Abstract
In this 2025 interview, longtime East Cleveland resident Mother Mary Hopper recounts her early life in the Jim Crow South. She describes her experiences with farming, education, church life, and community support in rural South Carolina before moving to Baltimore in the mid-1950s. Hopper explains her eventual relocation to Cleveland in 1958, and her pursuit of higher education and a nursing career while raising children. She details purchasing her East Cleveland home in 1975, and the decades of neighborhood change she witnessed.
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Interviewee
Hopper, Mary (interviewee)
Interviewer
Mays, Nicholas S. (interviewer)
Project
East Cleveland
Date
9-23-2025
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
69 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Mary Hopper interview, 23 September 2025" (2025). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 757007.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1404
Transcript
Nick Mays [00:00:01] Hello, Mother Hopper.
Mary Hopper [00:00:03] Good morning. I’m excited sitting here. Who am I?
Nick Mays [00:00:10] Oh, you are a very special resident of East Cleveland. We’re excited to get your story.
Mary Hopper [00:00:17] Thank you.
Nick Mays [00:00:18] So I’ll start off here with my little introduction, and then we’ll then start the questioning or the conversation. Right. Because this is a conversation between you and I. Okay. My name is Nicholas Mays. Money. I forgot the doctor. My name is Dr. Nicholas Mays.
Mary Hopper [00:00:39] Good morning.
Nick Mays [00:00:40] And today is September 23, 2025. We are here at East Cleveland in East Cleveland at the Lakeside Bible Church. Interviewing for the East Cleveland Oral History Project, I am honored to be joined by Mother Mary Hoppers, a longtime resident who first came to East Cleveland in 1975 and has lived in the same home ever since. [00:01:10] Mother Hopper brings with her a story that stretches from growing up in the Jim Crow south to moving to Baltimore and Cleveland and finally planning deep roots here in East Cleveland. Her story is one of faith, perseverance and community. Ms. Hopper, Mother Hopper, thank you for joining us. It is my great honor. [00:01:37] Can you begin by telling us your name, age and date of birth?
Mary Hopper [00:01:43] My name is Mary Lee Hayes Hopper, and I was born in Mullen, South Carolina […] 1935. I grew up in Mullen, South Carolina. I finished high school, Pall Meadow High School in Merlin, South Carolina. I was about the second highest in my class at graduation time. I graduated in 1953. And then some of my classmates came by my house that Sunday after graduation and say, I’m going to college. [00:02:45] I said, me too. And I didn’t know how I was going to college because I had no living parents. I did not know about the grants, but I said immediately, I need to. And I don’t know how I went, but I went to Friendship Junior College in Rock Hill, South Carolina. Now it’s a. [00:03:15] It’s. I can’t. It’s hard. I hate to think about it because I don’t know how I went financially because there were no grants, I had no parents. And I hate to think about it because it’s puzzling. I don’t know how I went. It was a miracle. It was God given and I went there, stayed two years and graduated with B.A. [00:03:45] i think a B.A. degree. I took up business and while I was there, I got a job for one of the instructors. I kept her little girl and got some change doing that way.
Nick Mays [00:04:06] Is this in South Carolina?
Mary Hopper [00:04:08] This is Rock Hill, South Carolina, on the other side of Charles. Charlotte.
Nick Mays [00:04:16] So, Charles, when you first. The first time you went to college was In South Carolina.
Mary Hopper [00:04:21] South Carolina.
Nick Mays [00:04:23] This is after high school. Mother Hopper, can you share with us? You have a birthday coming soon. When is your birthday? How old are you going to be?
Mary Hopper [00:04:33] My birthday September 27, 1935, and I will be 90 years of age.
Nick Mays [00:04:41] Is this on Saturday coming.
Mary Hopper [00:04:42] This is on Saturday coming.
Nick Mays [00:04:43] Oh, God bless you. 90 years old. Thank you. Thank you for that. I want to begin by asking you your family dynamic, you know, how many kids or grandkids you have?
Mary Hopper [00:05:04] Okay. I have the mother of four children, three girls and a son. And I have about. Let me see. Each daughter had. I had three daughters. Each daughter had three kids, so that’s nine. And my son had three, and that’s 12. So I got about 12 grandkids. Some of those were bonus or plus that they had wives, had other children. [00:05:48] So I include them. I got about 15 grandkids.
Nick Mays [00:05:53] Today you joined by one of your grandkids. Can you talk. Can you tell us his name and talk about your relationship with him?
Mary Hopper [00:06:03] Well, Jermell. His name is Jermell Lett, and he was born in the house across the street at 1830s Penrose. His mother came from the hospital and sat him, laid him down. Then later on, she sat him in my kitchen floor and he became my baby. Ever since then, he grew up in my house. [00:06:30] He’s my second oldest grandson, and he has been staying with me when he was younger, off and on. Then when he got older, he moved with me. He went to college from my house. He helped me with housing, with anything I had to do, he was right there to help me. So my family in Detroit used to tell me when I visit, say, she had him for you. [00:06:57] That’s your baby. And I accept that. That’s my baby. And he’s been a beautiful grandson. He stayed up under me. He has learned a lot from me because he’s a good listener, and I thank God for him. He believes in Jesus Christ and he goes to community church and he’s active and he. [00:07:28] A lot of his associates tell him, I know that your grandmother raised you because you’re different. And I thank God to hear that, that he showed some grandmother traits, attitudes as he grew up.
