Abstract

In this 2025 interview, Dr. MaryAnn Harris recounts her journey from the Jim Crow South to a distinguished career in education, gerontology, librarianship, and civic leadership in East Cleveland. She describes migrating from Georgia to Cleveland at age eight, overcoming childhood illiteracy, and pursuing higher education at Knoxville College, Wayne State University, Nova Southeastern University, Akron University, and Kent State University. Harris reflects on her extensive professional work as a teacher, gerontology coordinator, college instructor, and longtime librarian in Cleveland and East Cleveland schools. She also discusses her decades of civic service, including roles on the East Cleveland School Board, the East Cleveland Public Library Board of Trustees, and multiple nonprofit organizations.

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Interviewee

Harris, MaryAnn (interviewee)

Interviewer

Mays, Nick (interviewer)

Project

East Cleveland

Date

11-4-2025

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

90 minutes

Transcript

Nick Mays [00:00:00] My name is Dr. Nicholas Mays, and today is November 4, 2025. We are here in East Cleveland at the East Cleveland Public Library with Dr. MaryAnn Harris, a longtime East Cleveland resident. Dr. Harris’s journey mirrors the long arc of resilience, education, and service. Dr. Harris was born in Georgia during the Jim Crow era. A time of segregation sought to limit both opportunity and imagination. Through perseverance, mentorship, and an unshakable faith and power of education, Dr. Harris transformed the early struggle into a lifetime of achievement, achieved achievement. She became a teacher, professor, librarian, civic leader, earning multiple advanced degrees, including a doctorate, and dedicating more than five decades to shaping minds and institutions across Greater Cleveland. Dr. Harris, thank you for sharing your story with the East Cleveland oral History Project. Dr. Harris can we start with introducing us to your family?

MaryAnn Harris [00:01:25] Okay. Thank you very much, Dr. Mays. My name is MaryAnn Harris, and in my family, I have two sons, Paul Harris and Justin Harris. And I have. My husband passed years ago, John W. Harris. I have two grandsons and then I have two great grandsons. So.

Nick Mays [00:02:17] You got a big family?

MaryAnn Harris [00:02:19] Well, yes, and of course, I have sisters. There’s only one sister left. There were five people, five children in my family. My sister, Shirley Johnson, she’s younger than I am.

Nick Mays [00:02:38] Well, thank you for introducing us to your family. I want to move on our first topic, which is early life and migration from the Jim Crow South. Dr. Harris, could you begin by sharing what was what life was like growing up in Georgia as a child during the Jim Crow era? What do you remember about. Specifically about family, community, and daily life in the South?

MaryAnn Harris [00:03:08] Okay, thank you very much. Well, I can tell you what I remember because I left Georgia, Moultrie, Georgia, at age 8. But during the time I was living in Georgia, my mother worked in the cotton fields and she picked cotton. And I did not attend school while I was in Georgia, I stayed home. I assumed I’ll help watch my younger siblings. My aunt, big mama Annie Mae, she also was there watching the children. But I helped her watch the children. And in the evening, she would work at the Hotel Moultrie Hotel. Basically, it was a quiet life. But on Saturdays when we attended the say, went to the picture show. That’s what it was called back then. We sat upstairs. That’s where all the people, black folks or African American folks, sat if you wanted to go to the picture show. So we sat upstairs. Sometimes my brothers would throw popcorn downstairs, but I didn’t do that. I ate my. And that was about. Wasn’t a hard life, but it wasn’t an easy life either. We went to church in the evenings. My aunt was real big on going to church. Big Mama Annie Mae, she was really my aunt, but we called her Big Mama Auntie Mae. And so from there, we decided, or my mother decided, that it was time to leave Georgia for better situation, better living. And we left. My aunt and uncle that lived in Cleveland, Ohio, came down and we all drove back in one car. I don’t know how we all fit in that car. It was a Chevrolet. I’m not sure what kind of. But we drove back to Cleveland, Ohio, and Big Mama Annie Mae said, y’ all gonna get the same thing up there. I ain’t moving. I’m not going. Because, you see, down here, we know how the people feel. But up there, they gonna smile in your face and say, oh, yeah, and turn around and stab you in the back. Big Mama Annie made all. Always spoke her mind. And my mother said I took after Big Mama Annie Mae. So we came Cleveland for better life. And I’m happy that I came, because with my big mouth, I don’t think I would have made it in Moultrie, Georgia, not back at that time.

Nick Mays [00:06:32] Why do you say that?

MaryAnn Harris [00:06:34] Well, I’m always. It seems like my mama said she get people riled up, but they can’t find her. So where’s Mae-Ann? They call me Mae-Ann. Where’s Mae-Ann? Oh, she went to the restroom. I would get up and make comments about we shouldn’t do this and we shouldn’t do that; and we were at the church, but I would turn around and leave, and everybody’s all riled up about it, but I wasn’t there. And that’s something that I think it’s just a part of what I do to get people to see that they need to speak for themselves. I’m not going to go around speaking for you, but I will give you my piece. But after I’ve done that, I’m going on away and let them do what they do. So.

Nick Mays [00:07:36] Of course, this is a young girl. So is it fair to say in your own way, you were already protesting injustices and Jim Crow as a little girl?

MaryAnn Harris [00:07:46] Oh, absolutely. That’s why I said I would not make it. And I’m happy that I came to Cleveland.

Nick Mays [00:07:55] And you earlier, you had said that you would go to the picture show. You called it.

MaryAnn Harris [00:07:59] Yeah, the picture show.

Nick Mays [00:08:00] And you have to sit upstairs. Is that why. Why did you have to sit upstairs?

MaryAnn Harris [00:08:05] Because all the black people. We didn’t sit downstairs. The white people sat downstairs and the black people sat upstairs. And that’s the way it was. There was a big sign that said black people or Negroes. It just said black. Said Negroes upstairs. And that was it. Now, I don’t remember seeing a sign that said white downstairs, but there was a sign posted when you walked in: Negroes upstairs.

Nick Mays [00:08:42] What about parks? Do you remember maybe going to segregated parks or bathrooms and things like that?

MaryAnn Harris [00:08:47] Well, there was on the water fountains. I remember that we were at that theater and that they had this water fountain, way somewhere. Looked like it wasn’t. I never drank out that water fountain. It said, the lady said, y’ all have to drink the water over here. I said, oh, I don’t want to eat water. I would sneak a pop in. That’s what I would do.

