Abstract

Jennifer Daring is the co-founder of Green Recreation Organization, women and BIPOC centered outdoor adventure group. In this oral history, Jennifer discusses her career path, hobbies and the creation of Green Recreation Organization.

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Interviewee

Daring, Jennifer (interviewee)

Interviewer

Jones Macko, Rebecca (interviewer); Schnack, Erich (participant)

Project

Cuyahoga Valley National Park

Date

2-17-2022

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

43 minutes

Transcript

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:00:00] So my name is Rebecca Jones, and we are here today with Jennifer Daring, and it is February 17, 2022. So, Jennifer, I’m just going to slide right into some questions if that is okay with you.

Jennifer Daring [00:00:14] Yeah, that’s cool.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:00:16] So can you tell me your full name?

Jennifer Daring [00:00:18] Yep. Jennifer Daring.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:00:20] All right. And tell me a little bit about yourself.

Jennifer Daring [00:00:25] Well, I’m 34 years old. I’m a recent college graduate. I kind of went the non tradition route. I have a huge interest in the outdoors and the outdoor recreation and just kind of being an advocate for people of color and nature. But, yeah, pretty much anything outdoorsy, I’m doing it.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:00:45] All right. So where did you grow up?

Jennifer Daring [00:00:50] Stowe, Ohio. 

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:00:54] Ah. So can you tell me about your family when you were growing up?

Jennifer Daring [00:00:58] Yeah, it was just me, my mom, and my brother. We grew up kind of on low income scale of things. We originally lived in Kent and then we transferred to Stowe. But yeah, happy life.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:01:14] So what does your mom do?

Jennifer Daring [00:01:16] Oh, my mom right now works in the food service at the hospital. And then my brother, he is like an IT wizard. He works for a company. If I ever need help with a computer, I call my brother.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:01:33] So did you have a relationship with nature as a child? And tell me about that.

Jennifer Daring [00:01:40] So, funny story. I was originally in Girl Scouts, and I loved Girl Scouts. But as a kid, I would probably say I wasn’t the most outdoorsy kid. I was definitely afraid of canoeing to the point where I’d had a breakdown in a canoe in a lake. I didn’t want to use the outhouses because they terrified me. I thought like a snake was going to come up and bite me in the butt. Wildlife kind of scared me, but it wasn’t for a lack of not being immersed in it. It was just everything was scary to me. I guess it was the not knowing part that was the most intimidating.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:02:21] So were there any- When you were growing up, were there any outdoor activities you did with your family, with your mom, with your brother?

Jennifer Daring [00:02:27] Yeah, we went camping and then we also went fishing. I think we were pretty good at fishing. But, yeah, camping and fishing was kind of our thing. But I mean, I was still kind of scared of camping. Like, you’d hear the raccoons outside the tent, and that was kind of scary. But I mean, as I got used to it, it was more, I guess, a welcoming experience.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:02:54] So what did you study in college?

Jennifer Daring [00:03:01] I studied Environmental Studies with a double minor in Biology and Geography.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:03:07] Holy cow. So what led you on this journey into the environment?

Jennifer Daring [00:03:13] Well, I would probably say it started, like, in my early 20s. I dated a rock climber and I kind of went like, headfirst into, like, outdoor activities and outdoor recreation and advocation and then actually just like, kind of being. I was a bartender for, like, at the time, I was a bartender for, like, seven years. But now it’s been more like 12 years. And just seeing that kind of dull life, and there was no, like, end in sight, and I wasn’t doing anything to benefit anyone. So that’s when I decided, you know what, maybe I’ll take my interest to college. And so I went to college. 

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:03:56] Okay. So I’m curious, how do you identify yourself culturally?

Jennifer Daring [00:04:02] How do you mean?

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:04:07] Do you identify yourself as a person of color? Do you- What culture do you see yourself fitting in? Is this important to you? Is the culture, cultural identification important to you?

Jennifer Daring [00:04:18] I definitely identify as a person of color. I think it would be. I think it would take away, like, if I identified as, like, just a Black woman because I’m biracial. So I definitely prefer to identify as a person of color. So it doesn’t take away from the, you know, the, you know, the Black woman identification because, you know, I don’t want to erase that.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:04:44] So I’m, I’m curious about this Green Recreation Organization, your activism with this. So how long have you been active with it? Is Green Recreation Organization, is that the correct name?