Nick Mays [00:07:49] Thank you for that, Mother. Mother Hopper, can you. I want to start off back in South Carolina, you know, just understanding or talking about your growing up. You know, what it was like growing up in the Jim Crow south. And what were you like as a little girl and a teenager.
Mary Hopper [00:08:20] Growing up in the South? Beautiful people are beautiful, helpful, friendly, caring and sharing and godly, Of course. My grandmother raised me along with my mother, brother. So I was in the house with my grandmother and my uncle. I called my grandmother mama and I called my uncle Danny. My mother deceased when I was four years of age. [00:09:04] My father deceased when I was six years of age. My grandmother deceased when I was 16. Very rough age, teenager. But then I became the lady of the house and continued my schooling and education and everything that she had taught me. That I became a young lady, that she taught well because I didn’t need any more to be a woman than what she’d already taught me. [00:09:42] How to carry myself, how to act, how to go to church to taught me about education. And she was just beautiful. In my life.
Nick Mays [00:09:55] Can you recall having any chores to do around the house or outside?
Mary Hopper [00:10:00] Oh, I had the whole house, yeah, because I was the lady of the house, the girl of the house. And the house was six rooms, a long front porch, big backyard, a. A big field on both sides of the house. We grew corn in one field. And in the back we had a garden of all kinds of vegetables. [00:10:24] And then we had a cow named Pip. And I would never try to milk the cow because he kicked a lot. But my uncle, who I called dad, he would always. Milk Pit was his name. But I would always churn the milk to get the butter. So we churned milk to get butter from the cow. [00:10:48] And we had all kind of. We had chickens, we had pigs, all kinds of stuff. And our uncle was a hunter, and he liked to go hunting and bring back rabbits and squirrels and possums and everything. And he would clean them himself and cook them himself. And the rabbit legs were just like chicken legs. [00:11:14] Really good, really good. In the garden we picked that. I did peel, shell the beans, chucked the corn. And we put that stuff in jars and cans and in freezer bags. We had tomatoes, greens, everything. So when winter came, all we had to do open the freezer or unscrew a cap on the jar. [00:11:42] Had to make this peaches, whatever. And talking about tasting good in the winter. It was delicious, very fresh tasting. Then when I. My grandmother always taught me. Went to Sunday school and went to church and we had Bypu. And then we had an evening service when I leave home, like 9 in the morning, I wouldn’t get back to about 9 at night. [00:12:15] I would be in church all day with different activities. My grandmother was very religious, very helpful, very caring, very loving and kind to me.
Nick Mays [00:12:36] As a scholar of African American history. You know, I either teach about or read on a lot of traditions that came from the south, like the Sunday dinner. I’m wondering if you recall, if you guys ever had Sunday dinners in the South.
Mary Hopper [00:12:56] Sunday dinners?
Nick Mays [00:12:57] Yeah, Sunday dinner.
Mary Hopper [00:12:59] Oh, yes. That was the best dinner of all. We have Sunday dinners. And some of the members would invite the pastor to eat dinner with us on Sunday, and they would cook some of everything. But then at that time, we had to wait until they finished eating, but they would cook some of everything. [00:13:25] Dressing, potato, salad, greens, beans. They would kill the chicken up the yard. Fresh chicken. And we had that on Sunday. Biscuits, good biscuits. Sunday was just a blessing. We went to Sunday school, went to church. And Myrtle beach was nearby, about 30 minutes away. And after church, we could go to Myrtle Beach. [00:13:56] We get in a car. Lord, we’d go to Myrtle beach, but we had to go to church first. And then a group of us would get together and go to Myrtle beach and spend the rest of the Sunday evening that we didn’t go to. Bypu and all the other stuff they had. But it was really nice growing up in the South. [00:14:19] The elder was very caring, helpful, and friendly. And they were very, very concerned about me growing up as a young lady without parents. And all of them would invite me to their house for dinner, invite me to spend the night, because some nights I was really afraid to stay in the house by myself at night. [00:14:49] And they were caring, sharing, and gave me gifts. It’s just a difference from growing up in the north to growing up in the South. The people really love you and cared about you.
Nick Mays [00:15:02] Thank you, Ms. Hopper. I have two more questions. Questions in the south, and then we’ll move on to Baltimore. First, I have to. I want to make a comment. You’re making me hungry, Mother. Talking about Sunday dinner. It just sound good.
Mary Hopper [00:15:22] Yeah.
Nick Mays [00:15:27] I know. Again, in my. In my research and my foundational understanding of the history of black people and African Americans in the south, parents and elders would try to shield the kids as much as possible from seeing and experiencing segregation and Jim Crow and violence and. And nevertheless, it’s hard to be shielded from everything because you have the signs and there’s parks you can’t go to, and there’s schools you can’t go to. [00:16:09] I’m wondering if you can. If you ever recall or can you.
