residents who had been around, you know, on the Near West Side for a long time. But there was kind of the white flight and, you know, that happened, you know, during the seventies and eighties. And so there, there was, I’m just looking at the different areas of the community. It was Lakeview and Riverview that kind of hug the river. And then on the Near West Side was more heavily populated. The side streets, especially south of Lorain and a good number of parts north of Lorain were inhabited by more people that didn’t have access, just kind of surviving their income. They can pay rent and get some food and transportation, but they were still making decisions about whether I could get my medication or give my kid a uniform to be able to send them to school. So it was back then, in the late seventies and eighties, there were some outreach programs that came. Churches came together because they were getting a lot of poor people to their doors. And so they decided to come together and organize. And so the Westside Catholic Center was an outgrowth of a number of the churches in the Near West Side deciding that, you know, it’d be better if clothing and food and showers or whatever were handled and to relieve some of the constant doorbells that were being ringed. So Westside Catholic Center was established back then, and the churches all got together and they decided to create an evening meal every night of the week. So each church shared the responsibility of a different meal. And they would oftentimes recruit, you know, suburban churches to come in. So it might happen at Malachi’s, or it might happen at St. Pat’s or Franklin Circle Church, or it would happen at these different churches. But- And sometimes those churches kind of adopted that as a mission for themselves, you know, so they would have volunteers in the church that would actually cook and serve the meals on the Monday night at Malachi’s or the Tuesday night at St. Pat’s. St. Pat’s would bring in sometimes every week, they would have a different church come in that would help them with that evening meal. So there began to- It was the beginnings of services. There were many other services that supported the work of individuals that were dealing with mental health crisis. A lot of these agencies morphed into become bigger agencies, but there was counseling services, and there was an array of other programs that provided some support. But it was typically the Near West Side was poor in nature. There was beginnings of folks who had entered the Near West Side from the suburbs because they decided that they wanted to live in, you know, back then, it was- The Catholic Church was, you know, pushing the idea of living in close proximity with the poor, you know, and to explore ways that our lives, resources, gifts can possibly be extended for those who are marginalized or more vulnerable. So there was actually families that moved in from the suburbs with this kind of Catholic Worker spirit of supporting some of the early endeavors on the Near West Side that inevitably led to this becoming inevitably kind of a place where it’s almost like, on some levels, a networked social service. I wouldn’t say haven, but it was a community. It was taken care of, the most vulnerable. And, you know, part of that was, you had mentioned about St. Herman’s, but anyhow, that’s what it looked like. I inevitably moved off of West 30th and Detroit over to 28th Street, to a place that was condemned and redid it and began family there. And then inevitably, when the kids were still real young, I was approached to consider moving next door to St. Herman’s House of Hospitality, which was serving three meals a day and providing overnight hospitality. And it was one of the only overflow sites in town. So it was barraged, and they were packing people in every which way and so the community was very upset because they perceived St. Herman’s as being kind of a magnet for people all over the city to come to eat and to find shelter. That was a perception. But the reality was, at that time, probably 85% of the people who came to St. Herman’s lived within a mile of St. Herman’s. You know, they were just had to make hard choices about food and rent and medication or getting kids off to school. So St. Herman’s was really, you know, meeting the needs as many of the other churches of the area, to local folks who were, you know, you know, facing some real financial challenges in their life. Well, this upset many, many people who wanted the Near West Side to become downtown housing. There were- And so they really were looking at the school systems, but it was never perceived as a safe place to live back through the seventies and eighties, and so there was an outcry to close St. Herman’s. And the city, so the, you know, the powers to be kind of ended up putting pressure on St. Herman’s and said, you know, you can’t do what you’re doing because you don’t have permits. It ain’t safe, you know, you know, sprinkler systems, and you got people overnight sitting in chairs, and then, you know, you’re feeding all these people, and it’s just, there’s not enough room. You don’t have a dining room. You don’t have a place for people to sit. You know, it just was just kind of. So that effort got organized, and some of the people in the community got wind of that and knew what was really happening at St. Herman’s and knew many of the people who were getting services there, because St. Herman’s, even though it would never say it wasn’t part of the Catholic Worker, it was the leadership there from the orthodox priests that we’re running at, was absolutely the Catholic Worker motto. So.

Bali White [00:23:28] Could you kind of share where that was located at, St. Herman’s?