Nick Mays [00:09:20] So at the age of eight, you and your family migrated to Cleveland. Who did you come to Cleveland with?

MaryAnn Harris [00:09:34] My aunt and uncle. My uncle worked at Chevrolet, and my aunt, they didn’t have any children, so they made a place for us in their home. We lived at 582 East 105th Street. I was in the Glenville area. I’ll never forget the address. And we lived with them for many years until we were able to get our own apartment in that complex. And we moved in another apartment in that whole complex.

Nick Mays [00:10:16] And I apologize, Dr. Harris. I want to be clear who made the trip.

MaryAnn Harris [00:10:21] Oh, I’m sorry. Well, Geraldine. Geraldine shepherd was my aunt’s name. David shepherd was her husband. And that trip was Mary Ola Brooks. That’s my mother. That was my mother. Shirley Johnson. Shirley Brooks. I’m sorry. Sylvia Brooks. Paul Brooks, that was a brother. And James Brooks, that was my oldest brother.

Nick Mays [00:11:03] So let’s pivot then. Let’s talk about life in Cleveland, Your childhood, teenage years, schools you attended.

MaryAnn Harris [00:11:15] Okay. In Cleveland, by us living in the Glenville area on 105th Street. The school in that area was Oliver Wendell Holmes, the elementary school. So we all were enrolled at Oliver Wendell Holmes Elementary School. And that was on 105th street somewhere. Right now, the location, I think is called the east side Market. It was in that location right there because across the street from there was Station H Park post office. And of course, the post office is still there. We enrolled. I was placed in the third grade because they thought I should be in third grade because I was eight and I was real tall. But I couldn’t read. And each day I volunteered to wash the boards because the teacher would, like, give me a quarter or something like that for washing boards. And I was always like a person that like to save money. I guess you could call it an entrepreneurship little business I had going. So we. She found out I couldn’t read because she would ask me to read what was on the board every day after school. But in class I act like I could read because I would look at the pictures and from the pictures I would read what the pictures, what I thought they said. And those were Dick and Jane books back in that in the day. So from her washing and observing me and caring, I end up learning to read. But I, like, couldn’t read. And so I never really learned phonics, but I learned to read, and I’m happy that I did. And from that experience, I learned that reading is the most important thing. And she would help me with words and make. Always was pretty good at making up stories. I could add to the story or make the ending come out the way I wanted it to come out. So that was a good experience in elementary school and from junior elementary school. While I was in elementary school, there were some white children in our class. And I remember Gilbert, his mother would always. Every time he had a birthday, she would bring a cupcake and a coup. A little ice cream for everybody. And so we always would say, “when’s your birthday, Gilbert?” And so it was really a lot of fun there. But also. So I think I’d like to mention that during the time there were children that we called them sight-saver children. They wore these real thick glasses, and they would get a ride to school in the morning, I guess in a van. But in the evening, they would have to take the bus on their own. But they couldn’t take the bus. I was probably about in the fifth grade then people who wanted. They said, who want to volunteer to take the children home? You could get a free pass, plus you get $5 a week. So I would. I volunteered to do that. And I would take these little children home every day. We would ride the bus. And back then, the bus, I’m not sure, was called CTS Cleveland Transit System. And the bus was yellow and brown. No, it was like beige and brown. And we would catch the bus, take them home, and then come back on the bus to where we live. And so that was my little introduction to learning how to make money. And I thought that was a good experience for me. I know it was that way. I learned about the buses and transportation in different parts of the city. In junior high school I was at, let’s see, they moved the school, Something that happened and we had to go to an extension school. And it was on Inglewood. Inglewood is still around today, the street is. But we went there. And from Inglewood Elementary School there was a teacher named Ms. Walker. I remember her name. She would always seem like I always got picked to do the work or either I volunteer. She wanted somebody help clean the room up, sweep the room after school. But I said, why these people always choosing me? Or why am I always the one that’s looking for the extra work? Well, again, I was able to make some money, like $5 a week. And I put my money in a little can and keep it. And when my brothers, they were looking for, oh, I want this, I want that, I would loan them money, but I would get interest back on my money. So that’s how that worked with me in junior. Well, I was still in elementary school. I went to Empire Elementary School. My favorite teacher there was Mr. Jones. He was a science teacher. He lived on Kempton Avenue and from Empire transferred over to Patrick Henry. And that’s where it got really live. By the ninth grade, we were supposed to choose whether we wanted to go to John Hay or Glenville. John Hay was more like a career focused school where you would go into typing and some other customer service. And Glenville, if you went there, they said, oh, well, that’s a college, a college prep school. And then Mr. Gross, he said, oh, you going to Glenville because you can type? I said, I can’t type. I hate typing. I pack. But you’re going to Glenville. And I said, no, I’m not. And I got my aunt to come up to the school and we made it the decision that I was going to Glenville. So I went to Glenville High School. I always stood up for myself because I figured if I didn’t stand up for myself, nobody else would. And so I went to Glenville High School. And there I joined the gym leaders and the student council. And I think that was it. But I enjoyed my days at Glenville as a high school student and I got the opportunity to run track at Glenville. I ran the 100 yard dash. And I thought I was going to college and win this track and be in the track scholarship and go to the Olympics. That was my goal back then. Like Wilma Rudolph. Well, I didn’t get that scholarship. They gave one scholarship. It was this physical education group association, Ms. Babbitt. The Babbitt Road in East, in Cleveland, in Euclid, that’s, that’s named from after her family. There was this lady named Ms. Babbitt, and she was in charge of physical education for Cleveland public schools. And she worked in the main office. And she came out and told us about a scholarship that they were given to a senior high. But Eleanor Montgomery, she received the scholarship. She did go to the Olympics, and she threw the shot put in the Olympics. Since I didn’t get the scholarship, I couldn’t go to Tennessee State University. That’s where it was. The scholarship was directly there. Because if you went, went to Tennessee State back in that day, you was guaranteed, if you really worked at it, to go to the Olympics, because that was the school. Well, I ended up in Knoxville, Tennessee. I received the academic scholarship there and I stayed. I got to Knoxville. Mr. Bale, his name was Julian Bale, majored in health and Physical education. And he said, daughter, just listen to me. You ain’t got to go to Tennessee, down there to Nashville to want to be a part of. Leave our school. Stay here. I’m going to get you in some programs. And so he did. He looked out for me, Mr. Bell. He called me daughter all the time. And from Mr. Bell’s caring about me, I was able to graduate from Knoxville College and I worked for a year after I graduated from Knoxville College.

