Abstract
In this 2024 interview, Thea Bowman Center employee Bernard Long discusses his life growing up on E. 120th Street in the Mount Pleasant neighborhood. He describes attending Catholic school, living in the area during the Civil Rights Movement, and spending time at Boddie Studio on Union Avenue. He describes the diverse ethnicities that lived in the area and the later white flight that occurred when white families moved out of Mount Pleasant into the suburbs. He also discusses his family, his friends, the impact of music, and the role of the church.
Interviewee
Long, Bernard (interviewee)
Interviewer
Carubia, Ava (interviewer)
Project
Union-Miles
Date
11-19-2024
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
63 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Bernard Long interview, 19 November 2024" (2024). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 483001.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1352
Transcript
Ava Carubia [00:00:01] All right, so that’s recording, and we should be good. Just for the record, today is November 19, 2024. My name is Ava Carubia, and I’m here at the Thea Bowman center interviewing Bernard Long for the Cleveland Regional Oral History project. Thank you, Mr. Long, for agreeing to be interviewed today. And for the record, can you please state your name, your birthday, and where you were born?
Bernard Long [00:00:30] That’s Bernard Long. And my birthday is […] 1954. I was born right here in Cleveland. Yeah. Somewhere around 55th Street.
Ava Carubia [00:00:45] All right.
Bernard Long [00:00:46] There used to be a hospital down there.
Ava Carubia [00:00:47] There used to be a hospital. Do you remember the name of it?
Bernard Long [00:00:49] No.
Ava Carubia [00:00:50] Okay. All right. So can you tell me just a little bit about your early life growing up in this neighborhood? What was it like growing up here?
Bernard Long [00:00:59] Oh, man, it was. It was. It was. It was. It was something. It was really something because, well, you know, this was a diverse community. When I was coming up, I think the neighborhood that I live in right now was basically Italian, Slavic, and Jews lived in this area. And my mom had me when she was 17. So I was raised with my mom and my grandparents. So I remember I used to call my grandmother mom. Called my mom Pat because they straightened me out. I said no, this is mom. So they would talk to me and they would tell me, call my grandmother Mama, and I called my mom, Mom. So it was great. I went to school here. Oh, my God. And it was, of course, it was a Catholic school. It was mostly whites in the area. We were probably the first Black people to move in on 120th Street. I mean, just a few families. So I remember all the other families and stuff. And it was something, you know, we were raised Christians, you know, Catholic. You know, my grandfather was auxiliary police in the police department. My grandmama was just a housewife and so. And it was, man, it was a great time for me. I just. I know I had. That’s my first experience of love, you know, that family thing, that close-knit Grandma, Mom. And then as you know, we start going to school and stuff, the social circle got a little bit larger and you still try to stay in the same. Well, that’s what Christianity is all about. It’s trying to be about the love, I suppose. And so your social circle expands and you. And this was a time when, then, you know, it was coming up civil rights and stuff. So a lot of things were going on, you know, and we’re learning about God, and then on one hand, you see civil rights. So that’s a lot to take in for a child. Because I remember sitting in the classroom right over there, you know. You know, they’re teaching us all about religion and all the “God is the supreme being, made all things”. And Ms. Dohman comes in the classroom crying like a baby. They done shot the president, right? Okay. Everybody went down like dominoes. Everybody’s crying and boohooing and stuff. So then you start having you perspective grows as we grow, you know, because, you know, in those times, you know, it had. You know, my dad, my stepfather, you know, he came up from Kentucky, and him and my mom got married and they had. He was working for the telephone company, Ohio Bell. And there’s so much history there, you know, he’s worked for Ohio Bell, and they had the Hough riots. Okay? This was. This was. You know, it was just a clash between the Blacks and the whites and stuff. And the telephone services and stuff got disrupted. It was a pretty bad scene. I remember walking outside. Where’s Hough at, man? I think it’s over there. It’s really, it was really bad scene. So we were trying to see if we could hear and see or, you know, get. It was close by. You know, my father ended up getting at Ohio Bell from the mail room, became a lineman to bring the service back into, you know, back into service. Because when nobody work over on work around but Black people, it was guns and stuff. He was serious. And, you know, he bought a house right down on 120th Street. And there was. On Holborn, the street, there’s a great big building where they have. It used to be a place where the telephone company keep all their cable and equipment to put stuff back into service. So he was in charge of that. And so we had it pretty good. He, you know, it was a good job, and he could take care of the whole family. Ma didn’t have to work, so we just go to school, come back home, you know. To me, it was. I felt like I was on solid ground. But all after that, you know, the whole Civil Rights story and stuff. So it was. That was just a challenge all the way from grade school through to high school, and, man, I been skipping by so much. You know, there’s so much. I had a rich family because my grandfather Leo had five daughters, so they all had children. So, like, I had a support group, my cousins and stuff. So there was quite a few of them, and we’re all over the place. So I had people in every school district. So we were just, most of the time, just trying to be social, you know, because at the same time, we were having Civil Rights. We had the wars going on, you know, so. And I was really a big part or light, like, you know, the peace movement, you know, like Woodstock and music and let’s no war, you know, and it’s a lot, you know, that we had. Of course, you know, I went all the way through school, you know, and we had, you know, Kent State, you know, it’s like, man, here’s children protesting and they’re getting shot up, you know, so. And then Christianity on your mind, and then the reality. It’s a big difference what you, you know, the Bible and what really is happening, you know, so it was. That was. It’s hard to stay balanced like that, but with a big family and, you know, you still got to love. There’s just those challenges of life, you know, that, you know, we all go through. It might be a little different now, you know, not much. Not much. But, man, I don’t want to lose. Skipping around.
