Abstract

In this 2025 interview, Ms. Leonna Riley reflects on her upbringing between Euclid and East Cleveland and the deep intergenerational ties that shaped her sense of identity and belonging in East Cleveland. She describes spending much of her childhood with her grandparents, eventually moving into their home in 2022. Riley discusses her education at private schools and University, where she studied and helped lead a student organization focused on natural-hair education and cultural support. She also reflects on her observations of neighborhood change. Finally, she describes her pathway to working at the East Cleveland Public Library, emphasizing how the supportive environment has fostered her personal growth, professional development, and desire to serve residents through inclusive, community-centered work.

Loading...

Media is loading
 

Interviewee

Riley, Leonna (interviewee)

Interviewer

Mays, Nick (interviewer)

Project

East Cleveland

Date

10-24-2025

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

119 minutes

Transcript

Nick Mays [00:00:00] My name is Dr. Nicholas Mays, and today is October 24, 2025. We are here at the home of Ms. Leonna Riley in East Cleveland, and we are here for the East Cleveland Oral History Project. Liana represents a new generation of East Clevelanders rooted in family, service and community. Though she grew up between Euclid and East Cleveland, much of her childhood was spent in East Cleveland. [00:00:34] As an employee of the East Cleveland Public Library, she’s helping to shape the city’s future. Today, we’ll talk about her journey, her connection to East Cleveland, and what this place continues to mean to her. Hello, Ms. Riley. How are you doing?

Leonna Riley [00:00:53] Hello. I’m doing well.

Nick Mays [00:00:56] Thank you for being here with us.

Leonna Riley [00:00:58] Thank you for having me.

Nick Mays [00:01:00] Can. Can you start by first telling us your full name, your date of birth, your age, and date of birth?

Leonna Riley [00:01:09] Full name, like, include my middle name. My name is Leanna Elaine Riley. I was born […] 1998.

Nick Mays [00:01:21] Okay. We have several topics. We’re going to start with topic one, which is family and roots. We’re going to go all the way back, back in the day. Right.

Leonna Riley [00:01:31] Okay.

Nick Mays [00:01:33] Can you start by telling me a bit about your family background, where your parents and grandparents came from, and what you remember about their lives in East Cleveland and Euclid?

Leonna Riley [00:01:53] So I guess I’ll start with saying I’m the youngest of seven. I have six siblings. My mom and dad got married in 1996. My dad had four children already. My mom had one, and then they had two together after they got married. My dad comes from down south. My mom comes from Youngstown in Richmond, Indiana. [00:02:25] I think that more specifically it would be Atlanta, Georgia, for my father’s side of the family. Yeah. And I did grow up here in East Cleveland. I remember just witnessing my mom and my dad, even still now, just spending a lot of time with the people that they’ve known since they were kids and purchasing homes, land, and property here in East Cleveland and still having, like, that East Cleveland pride. [00:03:04] Beautiful.

Nick Mays [00:03:08] Do you know anything about your ancestors or Southern roots?

Leonna Riley [00:03:16] Off the top of my head. See, that’s. That’s like my brother, he has read. We have a. My grandmother side of the family has a history book. I’ve never read it, but my brother has. So I don’t know. But I know vaguely if there was a conversation I may be able to add to it. But no, not off the top of my head.

Nick Mays [00:03:38] Do you know what brought your mom’s parents or your dad’s parents to the north or to Cleveland or to East Cleveland?

Leonna Riley [00:03:51] So when I think of my dad. So that would be like I said, my dad is from, not from, but his family is from Atlanta, Georgia. And his father moved here I don’t know what year, but him and my grandfather and my grandmother, they got married here in Cleveland and they stayed here, which prompted my great aunt–her name is Maddy Webb–she also moved here as well, and she lived here. So there was only two people really from our my dad’s side of the family that really migrated up here. And then with my grandmother, she moved here when she was 18. I believe her father had already lived here. And then her mom ended up moving here years later. And yeah, she, my grandmother moved from Richmond, Indiana, to Cleveland.

Nick Mays [00:04:48] And you speak of the grandmother that you live with today.

Leonna Riley [00:04:51] Yes. Mrs. Jones.

Nick Mays [00:04:55] What did your grandparents do as a career and your parents?

Leonna Riley [00:05:05] My grandfather, my dad’s father, he was a minister, an ordained pastor. He had his own church before he passed away. And his previous wife, my dad’s mom, she worked inside the East Cleveland school system in the cafeteria. And I’m not sure if she did anything else, but that is the job that I believe she retired from. And then my mom’s parents, they both worked at General Motors at the Chevrolet plant, and that’s where they both retired from.

Nick Mays [00:05:50] Is that in East Cleveland or is that in Cleveland?

Leonna Riley [00:05:54] No, it’s not in East Cleveland. It’s. I don’t know what city it’s in, but yeah, I know that that’s where they both retired from. And my parents, my dad is an entrepreneur who also works full time for a business called Clean Harbors. And then my mom has worked for St Vincent Hospital and Cleveland Clinic, and she now works in the digestive disease department for Cleveland Clinic.

Nick Mays [00:06:27] Can you introduce us to your grandmother, Mrs. Jones? Husband. What was your grandfather’s name?

Leonna Riley [00:06:34] Jesse Jones. Jesse Dillard Jones.

Nick Mays [00:06:40] And what did he do?

Leonna Riley [00:06:42] He also worked at the Chevrolet plant. I don’t know what his role was. I know my grandmother worked in the cafeteria as well, serving the food. So there was about a thousand men there that she had to serve. And I’m not sure what he, what his role was.

Nick Mays [00:07:02] Do you know how long she worked there or when she retired?

Leonna Riley [00:07:06] I think it was over 30 years. And I know my grandfather was in the, in the Navy as well.

Nick Mays [00:07:16] What are some of your earliest memories of spending time here with your grandparents in East Cleveland?

Leonna Riley [00:07:25] I would say my earliest memories would have to be like when I think about it, I think about, like, laughing, whether it was us watching something that was like that had only like music, something black and white, or Tom and Jerry, or even like Judge Judy. I used to, if I was home from school, I would sit with my grand grandfather and my grandmother and that’s what we would watch while he would read the newspaper. [00:08:00] She would watch TV or be on her tablet. Yeah, that’s. That’s like my earliest memory is just laughing at a good tv.

Nick Mays [00:08:13] What were some of the values instilled that are still that they instilled in you, that you live with today?

Leonna Riley [00:08:26] I’m very, very family oriented. I think that that can show up in different ways. My grandmother is like a natural. She’s like a hard nurturer. She’s going to do everything for you, but her language might not be the most kind. So I think that one of the things that she’s instilled in me is we need to spend time together as a family. And one of the things that I’ve learned is sometimes family doesn’t want to be around family, because they don’t like things that become conversation or they don’t like to be topic of conversation. So how do I. My thought process is how do I change the narrative to where everyone feels welcome, whether this is my actual house or whether it’s hers. So I’m very family oriented and I want everyone to know that this is a safe space. This is grandma’s house. But she’s also changing. I mean, she’s 99, so people would say, yes, she’s stuck in her ways, but I mean, on a good day she’s not. She’s open to change. So I would say I’m very family oriented and that’s something that both of my parents instilled in me and that both sides of my family, that means a lot to me.

Nick Mays [00:09:53] Do you, do you think that dynamic shows up in life today or, or is a part of who you are? Is that reflected in who you are as an adult, your humanity, that you kind of had this two special bonds and unique relationship?

Leonna Riley [00:10:20] I guess so. It’s the ironic thing is like I can remember my grandmother taking care of me and nurturing me, bathing me, feeding me and all of the things. And one of the blessings that people get to experience like myself is the roles being reversed of now I’m doing that for her. And so I’m like, oh, she had a lot of patience because she didn’t just do it for me, she did it for my brother, she did it for her children, she did it for my sister. And of course she did it for Me. So now I think about like growing up, I was closer, closest with my grandfather, her husband, or my mom’s dad. And when he passed away, I was like, you kind of feel like, well, she’s older. What’s going on here? And the Lord just kind of checked me like I don’t even, he was like, you don’t even, you wouldn’t even have the capacity to take care of him. She, at least she’s able to do for herself more than what he could. And so I look at it as a blessing that the roles have been reversed because it’s a learning experience and it makes me even more grateful for when she and my mom took care of me. And I think about, my grandmother is spoiled. I don’t know if I told you that, but she’s very spoiled. When my mom turned 16 or whenever she got her driver’s license, my grandmother has stopped, she just stopped driving, period. So my mom is now 62 and she’s still driving her mom around. And I’m like, I could do it sometimes because I know my mom is tired, she’s married, she has her own life. And of course she doesn’t want to always have to say no. So that’s where I step in sometimes. I like to fill the gap. I got grandma, she with me today or don’t worry about it, go, you can go straight home. I’m home. You don’t have to worry. Like on a day like today, she doesn’t have an aid, but I’m off. So it worked out perfectly. You guys were able to come here. But yeah, it’s a, it’s a real life blessing that the roles have been reversed and it, it makes me reflect on having her and then also seeing I’ve been blessed to have three grandmothers. My grandfather remarried, so I do have a, a bonus grandmother. But none of them were the same. They were all different. They all loved me in different ways and I, I’m able to appreciate that now and same with my grandfathers.

Nick Mays [00:13:08] Wow. Thank you for that response. Powerful. How did moving between Euclid and East Cleveland shape your sense of identity growing up, you think?

