Abstract

This oral history interview with Edmund Ziemba, conducted on March 7, 2003, by Christine Cleary, offers a reflective account of Ziemba's early life in the Tremont neighborhood of Cleveland, Ohio, during the mid-20th century. Born in 1933, Ziemba shares vivid memories of his childhood, the close-knit community, and the cultural traditions of the predominantly Polish neighborhood. He discusses his family's history, including his grandfather's immigration from Poland and establishment of a bar and later a bank in Tremont. Ziemba recalls daily life, the entertainment and recreational activities available to children, and the sense of security and community that characterized the area. He also touches on the impact of World War II on the neighborhood, as well as the gradual migration of residents to suburban areas like Parma following the war. Throughout the interview, Ziemba provides insight into the social fabric, cultural practices, and changing dynamics of Tremont during his formative years.

Interviewee

Ziemba, Edmund (interviewee)

Interviewer

Cleary, Christine (interviewer)

Project

Tremont History Project

Date

3-7-2003

Document Type

Oral History

Transcript

Christine Cleary: What is your name?

Edmund Ziemba: Edmund Ziemba

Christine Cleary: When were you born and when did you live in Tremont?

Edmund Ziemba: I was born in 1933. We lived here on Jefferson Ave. until I was twelve years old. After World War II, we moved up to Starkweather between W14th Street and Scranton. Thehome is no longer there; they took it for the freeway. We lived there for several years. I got drafted into the army after high school and my parents moved to Parma.

Christine Cleary: Why did your parents move into Tremont?

Edmund Ziemba: My grandfather came here originally from Poland at the end of the nineteenth century. He may have been the first of his family to come here. He was just a young man. At the turnof the twentieth century, this was a predominantly Polish, German, Ukrainian, and Russian neighborhood. The nationalities had a tendency to settle together. It was going tobe either here or the other big Polish neighborhood in Slavic Village off of Broadway.For some reason he settled in this area and started his family. They lived on the libraryside of this street. My grandfather had a bar that he ran right next door to the library onJefferson Street. Later, he built a place right across the street. I have an older brother and a younger brother. We were all born in this neighborhood, not in a hospital. We were all born at home. I can remember the day when my younger brother was born. I remember my mom giving birth right in the bedroom. Women didn’t go to hospitals in those days. I believe my grandfather settled in this area because of friends.

Christine Cleary: Was a foreign language spoke in your home?

Edmund Ziemba: Yes, Polish was spoken a lot, however both my grandmother and grandfather spoke verygood English. Even though they came from Poland, they took the time to learn Polish. Iknew people whose parents could hardly speak a word of English.

Christine Cleary: Tell me about your home across the street?

Edmund Ziemba: My grandparents lived in the brick house. My grandfather built it. He had a bardownstairs. When prohibition hit, my grandfather must have been a slick old guy. Thegarage in the back, he had a grease pit built in it. He used to park his car over it. Mygrandfather knew how to drive a car but he did not know how it ran. I believe the greasepit served another purpose. He stashed the booze there. He wasn’t going to go out ofbusiness just because they passed a law. He did that for a while and then he changed hisway of life. He and a group of friends started the first Polish bank right on Professor Ave.

Christine Cleary: Where did you go to school?

Edmund Ziemba: I went to Tremont through the seventh grade. At that time they shifted a few of the gradesand sent them to Lincoln High School on Scranton. It is no longer there. It was replacedby Lincoln West. Lincoln then became a five or six year school.

Christine Cleary: Where did you graduate from high school?

Edmund Ziemba: I graduated from Lincoln High School and we just had our 50th high school class reunionlast September.

Christine Cleary: When you were younger, what did you do for entertainment? I realize thePark was a couple blocks away and it sounds like you didn’t have a very big back yard.

Edmund Ziemba: It was a different era. We played a lot at the Tremont School yard. We played a lot at thepark, even at night. Our parents did not have to worry about us.

Christine Cleary: So, there wasn’t a lot of crime?