Jennifer Daring [00:04:58] Yes. It used to be the Green Girl Gang, and we had changed it just because Green Girl Gang wasn’t a very inclusive-sounding name. And then the Gang part just sounds like kind of like a derogatory term. So I recently changed it probably three months ago to Green Recreation Organization. And I took over the group at the beginning or at the end of 2020, kind of right before the pandemic kind of hit us. The original founder no longer wanted to have ties with the group because she was so immersed in fly fishing. So she runs Ohio Women on the Fly, which is kind of like the fly fishing chapter of the group. So she went that route, which was awesome. I supported it. So I took over the group. And I had been. I started out as an ambassador in 2017, and I didn’t want to see the group wither away. So then I kind of took the reins in 2020.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:05:59] So what drew you to the former GGG, the current GRO organization? What drew you to that?

Jennifer Daring [00:06:08] It’s funny, actually. Jessica Stubak, the original founder, she had reached out to me on Instagram and was like, hey, you seem to be into all the same activities that we’re doing. Would you be interested in coming to a meetup? Just as simple as that. And like, I kind of looked over the group on Instagram and saw that they were into like rock climbing and backpacking and stuff like that. And so I went to my first meetup at the Rock Mill climbing gym and it was like downhill from there. I was going to meetups all the time and I made a bunch of brand new friends. It was awesome because, you know, I was just surrounded by all like male counterparts and you know, I didn’t really super connect with them just because, you know, it’s the lack of femininity that I was missing. And so to find this group was super awesome and uplifting.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:06:58] Was there experiences or people who, I’m going to say either discouraged or encouraged you in involvement with GRO?

Jennifer Daring [00:07:09] I mean, I just think the, I guess the interaction with people on Instagram, like I would get messages saying, you know, I’m so thankful for this group. You know, without this group, you know, I wouldn’t have all these friends and just to feel welcome and connected and just, you know, a lot of the women are in the same position that I was or just I was in. Like, you’re surrounded by a bunch of guys and like a male dominated industry and you’re like, okay, there’s got to be other women out there that exist besides just me. So I always get the thanks and you know, appreciation and then just to see like it kind of blossom, like people gain like these friends from this group, like long term friends. And had it not been for this group, you know, they would have never met or crossed paths. So I mean, I think just seeing those little stories and hearing the thank yous, it kind of keeps me going and inspires me. 

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:08:07] Okay, tell me about the vision behind GRO. Can you describe that vision behind the Green Recreation Organization?

Jennifer Daring [00:08:13] Yeah. So our goal is to hopefully kind of take it to the next level. We would love, love, love to become an official nonprofit just so I can have a little bit more help, you know, behind the scenes. Right now it’s pretty much me running the whole show by myself. And, you know, that’s exhausting. You know, sometimes I’m working three jobs and, you know, and at the time I was a college graduate, you know, trying to go to school and everything. And then I bought a house and I’ve been renovating it. So running this whole women’s group by myself has been, you know, a challenge. So if I can make it an official nonprofit, it’ll be nice to kind of appoint certain people for specific roles to kind of help me, you know, move this group along, you know, to the next chapter. And we’re still working on our website right now. And you’ll notice I use we a lot. Even though it’s like me by myself. I don’t ever like to use I because the group is a we group. It takes a community to run this group. So I don’t ever specifically say me or I. So, yeah, we’re definitely working on launching our new website and kind of taking things to the next level and being more official and more, I guess, on point with what our direction is going.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:09:31] Oh, so what skills have you brought to this line to working with Green Recreation Organizations?

Jennifer Daring [00:09:40] I guess just my skills and I’m really great with like social media organization and kind of just like marketing and networking and hyping people up and then just like my recreational skills. Like I pretty much dabble in every hobby or sport. Not super good at skiing or snowboarding, but, you know, I’ll dabble in all those things. But yeah, just kind of just. I think that helps with encouragement. You know, if women are looking for like a specific hobby or field and they don’t see it, I’m like, well, mention it. Like, I’ll be happy to, you know, host that event or you know, try something new. It wouldn’t hurt. Because who knows, maybe other people are looking for that community that they just haven’t found yet. And I’m willing to, you know, make that happen for them.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:10:31] So I understand you work for Summit Metro Parks, so how do you balance working for Summit Metro Parks and with this activism with Green Recreation Organization?