Leonna Riley [00:13:24] Honestly I never thought about how it shaped my identity. I would say if anything. But you have to think like the most I’ve been in East Cleveland is like to where it was, not necessarily where it was safe, but like I was always at my grandparents home. Like my dad’s mom lived around the corner, so I was in East Cleveland, but I was always somewhere where family was. [00:13:58] It was Never like I was out roaming. How I could be in Euclid. Like, I could leave my house, just make sure I’m out or make sure I’m back home. Excuse me. Before the street lights come on or they’ll ring the bell. They had a bell. They used to ring parents. Whereas in East Cleveland, we were always at someone’s home or running up and down the street. I didn’t have that same freedom. So it was kind of like my parents kept me from certain things within the city. But I knew something was happening. As far as, like, I guess you can say, like, crime or. Drug abuse, alcoholism. Like, I knew that that was in the city as well. But as far as, like, my identity.

Nick Mays [00:14:54] Because it was a different dynamic. Right. It was different. Euclid was different than East Cleveland.

Leonna Riley [00:14:56] You could. I don’t think. I don’t think that that’s something that I thought about until, like, literally, you just asked me. It’s always been, like, the opposite of, like, going to a private school, going to school in Richmond, and then Chardon, and then, like, not necessarily, like, losing my sense of self. But I guess you could say that that is what happened. [00:15:27] So it was like I kind of focused on what made my identity blurry instead of what made it more clear, if that makes sense. In reference to East Cleveland or Euclid or Chardon or Chesterland.

Nick Mays [00:15:43] Did you ever pause if someone asks you where you from? Did you ever have to pause?

Leonna Riley [00:15:50] No, I used to just say I was from Euclid. I didn’t really. I used to jokingly say East Cleveland, but that would be, like to people that would know: “you know, girl, you are not from East Cleveland. You from Euclid. It’s not the same.”

Nick Mays [00:16:06] I see you’re wearing your East Cleveland shirt today.

Leonna Riley [00:16:09] Yeah, my parents got me this shirt. He got it from the Shaw picnic, I think two years ago now. A year ago, I didn’t go. This year.

Nick Mays I did.

Leonna Riley You went to Shaw

Nick Mays [00:16:25] No. I went to the reunion.

Leonna Riley [00:16:28] But did you go to Shaw?

Nick Mays [00:16:30] I did not. But there was hundreds of other people who didn’t go to Shaw who was there representing.

Leonna Riley [00:16:37] Yeah.

Nick Mays [00:16:42] Did you intentionally wear that shirt?

Leonna Riley [00:16:45] Yes.

Nick Mays [00:16:46] For this engagement?

Leonna Riley [00:16:49] Yeah, I did.

Nick Mays [00:16:50] How often do you attend the Shaw reunion?

Leonna Riley [00:16:56] So it wasn’t until these last four years where I’ve been inconsistent because I did not go.

Nick Mays [00:17:06] So apparently you don’t have to go to Shaw.

Leonna Riley [00:17:10] Yeah. And I. And, well, okay, so you have to think, like, a lot of my friends that I’ve become close to– at least two– that I can say, like they’re my sisters. Both of their parents either went to Shaw or one of their parents did. So we used to all make sure we would go because that would be like, okay, well we gonna go to the picnic. But here recently it was kind of like, they’ll be fine without us. We could do something else. But I’m learning like my parents, that is a way, like they feel supported. So I didn’t go this year, but I did go last year.

Nick Mays [00:17:53] So your parents attend every year?

Leonna Riley [00:17:56] It seems like that, yeah. And they’re still like on their like class reunion committees and all of that? Yeah, both of them.

Nick Mays [00:18:06] Do you know what class?

Leonna Riley [00:18:10] I think 81 and 82. Yeah. My mom is older than my dad. She came out 81. Yeah. Both of their. I don’t know if people know, but the yearbooks, a lot of the yearbooks are on the East Cleveland Public Library’s website.

Nick Mays [00:18:32] Do you know what from what year?

Leonna Riley [00:18:37] I know they have both of my parents, but the, the hard thing is if, if they don’t have, you know, if they don’t have the physical book, it can’t be scanning. And so I know they don’t have every year, of course, but they do have a lot. Least. Least. Maybe like six. Six year books, maybe even more.

Nick Mays [00:19:00] I’m gonna have to look that up.

Leonna Riley [00:19:01] Yeah.

Nick Mays [00:19:02] Thank you. Okay, let’s, let’s, let’s move on. Let’s pivot. What. What did East Cleveland look like for you and feel like when you were coming up? Sounds, people, places. And what stands stands out to you the most? And that’s whenever you spend time, whether it was the weekends or the summer. Right.

Leonna Riley [00:19:39] It felt like a home away from home as a kid, I guess you could say it felt foreign until, like, you know how, like, it takes you a minute to warm up somewhere. Like it felt like that until you started playing with like the neighbors or started running up and down the street, hearing people play their music, waving to neighbors, and there was never like silence. [00:20:10] I don’t know if that makes sense. Like, you always heard something, whether it was something in the distance or something your neighbors. Because, I mean, I don’t know if you noticed, but there’s two empty lots. But there used to be houses there and used to be a big family next door. And I can just, I can literally hear their door opening and closing still Because it just was always. It was like a revolving door. But yeah, I can remember feeling like a sense of Comfort of safety. Like, if something did pop off down the street or in the city, people would make sure we got in the house, make sure the doors are locked. You know, we were very well protected and some might say sheltered.

Nick Mays [00:21:05] You’ve mentioned in a previous conversation that you rarely see kids playing outside. Now, how does today’s East Cleveland in that way compare with the one you remember as a child?

Leonna Riley [00:21:29] How does it compare?

Nick Mays [00:21:32] Cuz that you. You made a comment that you like, I rarely see kids playing outside. How does.

Leonna Riley [00:21:38] So. I know I’m not old, but when I was younger, you know, I played outside every single day. That was what I did. It wasn’t until, like, YouTube came out that I really was in the house. But so just seeing the difference, like, it didn’t matter if you knew people’s names, you knew their faces. [00:22:08] Like, okay, yeah, I remember playing with you. Or did your mom say, you can come outside waiting to knock on people’s door? You know, like, outside every day. Homework. What? Homework? When. See that, that was my problem. I do my homework. But yeah, when I see kids playing now, it’s very, like, sporadic. [00:22:33] And I enjoy when I do see them because it just brings that joy. Like, okay, it’s some kids outside, but like I said, going from no silence to like, even just hearing soft sounds who are like, now you literally don’t hear. You can hear a pin drop on the street. And that’s crazy to me. [00:22:57] But I don’t take that for granted. Because now when people are noisy or whatever, it’s kind of like, okay, what time is it? It’s time to go to bed. Y’ all still outside. But yeah, when I do see kids, like, if I’m driving home from work, I’m like, okay, not that there’s still hope, but it’s still a good thing that people play outside, because it’s not something you see often around here. People would rather be somewhere on their phones or outside on their phones, just silent in a group, not really communicating, not really making memories, if that makes sense.

Nick Mays [00:23:41] In your view, what do you think the causes are for neighborhood changes of transformations in East Cleveland? The last couple of decades, you talked about seeing vacant homes, fewer services.

Leonna Riley [00:24:02] Right? And I think the first thing that comes to my mind is people. People want to get out of East Cleveland. Like, I hear people say, I can’t wait to get out of East Cleveland. I can’t wait to get out of East Cleveland. So people have left. And I think one of the. One of the thoughts that I had on the phone or when we talked previously is that there’s still people here. However, you don’t get to see them as often because one would just assume that they’re not here. But it’s like if you navigate the space, if you navigate the city, you see there’s beautiful homes, there’s people with children, there’s still a whole youth that is waiting to be influenced by, I guess, like you mentioned, people like myself, whether it’s. Whether I say, hey, you need, you walk in the library, you need to speak so people can know who you are. If something happens, we need to know who you are. You need to speak if you enter anybody’s space. So just small impacts like that makes a difference and it helps me. It helps me make sure that I don’t look at East Cleveland as a big picture, but really as the small pictures that make up a big picture. If that makes sense.

Nick Mays [00:25:25] No, it absolutely does. You talked about East Cleveland having fewer services and vacant homes. How does that affect you or how do you think about that? How do you think it impacts the city?

Leonna Riley [00:25:48] So I think about wanting to pursue a life that will lead to wealth and good health and, you know, all of the things. And so sometimes you, if you look just with what you see, you could get discouraged and you can make. It could make you think like it’s not possible. Oh, the city of East Cleveland is never gonna get better. [00:26:14] Oh, it’s always going to be like this. It’s only getting worse. But then working in a place that offers different types of resources, it offers educational programs for free. Whether it’s technology based or whether it’s something as simple as creating a craft, you know, there’s a lot of different things that this city has that I didn’t know about until I started working at the library.

Nick Mays [00:26:45] Despite the changes over the years and even over the decades, for sure. Are there still moments or places in East Cleveland that remind you of the one you came up in?

