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Marilyn Brooks interview, 22 November 2024

Abstract

Marilyn Brooks discusses memories from her early life living in Hough and other neighborhoods on the east side of Cleveland. She talks about her family, her activism, and her relationship with Cleveland. At the end of the interview, she emphasizes the importance of racial diversity in Cleveland and beyond.

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Interviewee

Brooks, Marilyn (interviewee)

Interviewer

Carubia, Ava (interviewer)

Project

Union-Miles

Date

11-22-2024

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

62 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Marilyn Brooks interview, 22 November 2024" (2024). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 483005.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1348

Related Resources

Union-Miles @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Ava Carubia [00:00:00] I’m recording right now. So I’m going to start out the interview with just my little spiel. Today is November 22nd, 2024. My name is Ava Carubia, and I’m here at the Thea Bowman center in Cleveland, Ohio, interviewing Ms. Marilyn Brooks for the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project. Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed today.

Marilyn Brooks [00:00:18] Oh, you’re more than welcome.

Ava Carubia [00:00:20] And then for the record, can you please state your name, your birth date, and where you were born?

Marilyn Brooks [00:00:25] My name is Marilyn Elizabeth Brooks. Excuse me, my lungs. And my birthday is 11/22/1949. And my, what did you ask me?

Ava Carubia [00:00:40] Where you were born.

Marilyn Brooks [00:00:41] I was born. I was born in Cleveland, Ohio.

Ava Carubia [00:00:45] All right.

Marilyn Brooks [00:00:46] I was born off 22nd and Scovill. And then instead of it being the freeway, highway, you could walk across that little bridge. Now is. Yeah, I can talk louder. Now, it’s got that highway underneath it. That wasn’t there. That was the Blackstone Church,

Ava Carubia [00:01:17] Okay.

Marilyn Brooks [00:01:18] And at the Blackstone Church, when I was a little girl growing up, I went to Harmon Elementary, that was off of 22nd and Scovill. I went to the Blackstone Church because that’s where the nuns and the priests were. And they were teaching us things as little children. No, bigger than that. Maybe like that. They were teaching us how to make candles, how to make those big, round, circled candy. Suckers. And it was teaching us how to be mannerable. And they were teaching us about Jesus. So in my world, Jesus has always existed. I ignored him for a while. But when it came to time to be smacked in the face, I was ready because of the nuns. Now, down there was a recreation center where the children used to go and swim. I remember that. And they had two pans. And you put your feet inside of this solution in the pans. And the children. Then once we stepped in the pans, then we could go and get in the swimming pool. Once we came out of the swimming pool, then you could walk and put your feet back in the pans. But one was for going in, one for coming out.

Ava Carubia [00:02:56] Where was that?

Marilyn Brooks [00:02:57] That was Harmon Elementary.

Ava Carubia [00:02:59] It was at Harmon Elementary. The pool was there?

Marilyn Brooks [00:03:01] Yeah.

Ava Carubia [00:03:02] Okay.

Marilyn Brooks [00:03:02] Yeah, it was nice, then, because it was. What, how many? It wasn’t a whole lot of people. I mean, you know, not like it is now. Cleveland is an interesting place to grow up in. This was one of the cities that they said was a family town. You could raise your family here. And it didn’t cost a lot. And people cared about people then. People don’t care about people now. Your life and my life is not worth anything. But back then it was worth a lot. My brother got lost and he went to the, I think it was First Priest. And I think that was then, downtown. He ran away from home. The police got him, called my parents, “your son is here.” We got there, he was eating cake, ice cream, milk. And I was like, I should run away from home. But anyway, that was all at Harmon. Now when we moved away from Harmon, I’m trying to think. We moved to 93rd and Wade Park, and that’s where I finished growing up until I became an adult.

Ava Carubia [00:04:21] And what year did y’all move over there?