Jennifer Daring [00:10:43] I don’t know. It’s really hard at times. Yeah. Because I’m full-time at Summit Metro Parks and then I’m part-time bartender at Missing Mountain and then I also run this group and then I’m also still renovating my house. So I definitely try to prioritize, obviously myself in all of this, but I definitely dedicate time to, you know, working on the group and kind of making sure that come spring and summer that, you know, we’re, you know, in full gear, ready for, you know, our meetups or events or maybe even our backpacking trips. So definitely prioritizing my time.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:11:26] Yeah, so, so that sounds like there, there was challenges then with managing that workload. So are there other challenges with your work?

Jennifer Daring [00:11:37] I would. I mean, it’s hard because like right now I’m on my last week at Summit Metro Parks because as you know, most park positions are seasonal, so my position ends on Friday. So then I have the stress of trying to find a replacement job, you know, as a 30 something homeowner and like a recent college graduate, you know, your girl’s got bills. So it’s definitely trying to, you know, making sure I’m ahead of the game, making sure, you know, I’m doing my due diligence of, you know, looking for work. So I’m not stressed about, you know, work and income, but then also making sure that this group, you know, gets to where I want it to go in a reasonable amount of time.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:12:20] Wow, a lot of juggling there. So. So what are some things that you’ve learned with Green Recreation Organization along the way?

Jennifer Daring [00:12:30] Definitely asking for help. I’m not, I’m not a superwoman. So asking for help has definitely been. It’s hard for me because I like to do a lot by myself and do it for myself. But again, the group is a community group, so definitely having the help and the assistance is necessary for this group to operate and function. My good friend Ann Maria, she’s been helping me along the way, kind of getting myself established with the website and, you know, hopefully becoming a nonprofit. She’s been super helpful and a great community anchor to this group. But yeah, just definitely reaching out for help has definitely been a benefit.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:13:12] I hear you. So, so what are some of your favorite parts of your activism?

Jennifer Daring [00:13:18] I guess just engaging with, you know, the people that show up to all these meetups. Like, I’ve had, I’ve made some long term friends just from these meetups or, you know, it turns out, you know, it’s just like the seven degrees of Kevin Bacon. You’re like, oh, I know you. But they’re like, I know this person. And all of a sudden I’m like, how come we haven’t crossed paths? Because, you know, you know this person, I know this person, and this person knows this person, or maybe like they work for this group and, you know, there’s just that networking and that connection. I mean, I love that, like, I, I enjoy that the most is just meeting people and figuring out that, oh, maybe you actually kind of knew this person in a weird different kind of way. And now you find you have these common interests in these hobbies and you get to hang out together at the meetups.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:14:09] All right, so you mentioned a person who was an anchor that was helping you with the website page. So who are some of the other individuals along with you in this journey in Green Recreation Organization and what are their roles in GRO?

Jennifer Daring [00:14:30] For the most part, it’s just her And I. I do have a graphic designer that I’ve been loyal to. Her name is Nikki. She’s been kind of helping us with our rebranding because, you know, the whole old logo is the G Mountain. So we’re gonna switch that because I just didn’t feel like that logo kind of reflects the group. You know, Ohio doesn’t have mountains, and. Yeah, I wish it did. It does not. So she’s been helping us with our rebranding and our logos and then just any of the girls, because anyone can offer to host the meetup. So I have, you know, all sorts of women that come up to me and, like, want to host a meetup. Whether it’s rock climbing or foraging or a hike or a trail run. It’s been super helpful to have other people willing to help, you know, host events.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:15:29] So along as we’ve been talking, you’ve been touching on some of the types of recreation. So what are all the types of recreation that the Green Recreation Organization is involved with?

