Abstract

Theron Brown is an Akron musician and adjunct professor of jazz piano at Akron University. He was introduced to gospel, jazz and soul music growing up going to church in the 1990s. He was born and raised in Zanesville Ohio. In this oral history, he discusses his career path and the significance of jazz in Akron’s history.Theron is also the co-founder and director of the Rubber City Jazz & Blues Festival which takes place annually in Akron, Ohio’s downtown historic district. Theron was casted as a young Herbie Hancock in the 2016 film Miles Ahead, directed by and starring Don Cheadle.

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Interviewee

Brown, Theron (interviewee)

Interviewer

Rosser, Arrye (interviewer); Schnack, Erich (participant)

Project

Green Book Cleveland

Date

8-9-2023

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

94 minutes

Transcript

Arrye Rosser [00:00:01] Hello there. This is Arrye Rosser from Cuyahoga Valley National Park. I am sitting here in Stone Cottage on Hines Hill campus of Cuyahoga Valley National Park. And the date is August 9, 2023. Erich Schnack is my tech person, and today we’re going to be talking to Theron Brown, who’s a professional pianist and the founder and artistic director of Rubber City Jazz and Blues Festival, also an assistant professor of practice in Jazz Studies at the University of Akron. So welcome, Theron.

Theron Brown [00:00:40] Hello, hello.

Arrye Rosser [00:00:41] Yes.

Theron Brown [00:00:42] Good to be here.

Arrye Rosser [00:00:42] Yeah. So let’s start off. Can you give us your full name?

Theron Brown [00:00:45] Yeah, my name is Theron Brown.

Arrye Rosser [00:00:48] You have no middle name?

Theron Brown [00:00:49] I do. Okay, you want the middle name?

Arrye Rosser [00:00:51] Well, you don’t have to. [laughs]

Theron Brown [00:00:52] No, I will. You’re actually- This is the first time I’ve had that, so it’s Theron Eugene Brown.

Arrye Rosser [00:01:01] Well, welcome. [laughs] And tell us what year you were born?

Theron Brown [00:01:04] Yeah. 1986.

Arrye Rosser [00:01:05] Excellent.

Theron Brown [00:01:06] The last day of the year, too.

Arrye Rosser [00:01:07] Ah, you’re like a party.

Theron Brown [00:01:10] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Arrye Rosser [00:01:12] You’re a performer. That’s perfect.

Theron Brown [00:01:14] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:01:14] It means you always have to work on your birthday, though.

Theron Brown [00:01:17] Yeah, you’re right. It’s a celebration, though.

Arrye Rosser [00:01:20] It’s all good. Let’s start off just talking about your family and kind of where you grew up. Tell us about your parents, kind of who’s in your immediate family, what their names are, your siblings.

Theron Brown [00:02:02] Sure. My father’s name is Terrence Eugene Brown, and my mother is Denise Brown, and yeah, they live in Zanesville, Ohio. That’s where I was born. And my father’s a pastor, and that’s where I first got my, I guess, musical sensibility was just hearing music at church. My mother would sing at home. We had a piano at home as well. So, you know, being a PK, as they call them, preacher’s kid, we were at church every day of the week, pretty much, and I would get bored sometimes and just mess around on the instruments, even from being a toddler.

Arrye Rosser [00:02:20] Were there other people who were musicians or singers in your family?

Theron Brown [00:02:24] No, no, just, I think just being surrounded by them at church. I have a younger sister and an older brother, too, and they didn’t play music or anything like that. I think my brother did for a little bit, but didn’t stick with it.

Arrye Rosser [00:02:42] Yeah. That’s interesting that you’re the, like, just- Was there, like, other family members in the, like, farther extended family that got you thinking about it?

Theron Brown [00:03:19] Yeah, well, I heard my grandfather played piano, which I never met him. He passed before my time, but he- I- My mom would tell me that he’d go out late nights and play. And my mother was originally from Alabama. Really small town called Clayton, Alabama. And he would go out and play and, you know, he made moonshine. That was a thing at the time. So I don’t know how I wish I could have heard him. That would have been really interesting because the music of that, of his time would have been the era that I’m studying and, you know, that I’m attracted to actually. So maybe there is something genetically.

Arrye Rosser [00:03:40] That’s crazy. What- So is the piano-playing grandfather, your mom’s dad, and what was his name, do you know?

Theron Brown [00:03:48] Monroe. Monroe Fryer. I haven’t said his name in a while.

Arrye Rosser [00:03:54] Is it F, R, Y, E, R?

Theron Brown [00:03:56] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:03:56] Monroe Fryer. And from Clayton, Alabama? Where was your dad’s family from?

Theron Brown [00:04:02] Youngstown. Oh yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:04:05] Do you know where they come from? Farther back? Are they still?

Theron Brown [00:04:08] Well, my father was a foster child and my mom moved up here. She was one of 10 kids, so I think she lived in Akron first for a little bit and then my dad moved to Akron and they ended up meeting and, you know, the relationship happened, all that. And they ended up moving to Zanesville.

Arrye Rosser [00:04:59] Yeah. That’s interesting. Like they were- I was expecting you to because I read your biography, you know, online and I was thinking that they were more settled in Zanesville and that would be like the home of the family. But they really were coming out of Akron and moving to Zanesville. Were they moving there for your dad’s work? Did he get a job kind of as a pastor in Zanesville?

Theron Brown [00:05:27] He did for a long time. Wow. I haven’t talked about this stuff or even thought about it for a while. He worked at a place called Mattingly’s Food and I believe he would work in the freezers, like packing up food to load on the trucks. And he would work nights and then do the church thing during the day. That’s what I remember is that he wasn’t home a lot. He’d get off sleep. I’d probably get home from school, he’d wake up, eat dinner and then we’d go to church.

Arrye Rosser [00:05:41] Was your mom working too?

Theron Brown [00:05:42] She wasn’t. She would sometimes clean houses or just hang out at the house. Yeah. After a while though, he stopped working there. Retired from that. He’s just full-time pastor. I forget how old I was when that kind of happened. Probably around six or seven years old.

Arrye Rosser [00:06:06] What year, ish, would that be?

Theron Brown [00:06:09] Would have been in the ’90s, maybe ’93, ’94. Around. My sister was born.

Arrye Rosser [00:06:17] And how did your family- Were your family in Akron for a while prior to that? Like, were they just kind of in for a couple years like your mom?

Theron Brown [00:06:29] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:06:29] How long was she settled in Akron?

Theron Brown [00:07:01] I’d have to ask her about that, actually. But I believe when my parents met, it had to be- Okay. So I remember this story she would tell me that she would- My grandmother would send her up because she’s one of 10, so the age gap is crazy. So she would stay with my Aunt Versi, who’s passed, and she would kind of act as a mother figure. So my mom was like 14, maybe 12 to 16 when she was coming up here, and she just ended up staying.

Theron Brown [00:08:00] My uncle Bill actually lives here. He still lives here too. I have quite a bit of family now that I think about that does live here on my mom’s side. So, yeah, I think they. It was part of that era where Blacks were migrating, you know, for of course, reasons. You know, I think my mom faced certain things in the South from the Black people and the white people, because she was actually light-skinned. She’s the lightest of all of them, which is why I get my complexion. You know, they all have this kind of sandy- The sisters have this sandy brown tint and the brothers were all darker, you know, but she was the lightest of all of them. I think she- It was better for coming up here.

Arrye Rosser [00:08:03] It is. Do you have a sense of, like, what time period your mom came up? Like in terms of years?

Theron Brown [00:08:10] It had to be ’70s.

Arrye Rosser [00:08:12] Yeah.

Theron Brown [00:08:12] ’80s.

Arrye Rosser [00:08:13] So she was cut. And that’s when she moved up kind of as a younger person. Yeah.

Theron Brown [00:08:18] And then-

Arrye Rosser [00:08:21] But she had family that she was visiting that was kind of bringing her up, like, so it was her aunt? Am I getting that right?

Theron Brown [00:08:28] Yeah, well, my aunt- It was her sister.

Arrye Rosser [00:08:30] Her sister. Yeah. Gotcha. So, yeah, because she’s got the big- She’s got all the siblings. Right. So some of them are quite a bit older.

Theron Brown [00:08:37] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:08:37] When did they start moving? Like, do you have any sense of when the first ones came up? Were they coming in the ’50s or is that too early?

Theron Brown [00:08:45] It would have had to been, I’d say ’60s sounds good.

Arrye Rosser [00:09:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s- It’s interesting. It’s interesting. It’s Alabama, actually, because we’ve been doing other oral histories and people in Cleveland are telling us that Cleveland was considered Alabama of the North. And so maybe it was kind of like spilling a little bit into Akron, which has a little bit of a different history because you’re a little bit later, maybe. So that’s- Yeah. Thank you for sort of diving into that. Maybe talk a little bit about, like, the music side of- I’m curious about you having a piano in the house growing up. But your other family members were musicians. Did they get the piano for you?