Ava Carubia [00:08:58] Oh, no, that’s great. I want to go back to something you said. You said that your family was one of the first Black families to move into the area around 120th. Can you talk a little bit more about that? What was that like? Do you have any memories about that?
Bernard Long [00:09:13] Oh, man. A lot. Like 131st Street. And then, of course, Union and Miles, you know, that was like. That’s. That’s, like always been my stomping ground, you know. You know, there’s a lot of parks and stuff in Cleveland. I remember them teaching me that by law, they could only allow to have 60/40. 60%, but have to have 40% green space. So all through here, there was all kind of like places where you could go: Kingsbury and go play football. Pee Wee football leagues would play. And we have Woodhill Park, where we’d have baseball. My father used to go out there. He played baseball. He’s a big baseball fan from Kentucky. And we go out there sitting in the park while they’re playing the games and stuff. And we went to. My friends from school, my whole. My social circle, some of my Epiphanians and stuff. We had Boddie Studio, because we was all really liking music, you know, and Boddie Studio, Mama Boddie, she’s one of the mothers that’s there. You know, all my mothers, the children’s moms will come up and make lunch for us and in the cafeteria, and they would have good lunch, you know, so Ms. Boddie would cook, Ms. Grooms would cook. My mama come up and cook. And then they would just serve us you know, lunch, because they had a big kitchen. And it was. It was. It was. It was. It was a good time and challenging times. Yeah, it was mostly good because when you’re a kid, you just. Man, we know all about having fun, you know, it’s just not. That’s out of sight, out of mind. We just clowning around, having fun just in life. And again, I want to get off the question. You said, like my experiences of just all different ethnic groups. It was pretty cool because I went to Cleveland Central Catholic, which have four, four campuses. Two on the west side, two on the east side. So, man, that really. Man, we had the Latinos. Matter of fact, when we have first communion here, the Latinos came to, you know, our confirmation and first communion. And so the bishop will come down here, and then we have all these ethnic groups. So you got all my Chinese friends, Mr. Lazaro,[unclear]. And, you know, we just came up in school together. You know, there still might be some little friction stuff, but there we like the same, same things. Football. Sports and all that kind of stuff. It’s a. I say I feel I’m pretty fortunate, you know. You know, having that diversity, you know, you learn how to communicate on all levels and stuff, you know, because. But most of us was in agreement with the love and the peace thing, you know, that was it. Oh, I mentioned to say that Boddie Studio, well, is right around the corner.
Ava Carubia [00:12:56] What, what’s the address of it?
Bernard Long [00:12:58] Oh, my God, I don’t know. It’s a big yellow building. It’s a studio. Mr. Boddie-
Ava Carubia [00:13:03] It’s on Union?
Bernard Long [00:13:04] Yeah, he used to repair organs and stuff, and he was probably on the cutting edge. This house was like, really modern. You know, he’s. He’s pretty ingenious, Dennis. They’re all in Florida and stuff now. Mama came up for. She was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for their contribution, you know. But we used to go down there and there will be, like, pictures and plaques all along the wall with the O’Jays. And all the, you know, the music and stuff that he was involved with. My, My teacher from, uh, Hal Wyant, Mr. Vibe. He recorded at Boddie Studio at Leo’s Casino, you know, so that’s. And that was his first recording. He got a record from Boddie Studio, and they used to do primarily gospel, I think, you know, but I used to just chomp at the bit to just go over to Dennis‘, before we go to school, you know, we go pick up Clifford and jump Uncle Rogers. We would come to church early but we wouldn’t come inside. He’s just outside, just killing it. Go over to Dennis’ house and then the studio, man, there’s bass guitars and drums and stuff like that. So I was like, in heaven. So we always wanted to try and play. He said, “Don’t touch that.” Oh, man. Come on, really? So we had that, which was really nice. A lot of. Lot of 131st, man. Ms. Montello, she had a. There’s a pizza, and it was like Fisher Fazio’s. Three grocery stores on this is. This is 131st, you know. And we used to go to Hamilton and go swimming at Hamilton inside swimming pool. And on summertime you could go roller skating or outside swimming at Woodhill, you know. So we had large parks, so we could run around and play football in the streets most of the time. And we had basketball hoop out here. So the whole neighborhood would come and be playing basketball at our facilities and stuff, you know. So that was. That was kind of. That was kind of cool. Of course, you know, when you have children and stuff, you could get, you know, we could be. What’s the word I’m looking for? Territorial and stuff like that. Well, we. I skirted that because I got cousins in every school district. So we’re not trying to be about nothing but peace, you know, because there was like. When I was coming up, there’d be things like house parties, and