Abstract
Peg Bobel has been an advocate for Cuyahoga Valley National Park for half a century. She played a role in park establishment by gathering signatures of support in the early 1970s. From 1989-2001, she served as the executive director of the Cuyahoga Valley Association (CVA), the park friends' group (now called the Conservancy for Cuyahoga Valley National Park). Under her leadership, the organization saw membership growth, helped create Cuyahoga Valley Environmental Education Center, and funded many projects – from the arts to junior ranger programming. This interview was conducted over several sessions in February and March of 2022.
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Interviewee
Bobel, Peg (interviewee)
Interviewer
Jones Macko, Rebecca (interviewer); Schnack, Erich (interviewer)
Project
Cuyahoga Valley National Park
Date
2-4-2022
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
96 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Peg Bobel interview, 2022" (2022). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 343006.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1443
Transcript
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:00:00] So I am going to just go right into business. Today is February 24, 2022. This is Rebecca Jones with Erich Schnack, also on the line. And today we are interviewing Peg Bobel.
Peg Bobel [00:00:17] Thank you, Rebecca.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:00:19] Well, just for history there. So in all the times I’ve seen you in the park and all the work that I know that you’ve done and stuff, I don’t think we’ve ever, I’m not aware of capturing your story. So can you start off by telling us a little bit about your background?
Peg Bobel [00:00:40] Yeah, yeah, I sure can. And let me say, first of all, I am so glad you’re doing this oral history project. It’s just really important to do that. And I was thinking today it’s important to catch people’s stories because you can have the written record of, you know, what happened when, but the individual stories sort of give it some meat. [00:01:05]
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:01:04] Mm-hmm. Yes, yes.
Peg Bobel [00:01:07] Anyway, so, yeah, so, gosh, my involvement in the park goes back to pre park day. So I guess I should let you know, like, I am pretty much a lifelong resident of Akron. I was born in Akron, then my folks moved to Cuyahoga Falls. So I graduated from high school there, came back to Akron. I went off to college, Heidelberg College in Tiffin, Ohio. And then I got a job back in Akron and moved to apartment in Akron. So. And my profession at that point in time, I actually, I now too have a master’s degree in social work. So my profession was being a public assistant, social worker, and then later on being a medical, worked in a hospital, rehab hospital as a social worker. So it’s, I didn’t come into this from my profession so much, but, you know, from an avocational interest in the park. Do you want me to launch into the sort of the early park involvement or do you have a-
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:02:25] I have the questions. So what, what experiences early on led you to involvement with advocacy for the environment, for the park?
Peg Bobel [00:02:36] Okay. I think the- Boy, the simplest explanation would be in that, in that first job that I had in Akron, and this is going back 1969, I had some good friends at the, it was the welfare department at the time is what it was called. And one of my very good friends really loved the outdoors, as did I. And I’ve always with my family and all, we always enjoyed hiking. In fact, we went to Virginia Kendall a lot as a family when it was a metro park, you know, so back in the ’50s and ’60s. But anyway, my friend that I was working with heard that Walter Shepp, who was with Akron U at the time was going to create a chapter of the Sierra Club. So there was no local chapter at the time. There was probably a state chapter, I’m not sure. But there. I’m sorry, I shouldn’t call it a chapter. There was- There’s a state chapter and then there’s local groups. And Walter started the Portage Trail group of the Sierra Club. And my friend and I went to that first, his- The first meetings that Walter had. And right away the Sierra Club took on the national park advocacy as really their main mission at the time. So this was just pre park. So I remember working a little bit on behalf of John Seiberling to get him elected to Congress in ’71 and- Or I guess he got elected in ’70. So ’71 he started. And one of his first things, of course, was to propose the national park or national recreation area. And so Sierra Club jumped in to be the, you know, the public support for the idea of creating a national park. So that’s kind of where that got started.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:04:56] Wow. So I want to back up and capture- You said you studied social work in college. Was that the University of Action? Akron. Sorry! Yes, University of Action!
Peg Bobel [00:05:14] [laughs] No, I have my undergraduate degree from Heidelberg University and then I got a master’s at Case Western in Cleveland.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:05:24] So the undergraduate was in social work and the master’s was in-
Peg Bobel [00:05:29] It’s Social Work. At that time they called it a master’s of Social Science Administration, but they’ve now changed it to a master’s in Social Work. And that’s essentially what it is and was.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:05:42] Okay. So early on, did anyone special influence your career path?
Peg Bobel [00:05:52] Probably my mother. Yeah. Because I didn’t know it at the time, but years later she said, I always hoped you’d be a social worker because she had, she had a difficult young life and I know that she was helped by people in social service-type settings. She, interestingly enough, her, her mother, my. My grandmother, my mom’s mother died when my mother was not quite two years old. And her mother died in the flu epidemic. So, you know, so I sort of grew up knowing about epidemics.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:06:44] Wow, timely. Sorry, I think I- So you also mentioned just a few moments ago that you got involved with the Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area, as it was known then, through the Sierra Club. So that was pre park. So about when was that?
Peg Bobel [00:07:09] Well, I would say, I’d say ’72, ’73. I remember, like through the Sierra Club, we would be out in public places having people sign petitions on behalf of supporting Seiberling’s bills and you know, I’d have to look back, but he had, you know, he submitted a bill in one session of Congress that never passed, and then he submitted again a second time. So I don’t remember which one, you know, or which ones we would have been involved in, but we were like the people out there getting folks to sign, you know, petitions on behalf of supporting the park bill and writing letters and, you know, doing all that kind of advocacy.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:08:10] So at some point you became involved with the Cuyahoga Valley Association. How, how did that, how did that morph from the Sierra Club into working with the Cuyahoga Valley Association?
Peg Bobel [00:08:28] Well, there were intervening years.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:08:32] Yes. So how did that morph for you? Tell us about that time?
Peg Bobel [00:08:36] Okay, let me think about that. Okay. I think, I think. Okay. The direct connection would be going from volunteering for the park to finding out I had an opportunity to, to work in the park in some fashion. So, and of course, Rob plays into this a lot too. Okay. I was thinking about this, that you talk about something being a labor of love, and this truly has been a labor of love because once we got to know each other through the Sierra Club, by the way. Okay. Because he was the chairperson of the Northeast Ohio group in Cleveland and I was the chairperson of the, the Portage Trail Group in Akron. This is, this is now going into the late 70s. Okay, okay. And, and he, and he and I actually met at a, a conference in Roanoke, Virginia that was aimed at saving wilderness areas. So it was a Sierra Club and Wilderness Society joint conference that we went to and we got interested in each other at that conference. So coming back home, gosh, I can’t even remember the order in which things go, but we got both, being in the Sierra Club, we were already doing, you know, stuff park-related. And then in the early ’80s, I’d have to look back and see. Do you, do you remember or do you know that there was a, an advisory commission for the, for the park, for Cuyahoga Valley, and it, I think it had two five year terms or two ten year terms, I don’t remember. Do you know about that whole advisory commission years?
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:10:51] I’ve read about it, so. But it’s been a long time since I’ve read through the history in the green shrouded murals.