Marilyn Brooks [00:04:24] I was six. I think I was six years old. Yeah, because I remember I grew up on 93rd. If you coming down 93rd, right in front of you was a prophylactic warehouse where they made prophylactics. So we would see them. We’re children, remember that. We would see them laying around the building. And as children, we thought they were balloons that hadn’t been, that hadn’t been blown up. So we would go get them and blow them up. On the corner was a drugstore. If you went to the drugstore that was on. What is that? I can see it just as clear. I come through there all the time. If you went to the drugstore, you had ice cream. The old fashioned ice cream parlor, where you went up and got on the stool. And the ice cream came in a great big clear cup, clear glass, best ice cream in the world. Big scoops, cherry on top. Oh, man, I can really remember that. Now, it’s a small mall. Yeah, it’s a small mall there. And it’s got a grocery store. And you used to go in there and get your license, your driver’s license. I don’t think that’s there anymore either. I’m trying to remember. I remember my dad wanted some soft. He wanted some soft pork. And we went in there and a lot of guys, young guys hanging out, talking smack. And I’m like, what? You don’t see him? I don’t care about you not seeing me, but you don’t see him. It’s called respect. We had to respect our elders. Then after I left out of there with my dad because I loved, I’m a daddy’s girl. Dad’s dead and gone now, but we went. Where did we go? I don’t. You will never know about this place. It was on 6th Street, downtown. It was called. I think I told you a story about that. That was the East Side Market. Yeah, that was the East Side Market. Now, our baseball stadium is there. And there, then, you could get free chitlins. You could get free. What do are they called, oxtails?

Ava Carubia [00:07:37] Wow.

Marilyn Brooks [00:07:38] Oh, yeah. These were things that they gave away. You could get pigtails, sometimes pig feet and something else. Maybe every now and then they would throw in a few neck bones. But that was downtown. Now, it’s a delicacy. Look how much you have to pay for oxtails. Look how much you have to pay for a little tiny bag of chitlins. I don’t eat them anymore. But when I was eating them, they didn’t cost what they cost now for that little bag. It’s like, what, 20, 30 dollars? When they used to give it away, I’m like, times have changed. Where Luke Easter is now, where we are, this was all park. All. No, we’re not at Luke Easter. That’s Zelma George. That was all park. When we were little kids, we used to go there for Easter egg hunts. Our parents would dress us up, I guess we looked cute, and we’d have that whole park was nothing but Easter egg. And the little ones, we’d go around picking up, put them in our little baskets, all in front of that. Now when you see houses, that didn’t exist. There was no gas stations. There was no family dollar. All forest. I remember going downtown with Daddy to watch the Indians. Then they were the Indians, not the Guardians play baseball. I never liked baseball. I never could understand why 12 grown men were chasing after this little ball. My daddy tried everything to make me like baseball. Nah. My brother and my dad, y’all can have it. But we would go down to the baseball field, and that was. That was downtown. And they had, you know, where. I’m not good with names. I was a social worker, so I was not. I’m not good with names. I just. I’m good with faces. If I see your face, I recognize it. When I came in, I thought I recognized you. I looked at you and I said, okay. I didn’t know you were the one I was supposed to talk to. But there, where the airport off the lake. What is the name?