Leonna Riley [00:27:06] No, No, it’s not. It’s not until if we host something, like if we host, then we have company and my family’s here. That nostalgic feeling does happen. But on a day to day basis, there’s nothing that I see that reminds me of what the city used to be. Really. There’s actually, if I had to really think. [00:27:44] I’m thinking about just different things my grandmother used to make us do. Whether it was helping her plant flowers, helping her clean the yard, and there’s two, there’s two young gentlemen or young boys. And I see them sometimes helping their grandmother. I’m like, yeah, that’s, that’s good. It’s right around the corner. And those are some of the kids that I see playing. [00:28:08] Whether it’s playing curveball, bouncing the ball back and forth, or playing actual basketball, stuff like that makes me. Makes me think, like, okay, there’s so many people who have had children young, and so that I guess what comes with that is there’s no, like, wisdom possibly, that’s passed down. So when I see people helping their grandmother or their grandmother making them help her, that is, like, I guess that is something that makes me think of my childhood. And it was good to have that influence and that impact that my grandmother had.

Nick Mays [00:28:55] Thank you, Ms. Riley. I want to pivot and talk about education and your college experience.

Leonna Riley [00:29:01] Okay.

Nick Mays [00:29:02] You attended private school through the 4th through the 12th grade.

Leonna Riley [00:29:08] Yes.

Nick Mays [00:29:10] How did that experience influence your life?

Leonna Riley [00:29:20] I hated. Influenced my life in a. 

Nick Mays Unpack that real quick.

Leonna Riley Oh, I did hate it. And the only reason why I didn’t hate it is because I have friends. But when you think of the people, like, I didn’t have a black teacher until I got to college, and it took me, like, have I ever had a black? And I was like, no, you never have. And it just. I mean, who would like being. Who would like the experience of microaggressions? Who would like the experience of not having a sense of identity? Who would. Who would enjoy that? Who would. Who would enjoy just being told, go to school. Because I said this, where you got to go? So now, like, today, everything’s always full circle. So if I didn’t have that experience, I wouldn’t experience my best friend going into labor. She. We’ve been friends since fifth grade. I wouldn’t experience genuine good relationships that take work that are hard to have, but they’re a blessing to have. I wouldn’t be, I guess you could say, as articulate. [00:30:51] That’s one of the compliments a lot of people give me, like, oh, you’re very articulate. And I did hate it. But I’m also grateful for it because I think that in this life, community is something that’s very important. And I didn’t have that when I was physically in school, just in reference to high school more specifically. And then branching off into college, learning how to nurture my own relationships and not just banking on, oh, I’m gonna see you at school, you know, so it takes genuine work. It takes effort, takes time and patience, and we need each other. We can’t. In my opinion, you can’t get through life without friendships.

Nick Mays [00:31:50] Can you? Can you speak? How did you experience. In what way did you experience microaggressions? And when did you become conscious of that, that it was microaggressions?

Leonna Riley [00:32:03] I don’t think I was conscious of it until, like, Until I got to Bowling Green. Everything just kind of made sense. Whereas, like, I think the worst. The worst experience I had was with my golf coach, because I golfed all four years of high school. I asked not to be put on varsity because I didn’t want to. I didn’t like the coach, so. And I didn’t want to deal with him. He was a little harsh and showed favoritism. I got left out of our senior photos. So, you know, it’s just. It’s just that what someone would assume is unintentional, you would. You would just know, oh, no, they purposely did this or they’re purposely secluding you or isolating you. My sister had her own experience, too, with our golf coach, but she wanted to play varsity. She enjoyed it. I didn’t enjoy it. I wanted to play volleyball. But just another thing with that time period, whether. I mean, fourth grade is different. I mean, fourth through eighth grade, I’m okay. I have to listen to my parents. But I think once you get into high school, you learn, like, okay, I don’t want to do everything they tell me. I wanted to go to a different high school. And my dad was like, if you want to go to this high school, you need to write a paper. I’m like, write a paper. Who got to do that or who has to do that? And so I never wrote it because I’m like, I’m not. I’m just gonna do what they told me. And it wasn’t until my senior year that I started hanging out with people from school, that I was actually getting invited places from people or with people from school. [00:34:12] And then I also went on our. It’s called Kairos. It’s like a spiritual retreat that they host. And that is where I did bond with some people that if I saw them today, you know, I could speak. But I’m also, like, that type of person. If I feel like speaking and I can’t remember your name, but I know your face, I’m gonna speak like, hey, did you go to NDCL? I think I know you from NDCL. Or I might be like, they was one of them. One of the ones that–whether it was conscious or unconscious–they just kind of just how I mentioned my golf coach. You could be isolated and it’d be based off of race, but it’s not like explicitly said. [00:35:07] So. I didn’t have a lot of friends that. I realized, excuse me, once I got to college, I was like, oh, we were only friends because we were the only black people. And that’s sad. But I mean, it’s also true. And I, I’m grateful for that experience, like I said, because it. I still have healthy relationships. [00:35:32] Maybe we don’t talk all the time, but I still am able to nurture that relationship to where it’s like, how are you doing now? What’s going on in your life now? It’s not. We don’t, we really don’t talk about school because we don’t have to, but it’s. It was a blessing in disguise, but it was very hard and harsh.

Nick Mays [00:35:57] Did you, so you attended a PWI high school. Was it predominantly white? Did you, did you go through any identity crisis that was connected to being at an all white high school or going to all white school?

Leonna Riley [00:36:16] Absolutely. I, it wasn’t until I joined the organization I told you about Curly connection. That was like the first thing I did for Leonna. I now, coincidentally, it was natural hair. And I had had this. I went natural, or I chose to go natural my sophomore year of high school. So I had been natural for maybe like seven years, however, long before I joined the natural hair organization. But once I started talking about my experience with natural hair, that was when I realized, like, oh, I’ve been kind of learning how to love myself and my features for a while now, but I didn’t know that that is what I was doing. I just thought I was trying to take care of my hair. [00:37:12] But with our hair, I don’t know if you know who Tabitha Brown is, but she gives her hair a name. It’s called. She calls her hair Donna. So, like, I think of our. I don’t. I didn’t used to think of our hair as a person, but it’s really like just a stem of us in our experience, I believe.

Nick Mays [00:37:35] So we were talking about identity, and if you experience an identity crisis going attending a PWI in, in high school, and you responded, thank you for that. I feel like I have a good sense of how you experience it, and it seems like it seems like maybe, correct me if I’m, if I’m wrong, if you were not conscious of it in high school, but it was post high School in college, where you kind of look back and said, I guess.

Leonna Riley [00:38:15] Maybe that wasn’t the right. I did say that. You’re right. I did say that. It wasn’t that I wasn’t conscious of it. It was more so, like, What could I do about it, if that makes sense. So, like I didn’t start sticking up for myself in that way of like, oh, I know who I am until college. Whereas, like, in high school, even something as simple as saying, oh, you got your hair done, or, oh, like, something, something. I don’t even. I can’t even. I can’t even think of nothing. I’m happy that I cannot. But whether it was like, oh, my coach calling me Tiger woods because that’s the only black, you know, player that he knows, and then not being able to stick up for myself in a way of like, one, I didn’t care, and then two, I also didn’t want to be there. So what I had experienced was just adding to that. It just was feeding into it. And so I think the consciousness was like, oh, I could have stuck up for myself or I should have, but I also was very myself. So I still had joy. I still made people smile. I still was like the. I don’t claim class clown because that’s not who I am. But on my team, I was the one like, okay, that’s okay, we lost, but we have fun, and that’s really why we’re here. So. Yeah, I just don’t want to say I didn’t have that sense of joy because. Or like, I was just in. Down in the dumps, but maybe I didn’t. It was like I always had the light in me, but maybe I didn’t see the light until I got to college, if that makes sense. I think that does.

Nick Mays [00:40:19] So you were an athlete for four years?

Leonna Riley [00:40:23] Sure. I was an athlete who was not athletic.

Nick Mays [00:40:29] You were still an athlete?

Leonna Riley [00:40:32] Yeah. There was no strength training for golf.

Nick Mays [00:40:35] What inspired the choice to join a team and to be an athlete?

Leonna Riley [00:40:39] My father made the choice for me and my sister.

Nick Mays [00:40:48] Do you think he was trying to do what Tiger woods father was doing?

Leonna Riley [00:40:53] I mean, yeah, like. And that’s what I. Yeah. I didn’t take it serious enough to where I could be like, oh, I can get a scholarship for this. Which that was his intention because I was golfing. Before high school, he had some different golf programs, but since it was not something I wanted to do, I didn’t take it serious.

Nick Mays [00:41:14] What did Young Ms. Riley in high school want to do? Because you’ve been talking a lot about what you didn’t want to do. What did you want to do?

Leonna Riley [00:41:28] The sport I wanted to play was volleyball. I do remember that because. Because I played in eighth grade, so I wanted to play going into high school. But golf and volleyball were at the same time, so I had to choose one. And I chose golf because that’s what my dad chose. And I was very interested in drama or theater, acting. So those were. Those are really my two things.

Nick Mays [00:41:57] Were you able to pursue that?

Leonna Riley [00:41:59] No, I had to take a see. Yeah, I didn’t really. I guess you can say I didn’t really believe in myself to. You know, high school is cliquey. I wasn’t in the cliques. I was just. I just knew everybody, so I didn’t want to be. And I think just looking back on it. I wasn’t who I saw in that area of drama or theater. So, yeah, I didn’t have a.

Nick Mays [00:42:35] Can you expand? Expand. What does that mean?