Jennifer Daring [00:15:45] We have a long list. We do rock climbing, kayaking, trail running, hiking, roller skate, longboard, slack lining. We do skiing and snowboarding. We do. Oh, what else is there? Like, I’ve already named so many things. Oh, we do foraging. We’ve had some book club meetups. We did yoga in the park. We definitely do trash cleanups. The trash cleanups are probably my personal, like, favorite. That’s the one I usually kind of take the reins on. I usually focus on huge cleanups at Summit Lake just because it’s in desperate need of help. But, yeah, I mean, we dabble in a bit of everything, and if there’s anything that people haven’t done, like. Like I said, we’re willing to do it. I also did ice skating, too. I love ice skating. Yeah, try to do a little bit of everything, try to keep things fresh and interesting and targeting all the outdoor recreational activities.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:16:57] Do you have any memorable stories from any of your outings that you’d like to share?

Jennifer Daring [00:17:05] So I would probably be- Probably my first outing- I almost didn’t go. So it was called- It was the first ever wellness fest, and this is the one that Jessica had put on. And it was. I don’t even know where it was. It was kind of, I think, close to Chesterland, so it was kind of out of my area. I didn’t really know it very well. And it was just like a wellness fest with, like, yoga, slack lining. There was massage and Reiki and then hiking and a bunch of stuff that I just wasn’t like, kind of super familiar with. And of course, it was just a bunch of women that I didn’t know. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I don’t know if I want to go to this. Like, I’m super nervous. I don’t know if I’m gonna, like, make a fool of myself or if I’m gonna be, like, really shy. And I ended up buying, like, my wellness ticket, like, the day of, and I was like a half hour late. But I showed up and it was like, it ended up being, like, the best time I’ve ever had. And I had so much fun. And, like, I couldn’t believe that I almost didn’t go. And I was like, I just. I made so many friends that day, and the experience alone was, you know, worth it. So that was probably my best story, like, my first outing with, at the time, Green Girl Gang.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:18:22] So how do you envision the future of outdoor recreation?

Jennifer Daring [00:18:28] I would, I would really, really hope for more inclusivity and diversity that’s super lacking. And it’s going to lack until people of color, whether black or brown, people feel more comfortable in the outdoors. And that’s just from years and years and generational, you know, discomfort and unwelcome and, you know, the outdoor community. So that’s also- It’s just going to take time, honestly. But I would like to see more diversity and inclusion.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:19:03] You mentioned I know you work at Summit Metro Parks, and we talked a little bit about that, and I’m sorry your season is ending.

Jennifer Daring [00:19:11] Yes.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:19:12] But what do you do with Summit Metro Parks right now?

Jennifer Daring [00:19:14] I am a wildlife biologist. I spend most of my time hanging out with. In the, in the good season, I hang out with snakes and turtles, bats, salamanders, pretty much anything like herpetology related. And then in the off season, I do a lot of the unfortunate deer management stuff. So. But I love that job. I wish I could keep that job.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:19:46] So I understand you were involved in the Summit Lake project along the Towpath Trail. So what was your role in that?

Jennifer Daring [00:19:54] I mean, I kind of was a person of many hats, so I organized it. I did all the supply retrieval with the trash grabbers, the trash bags, making sure that the trash had a proper end place. I weighed all the trash because I like to keep record of how many pounds that we’re collecting out of the lake. So I can do like an end of year summary of our collection and an ongoing, you know, end of year collection. And then I’m also a participant. So I’m not just like, you know, making sure people’s doing everything correctly and giving, you know, direction. I’m also participating and being a part of, you know, the action and collecting the trash out of the lake.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:20:38] So with this project, what were some of the lessons learned along the way? And do you have an example of that?

Jennifer Daring [00:20:46] I would definitely say that education, there needs to be a little bit more education on that area as well as just proper trash disposal. Like it’s, it’s a lot of both. Like it’s a lot of the city’s fault for not having proper trash disposal and cleanup. And then it’s just like, you know, people’s fault for, you know, not being aware of the damage that’s being created with all the trash that’s being put into that lake. So definitely just more awareness of, you know, what is happening to the trash.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:21:21] So flip side of that, what are some of the successes of that project?