Edmund Ziemba: No, there were police officers that used to walk the beat. We didn’t lock our doors. Wedidn’t have anything to steal either but we still didn’t have to lock our doors. In thisneighborhood, everyone knew each other. We didn’t have television but we had radio. Atnight you entertained yourself by listening to the radio. I used to come here at night andread books till it closed. I did have some favorite radio programs like the Lone Ranger.My dad was an avid reader and I became an avid reader through him. We could play inthe streets. There wasn’t the traffic that you have today. There were cars but not thatmany. We would play football in the streets and baseball at Tremont School. We alsoplayed football and baseball at Lincoln Park. There was also the Merrick House; it was acommunity center. Years ago it used to be just like an old house. We had a small clubthat we formed and the Merrick House provided us with a woman as our advisor. Theclosest YMCA was quite a way from here off of W25th Street on Franklin Ave. We usedto walk there and walk back home at night. None of the kids that I grew up with, parentshad automobiles.

Christine Cleary: Did your parents have an automobile?

Edmund Ziemba: No, we rode public transportation.

Christine Cleary: What type of transportation was available?

Edmund Ziemba: Before public buses, there were the trackless trolleys. They were like a bus but theyhooked up to electrical wires up above like a normal electric trolley. At W25th Street youcould catch the electric trolleys. By trolley, you could go anywhere in the city. A transferwas for free and then they charged a penny. Every Saturday we would go to JenningsTheater in the afternoon.

Christine Cleary: Was that here in Tremont?

Edmund Ziemba: It used to be on W14th Street. It is no longer there. They tore it down.

Christine Cleary: Do you remember how much it cost to go to the movies?

Edmund Ziemba: A nickel for two movies, a serial and cartoons. I remember when they raised it to a dimemy brother and I were broken hearted.

Christine Cleary: How old were you when you were going to the movies by yourself?

Edmund Ziemba: My brother and I were about seven and eight years old. We would walk there and walkback home at night. Our parents knew where we were going and when we would behome. There was never any fear that something would happen. It was a different world.

Christine Cleary: Did you go into the city or to the beach?

Edmund Ziemba: We would ride our bikes to Edgewater Park. When I got older and in high school, onSundays we would go to the Garden Theater. It was on W25th Street. Sunday afternoonat the Garden that’s where all the high school kids would hang out.

Christine Cleary: What would you do there?

Edmund Ziemba: We would watch a movie and hang out. Entertainment was cheap. My parents didn’t have much. We did always have clean clothes and plenty to eat and a place to sleep.

Christine Cleary: Where did your parents do their shopping?

Edmund Ziemba: There used to be a grocery store on the corner of Jefferson and Professor. There were twoof them, one on the east side and one on the west side. We primary shopped at the one onthe west side. On Saturdays we went to the W25th Market by bus. We used to buy ourmeats, cheeses, dairy products, fish and fresh fowl. Across the street, there was a guywho sold fresh fowl. My mother would pick out a chicken. He would whack the head offand put it in a bag. My mother would take it home and throw it in a pot of hot boilingwater. She would pull the feathers off and then singed it over the stove. You could smellthe quails burning. She would have to clean it out too. I used to go with my grandfatheron the roof to the pigeon coop. I used to grab one and then put it in a burlap bag. Hewould show me how to behead them. We would have roast squaw. It would be absolutelydelicious. There is nothing like corn fed squaw.

Christine Cleary: What type of job did your father have?

Edmund Ziemba: He just worked in factories and plants. That’s what most people in this neighborhood did.

Christine Cleary: Was he in a union?

Edmund Ziemba: I’m sure he was. I never really paid much attention.

Christine Cleary: Did he ever lose his job during the depression?

Edmund Ziemba: He did lose his job during the depression. It was tough at that time but we alwaysmanaged to have something to eat. We squeaked through. When WWII came along everyyoung man from this neighborhood disappeared for four years. Everyone that I personallyknew went to the front lines. What was amazing was that everyone that I knew cameback. They all made it. In Tremont at Lincoln Park there used to be a memorial. It was ahuge white monument that had the names of every guy from the Tremont area that died.It was full. You would see flags hanging in the windows. They had blue stars, one star foreach son in the service. Gold stars for each one that died. Walking around theneighborhood, there were not too many homes that did not have those little flags hangingin the windows. My uncle was with the Hundred First Airborne in a glider at Normandy.He was one of the guys in Private Ryan. He survived. He told me the horror stories whenI was young. I saw the movie Private Ryan and trust me it was worse than that. With allthe mortar shells you could still hear the screams of all the guys getting hit.

Christine Cleary: Was church an important part of your family life?