Peg Bobel [00:11:02] Yes, yes, yes, yes. That’s where it would all be. Well, as a project that came out of that commission was the Ad hoc. What was it called? The Ad Hoc Trails Committee. And it was led by Janet Hutchison, who’s just an amazing, Was amazing woman. So right away, Rob and I volunteered to be on that because that was, you know, when they invited the public to be on these subcommittees that would explore every inch of the park and come back with recommendations for a trail plan because, you know, at that point there was the only trails were the trails that the park had inherited from the Metro Park. So they called for this ad hoc trails committee. Rob and I volunteered for was actually out of that that we created the Cuyahoga Valley Trails Council. And I was still working in social work during all those years. So that takes through the ’80s. And then I left my job at the hospital, I think, in ’88, and I was being on the, with the Trails Council and all. And we were members of what was the Cuyahoga Valley Association existed, but it didn’t have much in the way of staff or anything. We were members. So we would go to the annual meetings and everything. And I got wind of the fact that they wanted to sort of reinvigorate the organization and hire an executive director. And I don’t remember why Christine Freitag called me, but she did call me and asked me if I wanted to take that on. So it really was the, you know, that it was moving from a volunteer advocate status to, oh, there’s an opportunity to actually be employed in an official way to assist this national park. [00:13:16] So I think that’s how that happened. There’s a lot that went on in the ’80s that, if you want to know about, I could tell you about that was really interesting, or we could get right into the CVA years.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:13:40] So how long has CVA been in operation at that point?
Peg Bobel [00:13:43] Well, I think officially, boy, I wrote up that timeline at some point in time, but I think officially it had been around since somewhere in the 60s. And the green shrouded miracle has a good explanation of all this. But Cuyahoga Valley Association was very much centered around Peninsula and Bob Hunker and wanting to preserve the, you know, the rural aspect of the valley and save the Bronson Church, save the history of Peninsula. So it wasn’t specifically focused on creating a national park. And so that’s why somewhere in there, a couple folks in CVA and outside of CVA formed the Cuyahoga Valley Park Federation. That was really the organization that pushed for creating the park. And then once the park was created, the Park Federation dissolved. CVA had still continued. And then it sort of took on then that role of being an advocacy group for the, you know, for the national recreation area. So it had a long, long history. It’s just, you know, its mission morphed a little bit. And then there was a period I always, when I started working there, I always described that it had sort of gone semi dormant. You know, it still existed on paper. It had a board, but it had no hired staff. The Federation did have hired staff and I, I’d have to look back to see when it actually ended. But Sue Klein was very involved in the Federation. But, but then, you know, but CVA, when they hired me, they really, I mean, they didn’t have money. They didn’t, they had members. But it was maybe in the hundreds, I want to say, because we were real proud when we built it up into the, you know, more like the thousands or 8,000. So I know Christine, Christine hired me on to, you know, to start making it a real viable organization.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:16:12] Okay, so you alluded to other things happening in the ’80s. So what else was going on then?
Peg Bobel [00:16:19] Well, you know, this is where, you know, this would all be in the history somewhere. But it was so interesting to live through those times. So, you know, the park gets established, there’s that whole period. There’s no trail plan yet, you know, until 1985, you know, there’s not much in the way of visitor amenities. You’ve got the, the Metroparks hold over. And that’s why it was so confusing to people to, you know, to even grasp the idea that this is now a national park. But like, right away, it was. I even looked this up around. Okay. When Reagan was elected president, he appointed James Watt as- [00:17:10]
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:17:11] Oh, yes.
Peg Bobel [00:17:12] Do you remember that?
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:17:13] Yes, I remember the editorial cartoons when they’d have- And the Department of Interior Secretary is James Watt. And then all the animals in the national parks were going, what?
Peg Bobel [00:17:28] Yes, yes. Oh, there’s gotta be a great collection of cartoons. Well, you know, Chuck Ayers was the political cartoonist for the Beacon at the time. And this cartoon might even be in the Green Shrouded Miracle. But it’s the cartoon where Watt is coming to Cuyahoga Valley. And I forget what it says, like, where’s Cuyahoga Valley? Or whatever. And he’s carrying like a machine gun in a violin case kind of thing because it’s a great cartoon, but, you know, their Cuyahoga Valley was on his hit list.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:18:07] And he’s wearing a pinstripe suit. I have seen that cartoon.
Peg Bobel [00:18:10] Yes, yes, yes, yes. So we, okay, so we knew that Cuyahoga Valley was on his hit list. Seiberling was our congressperson and he was absolutely wonderful to work with. He was the most approachable down earth person. And you know, he would call me here at home. And I’d be, oh, my God, he’s on the phone. You know, it’s like. But he was just so. He so easy to work with, and he was so committed to the park. So again, you know, the. This was before I was working for CVA, so I’m not sure how I know that Sue Klein was involved, Sheridan Steele was involved. But, you know, there was this definite effort, this groundswell of, let’s get the public involved in this. We’ve got to save Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area from being deauthorized. So we, you know, we were involved in that letter writing campaign and whatever. Around the same time, one of the things I remember about Seiberling, so there were, there were. There were certain what I’d call threats. Besides that threat, okay, we on the trails committee were looking at, you know, good places to put trails, and one of our favorites was what we back then called the Greenwood Village area, which was the old Carriage Trail.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:19:51] Carriage Trail, yeah.
Peg Bobel [00:19:53] And it was. It. It. The park did not own it yet. It was inside, mostly inside the boundaries. Part of it was cut off because of the way they drew the boundary lines, but most of it was inside the boundaries. But it was in- It was not owned by the park yet by the park service. And we went out there and we hiked it and all, and we saw these survey stakes that the developer had put up, and we got alarmed and we got in touch with Seiberling. And what I remember was he agreed to meet us out there because what we were saying was, this area is too beautiful to have it be developed full of homes. This has to be. This has to get into the park somehow. So he agreed to meet us out there to hike it and look at it, and he met us there. The only day he could meet us there was on an Easter Sunday.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:20:57] Oh, my.
Peg Bobel [00:20:58] Yeah, so he showed up on Easter Sunday, and I have a picture of him somewhere. He’s in his, you know, his raincoat that he always wore and the little hat that he always wore. He’s like, dressed up like he’s just come from church and we’re hiking around, you know, the. What’s now the old Carriage Trail area. And then he really went to bat for that because the developer had already, you know, put his stakes out and he was ready to go. Elaine Marsh and I went to a, a hearing in Sagamore Hills where the developer, Vit was his last name, was presenting his plans. And I remember raising my hand and saying, Mr. Vit, isn’t that inside the national park. And he was like, yeah, but that doesn’t matter because I own it. All that. So anyway, so it was- It was that sort of thing that was going on. And then also in the ’80s, we had. We started the whole cleanup thing. So Rob and I organized the beaver marsh cleanup and that was like the first of the major cleanup things that Sierra Club did down there. And then Rob and I got married at Happy Days in the middle of all that. And that was before anybody was allowed to get married at Happy Days. But we had friends. Yes. Yeah, so. So that’s what I meant about the ’80s. It was a very active time for. For really stepping up and speaking on behalf of a park that at that point was really seriously threatened by, you know, by Watt and his buddies.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:22:52] Yes, that was the era they developed that one video, Big, Big Park.
Peg Bobel [00:22:59] I don’t think I know that one.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:23:01] Well, it was, it’s on YouTube. Big, Big Park. Because we, you know, we were taking all this land.
Peg Bobel [00:23:11] Yes. Do you remember the name Leonard Stein-Sapir?
