Abstract
In this 2025 interview, Shirley Bell, the executive officer and founder of RevLove Farm, discusses her early life in the Mt. Pleasant and Kinsman area. She describes her educational path and the history of urban agriculture in the area, including the history of RevLove farm. She concludes the interview by discussing the ways that Cleveland has shaped her as a person and by describing the importance of community and food sovereignty.
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Interviewee
Bell, Shirley (interviewee)
Interviewer
Carubia, Ava (interviewer)
Project
Union-Miles
Date
2-5-2025
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
29 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Shirley Bell Interview, 05 February 2025" (2025). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 483016.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1371
Transcript
Ava Carubia [00:00:00] I’m recording now, and I have a little script that I read at the beginning of each interview, which is today is February 5th, 2025. My name is Ava Carubia, and I’m here at NuPoint Development Corporation in Cleveland interviewing Ms. Shirley Bell for the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project. Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed.
Shirley Bell [00:00:22] Thank you for having me.
Ava Carubia [00:00:24] All right, so for the record, can you please state your name, your birth date, and where you were born?
Shirley Bell [00:00:29] Shirley Bell. My birthday is… 1989, and I was born in Hawaii. Honolulu, Hawaii.
Ava Carubia [00:00:39] Okay. So can you talk a little bit about how you got to Cleveland?
Shirley Bell [00:00:42] My father is from Cleveland. His family’s originally from the south, but they moved from Dry Branch, Georgia. My grandfather, when he was 16 years old, him and his wife, to 134th in Kinsman. I don’t know how long ago that was, but when my grandfather was 16, and my mother is from California, Long Beach, they met in the Air Force, and then I came, and then they both left the Air Force, and they, instead of going to California, they decided to come to Cleveland. They say cost of living, but I could have been a Cali girl.
Ava Carubia [00:01:22] So then when did you move to Cleveland with them?
Shirley Bell [00:01:25] Two.
Ava Carubia [00:01:26] You were two.
Shirley Bell [00:01:27] Mhm.
Ava Carubia [00:01:28] Okay.
Shirley Bell [00:01:28] Yeah.
Ava Carubia [00:01:28] And where did you grow up?
Shirley Bell [00:01:31] So my family home is on 134th and Kinsman. But I want to say that lasted only very young, most of my childhood. It’s interesting. It’s in this neighborhood. It’s 131st. My family still owns the home. It’s 128th. I said 131st, but it’s 128th over by Beachwood. I can’t remember the street. Beachwood at 11, I think it’s called Hoy, I might have made that up. It’s been so long. You bringing back all these memories. But, yeah, so my family, from probably like 5 to 12, I lived on 128th off of Miles. Is it off of Miles or it’s off of 131st? It’s off of Miles. I’m bad with directions. It’s between. In between Miles. Yeah, it’s in the area right up the street.
Ava Carubia [00:02:28] Okay, and what do you remember from the area when you were growing up here?
Shirley Bell [00:02:35] Playing outside and having just outdoor adventures and just. I know people always say it, but the level of freedom and just playing outside and adventures that we had. Kids don’t play like that anymore. And so my grandparents started in Mt. Pleasant, and then they moved to Garfield. So we also have a family home that’s in Garfield down the hill. Down 131st. And the reason I say that is a lot of times we would go play in the woods. We would walk from, we’d walk all the way down the hill 131st, walk down the hill and go play in the woods. One time I was riding my bike and I was just full of my self confidence, adventurous and I flipped it coming down 131st. It was bad, but I was okay. But yeah. So I just remember playing and the freedom and the fun and the joy and just being a kid. I know that’s so stereotypical. Everybody says that, like, oh, when kids used to be kids. But yeah, no electronics. The electronics that we did have is my parents didn’t want us to have a lot of people in the house. So we would run the extension cords out the window, out the front door and put the TV, put a little TV and a video game system on the front porch. So that was probably like. It was past Sega Genesis. But I think it was like the first or second PlayStation. What PlayStation are we on now? I have no idea. Five. So it was like one or two. It was probably the first one then. And just sit on the front porch and play video games. That’s as far as our interactions went with electronics. Yeah.
