Abstract
Charesha Barrett, a Cleveland native, educator, consultant, genealogist, and co-founder of the Lee-Harvard Memorial Project, reflects on growing up in the Lee-Harvard neighborhood and her work to preserve and share its history. Barrett discusses Lee-Harvard's legacy as a place of community, Black excellence, and intergenerational connection. She recalls neighborhood places such as John F. Kennedy High School, St. Henry Parish, Kerruish Park, Lee-Harvard Shopping Center, Harvard Community Service Center, and businesses such as Gardell's Drug Store, Joy of Music, and the Ju Va De nightclub (a successor to Dearing's). She also explores broader themes including education, racial transition, population exodus, neighborhood disinvestment, homeownership, gentrification, and the importance of preserving local memory as the neighborhood continues to evolve. The interview also includes discussion of Barrett's family history, including migration from the South, connections to Karamu House and the 6888th Central Postal Directory Battalion, the only all-Black women's U.S. Army unit in World War II, as well as her current efforts to build connections between Lee-Harvard and Shaker Heights through United by Lee, bus tours, youth programming, community dinners, and conversations about the Shaker Heights barricades that have severed Lee-Harvard from Shaker's Lomond neighborhood since 1976.
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Interviewee
Barrett, Charesha (interviewee)
Interviewer
Culp, Dawn (interviewer); Souther, Mark (facilitator)
Project
Green Book Cleveland
Date
10-21-2025
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
55 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Charesha Barrett interview, 21 October 2025" (2025). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 723007.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1455
Transcript
Dawn Culp [00:00:03] My name is Dawn Culp. I am interviewing Charesha Barrett for the Center for Public History, and we’ll start with your name and when you were born.
Charesha Barrett [00:00:16] So my name is Charesha Barrett. I was born in the 1970s, grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, pretty much in the Lee-Harvard neighborhood. That was the place that I called, that I. That I called home.
Dawn Culp [00:00:31] Okay. Did you always refer to it as the Lee-Harvard neighborhood, or is there anything else that you called it while growing up?
Charesha Barrett [00:00:37] No, Lee-Harvard was always- Because when I thought about it, I thought what it represented really didn’t have a strong understanding of the history until most recently. And when I started to say, hey, why does this import? Why is this neighborhood so important? And so that is the only time that I decided to venture out and say, let me do some research.
Dawn Culp [00:01:01] What was it like growing up in the Lee-Harvard area?
Charesha Barrett [00:01:03] It was a family. I mean, although people were not related through DNA, people were family and people are still family, which is the reason why about three years ago - well, actually two years ago - a committee of former neighbors and also current neighbors who moved back home decided to launch the Lee-Harvard Memorial Project and the Lee-Harvard Block Party. Because we saw that it was an aging population and we knew that the people who were in their 90s were not going to be here too long. We wanted to honor them while they were living. And so that’s why we started the Lee-Harvard Block Party, Lee-Harvard Memorial Project, so we could be able to preserve those memories and celebrate those people while they’re still alive. And so initially it was supposed to be a one year event. And then of course, everyone liked it and said, oh, we’re going to do it in year two. And then we end up doing it this year two. And so one thing about it is that when people think about Lee-Harvard, they just have the fondest memories and they think about black excellence and they think about the friendships that they still have from 60 years ago. And so that is the reason why I was so prompted to say, I want to be a part of this work. I want to be able to tell the Lee-Harvard story. Because as an educator, it’s important for children to be exposed to enabling text, and it’s important for them to be able to see positive depictions of themselves and know that that shopping center was the first Black-owned shopping center in this country. And so once you expose children to enabling text or, or stories to show them what is attainable, you don’t know what type of limits that they might have.
Dawn Culp [00:02:49] And you talked about the Lee-Harvard Memory Project. So what type of work do you do?
Charesha Barrett [00:02:54] In the project or just personally?
Dawn Culp [00:02:57] Personal and the project.
Charesha Barrett [00:3:00] So I’m an educator by trade. I’ve been in education for over 25 years. I started off as a K through 12 teacher. And then I saw myself saying, oh, do I want to do this forever? And I said, I need to be in a position where I can have a macro impact. So that’s when I got my first masters in supervision, and then I got my second masters in adult ed, actually from Cleveland State University. I say about 2014, about 11 years ago, I participated in this fellowship called the Institute on Educational Leadership Educational Policy Fellowship Program. And I went to D.C. for the Washington seminar. And I was like, this is the work that I want to do. I want to advocate for change. I want to be a part of changing in policies in education. And I’m like, I don’t want to be in the classroom, but I still want to be a part of education. My mission is the same, but the path is different. And so that is how I got caught up into saying that I want to be involved in teacher professional development, teacher leadership. And so right now, around that, actually, not right now, but during that time, I decided to launch my company, Charp Education Consulting, initially to provide family community engagement. And then 2016, when I saw that the country divide was divided, I said, let me focus on diversity, equity, inclusion. And since now we’re going through what we’re going through right now, I said, hey, I have to shift a little bit. And so I’m kind of doing a little bit of everything having to do with education, where I’m really passionate about public history, bringing history to the streets, basically, with all the things that are happening right now and they’re trying their best to regulate education, I feel as if people, like I said earlier, hear those stories, then it might inspire them to make positive changes within their lives. And then furthermore, an opportunity for people to learn from one another and also to be a part of mending bridges or mending wounds that have been hurt over the period of years, which is why we started the Lee-Harvard Partnership with the Shaker Heights organizations.