Mary Hopper [00:16:13] Recall.
Nick Mays [00:16:16] Experiencing segregation or racism in Jim Crow?
Mary Hopper [00:16:21] Yes, we had separate schools. The elementary school, you know, the blacks had their school, junior high school. The blacks had theirs. The Caucasians had theirs. In high school, we had a separate high school. It was separate.
Nick Mays [00:16:46] Can you recall, like, ever not, you know, not being able to go to a park or go to a swimming pool. Because of segregation?
Mary Hopper [00:16:58] No, too much segregation at the park. We went to the park. I see.
Nick Mays [00:17:04] How about. Thank you for that, Mother Hopper. How about high school? You know, in high school, who you know, how were you in high school? You know, what kind of things you did, you know, during school or outside of school. Tell us about Mother Hopper. In high school.
Mary Hopper [00:17:27] In high school, as a high school.
Nick Mays [00:17:29] Student, if you can recall.
Mary Hopper [00:17:33] As a high school student, I took a part in many things. I learned how to sew because we had a class called home economics and we had to make dresses and do different things in that class, and I loved that. In high school we had to learn how to speak French and I loved that. [00:17:56] I did well in that. In high school I tried to play basketball and I was a mess. I wanted to play basketball, but I wasn’t too successful with being on the major team and going to different cities to play. But I liked it. On baseball now, I could run very, very fast. I played baseball. [00:18:23] Well, a softball.
Nick Mays [00:18:28] So you were athletic? You were athletic.
Mary Hopper [00:18:31] Yeah, I could run. These little bow legs used to make. Yeah, I like that.
Nick Mays [00:18:39] Would you say you were outgoing in high school? Would you say you were outgoing in high school?
Mary Hopper [00:18:47] Yes.
Nick Mays [00:18:47] Okay, so you weren’t the quiet person, right? You were outgoing.
Mary Hopper [00:18:53] We was outgoing because we had little different groups and I would be with some of the groups or one of the groups. As long as they didn’t get in trouble. If they was a group that seemed like they wanted to start something or do something that wasn’t right, I would just go away the next day. [00:19:21] They would never see me. They would never know why I wouldn’t be with them again.
Nick Mays [00:19:29] I meant to ask you earlier, can you recall what your grandmother did? Did she work outside the home?
Mary Hopper [00:19:41] When I was really young, she worked with the tobacco. The farmers would come by like 4 o’ clock in the morning and see who wanted. They would come by the evening before and see who wanted to go the next morning and they would pick them up. And she used to work tobacco. She used to crop tobacco. [00:20:10] She used to graze tobacco and she used to tie tobacco. Getting tobacco ready to ship to make cigarettes.
Nick Mays [00:20:20] Yeah, farming tobacco. I see. I know a lot of. Especially during that time, a lot of people were sharecroppers or picking cotton. But you say your grandmother picked.
Mary Hopper [00:20:34] She picked cotton too.
Nick Mays [00:20:35] Oh, did she?
Mary Hopper [00:20:38] Yeah, we picked cotton. We picked strawberries, we picked. Whatever they wanted help with, we picked. They would come and get us to go and help them. I think it was 5 cent a basket with strawberries at that time. You had to pick a lot of baskets of strawberries to make any money.
Nick Mays [00:20:59] Did you ever help?
Mary Hopper [00:21:00] Did you ever go, oh, yeah, I did the same thing she did when I grew up. Tobacco, packed tobacco. I was very skinny and I used to jump around in these big barrels trying to pack tobacco, but. But I couldn’t hardly pack it good enough because it had to weigh a certain amount. [00:21:19] And I’m just stumping and stomping. I was very skinny, so I had to kind of pack it over and over again for it to get the weight that it needed to go to Winston Salem, North Carolina.
Nick Mays [00:21:37] How about your uncle help take care of you?
Mary Hopper [00:21:41] My uncle worked 32 years at a sawmill and he did get one of his fingers cut off doing his work. He was a very nice uncle. I fixed his dinner and made sure it was very hot when I gave it to him. He liked his food real hot. So I was a lady that got the dinner ready, took it through the woods to the mill where he worked. [00:22:16] And then it was hot when he got there. He was a good worker. And in the evening when he got off from the work at the mill, he was a carpenter. He made scream dose screen windows and sold them. And he also liked to can. He had canner and he bought cans and seal up the stuff from the crops. [00:22:47] Beans, corn, whatever. So he always made money. And he was always very smart man. Very smart man. After work he had jobs. All the neighbors wanted him to make screen doughs, screen runners, canned food, whatever. Oh, yeah, don’t forget he was a hunter. Oh, he hunted rabbits and squirrels and possums. He was a busy, busy, busy man.
Nick Mays [00:23:22] Did you grow up with other kids?
Mary Hopper [00:23:24] Did I do it?
Nick Mays [00:23:25] Did you grow up with other, like, sisters, siblings or cousins in your grandma’s house? Or are you the only.