Jennifer Daring [00:21:27] I mean, we definitely been in a publication for Summit Metro Parks for it. And then we were also on Channel 5 news for it as well. I got interviewed for the efforts that, you know, the group did at Summit Lake and continue to do. And I think it kind of did like a little like ripple wave effect. And I think, you know, they are going to implement some sort of like in lake trash, like catching receptacles that will need to be cleaned out to kind of help with the influx of trash in that area. Because it is an urban lake. Like it’s, it’s almost unavoidable just due to the location. And you know, it’s a Summit lake, so it kind of sits on a summit and like the canal runs north and south. So you have trash coming in from all avenues at that lake. So I think they’re going to implement ways to help with the trash. And I think it all started with just like the ripples and the effects that we did as a group.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:22:28] What were some of the challenges with that project?

Jennifer Daring [00:22:34] I wouldn’t say there was any challenges. I think, I guess the only mental challenge is kind of feeling like you spent like the whole day there collecting trash and then you could come back the next week and still collect the same amount of trash. Like, it’s almost like a never ending supply of trash. So that’s probably like the only thing that I ever noticed because I was even going there just by myself and just collecting trash and I’m like, it just never stops even. You’ll clean like an area and then the next week that same spot is filled with trash again. So it’s kind of you know, acknowledging you’re making the difference and not being discouraged that, you know, there will be more trash and there will be more cleanups, but, you know, every little bit helps.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:23:22] Yeah. And we don’t have visual with this interview, but I’m nodding my head because I’m sure my colleague Erich and I have both experienced that in the national park.

Jennifer Daring [00:23:31] Oh, yeah.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:23:32] So what are you most proud of?

Jennifer Daring [00:23:35] I’m definitely- I- I’m proud of all the cleanups. I think we’ve did a great job. Like, I think we’re over 2000 tons of trash pulled out of that lake. So, I mean, I think that’s a great, a great impact on that lake. But I’m also just proud of the group in general and where it’s going and where it’s going to go. I can’t wait to see where the next chapter is going to go, because, you know, even I don’t know that, but I think great things are coming, like, even as, like, a person of color taking over this group, you know, I’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback because, you know, before it was a very predominantly white women group. And, you know, I really kind of want to flip that role and really kind of promote inclusion and diversity. Like, this group is for everyone, just like the outdoors are for everyone.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:24:26] So you just said the word diversity. What does diversity mean to you?

Jennifer Daring [00:24:30] Diversity means to me, like. I mean, everyone, like, whether you’re, you know, Bay, Bi, Non-binary, Transgender, Black, Brown, Asian, Indian, whatever have you, wherever you came from, whatever, you know, whoever you are. Normally, you know, it’s, you know, the minority, you know, spectrum. And it’s not just based on race. It’s based on, you know, gender identity and all that stuff. I think it’s just a big old melting pot of people. 

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:25:03] Yeah. And I’m sure, you know, you’ve worked with the NPS before, and, excuse me, the National Park Service has had an extreme disconnect with hiring people of color.

Jennifer Daring [00:25:18] Yes.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:25:19] So I’m curious to hear, what are your thoughts on how can the National Park Service proactively address this situation and invite all of those diverse voices to the table?

Jennifer Daring [00:25:32] So I think it’s. It’s tricky because, you know, it would be silly to say that no one else, you know, doesn’t battle that same problem. I mean, Summit Metro Parks also battles that same problem. I think a lot of it is, you know, as much as seasonal jobs are, you know, okay, you know, I’ve been working seasonal jobs. They’re also kind of, you know, non beneficial. It’s temporary work normally. You know, think about it from like an economic standpoint. A lot of people of color, you know, are coming from a low income pay scale, you know, just due to generational upbringing and where they started. And I mean, we could dive into, you know, just how like, you know, white people made money off of slaves. You know, it just, it goes way back to then and it’s just stemmed through generations of not making the same money and say, you know, for example, a seasonal job at Summit Metro Parks may start out at like 9.75 an hour and that would be a privilege to take that job out of sheer interest. [00:26:41] Like, yeah, I like the outdoors. I want to work for this job, but only make nine something an hour and then I’m not going to have this job in six months. And then on the flip side, they could get a permanent job at McDonald’s with no education for $17 an hour. So I think, I think a lot of the problem is just being, I guess, more accommodating with their pay wages. I know parks and outdoor industry don’t get, you know, a whole lot of money, you know, whether it’s government or state, you know, money coming in. I think it’s important and pertinent to see like why people of color aren’t applying and why, you know, you can’t get these people into the parks and in park roles. I think it seriously stems from low wage pay. Like, I mean, for me, even as a person of color, you know, I took a low paying seasonal job, but I also juggled two other jobs in order to work that job just out of sheer interest. And I’m, you know, I have a bachelor’s degree and that. And that’s sad. Like I have a bachelor’s degree and I’m taking a low paying seasonal job just out of sheer interest. So I mean, I think that’s also part of the problem. 