Dawn Culp [00:05:14] What did you do for fun as a child and as a teenager?
Charesha Barrett [00:05:18] So my favorite thing to do- Well, I say to do because it’s still, it’s something I still enjoy doing, which is dancing. You know, I remember performing at- I went to, I’ll tell you the schools that I went to. I went to St. Henry’s; I went to Gracemount; I went to Whitney Young; and I went to John Marshall High, John Marshall High School. And St. Henry’s. I mean, as a kid, you know, my grandmother, my mother would always say she always enjoyed dancing. You know, they always tell stories when I was in California and when I was visiting my aunt or how I used to enjoy dancing. So that’s something that’s a part of me. And I still enjoy dancing today. So going out dancing is something that I enjoy doing. The other thing is poetry. I’m always passionate about creative writing. And some of the things I did, which of course, I was one of the worst players. I played softball for the St. Henry’s Softball League. But playing hide and go seek, those were things that I remember, building those relationships with the people that I still see that I played with 40 years ago, I’m still friends with today. So those are things that hold dear to me more so than anything.
Dawn Culp [00:06:34] Did your family take any trips, like to the countryside or to parks or any family vacations?
Charesha Barrett [00:06:41] You know what? That’s one thing. California was a place that we visited the most because we had family there. I wish that we would have ventured to other parts of the country because there’s so much history, you know, especially since my family is originally from Georgia. But mostly, I mean, we would go, my cousins and I would go to Port Clinton during the summers. But that’s something that I wish that I would have had a more experience enjoying the rich history of America.
Dawn Culp [00:07:14] Did your family or friends of the family use the Green Book for travel?
Charesha Barrett [00:07:19] You know what? I’m not sure because one thing about me, I think my story’s a little bit different than some people is because my maternal grandparents were born here. And since my maternal grandparents were born here, they just had a different outlook of life. It’s so funny that, you know, I felt like my grandmother, my maternal grandmother didn’t have any fear. And I think it’s because of her growing up here in Cleveland, Ohio. So she did go to Central High School, which of course is a well known high school. We know Langston Hughes and we know John D. Rockefeller went to Central High. She graduated in 1944. And ironically, when she moved to Lee-Harvard, a lot of her friends moved there too. So it was, you know, it was like her closest friends were all- They were all walking distance from one another. And so because my grandfather went to East Tech, so they were literally right around the corner from one another. And so- And then, of course, he fought during World War II, so my maternal grandparents didn’t have that south mentality because they grew up here. And I don’t know if my grandmother would have survived in the south because she was very outspoken and she had a very outspoken spirit. However, her mother. Something happened in Alabama when I still can’t get clarity what happened. Something happened where there was a white family going after my great-great grandparents and had to come up here in the middle of the night. And something traumatic happened. I’m not sure what happened, but something was- Something happened. They had to hurry up and leave Alabama quickly. And so my grandmother, my great grandmother and her siblings, came up here in probably like in 1910s. I’m not sure the exact year, but I’m able to find them in the census. And so they came up here because they knew that they had to get away from the South. I don’t know what happened, but they did. But I know that my grandmother would always tell me that, like, whenever they would cross, my great grandparents would cross the railroad tracks, that she would have to get out to make sure that a train wasn’t coming because her foot got caught on the railroad track when they were moving up to the north to Cleveland, Ohio. So I don’t know exactly what happened. So most of my family- When her family migrated and settled here in Cleveland, Ohio, her sister, ironically, actually, her sisters- You know, when you think about hidden figures, you never know if some of your family members might be hidden figures. Her sister was my great grandmother. Sister was one of the Six Triple Eight members. [Note: The 6888th Central Postal Directory Battalion was the only all-Black women’s U.S. Army unit to serve overseas in World War II.] It was ironic, though. My cousin, her- My cousin, which is my grandmother’s cousin’s daughter, invited me over and I said- And we decided to watch the movie about the Six Triple Eight. Because she said, my mother says that one of our aunts was one of them. And so of course, being young, and I think she- And she died in the ’70s, I didn’t know. And so we watched the movie. And of course, I’m the family genealogist. I’m the one who’s putting the pieces together. And if people have a question, I can tell who’s who and so forth. And so what happened was they, we watched a movie. And I know her name was Ella, ’cause that’s a family name. My great-great grandmother name was Ella. And so she named her daughter’s name Ella, too. And so what happened. My cousins and I- I would just say collectively, my cousins and I were watching the credits and we saw Ella. Okay, we’re looking for Ella Letcher ’cause that’s my family’s name. And then we’re like, well, now she got married. So then I’m on the computer on Ancestry.com, like, okay, it says, like, she got married to a man named Kelly. Then my little cousin said, well, maybe she got married again, looked it up again. She got married again. And so what we did, so I, you know, found out that that was her. And so the one thing that we started to do was just cry collectively. Like one of our aunts was one of those hidden figures. Now, the other aunt, I think she probably was- I don’t know which one’s older. They were close in age. She was instrumental during the Karamu House. She was instrumental. She was a ceramic ceramics teacher at the Karamu House. And so she was in place with Langston Hughes. You can find pictures of her in the newspaper when they built the new Karamu House. And so those are the people that I’m committed to unearthing because now I can say I’m a part- These are part of my lineage. These are my families. These are my aunts and my aunt who I was talking about, who was a part of, not part of the Six Triple Eight aunt who was part of the Karamu House. She grew up. She lived in Lee-Harvard too. There’s a house- You can see it now because it’s probably one of the oldest houses. And actually, I don’t know if if Cleveland Public Library or Cleveland State University, they actually have a picture of the house because it’s like the only house that’s probably built like in the early 1900s, because all the other houses were built like in the 1940s and 1950s. And so that house is still there. I wish we could have bought it and turned into a museum, but yes. So I have a strong connection with other family members to Lee-Harvard just as well.