Ava Carubia [00:10:25] The Burke Lakefront-

Marilyn Brooks [00:10:26] Yes. That’s where we used to go when we were little children. I think I was 7 or 8, and my brother was 6 or 5. And we would go with Daddy to see the inside of big planes. Because those planes to this day were huge, and we could go in them. And it always fascinated me because I was little, I was young, but it was big. And to this day, every now and then, they’ll bring out one of those planes. And to this day, still fascinates me. Huge. And they were all steel gray. I was like, daddy, you was in one of these? Because he was in World War II. And he said, “Yeah, daughter, I was in one of these.” And he looked at me, he said, “What do you think?” I said, “I think it’s too big for you to be in. Come on, let’s go.” My daddy, he used to think, this one here is something else. Me. But I remember that. I remember the lake. And the lake was. The lakefront was not like it is now. It was smaller. Believe it or not, it was smaller. I remember the older gentlemen would go out on the lake wall (it was small) and fish, and they’d be catching. My daddy used to take us down there while he was fishing. He’d catch it. My mom would. He’d bring it home. My mom would cut it, take the insides out. She would scale it. Oh, some of the best eating in the world. I remember that. I remember. What was his name? It had a big clock on it on Prospect. I remember that. That’s where we went to take broken things like watches and those clocks with the little pendulum. You take it down there on Prospect, on, if I’m not mistaken, I think that was 23rd. Yeah, I think that was 23rd and Prospect. I haven’t been down there. I wouldn’t know what’s down there. Now. I work down there. So. Because I worked down there for almost 30 years, I’m not trying to go downtown. But I remember that. I remember where we called it Knocky Site. You know, the spot over the lake. It’s an army base. When we went. When I got married and had my son, we’d go up there on the hill. On the side of the hill, smack. We go up there. And it’d be a lot of families. In the summertime it’d be so hot. So we’d bring our blankets and our pillows and our children. Something to drink, something to eat. And we’d all be on the side. “Hello. Hello.” I heard my auntie’s voice one day. I was up there with my husband. And we were laying up there. And all of a sudden the hillside opened up. I stood up. Julian said, “I think we all stood up.” This is true. Right there on the very edge of Knocky Site. The army base is here. We were here. This end here opened up by like that. And a missile head came up. Yes, a missile head came up. My son was maybe nine months old. Me and Junior said, look. Everybody on the hill was looking. I don’t know whether they was testing it to see if it still worked, but there’s a missile there.

Ava Carubia [00:14:59] What year was this?

Marilyn Brooks [00:15:01] My son was born in ’68, so it had to be ’69.

Ava Carubia [00:15:05] Wow.

Marilyn Brooks [00:15:06] 1969, yeah. That was. I had never seen. It was huge. Now that, people think missiles look like they look on TV. They are huge and they do come to a point. But it was interesting because I would have thought it would have made a whole lot of noise. No, it didn’t. It just cranked. You could hear the cranking mechanism as it was. It was fascinating because the grass was there. And when it went back down and laid down, you didn’t see anything but grass. I remember that. I remember when. What did they call it? The aquarium. The aquarium was a, Knocky Site was here and on the other side of the freeway, that’s where the aquarium was. It was catty-corner. You could see it. But it was a small building. Not like now, not like it is in The Flats. It was a small building and it was round. It was circular. And you could go in there free of charge and see all the different fish. Octopus. I remember that, too. I got a pretty good memory.

Ava Carubia [00:16:43] You do.

Marilyn Brooks [00:16:44] Well, yeah. I can remember for myself. I can remember it was snowing and raining real bad. And we were on Scovill. And all of a sudden it started lightning and thundering. My mother was feeding me. I was in the high chair. I got out of [unclear]. And you could just slide out. I slid out and went and stood underneath the kitchen table when the lights came. Because the lights went out. And when they came back on, my dad was looking for me. And I didn’t say a word. I stood still because I was scared. He looked underneath to get your table and he laughed. “Come on, Boo.” Then he grabbed me and pulled [unclear] out the table. That’s how far I can remember back. So, you know, I got a good memory.

Ava Carubia [00:17:37] How old were you?

Marilyn Brooks [00:17:38] I couldn’t have been no more than maybe 18 months.

Ava Carubia [00:17:41] Wow.

Marilyn Brooks [00:17:42] Yeah, I was a little kid being fed by my mom. Yeah, that’s as far as this brain works. God it’s so good. Thank you, Father. I remember that. I remember. Oh, this is going to trip you out. We were coming home, me and Junis. My husband. My son’s name was Junis. I didn’t have any kids then, so they had to be in ’68. We were coming home and across the sky, all of a sudden, saying was like. This appeared across the sky. Huge. And I do mean that they were the color of. There’s nothing in there like that. It was a gold. So brilliant, that whoever was out on a porch because it was a summer evening, could not miss that. It was like this across the entire sky. Police. Everybody called. Everybody called and the police said, “Wow, we’re getting a lot of calls about this. You saw that?” I said, “Yeah. Who didn’t see it?” And to this day I’ve never seen it again. So I have my thoughts about that though. But I did see that. And that had to be in ’68. I’m trying to think of things that. There was a library on 105. It was where parents took their children to listen to people read books to us occasionally. That was off of Superior and 105. And they would give plays. You’d have little plays. They would read books. And every now and then we had lunch there. I loved going to the library. Even when I was in college, high school, I’ve always been a reader. (Whispers)I like reading, shh. I spent one summer in the house reading Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys. Boy, I wish I had my collection of those books now. But I remember that and I remember back in the day. Oh, thank you. Back in the day there was a horse driven flatbed truck for the rags. Because back in the day people threw old rags out. You didn’t keep things like that. Wonder why. I wonder what they were doing with those rags. Hm. It was horse-drawn and was flatbed there like this. And then there was a horse drawn flatbed truck for-