we had those kind of things. We’re going over. We go to the house party and, you know, everybody would be throwing that. We’d throw our little 45s on and some music and stuff. And, you know, you might have some attitudes and stuff about territory and schools and girls and all that kind of thing. But we was pretty cool. We was. Being Catholic was to be sophisticated. My uncle had a good job, and so we used to be. So we had transportation, you know, that’s like, Dad, can I use a car? Things like that. So I felt like I had a little silver spoon in the group, you know. It was Catholic school boys, some of my cats, like Eric Barnett. James Johnson just had his 50th anniversary. He was a football star at Benedictine. So I remember when he graduated from school, he’d come back and tell us what the big boys were doing. I was always. I looked up to him, you know, because even during Civil Rights, he kind of got more militant, you know. And this was one guy named Reggie and James, because when we were getting Reggie to come out, we would go to John Carroll University and they would try and tell us all about the college life and stuff. And I remember James and Reggie came in. James. Reggie was going to go to Borreomeo to be a priest. And next time I seen him was when we was getting ready to go. Go just to have a little, I think it was just a week staying at John Carroll University so that, you know, people could just get together, figure out schools and all that good stuff to be, I guess, the first steps of college life. And Reggie came back in there, and they were looking. Had Black Panther, you know, I was like, whoa, Reggie, you was going to be a priest. Him and James had tams and stuff. So it was so cool because my buddies, like Joe Maple (prodigy guitar player). He’s a great guitar player. Inspired me to just want to play and stuff. And so his band, the Jays, came up to play. So I felt like I was. Man, I was like, in heaven, you know, this is my cats, man. You know, just trying to be young adults and stuff like that. And then when I seen Reggie and James, man, I was. I said, man, I’m so proud of them. I just. Looking like Black Panthers and stuff, you know. Black Panthers got a bad name, but they were really doing some good things. It was. It was a tough time. I know I’m skipping around like crazy.
Ava Carubia [00:18:41] Oh, no, this is so good. You’re giving me so much.
Bernard Long [00:18:44] It was so much. There’s a lot. Life is huge. You know, it just comes to you in bits and pieces. So I just grab it where I’m at.
Ava Carubia [00:18:53] Yeah, I want to talk. Well, first of all, it seems like music has had a huge impact on your life.
Bernard Long [00:19:03] Yeah, I mean, to me, that was being somebody, you know, I. I was never one. You know, I. I just. Just. Just the music scene was just. I don’t know, it was inspiring. Awe inspiring. Because, you know, you. I came up. I called my. I’m kind of like a little snobbish, you know, I like. You got music and then you got your musicians, musicians. Because I came up liking, of course, everybody, we liked Motown lot and stuff like that. But at the same time, I’m like digging the Beatles and. Because my grandmama, when she came back in 1963, she came in with an album. Kyu Sakamoto and the Beatles because they were the big things. You go see them on Ed Sullivan. So Kyu Sakamoto was this Japanese. I remember remembering all the words to the song (he sings part of the song). Singing that, and then the Beatles and stuff. So I was really diverse. So I’m loving everything. Then when you had Woodstock, you know, that was like the icing on the cake, man. It was the big thing, you know, Hendrix and 10 years after, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young. Janis Joplin. So you just branch out. And everybody spent a lot of time at the record store saying who knows what, you know. Chicago. This is a big part of our life. It’s like a dream. Everybody wanted to be in the NBA or everybody wanted to be a musician. My brother did pretty good, though. You know, it was like they did. They went into the Bob Marley stuff and he started playing after high school. And man, First Light, man, they were killing it. It became First Light and then the band broke up because they was getting like $10,000 a gig, you know. You know, for New Year’s. And then the band broke up. It was Carlos Jones. I don’t know if you know Carlos, but Carlos Jones. It used to be First Light and now my brother’s got Shaky Ground. And I think it’s a great genre because people always like good blues or like reggae. I don’t know, it’s, it’s infectious, you know, when you go to the club scene, you know. But they came from all walks of life because we were playing all kind of, trying to play anything and everything. That’s why I think my brother’s like a pop culture icon and stuff. He just. Rather than study music like me, I was trying to understand melody and harmony. He’s into the songs, you know, so. And all the groups and naming them and stuff. It’s, I don’t know, just music. It heals all wounds, you know, because when you’re feeling bad about something. Yeah, man. You just escape with some music, you know. I know I went off on a tangent again.
Ava Carubia [00:22:31] No, it’s okay. I’m wondering, you talked about Boddie Records. What was the music scene like in this area in particular?