Duane Drotar [00:23:32] Yeah. So it was right at, right at 44th and Franklin Boulevard. So you had St. Herman’s, and next door you had this famous Franklin Castle, you know, and back in the day, it was owned by Judy Garland’s fifth husband, who was real connected, you know, in Cleveland, and, you know, was known as being haunted and it was kind of a- Franklin Boulevard used to, at the time, be kind of the Millionaire’s Row of the west side. It wasn’t quite like Euclid Avenue and Millionaire’s Row there, you know, where Cleveland State is. But, you know, the Labor Day parade went down Franklin Boulevard. You know, it was the- You know, there was a promenade that went around the reservoir where the garden is, you know. You know, there was a- So it was, you know, President Garfield used to drive, you know, ride his horse in from Mentor to preach at Franklin Circle Church, you know, and, you know, right there. So Franklin Circle, with all the Victorian homes that lined it at one time, was the cream of the city. All the streets around it were the working people for those people that owned those businesses. But by the time I moved in and was aware of the Near West Side in the early eighties, all those homes couldn’t be afforded and so they were all rooming houses. Most of them were, you know, boarding houses, rooming houses, and, you know, kind of a landlord collecting rents and not really putting much back into the building. And so the majority of them were in disrepair, and even though there was a few, I think there were only three people that owned the homes from West 25th to West 45th when I moved in next door to St. Herman’s. So we purchased that home because they needed variance to expand their- And there was this big controversy, you know, and meetings that was run by the councilperson, and the person that was, you know, they lived in a neighborhood around St. Ignatius. That was the councilperson, I mean, the congressman, congresswoman from that neighborhood. And so there was a big discernment process, and it was going back and forth, back and forth, what to do, and we tried to get the facts out there for who the people were. And so inevitably, you know, once the house was purchased, you know, the neighbors got the one to say of whether or not they could get the variance to build on the dining room. So the house that I moved into had been abandoned for about eight years, and a lot of the overflow from St. Herman’s that couldn’t get in there would crash in right next door to it. So it was, you know, I had been kind of stripped and abandoned, and really- But my wife and I, and she was pregnant with our third child and two small kids that were only three years old and one at the time, we decided to make a move and to be a presence next door to St. Herman’s, because many of the people that were there I knew, and the threat that everybody saw coming from them was just from a place of fear. So, your question again?

Bali White [00:27:47] Yeah, so St. Herman’s House of Hospitality. So I guess, what exactly were the services it provided?

Duane Drotar [00:27:56] Back then?

Bali White [00:27:58] Yeah.

Duane Drotar [00:27:58] Well, they served three meals a day, as they do to this day. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. They provided at that time, overnight hospitality to a fixed number of people. I think it was, you know, close to 20 people, let’s say, as an average. And they had probably about eight of those people were living there constantly, helping with preparing the food, dishes, distribution of the food.

Bali White [00:28:31] Similar to Catholic Worker itself?

Duane Drotar [00:28:33] Yeah, and were doing it right out of there. And so they helped with maintaining the inside and the outside of the house that served this, and they had services, and, you know, but it was run real similar to a Catholic Worker House itself.

Bali White [00:28:53] Who exactly started St. Herman’s House of Hospitality?

Duane Drotar [00:28:58] Yeah, so it was started back in the seventies by an orthodox priest who had this calling, and I believe his name was, for purposes of interview Father Gregory. And early on, there was this gentleman that actually, I think, was a student at Cleveland State who began volunteering there. His name was Father John Henry. Well, John Henry. And so he was kind of adopted by the order, and he became, started studying to become a priest, inevitably became the abbot and ran- And he was helped by other members of that denomination, but it was kind of a one or two man show with the helpers of formerly homeless people that ran and, you know, were providing, you know, close to a couple hundred meals a day. When you look at, you know, all three meals, they were providing clothing, you know, they, you know- And of course, the neighbor on the other side from me was completely- Wanted them gone. Mickey Devinco. So he- And then there was a house that was in between the two of them, which was very strangely set on fire and torched right at about the time where there was serious conversation with Habitat for Humanity to inevitably convert it. Back then, they were just doing new housing here in Cleveland to a four family, but for people of low income to be in there, which really was not really up the alley of the owner of the Franklin Castle at the time. So it ended up, what happened was, after that fire, which actually was set on two different occasions, St. Herman’s was able to actually buy, get access to that land and create a buffer between them and the Castle itself. So the garden that exists there now and the outside kind of place of hospitality was something that came in early on from there. So they expanded. They ended up- It took a year or so, but they created a dining room, they created a storage down below. They created, you know, space for— To satisfy the needs of the city that wanted to close them down because they didn’t have A, B, C and D.

Bali White [00:32:01] Okay, and then, so you were raising your family, like, right next door. Can you kind of share what that was like at the time?