Ava Carubia [00:04:22] And so where did you go to elementary school?
Shirley Bell [00:04:25] I went to Miles Park and then I went to this Catholic school called Archbishop Lyke. The St. Henry’s campus is right on 131st. It’s like on the border as you’re going down 131st when Miles, when like this district turns into Garfield. And then I also. Then after that I went to Second New Hope, which is in,like,the Buckeye area. It’s like right off of Buckeye. It’s a Christian school. Private school, Charter school. Private. I don’t know which one is. And then when I went, we moved to Shaker when I went to high school.
Ava Carubia [00:05:11] So what was your experience like in all those different schools?
Shirley Bell [00:05:16] Wow. You want me to think all the way back what was my experience? To be honest, the one thing I remember about Miles Park is I remember they busted the windows out. We used to have to. Somebody tried to. I don’t know why they did, but we used to have to wear coats in class. I don’t know why. That’s the memory I remember. I remember doing Black history. It’s funny because it’s Black History Month. I remember doing like Black history recitals and being on stage. I don’t know that I was actually doing anything. But when you’re in a large group and you’re like blended in. It feels like something. I remember my parents coming to see that. I think that’s the full extent of Miles Park. I vaguely remember like what it looks like in the auditorium, in the gym. What was the next school Archbishop Lyke? I don’t know. That was a different experience. We’re not gonna go there. Yeah, I was a bad kid. It was a very religious school. The nuns pinched our ears. It was just an experience. But when I went to. I got kicked out of that school. When I went to Second New Hope. I remember we used to have gym at Zelma George. I forgot about that. I remember we used to. So I remember we used to get on the rapid and ride it downtown and do field trips. So I feel like the thing I would say about Second New Hope is that it was very much like immersed within the community. Like we were using like different community assets. And then there was. Because it was a small school, I think that there was a lot of like personal relations with the teacher. Like I would see, not personal like that, but I would like see my teacher like at the stores or like barber shops. And we would have like mentoring, like conversations. And we read a book. We were reading books that were like too advanced for us, but we would have like deep conversations. The Invisible Man. I read that in high school. No, middle school. We read that in middle school. The Invisible Man in eighth grade. We had a lot of freedom. Like we would put on like these shows like how you have like a graduation ceremony. Instead of it being very like planned out or like directed by the staff, the young people. We actually planned out and directed it. Oh, all the memories are coming back. We had like a music director that would help us and we would like plan out the songs. We just basically put together a whole little skit or a whole little presentation that we came up with. And it was very much. Not that I’m thinking about it. I never thought about this. It was very much student directed in a way that other schools weren’t. So that’s the thing I remember about that. Yeah.
Ava Carubia [00:08:12] And then you went to Shaker for high school?
Shirley Bell [00:08:15] We went to Shaker for high school. I went to Shaker 9th through 12th grade. And then when I graduated, I was back in this neighborhood. My daddy still owns a house in Shaker. But yeah, when I graduated, moved out my parents house. I moved back in this area.
Ava Carubia [00:08:33] So what year did you graduate from high school?
Shirley Bell [00:08:35] I don’t know. What year were you born? ’07. Were you born before 07? Okay.
Ava Carubia [00:08:47] What was I gonna ask? Oh, how had the neighborhood changed throughout when you were younger and then when you moved back to the neighborhood in 2007?
Shirley Bell [00:08:56] Well, kids don’t play outside. That’s one thing I would say. Like, trying to think how to say it in a nice way. I don’t know how to sum it up. But like the grocery store right here was like a grocery store we would go to. There was a corner store right there that’s closed. There was like a hair store in the plaza. Not this plaza, but the other plaza across the street. I think it was like how I mentioned about the school earlier, how we used our community assets. I think it was like now because I’m in the work of nonprofit and all of these things are coming up about the 15 mile walk and like having all the assets in the community and food apartheid and all of these things. I think back then, excuse me, there was much more resources. Resources are. It’s just everything. I guess what I’m trying to say, everything we needed was in the community, it felt like. And maybe that was just coming from my young point of view. And I think even more so when I hear my parents, we also knew our neighbors, our neighbors more had a better relationship with our neighbors. But not in my lifetime. But as I hear my, my father and his family talk about it. Because the rec center, is it Alexander Hamilton? I don’t know. The rec center on 123rd, 120, 120, 134th and Kinsman. The rec center that’s over there, that used to be a school. It is Alexander Hamilton. And my, my father and his siblings went there and I just hear them talk about how the neighborhood used to be. You know that strip right there on Kinsman in the 30s and 40s is mostly vacant. It’s starting to come back, but there’s a lot of vacancies. So they just talk about the good old days. And so I think that what I’m saying, the transition, whether it be from like my parents generation to my generation and my generation going on to my kids generation, hopefully it kind of breaks that pattern of there’s less and less resources inside of the community. And it’s like, you gotta drive a little bit further. It’s less of like a centralized like community experience, if that makes sense.