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:27:58] Wow. I didn’t know a seasonal position in Summit Metro Parks was that low.

Jennifer Daring [00:28:05] Oh yeah, it’s terrible. And that’s like an improvement. I think. It used to be eight, something like a year ago. Yeah.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:28:19] Even our park guides start at 13, at least, $13 an hour.

Jennifer Daring [00:28:24] Yeah. 

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:28:27] Wow. So I want to go back and pick something up that I hear. So it was Green Girl Gang and it changed to Green Recreational Organization to be more gender and just more inclusive. Can you speak more to that?

Jennifer Daring [00:28:46] Actually? So I liked, I definitely wanted to keep like the renaming of the group very community oriented. So there was like, I did a, like a, like a call out on Instagram, and I said, hey, we’re going to be changing the name due to X, Y and Z. Please throw out some suggestions because, you know, we want you to feel like this is also your group, and you helped create this group and you helped rebrand this group. So we kind of, like, narrowed it down like you would do. You know, like, we started with, like, 20 suggestions, narrowed down to 10 to five, and then from there on and so forth. And so we really included everyone in the renaming. And during that process, I had so many people reach out saying, I’m so glad you’re changing the name, because I didn’t feel like the original name was inclusive or they felt it just didn’t sound like welcoming because, you know, the gang aspect. And I’m just like, oh, my gosh. All these years of it being named that. I mean, who. How many people felt like they couldn’t go because just the name all by itself. So it was a really cool experience. And that’s how I’ve done everything with the rebranding. Like, I let everyone vote on, you know, the name. I let everyone vote on, like, logos. I let everyone vote on everything just so it’s not just me picking things. I like to hear people’s feedback because, again, it’s a, it’s a we group. It’s, it’s a community.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:30:14] Okay, so backing back up to the DEI again. So, in the parks, what changes have you seen in how parks interpret diversity, equity, inclusion, how they interpret the history and how they interpret the experiences?

Jennifer Daring [00:30:36] I think they’re doing a lot better with the history, especially from, like, you know, indigenous people and Native Americans. I think they’re doing a lot better with acknowledging that, you know, the land wasn’t always our land. It was definitely, you know, their land to begin with. I. I definitely appreciate that kind of flip side to things. I think they’re, at least for the national park perspective, I think they’re being a little bit more responsible and proactive about, hey, like, we whitewashed a lot of this stuff, and we’re trying to, you know, correct that and see the error in our ways. You know, other parks, not so much. But I- I definitely see it in the national parks, and I definitely see the effort and it’s appreciated, and I definitely see it in the marketing and, like, stuff like that. But as far as, like, within the parks, I mean, I. I mean, it’s different because, like, I go to national parks all over, you know, the country, so I definitely see a lot more diversity. Like salmon, like Arches or Grand Canyon. They’re definitely like those huge touristy hub spots. But within Cuyahoga Valley National Park, I still think it’s kind of rare to see people of color within the parks. And I don’t know if that’s just due to where we are and, like, urban communities aren’t as comfortable with going in parks that I don’t know. But it could reflect that with Akron being so close and just due to a lot of low income urban areas in Akron and just they don’t go to the park just for recreation. You know, it’s. Sometimes it’s. They go for like a party and then that’s it. They don’t typically see the enjoyment of going to a park for recreation. So I don’t know if that’s part of the problem or, you know, the lack of seeing the diversity that I don’t know. But I mean, it’s definitely still lacking. Even like, I’ll- I like to go on bike rides by myself and the amount of people that I see on the bike trail is typically. They look like the retired white guy, like all suited up in his gear, passing me going so fast, and I’m like, oh, my gosh. But I mean, that’s- I mean, occasionally - you’re making Erich laugh. Good. But occasionally, like, I might see another, like, person of color, maybe if I’m lucky. But it’s normally I feel like I’m the only one.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:33:00] Come to the north end of the park, we do have a little bit more diversity. Just a few.