Nick Mays [00:21:04] Can I just get a clarification question. You graduated from Knoxville College, which is at HBCU.

MaryAnn Harris [00:21:12] HBCU.

Nick Mays [00:21:14] What was your degree in?

MaryAnn Harris [00:21:15] My degree was Health and Physical Education.

Nick Mays [00:21:20] Can I ask you about your experience at Knoxville?

MaryAnn Harris [00:21:24] Oh, I left out the best part at Knoxville College. It was the best place ever. I participated in a library club there, and I participated in what they call a Student Leaders Club, which was a part of like the Health and Physical Education Division. But the most important part, I participated. I was selected or I applied to become a member of I guess a sorority because sororities and fraternities was really big. And I was accepted as a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated. It was the best experience because from that experience I was able to travel throughout Tennessee to visit other colleges and do community service for the elderly. And that’s how I ended up going to Wayne State University after I graduated, eventually I worked for a year in Cleveland.

Nick Mays [00:22:39] And we’re going to get to that, I promise. But I wanted to ask what inspired you to go to a HBCU. And if not, what inspired you? Now that you think about it, you look back, what did attending at HBCU mean to you?

MaryAnn Harris [00:22:57] Well, what if really inspired me at the time was I received that academic scholarship because I didn’t have any money and I had good grades and I did well on my test. And this, the counselor said, if you go to Knoxville College, you’re going to learn about the world and meet different people and different experiences. And by me, I was kind of hesitant at first because I was born in Georgia. And I said, I don’t know if I want to go back down south because those, by now, those people, I may get in some trouble joining different groups. So it didn’t happen. I didn’t get in trouble. I stayed at Knoxville College and participated in activities. And I was happy that I went to HBCU because all the people that I met, some of them, I’m still in contact with them today, and they provided an experience for us that I don’t think I never would have been exposed to different, I guess, people in the community. They would have different folks come to the campus, different groups and speak. But ironically, something did happen there. It was April 4, 1968. I’ll never forget it. Dr. Martin Luther King, we heard about the shooting down Nashville. Well, what happened, it was somehow, we don’t know. They said a cab driver, a white cab driver got killed somewhere near our campus and they were there. I said they, the police questioning everybody. And the school ended up closing for about like three weeks. Because it was just, I don’t know. I didn’t understand it. But I didn’t come back to Cleveland. I stayed with someone in Knoxville because I didn’t have any money to come back to Cleveland, then turn around and go back. And that was one bad experience that I had.

Nick Mays [00:25:31] You did graduate from Knoxville College. What year did you.

MaryAnn Harris [00:25:38] I graduated from Knoxville College in 1969, because I’ll never forget it.

Nick Mays [00:25:53] So you came back home, you worked for a year, but then you went to graduate school. And so you earned multiple advanced degrees and worked across higher education and public schools. Could you talk about what degrees you’ve earned?

MaryAnn Harris [00:26:16] Well, I worked for a year in Cleveland. After I graduated from Knoxville College, I worked at Harry Davis as a physical education teacher. And during that time, I was still corresponding with Mr. Julian Bell. He was the physical education teacher, head of physical education, Knoxville College. And he had told me about this grant that I Could get to work with the elderly because that was a part of, like, my training in physical education. We had to do, like, internships, and I did student teaching also at Austin High School there in Knoxville. But I also did work at the community center helping the elderly out and getting them to do exercises and games and things like that. And I actually got paid for that. But Mr. Bell helped me get a or made me aware of this scholarship from the U.S. Department of Aging grant. And it was only at different schools in the United States. And it happened. He wrote me and told me that there was one at Wayne State. And he always said, daughter, you gonna go to one of them big schools sooner or later, you gonna get your chance. And I did. I received the money to go to Wayne State University, and it was in the area of gerontology. So I graduated a year and a half from Wayne State University with a major in gerontology. And that’s the study of aging, working with the elderly and those approaches program there. For Wayne State, you did certain classes. And at the University of Michigan, they offered certain classes. So it was an institute. The certification came from University of Michigan and the graduate degree came from Wayne State. The program took a year and a half, and they paid for housing. I got a check every month. So it was a good experience for me. And at the end of that experience, I had a master’s degree. So I came back to Cleveland, worked for Case Western Reserve, worked for Fair Hill Mental Health Center. And finally I believe I started working for Cleveland and I got. Finally, I got married. So I stayed home a long time. And then I ended up working for Cuyahoga Community College part time. And from there, where did I go? I actually end up going back to school. While I was working at Cuyahoga Community College. No, I went back into Cleveland schools. I’ve had a long history, history of going this way and that way with working. So I went back to work in Cleveland schools, and from there I went to University of Akron. And at the University of Akron, I was able to get a master’s in health. It wasn’t health and physical education, it was administration. And I got a certification in libraries. Not library science in. Yeah, and working in the library.

[00:30:10] That’s what they called it, the media specialist certification. So from there I worked in Cleveland schools, stayed around, still worked at Tri C part time. And at Tri C, I got involved in a class. What did I do? They had a program. I’m sorry, there was a program called. I forget what the program was Called. But it was at that time Tri-C [Cuyahoga Community College] was trying to get their 20% doctoral cohort. It was a cohort and it was with Nova University. Now it’s called Nova Scotia Southeastern University. And they only let the full time faculty in the program. But by me being part time and I was always searching and going to different activities, I expressed an interest and I helped develop the mental health gerontology program at Cuyahoga Community College. So I was able. Don Hoyt who was in charge of the program, the mental health division at the time, he helped me get in the TRI C program. And from there I was able to work with the. Take the classes. We took classes off campus. The professors from NOVA Southeastern would come to Cleveland and we would have the classes at Cuyahoga Community College. There were people from other colleges involved in that program also around. And finally the program people kept dropping out. Out of that whole cohort. I think Tri C had about 15. Some people dropped out or they changed and went to another university where it wasn’t a cohort. We ended up going to Philadelphia to finish the cohort.

[00:32:22] It was four of us. MaryAnn Harris, Sue, Sammy Cox. I forget Sue’s last name. But we finished that Nova Southeastern course program.

Nick Mays [00:32:38] And that was a doctorate cohort.

MaryAnn Harris [00:32:39] And that was a doctorate cohort. Yes, it was.

Nick Mays [00:32:41] When did you finish the [program].