Marilyn Brooks [00:21:14] What was that one for? I think it might have been picking up things from people’s houses. Not like now. You gotta have your stuff sitting on the line probably every month. Every month you gotta have stuff thrown out as household items. They gotta be wrapped in plastic. Back then they didn’t. Back then they came in the backyard. The garbage community came in the backyard and took all the garbage cans to the front for you. I remember that. Wow. How old was I? Maybe, maybe about six or seven. I remember this is on Scovill. The fish man, he rode on one of those old fashioned bicycle things with the refrigerator thing. I guess that’s what that was. It was no bigger than from where you’re sitting to about here. And it was about this wide, but it was real deep. And it was like on the bicycle he would ride and you could buy fish, fresh fish from him. I’m trying to remember. Then there was the ice cream man. He came back and he would just scrape ice cream off for us little kids. That would be what, a nickel, maybe a penny back then. I remember that. I remember the time when they would have PTA in all the schools because my mother would go to PTA meetings. And they’re not like the parents are now. A lot of parents participated, even the fathers. My dad would go. My dad was kind of, he was a little different because my dad really. When it was time to talk about historical things, you would like my daddy, he would sit down with you and explain it to you. He would sit down and say, “Okay, this is what we’re going to talk about tonight.” And we’d be like, “Okay, what you want to talk about Daddy?” And he said, “We’re going to talk, I want to talk to y’all about what was going on when I was a little kid in Georgia.” “Okay.” My daddy used to tell us stories. What was going on down in Georgia before Martin Luther King. Wow. So I grew up a semi-activist because of my dad and my mom. My mom was a quiet one. My dad was one who, “Okay, that’s not how that spelled.”

Ava Carubia [00:24:30] Tell me how to spell it.