Edmund Ziemba: St. John Cantius was the Polish Catholic Church in the neighborhood. It was very big. Iremember you had to do two things at Easter. On Good Friday you had to go to church.The inside of that church is very elaborate. It has stained glass windows and has allmarble floors. It is quite beautiful. I don’t know if this is a Polish tradition or a St. John Cantius tradition but on Good Friday you had to start at the back of the church on the marble floor and go on your knees to the alter and kiss the crucifix that was laying there.The next day mother would prepare a big basket of all the food she had made for EasterSunday. There would be kielbasi, eggs and a little bit of everything. I would take it to thechurch to have it blessed. That was on Saturday before Easter. The other big Polishtradition happens on Christmas Eve. The whole family would get together for a bigChristmas Eve spread. One of the things that would get passed around was a wafer thatwas blest. Everyone would break off a little piece. Men and women would give eachother a kiss and pass on their best wishes to each other.

Christine Cleary: Where did you have these dinners, at your grandparent’s house?

Edmund Ziemba: Yes, that was the focal point. Everyone would come. Everyone would bring something.

Christine Cleary: Did the church help your family during the depression when your father lost his job?

Edmund Ziemba: I really don’t know. People helped each other. I can remember when times were toughand men would come asking for handouts. These were guys down on their luck. Theycouldn’t find jobs. If my mother could scrap together a sandwich or a bowl of soup, shewould give them a sandwich or a bowl of soup. That was not uncommon. It was a toughtime. People helped each other and they didn’t expect anything for it. If someone wasdown on their luck, you tried to give them a hand. I think everybody realized they were inthe same boat. It could happen to any of them.

Christine Cleary: I would like to go back to transportation, what were the roads made out of?

Edmund Ziemba: They were primarily brick. They were paving bricks. They are big, red and smooth. Theyweigh thirteen pounds a piece. You could drive a tank over these things. All of the roadsaround here used to be paving brick. I don’t know if they tore them up or just paved overthem. In the wintertime when it snowed they didn’t put salt on the streets. They would godown to the steel mills to get the slag and cinders. They would spread that.

Christine Cleary: How did they do that, from trucks?

Edmund Ziemba: Yes, from trucks. That’s is how they handled things back then. The garbage trucks werenot like you see today. They were wide-open trucks with guys in the back of the truckstanding in garbage. You would just throw the garbage out of the cans. Most womenwould wrap it up in newspapers. When the guys tossed it in it would come unraveled. Inthe summer there was a whole herd of flies going down the road with them. There werehorse drawn carts. Have you ever heard of the paper rags man? They would come downwith their carts yelling “Paper rags, paper rags”. People would take their junk out to himand he would give them a few pennies. Most of them smoked and the foil on cigarettepacks got pealed off. People would hand over a big ball of this foil. It was worth a coupleof bucks so was balls of old string. They almost went out of business in WWII. In WWIIthere use to be scrap metal drives. It would usually emanate out of the school. Theywould tell the kids when there was going to be a scrap metal drive.

Christine Cleary: That was donations? People would give donations.

Edmund Ziemba: They would haul all this stuff away to be remelted. They had saving bond drives. Theycalled them war bonds and war stamps. Did you ever hear of tax stamps? In the state ofOhio when you went shopping and paid state taxes you would get a tax stamp. If you paidfifteen cents worth of state taxes they would give you a fifteen cents tax stamp. Youwould collect all these stamps and they would have stamp drives at school. The schoolwould submit them to the State and they would get money back to go buy books. As kids,we would go door to door collecting tax stamps.

Christine Cleary: Did the schools have any other type of fundraisers?Ziemba;No not like in the schools today.

Christine Cleary: Did there used to be ice-trucks?

Edmund Ziemba: There used to be a little icehouse on Professor Ave. I used to take my wagon and go gettwenty five pounds of ice for my mother. I would haul it back for the icebox. We did nothave a refrigerator. We got our first refrigerator when we moved up to Starkweather.

Christine Cleary: Did you have flush toilets?

Edmund Ziemba: Yes we did. That was one of the things we did have. When I was in Korea there were noflush toilets. It is tough in the wintertime.

Christine Cleary: What did your parents do for entertainment? Did they go to your grandfather’s bar?

Edmund Ziemba: I don’t remember the bar. My grandfather had already converted it to a grocery store. Hehad started the bank and he was running the bank.