Jennifer Daring [00:33:05] Yeah.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:33:06] So has Northeast Ohio park outreach to communities of color changed over the years?

Jennifer Daring [00:33:13] I mean, I would say so. I think we were on the up and up. And then the last presidency kind of took everything into a giant nosedive and burnt everything into a dumpster fire. But I think before that everything was on the up and up. And, you know, I was definitely starting to see more diversity and people being more comfortable, you know, being in the parks, being, you know, a community and welcoming and kind of dabbling in things they hadn’t dabbled in before. But I definitely think, you know, we took a lot of steps back with our recent, our past presidency, and I am still like, failing to see any, you know, I guess, recovery from that. 

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:34:03] Wow. So what misconceptions have you encountered in the park community or among the park community?

Jennifer Daring [00:34:15] How do you mean?

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:34:19] So what misconceptions about people of color have you encountered in the park community? 

Jennifer Daring [00:34:30] I don’t, I don’t know if I’ve really come across any misconception. I definitely know that, you know, we’re like unicorns out there, but we do exist. I guess it’s just really kind of stepping out and finding the, you know, people of color, such as myself that also enjoy, you know, the outdoors. I mean, I think, you know, from, you know, the white perspective, I think there’s a lot of stereotypical like, oh, you know, black people don’t do this, black people don’t do that, et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, when I am on Instagram and I see all these groups, I’m like, you know, I see black or Black Girls Do Ride. I see that group, I follow Melanin Base Camp. And they’re amazing. Like, they connect you with all sorts of people of color who do awesome things outside. And then there’s like, what’s another one? There’s Black Girls Do Hike and then Black Women Explorers. Like, I find all these groups and I’m like, oh, we exist, but maybe, you know, we’re just, we’re just not well known, you know. So I think there’s still those stigmas and those stereotypes, like, you know, like any other, I guess, race or culture when, you know, we exist, we’re out here, we’re doing the same thing as everyone else. We’re just, you know, not getting, you know, the PR or the representation as, you know, the privileged white guy.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:35:56] It is spandex and- [crosstalk]

Jennifer Daring [00:36:00] Yep.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:36:04] So do you have any advice for young people just starting out in an environmental career?

Jennifer Daring [00:36:12] I would just say internship, internship, internship. Definitely don’t be afraid to do an internship. Don’t be afraid to dabble in the things that you don’t know. Like, you don’t know you might like something until you try it. Or maybe you had your heart set on doing something and it turns out you hate that. Like, you don’t want to do it. But you have so much time and so much ability to change your mind. Like, no one’s telling you have to stay in that field or stay in that job. Life is too short and make the most of it. Like, don’t be afraid of change.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:36:47] And to that end, we actually have micro internships in this national park because not everybody has the privilege of being able to stop working for- 

Jennifer Daring [00:36:57] Yes. 

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:36:58] Six months or whatever it is. So we actually have-

Jennifer Daring [00:36:59] I love that.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:37:01] Internships that are two weeks. So what did you most hope to accomplish through your work?

Jennifer Daring [00:37:09] Definitely, like, I definitely wanted to gain, you know, more hands on experience. I learned a lot as a park biologist. Like just handling wildlife I’ve never handled before, working on invasive species management, which was taxing, but. But it’s important, you know, from a conservation standpoint, it’s super important. But just like, making sure that I am being, like, a good representation as a person of color in science. Because we’re also a rare person to be in that field. Just kind of making sure that younger people see someone like them in that role and making sure that they know that that’s attainable for them, that’s not outlandish, that they can, too, do what I’m doing.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:38:01] I’m going to add a question here. I’m curious. Who do you look up to? Who are your role models or mentors?