Ava Carubia [00:11:27] Yeah. So you graduated from high school and you moved back to the neighborhood. What was going on then during that time for you?
Shirley Bell [00:11:36] For me personally or for the neighborhood?
Ava Carubia [00:11:39] I guess both. For you and the neighborhood.
Shirley Bell [00:11:42] I got married young, got divorced. I don’t know. I was partying, to be honest. What was going on with me and with the neighborhood. And then I was also very much. I also went to college straight out of high school and I went to Cleveland State. So I was in college from 07. Sometimes I went part time, sometimes I was full time, but I was in college from 07. Consistently maybe took a year off. Maybe I don’t think I took a year off. But consistently from 07 to like, oh, I had to take some time off, to 2020. I went to undergrad. I graduated after like five or six years and I went back and I just graduated for grad school in 2020.So it was. I don’t know, I think. I was, okay. I guess this is the way I want to phrase it. I was very much internalized into my own little world. And I think that was just where I was developmentally. Like save money, work these jobs and go to school and have fun when I’m having fun. I wasn’t really community focused. So I can’t speak much to what was going on in the community. Like. Cause that was like from like 20 to 30, even like 20 to probably even 20 to 25. I would say it wasn’t until like 2017 where I really got more like community back, community focused and started going to the community events and kind of tapped into that type of like idea of what was going on in that way, if that makes sense.
Ava Carubia [00:13:31] Can you talk more about that? What kind of community events were you going to?
Shirley Bell [00:13:35] So there’s this organization called Neighborhood Connections and they had like Neighbor Nights and the Buckeye one is very thriving. And so when I first initially started getting connected with Neighborhood Connections, I would just show up to their meetings. It would be at the library. And the thing that was really on the kind conversation during that time was Simon was close-. Not Simon’s, was it Giant Eagle or Dave’s? There was a grocery store that was inside of Buckeye Plaza. It was either Giant Eagle or Dave’s. Surely it wasn’t [unclear]. We haven’t had [unclear] in a long time. I think it was Giant Eagle was leaving. So it was like that food that gap in food. We were talking about like transitions, transportation and things of that nature. So that was really rolled me into where I am now as far as career and community focus around. I’m sorry, my train of thought. Listen, after you have a certain amount of kids. Oh, the farm. So with the. I started the RevLove farm because of the conversation of like needing food or fresh produce and things of that nature. But also, my undergrad is in education. My master’s is clinical mental health counseling. So a lot of that is like, youth focused and like trauma informed and all of these things. So we started. And I’m very much into the arts, so we started working with young people at a juvenile detention center. So that was really the focus or like the origins of my work that I do in the community.The community that I live in is also the community that I work with. So it was like the aspect of the farm and feeding and food and then the aspect of working with young people who have had juvenile offenses.
Ava Carubia [00:15:36] So what year did RevLove open?
Shirley Bell [00:15:39] 2017. Yeah, 2017. I feel like it’s been longer. It feels longer, but I’m pretty sure it’s 2017.
Ava Carubia [00:15:48] And at that time, what would you say the urban agriculture scene was like in that area?