Marilyn Brooks [00:24:31] Okay. My dad would tell me how to spell it and he would do my mathematics with me a little. But it was my Uncle Robert. My uncle Robert owned the drugstore on 105 and St. Clair. Robert Hunt back in the day because I’m a Hunt. Well, now I’m a Brooks, but I was a Hunt. And he owned a drugstore. It was a big drugstore on the corner of 105 and St. Clair and what else? It was catty cornered to McDonald’s and I was just talking about this yesterday. Forest City Hospital. I remember that. That was on 104th off of St. Clair and where now, it’s an apartment building. I remember me and Junis going to see my uncle. I love my uncle. I’m a daddy, I’m a man, girl. I love men, always have. And I get along well with him to this day. Thank you, Jesus. I get along with men. But I remember me and Junis going to see my uncle. It was the new summer at Forest City Hill. Yeah. Because he came outside on the balcony. Wow. Then hospitals had balconies? How about that. Now it’s an apartment building that sits there. And I remember him having on his hospital gown and robe and he would come out and yell at us and look down because he was up and we went down and he would come and talk to us and yell us. Now that gentleman, bright, very, very smart Black man. He would get with me and Darren, my brother. My sister was like five years younger than us, so she wasn’t in school. But he would come after work. My father worked for Jones & Laughlin. I told you. My uncle was a mailman. Then people could. “I don’t like my job. I’m going to the steel mill.” And they would go over to the steel mill, walk in. “I needed a job.” “Okay, we’re getting this started right now.” Did you believe that? That’s the way it was. My uncle started with my dad and Jones & Laughlin, but he didn’t like it. So he went to the mail, he went to the post office, got a job, started working. Then you could do that. Can’t do that now, but I remember that. Oh, I got a lot of memories. Don’t start hurting, head. I was trying to remember something else I wanted to tell you. The Zoo! The Zoo was about as big as maybe this whole complex. That’s how small the Zoo was. And look at the Zoo now. I remember that as a little kid. Lions, tigers and bears, oh my! I remember that. Oh, wow. I should write a little memoir. But I remember. I remember the steel mill still being where they are, both of them. They’ve always been there. I remember there was a restaurant. I don’t know the name of that restaurant. I know where it is, but I don’t, It was off the freeway going towards west. I want to say West 25th. And it used to be, as you were going across to go to the west side and sit back on your left hand side. Some of the best Italian food was there. I don’t know whether that restaurant is there or not anymore, but that was there. I remember the bread store where everybody went. That was off of 55th and Superior. You could go in there and get what you could get bread for a little or nothing. I couldn’t tell you what it cost. I was too young. But my mom and my dad, we would go down there every, I think we went every Saturday morning. We went there and then we went to the East Side Market. Yeah, I remember that. Wow, you making me think about things I’ve forgotten about. I know that my aunt, my uncle had the drugstore on 105. My aunt had the beauty shop. And it was on Kinsman. About 130th, I think. And it was called Hunt’s Beauty Repair. I remember that because both of my aunt and uncle, they had money. My family grew up middle class because my father worked in the steel mill. And I was trying to think of something else. Yeah, I remember that. And then I was thinking when we were little kids coming up, how back then if something happened. Because the police district, we only had the one and it was not that big. So very seldom did the police have to come up. Very, very seldom. Because then what happened, remember that old saying? Well, I hope it’s an old saying. Because it was stupid then. How do you say what happens in the house stays in the house? No, that was stupid then. It’s stupid. It’s stupid now. Do you know how many sins was covered up at the house because Mama and Daddy said what happens in the house stays in the house? No, it doesn’t. You need to let that go and tell somebody. That’s the truth. I remember that. I remember things happening where the whole neighborhood, because everybody knew everybody. The men in the neighborhood would come and get you. Say your daddy was doing things to your mama. Hitting on her or getting drunk on her. All the men, neighborhood would come and get your dad, take him away from the house. I guarantee you when he came back, that didn’t happen. I remember that. I’m trying to think of someplace else. I remember when they built that school on 92nd between Wade Park and Superior. I cannot remember the name of the school. I remember where they built that school. I remember where. Is my time up? I remember where. Where. The apartment building on 93rd. On the end of 93rd and Wade Park and Superior. That was a school. It was all girls school. The front door was always locked. We always went in the side door on Ashbury. I remember Ashbury. But I would snuck in the front door because one of the teachers was teaching me how to play chess. Real tall man. Mr. Mitchell. Yeah, Mr. Mitchell would open the door, stand there, wait for me to get there, and then we go in. He locked the door back and he was teaching me how to play chess. I was at that age, I think I was 11 or 12. Yeah. 11 or 12.

Ava Carubia [00:34:32] So where did you go to school?

Marilyn Brooks [00:34:34] I started out at Dole elementary, which is now an apartment building on 105. Right there as you turn off of Superior. It’s on your right hand side. And then from there I went to. I went to Harry Davis. That’s where I became. I was. I like being busy. I love being busy. Keeping myself moving. And I think I was the captain of the junior varsity basketball team. As short as I am. I could shoot and I always could run. And I played softball. I was pretty busy. I jumped hurdles at Harry Davis. And then they opened up Lulu Diehl. That’s the name of the school right there on the end of 93rd where Mr. Mitchell taught me how to play chess. I went to Lulu Diehl. That was middle school. They call it middle school now. I went there. And at junior high, senior I went to East High. Then I went to John Hayes. And then I quit because I was fooling around with my son’s father. All of my kids, my three children, Lawrence Junior. Stupid. I should have kept my butt in school. But anyway, I got my GED. After that, I went to college. I didn’t want to go to. Where was it? What was the name of the community college? I didn’t want to go to the community, because that was a two year. I knew I was going to do four or I wasn’t going to go. So I went to Dyke because I like this. After that I had two opportunities and I was talking to God about it because one of them, I could have been testing for drug addicts. I’m kind of a little bit of everything, but I could have been testing for people who did drugs, a urine test. Or I could have went and worked for County. So I was crying one night to God about that because I didn’t want to, I was going to church and I didn’t want that to interfere with my time I spent with him. So I remember saying to the Lord, I don’t know what to do, Father I don’t want anything to interfere with our relationship. Because then, I was intent on building the relationship I have with him now. Not then, because I went and did my thing after that. And God told me to wait. Just like I’m talking to you. I hear “wait” twice. So I waited. I didn’t make a decision. When I did make the decision, it was the County because I was off on the weekend so I could go to church. So I remember that. County was downtown off of 9th Street. Yeah. But the neighborhood wanted to build apartments down there. That had to be 1990-I think that was the 92 or 3. And they built the building on Payne. And we were the first people in the building, the ones who worked downtown off of 9th Street because that workflow building was not there. And then gradually they built all the other little centers around the city. Now most of them are closed, but Payne is still there. I thought about going back there. Nah, I don’t. I don’t want to do that. No, my spirit is not like that anymore.