Dawn Culp [00:13:17] Where did the people in your community go to swim or picnic or camping?
Charesha Barrett [00:13:23] So I think Kerruish Park is a park that many people still talk about because John F. Kennedy has an annual reunion that they do where they all-class reunion and they have it there. And growing up, that was a place that we would go to. DeForrest Park, where we used to play softball, and then St. Henry’s Park when we used to watch baseball players play. And the John F. Kennedy Recreation Center, which is actually where Kim Whitley, the comedian, actress, her father and uncle were the architects that designed that. And they also designed the Harvard, the Cleveland Public Library, Harvard-Lee Branch too. So there is just so much excellence associated with Lee-Harvard.
Dawn Culp [00:14:16] Did you attend any summer camps?
Charesha Barrett [00:14:20] I think the only summer camp that I attended was in Cleveland Heights. And I didn’t go too often, so I can’t remember that experience.
Dawn Culp [00:14:29] What do you remember about like the nightclubs and the bars in the area? Where did people go to like dance and drink or hear music?
Charesha Barrett [00:14:35] The Chic was popular. The Sirrah House, Ju Va De. It was so funny though, a couple months ago when the National Association of Black Journalists had a conference and I was talking to Tiffany Cross because I talked to Jeff Johnson. I talked to Tiffany Cross. Jeff Johnson is a well-known journalist. And Tiffany Cross, you know, she was on, was it MSNBC and she had her own TV show. And I talked to her. She was like, yes, my parents went to Kennedy and I used to go to Ju Va De. I’m like, I used to go to Ju Va De. And so Ju Va De was actually one of my aunt’s good friend’s bar before that it was Dearing’s and Dearing’s great granddaughter and I were friends growing up. And he owned it first and then of course Dale Carter took over it like in the late 1970s. So I had connections with both of those people.
Dawn Culp [00:15:38] What made Ju Va De so popular?
Charesha Barrett [00:15:42] I think it was, you know, it was a nice place to go to back in the day. And the wings and the fries. Because everybody’s asking- I said, Dale, we’re gonna have to have something because everybody’s craving those wings, those Polish boys and those fries. He said, I still got the recipe. I said, well, we need to have an event just to provide homage to Ju Va De and Dearing’s. So yes, the food was great. I think I was too young to really experience it to its fullest. I know Mr. Max has been in the neighborhood for a while, has new ownership. So I don’t think it’s the same like it was before. And then the Sirrah House, still, it’s not the same. It’s not. It’s no longer the Sirrah House. It’s something else. But those are the places that people used to go to back in the day.
Dawn Culp [00:16:31] Were there any like good stories or any like good music acts that you saw?
Charesha Barrett [00:16:36] Oh, Joy of Music. Joy of Music was a place. It was right by Revco. That’s the old shopping center. So Revco before Revco. But in the early times it was called Marshall’s Drug Store. But Revco. And then it might have turned, I think, because I think the new shopping center was built in 2001. And so next door to Revco was Joy of Music. And every time she would bring all the famous people to come. I remember meeting Ruby Jackson. I remember meeting- Who else did I meet? I met a whole lot of people. I can’t remember all. Oh, and then she was- And then of course she liked us, my sister and I, a lot. And she gave us a big huge- We know those big human-sized posters of Bobby Brown. And I had it in my bedroom. So you know those Joy of Music. I mean she would. You were. You were able to meet famous people all the time. I miss that. I do. I actually do miss that. Because that was- They made for people that you saw on television. They were only an arm, arm length away from you.
Dawn Culp [00:17:49] That’s really cool. What were your favorite places to eat or go get, like, ice cream or treats?
Charesha Barrett [00:17:54] I mean Ju Va De. And then we did have a Dairy Queen on like 176th and Harvard. And then the store that everyone loves- And then there’s this guy that works at the Harvard Community Service center him. Halle Berry is from Lee-Harvard too. And she grew up 177th. He was like Halle and I used to walk up, walk to Gardell’s and get candy. And that’s where I used to go get candy all the time. It’s Gardell’s Drugstore. It’s so funny. I was talking to a couple people a couple weeks ago and I’m like, remember Gardell’s Drugstore? That’s where we were all, look, I went to go get my grandmother’s cigarettes for her. Even though I wasn’t allowed to, really. But they knew I was getting them for her. Her Camel cigarettes. And then of course, you know, we had the penny candy. We had those Jolly Ranchers, Lemonheads, Tahitian Treat, pop. Those are the things that we used to enjoy. And that was just the spot that we used to go to all the time, you know. So I think- And then there was- There used to be another place. I can’t think of it the other place. But there were so many. And then there was just so much Black excellence. Excellent. You went down Harvard, you had Black doctors and you had Black, at least three Black doctors in the neighborhood. You just don’t see that now. And that’s what really my hopes is that it emerge into something similar in the next five to ten years.