Leonna Riley [00:42:46] It was almost as if. And this is not to say this is exactly, but this is just how I’m thinking about it. Looking back on it, it’s almost as if, like, I was not to say I was meant to be on the outside looking in, but that’s just what it felt like at that time. Like it wasn’t meant for me to be in that experience of drama or theater, whatever the case may be. It wasn’t like I wasn’t feeling it there. Like, I didn’t even go to the plays. But I will go to, like, a play at Caramu House because I like them. I’ve taken an acting class at Karamu House because I’ve liked them.

Nick Mays [00:43:39] When did you take that class?

Leonna Riley [00:43:41] I took that as an adult. I took an adult acting class about three years ago. Two years ago.

Nick Mays [00:43:50] Why do you think you took that class you wanted?

Leonna Riley [00:43:53] Probably because I didn’t get to take it. And not that I didn’t get a chance, but like I said, I didn’t have a desire to be with the people that I saw doing that, if that makes sense. So it was kind of like I wanted. I enjoyed acting, I enjoyed drama, but it wasn’t until, I think my parents had asked, like, we thought you was gonna be an actress. [00:44:22] Yeah, but that was before I saw what it looked like in that setting. And I did not have a desire to do it in high school.

Nick Mays [00:44:31] How’d the class go? Did it go well?

Leonna Riley [00:44:32] In college or as an adult?

Nick Mays [00:44:37] Yeah, as an adult.

Leonna Riley [00:44:39] It Was nice. I took it with one of my closest friends and I almost got my dad to do it with me. So that was cool that he was even interested in taking it because he’s. We are similar. But I think that if we would have got to do it, I just would have been fun. It’s not too late to do it now, but that just would be awesome.

Nick Mays [00:45:06] Do they invite you to perform in a production or.

Leonna Riley [00:45:10] No, you do at the end of the class. It’s a free. It’s a free show. And I performed Mother to Son by Langston Hughes. Or I guess you could say recited.

Nick Mays [00:45:30] You have photos and videos of it?

Leonna Riley [00:45:33] Maybe.

Nick Mays [00:45:34] Can you share?

Leonna Riley [00:45:38] Yeah, yeah. It’s funny because my. I was out to eat one day with my boyfriend and my mom. Or no, my dad had just sent him like this. First of all, why is my dad texting you? But it’s allowed. He sent him the video of me doing that. And that was before we even knew each other. [00:45:58] I was like, what? And I can’t remember what. What my dad had said. I don’t know. It was probably either my dad or my mom on his phone, but he was just saying, this is what she should be doing. So that was fun.

Nick Mays [00:46:15] Will you share that with me?

Leonna Riley [00:46:17] The video? I don’t know if I have it, but if I do, yeah, I have pictures for sure. I have videos of me practicing for sure, too, but I don’t know if I have the actual video clip on my phone.

Nick Mays [00:46:32] I’ll take both. Okay, so one more question before we leave high school. You mentioned a few times that you didn’t want to go to the school you were attending. What school did you want to attend and why?

Leonna Riley [00:46:54] So I word it differently, to be clear. So I didn’t want to take a risk of going to sticking to something familiar. My parents were willing to, and they did. They allowed us to take a risk of being put into a PWI in Chesterland, Ohio, with a college preparatory school. That was the risk they were taking. The risk was, okay. This is unfamiliar territory. But they have each other because I went with my sister and they’ll be okay. We are okay. And I wanted to do. Or I wanted to go and stick to the familiar, which is where my friends were going. And that [inaudible].

Nick Mays [00:47:48] Okay, so moving on. At Bowling Green State University, you studied Speech Pathology and Organizational communication. What drew you to those majors?

Leonna Riley [00:48:08] I wouldn’t say that I studied speech pathology. I would say I just kind of failed. But that is the Route that I had to take in order to be a sign language interpreter. I had to major in speech pathology. Couldn’t quite get past the class, though Intro. I don’t even know what I was doing wrong other than that maybe I just wasn’t focused. But yeah, I like to say what I’m meant to be.

Nick Mays [00:48:34] Was that. Was it that academically challenging and difficult at course?

Leonna Riley [00:48:41] Sure it was.

Nick Mays [00:48:49] Let’s start at the beginning. You’re applying to universities and colleges.

Leonna Riley [00:48:56] I didn’t want to go. I wanted to take a gap year. Once I found out, like, oh, people are doing that. Like, yeah, I need a break. No break. You’re going to school. Bowling Green was outside of. I think I visited. So. Technically, like my junior and senior year. I didn’t visit any other school then. [00:49:34] BGSU that I can remember in this moment, however, my brother went to Kent, my sister went to Youngstown. My brother and my other sister went to Western Michigan. And I had visited for a cousin of mine, Fordham, and I had also visited Howard. I think those are my, like, colleges that I visited. [00:50:03] Whether it was for other people or myself, it was, yeah, really just bgsu. So that is the school I chose, and that is also the school that accepted me.

Nick Mays [00:50:20] So you’re accepted to BG. What was your major going into?

Leonna Riley [00:50:27] It was undecided.

Nick Mays [00:50:30] The university?

Leonna Riley [00:50:32] I was undecided.

Nick Mays [00:50:33] For how long?

Leonna Riley [00:50:34] Until my junior year.

Nick Mays [00:50:38] Then you chose to major in what?

Leonna Riley [00:50:41] Organizational communications or communications with the area of emphasis in organizational comp.

Nick Mays [00:50:52] What made you major in that?

Leonna Riley [00:50:54] It was what, my study, I guess. My advisor. She. I think her name was Rachel. She actually was basically like the first person in my college experience. I was like, okay, girl, your GPA is low, so you’re probably not going to get into the business school how you think you’re going to get in. [00:51:18] So you might as well do this communications route and learn how to communicate within a business and be still considered, you know, not technically a business major, but I could still work in that business field with that degree, so.

Nick Mays [00:51:40] So you initially had aspirations to get into business school or business. That’s what you wanted to major in?

Leonna Riley [00:51:50] Yeah, I thought I did.

Nick Mays [00:51:56] Expound.

Leonna Riley [00:51:59] I guess you could say, like, my parents were like, oh, you need to be a doctor, Lawyer. Don’t want to be that. So how do I make money by learning about business? So I thought. I didn’t know. You can make money by learning how to communicate and help people do that within the workspace. [00:52:20] And that is what I. I literally fell in love with that and learning that, I was like, oh, my gosh, nobody knows how to talk to people. That’s the problem. So. So I just. That was like my interest.

Nick Mays [00:52:36] So you had two majors, right?

Leonna Riley [00:52:40] What do you mean?

Nick Mays [00:52:42] You majored in one field and then you majored in the second field later on from our previous conversations. And maybe I’m so.

Leonna Riley [00:52:49] Yeah.

Nick Mays [00:52:50] Remembering.

Leonna Riley [00:52:50] So when you’re undecided, they give you that freedom of taking the classes that you might be interested in. And so since I. You couldn’t major in American Sign Language at bgsu, you could only minor in it. So I had to take speech pathology and that was the route I was going to have to take if I would have stayed with becoming an interpreter. That didn’t happen.

Nick Mays [00:53:24] I want to get back to that. But first I want to acquire to What kind of first year. What kind of student were you? Were you outgoing? Were you a part of the clubs?

Leonna Riley [00:53:41] Clubs, yeah.

Nick Mays [00:53:42] Or student clubs or student organizations.

Leonna Riley [00:53:47] No, I was like. Partying. Yeah. From Thursday to Sunday. Going to church on Sunday because service doesn’t start till three. I won’t say that I hung out with the wrong people because it wasn’t until I moved into a different dorm room and I was like, oh, my gosh, all this stuff be happening on campus. I didn’t even know about it. Like, for example, I didn’t go to our Black Issues conference because I didn’t know about it. But I didn’t know about it because I wasn’t. I wasn’t searching for things like that. So I just was kind of, I guess you could say, like getting a taste of what I thought was freedom. But in reality it was just kind of like. Navigating a new space and not knowing what to do and not acknowledging that to the resources that were offered outside of having an advisor. Like, I was also in the TRIO program, which that was helpful. It helped me a lot. But I didn’t use it. I didn’t use it right. So I didn’t know how to use the resources that were offered to me.

Nick Mays [00:55:20] Now, I want you to, if you may, unpack the statement that you referenced that you said a couple of times and that didn’t happen. You know, the major I majored in this and I aspired to take these classes and do this work, go this direction, but that didn’t happen. Why didn’t it happen?

Leonna Riley [00:55:46] I guess you could say someone changed my mind or some. Someone showed me a different route and not like to do what I wanted to do, but Just literally like a different route in life. I would have that type of outlook on it. I would say that since I didn’t know what I wanted to do, I couldn’t take a break like I wanted to do. So I was just kind of there. And it wasn’t until really like the pandemic that I was like, you didn’t want to be here in the first place, so maybe take a break to figure out what it is that you want to do. So that is what ended up happening later down the line. But I enjoyed taking my media classes. I enjoyed taking my communication classes, Interpersonal communication, advocacy. I enjoyed taking my African American studies. But I wasn’t. I wasn’t a good student. That’s just not where I thrived. I thrived with like, I thrived literally in the classroom. Now outside of the classroom. No.

Nick Mays [00:57:00] What do you mean by you are not good student?

Leonna Riley [00:57:04] I almost got kicked out of school because my grades were so bad. Yeah. And it wasn’t until my mom was like, girl, they about to kick you out of school. I was like, oh, I gotta do better. And I did do better, but it didn’t last. So I still struggled to apply myself. I still struggled to, like, even though, like, I was enjoying what I was learning, I wasn’t doing the assignments. I wasn’t being wise with how I spent my time. And I even. I mean, you’re allowed to skip class, but I mean, how many times you gonna skip before you realize, oh, I don’t even know what we talking about in the class. So I was wasted a lot of time.