Theron Brown [00:11:38] No, it was there. It was actually one of my mother’s. Oh, no, my mom, that was- She just loved music and she always wanted a piano in the house. So she- That was one of the purchases she made. And it was a player piano, right. So you press a couple buttons and you put the little scroll of music in that has these cutout dots and it’ll play it like these old- If you imagine, like Jelly Roll Morton or something, that music from the ’20s and ’30s when they were making that, I never heard it because it broke down and my mom took it to get it fixed. And you gotta imagine like, this is probably in the ’80s when she was getting it fixed before I was born, ’86 was when I was born. So she was trying to have it fixed. The guy, she believes, lied to her and told him, told her that it was unfixable. Later she found out how. Because she watched those auction shows on TV and she found out how much that thing was worth. And she thinks that he just stole it off of her. Like, you know, so I never got to hear it. But the piano was always in the house. And she wanted to learn because her dad played. And that’s one of the memories that she has. Me, I was just kind of a, I think, strange child. Thought- Not strange, just thought from a different side of the brain. And because I was, you know, kind of played by yourself a lot, that was something that attracted me. I heard music, you know, and I could figure it out. So I started figuring out the things on that piano by ear. And she would have it tuned every so often. I remember I did have formal lessons at a point in time, but I wasn’t a very good student when it came to piano lessons. Viola I did okay. So I just taught myself all the way until I was 18.

Arrye Rosser [00:11:46] Wow, that’s amazing. Do you know what kind of music your grandfather played? Did you ever hear?

Theron Brown [00:11:52] I’m guessing it had to be some kind of blues. Nothing to- Even though- Well, Mom said he dabbled in jazz, so maybe it was. You know, I kind of see those things as all encompassing back then. I just- He played the pop music of that time, so it could have been Alabama. So maybe I’m thinking more towards blues-formed music.

Arrye Rosser [00:12:18] What timeframe would he have been playing, like, roughly speaking, like decades-wise?

Theron Brown [00:12:23] Had to been, oh, my, ’50s, ’40s. Oh, my gosh. I gotta find out when. When he was born because he was much older than my grandmother. Much older. And had two children before the ten that he had with her. I have to find that out. He could have been born in the early 1900s.

Arrye Rosser [00:13:00] Yeah. Yeah. We can follow up with you about that. That would be interesting to know. Do you feel like that was an important part of getting in your head about somebody being a musician? Because hearing about your grandfather, or was it just kind of maybe not a key thing in it?

Theron Brown [00:15:47] No, I think we had really good musicians at church. Marsha Gaiters. This was before my dad started being a pastor. Bishop Gaiters. And Marsha Gaiters, she was the one who played the organ. And she was just one of the best in Ohio at that time, too. She had the sound of gospel, like, I remember it now so clear. And even when she left and she passed it on to my dad, there was a point in time, and I was very young, around 2, 3 years old when my dad started pastoring, that we didn’t have a musician. So she made these tapes, her and her son Jay Gaiters, who, as a drummer, which later you’ll hear how I got into jazz. He was a key component to that, but he was very good. And they would record these tapes that the choir could sing to. So I still had that sound in my ear. It was a shock, though, when she left to me, because that was, you know, you think about. You go to church, you’re hearing the same sound, you know, and it’s polished, it’s really good. And then there’s times that they’re just singing and there’s no organ beat. Hammond beat three organizations, so you noticed that. And then, you know, that was around when I was tinkering around on the piano. And after church sometimes I’d try to figure out the songs. And then we had another musician come in when I was around 5 or 6, and that was Esther Banks, who she just passed away maybe two years ago. Her son and ex husband also played piano. And she would bring Kenny Banks Jr. Who was her son, to the church. And I remember hearing them. And once I saw him, we were the same age. Once I saw him get on the piano, being, you know, 7, 8, 9 years old, he would only come every now and then. I saw him getting better. It was like, there’s a kid my age that’s playing, he’s playing all these cool songs and, you know, I didn’t know it could be this fulfilling, you know. And I was starting to get attention at school because I played piano. You know, I could play popular songs. So I think that’s what intrigued me was just seeing somebody at that young age that was really good. And his mother played. It was like, oh, okay. And they showed me some stuff and I just work on it and then add my own thing to it. And, man, Kenny Banks, now he’s like big time. Kenny Banks Jr. He’s playing all over the world. Great jazz musician. So it’s kind of an interesting story.

Arrye Rosser [00:16:10] That’s crazy. Tell me the name of your church, just so I get that.

Theron Brown [00:16:15] Greater Apostolic Church of Christ.

Arrye Rosser [00:16:19] And was it like an established church there for a long time? It must have been if they had the organ and that kind of thing.

Theron Brown [00:16:27] It’s been there. I have to check on that. But it started on a different street by Bishop Gaiters’s mother, I believe, which is a big family in the Pentecostal Assemblies of Ohio. Like, it’s a huge family. But she started that church and, yeah, that had been a long time ago.

Arrye Rosser [00:16:53] Was it, like, majority African American congregation?

Theron Brown [00:16:57] Earlier, but it definitely integrated. I always remembered it being integrated when I was younger.

Arrye Rosser [00:17:08] Is there a large Black population in Zanesville?

Theron Brown [00:17:10] I don’t know much about it, no. But they’ve mixed and swirled a lot.

Arrye Rosser [00:17:20] I was telling you about Gail Hazelwood, who’s retired from the National Park Service. She was the head of the Urban Agenda. She got her first seasonal job here. She’s from Cambridge.

Theron Brown [00:17:30] Okay. Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:17:31] And she got recruited to come here. So it made me think a little bit about kind of the African American community in that part of Ohio.

Theron Brown [00:17:39] Yeah, yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:17:40] Very cool. Let’s kind of jump ahead a little bit and- Well, actually, I want to ask you some other things. So what did you do for fun growing up? Just like, did you have any outdoor kinds of things? We’re park people, so we always like to ask about parks.

Theron Brown [00:17:55] Absolutely.

Arrye Rosser [00:17:56] All that kind of stuff.

Theron Brown [00:19:09] I really like basketball. I never- Well, I played some organized basketball. Let’s see. Yeah, I played in an All-Star, like, AAU team, but I was terrible. Like, I never got in. It was called Ohio Express and we, like, won some championships and stuff, but I didn’t do anything. I was terrible. I think I was like fifth or sixth grade and just, you know, backwards little confused kid. And then I went to junior high and I tried out for that basketball team, which was Grover Washington or wait, no, it was just Grove. Yeah. Anyways, we just called it Grover. And I played on that team for two years. Started getting better because I had a little growth spurt. And then after that, I stopped. I just went straight into music because I broke my wrist my freshman year. And I was like, okay, let me make a choice here. But then I played street ball for a long time, and I was really good. Then I started dunking, which was cool. And I rode my bike all the time. That was my favorite thing from being in grade school, even up to high school.

Arrye Rosser [00:19:18] That’s cool. Let me go back to- When did you start playing music? Like, when- What are your first memories of playing music?

Theron Brown [00:19:50] When I first started playing in church, actually started on drums. And I was about- I could play in service when I was five years old. Yeah. And then I switched to piano in church. I probably played my first- I would do, like, little talent shows and stuff that we had. But when I played the first service, it was a night service. I had been like eight or nine. I couldn’t play in every key. You know, it was. You know, if I could hear it and I was comfortable and I knew the chords in that key, then I would just play. But, you know, I was still trying to figure it out.

Arrye Rosser [00:20:08] How did you teach yourself how to play music? I was never good at music, so it’s hard. My parents are musical in some ways. But how did you, like, did you learn how to read music or were you doing everything by ear?

Theron Brown [00:20:42] Yeah, it was all by ear. I don’t know. I often think about this because I find myself doing it now where you just- Your fingers and your- Feel the feeling between your brain and your heart and your fingers just kind of guide you. That’s like that magical place where you’re- It’s a kind of a mystery still when you’re improvising. And it’s only till later when you put the definition to it.

Arrye Rosser [00:20:52] Right.

Theron Brown [00:22:07] So, for example, like, my children now know how to talk, but they don’t know how to read, right. They learn by ear. So I think my brain, like, started categorizing certain musical things that I could recognize. Where, you know, usually we think melodies like happy birthday to you. Everybody can sing that and learn that. Right? But now, what’s the chord structure under it? You know, even though I didn’t know that term, chord structure, it still clicked for me. Like, there’s something else going on besides this melody that adds support. Oh, there’s a low note, there’s a middle note, and there’s an upper note kind of like how when I hear the choir, I hear a low note, middle note, and my brain just started putting those things together. So I would figure out the melody and then figure out what the choir was singing and then figure out the bass note because that would tell. Give the support to everything. So it’s more like imaginative. And now, you know, I have the knowledge behind it. Just like a child will learn. Okay, I’m five years old. Well, how do you spell five? You know, I’m Theron. How do you spell that? Those, those building blocks? Then you just forget it, you know, you forget it again and you just talk and you just write.