Duane Drotar [00:32:09] Yeah, well, the desire to stay on the Near West Side for my wife and I at the time was really because we wanted our kids to grow into a place that had, you know, diversity. You know, Near West Side was always a diverse place, rich and poor living together, from its inception. And in that kind of mixture, there was a school at the time in the neighborhood. It was affiliated with St. Wendelin’s and, you know, St. Malachi’s and St. Pat’s. And St. Pat’s School closed down. And so, you know, to kind of make sure the Ursuline sisters kind of started a school called Urban Community School back in the day. And so we were attracted to the diversity, you know, one-third Black, one-third Hispanic, one-third White, you know, I mean, type of the diversity of that education, but also, you know, so that our kids would have an opportunity to be amidst richness. And the way we define richness is that diversity and being comfortable with a wide variety of folks from not just racially or socioeconomically, but also in different places in their own path towards wholeness, you know, and we felt that that would- That was one of the reasons why we decided to actually move in next door to St. Herman’s. So St. Herman’s, you know, they ran it like a monastery. I mean, you know, there was a boarding house on the other side of us that was loud music until the wee hours. With St. Herman’s, I mean, there was a vow of silence going on after 8:00, you know, and they, you know, I lived there for, you know, over 20 years and, you know, as a neighbor, I mean, there was always interesting things going on. There were always- And I just wasn’t next to one family, but I was interrelating every day with dozens and dozens of people that were my friends, because by that time, I had spent a lot more energy working and starting different agencies that provided us and our family with a connection with those who were in transition. So.

Bali White [00:35:05] Sure. Could you, I guess, share a little bit about the individuals you’ve encountered through all of that?

Duane Drotar [00:35:11] Yeah. So sometimes we live under the illusion that our efforts are kind of one way really making a difference in the lives of people who might not have opportunities that you create the connection with or the support for. But really, it isn’t about feeling good, but when people invite you into their lives in a personal way and you come to appreciate, not just the challenges, but come to appreciate how amidst the resilience to survive that trauma or that pain, what it leaves with, how it changes an individual and creates a gift that you cannot find anywhere else. Folks who’ve had to, there’s a lot of us that just spend a lot of our energy trying to stay out of hell. There’s other people who’ve been through hell and got to the other side and the richness that those survivors bring to the world. And the sad point is that it’s not- It’s really not recognized, you know, because, you know, we just look at gaps and deficiencies. We don’t see assets and gifts. We don’t see the incredible abilities that are available, especially when we spend a lot of time, you know, running to the rescue and seeing people as victims, you know, that need this, they need housing, they need this, they need that. They need recovery work, you know, support. They need mental health support. They need food, they need clothing. You know, all they do is need, and so the sad thing is, is that many of the agencies become rescuers. You know, they become- And then, you know, the people that need support, instead of being a model of empowerment that sees their gifts and invites them to be part of the solution, you know, we end up, you know, the neediest get the first dibs on stuff. And so that creates an energy that really ends up being counterproductive because it creates senses of dependency and entitlement and also doesn’t provide a connection. So that the conversion, the mutual transformation that’s available in relationships with those who are different than us or are challenged differently than we are, that open up to us an awareness of our own fear and our own ways that we limit ourselves that sometimes we don’t recognize because, you know, we’re college grads, you know, you know, we don’t go from crisis to crisis to crisis because, you know, financially, we have a little bit more of the wherewithal and we got roles, you know, and we got importance, and so we miss it. We miss the gift that’s always been available there. I was in class today here, and one of the women in the class talked about how she loves to garden and grow flowers, and she comes here to Cosgrove, and there’s a courtyard that is just oftentimes just overcome with weeds. And it could be, it sits right outside the dining room, could be an absolute sanctuary for people to sit and get peace and quiet and just breathe in the beauty around them. But we see it as like, who’s going to take care of it? Who’s going to water the plants? And you have people, five people or six people in this class today of 20 raised their hands, said, I would like to be part of that. I got skills there. I have grown my own food. I love flowers. I would love to, you know, but here they are right there. I mean, this might not be the best example, but there they are, you know, right there to make a place beautiful. And it’s not- You know, the people here just to provide the food and the showers and, you know, they have. NEOCH comes up for support. You know, we got, you know, different agencies that are available to provide outreach in different ways, but so burdened by the overwhelming need that there’s no structure. There’s no structure to call forth the gifts to be part of the solution, especially in their own lives. And that’s something in all the different agencies. Agencies, you know, the churches and then, you know, all the agencies that exist that sometimes that’s a gift we miss.

Bali White [00:41:02] Absolutely.

Duane Drotar [00:41:02] Yeah.

Bali White [00:41:03] So earlier, you kind of mentioned briefly a little bit about the Catholic Worker and the house itself and the Storefront. So while you were working in outreach and involved with St. Herman’s House of Hospitality, were you also like, going to the community dinners with the Catholic Worker sometimes?

