Jeffry Chiplis interview, 2003

Abstract

Jeffry Chiplis shares his experiences growing up in the Tremont neighborhood during the 1950s and 1960s. Born in 1952 to Greek immigrant parents, he discusses the cultural heritage and values instilled in him by his family. Chiplis reflects on his education at local schools, the significance of community gatherings, and the role of the church in his upbringing. He describes the vibrant neighborhood life, including friendships, recreational activities, and the challenges faced by families during economic changes. The narrative also addresses the impact of urban development on Tremont and Chiplis's eventual move away from the area, providing insights into the neighborhood's transformation over time.

Interviewee

Chiplis, Jeffry (interviewee)

Project

Tremont History Project

Date

2003

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

64 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Jeffry Chiplis interview, 2003" (2003). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 223052.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1392

Related Resources

Tremont History Project @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Interviewer [00:00:00] All right, now just to start off, Jeff, could you spell your name for us?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:00:05] First name is Jeff. Go by Jeffrey in a formal situation. J, E, F, F, R, Y. Last name Chiplis. C, H, I, P, L, I, S.

Interviewer [00:00:22] Alright. And Jeff, you lived here in Tremont since I believe you told me 1980?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:00:27] Yes, I moved in in 1980 after I lived over in Shaker Heights for a couple years and happened to come across this building when one of my fellow workers at the Holtcamp Organ Company said, let’s go get pierogies. And being a Hoosier, I didn’t know what pierogies were. So we went over to the Jefferson Inn, which is at a corner across the street here, and we had pierogies. And on the way out he said, oh, by the way, that building over there is for sale. And at that time I was thinking about looking for a place to live and didn’t know anything about the South Side at the time. Didn’t know what a wild and crazy place it had been, still was. And so I naively went and saw this guy who was the young guy in the deal. He was 83 years old and we looked at the house and I thought it was a great place. It had a nice studio storefront here, so I could be able to do some work in there. And so anyway, negotiated with the old guy in the deal. He was, at the time, he was 104 and-

Interviewer [00:01:39] Are you serious?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:01:39] I’m very serious. Very serious. He was 104 years old and was very much aware of everything. He said, this is the percentage rate. This is how we figure it out. This is what your payments are going to be every month. Go see my lawyer and we’ll be all set. So he was doing all the math. Yeah, he was just an amazing character. And I would go see him once a month and drop off a check to him. And this- He was staying at the Little Sisters of the not so Poor when I, as I refer to him. But he went in there when he was 90 years old and they gave him a life lease and they figured, well, he’s 90, how long is he going to live? Well, yeah, anyway, when I met him, he was 104 and 107, actually, lived to be a week from-

Interviewer [00:02:23] Wow.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:02:24] Amazing. But anyway, I used to take him. We went out to- He had some relatives that lived out in Footville, which is out Chardon Road a ways, and it wasn’t on the map. So he says, yeah, well, let’s go find it. So I’m like, sure, whatever. So we went and drove out Chardon Road and started asking directions for Footville. And some people didn’t know, and other people, well, it’s out there somewhere. So anyway, we finally found somebody who knew where it was, and it was just crossing the roads, and we went there and there was this very old house that was up on the side there. And we went and says, yeah, that’s where my cousins used to live. And so we went up there and knocked on the door and lady came out. And I says, well, this is Mr. Hubert Borling, and his cousins used to live here, and he just wanted to come and have a look. And I said, well, he’s 105. And she’s like, pretty amazed and, you know, so he had a look around and it was pretty fun. But he was- He was quite a character. But anyway, that was how I came to be here.

Interviewer [00:03:27] And did you- Was the neighborhood pretty abandoned when you first got here? You said it was sort of a bad neighborhood?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:03:33] Well, it was- It was not. When I told people that I was moving to Tremont, I don’t know if it was actually known very, very well at that time as Tremont, but there was- It was probably more known as the South Side. And I never really referred to the South Side, but lots of other people did. But anyway, I told him I was from Shaker. To the west side people, isn’t that like moving from riches to rags? And I go, well, yeah, maybe, but at least I’ll be the owner of my destiny over there. Which is definitely not the case over in Shaker. But anyway. Yeah, so it was at that time I used to tell some people have blamed me or associated me or attributed me the honor of being one of the first artists over here of the current generations that are here, ask you that. Yeah, right. And they- People have, you know, and so what I did when I moved over here is, you know, in order to, you know, hopefully boost the neighborhood and, you know, the quality of life over here, I was telling all my artist friends that, hey, you know, come over to Tremont. You can get- You could buy a house for the price of a good used car.

Interviewer [00:04:55] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:04:56] And people were like, oh, really? And so a lot of people came true.

Interviewer [00:05:01] I mean, oh, you, basically you could.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:05:02] Yes, yes, you could. You could. You could get some real, real deals back in the day. But anyway, that doesn’t happen very much anymore now, so. And things have changed. But yeah, so a lot of the artist types were moving into the area and so slowly began to evolve. And there were a number of people who came in and did well.

Interviewer [00:05:28] When you were living in Shaker Heights, were you living in a rented apartment?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:05:32] Yeah, it was a third floor of a house. You know, just like nothing special.

Interviewer [00:05:37] And you just want to just build, like, form something on your own, get a house and-

Jeffry Chiplis [00:05:43] Right.

Interviewer [00:05:44] Something that you could control.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:05:46] Right. Someplace where I could get a better investment. A bit of an investment and be able to, you know, if I wanted to make a mess and if I spill paint on the floor or something like that, it’s like no big deal, you know, you clean it up and whatever, but just a matter of, you know, being able to do what you want.

Interviewer [00:06:08] So then some of your artist friends that you knew back in the old neighborhood, they started moving here.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:06:15] I didn’t really know them from old neighborhood. I knew some of them from the early days of SPACES.

Interviewer [00:06:20] And you were involved with SPACES since how long?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:06:25] We’ll say year two for them.