Bernard Long [00:22:39] Wow. It was. It was nice. Of course, you know, we were listening to, you know, on the radio. So we listened to everything, you know, I don’t care. You at WHK, WABQ, because we might be listening. And then Funicello and you know, because then you had your Black stations and your white stations. So I met all over the place. And then we got WMMS and stuff was the underground stuff. So, you know, classical even, you know, country, not so much until later on. I dig my cats like Willie Nelson and all them, you know. I really didn’t know that much about the blues when I was coming up. Not till later. And then you start growing even more, like looking at the All Blues artists because like Led Zeppelin’s, you know, all those songs are Willie Dixon’s. And. And. And because he loved us in Europe. And them cats go over there and be treated like human beings, you know, as proposed to over here. Even Elvis Presley, man. Doug, the juke joint stuff, man, they didn’t like that about it. You know, you swivel in your hips over here with that. They call that Negro stuff. But no, it was. It. It’s just, man, I had a little paper route, man. Had some change all the time. You could always make some money, especially in winter time, because you got a good, strong back, we get $5 to shovel just the hill. Because Miles is on a hill a lot of people got. They said, just get the front and they’ll give you 10. And, man, if you go around in a good storm, man, you have like 50, 60 dollars in your pocket before you get cold. So it was a good time. It was a good time. I wasn’t as good as I liked to be with sports. I really liked baseball, but I really kind of gravitated towards music. But my cousin, Larry, he could play baseball. He should have went to. He was. He should have went to. He could have went to college because he had. He had a huge stick, man. He could knock the ball. It was on 131st. My new church, now, Holy Spirit. Now, that used to be. And further up on 131st. Both of them on the 131st was, I want to say it was Holy Family. And Holy Family, my cousins lived on Chapelside. I remember there was a big battle because they said, well, why can’t we go to school right up on this corner? And they said, well, no, you wouldn’t understand the language. It’s a Slavic church. We don’t want you here. It was a big battle. And the bishop said, no, they can go to school there. And so, you know, they ended up going to school. But. And I will say that after. During those times, it was close to that Civil Rights thing. There was a lot of white flight, you know, people separate, you know. They said, oh, no, we’re out of here-they started letting them in. You know, it was kind of like that, too, too. So. So. But we was forced to stay together when you’re in Catholic school, you know, and you just, you know, you. I don’t know. That was the good thing about Catholics is that, you know, they keep trying, you know. You know, you can’t always get the right culture. It is what it is, but it’s just a battle. It’s just. You just gotta stay in love whenever we can. But it’s not, it’s not always easy. But.
Ava Carubia [00:26:38] So what time, do you know, around what year that white flight started happening? Do you remember?
Bernard Long [00:26:44] Oh man, immediately. That was big time Civil Rights when that hit. They killed Martin Luther King and all that. It was just killing, everybody’s dying. And people just go to their own corner, you know, or they’ll go to another, you know, they just move out. It was right after ’63. I remember because I was raised up. There was this one kid, man, Gary Washbaugh, or don’t use his name. But like, he was going to bully me, man. I was like, oh, no. And I, I, you know, he’s kind of like a tough kid, but I said I don’t care, you know. And I popped him in his eye. That week he was gone. Mama pulled him out. Said, no, them not. We’re not going to have none, you know, because I was not afraid of nobody. They tell me, don’t you never, you know, don’t be afraid of nobody. He kind of like just was dogging me. I said, okay, well, that’s what we gonna do. And I popped him in the eye. And that week, his mama withdrew him from school. So that kind of stuff really happened.
Ava Carubia [00:28:09] And he was white?
Bernard Long [00:28:11] Yeah. Gary Washbaugh.
Ava Carubia [00:28:15] So you’re talking about white flight kind of leading into Civil Rights time. How could you see all these sort of racial changes in the neighborhood while you were growing up?
Bernard Long [00:28:29] It was easy. It was a diverse neighborhood. And then like, after Martin, it was, it was all Black. It’s just, just that, just that simple. I mean, you could just see it. But still, you still got your, you know, your friends and stuff that you, you know, long lasting friends. John Lewandowski, Bill Gluckar, you know, some other. They had same aspirations as me with some good drummers and stuff. This was at Cleveland Central Catholic. And then you got just, you know, the Latinos. It was always cool. It was always cool. Respectable, of course, but, you know, it don’t, you know, people are people, you know, you’re always going to have a challenge, you know. You know, just the trick is just always be respectful, you know, so everybody demand that. So, you know, but still you gotta be weary, you know, say I don’t trust y’all, but we square. I’m comfortable. But it’s just, it is what it is. I don’t think it’s any better, like, even right now, you know, it’s like I can understand how, how you would. I don’t know. To me, like, it seems like democracy seem like it’s it looks good on paper at least, you know, but they demonize each other with this vicious politics, you know, and misrepresent and, you know, then you got people who, it’s like, as God is my witness, I don’t understand how they would vote for Donald Trump after all that. I said, you know, I said, I don’t. I thought that Kamala Harris was, she was, you know, I think she would do right. I would say she’d do right. I would say she was like a righteous men and women, educated and to be able to make connections between people and not be so venomous, you know. You know, I don’t know. I couldn’t understand it, but I see that clearly. You know, they jump ship. Of course, I think they had a lot of help just prior to the election. You got Mr. Elon Musk, the richest people in the world. Because I remember when Barack said, said, man, they just passed the thing in the Supreme Court, money is speech. And he shook his head in disgust. I said, oh, man, that like rats us out. Me and you, we don’t, we don’t have no money. We don’t have a whole lot to say. But when you think about democracy, you know, there’s a lot of wisdom in probably you that’s not going to get, get hurt because money’s going to do what money wants to do. And that’s, that’s just the nature of the game, nature of the beast, man. Because Elon Musk put $150 million, so he got 150 million, 150 millionaires he created. I said, man, that’s going to pull a lot of votes, man. I said, man, the money’s flying. I’m on this bandwagon, right? You 150 people just instantly become a millionaire. Sign this petition, here’s your check. So, you know, man, money is, that’s the thing, man. So principle not so important. Money is, was, you know, you know, people already in place and established corporate. So they don’t want, they don’t, they don’t want democracy. They want to just, you know, I say, hey, you know, we just gotta ride it out. I say, but that’s a whole other topic. You know, how politics just got so venomous and vicious and stuff. I thought, I said I didn’t think she’d be able to make president, but I thought she’d probably do right by, you know, get the right people together and maybe, you know, some people with some intellectual capacity get together, maybe things could really happen, you know. But, you know, it’s that money thing, you know? Well, you know what they said? You know, they say Satan is running this fourth season and is allowed by God. So I said, okay, you just gotta stay in the love. Stay focused. You might have to pick up the cross yourself, because if you stand for a principle, yo, we dropping like flies anyway So, you know, you might speak truth to power or get you killed. They kill presidents. That’s what I said. Oh, man, I hope she don’t make it. I remember, yeah.