Shirley Bell [00:15:59] Oh, there wasn’t really a presence in that area. I think for sure Rid-All was in a different community, but that was going on for a while. I can’t think of really. Oh, so not. Not that there is a farm that. There’s a farm that’s over here by Miles that used to be connected to the school because, you know, back in the day, Miles Park used to have like, a very strong. Not Miles Park. Miles Park, yes. But CMSD, they used to have a very strong agriculture program. And Miles Park, Miles elementary was one of the main producers. So there’s still. That farm is still existing over there, but more centralized in, like, the Mt. Pleasant/ Buckeye-Woodland. I don’t know. I’m sure there were like, side lots and there’s like, other community like spots. But it wasn’t on my radar. And I don’t know that there were anyone that people at the capacity that we are doing the program that we are.
Ava Carubia [00:17:04] Can you talk more about the programming that you do at the farm?
Shirley Bell [00:17:09] We have a workforce development program. We do events. There’s an aspect of advocacy that goes into this as we have these conversations. First the language was community, was food deserts. And then we X-ed that out and we’re saying food apartheid. And when we talk about all of these things, like food swamps and all of these things, all of these languages have developed. So I think that this space of, like, food equity has developed and started to be. I don’t want to say the buzzword, but it has started becoming to the forefront. Forefront and be relevant. I don’t know if it’s just particularly because so many areas in so many states are losing grocery stores. I think that’s really it. That’s crazy. But because I’ve traveled, I’ve traveled to a couple states and it’s literally like necessities of grocery stores are not there. So this has been in the forefront of the conversation. So. Oh, that brought me back to the point of now we’re seeing more urban farms and urban. Urban agriculture popping up as out of necessity.
Ava Carubia [00:18:24] Um, I had a ques-oh!Being involved in the community now in a different capacity, how would you describe what the community is today versus maybe what you said about it before?
Shirley Bell [00:18:39] It’s hard because I’m moving from a child’s point of view to an adult’s point of view. But how would you say, like particularly how it’s changed or how would I have characterized it in the past versus now?
Ava Carubia [00:18:50] Just any way you want to answer that question. Both of those responses are great.
Shirley Bell [00:18:55] I don’t know. I’m trying to. I think this idea of, I don’t know if I want to say self reliance or there’s a word that I’m looking for that I can’t think of. It’s not autonomy, I can’t think of the word. But it’s basically the word that describes like a community being self-sufficient and kind of like using its resources as assets within the community and not looking for or depending on outside support has developed and I think that’s been out of necessity. I don’t know. I think in my parents’ day they probably did build a lot of the stuff because a lot of it was like community-owned, Black-owned places. There’s a dry cleaners that’s close by that still has been here throughout the years. But I think that as things started to get divested from our communities, we look for outside help and when we look for that outside help, those solutions weren’t really helping us or meeting our needs. So. So I think I would say now there is this sense of how to bridge community and institutional or political connections or power for the betterment of the community. But there’s also this very, sovereignty. It came to me eventually. There’s this very strong sense of sovereignty that is developing within the community as far as like community-led organizations. And even from the top you can see it coming down, like they want to see you. There’s like different federal grants or well, I don’t know what’s going on with the world now, but beforehand there was like different federal grants that were really focused on like partnering with like either CDCs or community organization or grassroots organizations. Like instead of saying like oh, this person who doesn’t work or live in the community is going to come, figure out how to fix it. I think there’s, like, a move away from that. So the way that I would describe it is that we are moving back towards being. I don’t know, because of technology. I don’t know that we’re ever going to be, like, as tapped-in with our neighbors as we were. But I think there definitely is this move back to, like, a sense of community.
Ava Carubia [00:21:24] And then different from the question I just asked. I’ve asked you about how the area has changed. How has it stayed the same throughout your lifetime?