Interviewer [00:06:27] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:06:28] And they’ve been around for 25 years now. So I’ve been with them for a long time. So it was people who I’d met there and I just originally started going there because I had just come out of art school and I was new to the city and was looking to meet other people, other artists and, you know, got involved with them and, you know, you know, painted a couple of walls for them and, you know, they asked me to be on the board and the rest, as we say, is history.

Interviewer [00:06:57] And where’d you go to art school at?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:06:59] I went to a major midwestern university, IU, Indiana University in Bloomington, and got my Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in Sculpture.

Interviewer [00:07:08] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:07:10] In the year that the Bobby Knight won his first of the NCAA championships.

Interviewer [00:07:18] Do you like basketball? Did you get into that?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:07:22] No, I didn’t really get into it. There it was, you know, my mom’s a huge fan, but I’m like, eh, I’m thinking to leave it. I check a ball score, but I don’t like, spend hours watching it.

Interviewer [00:07:32] Alright.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:07:35] Oh.

Interviewer [00:07:36] Do you think there’s any connection between the old steel mill community that used to be, that used to make up Tremont and the more creative community that has developed in Tremont now?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:07:53] Yeah, I don’t know that there’s- I mean, when I came here, the mills were certainly on their way down and there was still a lot of industry in the neighborhood. But I think the. And there were a lot of the old families, the old Polish, Ukrainian families were around the neighborhood, those that hadn’t moved out to Parma or moved elsewhere, There were still a few of those that were still here. But as far as- I mean, I think the people that were working the mills and doing basically manufacturing jobs, whatever, they have a very specific task that they need to perform. Whereas I think being an artist, you have, you know, you may have a task performed, but it’s a task of your own design and your own making. So I don’t know that they were really that. That related other than that, you know, they were working with their hands. But, you know, I don’t think that they were doing any much actual thinking behind what they were doing. So I think. I think it’s a little. You got. You got two different. Yeah, two different things going on.

Interviewer [00:09:11] Sort of like craft versus art.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:09:14] Even craft. You even craft. You’re thinking about design and you’re thinking about, you know, other things to, you know, in making your product, where, whereas- And you’re- And you’re still thinking about aesthetics. Whereas with, you know, if you’re, if you’re working in a factory job, you know, banging out big old slabs of steel, you got one job that you’re doing. And, yeah, you may see your end product, but is there much, you know, creativity going into that? I don’t think there’s a lot, really, on the personal level.

Interviewer [00:09:53] Alright.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:09:53] I mean, you may- You may come home and you may, you know, make birdhouses in your basement and have a little birdhouse garden out in your yard and relate to the birds. But that’s, you know, it’s, you know, apart from what you would ordinarily do, you know, cranking out, you know, big rolls of steel.

Interviewer [00:10:13] Okay. What do you remember when Carl Stokes was elected mayor? That was before you got here.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:10:21] Before my time. Before my time.

Interviewer [00:10:22] That was in the seventies.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:10:24] Right. I actually. Dennis Kucinich was mayor when I came here. I came here in 1978.

Interviewer [00:10:31] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:10:32] So actually, maybe it was like the winter of ’77, because I remember that first winter there was that amazing snow blizzard that shut down the city.

Interviewer [00:10:43] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:10:44] And I went to work anyway that morning, and it was like- And this is when I was commuting from Shaker, and I’d get on the train every day and take me an hour to get to work. And it was like I got there and I realized that ain’t nobody working today. So anyway, I turned around and came back, but it was- Yeah, I just remember there’s, like, big boatloads of snow that winter.

Interviewer [00:11:05] And where did you work?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:11:07] At Holtcamp Organ, which is- I built pipe organs for a living, which I considered to be large musical sculptures, and got to travel a lot with them. And so it was nice to work with your hands, do some woodworking and stuff, make these things. And you know.

Interviewer [00:11:32] Was that in Ohio City? There’s an organ building in Ohio City that I think it’s-

Jeffry Chiplis [00:11:38] Yeah, that little storefront over there. Yeah, no, that’s- That’s another guy who does it as well. But no, Holtcamp has been around for 150-plus years and they’re over on Meyer and- [interruption in recording]

Interviewer [00:11:49] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:11:50] And his- It’s actually been- It’s now in his fourth generation of owners and they were quite world-renowned when, the son who has it now, when his grandfather was a designer and builder. They were huge. They were very famous.

Interviewer [00:12:10] Okay. And they’re still going?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:12:13] Oh, yeah.

Interviewer [00:12:13] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:12:14] Yep.

Interviewer [00:12:21] Are you, are you welcoming the fact that Tremont is now drawing these outsiders from the suburbs and there’s more high-end stores and restaurants and housing, or are you sort of- Do you see this as sort of now, the neighborhood is now going downhill?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:12:41] Well, it’s certainly not going downhill. And people always say to me that, you know, gosh, property values are really skyrocketing over there. You must feeling rich and everything. And I’m like, well, not really because, you know, if I were planning on moving, if I was gonna like wait until the market peaks and then sell and move on to something else, that would certainly be a factor. But I’m not going anyplace.

Interviewer [00:13:05] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:13:05] Because I’ve looked, you know, I always look when I’m out driving around doing stuff, doing whatever, and I don’t see anything that gives me what I have here as far as a workspace that is a manageable size, piano, a living space in the same building. And you know, and plus I have to move all this crap, be able to- [crosstalk] Yeah, right, exactly. If that ever happens, I’ll close the door and let somebody else worry about it. But no, I don’t plan on going anywhere. So as far as all the gentrification goes, no, I don’t- I have a problem with people coming down, enjoying the neighborhood when they are looking where they’re parking and they block my driveway. That kind of irritates me. But, you know, and lots of people come down for the, for the Art Walks on the second Friday of every month. And it’s amazing how that whole thing has sort of evolved over the past 10-plus years that it’s been going on, and back in the, you know, early middays, whatever, they had, there were a lot of, you know, legitimate galleries that were happening. Whereas now it’s, you know, the restaurants, the bars, they do their little thing and, you know, there’s- You know, there’s a couple of galleries - Jean Brandt, Asterisk, and even Downing Thomas across the street over here - that are doing things, and people like to come down and look. And people, you know, and they come down and they eat at- You know, if they’re well off, they eat at Lola’s or Theory or Fahrenheit. And if they’re maybe not doing so well, they’re doing, they’re doing okay, let me say they’re doing pretty good, they might go to La Tortilla Felice or the Lava Lounge or, you know, or Grumpy’s or someplace like that. And if they’re eating on the cheap, they might go down to Pat’s and have something down there.