Duane Drotar [00:41:23] Well, after the opening of the Catholic Storefront, that was only open for half a year or something, and it became— The need became great. So there was a couple of us that were actually working for Cleveland Healthcare for the Homeless at the time and where the women’s shelter is now, Norma Herr at 2219 Payne. We worked out of there, and I was in charge of outreach on the Near West Side. Different people had different things, and they were providing healthcare. There was nurses, and it was- It’s called Care Alliance now, but back then, it was Cleveland Healthcare for the Homeless. So there was a team that was actually doing some pretreatment work and outreach, medical outreach, and mental health outreach for folks. And so my efforts ended up going to setting up what they call Project Heat. And inevitably, it turned out to be about half a dozen different public building space in the downtown area. Homeless people would go there after everybody left the city from their jobs, and they’d sleep there and get up and leave before anybody came up. And so that went on for years. And so my efforts and ended up going towards housing in a more emergency level instead of the Catholic Worker motto at that time. But during that time, I started opening up homes myself. So we began to do hospitality in houses that were abandoned and were being sold. You know, the house on Franklin Boulevard that used to. was turned over to the VA for a board and care situation, a live in board and care situation that had kind of gone out of business, that was empty. And there was a house. There was a gentleman from the Catholic Worker that had really premature early death and had lived in a house on West 45th Street and wanted that to be used in the purposes of Catholic Worker. So turned that building over to myself to operate. And so I began to become involved with housing on the Near West Side that provided housing for, you know, either kind of sleeping rooms with recovery support or homes for the milieu that were homeless and in transition themselves. And so got involved a lot with relationships with landlords. Back then, there were many landlords on the Near West Side that were providing affordable housing for people. And, you know, they really wanted a connection with people that they didn’t have to advertise and deal with an unknown. They could go with somebody that knew the person would be good for their house and had the income. And if anything went wrong, they could just call one person and you could go and have that conversation and to help transition that situation and help the landlord. So they never had to go get a lawyer. They never had to spend money there. They didn’t have to worry about clean outs. They didn’t have to worry about furniture, you know, and so they kept the rents low because they had a relationship with somebody that act as a liaison. So if there was a house that opened because somebody got a better apartment or got married and moved out or whatever, you know, we would get the phone call and say, hey, I got an opening. Who do you got? And because we were working with people and had a sense of who was really serious about moving on, you know, the affordable housing was there. So, you know, we created actually an agency to work with those people in the shelter that, you know, weren’t being able to kind of get out because they were diagnosed. And, you know, and there was the beginnings of, you know, primitive supportive housing was beginning back then, and or people who were working, you know, they’d be able to inevitably just have a place to sleep or people that really saw the treatment support as being the reason they were homeless and creating a funneling so that they can get to the transitional housing programs or the treatment programs, because that was the budding. That was the beginnings of transitional housing. And, you know, some of the treatment support that really wasn’t available, you know, that much back then. It was the beginnings of some of those transitional housing programs themselves. And so that’s where my interests ended up going, being part of those agencies, working for those agencies, developing new agencies that new nonprofits, you know. So we started a group called the Aman Community that had incredible results with this new paradigm, this new delivery system, which was just about relationships, really, you know, walking with, accompanying people, providing, seeing their gifts, creating them with opportunities to extend their gifts to the broader community. And then there was an excitement to kind of address some of the challenges that they faced and that more of a community building transformation dynamic. Instead of being one that was just transactional. You come in your units of service. We’re here to provide clothing or food, and it’s just all transactional. It’s not transformational because there isn’t a connection. There isn’t development of trust. There isn’t, you know, looking at purpose together. Those things never happen because, you know, the root cause of homelessness, you know, many people think, is this or that, but it really is just being outside a relationship, being on your own, nobody to trust, no one you’re connected to, nobody could be honest with, nobody that cares, nobody that sees you. These things are what causes- You know, it’s not housing, it’s a home. You know, in home, we find a relationship, we don’t find that, you know? And once that’s in place, well, everything seems then to fall into place, you know, when you have that support and, you know, us lucky ones have found neither within our own family or because of the networks that we belong to in schools or with friends. You know, we, we were blessed with that opportunity, and many, many people don’t have that opportunity at all, you know? So, anyhow,

Bali White [00:48:28] You mentioned, like, a couple of agencies. You mentioned one by name. Could you kind of share a couple other ones that you were involved in?