Nick Mays [00:57:52] I see. Were you aware at the time that you weren’t given your best effort?

Leonna Riley [00:58:04] I think so, yeah. I think I was aware. It was kind of like a. Well, I don’t know what I want to do, so I’m not going to do anything. Maybe like not having that thought process, but really just acting on that in. In more ways than one because I ended up being mbg, being a student for six years. No degree. So.

Nick Mays [00:58:39] Did you. Did you have any professors, faculty, staff who was a part of mentorship structure try to inspire you? Mentor you?

Leonna Riley [00:58:50] Yeah.

Nick Mays [00:58:51] Encourage you?

Leonna Riley [00:58:51] I had at least three people that I could. Yeah. Three people that I can think of in this moment. And then it’s. What’s funny is that they see so many students, so you. You’re shocked when they remember you. Or if you reach out, they’re like, oh, of course I can help you do this, that, and the third. [00:59:18] Or of course I would recommend this course of Course, I can give you advice on this. So I was grateful for that. But I didn’t. Like I said, while I was a student, I didn’t use my resources how I could have or how I should have, because I didn’t. I didn’t know how to ask for help, if that makes sense.

Nick Mays [00:59:41] You, you were part of the curly connections.

Leonna Riley [00:59:45] Curly connection? Yes.

Nick Mays [00:59:47] Organization, Student organization that celebrated natural hair and identity. Can you talk about that experience and why it mattered to you?

Leonna Riley [00:59:58] I think that was when I told you. Like, that’s when my identity became clear of just not even just being a black woman in America, but really just it helped me reground myself in my faith because that was what I was acting on by applying for the role of secretary or. I don’t know if I applied to be the secretary or a social media person. Regardless, it allowed me to create a safe space for the women in the executive group and then also a safe place for women and men on the. In the setting of hosting different types of events that were for us, hosted by us.

Nick Mays [01:00:52] Did you enjoy that?

Leonna Riley [01:00:54] Yeah, I did. It was very fun. Very fun. Very eye opening to even more communication styles and how, you know, everybody is a different person, everybody comes from different backgrounds. So some, like our values may not be the same. So that might impact how we communicate with each other. So it was just another learning experience.

Nick Mays [01:01:16] In what ways did this organization provide a service to the student body?

Leonna Riley [01:01:22] So we would host events like teaching people how to care for their hair. We would make hair masks, we would do giveaways. Because I think I had mentioned to you, I think the only beauty supply store that we had was Sally’s. So that’s not like your average hair store. So, you know, so they don’t have every single thing that you need. [01:01:44] So we would give out like durags, we give out bonnets, just different things that we know we need. We would make hair oil, make sure that we affirm ourselves. It was a lot of different things that the organization was able to do.

Nick Mays [01:02:01] How, how did you guys attempt to. How did you guys navigate, you know, having, you know, you have black, you have, you have brown, you have variations of black, you have African Americans, you have Africans, you have Latinos. How did you leverage the organization to support that diversity? And were you guys intentional about that or thought about.

Leonna Riley [01:02:34] We were. So we did a lot of different events with our multicultural center so that would host the different cultures. So we got to learn more about each culture all simultaneously representing ours, whether it was an event we hosted or an event we were invited to be a part of. It starts that conversation of, oh, I didn’t know that. Whether it’s like a round table or whether it’s like a panel.

Nick Mays [01:03:10] What sticks out to you the most? And in regards to your experience with that organization?

Leonna Riley [01:03:21] What sticks out to me the most?

Nick Mays [01:03:23] What do you mean in terms of an event, a service?

Leonna Riley [01:03:27] You know, I think what sticks out to me the most right now is that it’s still going on. And that is beautiful. I’m thinking just in reference to, like, how I left school, like, I was home, and in reference to the organization. I was traveling to BG simply just for the organization, because at the time, I was the president, but then also I was overwhelmed, and I just had to stop everything. So in that, the organization ended up getting the back burner, but to see that it stopped, still around and thriving, that is beautiful to me.

Nick Mays [01:04:13] Before we pivot, I want to. I have one more question. How did your time in college. How do you think your time in college and that experience shape who you are now, especially in terms of confidence and leadership?

Leonna Riley [01:04:33] I was about to say that when I think about the experience, it helps me walk boldly because I just took so many different chances. Whether it was going to school, not knowing what I wanted to do, and still doing my best to accept that challenge. Knowing that technically in my household, I would be the first person with a bachelor’s in anything, and knowing that I still want my degree, that’s something that sticks out to me as well. And also. Sorry, my. My mind went blank. You have to repeat the question.

Nick Mays [01:05:24] No, no, no problem. Just. Just thinking about how college or your experience.

Leonna Riley [01:05:29] Oh, I got it. I got it. Okay. So I think about being the youngest of seven, and like I said, just tackling. Tackling on the things I didn’t want to do. Like I keep talking about, I didn’t want to do it, but I was making an attempt and to know that I’ll be getting through it one day, I think that that’s beautiful. But I think about taking my theater class. I think about working amongst groups, working and being okay to sit and listen. I don’t think that sometimes people understand how leadership works. You have to be willing to listen and follow and then be able to lead when people are amongst chaos. So, okay, we’re going to do this. Someone has to be able to say that. And I think that I don’t. I honestly don’t think if I didn’t have that experience, I wouldn’t have taken the acting class. I wouldn’t be able to stick up to my manager from one of my previous jobs just in. In reference to how people communicate. Like we. Like I mentioned before, when your values are different, you talk to people. You can tell in the language how you talk to people. So I had to remind my boss that this is not 1852 and this is not slavery. You can’t really throw. You can’t throw radios at people that are pregnant. You can’t talk to us like we’re three. Three. What is it? Three fifths of a human, Three fourths of a human. Because we’re. We’re human and we’re. We work alongside you. So I don’t like the gossip. That’s something that happens everywhere, not just college or school, but it happens everywhere. So how can I interrupt that? How can I be an interrupter of what people are so used to, whether it’s the chaos or the dysfunction? So it’s, it’s taught me to walk in my boldness. I call it holy boldness, because I don’t think it’s me half the time. Allow the spirit to lead me and I allow myself to be led by the holy spirit. So even just having a outlook on, oh, woe is me. Yeah, I didn’t want to do a lot of the things that I had to do, but I don’t, I don’t take any of it for granted. I actually, just in reference to high school, you know what I said first? I said I hated it. But there’s a duality that comes when I’m able to have loving experiences with people. Like going to one of my classmates, one of my white. My white female classmates. Yoga class, 10 years, almost 10 years now we’ve been out of high school, so it’s definitely shaped me a lot in just reference to my outlook on time, where I spend my time, and also my outlook on how I speak to people and how I represent my family, how I represent myself, how I represent the organization I work for, all of those things. I think when I think about my college experience on a deeper level, definitely has shaped. Shaped a lot of what I’m experiencing now.

Nick Mays [01:08:56] Do you think your loved ones, people close to you recognize this evolution, this bold person now, this expressive person?

Leonna Riley [01:09:09] Yeah. And it’s what the thing is, it’s like, about knowing that it’s. It’s in me, like, for myself, like, not like, oh, you think this highly of me. I didn’t know that. So, like, just knowing, like, oh, you trust what I say, you trust my word. Okay. That holds weight. That’s value. So it’s nice when I hear people, When people come to me, like, privately, and they’re, like, having a private conversation with me about, like, oh, you heard, or, oh, I didn’t know you were so wise, or, oh, I knew. I knew. I knew I should have came to you sooner. I knew I could have came to you. So I think that’s beautiful. But I just try to help people see, like, what do you feel is right? What do you feel is wrong? And how do you move on that? What’s your spirit telling you? I just try to remind people that we’re spiritual beings first, so.

Nick Mays [01:10:18] Well, thank you. Yeah, that very strong, articulate, thoughtful, meaningful response. I want to pivot. I want to talk about your work at East. The East Cleveland Public Library. You said before working there, you’re a patron. You simply love books, enjoyed books. How did that interest evolve. Excuse me. Into working at the East Cleveland Public Library?

Leonna Riley [01:10:58] I don’t know if I said I love books, though, and I only know it’s not something I would say because I’m not, like, an avid reader. I had to learn to enjoy reading. And that’s not something that really happened until I started working there. But, yeah, I was a regular patron. I would come in when I was overwhelmed here, so I would just go there to do what? I started when I was still in school. So that’s funny. That was a while ago. So that was, like, my first time going there is when I was still a student at bgsu, but I was online, so I would go sit in the lobby and then maybe be there for, like, maybe two to three hours and leave. But I was only not secluded. But I never ventured off outside of the lobby, in the restroom, or the Creative Print center because that’s all in the same area. So, yeah, I had to learn how to love a book, and that didn’t happen until I started working there.

Nick Mays [01:12:17] You got a tour for Ms. Cook?

Leonna Riley [01:12:19] I did. I asked for a tour of the library.

Nick Mays [01:12:22] Why?

Leonna Riley [01:12:24] Well, I told you I was only in that one space. This is a whole building. What’s up in here? So. And I didn’t. I’m not like a. I’m always gonna feel the vibe. And it wasn’t that I didn’t feel like I could roam. It was like, I would prefer someone show me. And so she did.