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:23:18] S, A, P, I, R. Yes. Why do I remember that name?
Peg Bobel [00:23:21] He’s the one that he owned where the Environmental Ed Center is and-
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:23:27] Yes.
Peg Bobel [00:23:28] Yeah, he was the big mouthpiece for the anti park folks and, you know, he wanted to save the, you know, save his community, blah, blah, blah. But he had subdivided that land so that he could make a good bit of money. And he wasn’t, you know, he wasn’t so sincerely wanting to save his community as he was wanting to make a good buck. [00:23:59]
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:23:59] Yeah, money talks.
Peg Bobel [00:24:01] Yes.
Rebecca Jones Macko So. Yes, well, keep. Yeah, keep rolling. If there’s more in the ’80s.
Peg Bobel [00:24:07] No, I mean, that’s, that’s the highlights, I think.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:24:14] So you got hired as the executive director of the Cuyahoga Valley Association. So what was your role in those early years,
Peg Bobel [00:24:25] Really to, you know, to build the structure and the membership to have a viable. I don’t think we called ourselves a friends organization right away, but that’s basically what, you know, the, the idea was. And there was a lot of discussion about the difference between being a friends organization and being an advocacy organization. Advocacy being a little more, you know, in your face or whatever. You know what I mean? So. So there was a lot of discussion back and forth about that. But. So my office, you may know all of this, so you can stop me if this is all known, but we were allowed to use a room in the homestead, which is up on 303.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:25:20] Yep. The Resource Management Area.
Peg Bobel [00:25:21] Yep. Yes. And my recollection was we had no furniture. So there was a little pink couch that Sue Klein gave us. I remember that pink couch went around to different places after we were no longer using. And I think we just got hand me down stuff, you know. But I was the only person working for CVA at the time. And we brought Andrea Ireland on as my assistant somewhere later. And I’d have to look back and see. But I was part time. And when Andrea came on, I think. I mean, I was hardly ever full time. They- they didn’t have a lot of money, but. But, you know, we developed. So we started to really reach out to build the membership. There were some wonderful, wonderful people on the board. And that’s when you, when you were saying that you were going to do like a women’s oral history thing. Some of these women, you know, are really my. I deeply admire them and I could say, I suppose that they were mentors in a way, but definitely people like Janet Hutchison, who I don’t think was on the CVA board, but she was on that ad hoc. She was on the advisory commission. But Tommy Patty, do you know that name?
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:26:51] I don’t know that one.
Peg Bobel [00:26:53] I don’t know if she is still living. She would be quite old, I think. Tommy was absolutely wonderful. And she’s African American and she was also on the advisory commission representing the Phillis Wheatley Association. So, boy, she would just have an amazing story to tell if she were still around. But she- I remember her. I was trying to learn to do something having to do with the post office and doing mass mailings and- and I was like really having trouble with it. And she just sort of sat me down and basically said, girl, you can do this. And you know, she was. She was very cool. Margot Jackson was very involved at the time. [00:27:38] Margie Ewing, and then later, like Louise Nahas. You know, these- They were just- They were just great. So they, you know, they were very helpful and. And I basically just did the. Okay, let’s come up with a brochure. Let’s get a mailing list going. Let’s get this on- You know, pretty primitive computers. I know I used my- my personal computer at the time. I just took it down to the office and set it up, start raising money. And then very. Let’s see. Somewhere in there very early on, you know, we got asked to be the, kind of be the fiduciary for things like the Cuyahoga Valley Heritage Festival. And so that became a major, a major emphasis was for us to be the one to apply for grants, funding, you know, through Gund, Cleveland Foundation, etc. And then, you know, for the festival, I applied for all the funds. The money came to CVA. I wrote the checks. You know, we, we served in that capacity. But the other thing that, that we did in those early years, and I’d have to try to remember how, you know, how and when. But. So my office was up at Homestead. I had, did I have three offices because at some point we moved to the Point Farm. But then. Oh yeah, I did have three offices. But before the Point Farm we were in Everett. I think when we were there, we called it the Osborne House, but I’m not sure which you would know the one later on it was regional offices were in there. Yeah. Anyway. Well, okay, so in that period of time, besides creating a viable friends group, we also sort of served as an incubator for other organizations and that, that. Do you know about how that works?
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:30:12] No, this, the, the incubating for others is, is, is a new one to me. Okay, well, we’re shredded. I don’t remember that part.
Peg Bobel [00:30:22] Yeah, from the Green Shrouded Miracle. Yeah, we, we incubated quite a lot. So. So, you know, Rob and I started the Trails Council before I worked for CVA. Then when I started working for CVA, I think one of the first ones, because I remember we held these meetings up at Homestead. We hosted the first meetings that would become Friends of the Crooked River. So I remember Debo, John Debo saying that nobody cared about the river or the river didn’t have any friends or whatever. And it’s so like, okay. And a young woman came to us, Kathleen somebody, Kathleen O’Neill, and she knew about some big river festivals that were taking place on other major rivers in the United States. And I can’t think of which one. She told us about that. She envisioned a river based festival and, and we got a, we got people together and what came out of it was Friends of the Crooked River, which, you know, never did a. Well, yeah, I mean, they did do the river, you know, the River Day. So, so that sort of got started there. And then the folks that were working to save the Mustill Store and to create Cascade Locks Park, Virginia Vail, she came to CVA and said, could you run some money through your organization until we can get set up as a separate 501c3. So we did that. We got Cascade Locks going. And then the Countryside Conservancy started out as the Countryside Initiative and that was run through CVA. I remember rewriting a grant, say Darwin had applied to the Gun foundation and it didn’t go through and I rewrote the grant and we, we got funding, you know, and then they split off and then we kind of- Well, yeah, we, we also hosted the first meetings that would become the Ohio and Erie Canalway Coalition. So I’ve-
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:32:55] Now, is that, is that the southern or the northern?
Peg Bobel [00:32:58] The southern.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:32:59] Oh, thank you. Thank you.
Peg Bobel [00:33:01] Yeah. Yeah. Excuse me. Yeah. That Dan Rice has been head of. Because I remember Dan coming down to the office too, when he was going to take, take on that position and asking me about, you know, what’s it like running, running these things.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:33:22] Wow. You’ve actually, you’ve actually gone ahead and answered a few other- The questions that are in the- And you mentioned some names like Margot Jackson and Janet Hutchinson. Were there any other female leaders that, that we’ve missed?
Peg Bobel [00:33:41] Those were the ones that popped into my mind when I was thinking about this. Sue Klein, certainly. And you know, and Christine Freitag. She’s passed on, but she was huge in it. Sue was certainly. She put in a great deal of time and effort and goes back to the Park Federation days, you know, so she has a lot of the early, early days.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:34:13] Okay. So, and you mentioned Andrea Ireland. So how did you meet her? How did you, how did you lasso her in and what was her role at CVA?
Peg Bobel [00:34:24] Well, that was really fun. So I very do, you know, sometimes you don’t remember how you first meet someone, but she. I do remember her. So you’ll get a kick out of this. I had- Wow. What year was this? This would have been, I think, I think. Right. Yeah. Right after I left my job at the hospital. So it had been like ’88, ’89. I got one of those three month stints as a Student Conservation Association person.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:34:54] Okay, okay.