MaryAnn Harris [00:32:43] I finished that and I graduated. Now, I started it in around 1979. I think I finished it in 1987. Reason why I know I have a picture. We went during the summers. We had to go south anyway and stay at the university like for a month. And my family, we would travel down there; my two sons and my husband, we would drive and we’d stay in Fort Lauderdale. So I finished. Sorry I didn’t bring a picture, but I finished that 1987 which we drove down and I got a picture shaking the professor’s hand.

Nick Mays [00:33:38] Wow, that’s impressive. So you, you brought us up to working part time for TRI-C and earning your doctorates. Let’s continue on.

MaryAnn Harris [00:33:53] Yeah.

Nick Mays [00:33:53] So what’s the next step in your journey?

MaryAnn Harris [00:33:58] So I have Wayne State University of Akron, Nova Southeastern. OH when I came back and I was working for Cleveland schools and in 2009 I transferred over to East Cleveland schools because they needed a media specialist. And the superintendent there, Myrna Loy Corley; she reached out to me. I was no longer a member of the board so I could work for East Cleveland School. So I left there because my husband was ill anyway and it would take me five minutes to get to work or to get home or anything like that, because I live right East Cleveland.

Nick Mays [00:34:46] Dr. Harris, before how long had you worked for the Cleveland public schools as a librarian? Before you went to East Cleveland?

MaryAnn Harris [00:34:56] Okay, before I went, I started working for Cleveland schools as a librarian, and I’ve been working for them all the time. So I guess I worked for Cleveland schools about 15 years, and then I moved over to East Cleveland in 2019. I mean, 2009. And while I was in East Cleveland, I started taking classes. Always wanted my certification as a public librarian. I started taking classes at Kent State University in the School of Information Science and then from Cleveland schools. From that point, I think it took me about five years, four years and a half to get a master’s degree in information and Library science from Kent State, because every time I would change over, I would have a different desire to achieve this, whatever, because I always admired the people to work in the public library of Nixon. But you’re going to really need, if you really want to work in this area, need a library science degree. And that’s why I went to library science school at Kent State, and I finished up.

Nick Mays [00:36:21] In what year did you get that master’s?

MaryAnn Harris [00:36:25] I think I got that master’s in 2021. That’s when I finally got it, because I would take a class here and a class there. I believe it was. I can finish it in 2021. It was right during the. Around the time of the pandemic, and that’s the time that I ended up. I worked from Cleveland, starting East Cleveland Schools in 2009, and finished up right around the same time that I retired and left during the pandemic that I received that degree.

Nick Mays [00:37:15] So in 2009, Dr. Harris, you. You pivot from working as a librarian for the Cleveland public schools to East Cleveland public school schools. In 2021, you get your third masters.

MaryAnn Harris [00:37:31] Yes, I did.

Nick Mays [00:37:32] I think it’s one of the masters that you didn’t talk about. That was the Akron.

MaryAnn Harris [00:37:36] The Akron University, Yeah.

Nick Mays [00:37:38] You had gotten a master’s from Akan University. What was your. Your degree in?

MaryAnn Harris [00:37:44] At Akron? I believe I received that master’s in 1990, maybe 1992. I think I received it. That master’s was in school administration, and I got the certification there in the library. Library media. You know, it’s interesting how I. I just Took a extra class. Like you take 15 credits? Well, or you could take 17 credits extra classes. I always took extra classes just because I wanted to. So I took a class in children’s literature and this professor said, oh, we’re getting ready to cut the library program, but I have money for one student if you would like to get your certification in the library. I said, oh, that’s great. And that’s how I got into a certification program at University of Akron. And when I graduated from there, I had my library media certification for the state of Ohio and I had my school administration and I took the test from the state and pass both of them.

Nick Mays [00:39:11] Very impressive. You have a doctorate and three masters. So how, how long, how many years did you work as a full time or even part time librarian for both the Cleveland public schools and East Cleveland public schools?

MaryAnn Harris [00:39:29] Probably 20 or 22 [years].

Nick Mays [00:39:31] How long did you work for the Cleveland public school schools as a librarian?

MaryAnn Harris [00:39:37] From probably at least 10 years or 12, because I took a break in between and I stayed home with my sons. So that’s why I say it was probably about 12.

Nick Mays [00:39:58] And then you started in the East Public schools in 2009. I want, I want to unpack that a little bit, maybe ask you what was it about being a librarian in schools. What did you enjoy about it?

MaryAnn Harris [00:40:13] Well, the, whether the children. I worked the Pre K through 12, so I work with the preschools as well as 12th graders in the actual library. Well, what I like about it is it gives the children or the students the freedom to learn at their own rate. It’s not like the regular classroom. It’s like an open classroom where some students could be maybe listening to the books on tape or some students may be over there talking in a discussion about the books. I like the variety of letting the children learn at the rate or way or in the way that they want to learn. Not like being in the classroom where they all had to turn the page at the same time. No, you turn the page when you’re ready to turn it, or you all, you can act out whatever you’re doing. So that’s what I like about the library. It provides an opportunity for children to explore things from a different perspective and they don’t have to worry about keeping up with anybody and they’re able to sit and talk about it and discuss different issues. For example, at Shaw High School, I would always take the students to the City Club. We would get the questions before, beforehand look and see what the program was that would benefit the children so they would look, those discuss that before they went, a group always had about 12 students that would go and they get permission to go from the school. But it got to the point where they wanted to cut the budget and we couldn’t get transportation. So I got someone to provide transportation or pay for transportation. And we had transportation coming to pick us up near the end of the years. But I did that so the children could. The students could see what other children thought about different aspects of the community. And some of those children, I see them now; and they said, oh, well, boy, we love that. Have lots of pictures. And the Poetry Out Loud. They were involved in Poetry Out Loud. Some went to Columbus. We were right down here in East Cleveland on this stage where they did their poetry out loud. And that was interesting.

Nick Mays [00:42:57] So you were programming, you were developing programs and mentoring too, in East Cleveland?

MaryAnn Harris [00:43:04] In community, Yes, and getting them. We had community discussions. I would bring people in from the community for different community issues with the students. In fact, while I served worked for East Cleveland, I served as a school board. No, I worked for Cleveland, while I worked.

Nick Mays [00:43:24] You were on the school board for East Cleveland.

MaryAnn Harris [00:43:26] School Board in East Cleveland. And I would have different community people come in and talk about different issues.

Nick Mays [00:43:34] And we’re gonna, we’re gonna talk about that. What. How did your work in the East Cleveland public schools as a librarian differ than when Cleveland?