Nick Mays [01:12:46] What’d you think? After the tour.

Leonna Riley [01:12:50] I was like, oh, my gosh. I didn’t know. I didn’t even know this building was this big. And also, You Know, I got to. She introduced me to everybody. I was like, I didn’t even know this many people worked here. So it was nice, it was informative. That led me to coming back to speak. I was able to facilitate a natural hair conversation.

Nick Mays [01:13:17] A symposium. I was gonna ask you about that.

Leonna Riley [01:13:19] Oh, yes. She. She had told me she was hosting a natural hair symposium. And I remember, like, oh, my gosh, do I need to make a presentation? I don’t wanna do that. Why did I say yes to this? I just remember going back and forth. But I just facilitated the conversation. No presentation shared my experience, and we were able to have a conversation. It was maybe like seven or ten people.

Nick Mays [01:13:43] Do you think it was more impactful that you didn’t have, like, a formal presentation, just kind of facilitated a discussion?

Leonna Riley [01:13:51] Sure. I don’t. I don’t know, because I still see some of the women that I met and they’re like, oh, yeah. Because I have to tell them some of our patrons are older. So, no, they’re not going to remember you just because they know your face. They probably thought, oh, you’ve been working here. But it’s like, no, we met at the natural hair symposium. So I remember having to share that with people. And I’m like, oh, yeah. And they would. They would just reference, like, I still can’t get my hair like yours. But one of the things I had mentioned is that we each have our individual hair texture. Yes, our hair textures are similar, but just as we are different, so is our hair. And that is what I mentioned earlier in reference to our identities being attached to our hair. It’s kind of like system of us. So as I’m learning how to take care of this, I’m learning how to take care of me, or I’m learning how to accept me and who I am. That is something that I talked about in the symposium.

Nick Mays [01:14:56] Can you unpack that a little bit? How. How is our identities tied to our hair?

Leonna Riley [01:15:04] I guess you could say I.

Nick Mays [01:15:05] Mean, I’m not challenging you. I just. I never know.

Leonna Riley [01:15:10] I understand. Well, you have to think about you talking about, like, our roots, like, our hair has history. And even just today, knowing that something like the Crown act exists because of what people experience over there, over our, excuse me, hair being politicized or discriminated against when it’s. It’s supposed to just be hair, but it’s always been more than that, whether it’s been used. I’ve seen videos of our hair being used for furniture. I’ve seen, of course, our hair Being used as maps for, I guess. And you would know more of that than I would. But more specifically, I know that people would make, like, certain designs in our hair during slavery, and they would navigate that like a map, navigate our scalps as a map. They would put food, rice in our hair because you have to have something to eat. Whatever the case may be or whatever. Not the case, but whatever our experience has been, it’s always been like. It coincides with the idea that our hair defies gravity or with the fact that our hair defies gravity. And so that I referenced that as a black woman, and I’m. I’m not trying to be deep, but it’s like there’s always going to be someone or something in this life that’s going to oppose me and who I am. Our hair naturally, is going to defy that. And so how do I do that as well? Got me.

Nick Mays [01:17:01] Absolutely.

Leonna Riley [01:17:02] Okay.

Nick Mays [01:17:03] Well said. Well, and thank you for that. Another kind of more intellectual question, because you have the, the breath and the capacity to do it. And I really appreciate this in this engagement. And while I’m capturing your story, I’m also just learning from your humanity. Have you ever heard of the phenomenon or the theory of double consciousness?

Leonna Riley [01:17:44] Yes, but remind me of what it is.

Nick Mays [01:17:47] So, yeah, it’s a. It’s a theory that was authored by Dr. W.E.B. du Bois.

Leonna Riley [01:17:57] Okay.

Nick Mays [01:17:57] And it’s in this idea that because of the black experience, from slavery to Jim Crow in America, that African Americans will have two lenses in which they kind of navigate life. Right. One through their own experience, and then one in which white people look at black people. Or African Americans. And so young people today would. [01:18:31] Would say like a code switch, but. But essentially, like, you know, when you’re with your. Your black family in the backyard, you’re barbecuing, or you just with your, you know, black folks and you are, you know Your true self. But then as soon as the cops stop you, or as soon as you go in front of the judge, or as soon as you go to work and you work in predominantly with white people, there’s a kind of transformation that takes place because you’re responding to how they look at you.

Leonna Riley [01:19:11] Yeah, I can see that you did.

Nick Mays [01:19:15] Do you think there’s any truth to that?

Leonna Riley [01:19:17] Absolutely.

Nick Mays [01:19:19] Do you do that?

Leonna Riley [01:19:21] I used to. So now I challenge myself. How can I be my whole self, no matter where I am? That is why when I worked at. I used to work at Dillard’s. That is Why? I found it important to talk to my lead. You are the executive manager. If people are talking behind your back, I don’t like that you’re my leader. I’m supposed to come to you for sales questions. I shouldn’t be coming to you about your microaggressions or your. The natural prejudice you have. Like, he would say stuff like, oh, I didn’t know you could work, or I didn’t know you were a hard worker, whatever he would say. But it’s like, what. Why wouldn’t. Why wouldn’t I be able to work hard? But there’s like, that. You’re referencing this idea that black people are lazy, that I’m just here to make money, which, of course, I’m here to make money, but I’m also here to learn. So. And I’m not the average stereotype or stereotypical person that you think I am. And so how can I combat that and interrupt? Remember I talked about interrupting? So. Because the. With double consciousness or code switching, it’s like, I shouldn’t have to do that. I remember working at a call center, and they used to make one of my black co workers change his name to Daniel. And it’s crazy because I don’t. Now I don’t even remember his actual name. Isn’t that crazy?

Nick Mays [01:20:56] So, well. For the boys, it wasn’t. It didn’t even. It wasn’t purposeful or even intentional. For him, it was a act of survival.

Leonna Riley [01:21:12] Yeah, I can see that.

Nick Mays [01:21:15] And so it’s like, you know, just using, you know, police being stopped. You want to survive. You want to communicate to the police that you’re not.

Leonna Riley [01:21:26] Want my heart to come back to my chest, right? Yeah.

Nick Mays [01:21:29] You want to communicate. Communicate to them that you’re not a threat based on how you perceive. They see your people or see you. So you’re doing everything and anything to communicate that. So it’s more like a form of survival. Just like job. You want to keep your job, you want to be respected, you know, you want to get raises.

Leonna Riley [01:21:50] Yeah.

Nick Mays [01:21:51] So. But anyways, okay, I digress there. But that’s.

Leonna Riley [01:21:55] I challenged myself to. And this is me. I challenged myself to live and not try and survive. Now I’ve recently. So I don’t think. I don’t know if I told you on the phone, but my license are suspended right now, and that was because of a bad interaction with the police officer. Now, was I speeding? Yes. Yes, I was. However, the interaction that I had did not have to happen. I Was temporarily detained for asking him. He told me that I asked him to turn his flashlight off. But what I did ask him was to turn his flashlight so that I could see in my purse. And so now was this me living or was this me just standing firm on. [01:22:59] There’s not an absolute reason why I’m in the back of a police car right now. You said I asked you to turn your flashlight off. I did not. I couldn’t see, so I was asking you to put it on my purse. Two completely different things. And so while it was just me and him, I’m saying, what’s your name? [01:23:18] I’m uncomfortable. I’m confused. So I’m letting my experience be known because I don’t have to just shut up and be quiet now. Yes, that is. That’s not safe in that type of setting. But I just think about, like, okay, I’m not worried about surviving, because if it’s my time, it’s my time. I’m gonna live, if that makes sense. I want to live no matter what people think I should act like or whatever the case may be. But I think that there’s a. Like, you saying it is natural to not. Not necessarily step on toes, but to just be mindful. I think is. Like, you’re saying that consciousness. Because I think it does happen. It does happen naturally. Especially being raised in the type of settings that I was raised in. This is. It is what it is. But how can I. How can that. How can I break that off of me, that survival mentality? Because I don’t have to survive just because I don’t want them to feel away. They need to be trying to figure something out. Please. So, yeah, that’s my. I just try to make sure that I’m. I’m never going to. I guess you could say kiss butt anymore. And not to say that that is what people do, but in a sense, that that is what we were molded to do, Whether it was just us walking on the. Like, my grandmother, she was like, we used to have to cross the street. I’m not doing that. Walk around, say, excuse me. I want to take up space, just like you want to take up space. So how can I. How can I. How can I do that if I’m. You know, I need to be my whole self, not just half or a little piece. And that. That. That matters to me in. In all areas. Not just an area of work or the police or relationships. It matters. Matters everywhere.

Nick Mays [01:25:50] Wow. Thank you. I wanted to ask you about working at the library. Do you enjoy working at the East Cleveland Public Library?

Leonna Riley [01:26:00] I do. You’ve heard all. Like you said, you’ve heard all the things I didn’t want to do. Working at the library is one of the things that kind of opened up for me, and I was like, oh, I do want to do this. I would love to be able to say I’ve worked at the library, let alone, I don’t know the proper term. It’s a historical building, so why wouldn’t I want to work there? I even said that in my interview. But, yeah, I loved the idea of leaving a unhealthy workplace or work environment to a healthier one. That is. That is why I made that switch.

Nick Mays [01:27:08] What do you enjoy, like, in. Specifically in terms of programming or just taking care of the patrons? What do you enjoy mostly about working there?