Interviewer [00:15:10] Yeah. Where you get breakfast on Thursdays.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:15:14] Breakfast on Friday mornings. Friday mornings. Or you can get it on Thursday, but I won’t be there.

Interviewer [00:15:19] But, yeah, anyway, it can be had.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:15:20] Breakfast can be had. So as far as people come, you know, I certainly have no problem with people coming down and enjoying the neighborhood, but it’s just all the new construction they’ve done is- I feel that it’s too- Too dense. If they had- If they had built on every other lot instead of every lot that they had to give these houses some room around them to, you know, then I- I know that wouldn’t be cost-effective for these builders. But still, as far as for density goes, I, you know, it just seems to me that it would have been a little nicer.

Interviewer [00:16:13] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:16:14] But these guys are in- You know, the builders are here to make money.

Interviewer [00:16:17] Yeah. [00:16:18] And, you know, I think one of those houses just sold for $400,000 or something.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:16:24] They- Yes.

Interviewer [00:16:25] Or are they condos? The Tremont Ridge.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:16:27] The Tremont- Tremont Ridge, I believe those are all for sale, regular houses and even stuff with- Yeah, the Tremont Ridge. And. But the thing is, like, okay, so even you got a $300,000 house, you’re gonna end up paying, over the course of 30 years, close to a million dollars for the thing. And first of all, is that really worth, you know, a million bucks? It’s like, I don’t think so. And the other thing is, is, like, I don’t feel that the quality of the materials that they’re using is going to be, you know, be around in, we’ll say, 50 years.

Interviewer [00:17:14] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:17:16] Like the building that we’re in here, this, this building is 90 years old. Is any of those places- Are any of those places going to be around in 90 years? I don’t think so.

Interviewer [00:17:26] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:17:27] And the fact that they would tear down- There was, there was down there next to the Literary Food and Beverage, whatever it’s called down there, there was a great solid brick building there. Knocked it down, built up whatever it is they got down there. And it’s, it’s just, you know, great building-

Interviewer [00:17:51] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:17:52] Would have been- I’m sure that building was close to 100 years old also. And what they put up there, is that gonna last 100 years? No.

Interviewer [00:18:01] Yeah, but what was in that old building? It was housing?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:18:05] It was house- Yeah. It was a housing unit. I don’t know if there was. It could have been even a four-suiter at one time. And a lot of these, these old buildings had, you know, they would be four efficiency apartments and they would have the bath out in the hallway because back, you know, back when these things were built, people would go down to the bathhouse to take their bath and they would have- They would have- They have a john out in the hallway and that would be it. So anyway, needless to say that, you know, it needed to be upgraded or whatever, but still, to take something, you know, solid brick and bulldoze the thing is like, yeah, it hurts.

Interviewer [00:18:55] I think there was an interview with Joe Cimperman. He was talking about how that’s the best thing that’s happened to the neighborhood.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:19:02] The Tremont Ridge?

Interviewer [00:19:03] The Tremont Ridge, I guess as far as bringing money into the neighborhood.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:19:07] Yeah, sure, it’s brought a ton of money into the neighborhood, but they could have been more-

Interviewer [00:19:15] More thoughtful of the rest of the neighborhood?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:19:17] More thought- Well, even if that area down there- It could have been less densely built, could’ve had a reasonable sized yard going around people’s houses, and they could, you know. I don’t know, in the perfect world, and if I were doing it, it would have been different, but it’s, that’s, you know, beyond my control and- But I mean, yeah, granted, there was a lot of open parcels of land down there and housing stock had, you know, had gone down. There were lots of, you know, houses that got demoed back in the day. And even when, back when our neighborhood arsonist was here back in the early ’80s, who would, who would buy these things and rent them and, or would insure them and then burn them. He’s since spent his time in Mansfield and whatever.

Interviewer [00:20:17] But there was a specific guy that used to.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:20:21] Oh, yeah.

Interviewer [00:20:22] I knew- I’ve heard about a lot of arson in the neighborhood, but it was mostly this guy?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:20:25] Yes. It was primarily one individual who - and a couple of his flunkies - who go out and do the work for him. But. Yeah. Anyway, he got-

Interviewer [00:20:36] This was in the ’80s, early ’80s, right?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:20:39] Yeah. And anyway, he’s- I don’t know what he’s doing now. I don’t even- He might even still be in here, but I doubt it. But anyway, so he was responsible for creating a lot of the empty lots. But anyway.

Interviewer [00:20:59] Do you ever go into the local bars around here besides Pat’s in the Flats sometimes. You got the Treehouse and the Lincoln Park Pub.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:21:08] Oh, sure. I know Tom Bell over at the Treehouse. I mean, I’m sorry, over at the Flying Monkey. I’m sorry I confused the two, but Tom Bell over at the Flying Monkey and I certainly admire his, you know, the work that he’s done over there that has turned that pigsty, former, you know, convenience store, into the, you know, fine establishment that it is now. And he’s really spent some time and spent a solid year working on the thing, redoing it from the ground up. And you would never guess that it was the same place before is what it is now. So. Yeah, I go in there once in a while and Dempsey’s, Edison’s, Dempsey’s, we used to go to years ago when Mr. Dempsey still had it, Mr. Dombrowski. And we used to go in there. I used to go in there with my parents and get frog legs for dinner, which were tasty. I haven’t been in the- The Gillespies own it now. And I haven’t really been in there that much more than once or twice. But they do have some good neon in there. They have the- When it- Back when it was the Oasis, the-

Interviewer [00:22:36] It’s not yours, right?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:22:37] No, no, no.