Unidentified Speaker [00:33:40] Just Bernard? No one showed up yet?
Bernard Long [00:33:41] No, we just talking. And I’m. I’m running my mouth left and right.[Recording pauses and then continues]I can’t even. That’s not the tip of the iceberg, because every little thing means something, you know? So you grow, you know, say one day you just. Well, you got to keep believing in a higher power, you know, and you got to do your part, you know, so you just. That’s all you can do, you know, Just try and stay in love. Do your part and be constantly remind yourself, because me and malice get along just fine. And that’s one thing you don’t want. You want to control that because you’ll get. You know, I get my feathers ruffled pretty easy. So the heart it leads me to do is just deal with my own malice, you know? And right now, it’s like everybody’s in like a powder keg on a regular basis. People come up here, don’t have anything, and they’re just getting food distribution, you know, they’re not going to have anything. So this is it. They come in and get. So you always try and be, you know, try and be upbeat, you know, and. But you pretty much. You know, there’s little good stories here and there. Come in for. For instance, we had a kid, his name is Henry, and. And I was just. I was. He came in, I was so proud of him. He said, man, I just come to you. Remember me? I said, oh, my God, no. You know, because he was getting his little. Next thing you know, they’re huge. He says, yeah, I got. I went to Tri-C and I got a four point something. Four points grade average. And they accepted him at Kent State. I said, oh my God, Larry, my cousin graduated from Kent State. Man. I said, man, that is great. He said, man, I’m doing music. And I said, what you got? He had his little JBL speakers, and he had his music on the phone because he’s doing. You know, he’s. He’s using that kind of software. It sounded pretty good. Of course, it’s rap. And I was, man, I said, man, I would. I would have him play with me in a heartbeat when we put something together. Just, you know. And some of my peoples here, they dogged him out, you know, they said, no, you’re not gonna be playing that in here. You know. I said, you can’t do that. I said, man, this kid, you should be giving him a high praise. He says, this kid knuckled down and got a four point grade average at Tri-C and got accepted at Kent State. I said, oh, my God, that’s huge. You know, his people didn’t have no money. He might be the first one to go to school. But when he did it, you know, I was digging it. And she was like, well, pushed us outside. Y’all get out of here with that s. No, that’s the music. You know, you got to let the kids. I don’t like all rap. Sometimes you get gangster or that vanity or, you know, something that’s lewd or, you know, I ain’t into that. But you just. It was a reflection of who he was, his environment. Because some of it, he did use the N word and stuff like that, you know. I said, well, yeah, but I had to. I just had to do it. I had to give it to him. But I haven’t seen him since. But something like that, you know. I know some people might infuse that his ideas was. Because I like jazz, you know, we sit up there because you get sophisticated in your old age and try and then, you know, maybe just put a fusion together. He could speak from the heart and maybe curve his enthusiasm. How the language that you might. You don’t want to offend anybody or anything like that. But I was just so proud that he buckled down and got, you know, just did what he had to do, you know, and they didn’t support that. I said, wow, that’s crazy, man. Because, man, when I was coming up, man, it’s like I peed ginger ale. They loved me. Anything I did, they. Oh, you know, you get that from families. You know, we play football. He used to call me Crazy Legs. I got a style of running, like from buddy of mine named Jimmy Brown, he was. He was. He became a dentist. Now he’s retired. He’s just painting, an artist. So I know he’s doing well, but he could have his head pointed this way, and then just. He could just. He’d fake your socks off, man. So I started learning. Yeah, you have to be deceptive when you run it. Run. The bottom part has two different parts. It’s weird. I can’t explain it. Yeah. This life is. Life is good. Circumstances are messed up, you know, but life is always good. Yeah. What else we got to talk about?
Ava Carubia [00:39:10] Well, I want to go back to what you were saying about Civil Rights. Like you said you had that friend that went to college, then came back and had Black Panther stuff on. And you also said Black Panthers were doing a lot.