Arrye Rosser [00:22:20] Yeah, yeah. Was there a time in school where like the school system was supporting your kind of learning music?

Theron Brown [00:22:32] Yeah, not so much on my piano and drums. That was more like. I call it learning from the streets. In school I ended up taking viola of all things. And funny enough, I played that from. When did I start that? Fourth grade. Fourth grade to 12th grade. And I was always pretty good at it to the point where I was going to go to college for it actually, and just decided to go to jazz.

Arrye Rosser [00:23:03] Yeah. Was it just kind of like the bias of the school system kind of looking at the classical music structure? But were you doing pops music too at that time?

Theron Brown [00:23:18] Not until high school because I showed interest in jazz my junior year and they were like, yeah, why don’t you play in the band? They had like an after-school jazz band. I remember they put that music in front of me. It was the first time I saw like what jazz music looks like written down. And it freaked me out. I was like, guys, I gotta hear this. I could only play by ear. I don’t know, G minor flat, you know, six and stuff, all that. So, yeah, it didn’t cater to kids like me. It was more for reading, which I needed that. The introduction of, you know, viola and that alto clef really helped me get my eyes together at least.

Arrye Rosser [00:24:03] Yeah. Did you learn how to read music from that, or do you read music now? I know that’s always kind of one of those things with musicians. 

Theron Brown [00:24:14] Because I got a late start, I wasn’t the strongest reader, but. But once I got into college, that had to change immediately because you just have to read and then. Yeah, it’s just gotten a little bit. It’s still something I work on because, I mean, there are really great readers out there that can put it in front of them and they’ll just play it. That’s not me. I think I’m more of an interpreter, and I’ve gotta take my time more because I didn’t work on it in those formative years.

Arrye Rosser [00:24:44] Yeah, that’s interesting. Tell us a little bit about kind of going off to university and kind of what you studied in that period of your life.

Theron Brown [00:24:54] Yeah. So I was looking at schools, mainly Ohio State, Oberlin and Akron, and I even think Youngstown State at one time. And initially I was going to go for actually viola. You know, I got a scholarship to Ohio State. But my senior year, I had a teacher for what was called String Fling, which was a week camp that we did. And he heard me. I would play the piano before rehearsals. And he heard me. Second day, he was like, have you ever thought about getting into jazz? Like, you’re playing some nice chords. No way. That’s the devil’s music. [laughs] Like, you know, I’m a church boy. But he ended up bringing me a book, which I still have to this day, and a cd. And it was the Thelonious Monk book. And it had all of his. It was like a fake book. It had all of his songs in it written out with Jazz chords and the melodies. And then the CD had a lot of those songs that he recorded so I could listen to them. But the most important part was reading about Thelonious Life and other- I could relate to it. So I started dabbling in- Next thing you know, that summer I did my auditions on jazz piano because I figured out some stuff. I was like, oh, this is that. And again, categorizing for myself. Oberlin didn’t work out because of reading and lack of experience sing for Ohio State. But Akron, Jack Schontz saw the potential and had some good scholarship money, of course. And I was able to attend UA. The cool thing was, too, that since I had my church background, I was able to play at churches up here. So that was instant employment for me. You know, it was like a circuit. My dad, I was like, Dad, yeah, what churches up there could I play at? And he gave me a few, talked to the pastors and I had a gig. And that was key for me because I was- Think about it. I just decided, I’m going to do jazz. First time, me moving out of the house, I don’t know what I’m doing. So the church grounded me and was also- I had a real bad breakup my freshman year, which was terrible, [laughs] but I did well. I was excelling at school, playing well, and the church actually wanted to keep me up here over the summer. So they got me an apartment and still paid me. I still had a salary. So with that, I was still able to engulf myself in the scene, be able to practice, stay focused. During the summer, I would take trips to Cleveland to go to clubs. This was all like my freshman, sophomore, junior year, and played with a blues band, the Howard Street Blues Band, which was Howard Robinson. He was an important name in Akron, but he was hard on me. Some of those gigs would only pay, like, $25, $75. I think he was- He may have been cheating me, too, God rest his soul. [laughs] But, you know, looking back, I’m like, I’m not a kid anymore. I think we made more that. But my gosh, if I didn’t have that time to experience and be mentored by older folks in the scene that’s been around and just raw. Okay, do it. I’m learning at school, but also at night, I’m in school again. That’s how I think my playing got better, faster.

Arrye Rosser [00:28:55] What was the time period of when you were in school at the University of Akron?

Theron Brown [00:28:59] Yeah, I started UA in 2005 in the Jazz Studies program.

Arrye Rosser [00:29:09] It’s fascinating that you’re now you’re leading the Jazz Studies program. Like, who would have thunk it, right?

Theron Brown [00:29:18] Yeah, it was pretty out-

Arrye Rosser [00:29:20] Yeah. Did you- So you went there to study jazz piano. That was kind of where you were leading into- It’s pretty amazing that you were kind of a viola player and you did that pivot. How old were you at that- Were you 18 at that time when you were getting ready for your auditions, or was it 17?

Theron Brown [00:29:41] I would have been 18.

Arrye Rosser [00:29:42] Yeah. Were there any other special people that kind of helped you on your journey?

Theron Brown [00:29:50] Yeah. Cassandra McDonald in high school. Again, I wasn’t a very good student, but I would go over to her house and she would teach me, like, how to read piano music. I always had trouble with the bass clef, but I would kind of cheat. Like, I would listen to her play it and remember the notes or the fingerings while she’s showing it to me. And I think I’ve always been a musical person, so I can make it sound good from the beginning, like, once I learned it. So I learned all those, like, 101 Chopin pieces, but you put something in front of me, it would take a long time, you know, but she was great. Yeah. She has passed away maybe a few years ago.

Arrye Rosser [00:30:40] Was she, like, a member of the community?

Theron Brown [00:30:44] Yeah, her husband, Nathan McDonald, was actually a pastor, and we were, you know, he was across town, and we were what you call sister churches, I’ve heard. And she was very good church organist, but her main thing was like opera singing and classical piano. She dabbled in the gospel.

Arrye Rosser [00:31:12] How did she get introduced to her? Was it just kind of- Was it a formal way of somebody like, Theron, you need to go talk to Cassandra?

Theron Brown [00:31:20] I’ve always known her because we’d be at, you know, my dad’s a pastor and then she’s the first lady of that church. So any kind of meetings, like even sometimes we’d go over the service that services that they’d have during the week. I remember going over and, you know, they’d have maybe a revival and we’d be invited. I listened to her play, so. And I was bold back then. If there was a keyboard or piano, I’m going up to it, like since I was a little kid, doesn’t matter, like, because everybody would encourage me to, yeah, go play, you know. So obviously if I’m at her church, I’m going to play and she’s going to see it and that’s a spark, you know, like, oh, he’s interested in this. So, yeah, I’ve- Since I was little, she’s just been there, you know?

Arrye Rosser [00:32:09] Did you play at her church too, as a guest person?

Theron Brown [00:32:13] Yeah, I have.

Arrye Rosser [00:32:14] That’s really sweet. Tell me a little more about what attracted you to jazz?

Theron Brown [00:32:23] Yeah, I think just- Well, I like the chords. I heard so many cool chords in the gospel. That’s more of what you kind of do. It’s not like a lick playing licks, it’s not a lick based music playing runs and stuff. So I want to take the jazz chords. I could hear the energy between both genres of music. Like they definitely come from that same foundation of blues. So initially I thought, oh, you know, I’m going to be a church player. I want to be the best gospel organist, you know, so let me down. I’m hearing the jazz stuff. If I get the jazz stuff, I can add this into my gospel playing. Which is why I always say I ended up staying in the dark side, like tasted the wine and couldn’t leave. [laughs] But honestly, it’s like I see it as all the same thing. What I ended up finding in jazz was expression that I fulfilled like that void. I’m literally able to, because I have a grasp on the language and still working on it, of course, big time. But I can manipulate that and create. And if I keep working on that, that just makes me feel good to say it at the most fundamental level, you know, but also, you know, I get to. Once I realized that I could connect to people, like I’m playing in public and getting certain responses and meetings. I always like playing with friends. You know, that’s not something I had in Zanesville, but when I came up here, it was like, immediately, that’s what you do. You get some buddies together, and now you can book a gig and make money that way, too, while you’re in college. It was like a progression of just, wow, [laughs] I love this. I love this. I love this. 

Arrye Rosser [00:34:23] You know, I think that’s, you know, it is interesting. Like, when you think about a lot of careers, you can’t, as a young person, at 18 or 19 or whatever, you can’t just turn around, make money in your area. You know, you’re flipping burgers or whatever else you’re doing to make ends meet. You’re not really. I think that’s fascinating how they- There’s just sort of more of a scaffolding for you to be able to kind of work your way up and kind of hone your craft. Were there any, like, kind of early breaks that you think back on and you’re like, oh, yeah, thank you for giving me that opportunity or whatever? Like, things that were those pivotal moments in your life?