Interviewer [00:22:37] It’s not my signs, but I’ve seen that.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:22:40] Yeah. It’s got the palm trees and the Thank you and call again. But anyway, I, you know, they’ve got- I’ve always wanted to take some of the- You know, they have the Camel, the neon camels from the Camel ads. And I always wanted to take a bunch of those in there and put them underneath the palm trees, just because I thought that would be cool. [crosstalk] Because it makes sense. Exactly. It’s obvious. It’s really dumb and obvious, but still, I thought it’d be great to have all these blue camels underneath these beautiful, you know, green and gold palm trees. But I haven’t convinced them of that idea yet. So maybe if they read this, they’ll, like, say, oh, yeah, great idea. Come on down. So anyway, where else we- Oh, the Literary is another great little place. Nice little hideaway. I don’t know. Some of the other places, the High and Dry, I mean, you know. Sure, there’s a whole list of places.

Interviewer [00:23:40] There’s a ton of them now.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:23:42] Yes.

Interviewer [00:23:49] The art that you’re doing now with the neon lights, when did you start getting into that?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:23:55] It was actually after I got out of school. It was after I moved to Cleveland. And I didn’t do any neon when I was in school. But I always admired the quality of light and the whole atmosphere, the whole ambiance. Yeah, there was a good word that goes along with neon. So, anyway, I remember that there was this service station island in Bloomington that had these neon borders around this service station island. And I went back there in a rainstorm and got a ladder and climbed up there and swiped the neon off this abandoned service station island and brought it back to Cleveland in my Chevette. And there were these long pieces. In fact, those are them up on the wall up there.

Interviewer [00:24:46] And they were working?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:24:48] Oh, yeah.

Interviewer [00:24:49] You took them down, right?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:24:50] Well, they- They were intact.

Interviewer [00:24:53] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:24:53] They hadn’t- I don’t think anybody had them on probably in 10 years, at least.

Interviewer [00:24:58] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:24:58] But the piece of the glass was still intact, and I brought it back and went to a neon shop here in town and said, how do I make these work? He says, well, you need one of these, this transformer thing here, and you need some wires, and you plug it in and bam, there you are. Gee, I can figure this one out. This is- This is fun. So anyway, got them up there, mounted them up on the wall there and then plugged them in and discovered there was two different colors. Even though they look the same when they’re not on, when you turn them on, it’s like two different colors.

Interviewer [00:25:29] And that just has to do with the gas. The kind of gas that’s in it?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:25:32] Yes, the kind of gas that’s in there. And so I thought that was fun and started looking around for other abandoned signs, talking to people, reading about neon and, you know, how to make it work. And so. And then that was about the time that I moved into the building here.

Interviewer [00:25:56] Okay. [00:25:57] Was Bruce Nauman doing some of his neon stuff? Have you- Had you seen that?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:26:02] Sure. No, I hadn’t really paid any, really, any real attention to that. I mean, I think I might have seen some of his things from time to time. I certainly knew about Dan Flavin, but he’s- He was doing more fluorescent than neon. But I, you know, and it wasn’t the fact that I wanted to learn how to bend the glass. I just wanted to use the product, the end product there to make, you know, to make sculpture, to make, you know, to turn that pieces and parts of a sign into something other than what it was originally meant to be. So it’s-

Interviewer [00:26:46] And have you ever- Have you ever stopped using the neon? Has it been neon medium all the way since then?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:26:53] Since then I was also working on this series of artificial satellites. And I’ve, you know, I sort of play around with those still occasionally, but mostly it’s been the neon, just because it’s something I enjoy working with and it’s fun.

Interviewer [00:27:13] Now, what are artificial satellites?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:27:14] For example, up here. There’s another one in the backyard. But artificial satellites are no tech. I call them NASA decoys, in that they look like they could be floating around up in space there, doing something. But, you know, and, you know, people always, you know, the one out in the backyard, you know, people are, you know-

Interviewer [00:27:39] Wondering what the hell you’re doing with that.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:27:41] They’re wondering what.

Interviewer [00:27:42] And who you’re spying on.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:27:44] Right, exactly. And I tell them it’s a, you know, I’ve got this secret government contract that I can’t talk about and that NASA is, you know, involved, but yeah, we can’t talk about that.

Interviewer [00:27:57] Alright.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:27:57] Yeah.

Interviewer [00:27:57] This is going on the Internet.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:27:59] Right, right. Oops. Anyway, they usually leave me alone after that. Yeah, they just think I’m nuts. And. Yeah, that’s fine.

Interviewer [00:28:10] How have you- Have you run into much trouble? Not really with the City of Cleveland, but with Cleveland in general and being an artist in Cleveland and maybe Clevelanders not being receptive to artwork or to new things because Cleveland sort of got a hard-to-change type mentality, conservative type?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:28:38] Right. Well, the work that I do with the neon is not easy. It’s not easy stuff in that it’s not like a painting. You get tired of the painting, you take it off your wall, you throw it in the closet, and, you know, maybe if you change your mind or you think about it, you might bring it out again later. Once my stuff goes up, it pretty much stays, unless somebody breaks it or, you know, or, you know, you really want to move it. But anyways, so it takes more of a commitment than a painting, a drawing, a photograph, something like that, where it’s contained in the frame. And so my people who have my work are committed to having the work. And yeah, the- Well, I was lucky back at the beginning of this year, at the end of last year, where somebody saw my show at the Asterisk gallery last year and said, let me see what I can do for you. He liked the work. He liked the idea. And he saw the sign down at Pat’s. He saw some of the other work that I had in the neighborhood here at the Literary and outside in the back at Edison’s and some of the other places like that. And so he got turned on to the idea of neon in a sort of a non-commercial, non-signage kind of way. And it fascinated him and he said, Let me see what I can do for you. And sure enough, six months later, I had a show in New York, and it was pretty damn exciting. But people of Cleveland, there are people that know what I’m doing, and whenever they see my things, they usually recognize it as my work, which is fun, except for sometimes people get confused by, like, the sign on the top of SPACES, which is not mine.