Dawn Culp [00:19:32] Do you remember any other businesses like beauty parlors or barbershops?
Charesha Barrett [00:19:36] So Mirror Mirror. Let’s see, what else? Farrow’s Cleaner has been there for a long time. Trying to think Doc’s Seafood, Wendy’s, where Charlie’s restaurant used to be- Wendy’s used to be there first and then, of course, people always, Shrimp Boat. And there’s, I don’t remember this place, but there’s another place that people talk about. But there are so many different places that people really. I think it’s called the Gold Point or something like that. People said that the fries were good, but it just was a different neighborhood. Then you had the arcades. You had Pick ’n Pay. You had- I can’t remember. There was a video store that we used to rent videos. Because back in the day, that’s how you were able to get access to the new movies. You had to wait in line and get them, or you had to- It was perfect timing in order for you to get the movie that you wanted. It might have been Arrows or something they had, but we had arcades. Then you had, you know, older folks, remember Federal’s. And at the Lee-Harvard Shopping Center, Muhammad Ali had a Muslim temple there, too. I remember Silverman’s. I’m trying to remember what else was up there. It was, of course, there was a fish market up there. There was a flower shop. But, yes, it was just. Every one thing that I have noticed, because I also do oral histories, too, to try to get to learn more about Lee-Harvard, is that people said, I just want Lee-Harvard to be like it used to be, where everything was- Everything was walkable. You were able to just walk, and everything was there. And so when I travel through places such as Chagrin Falls, when you look at that place, those buildings are old, but they keep them up and where people feel safe. And so that’s kind of where we need to move back to, is try to make this area a safe area for people. Doesn’t matter what race you are, you want to be able to walk the streets and people feel safe. One thing about when we did that bus tour almost two weeks ago is that people had preconceived notions of what Lee-Harvard represents. Some people said, well, I saw the stuff about Lee-Harvard on the news. I said, well, that’s not all Lee-Harvard you’re talking about. Just like Shaker Heights, there’s different sections. And I think for me, exposure is key. Right. The more exposure you have with someone, the more that you can counter those biases that you have in your mind. And so that’s what I’m always committed to doing.
Dawn Culp [00:22:33] Did your family have, like, a specific church that they went to or like any community groups?
Charesha Barrett [00:22:40] So I know St. Henry’s is kind of like- It’s a staple for many people. I was- I had my first communion, so technically, I am Catholic, although I don’t practice, I’m technically Catholic. I had my first communion at St. Henry’s Church, but there’s no other church that I went to consistently when I was a child.
Dawn Culp [00:23:06] Were there any community groups that got together and did anything?
Charesha Barrett [00:23:12] I mean, I know that some people were first. I know some people were part of Top Teen, Top Teen- I know a couple of my friends were part of that. A friend of mine whose mother was a principal who’s no longer with us, she would do something every year to honor Kwanzaa. Let’s see, Top Teen, Kwanzaa. And then of course, you had some people that were part of Boy Scouts. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, growing up. You know, one thing that, who has a lot who could tell you how things were, really were, is The Call and Post, because they documented everything. Now, we can’t do it in today’s time where we could tell you, oh, this is Sarah Lou. She lives on 7488 Biltmore. I mean, that’s how they used to do back in the day. You can’t do it because of safety, but that’s how they used to do it. But yes, one thing, when I was reading those articles, it’s like, okay, they had Boy Scout, they had Girl Scouts, and a lot of people part of cotillion. So. And it’s not like a lot of people, because there was a middle class neighborhood, sent their kids to private schools. They didn’t all went to John F. Kennedy High School. You know, they went to Hawken, they went to Laurel, they went to Regina, they went to St. Peter Chanel, they went to Lumen. So you. That was an area where a lot of people were middle class, so they were able to afford to send their kids to private schools.
Dawn Culp [00:24:47] Do you- How has, how has Lee-Harvard changed in the time that you’ve known it?