MaryAnn Harris [00:43:46] Yeah, well, actually, the difference. Well, in Cleveland schools, I worked the elementary and I worked the middle and I worked the high school. The teachers would always bring classes. The teachers would always bring their classes to the library. And I would be the person who just took the class and teacher was say, like on a planning period or something like that. And East Cleveland is. It didn’t work like that. They brought the children who came to the library, they came because they wanted to research a topic or the teachers brought them at will. It wasn’t like, I’m a fill in. So I was able to give them more of an opportunity to expand their horizon. Whereas at the time in Cleveland, it was where they were just coming to the library. But we would always have fun activities because I would. For Black History Month, I would have them start practicing ahead of time so that they could have a show or a performance. So always in Cleveland schools, the schools I worked at, we always did the black history program because with all the children in the different classes, I would present the different cultural aspect. And those who wanted to participate would come after school or before school, and we would work on their black history program. Same thing with the Kwanzaa Program, we would do that. I found a way to introduce them to different perspectives rather than just being in the library researching for a book report or whatever. Because during the class time you only had so much time. But the ones that were truly interested, they came extra times at all the schools.

Nick Mays [00:46:03] How long did you work at Shaw?

MaryAnn Harris [00:46:04] I worked at Shaw from 2009 to 2021, I believe it was.

Nick Mays [00:46:16] So your entire tenure as a librarian in East Cleveland?

MaryAnn Harris [00:46:19] Yeah, I worked Shaw High School, but in the evenings or after school, they didn’t have any librarians. That was the last librarian in East Cleveland schools. I would go to the elementary schools at a different contract, a third party contract. I would go to the elementary schools and organize the libraries. Whatever request or things that the teachers needed, they would leave it for me, send it to me by email or whatever, and I would make sure that they have had the materials that we’re looking for.

Nick Mays [00:47:02] Dr. Harris, as you know, they have the Shaw Reunion every year and, and majority of my videos. Oral history interviews. Folks are very passionate about Shaw. What, what do you think? Why do you think Shaw just has that impact and so significant?

MaryAnn Harris [00:47:27] Well, in terms of Shaw High School, everybody, I think it’s the people during the times that they’re in the schools because they all work, like together as well, while I was there. Or you got the athletic department, you may have the hospitality department, department, English, all of them. People come together and they work more together as a family. We did. And I think people remember their experiences that you touched to be able to explore whatever it is, you hate to say it, whatever you want to explore. Because we have people like when I was a school board member, we had children that would come to the library and they just decided they wanted to stay in the library the whole day. They didn’t want to go to class. Okay, so what am I to do with these children and those who did that? They may be out here now. We have a couple people became doctors from Shaw High School that I personally remember. One of them is. Well, two. They’re working right here in the Cleveland Area University Hospital. One’s a dermatologist, the other one’s a pediatrician. I personally know them. The woods daughter and Earl, Ed Durden’s daughter. I forget their names, but they became doctors from Shaw High School. So you have the, I guess a variety of people that get in there and they’re able to flourish and breathe and be free to learn and do it. And they all get together, come together, and some hot rallies going on. You have to come to.

Nick Mays [00:49:33] I attended this year, attended the Shaw reunion.

MaryAnn Harris [00:49:37] Great.

Nick Mays [00:49:37] It was phenomenal. I went on Sunday. I spent a couple hours there. So I was able to hang out and talk to people and do observation. And so I. I’ve. And I’ve expressed this multiple times that I never seen anything like that. So that’s interesting. I want to pivot now to a new topic.

MaryAnn Harris [00:49:57] Okay.

Nick Mays [00:50:01] So you first moved to East Cleveland in the early 1970s. What brought you to move and live in East Cleveland?

MaryAnn Harris [00:50:13] Well, that’s a long story. I was selling real estate at the time. I always had two or three jobs. I was a real estate salesperson, and I was looking for a house for this lady, and I ended up finding this house on 143rd Street. But the house was locked, of course. The window in the back was kind of like a little open. And at that time, I got the trash can and put my son up on. My oldest son, he climbed up there. He liked to climb. And he pushed the window open, and I said, go in and see if you could open the door. And he got in there and he. He turned the knob and opened the side door. And we looked at the house, and I said, oh, I think I’ll get this house. And that’s what got me to East Cleveland. We. I found a good deal on the house is on the veterans list.

Nick Mays [00:51:22] What. What was the.

MaryAnn Harris [00:51:24] It was funny.

Nick Mays [00:51:25] I remember doing stuff like that when I was young, but in our own home. When my mom would, you know, lock herself out to put us through one of the windows. So I remember that. Can you describe East Cleveland in the 1970s? The community. What was East Cleveland like in those days?

MaryAnn Harris [00:51:51] Oh, back then, we had the different. I was always kind of, like, involved in politics, but not really. We had Willie Pace, Edith Head, Mae Stewart. Those were council people. The Davis, he was the mayor. He stayed mayor for a long time. So Pittman. He was actually the first mayor because I actually ran in that race as a candidate for mayor. That was in 1987. East Cleveland went from the city commissioner from the city manager to the mayor. Mayoral form of government. And that was really kind of hot topics back then. We had forms down here in the library. So. And people were more involved. More people were here. People would knock on. During the time I worked with Cleveland. East Cleveland schools, the teachers, in order to get the children to pass the proficiency test, we would go out and knock on doors with the parents and urge them to send their children, help them to tutoring and to study and whatnot. And we would have these big cookouts at the park to get everybody out for that proficiency test. So back then it seemed like more people worked together.

Nick Mays [00:53:36] And I guess what I’m thinking is the socio economic realities because at some point there’s a decline in East Cleveland.

MaryAnn Harris [00:53:45] Yes.

Nick Mays [00:53:45] But 70s and 80s. What is East Cleveland?

MaryAnn Harris [00:53:48] Oh, people were working, people had jobs, they kept the property up. And it seems like it was flourishing. And then suddenly, or not suddenly because it didn’t happen suddenly, over a period of time, dumps came. People got more, I guess divided with each. And I don’t want to say people became less interested in the community, but I, I believe they did. And folks started cutting deals here and cutting deals and it started bringing the community down.

Nick Mays [00:54:36] Because people say especially 70s and 80s, it was more thriving. You had businesses. Do you remember that?