Interviewer [00:30:54] I thought it was. I just assumed it was because I found out you were on the board.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:30:58] Exactly. No, it’s not mine. I did work on that project and help coordinate the electrician, the crane operator, the construction people, the other kind of people. But the design is not mine. The sculpture is not mine. That is artists from down in Columbus by the name of Xan Palay. And she-

Interviewer [00:31:17] Can you spell that? Just so we know.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:31:18] X-A-N, Zan. Palay is P-A-L-A-Y.

Interviewer [00:31:23] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:31:23] Anyway, she, she- There was a call for proposals for that. And they- And she was the one that won that call. I didn’t actually even enter that because once again, I was too close to the project and in that I’m on the board and- Yeah, but, you know, I find it flattering that people think that’s my work. [But no, it’s not. I mean, even though we did help out, but it’s- It’s a very- I like her work a lot. So. But there are other things around, like the piece we just took down at the, at the Arcade that people know and also at the Lake View Cemetery project was, you know, so there’s been some things around that people see.

Interviewer [00:32:18] So there’s nothing, there’s really nothing that would make you want to move because of people not being interested or not caring about art?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:32:30] No. Well-

Interviewer [00:32:30] You have a good enough base of people that know what’s going on.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:32:34] Right. They- It’s- There are some, certainly some intelligent people. And no, I’m not, you know, I’m not gonna, you know, if I were rich and, you know, had some bottomless pocket of money, that I could move to New York and have a space and do the work there, that would certainly be great. But, you know, that’s not the reality of the situation. Yeah, no. And I find I like Cleveland because it’s got a lot of ethnicity, which is more than what I can say about Indianapolis, which is where I’m from. And there’s just, you know, there’s things going on here. People are always, you know, downplaying it and saying, you know, what a not great place it is. And I find it to be just, just fine. You know, of course, I’m in a good place in that I have a nice place to live and, you know, the studio and I associate, try and associate with, you know, intelligent people and, yeah, so that’s, you know, and there are lots of other complainers who- And I say, hey, that’s on you if you can’t, you know, figure out, you know, what to do.

Interviewer [00:33:55] Have you- Well, I guess you’ve been here since ’80, but within the last 10 years or so, have you noticed more of a push in the arts? I mean, there seems to be. Since I’ve been here.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:34:06] Right.

Interviewer [00:34:06] More galleries going up.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:34:08] Sure.

Interviewer [00:34:08] And MOCA’s doing more and better stuff. And the art museum is going to be rebuilt and they’re gonna-

Jeffry Chiplis [00:34:14] Oh, yeah, you know, definitely. And speaking of Joe Cimperman, we were talking about briefly before, he certainly recognizes the fact that the arts are an important part of what’s going on and the impact that they can have on neighborhoods and the community. So, you know, and once you got, you know, your political leaders seeing that and paying attention to that, then, you know, that’s going a long ways. But, yeah, there’s- I don’t know, it’s a very affordable city to live in, and it’s a city- I mean, you know, it’s not, you know, there’s lots of smaller- Like Columbus. I don’t- I wouldn’t, would never want to live there because I don’t see that it has the ethnicity that Cleveland does or, you know, even though they’ve got what the Wexner and they got a museum down there and whatnot. But so it reminds me a lot of Indianapolis down there, but, yeah, that’s another story.

Interviewer [00:35:20] Yeah. Do you ever make trips back to Indianapolis? You still have family back there?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:35:26] Yeah, my parents still live back there, and I still go see them. But as far as people I know, there’s not. Not a whole lot of people I know who are there. But, you know, it’s. It’s a nice place to visit, but-

Interviewer [00:35:41] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:35:41] You know the rest of that one.

Interviewer [00:35:42] Yeah. Let’s see here. Oh, here’s a good question, I think.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:36:04] Okay.

Interviewer [00:36:05] Okay. Which piece of public art do you like better, the Noguchi Portal or the Oldenburg Free Stamp downtown?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:36:15] Well, I have a much stronger connection to the Oldenburg Free Stamp because I was one among the protesters when it got canceled from out in front of the BP station. And I was happy to see that, you know, BP actually gave it to the city and endowed the thing for maintenance and whatnot, which I thought was a great idea for them. But my personal feeling is that when it was going to be out in front of the BP station, that the artist had no intention of finishing the bottom.

Interviewer [00:36:54] Mm hmm.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:36:55] Whereas when it got tipped over on the side, the way it is presented now, that he definitely had to finish that bottom. I don’t think it would have been done in the same way, is because you couldn’t see the “FREE” part of it.

Interviewer [00:37:11] I’ve heard that it was gonna be.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:37:12] Yes. Yeah, it was gonna be sitting, you know.

Interviewer [00:37:14] I didn’t believe the person who told me that because I thought, why would he do it straight down if he had “FREE” on the bottom?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:37:20] Right.

Interviewer [00:37:20] But he added that on.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:37:21] Well, no, it was- It was always meant to have “FREE” on the bottom, but I don’t think it would have been finished in quite the same way had it been standing up and- Yes. So to me, there’s more conceptually going on with the Free Stamp than there is. I mean, you know, with the Noguchi, I mean, it goes back to what I call plop art in that, you know, to me, the Noguchi piece is a fine example of plop art. Doesn’t really have anything to do with the environment that it’s sitting in, could be moved anywhere, and would still be what it is. Whereas, you know, conceptually, the Free Stamp, people talk about city hall and government and the Free Stamp, and just as a rubber stamp concept, I don’t think that many rubber stamps still get used in the general office workplace kind of thing, but still.

Interviewer [00:38:34] It’s like a neon sign. I mean, those are-

Jeffry Chiplis [00:38:38] Right. They don’t.

Interviewer [00:38:39] So it’s sort of like not a sentimental but a nostalgic, kind of nostalgic kind of feel you get.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:38:47] But still the whole concept of having, you know, something free. And actually, I actually made an addition of free stamps when it came out that I used at work and-

Interviewer [00:39:04] What work was that?