Charesha Barrett [00:24:50] I think the education system was the first thing that failed the neighborhood. And I say it in a way in which I don’t know if it’s- Let me, let me take that back. I think that as demographics change, neighborhoods change. So of course, 1961, predominantly white. Like 1967, 75% of the population ended up being Black. So when white flight happens, then of course they take their resources with them, not them literally doing it. But other companies tend to leave, because if you’ll look at the old city guys, you’re like, oh my gosh, all these places were here. And so a lot of the places stayed, you know, and some of it- And this is not- This is, I feel as if this is something that was happening during my aunt’s generation in the late 1960s, because they, because there were articles written by them in which they saying these kids don’t have anything to do and they’re causing ruckus at the shopping center. So if kids have idle time, then of course they’re going to do. What they’re going to do is get into trouble. And so because of busing, that’s part of the issue. Because people felt that the neighborhood was changing. In the ’70s, a lot of Blacks moved from Lee-Harvard to Shaker Heights in order for a safer neighborhood and also a better education. Because although Shaker is not performing like it used to be, but it’s- The rigor is still there because that’s where I student-taught. And I still have a strong connection with that neighborhood, with Shaker Heights and also the community overall. So I think those are the reasons why. And I know people said that, you know, it’s highs and lows. So I think in the ’70s, I think there was a lot of increase in crime. I know I talked to one family that had lived in Lee-Harvard. They were probably one of the first couple of families to move to Lee-Harvard because they moved in 1955 and they left in 1985 because of the crimes. It’s not like people don’t love the neighborhood. If I have a question, if I ask someone today, it’s like I want to buy my childhood home or I want to buy my grandparents house. But I’m like, well what you gonna do with the house? Like they just want to buy the property because for sentimental reasons. And so when you have those things happen, then of course, and then people don’t invest, right? And when you have not just white flight and you have Black flight, then of course then people don’t- Then guess what? The neighborhood is no longer where it needs to be. So I think 1972 is when the lawyers, doctors, all came together to purchase the Lee-Harvard Shopping Center. And they had this big redevelopment plan that they had in place. But guess what emerged during the same time. Randall Park Mall. So they couldn’t compete at Randall Park Mall. Randall Park Mall was the largest mall in the country. And so that’s how I think that they weren’t able to maintain. And of course you had to have limit, you had to have a lot of income in order to maintain something like that. Because when I looked a couple weeks ago, I think they bought that shopping center for $1,500,000 in 1949. So just imagine how much it might have cost in the 1970s.
Dawn Culp [00:28:24] You said that that was a Black-owned business. What was in the shopping center?
Charesha Barrett [00:28:28] I think a lot of stuff that I stated earlier. I’m not sure exactly where they. Of course I told you that Muhammad Ali had a Muslim temple, but I saw. And then I think, I’m not sure because, you know, that was not my time. I was born in the ’70s, but I can’t remember all the stuff that was happening during that time.
Dawn Culp [00:28:50] What do you think Lee-Harvard has lost in developments?
Charesha Barrett [00:28:55] Money. Money, money, money. It’s like people said, this is not the same neighborhood I grew up in. And that’s kind of- I’m hoping and I’m seeing- I’m seeing that there is a possibility for it to prosper. I’ve never, like when I grew up, there was my Hungarian neighbor. When all the white people left, she stayed. And she died at 96 years old. And she was in the nursing home. She was actually in the nursing home right over here. And her son stayed in the house for a little bit and actually stayed in the house a little bit because I interviewed him earlier this year for the oral history for the Block Party, or actually for the Memorial Project. He- I didn’t know she was Jewish all that time. Like, until I said, because I was trying- I’m like, I wanted to write something about her. And then I just typed her name on the computer. I was like, I said, how did I not know that your mother was Jewish? He said, well, we weren’t really religious. I was like, all this time. And so she was- She made my uncle’s cake when he got married, all the crafts we had. We persuaded her to put an apple tree in the backyard. I meant- That was our Hungarian grandmother. And so when she- When her- Because she only had one child and he moved to Maryland probably in the ’60s or ’70s. And when he left and then when her son, when her husband died, everybody just came together as a community and looked out for her. And her son always said, I appreciated that. And I said, well, what made your mother stay? He said, because they weren’t thinking about color. They were like, we’re not leaving here. We don’t have any problems with them. And so that is what we’re taught. And so right now, what I’m seeing, ironically, so today there’s a white family that moved on the street that I grew up. And there’s another, my mother has, because we still have the family house, there’s a white interracial couple next to us. And then I’m like, what is going on? You know, I’m fine with it because I like diversity. That’s something I promote. So I’m like, it’s like white people coming back into the neighborhood. And so I think people’s biggest fear is, like, the only way that they’ll be able to get anything to change the neighborhood unless white people start settling in the neighborhood. And that’s an unsettled- And that’s an unsettling feeling for me, right, where when I complain or if I want something for this neighborhood, I have to be a certain skin color. Versus many people say, well, I don’t mind that they’re coming back, because guess what? They’re gonna bring their resources with them. And that’s something wrong with that picture.
Dawn Culp [00:31:47] Is there any, like, buildings that came down that you wish had been saved?
Charesha Barrett [00:31:53] So the shop- The Lee-Harvard Shopping center is gone. The original, the original structure. You can see parts of Silverman/Federal’s building. You can see parts of it on Lee Road now. The funny thing about it is most of the buildings are still there. You know, I don’t- I really would like for them to just, like, rehab them, fix them up. But, yeah, they’re still there. Other than the shopping center, I would say there was a Black-owned- I can’t think of- It might have been Loritz Preschool. And then of course, my old preschool is still- The building still exists. It was Kidd’s preschool, which is named after- I can’t think of his first name. The John F. Kennedy Field is named after him. And his. He was a football coach, I think. What’s his name? I can’t think of his first name. His last name was Kidd. And he- His wife, Vivian opened a Kidd’s preschool that many of us attended in the neighborhood. So.
Dawn Culp [00:32:58] One of my questions is, what is your dream for the community?