Duane Drotar [00:48:33] So, you know, in the beginnings, I got involved here in Cleveland, you know, I was also on my sabbatical years, with teach and coach, you know, teach theology, coach basketball or cross country or track or whatever, and most of the times doing that at the same time that you’re working with other agencies. But the beginnings were at, you know, the hunger center, at the Bethany Presbyterian and Westside Catholic Center, I had a chance to work with women and children, family transitional housing. So I was excited, exposed to the different challenges that. The different subsets of the homeless population. I got involved with mental health services for homeless persons or Money and Mailboxes. It was previously called, is now Frontline, part of the first outreach team there. That was an incredible experience for me, doing outreach for, you know, backed by an agency to support connecting with people who were resistant, you know, to services. I became a program director at St. Malachi center, working with the kids in the projects, working with, you know, women in some of the empowerment things, GED and, you know, all the things that were going on there. The shower program was there, running the recreation center, and when I was there, started this nonprofit called the Aman Community, which was inevitably hired by the county to redesign, to look at, and to create a model that, because of the work that the Aman Community was doing, create a model to explore how can we close these six sites in public buildings down, you know, Project Heat? How can we, what can we do? Because it’s just growing and went from two to three to four to five to six. What can we do? Because it was costly to have all these sites just with two people overnight. So what can we do to fix this so that we don’t continue to grow this population? So the Aman Community was hired to design a plan, and then after, you know, I worked at Y-Haven, it was one of the first, you know, City Mission was going on a little bit. Harbor Light, Salvation Army was doing some stuff with shelter, and they were starting to bring in more of a transitional housing. The federal government opened up some monies for actually transitional housing, which would provide a longer period to stay with, not just wraparound support, but actual, you know, on site, you know, treatment for addiction or mental health support. And so why Haven opened up on the Near West Side. You know, was down the street from where I was living. So I started working for Y-Haven and then ended up working for some community organizations and then became the director of homeless services at the Volunteers of America, which is also on the Near West side. So that was a larger facility that had a program for veterans, had an emergency shelter, and it has a transitional housing program on site. So I worked for them for a while, and then I worked for Northeast Ohio College for the Homeless for a while, creating, thank you, creating better linkages with community with the CMHA so that we can find kind of a more smooth pathway into public housing for people who were in a shelter. And then I, you know, bought a, you know, bought some houses. You know, I bought an eleven-bedroom house and started doing, you know, kind of sleeping rooms with support, right. A couple houses away from where I lived. And then inevitably, I became the director over at 2100 Lakeside. And back then they had a real rough start because they were just so overwhelmed by the need when they closed down all these multiple sites, and they never were able to get their sea legs. So it was just the roosters were in charge of the henhouse, you know, I mean, and it was- It was a lot more violence. There was a lot more kind of bullying and preying on each other. And it was- It became so challenging that the person that was assigned to be the operators of that that site was just decided that unless we get more money, there’s no way that we’re gonna be able to, you know, have a chance to fix this problem. So the county decided to send- So I was hired right in the middle of all that. Wasn’t sure if I was going to have a job six months later. But, you know, with this new idea where you just, you know, call people together and say, you know, we’re spending this much money for a box lunch once, you know, once a day, you know, can we find the good chefs and the people want to clean and, you know, want to and put them all together and for less money? Create three meals a day at the shelter, feeding, you know, close to four or 500 people, you know? You know, the security was worthless, you know, because it was just, you know, kind of off the hook. You know, when I came there, the person says, I don’t know if you want the job because it’s like the wild, wild West, you know? And so- But this new, inevitably, there was, you know, people can get a mail room. They could get their mail delivered. They can- They can, you know, end up washing their clothes, you know, with all the help. I mean, the place was clean as can be. And then we just asked people, what do you want? And some people said they wanted help with treatment. So we created an area thing that was a liaison and did some pre-treatment work so they can get to transitional housing. There was an area for workers. There was an area for veterans. There was a worker for people who didn’t want treatment anymore. Been there, done that. There was an area for the more fragile, older people and then those with mental health challenges, serious mental health challenges. So depending on what people asked for, we just created a place and a shelter that accommodated those needs. That’s all we did. So instead of just throwing people on mats, you know, whenever they came in, you know, first come, first serve, you know, we just created something. And so all the partners who were beginning, starting, you know, we just connected with them and say, what do you want us to do when you were here? They said, boy, it would be helpful if you can do this or do this or do that. And so that’s all we did. And we created more of an interaction, a relational interaction where the staff just, instead of being crazy and just passing out bus tickets to the squeaky wheel, you know, ended up addressing- And we set a curriculum up where people can graduate within the shelter themselves to do that. It’s not that similar to what happened with each of us growing up in our own families. You know, we had issues, you know? You know, adolescence was only one of those many transition, you know, so when. When people get traumatized and they, their development get disrupted by addiction or trauma or whatever it happens to be, loss of any kind, their development gets stuck. So, you know, they can be 50, but they’re still operating out of a worldview that’s, you know, 16 years old, no fault of their own, you know, and it’s become so painful that it’s, you know, the days are spent trying to find a distraction or a way to numb that pain. You know, you’re hurt. What are you going to do? You know, you’re going to try to fix that pain, you know, and when you’re outside a relationship and don’t feel support, you know, and you feel isolated, you know, why should I even live, you know? So you got people walking around that, you know, depressed, clinically depressed, anxious, you know? You know, no connection? What