Jef Chiplis [00:39:05] Well, this is in the work that I do and my work that I do at a community development corporation in that I run this weatherization program, and it’s a free program for people who are income eligible. And so I stamp things free.

Interviewer [00:39:22] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:39:23] On there because it’s free program, which is hard to believe for a lot of people, but still. And it’s a program that’s funded by the gas company, that Dominion East Ohio Gas Company, that I’ve been doing for a number of years now, 15 years since they started the program. And it allows me to do the artwork and do the other things that I would rather be doing. [tape stops unexpectedly]

Interviewer [00:39:48] [Sorry] about that.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:39:49] That’s okay. Anyway, the Free Stamp and…

Interviewer [00:39:57] And the community development-

Jeffry Chiplis [00:39:59] Right. So anyway, I made these additions of them and I sold them for what I basically paid for them. I didn’t make any money on the deal, which was the whole free thing. Again, I didn’t actually give them away, but I think it cost me a couple bucks to get them made. So anyway. But I did a different type face on them than what he ended up with because I sort of did the one that I thought he was going to do, but he made it actually solid block letters, whereas mine were sort of, you know, a non-block letters, but without the solid-

Interviewer [00:40:38] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:40:38] Face behind them.

Interviewer [00:40:39] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:40:40] Anyway. Yeah, so I was given those two. It would definitely be the stamp.

Interviewer [00:40:45] Alright. And what- And I do want to- I wonder which question should I ask first?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:40:52] Okay.

Interviewer [00:40:55] The Jim Dine sculpture that went in in the Federal Building. Would you say that’s plop art? I think personally it goes well with the building, but some people, I’ve heard otherwise.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:41:12] I think he certainly thought about how it was going to interact with the building. So. But the thing is, it needs to be relit. If you look at the thing at night, whoever set the lights on the thing said it set them above where the piece is and below where the piece is. And there’s no light actually on the figure itself. And somebody really needs to take care of that. So anybody who’s reading this who knows that this is the case and it should be taken care of.

Interviewer [00:41:52] I’ve actually noticed that.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:41:53] Yes. And it just was, you know, it’s just. It’s still not right. And I’m sure to change that is a matter of loosening up a couple of bolts, tweaking the lights a little bit, and you’re done. But I mean, Jim Dine has done. I mean, he’s done variations on this, that theme for a long time. And is it plop art? Well, it’s kind of plop art in that it’s, let’s say it’s carefully plopped. Yeah, it’s carefully plopped. And it’s certainly not a figure of justice, which is, you know, what, you know, some people would. May think or, you know, think that it should be or could be or would have been. So it is, it’s the Venus de Milo. But. And people have talked about, well, it doesn’t have any head. It can’t speak, it doesn’t need arms, it can’t weigh justice. So it just becomes, you know, sort of an ornament, whatever. But, you know, yeah, we’ll say it’s carefully plopped. He thought about it. It’s a huge piece of bronze hung on the side of that building, which is pretty amazing in and of itself.

Interviewer [00:43:24] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:43:25] So.

Interviewer [00:43:27] And then the question I was gonna ask, can you talk a little bit more about the community development and what you’re doing with that, the committee? What did you call it? Community development committee?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:43:44] Well, I work for Clark Metro Development Corporation, which is a community development corporation. They do commercial development and residential development in the neighborhoods. And I’ve been doing what’s called the Housewarming Program for Dominion East Ohio Gas Company. And what I do is I go into people’s homes and check them for safety. I check their furnaces, hot water tanks for carbon monoxide, and look at the house and see how I can best help them. As far as weatherization being insulation, furnace repairs, that kind of thing. Help them out. Goes. And what’s great is it’s a- You don’t have to be a homeowner to be qualified for this. It’s an income- If you meet the income guidelines, then you know, we can keep people warm, you know, which is a great concept. And what the other reason- One of the other reasons why I keep doing it is because it’s really helping people and I’ve saved lives, which is amazing. Whereas you go into somebody’s house and their furnace is belching carbon monoxide. And, you know, like, wow, you people been feeling sick, headaches? And they’re going, yeah, we go through aspirins by the caseload. You know, I’m going like, well, your furnace is trying to kill you here. You know, and you’re lucky that you don’t go out of here feet first. So anyway, to be able to help them out and you know, do some, some real good for people who need it is a very rewarding experience. And plus it’s. I’m an independent contractor doing this and so if something comes up and I need to go, you know, de. Install some work or install some work, I don’t schedule anything for that day and I go and do what I need to do and I don’t have to make any apologies to anybody, get my work done, you know. You know, everybody’s happy.

Interviewer [00:45:53] So this is free for anyone who finds out about it and calls?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:46:00] Well, you can, you can call the community development corporation in your neighborhood or you can call the Cleveland Housing Network and their number is 574–7100 and tell them that you want a Housewarming application. So anyway, yes, it’s a program that the gas company doesn’t promote a lot. I think they could do a better job of it. But you know, theyre- I’ve been doing it for 15 years now and have seen thousands of houses.

Interviewer [00:46:35] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:46:35] And you know, it’s amazing where we go into somebody’s house, they’re a first-time homeowner, and I can go through that house and just fill them with knowledge of about their house, tell ’em all kinds of things, and they’re just like, wow, I never knew that. And gee, okay, here’s a chimney, clean-out door, and this is why we have that. And this is what it’s for. And they’re going like, Wow, I never, never even noticed that. You know, and so there’s, you know, and just to be able to, you know, to me it’s great to be able to talk to homeowners and, and enlighten them about what they’re doing. And I’ve had other people who are like going, I’m like saying, well, did you see this house in the daytime before you like, you know, agreed to buy it? And they go, well, yeah, that’s a funny thing. They could only show it to us at night. And you know, I’m like, you, you know, should have passed on this one and looked for another one. But anyway, that’s beside the point. But anyway, to be able to help people out and share the knowledge with them is great.