Leonna Riley [01:27:24] I consider myself a sponge, so I enjoy learning. I’ve never worked with the predominantly all black staff, so that’s new. All of my bosses are African American, and that’s something that I’ve been able to appreciate. And also, just look at. Look at us as humans, like, okay, these are black leaders. How do they show up? [01:27:56] How do they prove, okay, people can hold these types of roles in. In East Cleveland because you have to think it’s not. People don’t talk about East Cleveland being able to, I guess you could say on a leadership level, get on its feet. Seems like there’s always an issue with leadership. And so in the heart of East Cleveland or in the middle of East Cleveland, Cleveland, you have these black people with the East Cleveland experience, going to Shaw, knowing people since grade school, still working alongside them and building those relationships with, whether it’s with the board members or the patrons. It’s really beautiful. So it’s nice. I’m enjoying working in that space and learning from the people that I get to work alongside and the people that I work under. And that’s something I’m. That’s, like, my favorite part of working there.

Nick Mays [01:29:01] You said that the East Cleveland Public Library is a space where you, quote, “learned me.” What does that mean to you? What does that phrase mean?

Leonna Riley [01:29:14] I’m learning more about myself, but also learning more about, like I mentioned, just black leadership and walking in black excellence. Not to say the library is perfect or my job is perfect. I’m a circulation assistant. I don’t know people that wake up and say that’s what they want to do for the rest of their life. I doubt it, but it’s a. I look at it as an opportunity I. I couldn’t pass up because I felt like the Lord placed it in front of me. So there must be something I’m supposed to be learning here, whether it’s more about myself or more about just how to work with people in general.

Nick Mays [01:30:03] What kind of kinds of impact do you hope to make on East Cleveland residents through your work at the East Cleveland Public Library? And I don’t have it here. But you talked about helping people navigate not language, but, like, articulate themselves or have. Or own their own perspective and have. And see things in different ways.

Leonna Riley [01:30:39] Oh, like the power of perception.

Nick Mays [01:30:41] Yeah. Yeah. Can you. You said that you like to help people do that to get to reach a place.

Leonna Riley [01:30:51] Yeah. So I think about how you have patrons, all different kinds come in. So you have people that don’t know how to read. You have people that do. The demographic is very. So wide spectrum, but it’s also very specific in what the people need. And so how can I be an example to the people I work alongside or the people that’s waiting in line like, okay, I’m going to be kind. I’m going to have patience, and we’re going to help them so they can leave out of here with what they need. Of course, if I’m able to. Now, we do have policies in place that keep us from overstepping boundaries for people to, you know, know we are grown. So you do have to figure out certain things on your own. But also, if there’s a way I can help you, how can I help you? While simultaneously you are learning something, whether it’s, oh, okay, there are kind people in the world still, or whether it’s, oh, they didn’t even have to do that, but they still did. And then also helping my partners or my colleagues exercise that same patience that we expect if we go to a facility or if we go to a business or an organization and we need assistance, that there’s power in understanding everyone is not where you are mentally and knowing that you do have the power to change people’s minds. But it just starts with that interaction. You don’t have to change their mind in a day. You just have to plant a seed. And that seed is kindness and patience.

Nick Mays [01:32:42] Moving on. You talked about sometimes having to answer whether you’re really from East Cleveland or at least think about it. Do you. How do you answer that question now?

Leonna Riley [01:33:01] Now, how do I answer it? I say I’m really from East Cleveland. I mean, I live here now, so it’s my address. I claim it. And I don’t let. Now I can say, like, yeah, I’m from East Cleveland, and I know, and I’m not joking now you know.

Nick Mays [01:33:18] So has it become a part of your real identity other than the address. Or your consciousness?

Leonna Riley [01:33:28] I would say so. I would say that. I would say yes, but on the. On the opposite end of that, if my yes is really a yes, I think that I would be making a better effort to do more, but also one day at a time. But I would. I would say yes, but also there’s more that I could be doing to make sure that people know I do care about this city. Outside of just working at the library.

Nick Mays [01:34:08] Whenlooking around to your neighborhood, your own neighborhood, but the East Cleveland in general, does anything give you a sense of belonging or pride. Or pride?

Leonna Riley [01:34:27] Yeah, it’s still that family. When I’m riding and I see my family on the porch because, like, my aunt still lives in this city, my dad’s friends still live in the city. My dad’s. One of my dad’s closest friends was just in the library today. So that, like I said, I’m a very family oriented person. So that if I’m riding home, my siblings live two houses down, they’re on the porch. That gives me a sense of pride. Like, this is ours, allegedly, when you’re riding. See, remember I was telling you, I’m by way of. So like, my brother grew up here, my parents grew up here, so I’m by way of them.

Nick Mays [01:35:14] So you have siblings who live in East Cleveland?

Leonna Riley [01:35:17] Yes, I have two siblings that live two houses down.

Nick Mays [01:35:20] Oh, is that property owned by my parents? Okay, How much property does your parents own or how many?

Leonna Riley [01:35:32] At least maybe three. I guess you could say properties are like, including, like some lots.

Nick Mays [01:35:41] Were your parents entrepreneurs as well?

Leonna Riley [01:35:44] Yeah, my dad owns his own trucking company called Riley’s Transportation.

Nick Mays [01:35:54] Did you ever work for the family business?

Leonna Riley [01:35:58] No, but I’m open to it.

Nick Mays [01:36:02] How long have your parents been entrepreneurs?

Leonna Riley [01:36:08] I would like to say since before I was born, but I don’t know when my dad started his company.

Nick Mays [01:36:15] Are the businesses rooted or exist in East Cleveland?

Leonna Riley [01:36:24] I don’t think. I think that because he owns a lot where he has to park the trucks, so I don’t know if that’s considered East Cleveland or Cleveland, but it’s in between Euclid and East Cleveland. So I don’t know if that’s East Cleveland or Cleveland.

Nick Mays [01:36:40] And what about the homes? Are all the homes in East Cleveland or are there small ones in Euclid as well?

Leonna Riley [01:36:45] They live in Euclid, but the homes. The homes that they purchased or the land even, that’s all in East Cleveland.

Nick Mays [01:36:55] Were you ever inspired to be an entrepreneur?

Leonna Riley [01:37:00] Yes. Yes, I was inspired by my father. I would love to. I used to ask as a kid for him to teach me how to drive a truck, but he wanted me to learn the business aspect of it, which is why I wanted to major. Another reason why I wanted to major in business.

Nick Mays [01:37:29] How much of your family or close friends of the family live in East Cleveland?

Leonna Riley [01:37:38] Maybe like, I guess as low as, like, 20%. My dad’s sister, my God mom, my siblings, my cousins. Yeah.

Nick Mays [01:37:56] Moving forward. As someone in her 20s, what do you hope for East Cleveland in the next decade? In the next 10 years, what do you want to see for the city of East Clare?

Leonna Riley [01:38:24] A lot of our. Our town hall meetings are hosted at the library. Some of them not a lot, but some of them are. I remember someone, like, standing up and saying, like, you know, the goal is never just to hear grievances. It’s also to hear solutions to certain things. And I would hope that there could be a solution to, like, the drug abuse, the prostitution and the alcoholism. And I mean, even I don’t. I mean, is it bad? I don’t know. But I mean, working in a public facility, you do see a lot of homeless people. So we have our regulars that come in that know that this is a safe space. So what. What, what. What can we do as people or what can we do as a city for. For that to shift and to. Not. Not to say it will never be a thing, because I’m sure it will always be something or, you know, people will always be addicted to something, unfortunately. But I think that that is something that I would. I would like to see a solution to that specific issue of drug abuse, prostitution, and alcoholism, because those are kind of like those three things that will suck a person dry. So if it’s sucking a city dry, then, you know, has to be a shift in that area.

Nick Mays [01:39:51] What role do you see the library having in the lives of the residents outside of just checking out books or even printing out a bunch of services? You guys have great program and services. Do you think that the library has because of the lack of services and because of the decline and the crises and not having a lot of nonprofits and institutions that normally support people. Do you see the East Cleveland Public Library playing an expanded role beyond what we know, libraries, the function of libraries, or have you ever thought about that?

Leonna Riley [01:40:47] Yeah. How could you not think about it? I mean, in a city where. Well, just in a city in general, like, I’m just thinking about what the Euclid Public Library was to me, and it is. Yes, they’re both libraries, but the impact is different. I don’t even remember why we would go to the library outside of checking out movies and books or just getting on the computer. Whereas, yes, that is what some people do now when they come to the East Cleveland Public Library. But Euclid doesn’t have to have their town hall meetings at the library. We don’t have to have a. We didn’t have to host city things inside the library. There was a city hall for that and a building and a nice police station that, you know, I didn’t even know it was that big till recently. And you just. I just can see, like. I guess you could say like this. The structure of the East Cleveland Public Library. Those bones are different than the bone structure of our City Hall. City hall is more fragile, whereas the East Cleveland Public Library is like a firm foundation, if that makes sense. [01:42:27] And you can just tell by the people they hire, by the services they offer or the resources they offer, and by it literally being a safe place. Place. So I think about when we have conversations where people say, oh, this is a safe space. What does that mean when. When this building is the safe space for the city? I think that that holds a lot of weight. And I’m not sure if people acknowledge it. I’m not sure, Like, I genuinely don’t know if people acknowledge it, how they could or should. So, yeah, I think that the East Cleveland Public Library is rightfully, rightfully a building that brings people together on a daily basis, but also offers that safe space that you don’t get if you go to City Hall.