are they going to do? You know, they’re going to look for the next Snickers bar to get, you know, 15 minutes of relief, you know, and hope they hit the lottery. You know, that means that’s the only way out, you know? So anyhow, From there, I ended up actually coming back here to Cosgrove after six years in the shelter. I thought I was going to be there for the duration and started a retreat program because, you know, psychological problems sometimes have spiritual solutions kind of thing, and so. And created this community-building transformation process, found a home here. We called it Station Hope because of Cleveland, you know, knowing that it was, you know, it was a place for people that were escaping, you know, and looking for a place to get to freedom. So, you know, that’s all we all doing, you know, just trying to stop limiting ourselves with negative messaging or whatever it happens to be, you know, and get, stop believing in ourselves. And if there’s a pathway, if a person can see that the ladder that leads to that and are allowed to climb it. So my wife got sick with cancer, my first wife, and I ended up doing some work in Mansfield at a huge facility there, you know, handled not only the food stuff and the, you know, the clothing stuff, you know, and all that kind of stuff, you know, they also did a lot of outreach there, and then they started working with what we call now Turning Point community, you know, different- And then, you know, I got remarried to this lady right next to us here, and she had a vision- We had a shared vision of possibly creating a place where people who can’t find any place that isn’t completely chaotic, you know, filled with all kinds of drama, a quiet place. And I had seen such incredible transformation happen with people at 2100 that when they had a chance to go through a retreat process, you know, there was- We set up a thing where they did four retreats, you know, over a course of three months, you know, at the Jesuit Retreat House, it was called at the time, Center now. And when I saw that combined with opportunities for people to serve, you know, to all of a sudden allow purpose and meaning to emerge, that inevitably they got the sea legs underneath them, and then it just, you know, what they started to seek- Start seeking them. And then opportunities, you know, opportunities. Once you’re in that movement of belief that, you know, you’re loved and you’re beloved and however you want to talk about it, things happen when you sense your value and the hunger to stay engaged in community, you know, help with the integration, you know, of many of the information that was coming, you know, with the transitional job experience and with the transitional housing experience and the, and the so in the institute that kind of worked with to try to disrupt some of the toxic kind of patterns that were there. So, we opened up this retreat place, and, you know, now we- Tuesdays and Wednesdays we’re here, and we have retreats monthly, you know, for people in this group. It’s open to many other people for different things, too. But then- [crosstalk] Yeah, in Kirtland. She [Bali White] grew up in Willoughby. Yeah. So she knows exactly where Chapin Forest is. And that- [crosstalk] So now- So that- So it’s like I’m returning to back where I started. So now, you know, Catholic Worker has this house, seven bedrooms, you know, on Fulton, exploring what to do next with the house, because there’s, you know, many volunteers have lived in there. They’ve had people there who were in transition, you know, they’ve had incredible people who have lived a kind of Dorothy Day lifestyle of living in community, you know, with those that are trying to find their sea legs, you know? And so here we are, you know, we have people that we know who we’re friends with now who can really benefit, you know. And so Catholic Worker now is in the new kind of morphing of the evolution, evolving, because this community here in Cleveland has generated people that are at the forefront of the movement of nonviolence in the city, inviting people to patterns of engagement with those who are most vulnerable, not just here in Cleveland, but throughout the country, throughout the world, actually. There’s people that are in the Catholic Worker that work for IRTF, people that are part of it, that are working in agencies, who have started agencies, who are engaged with supporting any opportunity that any agencies or individual has to make a difference on the Near West Side. It’s gentrified now. My kid works. One kid works, is a therapist, another one works. Runs a 14-county program for homeless VA veterans in the county. With that job and his wife working, they couldn’t even find a place on the Near West Side, in Tremont, in Ohio City. And, you know, nothing. Nothing comes close. They couldn’t, with their income, full income, couldn’t purchase a house in any- So they were lucky they found something in Old Brooklyn, you know. You know, to get started. But that’s the challenge we face. You know, the affordable housing has evaporated. There’s no incentives for people with money to create affordable housing. It can work. It can make money, but it not that the payday isn’t as great as creating, you know, these loft apartments and retail underneath or business offices, you know, I mean, it’s just the money’s not there. The incentive ain’t there. And even though it can be lucrative, you know, I mean, it can be a huge complement to, you know, it’s not the big giant one, you know, like, you know, playing a stock market, you know, and this and that, but it can make a difference in other people’s lives. And, you know, the Catholic Worker has continued to call forth all of us to do what we can with a little energy we have left at my age and to, you know, to take the resources we have and to explore. We can partner. So I’ve gone to Mike Fiala and I said, look, you know, you know, let’s go back to how it started. You know, maybe we can get some, you know, an overnight oversight presence every day, you know, invite others who haven’t had a chance to be in close proximity to just consider one night a month to hang out and have breakfast, you know, or whatever. So, yeah, I miss the Near West Side, but, you know, I got two of my three kids are living here, so, and I come into the city, and so I’m hoping to open up more formally all those partnerships with those nonprofits and to find ways to kind of support, to support people, to actually see that, hey, we’re on the same boat, you know what I mean? And rising tides raise all boats. And it really is important that we don’t miss seeing, tapping into and being in relationship with the real change agents. And that’s those who, you know, what good can come out of Nazareth or Bethlehem, you know what I mean? There’s nothing going on there, you know? Well, you know, where we think nothing’s going on, that’s really where the action is. All we got to do is create the structure whereby they can contribute their gifts in partnership, you know, you know, the fortunate, privileged in relationship with the marginalized and the unfortunate. And, you know, to me, that’s what we see as being richness and that’s what we see as at the heart of the Catholic Worker, you know, and we like to kind of look at ways to expand those opportunities for more and more and more people in Cleveland.