Mary Hopper [00:23:32] Yes. I had a cousin that lived, I guess, a half a mile from me. And I would walk over, ride a bike to her and play and be with her. And her mother was very loving and very kind. And I spent many nights with them sometimes. And sometimes the neighbors called me to spend nights with them. [00:24:06] They thought that I was lonely or afraid to stay in the house by myself. And they would always invite me over to spend the night and eat breakfast with them. Next day, the neighbors were out of sight. Superb. Very motherly, very kind, very giving, very caring.
Nick Mays [00:24:27] Well, thank you, Mother Hopper. I want to move on now to Baltimore. We’re going to leave the south in our journey today, in our Conversation. And we’re going to go to Baltimore now. And I believe, and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s 1955. When you went to Baltimore?
Mary Hopper [00:24:52] Yeah, because I went to apprenticeship junior college in 1953. Right after I graduated from high school in South Carolina. And then I graduated from Baltimore. I mean, Rock Hill 55. And then I wanted to get a better job and do better things. I moved to Baltimore, Maryland. I had an uncle there. And I asked could I come and stay with him a while. [00:25:24] And he said yes. And I went there. And I didn’t like Baltimore for some reason. It was kind of rowdy shooting and. Well, I guess. But anyway, he made me welcome. I think he worked in a steelyard or something. And then I wasn’t doing too well with the uncle that I left South Carolina to go visit. [00:25:59] I had an aunt that lived there also. So I got in touch with her and she told me that I could come and live with her. And I went to the other side of Baltimore, the West side part. So I went and stayed with her. I got a job, I think I was doing. [00:26:27] Keeping kids, keeping kids or either doing housework. I would always go to find me a job. And then while I was staying with her, the houses were lined up front. They had rows of houses and an alley between them. And this young man used to come over through the alley to my aunt’s house. [00:26:53] But he would come over there before I met him. And she was telling me about him, how he like you and how kind he is and how nice he is. But at that time I really wasn’t interested. I was trying to better myself with jobs and trying to find myself at that time. [00:27:17] And he would come over there every day, every day. And then he find out what time I got off the bus. Bus like eucalyptus of penrose. Get off the bus and walk down. He would be at the bus stop waiting for me. And it was making me so angry because I wasn’t interested. [00:27:41] I would tell the bus driver, go to the next stop and I would get off. Then I went to the next stop and got off. But every day that he know that I’m off, he’s coming to meet me. And then he’s at my aunt’s house. Every day I get home and my aunt keeps selling him to me. [00:28:02] He likes you. I think he’ll be nice for you. And he loves you. And she kept selling him to me. And the more she sold him to me, the more I hate him.
Nick Mays [00:28:16] Really quick, could you just for clarification can you tell us your aunt’s name? And then tell us the name of the gentleman who was pursuing you at the bus stop?
Mary Hopper [00:28:29] My aunt’s name was Lucinda Hayes. She was a beautiful aunt. She was an instructor. And, you know, she always would tell me. I always could talk to her about different things. Then my husband lived in the alley right behind her, and he would always walk across the alley, and he would be there about every day I came home, and they had been talking and being friends all that day. [00:29:10] They were waiting on me. The more they wound up selling to me, the more I hated him. But anyway, I finally. He finally was successful. He was my husband. And he was telling me about Cleveland. I was telling him I didn’t like Baltimore. He said, well, you should go to Cleveland because for better jobs. [00:29:39] And I got a cousin there. You can rent a room. We could rent a room from her. And so one day I decided to say yes, and we got on the bus and came to Cleveland.
Nick Mays [00:29:56] Before we talk about Cleveland, how excited was he when he said yes? Seems like he was pursuing you for a long time. And you finally said yes?
Mary Hopper [00:30:04] Yes. Mama said, sure.
Nick Mays [00:30:05] He was excited.
Mary Hopper [00:30:06] Excited. Well, he liked me. He showed a lot of love and a lot of care. Sometimes if a man likes you, it’s kind of easy for the woman to kind of come on in because he’s showing so much care and love. So he was a very nice man. Very nice. Cleveland was, like, he said, very industrious at that time.
Nick Mays [00:30:38] So you moved in to Cleveland in 1958. Can you tell us your husband’s first name?
Mary Hopper [00:30:45] His first name was Oscar.
Nick Mays [00:30:47] Oscar. Okay. So you moved to Cleveland in 1958. Do you recall leaving Baltimore and coming to Cleveland? I’m sorry, can you recall actually driving or flying to.
Mary Hopper [00:31:05] We caught the bus and came to Cleveland, and he had a relative here, and I rented a room. She was living in Wade Park. In. Wade Park. And the street that’s going. Disappeared across that way, but anyway.
Nick Mays [00:31:32] And Wade Park’s in the east. Is in the east side of Cleveland. Wade Park.