Theron Brown [00:35:06] Absolutely. Josh Rzepka, who’s a really good friend of mine, we still play together now. I think he’s about two years older than me, but he went to Oberlin, and he’s from Akron. He’s got a big family here. And somehow maybe, I think it was through Dan Wilson, like, he heard about me, but he ended up one time. How did we meet? Well, anyways, I think there was one time that he took me around. He was like, yeah, you got me. All the cats here in Akron and in Cleveland. We took a weekend. I just remember going to a couple places here. And this will tell you something. This was during a time when I was playing back then, 2005, five sixish, there was still people smoking inside, cigarettes. I think that ended around that time. Like, I just remember, like, I had really big hair back then, and I have to wash it on Saturday night to go to church. So I didn’t, you know, smell like I’d been in a club all night, you know, [laughs] which I was. So. Yeah, I just- I remember that vividly. But he took me to some places. Was it Jillian’s here? It was like a pool spot downtown. That was a place that I ended up playing later in Cleveland. I ended up meeting all these musicians, probably about four different places, and I sat in and played. Next thing you know, they’re calling me for gigs. And that’s when it exploded, I was playing, playing back then in 2006, close to every night, because I had church rehearsals and stuff too. Sometimes two, three times in a day. Like, I have gigs between Cleveland and Akron. It could be a private party, it could be a wedding. It could have been a country club that I booked and just led to some because there weren’t a lot of piano players, especially young people, they wanted. The community was so surrounding, like they- Because that’s the next generation. We want you to, you know, have the support. So I remember that was a pivotal evening for me because my calendar just- It did not, you know, there were no holes. And I was making a ton of money too, you know? [laughs] Those gigs back then would pay 100 to 150. And solo piano gigs that I remember this particular country club, I did it every Friday for a summer. And that was my practice gig because those people weren’t listening. They were just hanging out, drinking. And I’d be practicing songs and I put out a tip jar. I’d make probably 200 a couple nights. I walked out of there with $600, $700. As a 20 year old, like, [laughs] that was great.

Arrye Rosser [00:38:12] I’m like struck by how often, you know, if you’re, like, think of the classic parents when you’re with your artistic kid and they’re not artistic necessarily, and they’d be like, I want to go and be a musician and maybe can you really make a living? And you’re like, bam, making a living. [laughs] Like, yeah, right. Right off the bat.

Theron Brown [00:38:35] Yeah, it’s cool. I remember when I got my apartment because I moved out of the dorms and they put me in an apartment. I was like, I stopped playing at that church after a while. Changed churches because got hired at a bigger church, made more. And it was like, yeah, I can pay for my own place. I didn’t have- Car broke down. I had some money saved up because my dad, he did make sure that, you know, he had access to my accounts.

Arrye Rosser [00:38:58] Yeah.

Theron Brown [00:38:59] Made sure that he monitored it. And I learned, you know, how to do my finances.

Arrye Rosser [00:39:05] Well, you’re- Do you feel like your church sounds like your church community has always been like supporting you? Were they ever, like, he’s going off into the jazz thing or everybody’s always kind of comfortable about that? You know what I mean?

Theron Brown [00:39:21] Yeah. Maybe I would lean on the yes just because our church was pretty old school and that’s assertive idea to put on everybody, you know. But I think, you know, now you look at my career and yeah, there can be things that rub against the religion a bit, but I think everybody’s cool and accepting, you know?

Arrye Rosser [00:39:51] Yeah. Oh, they gotta be so proud of you there?

Theron Brown [00:39:54] Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Arrye Rosser [00:39:55] Yeah. Like it’s, it’s- Tell me a little bit about some of your most kind of memorable, like, collaborations and performances, maybe starting out in kind of the earlier ones and going into the labs. Just some of the cool places you played, people you played with.

Theron Brown [00:40:11] Yeah, I- In those formative years, probably 2008, when LeBron was at the Cavs - yeah, he was there for a couple years - I was in a band called- Oh, gosh, I gotta remember the name. Catwalk Blue. It’s a funny name. And it was more of a pop, like, top 40s and original rockish type group. And we got to play every home game and that was amazing. That was when the Cavs were just, you know, it was popping up there. We played every home game and sometimes we play like a halftime show, but mostly it’d be right before the game starts. Like right up to tip off. We’re playing songs, getting people like hyped up and everything. We had a sax player, vocalist, bass, drums, guitar and keys. I was on keyboards and that was just the best because I could play that gig and if I wanted to, I could stay and watch the game. They had all this food set up for us that we had access to and drinks, of course. Or I could book another gig and make some more money [laughs] because that gig would be over by, like tipoff is usually around 7:30, 8 o’clock. I could run and play something else in Cleveland because I could leave my keyboard there too, which was nice. But when LeBron left, that’s when that gig left [laughs] because I think a lot of money too. Then after that I ended up, actually dropped out of school for a bit and went on tour with the Glen Miller Orchestra and we ended up going- That took me all around the world.

Arrye Rosser [00:42:02] I was wondering kind of how you got into a lot of those global performances. What were the- So the years for the Cavs was 2008ish, something like that?

Theron Brown [00:42:13] Yeah, whenever LeBron was there, literally like I got that gig when he was there and then when he left that gig.

Arrye Rosser [00:42:20] Yeah. How long did you play that gig? Like how many years was it?

Theron Brown [00:42:23] I want to say two, if he was- Yeah, I think he was there. [laughs] Maybe we’ll check.

Arrye Rosser [00:42:32] But where does some- How did you get that gig? Like, how did they even pick you guys out of anyone that it could have been?

Theron Brown [00:42:39] I think that band was just up for another keyboard player. And they had been playing it, and I had played with every musician that plays in that band. And they were like, oh, you got to get Theron. That’s literally how I get every gig. It’s through a connection. Somebody heard me, somebody knows me. It’s a buddy that I’ve played with in the years past. And, yeah, it’s just recommendation.

Arrye Rosser [00:43:08] So how did you end up in the Glenn Miller Band?

Theron Brown [00:43:13] Recommendation. [laughs] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:43:16] What was it based out of? Like, where’s the home of it?

Theron Brown [00:43:21] Oh, great question. Florida somewhere. Yeah. But what happened was- This is interesting because I was in a, between a rock and a hard place with school. I- You know, my grandmother was on her death bed. And she ended up passing. And I found out that some of my credits, I was over credited, which means I would have to pay money because I was involved in a lot at University of Akron. And I was just like, okay, I need to take a step away, because, you know, there’s a lot going on on both sides of life. And my grandmother always said, like, actually, she said this to me last time I talked to her on the phone. She was like, we’re gonna see you on TV. You’re gonna travel the world. You know, just all these affirmations and just- I love my grandmother. You know, she- We had an interesting relationship that was- She was quiet, so it was just- It’s hard to describe.

Arrye Rosser [00:44:20] What was her name?

Theron Brown [00:44:21] Carrie.

Arrye Rosser [00:44:22] Is she married to the Rose? Is your mom’s mom?

Theron Brown [00:44:26] Yeah. I never met my father because he was a-

Arrye Rosser [00:44:32] He was a foster child.

Theron Brown [00:44:33] Yeah. His mom was Jessica. Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:44:37] Yeah. So she was married to musicians, so, you know, she had that kind of sense of what it could be.

Theron Brown [00:44:46] Yeah, yeah. So she- Yeah, she told me that. And then when she passed, literally the- Because we drove to Alabama, we were driving back, and I got a call, and my parents knew this. I was- I got out of school to go down and bury her and everything. So I got the call that, hey, yeah, you were recommended for Glen Miller Orchestra. I want to see if you- Okay, well, when does it start? Next week. Do you have a passport? No, but I think I want to do this. [laughs] And I talked to my mom about it that day. Like, while we’re driving back to Ohio, you know, everything lined up. They had faith in it that I did make a promise that I’d go back and finish at some point. So I remember my uncle picked me up to take me to Detroit to get a passport real quick, and I was gone the next week. They sent the music. I remember practicing, like, in the car. Oh, yeah, that’s what it was. My dad had to drop me off in Asheville, was the first city. Carolina.

Arrye Rosser [00:46:03] Yeah. North Carolina. Yeah. My cousin’s a professional musician there.

Theron Brown [00:46:07] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:46:07] Crazy.

Theron Brown [00:46:29] Yeah. And we- Yeah, he dropped me off there. Next thing I know, we did a couple hits in America. Then we went to Canada, came for like two weeks, which is why I needed that passport. And then came back to America. And the next thing you know, I think in January was when I went. I got to go to Japan.

Arrye Rosser [00:46:31] What years was that like? When did you join?

Theron Brown [00:46:35] 2010 to 2011.

Arrye Rosser [00:46:40] Was it a year? Like a year?