Interviewer [00:47:36] And does this. Do they work with the Tremont west community?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:47:41] Actually, I used to work. Yes, we used to work with Tremont West. But the people who I work with at Clark Metro now actually cover this neighborhood because over the years a lot of the houses over here have been done and so there’s not really that many more to do. And what happened was, as I- Anyway, I ended up working for the Merrick House out of, out of Walton street, out of Walton Avenue office. And anyway, they combined with Clark Metro to do basically the same thing I was doing. So anyway, and I service pretty much the west side. There are a couple areas that other people do, but it’s, it’s a great program and I tell people about it and you know, people.

Interviewer [00:48:38] Alright, a couple more questions.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:48:40] Sure.

Interviewer [00:48:41] How I read about, I found out about you in Art in America magazine and then I recognized your name in someone’s interview, Tremont interview, so I was wondering if that article has what it means. Do you care or are you really ecstatic about it?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:49:04] It was a huge vote of validity that somebody recognized your work as important and, and it changes people’s attitudes towards your work, changes people’s, you know, definitely raises your profile in the community. And so there it was. Yes, it was amazing. But still, at the same time, there’s, there’s a pretty finite group of people that reads Art in America. I mean, granted, they’re all the people that you want to read the magazine, but even, even when I got the review in the New York Times, I had a call at 7 o’clock in the morning saying, wow, I just read about you in the New York Times. Great review. Congratulations. And, you know, and so I’m like laying there in bed listening to this phone message as somebody’s, you know, you know, tell- Somebody’s calling me and I’m going, wow, New York Times, wow. And you know, so there was, so there was lots of people that, you know, read that and, you know, got major responses from people. And after I came back from that show, I did a show at Superior Gallery called Chante Morale [?], which is a French homage to this artist by name, Morale. And so I did that show right when I came back from New York and then did another one at Lucky’s Cafe here in Tremont. And, and what was, what was also amazing is my friend Steve Smith, who went to New York with me to de. Install the show there, put up the website. He had such a great time in New York and we had some, you know, some fun and he was very Helpful and kind in that he put up the website for me, which is, okay, go on www.agentofchaos.com, which is his website. And then you can go to guest artist from there and go to the, go to my website, which is backslash Chiplis. But anyway, and he does, he does some, some good work too. But as far as all the press, I mean, you know, it was something that was, I’m totally grateful for and, but people, it was something that somebody said, well, let me see what I can do for you. And you know, we’ve all heard that before. And you know, and as an artist, I’m like, well, yeah, okay. Yeah. And then all of a sudden he’s like, it happened.

Interviewer [00:51:52] It happened. It really did happen.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:51:52] And it really did happen.

Interviewer [00:51:53] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:51:54] And he came over, he says, first it was like, oh yeah, show me your slides. And so I show him some slides. And then he came back, he says, show me everything you’ve ever done. And at that point we’re figuring this guy’s pretty serious here.

Interviewer [00:52:09] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:52:10] And even though the show at the White Box in New York, they changed the date on me four times, but each time they changed it, it kept getting better. So I’m like, okay. And so first it was like at the beginning of December and it was going to be up on the 16th floor of this building and it was part of a group show. Well, okay, that’s fine. Then they moved it. Okay, well we want to do it later in December and you got the whole, you know, space up there. Well, then they said, okay, well we want to do it in January, but we’re going to move you downstairs, ground floor. And then it was like, we’re going to move it again, but you can have the whole thing. So it was like, wow.

Interviewer [00:52:59] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:53:00] So and the fact for, you know, somebody who comes in from the hinterlands, you know, and gets a one man show in New York and it’s, you know, it’s one of those, one of those fantasy dreams that, that artists have that you think that are. Is never going to happen, but it does, you know, and it was, it was pretty amazing to go to New York and set up the show, have lots of people and people like, people who came to the show who I really respect, like Stefan Antonakos, who is like the grandfather of neon art, who came to my show, saw it, liked it, said he liked it, didn’t accuse me of ripping him off like he does, like a lot of, you know, a lot of other people. And so, and then there was other people, other neon people in New York who came to the show and go, wow, I see things being done with neon that I’ve never seen before.

Interviewer [00:54:09] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:54:10] And to me that was like, wow, there’s a validation.

Interviewer [00:54:13] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:54:14] Is when, you know, when you got.

Interviewer [00:54:15] People in from the business.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:54:17] From the business. Exactly. Saying wow, you know, this is, this is, you know, this is very interesting.

Interviewer [00:54:23] You covered both sides. People from the art business and people from exactly the original.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:54:27] Exactly. And there were- Yeah. Dennis Oppenheim came to the show and you know, there was in other people who, who. And successful wise, I sold a couple of pieces while I was there. You know, one of them was to Alan Ravenstine of formerly of Pere Ubu, who somebody brought to the show and said, wow, I really like neon. I’ve got a couple pieces. I’d like another one. So that was great.

Interviewer [00:54:54] I’m sorry, what is Pere Ubu?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:54:56] Pere Ubu is the Cleveland band from the late ’70s. David Thomas was in it and are still, they still get together and go around once in a while. But Pere Ubu played at Pirates Cove and some of the other, other old, old places. But anyway, big-time underground rock band.

Interviewer [00:55:20] P-E-R- [crosstalk]

Jeffry Chiplis [00:55:22] P-E-R-E U-B-U. Yeah. And as, take their name from the, from the, what’s it’s name? [Ubu] Roi play. Anyway.

Interviewer [00:55:38] I’ll look it up later.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:55:39] Yeah. But anyways, so yeah, it was, it was just very exciting to, to be able to go, to go to New York and know that you’re, you know, know that you’re doing stuff. And another really funny thing was seeing. Looking at the show from outside, outside the gallery. And I remember when I glanced at it and I, I- There was a reflection from across the street of the work and I like turned around across the street and looked across the street and I’m going, wait a minute, who’s got another neon show across the street?