Bernard Long [00:39:22] They were, you know, even back then, I didn’t know. Later on I learned that they would have food programs and stuff like that. And they were just being like every other white militia because they were, they were carrying, man. Because they’re killing them, you know. So they said, hey, no, we’re men. We gonna stand here with this? I said, and that bothered me when I was young. I said, well, no, I don’t know. We don’t need to do that, you know, but maybe we did, you know, because that’s just the Fifth Amendment rights that everybody’s talking about right now. They run into the Capitol and then destroy and kill people. That’s it. And it’s so tribal. So they had to do something to stand together as men, let them know, hey, I’m a soldier, a man, you know. So I understood it differently after when they came into the thing, I said, man, because Reggie, that was such a remarkable dissonance, you know, he was going to be. We had a conversation outside. He said, “Man, I’m joining the priesthood. I want to be a priest.” “What?” I said, “Okay, damn. Where you going? To Borromeo?” “Yeah.” We had the conversation and they graduated and stuff. And then when I was getting ready to graduate, here they come in with Black Panther and stuff. I said, oh, man, it was so cool, you know, make you feel like a man. That’s my cats. He was a good football player. Been married 50 years now. And he preaching. Okay. James Johnson, you know, and Catholic. So they’re non-denominational. We came up Christians. There’s not a skeleton in every closet when you look at religion. Jesuits, I don’t care. So people just doing the best they can. They read scripture, we read from the same books. And then a lot of times you get a whole lot of commentary, you know. But I personally believe that a lot of people were written-off. They said we’re not the children of God. We’re just slaves. And it buckled me because when you look at the revelation said, man, when the temple went down, see the people scattered east and west of Nigeria, they call it niggerland. You go over to Ethiopia and. Or the ones who went to Spain, they called them niggers. Because that’s what the Spanish Inquisition was all about. We got to get them out. They were amongst the ruling class and stuff, too. And when my. I never knew my father. Mama Ruth claimed me and she said she from slaves. I said,“Wow, man. I mean, I’m from Nigeria, I’m from the coast?” You know. I said, “I’m not from here?” So, you know, in a way, I felt so good because you feel like you know who you are, you know. Yeah.
Ava Carubia [00:42:49] If you want me to pause it, just let me know.
Bernard Long [00:43:00] Kind of hit a nerve.
Ava Carubia [00:43:02] Mmhm. Yeah, I can pause it for a second.[Recording pauses]
Bernard Long [00:43:06] It’s just like you were asked about my father, but I said “Wow, he’s from slaves in Alabama”, so. And my grandfather, he was like, oh, my God. We have a diverse family. My grandma looked like an angel. My grandfather like a Morisco, you know, he’s like, he Moorish. You know, I show you. I think I got pictures of it. I might not have no pictures. Yeah, I might not have no pictures. Yeah. I got emotional. I just. Oh, my God. I was just. Mama Ruth claimed me.
Ava Carubia [00:44:15] What was she like?
Bernard Long [00:44:16] Mama Ruth?
Ava Carubia [00:44:17] Yeah.
Bernard Long [00:44:18] She’s still. She’s still. She’s just a Southern woman. Yeah. Teacher. I’m getting some recipes for from her and stuff like that. I remember, man, when the people came to do her roof, I got. Oh, my God. So I was part being with the church. We had what they call the African mass and people from the Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia. So I started looking at that stuff, you know, as a man, just. Just where I’m working now at Automation Plastic, we have some orphans and stuff from Africa and came up there and did a little thing, you know.
Ava Carubia [00:45:15] Yeah.
Bernard Long [00:45:16] I just love them, you know. So I’m still trying to grow, you know, grow. So I was trying to see if I have pictures of my grandmama. Oh, exactly. Oh, okay. Well, I got this one. These are my cousins and me and my mom and my stepfather and my little brother and those Christians. I got a collage in my basement.
Ava Carubia [00:45:51] This is great.
Bernard Long [00:45:53] Right? So my grandfather was very dark complexion, black curly hair. My grandmama looked like an angel. She had long hair, and she might have some Indian in her. Somebody said Blackfoot or something like that. So I guess that we’ll say that we like Gentiles or something. It had five girls, each one a different color. Aunt Frieda was dark, sandy, a little lighter. Then my mama was lighter. And then Maria got dark again. And then Angie, she was but a baby. Her name was Angelica Gabriel, I tell your mama was an angel. I was there. I would tell her that. I said. But I love her. She sat there, she would read to me on 116, 93432 East 116th Street. When my mama didn’t no have time, my grandmama had the time. So she would read. She would sit me down and read me the book, the Lost World. So, you know, man, when she reads, she was very, very expressive. And. And she was an artist, too, because she could draw people and they looked like people, you know, so she was that. So that was huge. Because my grandfather and my Aunt Alberta, she had a house in the country. We would go stay instead of fooling around the city. When the school let out, we’d go to the country.
Ava Carubia [00:47:32] Where was the house in the country?
Bernard Long [00:47:33] It was there on [unclear] Road in I want to say Thompson, Ohio. The valley. So we’d go out there. Oh, snap. And we’d just live. We’d walk to. We’d walk to the store. It’s like a few miles. Get us some juice and provisions and stuff like that. Oh, man. Bootsy came to town and Dr. BJ gave me a ticket to go see him. I was hanging out. That’s the Funkadelics. You remember, the parliament, Bootsy [unclear]. Oh, my teacher, Hal Wine. Mr. Vibe. He recorded us at Boddie Studio.
Ava Carubia [00:48:28] That’s great.