Theron Brown [00:46:41] A year? Some change?

Arrye Rosser [00:46:43] Yeah, a year plus about a year.

Theron Brown [00:46:44] And yeah, some months.

Arrye Rosser [00:46:46] How did you end up in Japan like this? It was part of that extra, [crosstalk] like always playing, resembling the music, musicians kind of always together or did it kind of split up? I think-

Theron Brown [00:46:56] No, we stayed on the road. That band was year round. Like we had a date in a different city, like every day, every other day. So I wasn’t home for a year, maybe for like Christmas or something. But other than that, that band tours the world. When we were in Japan, that was for a whole month. And we went all up and down [laughs] and even to the island, you know. Some of the best food I’ve ever had in my life too. But yeah, that served its time and I had to get back to land. Then I did a cruise ship where I was kind of like a music director. And that was- What was it called? It was a steamboat. The Mississippi Queen? Yeah, it was a big steamboat that went from New Orleans all the way up to like Pennsylvania, even hit the Ohio River. I did that for a year while living in New York too.

Arrye Rosser [00:48:01] Wow. Were there musicians that you met in these kind of bigger efforts? You’re sort of like spreading your wings and traveling more. Did it, like, looking back on it, do you still stay in touch with those musicians and has that led to other things?

Theron Brown [00:48:19] No, I think- I mean, I follow a lot of them on like social media. We stay, but we don’t ever stay in touch, really. I guess for me that was an interesting time because that band, there were a lot of- It was spread demographically, so, like, I was young now.

Arrye Rosser [00:48:42] Were you like the baby of the group?

Theron Brown [00:48:44] Absolutely. I was the youngest and I was crazy then too. Yeah, I’m a little town guy still, but now I’m seeing the world, so. [laughs] And there’s a lot of seasoned people from, literally, I think the oldest person on that band had to be in their 70s. And I was the youngest and everything in between and every type of person too. You couldn’t imagine. Like, there was a trombone player from Alaska. Like, he lives in Alaska. [laughs]

Arrye Rosser [00:49:14] How many people are in the band? Like, how big is it?

Theron Brown [00:49:17] That band would have been 18? Yeah, about 18.

Arrye Rosser [00:49:21] Yeah. Did they mentor you quite a bit? Like, it must have been crazy to be traveling when you kind of- Had you been out of Ohio before?

Theron Brown [00:49:30] Yeah, I’ve been out of Ohio. Just not out of the country. Yeah. But yeah, they-

Arrye Rosser [00:49:35] Because you’re going to Alabama all the time, too. [crosstalk] Exactly.

Theron Brown [00:49:38] But they- It wasn’t- I mean, you had to play the music, and the mentoring was like, just fitting into that and figuring it out. Because, I mean, that’s. You’re talking ’30s music, like, ’20s. To really get next to that. I mean, you have to know what’s going on during that time, relate to it in a certain way. So a lot of the way I played, I had to change for that gig. And it did get on my nerves after a while because I think I wanted to go a different direction musically.

Arrye Rosser [00:50:13] Yeah. Was it different again with the Mississippi Queen? Like, you’re kind of-

Theron Brown [00:50:20] That was more of like, straight-ahead jazz. You could play some cocktail stuff. But then there were produced shows, too, which I played piano for that. The band would just be like, piano, bass, drums, guitar, couple horns, maybe sax and trumpet. And then there would be about four what do you call them? Just performers. They’re just all around performers that sing, dance, you know, do, like, plays and skits and things like that. So it would be a produced show. We’re on the river, and each town, you know, we might have a theme that goes along with that, that depicts the story. Like maybe music around the time of- What’s the writer?

Arrye Rosser [00:51:14] Was it-

Theron Brown [00:51:16] That was- 

Arrye Rosser [00:51:18] Probably Mark Twain? 

Theron Brown [00:51:19] Mark Twain. Thank you. [crosstalk] It was a big deal on that boat, you know. And I always had fun when the Mark Twain impersonator came by. He looked just like him, too. It was cool.

Arrye Rosser [00:51:32] How did you end up- I’m curious how you ended up staying in Akron. Like, what kind of grounded you with all these travels? Because obviously you could have just kept on going.

Theron Brown [00:51:42] Yeah. Well, I thought about New York. I started talking to my wife around 2010, when I first left, and I actually known her all my life. We both grew up in Zanesville, and she ended up moving to Columbus and working there. But I came back home and we ended up, you know, kicking it off probably about 2009 or ’10. And then I left. And throughout those two years, you know, did the Glenn Miller Orchestra and Then the boat. And I lived in New York. And then we were boyfriend, girlfriend. She would come up and visit. And we were thinking about moving to New York. But we also knew that we wanted to have a family, you know, get married, have a family. And we thought that Ohio would be the best idea. Plus, I hadn’t finished my degree yet, and it would be very easy for her to stay in Ohio. And I moved back to Akron, finish that up. You know, we’re still engaged and all that stuff. So that’s what we did. I finished at Akron, moved back. That’s when I lived with Dan Wilson, the famous Akron guitarist now. [laughs] And yeah, that was in 2013.

Arrye Rosser [00:53:05] How did that come to be?

Theron Brown [00:53:07] I met Dan Wilson before I left. We were playing together, but he was still a bachelor. And I was looking for somebody to live with while I finished school. And Tony, we were just boyfriend and girlfriend. She still lived in Columbus. So I hit up- I think I just told Dan that I was moving back as a friend. And he was like, well, you know, me and Brett, that was the guy he lived with. We got an extra room. I was like, no, get out of here. So we ended up signing the lease and I put my stuff on the U-Haul and moved in. I remember how stressful that was too. I hated moving out of New York. It’s a lot.

Arrye Rosser [00:53:47] Yeah. How did you end up getting into being like an arts educator? Like that kind of- You’ve got your performance work that you’re doing and you’re still being a student. But when did sort of that arts educator piece come in?

Theron Brown [00:54:00] I actually started teaching when I first moved up here too, at a place called Firefly Music School. It was in the summer. I think my buddy Phil Anderson may have put me onto it. He was teaching there and he was like, yeah, man, you can make some money this way too. Teach a couple days. At the time, I could barely read. So it was like practice for me. Teaching day. These little kids how to play piano. So I started at Firefly Music School. From there, I would just start going up to other places. I think I was at Fair Lawn for a minute. I was at Aurora School of Music for a while. I started doing these little clinics at high schools and things. I started teaching at the university. Well, I did Tri-C Jazz Camp. That’s when I really got hooked on teaching. That was in- That had to been 2012 too, when I moved back, ’13 or something. And then when I- Yeah, just- I think I’ve always just taught. I’ve had private students too from home that would just come over to my house or we meet at the practice room in the School of Music.

Arrye Rosser [00:55:23] How did you get involved in I Promise School?

Theron Brown [00:55:26] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [00:55:26] With LeBron’s school.

Theron Brown [00:55:29] That was around the time when, well, I met Rick Rogers, who’s the head of Curated Storefront, and that’s what the residency program runs out of- I met him when we both won our Knight Arts Challenge. So I got my Knight Arts Challenge for the Jazz Fest, Rubber City Jazz and Blues Fest, and his for Curated Storefront. Some years later, we ended up crossing paths and I played for his father’s memorial something. And that was my first time, like, actually meeting him and conversing with him because he wanted me to play some Jazz music. And afterwards, he had mentioned that he wanted to talk to me about a project, and he presented that and he asked me if I want to lead it. And I was like, sure. I’ve never done anything like this before, but I have an idea of what kids need, you know, and it’s been going good.

Arrye Rosser [00:56:31] What’s your title there?

Theron Brown [00:56:34] Coordinator of the Residency.

Arrye Rosser [00:56:37] Yeah, yeah.

Theron Brown [00:56:39] Artist Coordinator, I guess.

Arrye Rosser [00:56:41] Yeah. And what do you like most about teaching music?

Theron Brown [00:56:45] Oh, just that I get to go over things that I may have forgot about. [laughs] So, it’s like I get reminded of how much work I got to do still. No, honestly, as well. I think seeing the students blossom into their own, because I like to teach things, but I never want a student to sound like me. I want them to be able to find their voice. And when that happens, or when it starts to happen, which is from the beginning, that’s the part I love.

Arrye Rosser [00:57:18] What are some of the biggest challenges? I imagine, like, getting kids focused has always got to be one.

Theron Brown [00:57:25] Yeah. I think the biggest challenge is them having faith through the process, which- That’s why I like to instill that in kids as young as, you know, you can go. They need to be empowered to know that. Hello. Yes, you’re going- It’s a challenge. But if you’re being challenged, that means you’re learning. You’re never going to lose. You either win or you learn. With those two things, you’re always going to get better. So don’t be afraid of what we think is failure or what we’ve maybe seen or learned or maybe even imagined. We want to turn that around. So it’s getting people to believe in a different way, because it’s a process. You got to go through it.