Peg Bobel [00:34:55] And okay. And I worked out of Happy Days and I, I was running the winter sports, which was, it was so wonderful to have a winter sports. I was really sad when that, when that ended. But that was just a three-month deal. So we ran- How did that work? It was- So the lake shelter was open as the winter sports center on weekends, but during the week I had a little office at Happy Days, which was just heaven to me. It was just. I just love that building. And I would work the front desk and Andrea came in and wanted to know about volunteering in the park. And we had this, this great conversation. She remembers it more clearly than I do, but- And then it was funny because after that we joked about how- And I’m going to have lunch with her tomorrow, which will be fun. But we joked about how everything that I did then she did because either I volunteered there and then she volunteered for the park. And then I worked for George and Katie Hoy for a while running their little Lolly the Trolley tours. And then Andrea worked for them for a while. And so we just kept following each other. And then when I said at CVA, you know, we really need more of an assistant, you know, somebody who can help with- Because we were doing, we were doing our own mass mailings of the news, we were writing the newsletter, getting it printed, putting the labels on, you know what I mean? It was a very hands-on kind of thing. We didn’t outsource anything because we didn’t have the funds. But anyway, I suggested Andrea because I knew that she would, would really love that. And we, I forget how many years we were together there, but we had some really, really fun times, as you can imagine. And you know- Yeah, and we were basically doing it all. I mean when we started, okay, you know, the biggest project of course was getting the EE [Environmental Education] Center going. And that was, that was, you know, massive number of meetings. Margie Ewing was the chair of the CVA’s Committee to study the feasibility of doing the environmental. Of partnering with the park to do the Environmental Ed Center. And she just had a wonderful spirit about her, the way she approached that. But when we, when we first hired people and got that all started, we were doing everything, we were doing our own payroll, you know what I mean? So it was a very get, you know, get in there and get your hands dirty. I mean we, we just, Andrea and I did it, you know, did what had to be done.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:38:05] Administrative assistant Jack, Jill, Jill of all trades.
Peg Bobel [00:38:09] Yeah, Jill of all trades. And then, you know, she, she worked for John Reynolds running the festival. So that, that worked all in there too. So.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:38:22] Man. So, and I, I know you had a close friendship with Lynn Metzger.
Peg Bobel [00:38:30] Oh, yes.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:38:31] How did you meet her? And did you loop her into CVA and if so how?
Peg Bobel [00:38:39] Yeah, actually I did. So Lynn and I and, and Ed and Rob. So we all met through the Canal Corridor project. Okay. So, you know, so I, I through CVA hosted the first meeting of the people that would eventually form the Ohio and Erie Canalway. Boy, in the beginning it was OECCC because we- Ohio and Erie Canal Corridor Coalition. Lynn was teaching at the University of Akron. Her husband Ed had retired and Lynn felt that Ed needed a project. So she got Ed involved in the Canal Corridor group. So Rob and Ed were on the board together and we all, you know, as two couples became friends, I knew that Lynn was, was a, you know, they were both big park supporters. They’d probably been members for a long time. So very late in my tenure with CVA, I invited Lynn to be on, on the board. So she was on the board, probably not more than a year or two, I’d guess. And it was right before I resigned. So she was not near as involved there as she was, you know, like with the Corridor and through Ed and everything. And then she got, when I left CVA, she got me involved in doing the, the Canal Fever book.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:40:29] So in those, other than not being able to do mail machines and getting your hands down and dirty and writing checks all the time. So tell me about the challenges CVA had in those days.
Peg Bobel [00:40:46] Challenges? Well, you know what? This is not so much a challenge, but it’s one thing we did get involved in rather early on was this whole idea of what is a friends group. What is a proper role of a friends group. Is a friends group an advocacy group or not? Are you, you know, what is a friend? How critical does a friend get, and that sort of thing. And I started, I can’t even remember how, but, you know, someone started getting together different leaders of different friends groups across the country. Because I remember going to, gosh, a gathering in, in Milwaukee and a gathering in. We had a really nice meeting in the, in the Caribbean islands. So that was really nice. And what. In San Francisco. So I think we are on St John in the Virgin Islands. But I would attend these discussions where people from across the country that worked for other nonprofit groups supporting national parks were discussing what does it mean to be a friends group and all that. So we were very much involved in that. But I’d say, I mean, our main challenges were probably just, you know, we, we wanted to raise money to support projects in the park. We definitely, you know, we, we got involved in raising money for Junior Ranger Program, the, the arts and, you know, Heritage Festival. So I, I, it’s funny, I don’t remember it as being challenging. There’s just so much that we wanted to, you know, we wanted to grow and to raise money and to, to raise a supportive membership. The- Setting up the EEC was angstful for a lot of people because it was like, what, what are we getting into? You know, what will our, what will our commitment be here, both financially and in terms of the time and that sort of thing? I do remember actually taking the train to Chicago to meet with this wonderful woman whose name I don’t have in my head right now. But she ran the friends group for Indiana Dunes. They had started an EE center there and a residential-type center. And she was, you know, a great inspiration and told us the challenges that, you know, you would go through. One, one- one interesting challenge that I think probably still exists is we at CVA had our own membership and our own volunteers that would do stuff like if we sponsored a program, if we. Well, when we did the festival, we managed tons of volunteers that would help run the festival. But the National Park Service had a volunteer program and Sharon Johnson was in charge of that. And she and I became very good friends. But it was one of those confusing things about, well, who, you know, who should be in charge of these folks, how should this be managed? And I think that’s still something that’s probably a little confusing or trying to get worked out, you know, as to how that, how that should all work. But that was one of the little sticky points, I guess.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:44:59] Yeah. So you just mentioned that there was some angst about EEC. So was the CVA board united in supporting EEC or were there some board members that were just like, I’m not. The word of my questions is conflict, but I don’t want to use that word. Were there some that were hesitant?
Peg Bobel [00:45:24] I’m sure there were some that were hesitant. At this point, I can’t really remember. And I. And I think, I mean, remember who or to what? I don’t remember it being. There was no, like, great strife or, you know, like push and pull, like, no, we must do this. No, we mustn’t do this. It was more of a, oh, are we ready for this? You know, we’re. At that point there was me and Andrea, you know, and we were part time. So it was like, are we, are we a strong enough, viable enough organization to, you know, to make this work? But they were very much philosophically in support of it. You know, there. I don’t think we had anyone that was questioning the, you know, the good that could come of it or the, you know, that they wanted to be a good partner. But were we, were we ready for that was more how I remember it.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:46:36] Okay. I do have-
Peg Bobel [00:46:38] Go ahead, go ahead. Well, I was just thinking there might be something back in the minutes of the organization that would reflect that. But sometimes minutes don’t reflect those things, you know, they just reflect the outcome.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:46:54] Okay. And by the way, you’re answering questions sometimes before I could even get to them. So I want to be respectful of your time. So I’m going to jump ahead a little. So looking back, what are some of your fondest memories of Cuyahoga Valley National Park?
Peg Bobel [00:47:15] Well, you know, when I start talking to people about the days that I was working there, the festival just comes up. I mean, we just. We just had so much fun with that, and there was so much, you know, months of preparation, and then there was a month or two of cleanup afterwards. But it was such a joyful celebration to have, you know, I think we ended up with 8,000 people coming. And I don’t know if I should say this out loud, but, you know, John Debo, after a while, no longer wanted us to have a festival. It wasn’t making money. We were-
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:48:03] And it was very labor intensive.