Bernard Long [00:48:28] And he was playing cumbia in my church. So me and him, I played my drums and then he would play. He just passed last year. And I be making some drums and hopefully just play. Let’s give you some pictures. I’ll be playing at the cathedral with the diocesan choir. So I’ll be trying to. That’s downtown.
Ava Carubia [00:49:00] So what was the role of the church in this area, would you say? Were a lot of people churchgoers? Was the church involved in the community a lot?
Bernard Long [00:49:11] Not really. I don’t think so. I mean. Yes, here. Because, you know, because actually the community felt it. You know, we were part of the staff. Our parents come in. So in that regard. And it was Civil Rights. So, you know, somebody’s trying to do the right thing. Right. So you got to say yeah. But church is church. It is. It is in the mix. You know, they might not agree with everything. Oh, come on. Come on. I just knew I had a picture of my grandfather. I’m so proud of that because I’m named after him. My name is Bernard Leo Long. And his name, Leo. Here goes some of the drums that I made.
Ava Carubia [00:50:11] Those are beautiful.
Bernard Long [00:50:13] West African called Shiko. I call it Skid Row.
Ava Carubia [00:50:16] Mmhm.
Bernard Long [00:50:17] We call it Skid Row. So it’s free material. And I got to do the hardware now.
Ava Carubia [00:50:21] Yeah.
Bernard Long [00:50:23] Yep. I got a Marshall Stack I bought back in 1978 when I got out of service. Trying to establish credit. Those are rare.
Ava Carubia [00:50:34] Wow.
Bernard Long [00:50:35] That was handwired in England. So.
Ava Carubia [00:50:39] Okay, so wait, we’ve talked about your early life, but you didn’t even tell me that you went into the service. So what schools did you go to here? When did you graduate? When did you enter the service?
Bernard Long [00:50:51] Okay.
Ava Carubia [00:50:52] I just want a basic timeline.
Bernard Long [00:50:53] Well, I went to school here first, and then after the eighth grade, we graduated and went to Cleveland Central Catholic.
Ava Carubia [00:51:00] Okay.
Bernard Long [00:51:01] I wasn’t the sharpest pencil in the drawer when I got to Catholic school. And my sister was coming up, going to go to school. They want to take her to Marymount. Well, I forget one of them schools. It’s downtown. I forget the name of my sister’s school. But she was the one really learned stuff. So I went to John Adams and finished up in Adams. And after I got out of Adams, you know.
Ava Carubia [00:51:28] What year did you finish at Adams?
Bernard Long [00:51:30] ’72.
Ava Carubia [00:51:31] Okay.
Bernard Long [00:51:32] So after I got out of Adams, I just joined. Joined the service. My friend said,“What?” But, you know, I don’t know. I didn’t have. I could have got a job at Ohio Bell, but I just wanted to just see what’s, what’s out there. So I joined the Air Force, you know, went out to New Mexico or Lackland Air Force Base. It was cool. Yeah. Then when I got out, I started doing. I worked for my godmother, Nicolina Napoli, okay? Because my mom, she went to Catholic school, and the people of color went to St. Edwards. It’s down, going towards downtown. And she had, you know, my godmother’s name was Nicolina Napoli. She’s Sicilian. And she named my brother, a Black kid, named Gino. She said,“He looks like a Gino.” And so they called him Gino. That was his name. It’s like his name is Ronald Rawls II. And so she christened him Gino. And everybody liked that. I said, “Well, you can’t get a Black person named Gino,” but there’s more. This one, Seattle got one. But it was cool. I had. When I was in the service, I got into some trouble. We used to like musician stuff, and I got busted for paraphernalia. Okay. I had the clip and some paper, and I’m trying to be cute in a jar. Saying potholder. I said, “Oh, that’s stupid.” You know? So that caused me some grief, you know, and because we was, and to be honest with you, because we were in the. Woodstock was affecting me in that way because we go down in the country, man, and we were like the Doobie Brothers. So, I mean, that’s just that, you know, I don’t smoke anymore. But that’s just part of my growing up process, I guess. Could we get together? We out there on Coventry. Ever hang out on Coventry? It was cool back in the day. It was just like the upper crust and everybody’s just kind of free and hippie-like, you know. But yeah, Coventry, that was cool. I would go up down to Coventry to see my other friends over on the East, East Cleveland and over by East Tenth, my cats, because they were all over the place. So since I had so many friends and diverse friends because of my. A buddy of mine named Barry Hill. I met him. He went to Benedictine, but his dad was state representative, right? Or so, man. So we got little jobs and quirks and stuff. And he always had. His dad had a Thunderbird, very. We swing around and pick us up in the Thunderbird or his mama’s Ford. And then, you know, I could get my dad’s car. I get the Monte Carlo. And then he messed around and got a Cadillac. Well, you couldn’t tell me nothing. I was a mess, man. But yeah, it was Catholic church. It played an important role, you know. I think my granddad had to. He had five daughters and he had a business and somebody made him an offer to probably, he got out of that business because he had two trucks. But, you know, this is Cleveland. And he ended up working at CTS. Cleveland Transit. Because that’s where my Uncle Vern went to because he used to be a streetcar driver, man. He went to school for chemistry and was good at it. And he was a track star. Vern Dickson-D I C K S O N. He was like Jesse Owens. He went long distance. And then when he got out, instead of going to college, he joined the transit authority. He