Mary Hopper [00:31:47] Then I stayed with her for a while, and then I went walking through the neighborhood, and I saw a house that needed fixing up, and no one was living in it. And I got the phone number and called about that house. So my husband and I did the painting, the Carpenter and whatever, and made it livable at a small price a month. [00:32:17] And we stayed there for a while. Then we moved on Linwood near Lee park, and then stayed there for a while. And during this time, when I was Working at Ohio Freight and Salvage. There was one on Woodland, there was one on Huff. Then they moved to Superior and finally they moved out of Lorain. [00:32:44] That’s when I didn’t work anymore. I worked Woodland, Huff and Superior. And they were very, very helpful to me. Very helpful, very caring. They would let me on my break at lunch hour, they would let me go to Tri C and take a class. They were very nice. And I was the head cashier and they would let me have one phone on the cashier, I mean on the phone and the other phone ranging up customers. [00:33:27] I was babysitting on the phone. And my children, I had four children. I didn’t have a sit up with them. So they were very nice. Let me take classes during any time I had to take them. And so then I finally went to try to see full time. I did a couple classes at the west side campus and then I did most of classes from the east side. [00:34:02] And I graduated from the east side campus with a BA and a Bachelor of Art and a Bachelor of Science.
Nick Mays [00:34:17] Madam Hopper, were all your children born in Cleveland?
Mary Hopper [00:34:20] All the children born in Cleveland.
Nick Mays [00:34:24] Just for clarity, when you moved to Cleveland with your, with your husband? So two questions. Were you guys married in Baltimore or were you married in Cleveland?
Mary Hopper [00:34:37] Cleveland. We got married in Cleveland.
Nick Mays [00:34:39] Okay. And then second, when you moved to Cleveland, did you stay with his family? His aunt or your family?
Mary Hopper [00:34:48] I didn’t have any family here. I don’t have any now. I stayed with his family and they weren’t nice. I have to tell you, they weren’t nice.
Nick Mays [00:35:01] Can you talk about, you know, the initial years in Cleveland and more in particular like having children, you know.
Mary Hopper [00:35:12] Pardon?
Nick Mays [00:35:12] Can you talk about having your children in Cleveland? You know, having kids in Cleveland and who was your first kid who was first born?
Mary Hopper [00:35:25] Okay. I have a daughter by the name of Faye. She was my firstborn. He named her, I wanted to name her. We had a book with names in it. I wanted to name her Renee. So he wanted to name her Fay. So he won, he named her Faye. And I named the second girl Renee. [00:35:50] So we got Faye and we got Renee. And my third daughter is Lorraine. I named her after my aunt in Detroit because she was with us a lot, coming back and forth to Cleveland to see us while I was carrying her. Then finally I had a son.
Nick Mays [00:36:16] Was he your favorite?
Mary Hopper [00:36:17] Huh?
Nick Mays [00:36:18] Was he your favorite Madam Hopper?
Mary Hopper [00:36:21] I don’t. Yeah, no, no, no. He was a round and about son. He didn’t stay up under me. He was rounding about hard headed. But he’s my baby. And he shows a lot of love and a lot of care and he always tell me God gave him to me last because he gonna be the one to take care of me.
Nick Mays [00:36:52] What did your husband do for work, in Cleveland?
Mary Hopper [00:36:54] He did construction. Big pipes. Big, big, big, big, big stuff. Some of one of the things fell on him one day. He did construction and he also did a waiter. Now he could carry that tray.
Nick Mays [00:37:20] So I want to go back to Tri C. I see you glow when you talk about Tri C in college. Do you remember what you majored in when you were at Tri C? What kind of classes?
Mary Hopper [00:37:42] Yeah, at Tri C, I took up nursing. At Tri C, I did one year at Western Campus and. But I graduated from Eastern campus and in 1975, 1975, I think I became a registered nurse. And that’s during the time I bought the house over here in East Cleveland.
Nick Mays [00:38:24] If I recall right, you graduated with two degrees from Tri C, a BA.
Mary Hopper [00:38:32] And a BS From Tri C. Probably a BA and a BS from Rock Hills. I could have gone either way to get my four year degree.
Nick Mays [00:38:49] Do you recall what made you want to be a nurse?
Mary Hopper [00:38:55] Because when I was a little girl, we had this big house and had cement pillars on each side and I would always sit on one of the pillars. And one day my uncle asked me, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I remember I was about five years old. [00:39:19] I said, I want to be a nurse. I wanted to be a nurse ever since I was five years old. And that didn’t happen until 1975. I had four children, a divorced husband, a raggedy house, a job, but God granted it.
Nick Mays [00:39:44] Madam Hopper, when did you buy your house in East Cleveland? When did you move to East Cleveland and buy your house? What year?
Mary Hopper [00:39:52] When I moved to East Cleveland, about 75, by the time I graduated from college.
Nick Mays [00:40:01] Is that when you bought your first house in East Cleveland?
Mary Hopper [00:40:03] Yeah.
Nick Mays [00:40:05] Madam Hopper, can you share the story of buying your home? In our previous conversation, there was a story behind how you bought your home and what you had to do to get it. Can you tell us that story?