Peg Bobel [00:48:05] It was very labor intensive. But, you know, one of his complaints was it didn’t. I forget how this came about. But Andrea and I used to say, well, you know, we drew 8,000 people to that event. And John’s complaint was that it was the same 8,000 people. And it just struck us funny that, you know, it’s like, you know, thousands of people are coming to this event. That’s the problem. But anyway, we. We. That was. We were very. We enjoyed that a lot. And that’s- That’s a very happy memory.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:48:48] The same people that come to the concerts inside at Happy Days in the before times.
Peg Bobel [00:48:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So that, you know, and supporting the different arts events. We were involved a little bit in making sure that the Coliseum, you know, property got. Got into the park. And, you know, you feel very good about things like that. And we had, you know, about the sister park relationship we had for a while that sort of kind of still exists.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:49:32] Is that with the sister parks in Slovakia?
Peg Bobel [00:49:35] Slovakia, yeah. Yes, yes.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:49:38] And I met several of the delightful in my first few years here. Several of the delightful interns from Slovakia.
Peg Bobel [00:49:46] Good, good, good. Yeah, I’ve kind of dropped contact with them, and I should pick that up again because we met some really wonderful people through that.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:50:01] So I want to be respectful of your time. We have other questions. So Eric may reach back out and, like, schedule another 40 minutes or so, but I want to end on this one, and Erich is texting me. Yes, yes, yes, please. So. So you work for CVA. You’ve been a Sierra Club volunteer doing cleanups. You were instrumental with the Cuyahoga Valley trails. What are we not getting? Do I understand you were also a citizen scientist? Can you tell me about that? And you’ve been a book author writing about the national park, not necessarily the national, but the Cuyahoga Valley. So can you tell me about those things and are there any I’m missing?
Peg Bobel [00:50:50] Yeah. Okay. The citizen science thing, I’d say that is mainly, you know, Rob and I and Andrea. Andrea and I, I think, got. Were the. You know, Andrea and I started, and then we drew Rob in once he retired, you know, counting the herons, which are back, by the way. Yes.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:51:13] Yeah, we just posted that.
Peg Bobel [00:51:14] That they’re back. Good, good, good. We did that when. When Meg was still with the park. Meg Plona. I. I did some beaver counting, Beaver lodge counting. What else? We do the marsh monitoring, which is also under the aegis of Birds Canada. So. Yeah, and. And just the. The bird censuses. So that’s the citizen science part of it. And what was. Oh, and then. Yeah, I mean, we haven’t talked about the writing part. So that all got started back with Trails Council and our work with, gosh, Chris Galitzi. Did you ever know Chris? Was he before?
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:52:11] They may have been finishing up as I was starting, because I started in 99, and for the first year, my head was still spinning.
Peg Bobel [00:52:20] Yeah. Okay, so you started in 99. I forget why. Chris must have been our. The Trails Council’s kind of liaison to the park. And he, you know, expressed that the park didn’t have anything to hand out to people to show them where they could hike, bike, ski, you know, whatever. And so the Trails Council started publishing these little pamphlets that you may have seen around. We had one on called 4 Bicycle Trips in the national park, because this was all pre-Towpath and one on hiking, one on biking, and one on skiing. What am I missing? Four days? What do we do? And then. And then out of that came the. The trail guide. So pretty much I was writing that from material that Trails Council people were helping to contribute. So, you know, that. That came out. And then we did the Nature of the Towpath. Then for OECC, we did Traveler’s Guide to the Towpath Trail. I think that’s what we call it. Something like that. And then did Canal Fever with Lynn.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:53:45] Lynn.
Peg Bobel [00:53:47] And then I- I hesitate to mention this because people say, oh, when’s it coming up? But for years we’ve been working on. I’m helping to edit a collection of- of essays on Native Americans in the Cuyahoga Valley. So Lynn’s notes. Yes, that’s going to- That’s going to the public. It’s going to go to University of Akron Press later this year. So keep your fingers crossed.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:54:22] Wow. Wow. Yeah. Thank You. Thank you. Thank you.
Peg Bobel [00:54:23] So what- What kinds of things do you think you’ll call me about again? Should I be preparing for anything?
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:54:29] It’s like the later advocacy years, what you’ve done since you’re no longer with CVA and some general. And then to see if I’ve missed anything. And then, you know, who are the women leaders you look up to? That kind of thing. And any questions we may have about some of the women leaders that you may have mentioned.
Peg Bobel [00:54:54] Yes. Okay, great.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:54:55] It won’t be- It won’t be long, but unfortunately, I have a meeting for summer operations that I have to be in because just because it’s winter doesn’t mean we have to think, you know, we have to move ahead to summer.
Peg Bobel [00:55:10] Absolutely. Yeah.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:55:12] Thank you so much. It is always a delight to talk to you and it is always a delight to see you. Tell Rob hello for us here in the park. And hopefully sometime this summer, we’ll see you on the Towpath Trail with a pair of binoculars in hand.
Peg Bobel [00:55:32] That would be great, Rebecca. Thank you so much. I totally enjoy talking about these things, so thank you.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:55:40] I know there’s some details I’ve missed, so we will get back to those, and Eric may reach out to you for some time in. Well, now we’re looking at March. It’s already that.
Peg Bobel [00:55:52] Okay, sounds good.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:55:54] All right. Thank you again, Peg.
Peg Bobel [00:55:56] Sure. Sure. Take care. All right.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:55:59] You, too. Stay warm. Stay well.
Peg Bobel [00:56:01] Oh, yes, you, too.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:56:03] All right. Bye.
Peg Bobel [00:56:05] Bye. Bye. [recording stops; interview resumes]
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:56:08] Not smiling.
Peg Bobel [00:56:10] Yeah. We were in the park and it was- It was full of happy people.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:56:16] Yes. Soaking up the vitamin D while we could. And then we hit today.
Peg Bobel [00:56:22] Oh, and yesterday. It was crazy yesterday. Yeah.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:56:30] So last time we left off, I think, again, this is a continuation of a previous interview. Today is March 8, 2022. This is Rebecca Jones with Peg Bobel. And at the last interview, we kind of stopped. We had just barely touched on Peg Bobel, the author.
Rebecca Jones Macko [00:56:57] So, I know you worked on the trail guide, and was it the nature guide, Nature of the Towpath. But tell me about the books that you’ve worked on, on Cuyahoga Valley National Park.