Ava Carubia [00:39:16] I want to go back to something you said a while ago. You said that your dad made you a semi-activist. Can you talk about?

Marilyn Brooks [00:39:23] Sure. My dad told me he was. My dad was six feet something tall. And like I said, I loved my dad. I was a daddy’s girl. Loved my mama. She could make things right and he couldn’t. My dad told me that, I remember he said, him and mama went back to Georgia and he dropped mama at grandma’s house and he took a ride downtown. Now, you come from Georgia, right? So you know. I know, listen. He was downtown. And back in those days that downtown was about maybe this. You know what I’m saying? And he said he rolled past this place. He said when he was a little boy, this restaurant, he could not go in. He could go in the back, but he couldn’t go in. He said. My father said he drove around the block. He said, “Daughter, I drove, kept driving around the block.” He said it was a Black man and a white woman sitting in the window in the front. He said, “I couldn’t believe it.” My father was called, my father’s name is John Henry Hunt. And they called my father the Gentle Giant. You didn’t want to oppose him, but if he had to, he knew how to take care of his business. And I remember him saying to me, daughter, that hurt me so bad. He said, “I parked down the street.” He said, “I wept.” He said, “Daughter, I had to. I just. I couldn’t stop weeping.” Oh. Okay.

Ava Carubia [00:42:12] If you want to take a second, we always can. You want to let me know if we can pause the recording.

Marilyn Brooks [00:42:26] And then he told me that because of that he wouldn’t take mama in there. That he could well afford it, but he didn’t take her there because of that. And I remember him saying. Setting us down and explaining, explaining life to us. Me and my brother and my baby sister and my mom would sit on one end of the couch. I’m sorry.

Ava Carubia [00:43:02] That’s okay. I just want to. This is completely normal. It happens all the time in these interviews.

Marilyn Brooks [00:43:07] And I remember my father saying, how. I’m gonna give you one example what happeneded to me. Always had long hair. I could settle my hair. And I was not a bad looking woman. I’m aged, aware. I know I am. I don’t look like I used to, but I kind of like the way I am now. I’m all right this, a new face. I’m all right with. I know a lot of our sisters aren’t, but me growing older is a wonderful thing because I got one in the graveyard in a box this size. So me turning 75 years old, I’m fine with that. But I remember one time when daddy and mama was talking to us, this young boy gave me a wedding ring.

Marilyn Brooks [00:44:14] He was Caucasian. I came home and showed it to my mama and my daddy. Just as far out. “Look, I’m getting married.” My father stood up, he said, “Give me that ring.” He said, “Where did you put that ring?” I grew up in a mixed neighborhood. Puerto Ricans, Caucasians, Blacks, Jews and Chinese were all in my neighborhood. And my father said, “Who gave you that ring?” So I told him. He said, “Okay, all right, I’ll be right back.” He took the ring back and explain. When he came back, I said, “Daddy, where my ring?” He said, “It’s back where it should have been with the young man who gave it to you. Probably took it from his mother.” And then he explained me. That’s how I began to see the difference between your world and mine. And because of a young man, Carmichael. I know you don’t know the name. I think it was Stokely Carmichael.

Ava Carubia [00:45:34] Yeah, Stokely Carmichael.