Christine Cleary: Did they go to different dance halls?

Edmund Ziemba: Every nationality in this neighborhood had it’s own club. There was the Polish NationalHome across from Lincoln Park. It was on Literary Street. Ukrainian National Home wason W14th Street near Fairfield. The Russian church was St. Theodosius on Starkweatherand Professor. I do know that the Russian people had a hall on the east side so I don’t 8know if they had something here. Just about every nationality had it’s own church andclub. Weddings were a big deal to go to. Weddings were a lot different then. When thewomen went to the weddings they ended up in the kitchen cooking. There were no caters.Weddings were not catered the women chipped in and helped. I don’t know what the mendid maybe they just drank a lot and danced. The kids were not left at home. They drankpop and ran around the hall. People liked to go to movies.

Christine Cleary: Did they go to the amusement park?

Edmund Ziemba: Twice a year we would go to Euclid Beach Park. My mom told me that when her and mydad were younger Euclid Beach Park had a bandstand. They would have Saturday nightdances. They would bring in big name bands. They would love to go there and dance.They had a roller rink and my mom would like to watch the young people skate while mybrother and I went on the rides. Men worked extremely hard and they didn’t make a lot ofmoney. They were hard jobs and when they came home they were tired. Theirentertainment was reading the paper having a couple of drinks and going to bed. Theyhad to get up and do it all over again. Entertainment was a weekend thing on Saturdayand Sunday afternoon. Sunday afternoon was generally a big dinner. It seemed to alwaysbe up at my grandparents. Guys would sit around and play penucle and cards. There werea lot of bars in the neighborhood so you know a lot of guys were spending time in thebars.

Christine Cleary: Did they have the Bathhouse and could you explain what it was?

Edmund Ziemba: The concept of the Bathhouse was to allow the men to come up from their dirty jobs inthe mills and factories and to go into the steam rooms and the showers to get cleaned offand to relax.

Christine Cleary: Where was it located?

Edmund Ziemba: It was right on Starkweather across from the park. Right now it is a fascade front andupscale condos in the back. At one time it was a community center and in the back wewould go play basketball. They had open hard courts in the back. The primary conceptwas for the guys to have someplace to go to relax after working hard all day. There mayhave been a lot of homes in this area that did not have indoor baths. That provided aplace.

Christine Cleary: Do you remember the name of your grandfather’s bank?

Edmund Ziemba: It was the Lincoln Savings and Loan. It is still there. It is on Professor and part of ThirdFederal now. I don’t know if it had a name prier to that. I remember my grandfather washeld up once. Apparently, they tried to run the bank very frugally. The purpose of thesavings and loan company as established in the State of Ohio back then was do only onething and one thing only. It was to provide loans to buy homes. They were not banks.They were savings and loans companies and that was their charter. They tried to run theseplaces as frugal as they could so they could have money for people to borrow to buyhomes. They knew how much that meant to people to own a home. They were beingcharged these enormous fees by the armored truck companies to bring in cash. Theydecided to do it themselves. Somebody knew they were doing it. They were driving inmy grandfather’s car and just before they got to the bank they were cut off. Some maskedmen held guns to them and had them give them all their money. Today it doesn’tsound like much but twenty-five thousands dollars around 1950 was a lot of money. Hehad to pay for it out of his own pocket. The two of them had to pay for it themselves.They tried to do the best they could to help people. It had to have been an inside job.They never did find out who did it.

Christine Cleary: Did other family members work at the bank?

Edmund Ziemba: No, my Uncle Ben ended up being a baker because he married a baker’s daughter. MyUncle Chester became a factory worker. My Aunt Helen married a physician.

Christine Cleary: That brings up a good point, when you went to the doctor’s did you go to a Polish doctor?

Edmund Ziemba: My Aunt’s husband was a Polish man and is who mostly treated us.

Christine Cleary: Did you have to travel far to go to the doctor’s?

Edmund Ziemba: He would come to the house and only when we were sick. You didn’t go for check ups.There was a clinic. At Tremont Grade School they used to bring in portable dentalequipment. Dentist would come in and all the kids would get examined. If kids neededwork done on their teeth then they would do it.

Christine Cleary: Was that all done for free?