Shirley Bell [00:21:35] That is interesting. I think there are some staples. I think about this plaza that we’re in. I think about the rec centers. I think about the libraries, even though Harvey Rice is a new library, but the other libraries that’s been here for a while, even the schools have changed. So I can’t really say the schools, because the schools that we went to. Yeah. So I would say there’s some community staples. Zelma George, community staples. And it really wasn’t brought to my attention until I traveled to other states. Like, for instance, I was in Detroit. And part of it was amazing. Like, the level of autonomy that they had because they had to was amazing. They had, like, this one place was like, literally, like two streets, blocks and blocks and blocks was owned by the community and community farms, and they bought up the houses. But part of it was like, oh, this is. We made our own library because we don’t have a library that’s close by. Or this is our cooling station. So when it’s extra hot and elderly needs places to go, they can come to this home or when it’s extra cold. And that was weird to me because I’m like, y’all don’t have libraries? Like, y’all. Shouldn’t that be the job of the local government to have, like, places, safe places with people? But they didn’t have that. So it makes me. Even though we are struggling in a lot of ways, it makes me grateful. Like, we still have those rec. State, those rec centers, those libraries, those places that are staples in the community, that have been there and that are going to continue to be there, that we kind of take for granted, you know.
Ava Carubia [00:23:27] Kind of related to you going to other states and other cities. Do you think that being from Cleveland and from this area in particular has impacted you as a person? And if so, in what ways?
Shirley Bell [00:23:44] I don’t know. It was funny because I’ve had conversations with people from different states. But, like, the what is characteristically, like, The Cleveland Persona, and I haven’t put my finger on it. I think conversations we’ve had around, like, kind of have like small town vibes but still be in the city. Like this aspect of like, we’re not that far from like rural communities, but we’re in the city and it’s still like, we’re not. Don’t have that Southern hospitality, but we, we don’t have like. I don’t want to call being mean like New York, but we’re like in the middle somewhere. Cleveland. What. What has Cleveland made me to be? I think about even though other states have diversity, because I have family in California, I think about diversity and I think about this hyper-localization. I think about like, oh, Asiatown or like, even though I’ve never been to Little Italy, like Little Italy or like these pockets of different communities. And then also like, even though we cross over a lot, like, oh, Miles and then Mt. Pleasant and Buckeye. I don’t know how it is in other states, but I think that. And I guess that’s the idea of like, we have small time small town vibes, but we’re really not small. Is like having this little small community within your community. And it kind of gives. What am I trying to say? I think it kind of gives a level of authenticity and a level of like, personality and characteristics and like, individualism to people who are like community leaders, quote, unquote. Like, I don’t know. I think. I think, I think different. I guess what I’m trying to say, I think there’s distinctive personalities in different communities and distinctive assets and like, experiences that make up this larger whole. So I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s a deep question. What has Cleveland left me with or, like, how has it shaped me? I think I’ve had a lot of opportunities for leadership and there’s been a lot of opportunities because there’s been needed, like, as you have, like a lack. And there’s been different, like, whether it be like grant opportunities or like community-led organizations that support you. So I think there’s been this aspect of like, supporting my leadership ability. I think there’s a level of. I don’t know if ingenuity is the thing, but resourcefulness to be able to figure out things. Like it kind of, it kind of fits into like the urban homesteading or like the farming type of vibe of like, oh, we don’t have a grocery store. We’ll figure it out. Let’s get together and have a community meeting and figure out I don’t know what it’s like in other communities, but I imagine that in more like busy cities, we’re not sitting down. Well, maybe they are, but sitting down, figuring out how to fix it and pulling our resources. So I don’t know. Did I answer your question?
Ava Carubia [00:27:19] Yeah.
Shirley Bell [00:27:20] Okay.
Ava Carubia [00:27:21] I really just have one more question for you, which is what I ask everyone at the end of these interviews. And that’s, what message would you like to leave for future generations?
Shirley Bell [00:27:34] I’m assuming that this audio is going to be really used for, like you say, history. So in my mind, history is like at least 30 years later, but I’m assuming that this is going to be really used for many years later. And also I’m assuming that the many initiatives that I’m involved that are going to be successful. So the message that I will leave is to really understand that all you need is in your hand, in your community, and within you, and to really tap into that sense of community and the sense of. See, I lost that word again. What was that word I said? Sovereignty that you can have within your community. That you don’t have to wait for somebody to come and save you all, that you can use the resources that you have to build or create the community that you need.
Ava Carubia [00:28:37] Well, thank you. Those are all my questions. Is there anything that you want to add I didn’t ask you about?
Shirley Bell [00:28:43] No, I think that’s pretty much it.
Ava Carubia [00:28:46] Okay, great. Thank you. I’m gonna end the recording now.
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