Interviewer [00:56:14] Shoot.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:56:14] I was like, what? But anyway, it was, it was a reflection. But still at the same time it was pretty funny. And the people there were very nice and we had a good time.

Interviewer [00:56:24] So when was the show in New York?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:56:28] It was January, February of this year, of 2003.

Interviewer [00:56:33] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:56:34] Alright.

Interviewer [00:56:36] Well, let’s see. I think I’ve asked all my questions that I really wanted to ask. I did want to say congratulations because that’s pretty neat. Even-

Jeffry Chiplis [00:56:50] Thank you. And, and people, people say that, I mean, you know, people say that all the time. Not that I’m making any, any small deal about it, but I smile and say thank you.

Interviewer [00:57:02] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:57:03] Because it’s, it’s a great thing and, you know, a lot of people work, you know, all their lives, and it doesn’t happen. And, you know, I just happen to make a very, you know, lucky connection in somebody.

Interviewer [00:57:21] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:57:22] You know, said, you know, you’re doing good stuff. So. Yeah, it was amazing.

Interviewer [00:57:27] Alright. And do you have anything to add about the community or anything before I cut the tape off?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:57:38] The community? Well, I don’t know. Three months. It’s- It’s good. There are a lot of people who have come and gone. There are other people like Ron Nassau, who had a gallery here for a number of years, and he was out in New Mexico and found a place out there that he really liked and, you know, decided he had had enough of Cleveland and he moved out there. And he’s doing his thing out there, which is, you know, more power to him. Excuse me. He was one of the people who came in the beginning, you know, not long after I came here. So there are, you know, and there are other people who. Who are still here and who are artists and do good work and, you know, it’s. It’s a great thing. But, yeah, there’s, you know.

Interviewer [00:58:33] I wanted to ask you about the- I should’ve asked it earlier. One of the big draws for you coming here, besides the cheap housing, you got a good deal.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:58:42] Inexpensive. [laughs]

Interviewer [00:58:43] Inexpensive. Okay. [crosstalk] The inexpensive housing was a proximity to everything and closeness to downtown. The neighborhood itself had a lot?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:58:55] Right. I didn’t- I didn’t really, you know, when I came here, I looked at this building. I didn’t really look at anything around it, and I didn’t- I don’t even think I really thought about- I thought about it as being a proximity where I was working at the time. I go, oh, gee, It’ll take me 10 minutes to get to work now instead of an hour and change.

Interviewer [00:59:15] Mm hmm.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:59:16] So that proximity. But proximity to downtown, too, even. We can go back to an old story when they were. They were closing a couple of bridges that led to downtown.

Interviewer [00:59:35] And the Abbey Road Bridge.

Jeffry Chiplis [00:59:37] Yeah, the Abbey Bridge. And also the bridge onto 71.

Interviewer [00:59:42] Was that in your time here?

Jeffry Chiplis [00:59:44] Oh, yeah, yeah. And they had the- They had the Tremont Grand Prix, which was a race that Tremont West organized that- And we had a race to downtown, and I actually had my Chevette at the time, and Jay Holtcamp was my co-pilot. And anyway, we- It was pretty funny. But the thing. But the thing was, is, like, you know, I talked to people about that, and they were like going, it takes you 10 minutes to get downtown. I sit in my car for a half an hour on the freaking, you know, freeway trying to get downtown because I’m stuck in the traffic. And I live out and you know, I live out in, you know, Bay Villager.

Interviewer [01:00:30] Yeah.

Jeffry Chiplis [01:00:30] Someplace much further away. And, and they go, you, you’re complaining. And I go, well, you know, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s inconvenient to have these bridges closed. But anyway, we, we actually run, won that race.

Interviewer [01:00:46] Again. Congratulations.

Jeffry Chiplis [01:00:47] It was, it was a 10-minute ride, you know, but still people were like, you know, no, it’s, it’s a matter of excess and community involvement and all kinds of other things there.

Interviewer [01:01:00] And real quick, could you tell me. So the people on the Internet reading this will know about the rollerskating party when they closed, when they were building the highway in Tremont.

Jeffry Chiplis [01:01:10] Right. This was a party that we had. It was, actually, it was done through SPACES. There was a style and auction for a mystery party that we would do for whoever made the highest bid on this thing. And there were several other people involved in this, but we ended up having- This was before 490 was complete. Well, it was completed over to 71, but before it was open. And there was a number of us who got together with these people who had the winning bid. And we got together and had a rollerskating party up on the 490 freeway, which is the shortest freeway in the state of Ohio, I believe. And we got up there and it was a rollerskating party, and we set up this- We had a grill and a picnic for these people and just had dinner and I think somebody brought a boombox and we had some music and dancing in a rollerskating party. And we got roller skates for everybody. But the thing was, we didn’t realize at the time was that the finish on the concrete was quite rough. And so you had this, this vibration that was like went up through your feet and into your, all your limbs that made it less than a nice smooth asphalt kind of or hardwood floor kind of thing. But still it was fun because you got to have some fun on the freeway before it actually got opened to the public.

Interviewer [01:02:50] And do you remember exactly what year that was? Oh, I don’t know, early ’80s.

Jeffry Chiplis [01:02:56] No, it had to- It-

Interviewer [01:02:58] Oh, you told me it was the ’90s.

Jeffry Chiplis [01:03:00] I, I’m guessing it’s- It was probably like ’89, ’90. I don’t, I don’t remember. But I’m sure you could, you could look it up and yeah. And whatever year that the, that 490 got completed, because it used to just come to a stop below the 14th Street or just ust east of the 14th Street bridge.

Interviewer [01:03:23] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [01:03:24] And they finally finished it and took it all the way over to 71 and 55. Or 77 or 55.

Interviewer [01:03:31] Alright.

Jeffry Chiplis [01:03:32] This was fun.

Interviewer [01:03:33] I think I’m gonna cut it off.

Jeffry Chiplis [01:03:35] Cool.

Interviewer [01:03:35] Okay.

Jeffry Chiplis [01:03:36] Good time.

Interviewer [01:03:36] Yep. Thank you.

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