Marilyn Brooks [00:45:35] Yeah. He was in Cleveland, and it was off of St. Clair that they raised the, what was it? Red, black and green flag for our people. And that’s when my father and my mother sat down and told us the differences, because I never knew there was any difference. I played with Peter Schrangel. What was her name? Schrangel. Jabril Avis. Yeah. Peter Schrangel Yavis. I played with Han. I played with Larry there. I played with all kind of nationalities. All these nationalities went to school with me. So I wouldn’t have thought any differently about Caucasians and what they thought of us. So as I’m. Because I’m listening to my dad, who explained a lot of stuff to us. And I’ve always been the kind of person who, I guess you would say “Marilyn shoots straight from the hip.” A lot of people didn’t like that, but to me that was honest, rather being dishonest with you or anybody else. I must say it. I might not say it the way you want me to, but I got that from John Henry Hunt. And as I’m growing up with John Henry Hunt, Stokely Carmichael steps into my world. Angela Davis, who had the biggest afro I ever seen, she came to, ah, right there on Central. Ah, that’s Quincy, the Black theater. When we put on plays.

Ava Carubia [00:47:51] Karamu?

Marilyn Brooks [00:47:53] She came there about two years ago, so I naturally, you know, I went to see her. She hadn’t changed a bit, just gotten older fro a lot smaller. And she was smoking a cigarette. I’ll never forget it. She was smoking a cigarette and she was cussing up a storm. And I was like, wow, I remember you. I remember the things I used to tell us. I remember listening to certain music, certain artists that was pumping us up to be who we are, to be proud of who we are and the inventions that Black people contribute to this country. And when you. If you have a parent or parents like I had, you took notice of those things. Because of the way we are treated now. It’s not right. Wasn’t right then. Slavery wasn’t right. Like somebody told me I wasn’t there, but I know about it. I wasn’t born in that. My great. My grandmother. We were little and it was my mother, like I told you, my mother come from 13. 12 girls and one boy. And the boy was the baby. My grandmother said it was cotton field across the street. If I ever, ever catch any one of you playing in that cotton field, it’s going to be hell. She meant that. My grandmother said things. She meant that. And believe me, she had a bunch of. She had a lot of us. So we didn’t do that. I come from a time when you respected your elders. I told you that earlier and you listen and. And you tried to do what was right. I couldn’t make fun of somebody who had lesser. I couldn’t. If this man was blunt and falling down, I couldn’t make fun of him. Somebody might have had a stutter. I couldn’t make fun. How do you do that? You just don’t do it. We was raised that way, so we didn’t do it. We didn’t make fun of elders. We didn’t make fun of people who might be [unclear] with something. A guy asked me. I was working. Guy asked me for a cigarette.

Marilyn Brooks [00:50:52] I used to give him cigarettes. Then I thought about that. Guy asked me for a cigarette. I said, man, truthfully. Do you know how long I have to work to buy a pack of cigarettes? When you could get a job. You’re a man. You can get a job quicker than I can and buy your own cigarettes. It’s pride. You have to learn to have pride. Be proud of who you are. If I didn’t get anything from my parents, I got that. I raised my children. Have pride in who you are. Be proud of what you have achieved on this earth. If it’s just moving this person over there, be proud of that. There are some people who don’t have arms who can’t do that. But I learned that very early in life. That’s the reason why I look at people and I be like, but why? I know it’s not right. I knew it wasn’t right when I was young. And you know, it’s. It’s not right the way the races act towards one another. I respect the younger people your age more than I do the ones that’s older because prejudice comes from, it comes from the oldest. It didn’t come from your generation. So I do recognize somethings and I appreciate that. I remember when Martin Luther King. You knew I was going to bring it up. When he walked through these streets and I was holding my son.

Ava Carubia [00:53:00] What year was that?