Charesha Barrett [00:33:03] I wanted to- I know it’s not going to become the neighborhood that it once was, but I’m a person, as I stated earlier, who’s a proponent of diversity, equity, inclusion. Although it’s- Those are words that we’re not supposed to talk about. And I think when we talk about- When we talk about diversity, you know, we want mixed opportunities for everybody to prosper, regardless based on race, socioeconomic status, nationality. Because this was an area that World War II veterans who were of Southern Eastern European descent settled in. They were not allowed to live in places in Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights. They weren’t allowed to freely practice Judaism and Catholicism. I wanted to be a mixed neighborhood. I wanted to be a place where everything is accessible. I wanted to be safe. I wanted the yards to look up to par. I want all the resources available to everybody, regardless of your age group. So I want intergenerational programming. You know, you have the Harvard Community Service Center, which has been a staple for years. I think Ruby McAuliffe, which I went to school with her granddaughters, that she started the first- She was the first president or director of the Harvard Community Service Center. And when I read articles about her and I think about all the stuff that she helped contributed to Lee-Harvard. And I think most of us want Lee-Harvard to become the way it used to be. And I know that- I think- I don’t know if they did or not, but I know that they were working the Southeast Promise with the Southeast strategist, wanted people to come back home, and they wanted people to say, how can we reinvest in this community that we once loved and not once loved, but still love? How can we make it the way that it used to be? And so I don’t know. I know they were supposed to have an event either on October 11th or October 18th. I’m not sure if they had it or not, but I think that’s what it is. Bring people who have a love for the community to come back and reinvest. I don’t know what that completely looks like. What they want to have is something similar to Pinecrest, which is- I’m receptive to it. The problem lies is that- And of course, I have people texting me about the house, the family house, and say, are you selling the house? I said, no, we’re not selling the house. The house is sentimental to us. And, you know, for people like that, you know, investors, they’re just thinking about money. They’re not thinking about what the house represents. There’s a difference between a house and a home. And so now houses are going for $200,000 now, which is crazy. And I want it to be a place in which there are not a lot of renters, but a lot of homeowners. And I know that a lot of people have been holding on to their family properties and they don’t live in the neighborhood anymore. But I really would prefer it to be a lot of homeowners, because if you’re a homeowner, then you’re going to care about the neighborhood and you’re going to care about the house. And now that they’re pricing - these houses are priced at $200,000 and higher or higher - what’s going to happen is that the people, people are going to be people are not going to be able to afford them. Only a certain group of people are. And so I don’t mind for the neighborhood to change, but I want it to be an inclusive neighborhood. I don’t want a gentrified neighborhood. I want a neighborhood in which the people who are invested in the neighborhood can still have a voice. And so when I notice with these, when gentrification happens, the people who’ve been there for 30-plus years, guess what, they’re not able to stay there because the cost.
Dawn Culp [00:37:16] Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about that we haven’t touched on?
Charesha Barrett [00:37:23] I think I talked about the Lee-Harvard Memorial Project, where we’re just- We started it two years ago and we want to keep on preserving the history of Lee-Harvard. You know, pictures. I know you guys do oral histories. We do oral histories too. But just a way where we can be able to just share with people how life was living in Lee-Harvard. We’re also doing- Last year, Lee-Harvard Memorial Project launched a partnership with three Shaker Heights organizations: Shaker Heights Library, the City of Shaker Heights- Used to be Diversity, Equity, Inclusion Department, but it’s Engagement- I can’t think of what it stands for now, Engagement Department now. And then, of course, the Shaker Historical Society. And we’re working together to help mend the two communities because there’s been historically been a lot of dissension between these two communities because of the barricades that were installed on September 1, 1976. And so we hosted our first event, which was called the Elias Lee Bus Tour because the street is named after Elias Lee and just reminded people that we’re all one community. Shaker Heights, Lee-Harvard, we’re all part of Warrensville Township. And the other thing is that that’s the first event. Then we’re going to have a youth summit that’s going to be in February. And then we’re going to have a cross-community dinner in March. And then we’re going to have a cross-community picnic at the Shaker Historical Society. So we’re hoping that when people hear about Lee-Harvard, it is not as bad as you think it is. And so when we drove down Invermere and they saw, wait a minute. And then you have, you know, this one guy who was white, he was like, he said, you know, I used to play baseball at a park in this neighborhood. And I said, it’s probably Jo Ann Park. So it’s- So when I’m, for me, when I think of Lee-Harvard, it’s not a Black story. It’s a story for everybody. Because this was, like I said, that was an area where people who were Europe, who were first, who were immigrants, who wanted a glimpse of suburbia, were able to have it. And so once we’ve realized that we have more in common than not, then we will be able to push forward. Because as a person of Black descent, I can go back five or six generations easily, and it’s a little difficult when it comes to slavery, but I can go back, and I can go back to Georgia and tell you who my grandfathers were. I can’t tell you who my white ancestors are yet, but I can tell you, tell my family story. And I guess that’s what we talk about, who defines what it means to be American. And I think right now what we have to do is focus on that. Everyone has a story, and we all had to sacrifice something. And in order to be accepted in society, whether if our ancestors were forced to be here, or if our ancestors came here because they wanted religious freedom, or search for a new beginning, telling those stories are powerful. Right? Telling those stories are. It is a way in which to get people to understand we’re the same. We all had to overcome something in order to be accepted to the American society. And so that is the whole main purpose of me doing this work.
Dawn Culp [00:41:24] I think it’s very important work that you’re doing.
Charesha Barrett [00:41:26] Thank you.