Bali White [01:07:10] Absolutely. So you had mentioned the retreats. Could you kind of share what happens at the retreats?

Duane Drotar [01:07:16] Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I brought some things for you. These are just handouts that we used today in the Awakened Circle. This is, we just put our, you know, put in a request that we were nominated to buy a pastor who just retired who comes here on Wednesdays to be part of the class and to put in a grant. There’s these grant awards. And so this describes a little bit about what we do at the Awakened Circle and what happens for your bathroom reading. You know, there’s a- So we also started together, this 501-c-4, like the Catholic Worker, it’s called Turning Point Community Cleveland. And so this- We’re about probably 19 months into our presence here on a weekly basis. We’re here now just two days a week, all morning. Yeah. [crosstalk] And so, so this is the second year we’re a year and a half into retreats. And so these are the dates. We have retreats once a month out at our place. We have different themes each month. And typically we try to spend the Wednesdays in introducing the idea through song or video or lecture or handouts or whatever. And then there’s a deeper dive because we’re out there all morning and all afternoon with people out in nature and kind of let nature do its work. This is kind of the process that people get up to. If anybody can come up, anybody that, and then if they come and they participate a little bit and then they kind of get things in order, then they move to become from guest, to participant, to candidate, and then the trainee, you know, they’re invited to come out, and people come out, and then there’s a bonding, there’s a relationships now people have with each other, you know, on top of that, and, you know, and then when you’re in a class together, you kind of come forth and have expectations that, you know, you kind of step up to your own life, you know? And then people, we’ve had- We have four people now. We’re looking at two others to extend what they’ve received in the form of service. So we have people now that are helping out here at Cosgrove in a clothing room. They’re helping out cleaning after lunches. They’re helping out with a variety of things. We have one lady that’s, if she’s not helping out in the kitchen, you know, everybody’s saying, where is she? You know, so she provides- And many of them have found housing. They’ve gotten part time jobs. You know, they moved on with their life. And so, you know, it’s kind of getting back in that sandbox and learn how to play, you know, play, get along with each other, you know? And so this service provides an opportunity to get out of itself from me, me, me, me, me, poor me, for, you know, the self pity. It was talked about by one of the guys here in class today. How can I make a difference in the world? How can I serve? These are just different questions that the people. Ginny, I don’t know, the back of the t shirt, they walk around, it says, life’s most urgent question, what are you doing for others? And everybody can be great because everybody can serve. You know, that’s kind of when people have that service opportunity, it’s like, you know, it’s amazing. It’s like right now, you’re serving the world doing this interview, you know? [crosstalk] You know, what a great, great opportunity, you know, to look and interview all these people and to look how things have changed and to maybe explore ways that we can find ways to be more compassionate.

Bali White [01:11:40] Right and, you know, through these interviews, I hope that, you know, someone will listen it and perhaps, you know, want to get involved and hope that they could be that person that offers change also.

Duane Drotar [01:11:51] One brick at a time is what Dorothy Day said, you know.

Bali White [01:11:57] Awesome. Well, I guess we’re kind of nearing the end of this interview, but I do have some, I guess, two questions. So, looking back, is there anything you would have done differently?

Duane Drotar [01:12:11] Well, I think that in my early twenties, one of the things that kind of guided the boat, you know, for the winds of change, you know, in my life was going back to the idea of, you know, what’s God’s will for me? You know, that simple question was always there, you know? And so what’s strange about it is, I think once a person starts asking that question, you know, because what the heck does that mean, that question? But when you start asking that question that all of a sudden, you know, you’re really feeling that the universe has got your back. And so what you’re seeking and what you need in the next experience is seeking you. I don’t think I ever looked for a job. You know, I never- And they came to me, and I don’t think that I’m any more, you know, special than anybody else, you know? And- But it seemed like that one question opened up all of a sudden, me to see things that I would have never seen if that question wasn’t part of my day, I’m not trying to be religious or trying to convert anybody here. I’m just saying that when we find a way to get out of ourselves and are especially helped, because I was helped by the ones I thought I was serving to get out of myself, to recognize the value in that level of surrender. And so what would I have changed or what I think would have done differently? I probably would have wished I could have stayed with some agencies longer because, you know, on some levels, a lot of this being with and involving volunteers and engaging people in more transformational experiences isn’t really the strategy of delivery. That’s top down and trying to control and trying to make sure, worry about liability. It takes a village. And I think that for the most part, that’s what I’ve tried to do with my life. You know, I’ve seen miracles, so many miracles, people, you know, I- One time got involved with this gentleman outside the Cozy Corner and watched him walking around the neighborhood, you know, already, you know, thinking every day about being a dropout to become a heavyweight champion of the world. You know, I’ve seen people that suffer from all kinds of physical and mental and, you know, not dual diagnosed, triple diagnosed dealing, but I seen them find, find themselves and all of a sudden begin to work on and be healed physically, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically. So, you know, I have come for 40 plus years because there’s always somebody I meet that inspires me to get to reach for, reach for the heights and not limit myself and have taught me how to become fully alive. So why would I want to retire from a job like that? So would I do anything differently? It wasn’t really in my hands, and I just tried to ride that stream that’s going to that same river in the same ocean we all find ourselves in, inevitably. So I don’t know. I’ve- I’m really grateful. So why would I want to change things that provided experiences for me that have just taught me so much, opened up, awakened me to what I was blind to? I wouldn’t want to change any of that. I wouldn’t- In fact, I don’t know if even know what I know now when I was 20, if I would have done any better with my, you know, with my ignorant self, you know what I mean? But it’s been a great journey. It still is. And now I got a partner I kind of sharing that with. And, you know, we got a bunch of friends here and a lot of people, you know, like Mike Fiala, that, you know, I wish I was free every day to go on his hikes every week, you know what I mean? You know, with what he’s doing, you know, in all the ways. And so I guess I wouldn’t- And quite frankly, you know, the older I get, the more I realize, you know, why some of the things that, you know, I had to go through had really created the fertilizer, you know what I mean? So, you know, the little fruit that I could bring, you know, to someone else, got a little sweeter, I hope.