Marilyn Brooks [00:53:03] It had to be ’68, ’69. About ’69, because my son was about. He was a baby. And I was holding him close to me and whispering things in his ear. And my son, when I’m here, most of the time when you see me, you see my boy, he out there now. And I’m like, wow, I’m thinking. And to this day I tell my son. My son takes care of me and his dad. His dad has dementia. We’re divorced, but he’s in our home. And I tell my son, he gets upset. I look at him, I said, irregardless of what you think, he’s still your dad. What the Bible says about honoring your parents, that’s all I’m going to say to you. He straightened that mess out. But what I’m saying to you is, though, I’ve seen a lot of changes, Such as, did you live? Wow. Though I’ve seen a lot of things, God has left me here to see some more. And I hope with everything in my being, if I can’t say what’s right, please, God, let me say what’s wrong and hurt somebody, please don’t let me do that. There’s a code of ethics I live by. It may be different from yours, but it’s going to wind up at the same place. I know, may not believe me, but one day you will. It was an older Black woman that told me that I was gonna wind up one day at the same place. Darn if I didn’t. It’s like watching people drive. People speed around you. I’m all right, well, go ahead. I’m trying to go somewhere and I hope to get there. And I hope you make it to your destination too. When I pull up to that light, darn thing, I’m sitting there. Same destination, just a different arrival time.

Marilyn Brooks [00:55:56] Are we done?

Ava Carubia [00:55:57] Well, I was going to ask you what message you’d like to leave for future generations, but I feel like you touched on that already. But at this point, you’ve given me so much and I’m so grateful. If there’s anything else you’d like to add that we didn’t talk about, this would be the space to do that.

Marilyn Brooks [00:56:15] Is there anything you want to know?

Ava Carubia [00:56:19] I’m looking at my notes right now. I mean, I guess you kind of mentioned this briefly, but I’d like to know more details. In what ways Has Cleveland changed specifically?

Marilyn Brooks [00:56:32] Oh, I told you, I grew up in a multi-neighborhood. Most Blacks live around most Blacks. Most whites live around most whites. Most Chicanos who live around Chicanos. Chinese people live with Chinese people. Am I wrong or right? I’m right. But when you come from a multi diverse environment, guess where I live now? I live in a multi diverse environment and I love that. I love that. I live around 65th and Fleet on a street called Hosmer. It’s white people, Black people, all kind of people around me. I like it. I don’t want to live where it’s just my people because my people can be destructive. They can curse too much. They can play their music too loud. I don’t like that. I don’t want to live around a bunch of white people because they have it to tendency to want to throw stones, write the wrong word on the garage or on the house or as I’m trying to walk. Sometimes I may not be able to do that. You don’t. You cannot, cannot judge a person’s character by looking at them.

Marilyn Brooks [00:58:18] I don’t know if you’re going through something. I don’t know if everything in your world is quite just right. I don’t know that. I don’t know if you’re a serial killer. I don’t know if you would like to listen to old school music like I do. I couldn’t possibly tell you what new music is. I don’t listen. I listen to jazz and old school and gospel. That’s my world. I love my children. Sometimes you can’t get along with children because they grow up and they go out that door and their whole world changes. But they take a lot of what you put in. And I’m happy about that. I’m real pleased with that. Because I grew up multi-diverse, I questioned a lot of things. Like when I see Blacks and whites fighting, I used to, when I was younger, would walk right into the middle of it, [unclear] style. They’d look at me, “Why are you in the middle of our fight. Old lady, move.” “No, I’m not moving. I’m not understanding. Would one of y’all please explain to me what this is about? Because we’re going to come up with a solution.” I sat there, people know me that way too. They know me that way. You know she ain’t gonna put up with it. I’m not. I don’t understand you. If I cut and you cut, that same color coming out of you is coming out of me. If I say brother to you, and I do to this day, I don’t have to know you. Men open doors. Or if I’m dancing on the floor, men come dancing in front of me. I always say, thank you, brother. And to some of my white friends, thank you, brother. You may not like to honor me because of my color, but I’m gonna always honor people. Doesn’t matter the color. I learned through this life that there are certain places within the world you can’t go. I can’t go certain places. But yet, I grew up around all kind of. The only people missing from my world were Africans. And they don’t like us. Isn’t that interesting? There are Africans my complexion. There are Africans, your complexion. But they’ll respect you before they respect me. And with that, I’m done.

Ava Carubia [01:01:52] Yeah, that was great. I’m gonna stop the recording now. Thank you so much.