Peg Bobel [00:57:12] Okay. So, yeah, the very first little writing project we did, and I think it was when Chris Galizzi was our liaison to the park for the Trails Council. He brought to our attention that the park didn’t have anything at that point in time to hand out to people to tell them where, you know, to go to hike or bike or whatever. And so the first things we did, which lasted for a few years and were kind of short lived, but they were just little brochures. And so there was one on. Oh gosh, we hit, hit on some hiking trails. We did a, we did a little brochure on, on biking and that was just where to bike on the roads. You know, sort of like four loops that you could take because there were no- the Towpath hadn’t been built yet. There was the bike and hike and I think we included that. And then we had one on horseback riding and one on skiing. So those, you know, came out first. And then we decided with Chris’s input and you know, impetus from the park was to do a comprehensive guide that would cover, you know, everything that existed. So Rob and I were the leaders on that. So I was the lead writer. We did have other folks on the Trails Council submit material which was, which was really fun. So it was a group, it was a really group effort. And that one we self published, you know, hired our own graphic designer and all that and just went to a printer. And then the next issue it was picked up by the next edition it was picked up by Gray & Company in Cleveland and they’ve been publishing it ever since. And we decided from the very get go that it would come out under the name of Cuyahoga Valley Trails Council and that the proceeds from the book would all go to the Trails Council. So which is, which has happened and that is what has funded that organization all this time. Which is pretty cool. Yeah, so that was our first one and then, you know, we’ve stayed involved in that. I don’t know if they’re going to do a new edition on that or not or whether we’ll be involved. But anyway, that, that was the first one and then I think Nature of the Towpath was next and that one was completely self-published. And then the Corridor project was happening and so Rob and I did the, we were the leads on doing the Towpath Companion, the book, you know, that OACC still, still comes out. And then so, you know, those first ones were just specific to Cuyahoga Valley National Park. The others, you know, expanded out into the, into the greater world of the Corridor. And then I think in it was right around the time that I left CVA, Lynn Metzger had started working on Canal Fever and she was working with Sam Tamburro. Was he here when you came?
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:00:53] Oh yes. Oh yes.
Peg Bobel [01:00:54] Okay. Okay. So Sam and Lynn got that book started and then he needed to pull out of it. He felt he couldn’t devote the time to it. And Lynn asked me to come in to serve as her co editor and then to write part of Canal Fever. And now we’re working on finishing the book on the Native American history in the Valley. And those are the key ones outside the park. I did a little booklet for the Slavic Village neighborhood in Cleveland.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:01:32] I don’t think I’ve seen that one though. So what was the title of that one?
Peg Bobel [01:01:36] Oh gosh, I’d have to go look. It was specific to the St. Stanislaus neighborhood, which is. What is it called? I’m looking in my library to see if I even have a copy of it. What is it called? Slavic Village: Coming Home to the City. Oh, and I’m seeing here we also, we also worked on, with Patience Cameron on revising beyond Cleveland on Foot. And that included hikes in the valley and hikes in I think five counties. So we wrote and helped revise that. That is no longer in print. I think Gray and Company have dropped printing that.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:02:38] I think we still have a few copies though with conservancy in our book sales area.
Peg Bobel [01:02:47] Oh, good.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:02:51] Are you sure that’s all? Because you know the. So I have you involved in the Sierra Club and doing those cleanups and Cuyahoga Trails Council. You’ve been a citizen scientist, you’ve been a book author. What other hats have you worn with CVA? Did I miss any?
Peg Bobel [01:03:08] Oh, did you say with CVA or beyond CVA?
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:03:11] Well, we can start with CVA and then go beyond. To infinity and beyond.
Peg Bobel [01:03:18] Yeah, no, I think you, you captured everything. I, you know, I, I and Rob, we and several others co founded the Trails Council. So I was the first president there. But I think we talked about that. And then around, wow, around 2000 or so I got asked to be on the board of what was then the Medina Summit Land Conservancy. And I was president of that organization during the time that the various land conservancies were merging to create Western Reserve Land Conservancy.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:04:08] Okay.
Peg Bobel [01:04:10] So I had a leadership role in that because I was president of the smaller organizations board when the whole merger took place. So that was a really interesting time to be involved. And you know Rebecca, thinking of this sort of in an organic way when I worked for CVA, all of our focus was of course on being a friend to the national park. But being a conservation minded person, I was really, really keenly aware of threats outside the park for one thing, you know, boundary threats and then just the need for greater conservation efforts beyond our park. And that’s why I got involved in the land conservancy and you know, involved in issues with a broader, you know, regional focus. I remember having a conversation with John Debo when I was early on with CVA, and I was concerned about one of the issues, I think was when the big golf course on the east side of the park in Boston, Boston Heights, whatever that golf course was. Right?
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:05:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m aware of that one.
Peg Bobel [01:05:30] Yeah. When, you know, when that was happening and, and then Glencairn on the west side of the park, you know, very concerned about those. And I remember at the time it was like John was like, no, we just know that we have to focus on the park. We can’t worry about what’s happening outside the park. Well then I think he kind of changed a bit because with Glencairn in that instance, you know, that development is inside the boundaries of the park partially. And he did go to bat to try to stop that, but really his hands were tied. He couldn’t do much about that. But then like with Coliseum, you know, that was a real big effort to, to expand the boundary of the park in order to take that in. So that was another really good. That was a very positive outcome on the west side of the boundary, you know,
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:06:28] So you just hinted at a question that I was going to ask. So what changes have you seen in the park in CVA in your years involvement?
Peg Bobel [01:06:41] Well, you know, I mean, the one that just jumps out at you if you go into the park on the weekend is the number of people, you know, which is both a blessing and a curse when, when the Towpath was being built. I mean, I have such a, such a clear memory of this. You know, we were all excited and we thought this was going to be a great thing. I had no idea of the floodgates that would open and you know, the pent-up demand or whatever it was when, you know, when different sections were being built, there were people, you know, just behind the bulldozers. You know, I mean, I mean, and Lynn Metzger used to joke they were just in front of the bulldozers. You know, they, they, you know, people were just so eager for that and just to see the amount of visitorship that the park is getting is, it’s, it’s wonderful. But it’s also, I know, really straining parts of the park, you know, so we probably really do need more trails, so.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:07:53] Or management plans in place for, for when trails are exhausted and how do we help them recover?
Peg Bobel [01:08:00] Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. And you know, hiking this weekend, we even felt a little guilty because the conditions were so muddy. And that’s not good for, you know, for the resource and, you know, but it’d be really hard to say on a day like Sunday that you can’t hike on the trails because that was everybody’s outlet and, you know, they’re- Yeah, it’s really, really important resource.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:08:30] So what have been the biggest surprises in how the park has evolved? Are there any other surprises besides these explosions?
Peg Bobel [01:08:46] Ah, surprises. I- No, I can’t say that anything pops into my mind that is a surprise. Yeah.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:09:09] And we could, if you want to put that one on the back burner, we can maybe come back.
Peg Bobel [01:09:12] Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. One thing that strikes me is not a surprise, but, you know, early on it was very difficult for people, and it still is difficult for some people to distinguish the difference between national park and our Metro park systems. And oh my gosh, we were watching PBS, one of the stations, probably WVIZ the other night, and you know, they always put up a pretty picture in between things and they put up this photograph and they labeled it Brecksville Reservation, and it was a picture of the train station at Station Road. [laughs] It just struck me funny because the train station does say Brecksville on it, but-
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:09:58] Right, right, it does.
Peg Bobel [01:10:00] It’s like, no, that’s really not Brecksville Reservation right there. [laughs] So, you know, there’s still some confusion out there.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:10:07] Yeah. So we’ve talked about CVA, Cuyahoga Valley Association. So when did you start working for CVA and when did you leave? How long were you involved?
Peg Bobel [01:10:19] Oh, I started, I want to say in ’89, I think, on a very, very part-time basis. And I left in 2001. I had decided to leave. I was going to leave like early in September of 2001 and then September then, you know. You remember what happened in September of 2001, and so-
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:10:54] Ooooh yeah.