Mary Hopper [00:40:22] Well, I used to work and at that time there was a real estate lady, her name was Sue Grier, but I can’t remember the name of her company. And at that time you had to give money for them to find you a place to live. And I had with her to find me a place to live. [00:40:48] So one day she finally said, I’m not going to take any more of your money because they are not going to rent to you because you have no husband and you have four children. And they were very hard about putting so many people in a certain amount of space. So at that time, I was in one bedroom and a living room, and I shared with the four kids. [00:41:18] And she said, I’m going to help you find you a house. I’m not going to take any more of your money because they’re not going to rent to you. So she said, I’m going to help you find your house. So soon after that, she called me and gave me the address, the 1830s Penrose. [00:41:41] And I didn’t care how I looked or what I had to get out of this small space with four children. Then I walked down. I walked from Lakeview. I was living off of Lakeview, walked down here to Penrose, and the house was the house. You could tell that real elderly people lived there. [00:42:03] It was. It looked old, you know, the surroundings looked old. I didn’t care how it looked or what. And so I told lady I would try to take it. She said, they’re not going to sell you a house because you don’t have a husband, and women get sick a lot and call off and don’t keep the job. [00:42:32] So she said, well, I’m going to give you a chance. I’m going to give you a chance. I’m going to help you get a house. So the mortgage person said, I got the house and I started paying my payments, paying them payments. If I didn’t eat, if I didn’t drink water, if I didn’t do whatever needed to be done, I was paying the house note. [00:42:57] And so he finally says, during this process, he said, I can’t say that about a single woman. Say you are good. Say I had an A rating when I got through with that house. Before I got through, I had a rating because the house would get paid if there was no food, no water bill, no light bill, no gas, no nothing. [00:43:18] We would have a house, have some place to live, because I felt that I wasn’t fortunate enough for someone to give me a chance to live if I didn’t have the money to pay the house note. So I paid the house note, and after that I got an A1 credit rating. He said, well, I won’t say that about a single woman anymore. [00:43:40] You know, give them a chance. Give them a chance.
Nick Mays [00:43:44] Was it anything special about the house? Was it anything special about the house.
Mary Hopper [00:43:49] A leak? You could tell it had a leak because there was many patches over it in a certain Room. And I had an elder lady that was a member of my church on Way Park. She went with me and she pointed. She said, that’s going to give you trouble. [00:44:11] I know what she’s talking about. I didn’t care. I pointed to space, you know, and that gave me trouble until not long ago, I finally found someone to really fix it. They would just go patch and patch and patch. Now, I have no leaks or anything, but I enjoy Cleveland. I met beautiful people and they were older than me and they had something to share with me about housing, about buying a house. [00:44:38] And that was a plus for me.
Nick Mays [00:44:41] Oh, that’s interesting, because I was going to ask you about the. You know, if you were to recall the neighborhood or community you moved in and how the neighbors were and where did you go to church in East Cleveland?
Mary Hopper [00:44:58] Well, the street was beautiful and a lot of teenagers. And they all went to Shaw. And Shaw had many activities. You could learn how to be a beautician. Many activities they learned when they come out of high school. They didn’t have to go to an extra school. And they had dances. They had a lot of activities. [00:45:26] Show was beautiful. And there was a lot of teenagers on my street. And at the Lakeside Baptist Church, there was a Caucasian minister. And most of the members were Caucasian. And they would have the door open, preaching on Sunday. Of course, I didn’t go when I first came because I was busy working or going to school. [00:45:54] And I didn’t go to church under him at all. But he would have the door open to get air and then have an air conditioner. A lot of young teenagers over here, and they were friendly. And right on the corner of Euclid and Lakeview was Huff Bakery. And I would stand right in front of Hough Bakery to catch the bus going downtown. [00:46:25] And on the other side was something like it is now. They get gas and apartment buildings. A beauty shop that’s going that way, then coming back this way toward Windermere. There was stores, barbershop. Ford Motor Company was on going that way. A bank, I think it was Cleveland Trust Bank. And then on the other side there was drugstore. [00:47:16] I think it was gray. Gray drugstore. And further up. You could get food. I think it was Seymour and another store. Seymour and another one. But you could get food. And they had clothing and some of everything. Hardware stuff. Oh, yeah, it was a little hardware, too. Right in front of her bakery. [00:47:46] I think right after, right before you get to Mickey’s, Mickey was there fixing cars. You could go shopping, clothing, a hardware store, a Bank was on across the street and it was just a beautiful place. Coming from Way Park, I thought it was beautiful to try to relocate in all East Cleveland.
Nick Mays [00:48:26] Sounds like a vibrant time. Vibrant, good time. Friendly. Was there friendly neighbors on your street?
Mary Hopper [00:48:35] I was working so hard and going to school so hard. I didn’t know neighbors at all. I’m telling you, I gotta. I always was headed right at the bus stop. Right at the bus stop. I was going to work, I was going to school. And the church was. The door was open at the church and I’m going to tell you I promised the Lord if he let me finish school and do whatever I was trying to do, that I would go to church and I would be faithful. [00:49:08] And I did that. And this church had my record. Wow.
Nick Mays [00:49:15] You had mentioned earlier, you said something about being at the bus stop and the bakery store. Did you ever go in there and buy donuts?
Mary Hopper [00:49:26] Every morning get to donut stand right in front of the bakery. Of course. Best steakhouse. I think it was still here. Best Steakhouse, the bank. Cleveland Trust Bank. It was a beautiful place to come. It wasn’t loud and noisy. The children were friendly teenagers and they had many activities at shore. They come at night for plays and different things. [00:50:02] So it’s a great change. Great things.