Bali White [01:17:55] Yeah. These experiences shaped who you are today. So I think it’s a good perspective that you have on all of that. And then, of course, moving forward, what changes do you hope to see for Cleveland, if any?

Duane Drotar [01:18:09] Yeah, well, what I would like to see is, and I don’t know if this is obviously the political leadership, the religious leadership, the think tanks, the foundations, the people who study all this stuff and are looking for designs that can be not just more cost effective, get a better bang for the buck, but really create a level of energy. And it calls forth all of us as a community. You know, what I like to see is for religious leadership, political leadership, nonprofit leadership, business community leadership, to explore ways that can really be an empowerment strategy that doesn’t really recognize and focus on how we’re different. And thinking that, I’m going to leave this to the experts and recognize that the wisdom, what needs to happen even within our own families, to those that are really challenged, to know that the wisdom that’s needed and also the energy and resources that are needed to solve all our problems are right here with us. It’s just a question of will and reprioritizing how the money goes and exploring together ways that through collaboration and through partnerships, you know, this, everybody talks about a partnership culture, you know? Well, you know, it’s nice to move from, you know, those of us on boards that are always reminding us that, you know, our cup is half empty, you know? Well, look at it a little differently and build on the gifts of. And then the cup is half full, see? Which might bring us out of this idea of scarcity and to this place of abundance. But then what I hope for is that when you get two or more gathered and people start really being engaged at realizing that it’s, you know, I’m not too old or, I can’t do this for this reason. I can’t get involved. That’s for the younger generation or that, or that’s for the, you know, people who know better, because, you know, I don’t know that I was, I was a painter or, you know, I was a doctor. You know, what do I know about the homeless? You know, I mean? Well, quite frankly, everybody knows a whole lot. And when everybody gives that little bit, the cup ain’t half empty anymore. It ain’t half full anymore. The cup overflows. And so then those resources are there, you know, they are there because the resources are there. It’s just a question of move away, you know, from this epidemic of fear, this culture of, you know, this bipartisanship. You know, here we are, you know, Lord have mercy, and really find ways to not just spout the idea of unity, but to actually look at what that really, really means and to put aside those agendas, you know, that, because we want to be, you know, because of our weak egos, want to need to be better than somebody else, beat somebody else, win at all costs, you know, at somebody else’s expense. And that’s what happens when we don’t come together. You know, it takes a village, you know, and that means everybody. So I’d like to see inclusivity, not just, for Blacks and Whites, rich, poor, gay, straight, and, you know, fly a flag, you know, let’s wear the t-shirt. You know, let’s really look at ways that we have limited ourselves because of the fear we have of the stranger or the feeling that somehow that the spirit of God isn’t going to work completely through us and those around us, because everything we need is right here, right now. And so that’s what I would like to see. You know, that level of vision. You know, the vision has been put out there. You know, King had this vision, beloved community. I mean, there’s not new that I said today. There’s no- It’s just that it hasn’t worked itself into the structural change that creates the economic disparity, you know, that we live in doesn’t have to be, you know, we don’t need no shelters, everybody- We have enough empty bedrooms all throughout the county to house not only everybody in the state. It’s just a question of how can we do that so that individuals can have the opportunity to be part of the solution instead of analyzing the problem in the many ways that we do.

Bali White [01:23:51] Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you very much.

Duane Drotar [01:23:54] You’re welcome. Pleasure being with you.

Bali White [01:23:58] I appreciate your effort and your overall participation. I’m Bali White with the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project. Here with Duane Drotar at Bishop Cosgrove Center on July 17, 2024.

Bali White [01:24:11] Thank you.

Duane Drotar [01:24:11] Alright. Thank you.

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