MaryAnn Harris [00:54:46] Yes, that dynamic Kings. Okay, Kings, he had shoes. King Shoes was down at the Euclid Superior Shopping Center. There was over off of Hayden Hot Sauce Williams. And people were. Would travel for miles around to get the barbecue from Hot Sauce Williams. Down below East Cleveland or right between East Cleveland and Cleveland. After you go under the bridge down Shaw Avenue. There was Shaw Dairy, there was Charlie Beards who had the Bill’s records. And a whole lot was going on. People were coming together. Burger King’s was here, the Pizza Hut. It was thriving. Yeah, the supermarket. We had people who really worked out in the community to try and make it thrive. And then gradually, I guess people moved on.

Nick Mays [00:56:00] When do you say the decline begins? Is that probably the 90s, late 80s?

MaryAnn Harris [00:56:06] No, I think it. What was. It was the 90s. It started in the late 90s. That’s my thinking. And people started. They were it just one building after another. Houses started on this street like my old street. Now I wouldn’t know the street had I not walked that street in that community is right behind Chambers Elementary School where the street is divided 143rd street into three. Three different parts. I lived in the middle section, that whole first part behind Chambers on 143rd off of L. No houses, they all gone. Middle section. There’s still some houses. In fact the neighbor, I won’t mention the man’s name, but he lived across the street. He got my house torn down because it was empty and the neighbor’s house torn down because he wanted to make sure that street stayed up and he kept his property up all the time. In fact, I actually gave. Paid the taxes, gave my house to one of the teacher assistants with taxes paid, and they ended up just letting the house go. And I actually paid those taxes. And people said, why you going to pay the taxes? I said, because I don’t want to give the person the house with them having to pay tax burdens and stuff. So I paid the taxes. And that whole street and down on the third end, which is near it goes out to 143rd and Woolworth. There’s a Cleveland school there. I can’t think of the name of it. It’s a boys. Our Boys Academy now. But that part of the street is still thriving.

Nick Mays [00:58:14] How long did you live in East Cleveland? Do you still live in East Cleveland today?

MaryAnn Harris [00:58:18] I still live in East Cleveland actually. I just got here by choice, by accident. And it’s so convenient because if I want to take the rapid. I can walk down the hill or the. But there’s a bus now. The 35 runs. I live on Leave Lee Boulevard. So the bus runs. It started about three, four years ago. that was. Started running.

Nick Mays [00:58:47] So is it safe to say that you moved in to East Cleveland in the 70s and you’ve been here ever since?

MaryAnn Harris [00:58:53] Yes, it is safe to say that. [19]73.

Nick Mays [00:58:58] So, 1973. So despite the decline. Despite evolution, you decided to stay in East Cleveland for more than 50 years?

MaryAnn Harris [00:59:14] Yes.

Nick Mays [00:59:14] Have you thought about why?

MaryAnn Harris [00:59:17] Well, East Cleveland is a small community. You can get involved in the local politics, you can explore the community. We have the park. I live right across from the park and I love the park and it’s close to everything. So I like the way the whole city is situated. What I don’t like is how people the way it’s run because the city should be at a different level than it is now. So.

Nick Mays [00:59:59] Dr. Harris, I want to talk about some of your impressive civic leadership and service. You serve more than 20 years on the East Cleveland school board. Can you tell us a little bit about.

MaryAnn Harris [01:00:20] Actually, it was 24 years. I served on the school board from 1979 to 2004. And how did I get on the school board? Like I said, I live behind Chambers Elementary School. My street lived 143rd dead end in the chambers. The school board was always debating. I would tend to school board meetings because I wanted to see what was going on. So that’s why I would attend school board meetings. They said we gonna tear down Shaw Stadium. I said, now, if y’ all tear down Shaw Stadium, what are you going to. What will be there? Are you going to put another stadium there? Build another stadium? It’s always something we gotta think about. Because I actually went to the school, school board meeting and ask that question. And that’s what pushed me to run for the school board. They wanted to tear down Shaw Stadium and we just made improvements on. They hadn’t ever made any improvements on it, but now it’s a different stadium than what’s over there now versus back then. But that was the only stadium the children had. And by me being actively involved into the athletic field, I wanted to make sure that we kept that stadium. And that’s why I joined that school board, got a petition and got people to sign it so that I said they not going to tear this stadium down. And everybody, I would go knock on their door to get to sign my petition. Why you running? I said, because they said they going to tear that stadium down. I’ve been going to those school board meetings, and I did. Back then, the school board meetings started at 8 o’ clock at night. The reason why I know I would.

[01:02:20] I was attending school at Akron University of Akron and we would have like a 5 o’ clock class to 7. I would leave out of that class on Mondays and we met on Mondays. Every second Monday, the school board met and make it back. I’ll be walking in the door. Exactly around the time they were getting ready to call a meeting to order. And at that time, Mr. Gillum was on the school board. Jonathan Booker was on the school board. Teresa Tucker was on the school board. And those are all former school boards board members. But at that particular time they were on the school board. When I was on the school board and I replaced the only non African American on that board. And since then it’s been. Well, no, Dr. Bohovac got on later. She was on there for a while, but otherwise realized that school board had been all African American for a long time.

Nick Mays [01:03:33] When do you, when did you run? When was your first campaign and what inspired you?

MaryAnn Harris [01:03:38] In 1979. I ran in 1979 and took the office, the oath office in 80. So that’s. That was my time too. I was elected six times. Was it? Yeah, six times. Because each term is four years.

Nick Mays [01:04:02] What would you say was your biggest accomplishment on the school board?

MaryAnn Harris [01:04:11] Serving as an advocate. Because I’ve served it. I would attend national meetings. They knew me always speaking about the school Board schools, the state level. At the state level in Ohio. It’s big difference now, but I had received what you call the Ohio School Boards Achievement Award. And at that time it was about 3,000 members, over about almost 4,000 members in the state school boards. And only 13 people received that award. And we were divided up in regions. I was in the Northeast region. I received that award. I received an advocacy award in 97 from the school board, State school board, Ohio School Board Association. I served. I was really active in this region back then. I served as a regional, northeast regional president. I was on their board of directors, but I never became the Ohio president. We’ve had three African American Ohio school board presidents and Lindo Mobian, she’s in Akron now. She’s on the city council there. Kathleen, I forget Kathleen’s last name, but she’s now state rep in Cincinnati. She’s from Cincinnati. And the other girl was from Flemings. Flemings was her name. I forget her last name. But we had very old. When Cleveland had an appointed school board, they did have a. I can’t think of his name. One of the school board members. They actually got involved because Cleveland never worked with Ohio School Boards Association. So they actually did have a African American male state president.He was one. I can’t think of this name.