Peg Bobel [01:10:56] And so I, I delayed leaving, I think until around October or so. And you, you, let’s see, you, you were here then?
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:11:07] Yes, I was here.
Peg Bobel [01:11:08] Yeah.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:11:08] So why did you leave CVA?
Peg Bobel [01:11:10] Did you say why or when?
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:11:13] Why?
Peg Bobel [01:11:14] Okay, so that’s probably a complicated story, but I’ll try to simplify it. So, gosh, the big, big project of CVA, the board and all, was to create the Environmental Ed Center. And that really consumed a lot of, of everyone’s energy and attention and it was a really good, positive accomplishments. Then as the Center got going, we had some real rough spots and part of it was in staffing and who we hired and the fact that it was co managed by a nonprofit and the Park Service. It’s- You know, it’s a- It’s a challenging relationship as to who’s in charge of what. And our- our first director was- was difficult to get along with, and we let him go. And then our second one was sort of scatterbrained. And I think we had. Boy, I’d have to think back, but we had. We did have an incident where one of our employees had stolen some money, I think, and the director hadn’t dealt with it very well and that sort of thing. So there were some rough years. And then with Deb, and I can’t remember if she. I guess then she became director. I’m trying to remember the order in which things happen. And she really felt like the Center needed to be its own entity. And we went through quite a process to discuss that and debate it. And then the EE Center did split off. And so I think I was. I must have still been there when that happened. And then I recall that. So our board at that point was bit in a dilemma about, okay, what is CVA supposed to be now? And I know that we had some strategic planning meetings, and we were trying to get there, trying to get to the answer, but the board wasn’t certain what direction to go. And John Debo had ideas about what direction we should go, and he felt that his desires for the organization and my vision of it. My vision was not matching his vision, apparently, but I honestly didn’t know that at the time, and he wasn’t straightforward about that. So he basically worked with the board, and the board decided that they needed to make some changes and that I would no longer be their leader. So I was invited to not be their leader anymore, but I could stay on, but not, you know, not be the executive director. So I chose to. I chose to resign. But they. They told everybody I was retiring, which struck me funny, because I was pretty young, you know, for to be retiring. So I didn’t look at it as a retirement so much as a. I. I just resigned and- and felt it was definitely for the best of everyone, you know, because. Because John wanted something different. You know, he- He had- I know he very, very much- We used to call it Golden Gate Envy or something. He really- He really appreciated what the friends group was doing out at Golden Gate in California. So anyway. And then he went to work for the- the new entity. So the EE Center split off, and then I resigned. Andrea Ireland stayed on for a while as the only employee of CVA.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:15:54] Right. I remember those days.
Peg Bobel [01:15:56] Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then I guess it was either. I guess after she left the two organizations, well, they basically, the EE Center then took over the role of what CVA used to be and dissolved the CVA 501c3. So, yeah, so that’s how it all evolved.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:16:25] But you’ve remained a staunch advocate. So how is your time in Cuyahoga Valley influenced your continued advocacy not just for the park, but for all the greater Northeast Ohio environmental issues?
Peg Bobel [01:16:43] Well, you know, I. Gosh, Rebecca, I- you know, Rob and I both have just great admiration for the ethos of the National Park Service, you know, and I just. I. I just always looked to the National Park Service for inspiration and guidance in life, you know, and. Yeah, anyway, so. So I just- I just- Gosh, those, you know, the years that we had when Rob and I both were so very involved just are the basis of what we believe in and, you know, and. And always, always will. I mean, you know, he retired. I think it’s been five years now, maybe.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:17:38] Oh, wow. It’s been that long?
Peg Bobel [01:17:39] I think. So I think we’re approaching his fifth. Yeah. But, you know, he has. It’s near and dear to his heart as well, so.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:17:56] So tell us about the advocacy work you’ve done since then, because I- like, for example, I know you’re finishing Lynn’s American Indian work.
Peg Bobel [01:18:07] Right, right.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:18:09] So what other advocacy have you been involved with since then?
Peg Bobel [01:18:15] I. Probably. Probably not too much. I say that because I sometimes I feel like, you know, that I’m not contributing. Not contributing in an advocacy role like I used to, like when we were so involved with more Sierra Club and policy and, you know, really out there. So the biggest efforts were through the land conservancy, and we’ve sort of adopted a project here in Akron that we have worked on pretty steadily from year to year. Beyond that, I’ve really sort of stepped back a bit, I guess, really focused on the. Definitely on the writing end of things.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:19:08] But I also understand that you’ve worked with Summit Metro Parks. Can you tell me about that work?
Peg Bobel [01:19:14] Yeah, I sort of forgot to mention that, didn’t I? That’s so funny. So, yeah. And, yeah, that’s not in the advocacy field, but it’s certainly what I’ve done as a professional. When Lynn and I were finishing up Canal Fever, she. So she headed up the community archaeology program at University of Akron. She taught there, of course, and Metro Parks would hire her and the team at the University of Akron to do their historic context, background reports and archeology on any area that they were going to be doing new projects or development in it was like, you know, it was like doing compliance work, even though they didn’t have to do compliance work. And I was really intrigued with what Lynn was getting involved in and some of her projects and reports she was doing. It was just so interesting. And then I would help her with the writing part because Lynn was a great idea person and could get her ideas down, but she needed help getting her sentences shaped up. So I would help, you know, edit some of what she was working on. And then finally she said, you know, I really need, I need someone to help me do the historic background research. So I was working with Lynn through the University of Akron on a contract basis, so contracted project by project. So we would, Metro Parks would give them a project and I would be the be paid as the contract researcher slash writer. Then after Lynn passed away, Linda Whitman and I were, you know, continued to be involved with Metro Parks and they decided that they would rather hire us as part time employees than as contractors. And they just felt that that that was a more proper way and that it would work better all the way around. So Linda Whitman and I were both hired on again part time and I worked there for almost exactly five years, so as a cultural resource specialist, so which is somewhat self taught because my degree is in of course, social work, but that is related. And so it was more of a, you know, an interest on my part and learn as you go kind of research. But that’s why I’m so interested like in what Eric’s doing and what you all are doing. You know, my life has always been one foot in sociology and one foot in nature, you know, and how the two intertwine, you know.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:22:23] Yes. And this whole conversation I really appreciated your passion for Cuyahoga Valley National Park. So I’d like to ask a few questions that are kind of in a personal realm. So what are you, Peg Bobel, most passionate about?
Peg Bobel [01:22:51] As in generally what I’m most passionate about.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:22:56] So. Yeah, what, what, what brings the spark, the fire to Peg Bobel? What are you passionate about?
Peg Bobel [01:23:04] Well, I’ll tell you. Hiking in, in the woods or the mountains, anywhere. I mean, if I’m feeling like I’m not quite alive, I just go to the woods and hike until I’m really tired. So I’m most passionate about nature and the whole web of amazing interconnected life and I can get real bummed out about what’s happening to our earth and I just go to the woods to get restored. And you know, you ask about advocacy. This is not- I- It’s not me personally doing great things, but I belong to a number of national organizations and at least support them as much as I can financially. You know, the Environmental Defense Fund and the Wilderness Society and organizations like that.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:24:14] So who inspires you?