Nick Mays [00:50:09] Do you recall what hospital you worked at as a nurse and how.
Mary Hopper [00:50:15] All of them. I worked at all of them. When I first graduated, I worked at. You ever heard of Women’s Hospital? Don’t you?
Nick Mays [00:50:26] I have not.
Mary Hopper [00:50:28] Well, they tore it down. Well, I was on staff at Women’s Hospital. It was on Chester. I did some work at Mount Sinai Hospital. I went from an agency to University Hospital. I went from an agency to Charity Hospital. Then I was on staff at an agency. And wherever they send me to work, I would work beside the hospital. [00:51:08] I had gone to abortion clinics, which I didn’t like. Which I didn’t like. I did some kept in the elderly. I became supervisor. I always went as a supervisor when I went to the hospital. This hospital on Lakeshore, I mean this nurse home on Lakeshore. I can’t even think of the name. But I would never say no. [00:51:51] I love nursing and I finally got to be a nurse after wanting to be at 5 years old. It happened here in 1975 in Cleveland. I didn’t think I would ever make it. When they heard about Tri C and the boss was so nice, they let me take classes in my spare time.
Nick Mays [00:52:17] Did you ever work at University Hospital?
Mary Hopper [00:52:21] Yeah, I did from the agency in OB and then I did some private cases. Sit with. Not sit, but be with patients in the private rooms.
Nick Mays [00:52:33] Can you recall how many years you worked as a nurse and when you retired?
Mary Hopper [00:52:43] I think I retired early because I had hypertension and arthritis was eating me up, and I put in for my Social Security disability or whatever, so I retired early. It was about in the 90s.
Nick Mays [00:53:06] Okay. Were you able to enjoy life a little bit more after retirement because you said you would always be working or you was at school. And now finally in the 90s, you retired. Were you able to hang out and drink coffee in the porch a little bit more and talk to neighbors?
Mary Hopper [00:53:26] Yeah, I was able to hang out. I was in groups, political groups with women. Was a group called Action Now Nurses. All of us nurses got together and tried to fight for other nurses who was having trouble with their employer. I joined the naacp. I And another political group. I can’t think of their name.
Nick Mays [00:54:04] So you were the member of the naacp. What kind of work did you do?
Mary Hopper [00:54:11] Fine.
Nick Mays [00:54:14] What kind of work did you do with the naacp?
Mary Hopper [00:54:16] Just paid my dues.
Nick Mays [00:54:20] Just wondering if you did any marching order. You know.
Mary Hopper [00:54:25] Not too much more. I just mostly paid my dues.
Nick Mays [00:54:31] So you were civically active?
Mary Hopper [00:54:33] Very active. There were some other groups that I can’t think of right now. I think grassroots. Heard of that. I was in many. So I got a chance to be with women and other things and activities and having a good time.
Nick Mays [00:54:56] Mother Hopper, what do you think inspired that in you to be civically engaged and to help be disservice to other people? Is that something you got maybe from your grandmother, from faith. That inspired you to make you want to help other people through volunteerism?
Mary Hopper [00:55:25] Yeah. My grandmother was a kind, giving, loving, religious young lady. And when some of the people on our street would lose their husband or needed help and need someone to go to the grocery store, needed someone to scrub the kitchen, need someone to spend the night because they were friends, because her husband had passed. [00:55:58] That little girl was Mary. I would say, do you know any other little girl? Because they called on me for everything. Because there wasn’t many young girls on the street and if they were their parents, wasn’t like my grandmother about training a child to be what you call it, a missionary or whatever. [00:56:30] So anyway, if somebody needed kitchen scrubs and Mary so and so need a kitchen scrub, and you better not bring a dime back. You better not get paid for it. Somebody need help with washing, don’t bring any money back here. Whatever they need, you help them with, spend the night, wash the clothes go to the store. [00:56:51] She taught me how to be a missionary woman, how to give and how to help without. And God has surely blessed.
Nick Mays [00:57:04] Mother Hopper, you’ve been a member of Lakeside Bible Church. What was your. What role has the church, this church and faith have in your life?
Mary Hopper [00:57:24] In my life, they. They knew that I was faithful and a member of many organizations. I did the health fair scholarship fund, motherboard, vacation Bible school. They saw me working, willing to do whatever I needed to do as a member of the church. I was president of the junior Usher board, Cotton highly ushers. [00:58:08] I did vacation Bible school. I did a lot of teaching. And then they saw me faithful, they saw me working. And I have to say, I was always pleasant and willing to help and to share.
Nick Mays [00:58:36] Mother Hopper, so you moved into East Cleveland in 1975 and been in East Cleveland ever since. How did the city change over time from when you first came to now?
Mary Hopper [00:58:56] Tremendously, tremendously. There were beautiful houses on the street and now there’s so many empty lots and it was quiet, but then it got real loud and real noisy and drug infection invested. You know, there were a lot of single mothers and I think that made the children so out of hand because most of the single mothers had to work and they didn’t have no one to help them. [00:59:35] And the children got off into drugs. Many children got off into drugs. Then they couldn’t keep up their houses. The single mother could only make so much money and houses went down, the neighborhood went down. And so I’m going to say this. Instead of them trying to find resources to help them build up their house and stay here, they assumed the move. [01:00:12] You know, houses went down and some were taken from other. You know, you don’t run, you fix the problem, you know, so a lot of them just ran, just let it go and we gone and. Which was a bad idea.