Arrye Rosser [00:58:15] Yeah, I’ve been reflecting on that, too, and maybe it’s something that has to do with kids thinking about learning because of the model they get presented in school, where you’re passing and failing or getting graded as opposed to being more like a learner and you’re just acquiring skills or getting better honing, as opposed to some other external thing, you know, rating you or doing, judging you or whatever. It’s a different way to think about it, isn’t it?

Theron Brown [00:58:45] Yeah, absolutely. And I really like to relate it to, like, your survival instincts. You know, you learn to speak because you have to communicate in order to live. That’s probably the most fundamental thing, [laughs] you know, you need also, you have to breathe. Like, those are things you don’t think about, but they’re also life and death, you know, so piano, don’t worry about it. [laughs] We’re learning music, you know? But down the road, you find out how much joy you get because it’s another way to communicate with people. For example, when I’m in Japan, like, couldn’t speed a lick of Japanese. Matter of fact, I got lost one day, like, for hours. But I could still connect to people musically, you know, that’s the powerful thing.

Arrye Rosser [00:59:40] Japanese really like jazz, too. 

Theron Brown [00:59:42] Oh, yes.

Arrye Rosser [00:59:43] They’re big into jazz. Yeah. How did you get going- What was the origin story for the Rubber City Jazz and Blues Festival? How did that get started?

Theron Brown [00:59:54] Yes.

Arrye Rosser [00:59:54] You’re a founder.

Theron Brown [00:59:56] Yeah. Mm-hmm. It was an idea of, I believe Kyle Kutuchief. At the time, he was not affiliated like he was with Knight Foundation, but he saw potential that, like, he started including me in things that the Knight Foundation was doing. This was in 2013, ’14. That sounds right. They started doing these studies and things. Maybe even ‘12. Yeah, well, they started doing these trips and, you know, to look at other Knight cities to figure out how Akron could better themselves, too, just getting ideas and things. And I didn’t know at the time. I was like, what? I don’t- Okay, I’m going to Detroit, and I’m going to Pittsburgh with you guys. It should be fun. Free lunch, you know? [laughs] But then I started putting two and two together. Once I saw who was- I started learning who was in the room, who- How people from those trips, like your Nicole Mullets, these kind of things were- That was the seed back then. Nicole Mullets was there, Alita Rogers, which was Rick Rogers’ wife. People like Susie Graham, Downtown Akron Partnership. Now, I work with her all the time. But we were there discovering things. I was like, oh, well, I’m here for the- It’s got to be arts and culture, music and stuff. So I started recognizing what these cities had around that. And of course, Detroit Jazz Festival is humongous. It’s one of the biggest free public, free to the public festivals in the world. Then the Pittsburgh International Jazz Festival, which both of those organizations now are- We have relationships with. But I was like, oh, this would be great for Akron since we have this jazz history that I’ve learned about, which that ended up being the springboard into me getting into the history of jazz in Akron. So I came back and I was like, maybe a few weeks later, Kyle hit me up and was like, yeah, they’re doing this challenge. I think you should write the little tweet paragraph about your idea that you talked to me about on that trip. So I did, and things just started unraveling really quickly, and that was kind of the idea behind it. Also, I had a lot of friends that were playing jazz, and I was like, this would be a cool way for us to get. You know, imagine a musician getting their start and they want to play at this jazz festival, but they haven’t played at any others. Well, we can now. You’ve played at the Rubber City Jazz and Blues Festival. Well, maybe we can get more notoriety and gigs like that.

Arrye Rosser [01:02:46] What’s kind of your dream for it? You know, like, what do you hope it’s going to be as it kind of grows?

Theron Brown [01:03:47] Yeah, just mainly just staying close to the mission of supporting and telling the story of here, of Akron and its musicians, so always putting them at the front forefront. But also the festival having its own flavor, which I think it has that because of the people involved. Like, it’s ran by musicians here. It’s attended by people here that love this jazz community, you know, and as long as we keep that spirit of it being unique. I like how Howard Parr says it, like, authenticity matters. You know, that’s my dream, is for that to just morph to where it’s so different from Pittsburgh or Detroit or Newport or New Orleans, you know, it’s Akron, super Midwest. What is that? You know, so that’s. That’s my dream also. The other dream is probably for me to be able to take a step back and let the engine run bigger than what my imagination has for it. So I’m hoping some other, you know, we can set it up for some young folks to take it over and really come up with some cool ideas.

Arrye Rosser [01:04:15] I’m watching. I have more questions for you and totally enjoying our conversation. Do you need to? Are you- I’m mindful of- You’ve got a gig, right? Do you need to be skirting out of here? 

Theron Brown [01:04:26] How far is it from here? 

Arrye Rosser [01:04:27] You’re maybe [inaudible] to need at least 10 minutes?

Erich Schnack [01:04:30] I would say 10 minutes to be safe. 15 minutes. 

Theron Brown [01:04:34] Okay. So I could probably scoot out about 4:10? Okay, cool?

Arrye Rosser [01:04:40] Then we’re doing good. I wasn’t sure if you had to be there at 4 or 4:30.

Theron Brown [01:04:44] Let me look. 

Arrye Rosser [01:44:46] Double-check.

Erich Schnack [01:44:47] I saw that the event started at 4:30.

Arrye Rosser [01:04:48] Yeah, the event started working and I was just trying to remember if you had to play and the doors open kind of a thing. I don’t know.

Theron Brown [01:04:56] Yeah, I have written down 4:30 to 6:30.

Arrye Rosser [01:04:58] You’re all good then. I’m not going to worry about it. Okay, we’re good. I think that’s right. That sounds right. I don’t want to hold you up. [laughs] So tell me about how you got involved in the music business? I think that’s crazy. Like you’re just like all over the place there.

Theron Brown [01:05:20] Music business. Like what-

Arrye Rosser [01:05:21] How did you get into the Miles Ahead?

Theron Brown [01:07:24] Oh, Miles Ahead. [crosstalk] Again, that was. I’m still trying to figure out, but it was just a recommendation. I thought it was fake at first. I was on a gig with Peter White, who’s a smooth jazz guitarist. And it was an all-day sound check and long gig. So I took the break during the day and went out, checked my phone and it was this producer saying that I’ve been recommended to play Herbie Hancock in a movie and could you give me a call back? We want to set up an audition with you. I’m like, which one of my buddies is messing with me right now? [laughs] But it was an L.A. number and first thing I did, I called Tony. I was like, hey, yeah, I just got my wife. I just got this crazy phone call, you know, explained it to her. She was like, well, call back. I mean, yeah, check it out. So I called and sure enough, it was legit. But they needed me to audition like the next week, which I was going on vacation with my family to Myrtle Beach and the audition was in Cincinnati. So I called Tony. I was like, well, we can- The audition’s set up and she wanted to be sure that I was gonna get it if we were gonna cut our, you know, thing short. So I called the guy back. I was like, okay, obviously you guys looked me up and stuff. Is there like a chance that I’ll get this? Because, you know, I’m going on vacation and stuff with my girlfriend. Dude, this is a Don Cheadle movie. [laughs] Like you should audition. You have a really good chance. I was like, okay, I’m gonna do this. So cut our vacation short, went to Cincinnati, had to play a couple songs and, like, read a couple lines from a script. And, yeah, they called me back and said I got the part. So I started diving into Miles Davis music again and Herbie and, like, did maybe three months of just immersive- That’s it. Yeah. And so it was totally random. I have no clue how I got the gig, but super grateful. [laughs]

Arrye Rosser [01:07:43] That’s crazy. Are there other ways you’ve been involved in the Akron arts community? You’re on board. You’ve just done so many different things.

Theron Brown [01:07:52] Yeah, a lot of board work. Some of the first- Where do I start? Gosh. Summit Art Space was one I was involved in from the beginning.

Arrye Rosser [01:08:02] But, you know my husband, John Fitzpatrick.

Theron Brown [01:08:05] That’s right. Yeah. And John was in that for some years. Actually.

Arrye Rosser [01:08:09] He just stopped this summer.

Theron Brown [01:08:11] Oh, okay.

Arrye Rosser [01:08:11] Yeah. Yeah, he did eight years or something.

Theron Brown [01:08:14] Wow. Yeah. The Nightlight Theater, Akron Civic. Also, like, I was on the Knight Advisory Committee for some years. Currently, the biggest ones, changes at least, have been the new Akron Arts Advancement Council, which President Miller from UA is running. That’s the Polsky project and everything. Oh, PBS, Western Reserve. That’s a bigger one. I’m probably leaving some out, but, yeah, it’s a lot.

Arrye Rosser [01:09:00] I’m just amazed by the- Just, like, how many different things did you do and how you juggle it all there?