Nick Mays [01:43:24] There’s revitalization efforts. Development is external institutions and money coming into East Cleveland. For example, you have the Circle east project, and there’s other development initiatives. What is your thoughts on that? Do you support the revitalization efforts and the external support? 

Leonna Riley [01:43:54] Yes, but also that you have to work from the inside out.

Nick Mays [01:44:01] Elaborate, elaborate.

Leonna Riley [01:44:07] Now, you can tell me about Circle East, but I don’t. I’ve never done my own research. They’ve even hosted things in the library. But from what I’ve seen they’re on the outskirts of East Cleveland. They’re they’re coming in, not getting in, if that makes sense, and then spreading it, if that. I don’t, I don’t know how else to.

Nick Mays [01:44:34] I think you’re articulating quite well.

Leonna Riley [01:44:36] So. Yeah, it’s like even just an example of being able to. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the. I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t have any outside knowledge of what they’re doing outside of what I’ve heard, which is just as much as what you said, that they’re coming in to try and redevelop. [01:45:04] Yes.

Nick Mays [01:45:04] Neighborhood houses.

Leonna Riley [01:45:07] But, like, where are people really? Like, how do you start? From the outskirts, you know, like, why not start in it? But I guess you have to also start somewhere.

Nick Mays [01:45:21] So you were getting at something earlier. You said that. And I took it as what people. What many of the participants talked about, and that was like a responsible development or responsible revitalization. And that’s, you know, a notion in which, like, the, the folks of East Cleveland are at the table.

Leonna Riley [01:45:46] Right.

Nick Mays [01:45:48] I think you were getting at that.

Leonna Riley [01:45:51] Yeah, yeah, sure.

Nick Mays [01:45:53] I don’t want to speak. I definitely don’t want to speak for you.

Leonna Riley [01:45:57] No, I just want.

Nick Mays [01:45:58] What do you think about that?

Leonna Riley [01:46:02] I think about, like, people. People like my grandmother, she blames us for, and I mean us as in African Americans. She’ll say. She’ll say the N word with the hard R. She’ll say that she’s like, the reason why the city looks like this and is like, this is because of us. But then you, when you educate yourself and you, you know, you learn our history is like, might be because of us, but how do we get here? And so I do think it’s important, like you said, to have a seat at the table, but really just to be considered. Like, when you, when you see certain things that take place. Like, This is literally from the outside looking in. If I’m coming from Cleveland Clinic or, uh, or case that area, I see construction there. But when I’m driving down, farther down Euclid and I’m in the middle of it, I don’t see nothing but what I. But what I mentioned, which is the alcohol, the alcoholism, the prostitution and the drinking or the drugs. So it’s like, I’ve seen drug deals on my drive to work. I’ve seen people think I’m trying to stop them. No, I’m driving straight. Or I’ve seen people coming out of Nemo’s like, you know, or somewhere Asleep. And it’s like, how could we. I get throwing money at an issue because you have to have money. But I think that it’s also important that we. Where you’re sending it and how you’re using it. The houses are nice.

Leonna Riley [01:47:58] Are those houses for the people that I see walking down the street? Are those rehabilitation homes? Who knows? I don’t know. I don’t have that information. But I’m just saying do you feel.

Nick Mays [01:48:11] Do you feel Hopeful about the direction of East Cleveland, and are hopeful that East Cleveland would evolve and become at least somewhat what it once was?

Leonna Riley [01:48:34] I can be hopeful, but sometimes you get discouraged. For example, some driving home on my 30 minute lunch break and I pull in my driveway now with the flat tire because I just hit a pothole on my way home. Now I can’t get back to work. It could be very discouraging, naturally. But I try not to let experiences like that deter me from having hope and also being a part of the reason why people should, should have hope. So still made it back to work. You know, everything happens for a reason. My sister was home. She ended up taking me back on my lunch. So it’s, there’s a lot of different things that can make me discouraged. Because I am young, I don’t have to stay here. And that was my thought when I got that flat tire on my 30 minute lunch break. [01:49:27] I don’t, you know, I don’t have to stay here my whole life. I can leave. And that’s, I mean that’s just like, you know, people like, oh, if you’re thinking about moving out of state, you should do it. But sometimes there’s a reason why people stay. Whether it’s to take care of a loved one or whether it’s to help revitalize their community. Now I’m blessed to be able to do both.

Nick Mays [01:49:52] You know, I didn’t ask you briefly, do you remember any businesses in these clinical. Even growing up teenager, even young twenties that may be here or not here? No longer here.

Leonna Riley [01:50:08] Really. The places I can think of are the places that are not here. Save More. They used to be around the corner. I used to hate that grocery store. It smelled so bad. And then stores that are still here, like more so restaurants which would be like Angela, Mia and Kim’s.

Nick Mays [01:50:36] Any, any black owned business.

Leonna Riley [01:50:38] Yeah, there’s actually a dry cleaners that my dad goes to right here on Hayden. I think it’s called satellite.

Nick Mays [01:50:48] What Any black owned businesses that was here in the past?

Leonna Riley [01:50:54] Yeah, that’s they’ve seen my dad grow up. So it was owned by I must I assume it was a husband and wife and now their daughter is the main one that runs it. But whenever I have like a button that goes missing or like something wrong with like a coat, I make sure I take it to them. And I’m sure my dad has like this never ending tab because he has so many clothes. But he makes sure he doesn’t go out to like Mayfield or Cleveland Heights. He comes where he grew up at. So that’s important.

Nick Mays [01:51:29] Can you. Do you know at least what decade your grandparents moved to East Cleveland?

Leonna Riley [01:51:36] No, sorry.

Nick Mays [01:51:43] What do you want your peers and these are wrap up questions questions. What do you want your peers or the next generation after you to remember about. About growing up in East Cleveland or remember about East Cleveland that you grew up in? I’m sorry.

Leonna Riley [01:52:14] I would say in reference to like what I care about is the perception shift. So like when you’re interacting with people, have a heart. If everybody doesn’t have the same experiences, be open to hear about them, be open to learn, be open to maybe your, your mind being expanded in different ways just based off of a hello, how you doing? And somebody telling you I ain’t doing good. Because that’s what you get here. You get people who gonna tell you. Then it’s not gonna be a generic, oh, I’m good, how are you? People will tell you if they’re having a bad day, not to impact you so you can have a bad day, but so you can know, no, I’m actually not doing good. And I want you to care. I want someone to care because I care. So I think I would want the next generation to just be mindful and to make sure we exercise our love for humanity in all aspects, not just for ourselves.

Nick Mays [01:53:18] When you look at the news, you look at the political discourse and even scholarship, a great percentage, at least 90% of it, is ominous negative about East Cleveland. When you think about the political discourse, even media news and even scholarship about East Cleveland, A good percentage, 90% and over, is really focused on decline or blight or political crises and policing. Are you conscious of that and awareness? And if you are, how does that make you feel? And then part B. What do you think are some misconceptions about East Haven?

Leonna Riley [01:54:17] I am conscious of them. And what is going on? I would say that is one of the reasons why I said yes. I would say East Cleveland has shaped my identity and I would consider it a piece of me now. That’s why I say I could do more, how could I do more to show up for the community? How could I do more to show up for? I mean it’s really not necessarily myself, but for the next generation or for my peers. I don’t see too many 20 something year olds in East Cleveland. Not unless they are not necessarily struggling. But like I said, they want to get out, no one wants to stay. So I think about that and I am conscious of it. So in reference to you said part B was what.

Nick Mays [01:55:12] Are any missed misconceptions about East Cleveland?

Leonna Riley [01:55:16] Yeah, so I think that the misconception is like, and I think I mentioned this on the phone when we talked. It’s like sometimes people talk about East Cleveland as if there’s not real people here. That’s not fair because we are. Whether it’s a 99 year old lady or a 27 year old young lady, so it’s. Or a 2 year old or a 3 year old, however old, there’s still people here, there’s still people having real experiences of destructive behavior, trying to learn how to be restored or be restorative. Is that a word? Or restorative, like how to, how can they help restore something that people throw dirt on consciously? And I think a misconception is that there aren’t people here that want to help solve the problems that might be very deeply rooted and that there’s not youth here, there’s youth here.

Nick Mays [01:56:31] And then finally, this is a legacy question. When people look back at this period of your life, right now, in your 20s, in East Cleveland’s history, in your history, what do you hope your story, your contribution will represent in the history books of East Cleveland?

Leonna Riley [01:57:03] I think that, you know, I’m just one person, or not just, but I am one person. So I’m a person that has to consistently remind people to slow down. I think that naturally we want the cars, we want the clothes, we want these titles. But what’s it all really mean if I don’t have genuine relationships with people to share it with or if I one don’t even need it. So I think that if this was a history book, I would be like a representation of what it means to take time to be still and to nourish important to myself before I can do what anyone wants me to do, any or do something, do anything that someone else wants me to do, whether it’s my parents, whether it’s my family, whether it’s my job, whatever the case may be. How can I serve myself so I can serve my neighbor? Serve my community better.

Nick Mays [01:58:15] Well, Ms. Riley, thank you for sharing your story and participating in this oral history project.

Creative Commons License

Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License.

Additional Files
757017 Leonna Riley.mp3 (111047 kB)
757017 Leonna Riley.txt (85 kB)
757017 Leonna Riley.vtt (136 kB)
Download

Share

COinS