Edmund Ziemba: Yes it was. I remember at Lincoln High School, I may have been in the seventh or eighthgrade, they did fluoroscopes. That was done for free. Back then tuberculosis was aprevalent disease. They would examine your chest with a fluoroscope. I don’t know howwell you could see with these things. They were not x-rays. I have a vague memory ofhaving it done once at the school. Most people could not afford to send children to thedoctor’s for every sniffle. They had home remedies. I remember drinking hot milk withmelted butter in it. I don’t know what it did for you but I had to drink it. Also cod-liverpills, I hated that stuff. For a sore throat there was tea and honey. You went to the dentistif you had a toothache which was usually too late. Fortunately for me I still have all myown teeth. Both of my brothers are dentists. I remember my father and my mom andgrandparents had dentures. It was expected. Sooner or later your teeth would go bad andyou would get dentures. I remember up at the school again when I was young; theywould bring in doctors and speakers. They would try to get in as many people into theauditorium as possible. They would have lectures on health and cleanliness. They wouldtry to get people more aware of it. You have to remember that people just didn’t have themoney. It was a community event that went on for several days. They talked aboutkeeping your yards clean so you don’t have rodent infestation. People lived very close toeach other and the interface with the neighbors was quite traumatic. Look at all thosefront porches, people would sit on those porches and talked to each other. Some of myfondest memories are sitting on the front porch with the radio playing an Indians game.Neighbors would stop to sit and for a couple of hours stay talking. Communities weredifferent because no one had cars or television. One form of entertainment was being aneighbor. It was nice. My fondest memories are summer evenings sitting on a porch withmy dad, neighbor men and some of my buddies listening to a ball game. Just about everyhouse had a porch for that reason.

Christine Cleary: Why did your parents move out of Tremont after the Korean War? Was the neighborhoodstarting to change or did they want to buy a single family home?

Edmund Ziemba: They bought the house on Starkweather, which was a double. They had renters upstairs.There was probably a slow exit of people moving out. One of the firsts was my bestfriend John who lived on Professor. He was a Russian. They rented and bought their firsthouse in Old Brooklyn. That was quite a ways out there. When I was a kid, me and a fewother guys maybe four times a year we would walk from here all the way out to Parma.We would spend the day in the woods. It was a wooded area and we had some favoritespots we liked to go to. We would walk all the way back. We would think nothing of it.

Christine Cleary: Were you in high school then?

Edmund Ziemba: No, I was going to Tremont. It was a long walk but we would get there. We would have aheck of a good time but it was tough getting back. My parents bought their home veryclose to there. I really can’t answer why that big exit took place. One thing could havebeen that the buses started to run out there. They switched from the trackless trolleys andthe trolleys to diesel buses. Once the buses started going out there, the developers startedto go out there. Post WWII the economy was initially not doing that well. Around 1948and 1949 it started to boom again. A lot of veterans went to college on the GI bill. Whenthey started to develop those areas many saw an opportunity to get out. They got biggeryards. I remember my grandfather telling my mom and dad that they were crazy for goingall the way out there. Once they moved out there my grandfather would come over. Hesaid that they were getting old and maybe after the sons moved out they could move in.They loved this neighborhood and the only reason they moved out was because hesuffered a stroke. They finally had to leave. They moved in with my dad’s sister and herphysician husband. They just hated to leave this neighborhood. Their church was hereand all their friends. My friend Ron and his parents lived on Professor almost next to St.John Cantius. Ron became a very successful investor. When his mom was in her eightieshe could not get her to leave that house. There were bullet holes in the windows that shehad to have replaced and still she would not leave.

Christine Cleary: What year was this?

Edmund Ziemba: This was just in the last ten or maybe fifteen years. She lived in that house till she died.I’ll bet there is still some old timers living here.My grandfather had a farm out on Brookpark Road, what today would be Brooklyn. Hewould pile us in his 1933 Dodge. We would head out to that farm on a Saturday orSunday and stay all day. We would play baseball out in the field running through the cowpies.

Christine Cleary: Did you travel another place outside the city or was everything here? Did you goDowntown for clothing?