became a streetcar driver, you know. And then I think my granddad followed the same too. He had two trucks. But that’s not, you know. Right. This is a mob town. A good. This was a mob town. So you have five daughters, get you a job. That’s what my granddad did. He worked at that auxiliary police. I remember when they had the Moondog Dance. My mama would tell me about how the teenagers liked to go. What’s his name? Wolf. Wolfman Jack and all that. They had a big thing downtown. And then the kids just like, not rioting, but it kind of got wild, you know. And so they dispersed my granddad out. She said, man, it was jumping. It was like a riot. And then she said she seen my granddad. She always say he walked slew for me, you know, like Charlie Chapman and see, there was Daddy. He got him. He took care of his babies. Oh, I keep some of these pictures. That was something she said. The stories you get from all the families coming up and stuff. Like my great-grandfather, Sylvester. I cherish those. He was, I’m saying, when my brother in law looked up there, he was a soldier. Okay, so his name was Sylvester Dickson and his wife’s name was Rosa. So that’s what I think. I look at my granddad he’s like Morisco. Leona and Leo. He had a sister. She was like the Mona Lisa. She’d just look at me like. And I’ll be like melted like butter. She would tell us stories. She had hops in Miles Heights. Well, it’s just one way in, one way out. It’s just a Black neighborhood. He called it Miles Heights. And I used to go in there. She had books and sewing machines and she had rice in a bowl. And it seemed kind of like dark in her. I said, “What’s that rice there for?” She said, “For spirits.” I looked at her, I said, man, she was so, so cool, man. She was married to a white guy named Dave who was Jewish, you know, so. And she was a seamstress. And so we just. Man, that’s where Niecy and, well, Joe Maple. I first met Joe Maple, played guitar and lived in Miles Heights. They’d be sitting on the porch. He was killing it. He’d play all those songs on record. So, like, it was the coolest thing. Roger, to this day, his brother is playing for Hubs Groove. If you ever see a local band, he’s one of the nice Hub Groove. And Rogers, he’s great. He was playing for Kinsman Dad. You got Mike Calhoun. And then Willie Ross used to play for the O’Jays. Willie passed away, man, he was lagging. Great guitar player too. I remember I came out of service, man, he was like running a show in Cleveland. Like, when you the man, you know, you, you hitting, everybody look up to you. You have to. That’s respect. And I kept just kind of like trying to always play, never stop. But I said, no, Willie. He was like, he made you. I remember I was trying to go to South Africa with the O’Jays when they was trying to do for their apartheid. I got my, my passport and, you know, I said, man, I was chomping at the bit, but I didn’t get. I couldn’t get my visa. It was too late. He threw the bone out there for me. But I, I remember running down to my buddy Clifford Groom’s mom working at the federal building, and she got, she was okay. Come on in here. Let’s get you this. And I got my passport and all like that. Then time ran out. I couldn’t get the visa, you know, but I wanted to go real bad. They were like having a. Against apartheid, you know. So I said, man, I would love that, man. Just hanging out with the O’Jays. Oh my God, that’s like heaven on earth. Because they always was like into message music, you know. You know, I remember I was in the service, they came out with this album called Ship A’hoy. I was so proud of my boys back home. I said, yeah, that’s the O’Jays. We soldiers. And they’re listening to. You have to get. Get your copy Ship A’hoy and listen to you. See what I was talking about? It’s like. It talks about slavery, moving people around with ships, you know, I was. And put your hands together. They had a lot of good, good message music. You probably. I don’t know, it’s before your time, but you might want to just Google it up. I got the album when they did one of my. Some had a record store came in here and said, man. And I told him, he said, he showed it to me. I said, oh, my God. So he gave it to me, you know, and an old Beatles album too. So he had. His dad had a record store. So music was always important. That’s the only thing we got in common.
Ava Carubia [01:01:28] Yeah.
Bernard Long [01:01:28] You know. You know, so really that’s what was kind of like the mortar in society and stuff. It’s kind of like a little cheesy now because it like gets to the point where, like, controversy sells. So they’ll say something just controversial. And, you know, I said, oh, man, that’s not. That’s just you selling out. You’re not. But not to be judgmental.
Ava Carubia [01:01:57] Well, honestly, I have a lot more questions for you.
Bernard Long [01:02:01] Go ahead.
Ava Carubia [01:02:01] But I don’t think that we have the time, so I might want to set up a second-
Bernard Long [01:02:07] Okay.
Ava Carubia [01:02:07] interview with you because we haven’t gotten through-
Bernard Long [01:02:10] I ain’t going through nothing. Yeah, I just start thinking stuff. Just blurting it out.
Ava Carubia [01:02:15] No, no, no, no. This is great. But I think I want to set up a second interview. And this interview split in two. So I’m just going to say again, for the record, this is an interview with Mr. Bernard Long. It is November 19, 2024 at the Thea Bowman Center. It’s about 11:00. I’m Ava Carubia, interviewing. And this is part one of the interview series with Mr. Long. So I’m gonna end the recording now and we can set up a second interview time to just get through all that other stuff because this has been so good, honestly.
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