Theron Brown [01:10:03] Yeah, I think I’m dropping a lot of the balls, though. No, we try to- You know, the main thing is, I think, for me to just know what’s going on. Leadership Akron helped me out a lot. A sector, a city works only because of all the sectors knowing what’s flowing. Right. So in the arts community, I want to know what’s flowing. So even if I’m not able to contribute big-time to the Akron Civic, you know, where that’s a machine that’s going to run regardless. But at least I can know, like, oh, well, maybe there’s ideas between energies between two things, you know, like, Howard’s been beautiful. Our partnership with the Rubber City Jazz and Blues Festival has worked since its fruition, and that’s because I was already working with him. I think that relationship was easy to, you know, for us to make something cool. The Nightlight Theater, that’s pretty out there. But again, like, we showed our film there. There’s, like, little ways I can contribute. But when we’re mixing in the arts, it’s like, oh, now I got a bunch of music people that came and saw that film that’s aware of this, of this space.

Arrye Rosser [01:10:33] What are some of the challenges you’ve faced during your career? Like, you seem like you just, you know, there’s like so many opportunities. It’s just like, how do you- What do you sort of see as the things that you’re trying to still figure out? Is it about balance? Is it about growth of yourself?

Theron Brown [01:11:27] Yeah, well, definitely that, I think always growth for myself and not staying stale or not becoming stale and fear because I sometimes feel like a poser because I got a late start or something or, you know, the things I have to deal with in society. Of course, I’d say the biggest thing is faith. Having faith in myself and continuing to believe, which I found my children are helping with that more so now than ever. Like me just having- Feeling empowered because I’m seeing them learn things and I’m remembering fundamental things that are just like they’re teaching me while I’m teaching that type of vibe.

Arrye Rosser [01:11:51] Yeah. There’s something about the region that’s very aspirational.

Theron Brown [01:11:55] That too.

Arrye Rosser [01:12:17] I do think that we’ve been talking about it on our own staff and that kind of comes up again. Tell me a little bit more about just kind of your creative process. And you spoke about it a little bit earlier, but kind of what you see as sort of the essence of jazz or how you define Jazz. I’m curious about like the Akron, how Akron is different than other places for Jazz. I’m like the non musician asking this question.

Theron Brown [01:12:51] But yeah, well, I first learned about Jazz from an academic standpoint, which is not cultural. And Jazz, that word is described in an actual culture, a movement, which do we call it Jazz? A lot of people think not a lot of people are stuck in the label just because that’s what it’s been. But the origins of the word does have derogatory meaning. Look at a lot of the greats, they despise it. From Duke Ellington to Miles Davis, there’s quotes of them saying, I don’t play jazz. What is this? You know, why are you calling that?

Arrye Rosser [01:13:08] What did they call it?

Theron Brown [01:13:11] Just good old music, you know, why is it labeled when it gets labeled, when it comes from the Black community and then it gets used and the history that goes with it, the money that goes with it doesn’t get back to the people that created it? If you think about American music, that is it. When we, I mean jazz, blues, that is our music. Everything that’s come out of it subgenre -wise. When we say blues, we got jazz. We have- And actually we can take it even back further. We can go to Negro Spirituals and those kind of things had the Blues, where they’re just singing songs, telling people where to go. Go Down, Moses, you know, the water. All this kind of stuff that had the Blues feeling under it, which you fast forward, now we have a bluegrass, Memphis Blues, Chicago Blues, Rock and Roll. Well, they still follow the form. They still have those notes and that feeling, you know, you can listen to Christina Aguilera as she’s singing, Ooh, ooh, ooh ooh. That’s the blues. The same as the old mother that was just on the fields going Oh-ooooooh. Same notes, just a little slower, different feel. Right? So when I think of jazz here in Akron, it’s something that migrated, and the culture migrated along with it, too. You have New Orleans jazz, which is a whole- The roots of it, right? But then you got New York. That’s a whole different vibe, right? And I think it’s because of how New York moves. Then you have L.A., and that’s a style of jazz again, how it moves. The Midwest, which is in between all of those places. And I think just from my own personal experience, when I travel and go other places to play, they’re like, what? You’re in Akron, Ohio, and they can hear it. You know, it’s a certain sound. They just can’t identify it, and that’s all I’m- One of the things, too, like, having the platform for the jazz festival is to be able to put our sound on a pedestal for people to access and hear.

Arrye Rosser [01:15:42] Yeah. And what is it most closely related to, like, what is the? Its closest sister or brother in terms of other types of styles of jazz? Is it closer to Chicago or is it closer to New York?

Theron Brown [01:15:58] For Akron?

Arrye Rosser [01:15:59] Yeah, for Akron.

Theron Brown [01:16:01] That’s a good question. I would say it’s a mix of all that. Like, say, even from Pittsburgh to Chicago. Detroit had a big influence in New York. Yes, to an extent. But, you know, a lot of those players were coming. That was the tour circuit, as we said.

Arrye Rosser [01:16:39] So I’m kind of curious a little bit, like, because you’ve been doing sort of research into some things. Like, do you feel like there was sort of the local musicians that were maybe, like, holding down what the sound was locally, and then there’s the circuit folks that are like, bringing in new ideas. Does that kind of make sense?

Theron Brown [01:16:40] Absolutely. That’s exactly what it is. And I even feel like we had that when I was learning here, so it had to be the same back then. I always remember musicians coming through town and they’d be from somewhere. You could tell, like, oh, you play different. What is that? You know, what is that dialect?

Arrye Rosser [01:17:01] What inspires you the most about, like, Akron’s jazz history? Like, now that you’re trying to- It’s not so much bring it back as is define it more clearly. Yeah. What kind of- What do you hearken back to? Or what gets you all excited about?

Theron Brown [01:17:53] Yeah, I like how you put that. I think it’s more so just uncovering the mystery because you can feel it. The spirit’s here, it’s been here. We talk about it. But I really want to know. So I think I’m just excited to discover more, connect more dots. I mean, it’s fun when you hear, you know, that a certain musician that you actually studied stayed, played here, stayed at the Matthews Hotel, and you want to know everything about that club. Like, why did they go there? Just, like, when I read history about other pianists and they’re in other cities, if they were here in a place where I learned. Yeah, I kind of want to know the information.

Arrye Rosser [01:18:08] Yeah. Do you feel like, are you kind of actively searching out some of that information, like. Or are you kind of hearing it verbally? Like, I’m curious whether you like looking at archival stuff or if you’re just because of your role in the festival, or if it’s more of an oral thing with old timers kind of filling in the blanks?

Theron Brown [01:18:31] For me, it’s more oral, I’ll say. I go through stages where I’m, like, really obsessed, and I can- It was during the pandemic, really. I didn’t have much to do. Nobody did. [laughs] So I got on the Internet and just started looking up stuff, and it made me want to, like, sound an alarm and see who else was. Might have information or if this is something that people would be interested in helping kind of uncover.

Arrye Rosser [01:18:59] Well, yeah, we’ve got sort of names. I don’t know if you have any stories or things about the Green Turtle, the Mathews Hotel, Allen Barbershop, the Cosmopolitan Exchange Hotel, in some of the beauty shops and everything. Just, we were sort of putting together that kind of geography. Of course, there’s different time periods and businesses kind of come and go. Do you have any, like, stories that sort of stand out to you or information that you piece together? And it’s hard sometimes to talk off the top of your head. 

Theron Brown [01:19:34] Yeah. I think I was able to meet with Mathews’s goddaughter, Alberta Blanton, and my wife ended up looking her up and finding her information and actually ended up becoming friends with her. And she was- She lived in Mathews Hotel from about- I think she was just born to maybe 8 or 9 years old. And her father owned that hat store. You said Allen’s? I don’t know if that was his name.

Arrye Rosser [01:20:12] Allen Barbershop was the name, [crosstalk] but we can look for a hat store, too.

Theron Brown [01:20:16] There was a hat store that was either in that building or very close to it, because then Mathews had his barber shop, of course. And he also ran an insurance company, I heard, so he had a few different businesses. But she said he was a powerful man. And when he came around town, like, you know. You know, he was about his business, people knew it. You know, he was a powerful Black man. He was one of the first ones to have a nice car that he’d keep covered up in the garage. He was one of the first ones to get a TV in the Black community. And, you know, that was like, kind of the news that circulated on the street. You know, it was a big deal, like, oh, Mathews got a TV. [laughs] You know, for me, I can’t- I’m trying to put myself in that space, you know. And then the coolest part that I heard was that he, and I think this- I found this article in a paper, but the Knight brothers’ father, Charles Knight, maybe he would send a chauffeur to pick up George Mathews so that he could get his hair cut at his house by him. Yeah. So it makes me wonder, like, man, what were those two folks talking about? You know, you got somebody prolific in the Black community, then the Knights, you know, that’s-

Arrye Rosser [01:21:45] Yeah. That’s interesting. That is. Yeah. Now I’m all keen on that, too. What was the name of Alberta’s dad? [crosstalk] She’s still alive.

Theron Brown [01:21:57] She’s still here.

Arrye Rosser [01:21:58] Yeah. I heard her also speak-

Theron Brown [01:22:00] At the jazz festival? 