Dawn Culp [00:41:26] I’m going to turn it over to Dr. Souther, if you have any questions.
Mark Souther [00:41:30] Okay, thank you. I do have a few.
Mark Souther [00:41:33] One, a couple are about businesses. You mentioned Ju Va De, and I’m intrigued by the name because it seems like an inversion of “deja vu.” I wondered if you could- [cross-talk]
Charesha Barrett [00:41:42] It is so- I mean, I can always- If you want. I have his number on my phone right now, if you wanted to- And I would ask him if you want to do an oral history with him. Dale Carter, he’s the one who owns Ju Va De. He’s still living. He, he, he just- He’s a good person to talk to, and he probably has some good oral histories. And I can- I can send him a text and see if he’s interested.
Mark Souther [00:42:07] Thank you. That would be great. And you mentioned that it had previously been one of the locations of Dearing’s. I’m familiar with Dearing’s and I wondered whether anyone ever talked about if the menu borrowed anything from Dearing’s. Because when we hear about Dearing’s, we hear so many people loved that restaurant. I mean, it was multiple locations over the years. But they always talk about the chicken. And I wondered if there was anything from Dearing’s that was carried over because people wanted it.
Charesha Barrett [00:42:38] So, Dale- I talked to him actually, a couple months ago, might have been July. He said, yes, he said Mr. Dearing’s taught him how to cook the chicken. So there were some stuff that carried over. He probably would have some more information he could share with you about that.
Mark Souther [00:42:52] That would be great. And you mentioned there were a couple places I wanted to make sure, ff you know the spelling, if I could ask you to spell them. Sirrah House?
Charesha Barrett [00:43:02] S-I-R-R-A-H House.
Mark Souther [00:43:07] Okay. And Gardell’s Drugstore?
Charesha Barrett [00:43:10] G-A-R-D-E-L-L, apostrophe S.
Mark Souther [00:43:16] Okay, thanks. And then I also wanted to clarify whether Joy of Music was a record store that people came to?
Charesha Barrett [00:43:22] Yes, it was a record store.
Mark Souther [00:43:24] As opposed to a music club.
Charesha Barrett [00:43:25] Right. It was a record store. And I’m sure there are a lot of people who have pictures and autographs. And I don’t know when she. I don’t know when she. She died. So that’s. I know that’s. That was one of the reason why Joy of Music ended. But I don’t know how long she. She owned it. But yes, it was. It was a staple. I met all the. I don’t know how many people that was just only one person I could remember was Ruby Jackson because, of course, she was part of the Jackson family. But there were a lot of people I met over the years. We just stood out line waiting to just meet these people.
Mark Souther [00:43:59] I’m curious whether the Dazz Band ever.
Charesha Barrett [00:44:01] They probably did. Let me tell you all the. I’m sure. Yeah, I’m sure that they probably did. There’s another guy named Kermit who also used to do something similar, I think. Right on Buckeye. They used to, you know, bring famous people in. I don’t know if they still do that back- You know how they used to do that back in the day. I don’t know if they still do it, anything like that, because we don’t really- We don’t have that anymore. Right. We don’t go to record shops. We don’t have Coconuts and Peaches. We don’t have those places anymore.
Mark Souther [00:44:30] True. I wondered, also there- I think this is maybe two more questions. Okay. One is I’ll ask the maybe more negative question, then a more positive one. I guess I’m curious about any memories you might have of the barricades when you were growing up, if you ever encountered them in any way or if people ever talked about them in your presence at the time.
Charesha Barrett [00:44:54] So I didn’t live right next to the barricades. And I think it’s more of a negative feeling for those people who lived on Invermere. Where I grew up was streets over. I just felt like it was a norm because I was so young. It wasn’t abnormal to me, right, until you learn about histories when you really understand it. But my grandmother always say I used to be able to drive because Heinen’s- Heinen’s is a staple, you know, that’s where I grew up. That’s where I, even today, that’s where I shop. I used to be able to drive all the way from- Because actually Heinen’s is not where it is. It used to be near, closer to Avalon. That’s how I used to go back and forth to the grocery store is traveling straight down Avalon. I didn’t even have to, you know, before the barricades installed. But I think the people who live right, who lived on Invermere, it was more affected them the most because they felt like you didn’t want us there. We weren’t good enough. And it’s still trauma today. And so that’s not a conversation that- So that was the conversation that we had when we went past them during the bus tour. And I’m like, well, they’re not coming down, but why can’t they? I’m going to keep it real, you know, if they come down, that’s going to affect Shaker Heights demographics. Because people, not just whites, but Black people, they don’t want them to come down. You know, they felt like it was a safety issue. One of the ladies that I interviewed for our oral history, she said my kids- And she still lives on Invermere, she said my kids used to play with the other kids in Scottsdale because it was, it was, literally, it was right next to one another. They were back to back. And she said when the barricades were installed, they act like they didn’t- And they were a Black family, act like they didn’t. Didn’t know her or her family anymore. And so when- So- And I tell people it’s not just about racial, race, it’s also social economics. People are trying to figure out how, how can they survive. And sometimes people who consider it as normal are the sacrificial lambs. And so those are the people who- And she said she would never go and shop in Shaker Heights at all because of it. She’s been in Lee-Harvard area since 1964. So I think I see the pain differently. My friends at Shaker, I just went ahead and rode my bike and just went over. Went on Scottsdale and then went over their houses. So, you know, I think people who were teenagers can really can give you a more solid understanding of how it felt. But as an educator and learned about the history, now I have a better understanding of what it represents and people. And there were Black folks saying, like, we didn’t want to be bothered with those Black folks in Lee-Harvard anymore. That’s why we left them and relocated. That’s why we left and moved to Shaker Heights. So it’s money. People had to look at it wholeheartedly. You know, Shaker Heights said their motivation was to traffic Black folks. Felt like it was racially driven. The barricades are not gonna come down. We’re doing what we can do as United by Lee, which is what we’re collectively calling ourselves, is to just figure out how do we mend these relationships. But it’s important for you to recognize it. Just like in Germany, they recognize that the Holocaust happened so they can move forward with anything. You have to recognize the past in order to push forward and also to envision a better future.