Peg Bobel [01:24:21] Oh, great writers. I do a lot of reading, as you can imagine. Most writers like to read more than they like to write. Yeah, great writers. I’m looking here at an enormous biography of Rachel Carson, which I bought to give to a friend. But certainly the, you know, the early advocates, the naturalists of the like, you know, earlier 1900s and later, Thoreau sits on my bookshelf. You know-
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:25:14] There are times when I’m grateful for not having. For this interview, not being with a screen or seeing. But by the way, I’m sitting here with this huge grin on my face because I hear you, and I totally celebrate you for going to the woods. So, what about Cuyahoga Valley stays with you on a personal level?
Peg Bobel [01:25:43] What about it stays with me on a personal level? Well, you know, again, it’s that mixture of the people that I’ve known through the years and the projects and the fun that we’ve had together, and so many of my friends still are friends that I have met through the park. So, you know, it’s the people, the experiences. You know, when. When Rob and I are out walking in the park, we’re like, constantly remembering, you know, you know, this event or that experience or this person that we ran into or, you know, so it’s. It’s those relationships. We. We were interviewed. We were interviewed one time by- by CBS, I think, and they- They interviewed us on the Towpath, and Rob had a great line, and I’m not going to remember it exactly, but, you know, we said that the. That the Towpath started out as a trail and became a community or something like that. And. And definitely that trail in particular has become a community. I mean, where. Where you go, you see, you know, some of the same people you. You hear about relationships, you see, you know, it’s just. It has taken on a community feel that. That is a very interesting thing that I. That I would- I mean, if I- If we ever moved away from here, I mean, I would truly, truly miss that. That, you know, that feeling of- of belonging in a place. Yeah, I guess that’s it, Rebecca. Feeling like belonging in a place, a physical place. Yeah.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:27:48] Do you have anything else you’d like to share?
Peg Bobel [01:27:53] You know, this is going way back to the early days, but when. When Rob and I were talking about this over the weekend he was, we were kind of laughing and remembering things. You know. One, one of the changes that took place like with, with CVA and with the organizations and with EEC is, you know, it went from a really bare bones grassroots thing to a much more mature and, and sophisticated and grown up, you know, which is the way it should happen, you know. But, but some of it. But it’s often those early days when, you know, when you’re scraping to figure out where you’re going to get some funds to do something that are the most fun. But some of those early. The ways we raised money, it just cracks me up now to think about it. But there were, there were times early on that, that people joked that the CVA was the ATM for the park. And, and there’s- I’m remembering. So Meg Plona and other folks, she was the lead in writing some scripts for some going away party plays. Did you ever attend any of those or were those before your time?
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:29:15] I remember her delightful poems when people would leave.
Peg Bobel [01:29:18] Okay. Well, prior to that she would write whole plays. Oh my. And they would be acted out and some of them got recorded which would be hysterical to watch. But there was one in which my role was to dance across the stage at Happy Days carrying an enormous check made out to the park that, you know, a CVA check made out to the park. But we, we found ways like, like when Brian McHugh was still chief of rangers, I think he, he would get. When people had to pay restitution for damages done in the park. The restitution money would come to CVA and then we would turn it around and pay for something that resource that our visitor protection needed. You know, and the one thing I think we bought one year was a fake deer that a deer decoy that they would set out to catch poachers.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:30:20] Was it Brian when he retired?
Peg Bobel [01:30:23] A mechanical deer? I don’t know whatever happened to the mechanical deer? But, but that was rather fun. And then, and then another little story with the Trails Council to earn money when they cut the trees down to build the Towpath Trail. It was somewhat controversial, you know, because there were parts that were still quite forested and, and they didn’t want to just dump all those trees. So I don’t know if you knew this, but the park managed to figure a way that they could allow the Trails Council to have the trees. We, we cut and split the lumber the, the, the trees and sold firewood to earn money for the Trails Council to put into trail building. So we had a firewood sales thing going for a few years. We had a license and everything. And then we also somehow got scrap metal that we could collect from various places, and we turned in the scrap metal to earn a few bucks for projects in the park. So, like, the money, I think, built the fishing platform at- at the- the pond at Tree Farm Trail.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:31:41] Horseshoe Pond.
Peg Bobel [01:31:42] Horseshoe Pond, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, those were just some fun recollections that we had the other day.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:31:49] Selling firewood. I never heard that.
Peg Bobel [01:31:56] Oh, my gosh. We’ve got pictures. You would not believe the- There were two different places where the firewood was stationed. One of them was at the Hawkins Barn. And we’ve got a photograph somewhere. You just would not believe it. I mean, there was just an enormous, enormous amount of wood there. And we, you know, split it all. I mean, we would get tons of volunteers down there, split it, and then have these big firewood sales where people would be backed up way down the road because, you know, we were selling it at a good price. We got licensed and everything to do it. But. So it all went to a good cause, Rebecca. [01:32:38]
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:32:38] We have trails because of it. Wow.
Peg Bobel [01:32:43] That’s right.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:32:45] I have come to the end of my questions. Okay, Eric or I will follow up because of of course, if we do an interview, we have to have some documentation. But I’ve been trying to ask people for a picture that we can put with the file, and I ask the people that we’re talking to for a picture they like, because if- Like, if today, if you came to take a picture, it would be a bad hair day. So I’m asking people for a picture of themselves that they’re willing to share. Share with us that we can put in the files that this was Peg Bobel. Maybe this is Peg Bobel birding in Cuyahoga Valley National Park.
Peg Bobel [01:33:32] Okay.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:33:33] Or just a picture you like of yourself that you’re willing to share with us.
Peg Bobel [01:33:39] Okay, that’s good. And sometime we might want to talk you and ask about other women that were involved early on. And. And I. I could give you a. But these are folks that have passed away now, but they were. They were very influential to me early on, you know, as advocates for the park. So. But I think we mentioned those in the first interview.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:34:09] Yeah, I think we. Janet Hutchinson was one that you mentioned.
Peg Bobel [01:34:15] Yeah. Tommy Patty, Margie Ewing.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:34:19] Yes, you did mention Tommy Patty, which I had. I’m not familiar with that name. And what was the one you just mentioned?
Peg Bobel [01:34:25] Marge Ewing. Margie Ewing. She was- She was on my board when we were creating the Environmental Ed Center, and she led the committee that- that, you know, did the study and decided how to move forward. She was great. And Margot Jackson.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:34:49] Margo Jackson, Yes.
Peg Bobel [01:34:50] Yeah, yeah. She was, you know, real influential pre park and early park. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of those women were through the League of Women Voters.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:35:04] Voters.
Peg Bobel [01:35:05] Yeah. Which is pretty cool.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:35:08] And as you probably know, our fearless leader, Arrye Rosser, who’s heavily involved with the League.
Peg Bobel [01:35:14] Yes, yes, I did know that. So it’s a nice continuation.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:35:23] Well, thank you for being willing to share another part of your time with us. If we think of any questions, additional questions, we will reach out to you. But sure. Thank you, Peg, for giving me the biggest smiles for the day.
Peg Bobel [01:35:37] Okay, great. I’m glad for that.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:35:41] And keep walking in the woods. I look forward to meeting you sometime in the woods.
Peg Bobel [01:35:46] Okay, great. Sounds good. All right.
Rebecca Jones Macko [01:35:50] Thank you. And stay warm today.
Peg Bobel [01:35:52] Yes, thank you. You too. All right, take care. Bye-bye.
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