Arrye Rosser [01:22:01] Yeah, at the jazz festival as well.

Theron Brown [01:22:03] She’d be a great person to interview.

Arrye Rosser [01:22:05] Yeah, she’s on our list, but we need to- And I’m not- I think maybe Roger’s- Has he interviewed her? If not, we can always.

Theron Brown [01:22:12] I don’t. I’m not sure.

Arrye Rosser [01:22:13] Make sure that we’ve caught that. What do you- Let’s just see if you can articulate kind of what you feel like Akron lost, you know, with the Innerbelt project and just the destruction of that whole North Howard Street area to create the Innerbelt. I’m curious if there’s sort of certain buildings or just. It feels like there’s just this big wound in Akron over how all that happened but also the loss of it. It’s like the community side, but then there’s also, like, the jazz history connection and-

Theron Brown [01:22:57] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [01:22:58] The buildings that could have been used for telling the story now.

Theron Brown [01:23:02] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [01:23:02] If you have kind of any reflections on that.

Theron Brown [01:22:05] Well, I know that I feel like a lot of people from that generation that knew what was going on in that time are either starting to leave us or, you know, there’s not a lot that was written down there. You know, I think there was only a, like, a Black newspaper business for a year. I forget what it’s called. I mean, I found stuff about Mathews in the Pittsburgh Courier that goes into a little bit of his life. So news traveled, and that place was very important. Now, if we think about the times, I think we have to be honest about reasons for things happening, you know, and it mirrors other cities. We can look at other cities to prove what was happening. Redlining was a big one. The highway that was built was for specific reasons. And you can see that in every city. Go to Cleveland. There’s the east side and west side, and those folks. We know what it looks like, you know, [laughs] and it’s the same thing here. When industry went down, I believe in the- You know, with the tire stuff, the city’s kind of flipped, you know. Now those are the cheaper houses. Well, we don’t have anywhere to go, so. Yeah. And everything happened so quickly. The information disappeared, and it happened in a very slick way. So I think there was some dirty, you know, burning of documents at that point, because how can you just remove that kind of community and it just vanishes? Like, that’s alarming, [laughs] you know, that’s very alarming.

Arrye Rosser [01:25:06] Yeah. Do you have a sense- Is there a particular building that you kind of think of? It sounds like the Mathews Hotel, maybe, for you?

Theron Brown [01:25:15] Oh, yeah.

Arrye Rosser [01:25:16] Or something.

Theron Brown [01:25:17] Definitely.

Arrye Rosser [01:25:18] Oh, I wish I could, like, step back in time?

Theron Brown [01:25:21] Yeah. Green Turtle, for sure. Cosmo, Tropicana, any of the clubs that I’ve heard of I just want to see what the vibe was. If it’s everything I imagined of what they called it, the Little Harlem of Akron. So if it’s- If I imagine Harlem, because that’s been written about, then I imagine there’s a mixture. Not just Black people, but it’s a place where Blacks and whites could feel safe to share ideas, because that’s what Harlem was. You know, there was a lot of culture there, but anybody could experience that culture. It was a safe place for even, you know, Black people, white people, gays, whatever. You know, you could express yourself. Of course, there was a lot of bad things that happened too. So I often heard stories that, you know, like my mom, when she lived here as a little girl, she wasn’t allowed to go down. They would ride bikes, she was not allowed to go down to Howard Street.

Arrye Rosser [01:26:24] So we’re trying to research a lot of this history through the Green Book Cleveland project. Are there things that kind of interest you about that, or just things that you’d like to see as an outcome, the result of it? Because it’s not really just about the past. We want to create an archive of information, but it’s really as much about what we want to do in the present. So I was kind of curious, kind of just how that intersects with maybe the things that you’re thinking about of Akron’s future and jazz.

Theron Brown [01:27:00] Absolutely. I think it solidifies a lot of things for musicians like me and people that are part of that culture in particular, because it gives us some shoulders to stand upon now, some stronger reasons to do what we’re doing, for the community to be invested, you know, and it could be a healing factor. You know, let’s fill in the blanks and let people know what was going on. Let’s get some truths out and debunk some things. Also, I think one of the projects I’m working on now is trying to acquire a building that could serve as a multidisciplinary space for culture and arts that would simply have George Mathews’s name on it, I think. And imagine having a room in there, maybe it’s a lounge that’s called the Green Turtle Lounge. And then we could get a little barber shop in there. But also, if you think about George Mathews, I look at him, and this is a interesting comparison, but LeBron James is a modern-day George Mathews. What George Mathews was doing back then with what he had, which he had a lot, mirrors the same thing. A lot of people don’t even know this, but George Mathews, I believe he still has a scholarship fund at the school. Back in the day, I think it was like $25,000, which is today would have been worth 300,000 upwards. So what he was doing for the community, I think there could even be some synergy of telling that story between, you know, even what LeBron’s doing.

Arrye Rosser [01:28:56] You’re the first person to sort of say that. And that’s a really interesting idea. I know we’re butting up against the time that you need to scoot out the door, but maybe if you could just tell us a little bit about some of your connections to Cuyahoga Valley National Park. I wondered how you- You’re going off to a gig at Happy Days. How did you get going, like being a performer here in the park? Probably mostly at Happy Days?

Theron Brown [01:29:24] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [01:29:25] Yeah. How did you get started with that?

Theron Brown [01:29:27] Dominic Moore Dunson, when he was working for that group, he got me involved. But I know a lot of you folks that, you know, just over the years, seeing you around, I even think I played your big event that you have. Was it a gala-type thing in one of the-

Arrye Rosser [01:29:49] Were you at maybe one of the fundraisers was [crosstalk] Topography?

Theron Brown [01:29:54] Yeah, that sounds right.

Arrye Rosser [01:29:56] Or maybe the one that’s the evening one before Topography with the Younger set.

Theron Brown [01:30:01] Elevation.

Arrye Rosser [01:30:02] Elevation.

Theron Brown [01:30:03] I can’t remember.

Arrye Rosser [01:30:04] Younger. Yeah. Yeah. How about Blossom? How did you get going with Blossom?

Theron Brown [01:30:12] Oh, with the orchestra.

Arrye Rosser [01:30:14] Yeah.

Theron Brown [01:30:16] Again, I think I just- It’s for their- That’s for their jazz thing. So I- I really don’t know. I think it’s just recommendations.

Arrye Rosser [01:30:30] Yeah, yeah. You’re just like, everybody knows you. 

Theron Brown [01:30:33] You need a jazz guy. [laughs] It’ll come up somewhere.

Arrye Rosser [01:30:38] And now that you’re like a family man and everything, are you in the parks kind of as a dad or just your own recreational things?

Theron Brown [01:30:46] Every day, all day. Yes. In the summers, especially. Well, during the pandemic- You know, all my kids are pretty much pandemic babies. So I was home out of work. My wife was working because she works in. At Select Specialty Hospital, which they- Events is their thing. So she was at work for many hours. And I have the kids, we’d go- I live in the Valley, so. Yeah, we go to those parks.

Arrye Rosser [01:31:14] Do you live down in Merriman Valley and that? 

Theron Brown [01:31:17] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [01:31:18] Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah, you’re right around the corner. 

Theron Brown [01:31:20] Right there. And yeah, we go to all kinds of the parks. The kids love that and it’s good to get them ready for naps. Get all that energy out.

Arrye Rosser [01:31:30] [laughs] Oh, that’s crazy. And I just, I have one last question. Just if you could say, like, how do you identify yourself culturally? And I wondered if that identity sort of changed because you’re basically in a career that’s around cultural identity, so how do you sort of see yourself kind of doing this kind of work of who you are?

Theron Brown [01:31:55] Yeah.

Arrye Rosser [01:31:59] Do you think of yourself as African American or Black, or are you articulating it that way?

Theron Brown [01:32:05] Yeah, I just say I’m Black usually. Yeah. That’s about it.

Arrye Rosser [01:32:11] Do you feel like how’s this work kind of shaped your identity as a Black man? You know what I mean?

Theron Brown [01:32:20] Well, definitely the music. I think culturally I can connect to that because it’s all storytelling and seeing the development of that. With me being involved in that, I have to be, especially while I’m teaching, I have to be what I believe in, you know, be what I’m walking in, like. [laughs] So, yeah, there’s- It’s all growth, I think. Just, you know, I’m a fundamental person, really. I try to just pay attention to that stuff. So if, you know, today there’s all these extra layers, you know, I always try to just rip it apart. And when it comes down to it, we’re just human beings, you know, trying to do the best we can. So I don’t really dig myself into titles, or just wherever I am in that environment, I try to make everybody comfortable and hope that I get that in return.

Arrye Rosser [01:33:24] That’s lovely. Well, Theron, we know you’ve got to scoot out of here, but thank you so much. It’s been such a pleasure to talk to you.

Theron Brown [01:33:32] Yeah, likewise. Thanks for having me.

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