Jennifer Daring [00:38:10] So it’s funny question. So growing up, besides my mother, my mother’s great. She’s definitely someone I look up to. She’s a wonderful soul, very smart, very intelligent. She’s my anchor, my ride or die. But in the science community, this is where it gets, you know, slightly problematic is all of my, you know, idols or my mentors and people I looked up to were like privileged white people in science. Like, whether it was Bill Nye. I freaking love Bill Nye. And then, I mean, who doesn’t love Bill Nye? And then like, you know, growing up, it was Jack Hanna or Steve Irwin or the Kratt brothers. And then, you know, the. The one which was Jane Goodall, you know, at least she’s the woman. But, like, I didn’t have, like, any people that looked like me in the science community as a role model. So, you know, nothing against them. They definitely still encouraged me to, you know, be into science, be into nature, find that interest and that, you know, that desire to want to move forward with that, you know, into a more of a career mindset. But yeah, I guess a bunch of privileged white guys, which is kind of funny.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:39:28] So we have to make our own mentors. So.

Jennifer Daring [00:39:31] Yes.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:39:32] What discourages you? I’m not going to end on that question, by the way. That’s a bummer. It’s a downer.

Jennifer Daring [00:39:39] What discourages me? I guess just, I mean, it’s silly because failure is a part of life. But I would say failure, like, no one wants to fail. That’s super discouraging. I acknowledge that, you know, failure is a part of success, but I think that’s kind of what discourages me is failure and then maybe just lack of, I don’t know, funding for things that I want to do. 

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:40:10] Understand that. So what gives you, Jennifer? Hope.

Jennifer Daring [00:40:20] What gives me hope? The fact that, you know, I’ve made it this far, Like, I’ve overcome so many challenges and obstacles and ridiculous situations where I thought I was just epically going to fail and never recover. Just knowing that I’ve always prevailed. Like, I’ve always gotten through whatever I was going through, whatever obstacle or battle I dealt with. Like, I always kind of persevered. And that was with me, like, I worked three jobs. I bought my grandmother’s house. When she passed away, I gutted that house. I renovated that house, and I was a college graduate. [laughs]

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:41:04] Wow.

Jennifer Daring [00:41:05] There was a lot of moments where I was, like, I’m going to have a mental breakdown, but I’m going to get through this. And I did. I’m in my house. I’m still working on it, but, you know, I’m here. I graduated college with almost a 4.0.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:41:22] Wow.

Jennifer Daring [00:41:23] Still. Still kicking.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:41:33] Wow. Is there anything you would like to ask us or anything else you’d like to tell us?

Jennifer Daring [00:41:41] I don’t- I mean, I don’t think so. I feel like we dabbled in a little bit of everything. I know. Yeah. I’m like. I know. I gave Erich a kind of a printout of, like, the response to the question. So you guys had both, you know, my verbal and my written responses, so.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:41:59] Well, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for your time. And thank you for being willing to move a half hour later. It’s appreciated. I want to be respectful of your time, though, since we delayed a little in our start, but thank you very much. Either Erich or myself will be sending you the release forms. Do you have a favorite picture of yourself of your excuse me, self that you would be willing to share with us?

Jennifer Daring [00:42:31] Yeah, I think. I don’t know if he needs different ones, but I sent Eric some photos already. Okay.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:42:36] Okay. That okay.

Jennifer Daring [00:42:38] Oh, yeah, he just texted me.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:42:39] He has them. Oh. Oops, sorry.

Jennifer Daring [00:42:41] That’s okay.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:42:43] All right, well, thank you so much for your time and thank you for answering these questions. Erich and I have had- We often had the conversation that after we finish these conversations, there’s so much good work going on out there. So thank you for doing what you do.

Jennifer Daring [00:43:02] Of course. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:43:05] So thank you. And stay dry out there.

Jennifer Daring [00:43:10] I know you as well.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:43:13] Have a good afternoon.

Jennifer Daring [00:43:14] Awesome. You too.

Rebecca Jones Macko [00:43:16] Bye.

Jennifer Daring [00:43:17] Bye.

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