Nick Mays [01:06:30] What role did the East Cleveland school board have with respect to the new Shaw? Were you. Was that during your tenure, New Shaw?

MaryAnn Harris [01:06:43] With the new Shaw High School? It started way back in, before I got off that board; planning for the new schools. Because if you go in Shaw High School, you’ll see that there my name is on that list with some of those new members that when that school opened up; they have like a big plaque on the first floor in Shaw High School. And we planned and worked for years before that came to be. It probably took 10 years before, through all the planning, year after year to get all of the money from the state and whatnot. But one thing I didn’t like was we didn’t have an auditorium. That’s what really, what I really liked at that old Shaw High School was the auditorium. It was beautiful. And I kept saying we should build around this and keep this auditorium. Because, see, the state said no auditoriums. And in East Cleveland, a Levy has. Oh, I can’t remember when the last time a Levy was passed in the East Cleveland City School. But that’s the only regret that I disliked about the shot. I love that auditorium. It was beautiful.

Nick Mays [01:08:16] Why did they say no Auditorium.

MaryAnn Harris [01:08:18] They were cutting costs money, extra money and used the cafeteria as auditorium. That’s what they call it, auditorium.

Nick Mays [01:08:28] So you’re, you’re currently on the East Cleveland Public Library Board of trustees. Talk about your service and your work.

MaryAnn Harris [01:08:36] Well, the school board approved members to the East Cleveland Library Board of Trustees and the Trustees term is seven years. This is my seventh year. I was appointed into 2018 and this is my seventh and final year. And what we do is we work to have the library provide service, help provide services like the eyes for the community, help set policy and try and get more people from the community into the library and working with the schools more. So it’s been an exciting time. But as they say, every good thing must come to an end. I think it’s time I served on the school board 24 years. Served on the library board for seven years. As they say. I would always tell the children I would take them to meetings and try and encourage them to visit and get involved in their community.

[01:09:49] It’s time to pass on the torch and get someone else. Give others a chance to serve and get involved in the community. Because I think when people are involved in their community, they spread the word and builds community. You can’t just keep things the same because things are constantly changing. So I feel good about increasing the library has come a long way since I was on this seven year period because when I came in, the other person who had the. Who I replaced, they didn’t want to get off the library board. But I said, well it comes a time when we need new ideas and don’t get stuck on. It’s only your ideas push it out there. And a lot of times people don’t think about the library. But we’ve increased the community programs, involvement with the community. It’s from the time I got on to now, it’s. It done turned the circle I don’t know how many times. And I said I’m sorry to leave but I’m leaving at a good time and passing the on because someone else we’re trying to bring in new blood. At least that’s my thinking to get more people involved and especially the people, younger folks in the community, they got to get involved in order for the community to thrive. And it’s not going to thrive if people are not living here that have jobs. I can see all my students on this street here. I see a lot of them all the time. I said, so what y’ all doing? Oh, we, we are working. We got a job and I got my GED. That’s what one of them said. I said, that’s good because, and I would always tell the student: if somebody is saying that you didn’t do such and such a work and you won’t ask if you could try and get your, do a substitute or replacement or something. Speak for yourself. I said, you got to talk to your parent. Many a times I will be on the phone calling parents, saying, you need to send somebody up here to see about your child at this school because it’s not going to work if you, you don’t. And that’s what I believe is wrong with the schools. I’m sorry for going back and forth to the schools, but I believe the schools and the library are the most important places for the youth in the community and that the parent has this or somebody has to take a stand with them. So I’m like an advocate.

Nick Mays [01:13:01] Can you name, just name some boards that you’ve served on? Obviously the East Cleveland Public Library. What other boards?

MaryAnn Harris [01:13:11] Well, I’ve served on the, of course, in East Cleveland Library board, the school board. I served on the Project Rainbow board. That’s really actually my nonprofit–a group that I established back in 1984. I served on the Cleveland Association of Black Storytellers board, the National Association of Black Storytellers Association. I was actually in the 13th national president for that. I’ve served on boards. I won’t call them boards but committees, high level committees for facilities in Oberlin and outside of my own community.

Nick Mays [01:14:08] That, Oh, go ahead. I’m sorry.

MaryAnn Harris [01:14:09] No, that’s fine. That’s enough.

Nick Mays [01:14:12] No, no, no, I apologize. I thought you paused.

MaryAnn Harris [01:14:17] I was saying that’s enough.

Nick Mays [01:14:18] It’s enough. Okay, I, so that, that question is as a setup for the following question. In your civic and educational work, in all of your work and contributions in advocacy and volunteerism, what principles have have guided you most strongly?

MaryAnn Harris [01:14:47] Well, I think it’s the caring about people and services to help people get, I guess, what they’re entitled to just to live a decent life, to inspire others. I think I remember seeing this, I’m trying to remember it. There’s a going down 152nd street on this Collingwood. It’s a building, Collingwood area. It’s a senior citizen center building. It says inspire others in order that you may be inspired in the world, the world will take notice. And in all that I do or say, I try and inspire somebody to rise up and do for themselves. Because if you don’t do for yourself, no one else will. And once people are able to do for themselves, they’re able to do for others, they move on. First you got to be able to do it for yourself and then you can try and help somebody else to have a better life. So my, I guess the key for me is inspiration. Inspiring.

Nick Mays [01:16:18] What do you think it’s. What is it about your own life and maybe adversity and things you face that dealt with, that inspired the advocates and work that you’ve done?

MaryAnn Harris [01:16:30] Well, when, when I got down in, when I got or when I get down, I don’t. It’s hard to say. Some people, the feelings of others, some people take things harder than others. Well, I said when people push me down, it gives me more energy to push back up because I’m that kind of a person.

[01:16:59] Where some people, if you push them down, they just get mad and try and take revenge. Well that’s not going to help you. You’re wasting your energy. I said, hey, if somebody push you down; like Dr. Martin Luther King say, if you got to crawl, get up, be the best crawler you can be. Get up, rise up and you will. You gotta inspire yourself. But everybody can’t do that. Everybody can’t take, I guess, hard things. They got to have soft. You have to come from a different direction, I think. And like when I tell a story, first you got to know your audience. If you tell a story that’s above them, it’s not going to help them. But if you tell that story where you’re putting yourself in the place of the people you’re working with, and it’s going to help them because people can feel what you’re saying and caring is what it’s all about. Like the students, they would tell me, they said, uhoh, we ain’t going to be messing with you today because you coming in here making us work.