Edmund Ziemba: You would not believe how nice downtown Cleveland used to be. It was gorgeous. It wasemaculate and clean. The stores were magnificent and there were a lot of them. Sterling-Linder Davis used to have a store that was the up class store. My mother liked to take mein there at Christmas time because they had the most gorgeous Christmas tree. Thedecorations downtown at Christmas time were just beautiful. It was really something tosee the displays in the windows. My mom would go to the May Company predominately.May Company had a big store on the corner of Ontario and Prospect. Higbee’s wasacross the street. Sterling-Linder was down near Playhouse Square. Halle’s wasdowntown. There were a lot of big department stores where people could buy clothing.There were dry good stores in the neighborhood where men could get work clothes andthings like that. For shoes you went to the corner shoe store. You didn’t go downtown.

Christine Cleary: So here in Tremont there were little Mom and Pop Shops?

Edmund Ziemba: Yes, there were grocery stores and drug stories, dry good stores and shoe stores. Therewere delicatessens.

Christine Cleary: Was there any type of diners or restaurants in this area?

Edmund Ziemba: One of my favorite places was a hotdog shop right on Starkweather and the corner ofScranton Road. The guy had the best hotdogs I ever tasted in my life. I can’t rememberthe name of it. On W25th Street there were restaurants. W25th Street was a businessdistrict for shopping and for going to restaurants. W25th was a prosperous street at onetime. It had theaters and men stores. It had a photography studio where I had my seniorpictures taken. I had my first Holy Communion picture taken at a photography studioright here on Professor Ave.

Christine Cleary: Were there enough shops in Tremont to keep you in the community?

Edmund Ziemba: My mother bought most of her stuff in that corner grocery store. On Saturdays to getproduce we would go to W25th Street Market. Remember we didn’t have bigrefrigerators. We had little iceboxes. We couldn’t keep a lot of stuff. You did not shop formeat for a whole week. You couldn’t freeze it. The icebox would keep it chilled.Whatever she was going to cook that day she would go buy it. Just like that chicken thatshe worked on right away. I would go with her and carry bags. That was not one of myfavorite chores. I used to deliver newspapers, the Cleveland Press.

Christine Cleary: Was that a daily newspaper and was it delivered in the morning or afternoon?

Edmund Ziemba: It was a daily paper delivered in the afternoon. That was a tough chore. When you are ayoung kid, you want to be playing ball in the summer but you have to go deliver thepapers.

Christine Cleary: How old were you when you were delivering papers?Ziemba; 13I was nine. When we moved to Starkweather I still came over here to deliver papers.

Christine Cleary: Where did you pick up your papers?

Edmund Ziemba: I picked them up right at the corner of Professor and Starkweather. My route was part ofStarkweather to a little street that runs parallel to Professor. It was all of Professor and upJefferson. I had one hundred and something customers.

Christine Cleary: Did you have a wagon that you put them in?

Edmund Ziemba: I had to on Friday’s because the Press was big. That was the only time I used a wagon.The other times I would carry them on my shoulders. I had a bag draped on eachshoulder.

Christine Cleary: Was that a seven day a week paper?

Edmund Ziemba: It was a six-day paper. The Plain Dealer was the only Sunday paper. There were threenewspapers at that time. There was the News, the Press and Plain Dealer. The News andthe Press were afternoon papers. The Plain Dealer was the morning paper and the Sundaypaper.

Christine Cleary: Was that how you earned your income to use for the movies?

Edmund Ziemba: I never saw any of that money. It went for the first house that we bought. I would deliver the papers, collect the money and turn it over to my mother. She would give me what I needed for the movies or an ice cream cone. I never thought anything else about it. It didn’t bother me. I’m positive that other guys did the same thing. It was a family endeavor. The only thing that I ever got mad at my mother for was when I came home from the army. They were living in Parma. I had a great baseball collection and she threw them out. You would buy baseball cards with packs of gum. We used to trade them or gamble for them. We used to pitch them. At my grandfather’s building we would go out to the curb and pitch pennies. You would toss a penny and the one closest to the wall, won them all. We did the same things with baseball cards. If you got a leaner everyone would try to knock it down because that was an automatic winner and he takes everything. We would shoot agates or marbles. The marbles we use to have were magnificent. I used to have thousands of them. I was the best marble shooter in the Tremont area. We used to play for keeps. We would draw a big circle and throw so many in. I forget how we would chose who went first. Everyone had their favorite shooter. The 14marbles would get thrown into the circle and you would shoot your marble into another marble. If that marble went out of the circle you would keep it. She threw all those out too.

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