Nick Mays [01:00:31] Was it hard for you to see this change or go through this change?
Mary Hopper [01:00:35] It was hard to see the change because my children had to associate with these people and I had to work and it was hard to leave every day, going to work and leaving in such environment. And as I got over.
Nick Mays [01:00:57] Mother Hopper, when everyone was moving out and the city was changing, you stayed?
Mary Hopper [01:01:04] I stayed. I stayed because it was. My church was right here. The bus stop was right across the street. There were shopping centers right down the street and banks. And, you know, I couldn’t move out too far because I never could drive. I always had something wrong with the eyes. When I was close up. [01:01:43] Next thing I ran into a car so when I first started trying to drive, I ran into a parked car and I went to court and the judge said, now don’t you stop. Said don’t you stop trying to drive. I said, judge, I stopped today. I stopped right then and there. But I didn’t know there was something wrong with my eyes and something still wrong. [01:02:08] I have glaucoma and cataract in both eyes. This one had surgery on it and this one going to reschedule. But then I didn’t try to drive no more after I had that accident, which was a handicap to me as a nurse because I had to go all over and catch buses or try to get a ride with classmates or whatever. [01:02:34] It was hard. So driving is good.
Nick Mays [01:02:42] Mother Hopper, you told me a story. There was a time where you almost sold your house, but it didn’t happen.
Mary Hopper [01:02:55] I almost sold the house. I didn’t have any help for repairs and the house was going down, down, down. So I’m too like some of the neighbors, is to get out of here and sell it and sell it. But in the meantime, I had gone to Marlon, South Carolina to take care of my uncle who raised me. [01:03:22] And I had cleaned the house out, getting it ready to be shown for sale. I had everything out from the attic to the basement, had it in storage or gave it away or whatever because I was going to sell the house. So I had a real estate in charge and he had my number in mother in South Carolina and we would communicate and he said, Ms. [01:03:46] Harper, if a man want to buy your house, he wants to rent it out, but his credit is no good. And say this particular man has tried twice and he couldn’t get it. So the Lord was looking out for me because I’m in it now and thank God there’s been some repairs done and siding on and it’s a good thing I didn’t sell it.
Nick Mays [01:04:21] Can you talk about some of the work that’s been done, the repairs?
Mary Hopper [01:04:25] Oh, yeah. My grandson is a contractor. He does work or he knows somebody who can. And he himself has put in me new floors, new floors throughout the house. He put in a furnace, new furnace. He put in a beautiful long kitchen sink. He put in new lightings. He painted all the way through on some floors. [01:05:08] There’s carpeting on the upper floors, but he put these modern floors over the old floor. And he’s done quite a bit to show me, caring for me and he love me. No, I wanted the house updated and he’s done that.
Nick Mays [01:05:33] What do you hope to see for the future of East Cleveland. What do you want to see, Mother Hopper?
Mary Hopper [01:05:46] I. I want to see East Cleveland beautiful like it was when I came. Beautiful homes, beautiful grass, beautiful flowers, beautiful trees, beautiful people. A nice place to go shopping for grocery. And I want to see more of the blacks remaining in East Cleveland to enjoy some of the upcoming plans that they have for East Cleveland. [01:06:22] Instead of giving their house away for little or nothing and moving out. That hurts real bad because they’re not getting much for it. And wherever they’re going, going to be very, very high, they’re going to be able to maintain.
Nick Mays [01:06:39] So you want to see them. You want to see East Clevelanders benefit from the development and revitalization and the changes that are taking place?
Mary Hopper [01:06:52] Yeah.
Nick Mays [01:06:56] So my, you know, one question that I have is there is revitalizations and development. We have, for example, the Cuyahoga Land bank in the area we are now, and they’re building new homes and new park and. They’re helping to put roofs and porches and people’s homes. Do you support the efforts of organizations, organizations like the Cuyahoga Land bank that’s in this community right now, redeveloping?
Mary Hopper [01:07:37] Yes, the land bank put the siding on my house, which is beautiful, like a new house.
Nick Mays [01:07:53] Finally, Mother Hopper, if you can leave one message for the younger generation about East Cleveland, what would it be? One message to the next generations. If you can leave one message, what would it be?
Mary Hopper [01:08:18] Don’t run. Stay. Don’t run from East Cleveland. Stay and help build up East Cleveland. It was once a beautiful place and it still can be. Well.
Nick Mays [01:08:37] Mother Hopper, thank you again for your time. It is my honor to sit before you and to have this conversation, one that we will preserve for history.
Mary Hopper [01:08:51] I am so happy that I have been chosen and that I could contribute and something that will stay that generations can see. I am really happy.
Nick Mays [01:09:07] We thank you for your time and God bless you.
Mary Hopper [01:09:11] Thank you. Same to you.
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