[01:18:26] I said, but that’s the key. If I don’t make you work, who will? That’s my job to help you work and grow and be able to push and pull somebody else up along the way like your little sister, your cousin over there. So that’s my story.

Nick Mays [01:18:49] So I’m going to give you a photo and, and you tell me what comes to your mind.

MaryAnn Harris [01:19:01] Look at the photo.

Nick Mays [01:19:02] Yeah.

MaryAnn Harris [01:19:06] Oh, this looks like, oh, Dr. MaryAnn Harris, Louis Stokes, former congressman, late congressman, and Dr. Joy Jordan. Yeah, we were in and about the community a whole lot. That’s us. The year I can’t picture, but that’s us. I was in Columbus, Washington, D.C. as a member of the federal, Federal Reserve Committee for the state of Ohio. Well, they only sent so many school board members. And Congressman Stokes, I knew him by everything. And Dr. Jordan, when she first got on that board.

Nick Mays [01:20:03] What do you remember about working with Dr. Jordan?

MaryAnn Harris [01:20:05] She always liked that smile. She always have her smile. She said. I said, well, you a dentist, so you’ve got to smile all the time. That’s why you smile, because you go to get more business. That’s what I would tell her. But about her smile, she’s always smiling out and talk soft. That’s Dr. Joy. Yep.

Nick Mays [01:20:30] Yeah, she asked us to share that with you.

MaryAnn Harris [01:20:32] Yeah, yeah. This is way back. I was trying to remember where it was taken.

Nick Mays [01:20:39] I think now you were on the school board before Dr. Jordan?

MaryAnn Harris [01:20:45] Yeah, I was on there before she came on. Yeah.

Nick Mays [01:20:52] So I just want to ask.

MaryAnn Harris [01:20:53] Nice picture.

Nick Mays [01:20:56] Thank you. I’m gonna ask a couple of wrap up questions. First, in your view, what are some of the most misunderstood or overlooked aspects of East Cleveland or East Cleveland residents.

MaryAnn Harris [01:21:16] I think some of the most that people take East Cleveland residents for granted. They think that we just looking for a free ride where every community has different people and different, different sections. Don’t lump everybody together, but try and work with bringing them together. And some people look for trying to divide and conquer. Work together and we’ll be more stronger together. So that’s one thing that I want to see East Cleveland do. And giving everybody an opportunity to do more for their community. And in turn they’ll take more involvement in the community.

Nick Mays [01:22:16] Dr. Harris, there’s revitalizations, redevelopment efforts going on in East Cleveland right now. Do you support external development efforts and if not, how do you want to see development or revitalization of East Cleveland?

MaryAnn Harris [01:22:39] Well, I would like to see the revitalization not just happening in one area, East Cleveland, where they’re building homes that people who can afford those homes probably will not send their children to East Cleveland Schools. I would like to see the revitalization happen throughout all of the community. For example, over on 5th and 6th street and Claiborne and those. They’re nice homes over there and people are taking care of their property. Those people need support. Those homes that are no longer. That are vacant and destroyed, dilapidated–tear those down and work with the people on those streets so that they can continue to keep their homes up and build their community up. I don’t think all of the money should be geared in one Place one segment and be so and price so that if and when people purchase those properties and they have children, they’re not going to send them to East Cleveland schools because they have no faith in it. I want to see the money spread out and the community build up. For example, where I live, there’s a house that is vacant. On that whole street there’s another house. No one lives in that house, but no one knows that. But they are keeping that property up. The residents may have. May no longer live there, but the property is kept up on it. If they decide to sell it, it still kept up, but this other property went to somewhere ever, but it’s vacant. And the people that it just needs those properties like that, the city needs to board them up and make sure that someone is taken care of the loan so it’s not making the whole street look bad.

[01:25:15] So I don’t know if I answered your question.

Nick Mays [01:25:18] No, you did. What I’m hearing is, and obviously I don’t want to speak for you, but you welcome external development revitalization. But it needs to just. It needs to be done in a way where it reflects a wider area of East Cleveland.

MaryAnn Harris [01:25:38] Exactly.

Nick Mays [01:25:39] And not just one specific space. Does anything give you hope about the city’s future?

MaryAnn Harris [01:25:50] Well, the hope that I see for East Cleveland is and the people; if the people come together and they are coming together, but they’re coming together to make complaints. Let’s come together to build a better community, not just complain about it and then that’s it. Stay involved in the community; stay involved in the activities; stay on the, as they say, case and then keep moving it forward. Not just, okay, we got that done. So what we going to do? Just sit still and wait for the next one. Be ready to step up to the plate and not let the same old same old continue. For example, the election this day will help determine the future of East Cleveland. Some people for receivership, some people are not for receivership. We got to live. Whether it’s receivership or non receivership. You got to keep working in your community to make it move forward. So that’s my thinking.

Nick Mays [01:27:29] And then finally, final question. When people look back at your story coming from Georgia, overcoming the barriers that you have, earning the degrees, serving cities, serving humanity, serving community communities, what do you hope they remember most of Dr. Harris.

MaryAnn Harris [01:27:48] That I was determined that my determination gave me courage to speak up and keep going regardless of whether the situation, what I could do about it or not do about it, but keep going and keep working with others and passing on whatever knowledge or inspiration that I have to encourage them that they need to do the same. Each one, teach one; keep working at it; keep going, keep moving, don’t stop; don’t get mad, because we all get mad about something. The longer you stay mad, the more you lose it out on life. So if you want to be mad, it’s not going to help you or anybody else. Just keep pushing, keep encouraging others and pulling up the younger folks to get them involved in the community. Give them opportunities or help them if they’re interested, learn them, not help them. Say, oh, I’m not doing this, I’m not doing that. But if you’re given that opportunity, do something with it. And if you don’t want to do anything with it, then pass it on to somebody else. Because it’s not just one person, it’s a whole group of people out here.

Nick Mays [01:29:22] Well, Dr. Harris, thank you so much. Thank you for your contribution to this oral history project. Thank you for your years and decades of service and your work and advocacy and humanity. And so your life story definitely inspires me to continue to do the good work. So thank you so much.

MaryAnn Harris [01:29:46] You’re more than welcome. And thank you for providing the opportunity to share my story.

Nick Mays [01:29:53] You’re welcome.

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