Mark Souther [00:48:36] Just to clarify, is United by Lee, is that connected in any way directly to the Lee-Harvard Memorial Project and the partners in Shaker Heights?
Charesha Barrett [00:48:48] No, that’s all- That’s what we decided to name us because we’re hoping not just to focus on Shaker Heights. We want to be able to go from Maple Heights all the way up to East Cleveland because they’re all a part of Lee-Harvard, Lee Road and, you know, Cleveland Heights, you know, I mean, Elias Lee. And there were things that I didn’t know because Megan, who’s over the local history department, I’m like, I didn’t know all this. I didn’t know all that. And one thing about it. So we went- We started off- I’m not going to go through all the spots because I can’t remember all of them anyway. We started at the Shaker Historical Society. We went past the Van Sweringens’ house. Then we went to Horseshoe Lake. So here’s what I will go back with Horseshoe Lake is that people don’t like to change. People don’t like change, right? That’s why we’re going through what we’re going through right now in this country right now. Because people don’t like change. People don’t want Horseshoe Lake to disappear because of sentimental reasons. Although it’s- It’s a- I don’t know, I can’t remember what the exact problem is, but people don’t want it to go away.
Dawn Culp [00:49:55] Silt. The silt is the problem. Is pulling silt from the exit ways. They have to like dredge it every so often. They don’t, they don’t want to pay the money for that.
Charesha Barrett [00:50:07] Mm hm. So I mean people think of it as a sentiment- So people, when people see things change is that people have to figure out ways to preserve or to revert in some type of capacity. And you know, we went past, we went to past Farrow’s Cleaners, we went to past Arthur Johnston’s, which is where the first Black mayor was elected in Miles Heights. And we went to Herold’s. Herold’s Salads, which is a white-owned company that’s been in Lee-Harvard for a hundred years. And so those people such as Farrow’s Cleaner has been here for 80. You know, I was interested to find out why did they stay? All these other white companies left. Why did they stay? And when I interviewed Jack Grimaldi, who was over Farrow’s Cleaners because he’s the second owner because his father and Mr. Farrow opened it in 1945, he said it’s just, it’s nothing like home. I asked him to say, he said if my house came, my old house came up for sale, I would buy it. I mean everybody has that history, right? That’s what we have to focus on. We want to focus on how- That’s why we’re doing these cross-community dinners and picnics and see, we’re not different, we’re actually the same. Opportunity plays a major part. Access to resources plays a major part on what your outcomes are going to be. And as an educator, that’s what I promote. I know the reality. You know, if a child comes from a two-parent household and living in a middle-class or upper-class household, that child is going to be better than someone who’s growing up in a single household. So it’s just access to resources. Shaker Heights still is focusing on rigor, but it was one of the top school districts in the country. I student-taught in Shaker Heights. That’s why I have a strong connection. And then when my grandparents ironically bought the house in Lee-Harvard, they also bought a house in Shaker. So we had owned property, so owned property in Moreland. So I think we use these stories to empower people, to show people what’s attainable and just focus on the connections that we commonly have.
Mark Souther [00:52:47] Thank you. The very last question that I thought of was that you had mentioned that sort of part of the dream would be that people would want to reinvest, not trying to necessarily take things back to what they were, but that some people would have a connection to the neighborhood and want to reclaim it. Without- You don’t need to mention specific names, but I’m curious whether you know people who have done that, either themselves or maybe it’s their children or even grandchildren [crosstalk] moved back into the neighborhood that their-
Charesha Barrett [00:53:22] So Doc’s, Doc’s on Harvard, which is a restaurant. His father was the dentist on Harvard, so he repurposed- He remodeled his father’s property and turned it to a restaurant. That’s a prime example. And he’s a Shakerite. He graduated from Shaker. So that’s where the Lee-Harvard and Shaker Heights is always constantly overlapping all the time. And also, I mean, I don’t have a problem because it’s publicly known, the Eagle’s Nest, They’re a group of Eagles, people who went to Kennedy who are actually going to be redeveloping the John F. Kennedy old site. So there are people who are coming back home and thinking about ways how they can invest in this neighborhood because it’s a special neighborhood to them. Just as well. They might not live in it, but they want to figure out how they can bring it back in some type of capacity.
Mark Souther [00:54:17] Thank you.
Dawn Culp [00:54:20] That’s all that I have. Anything else that you wanted to share?
Charesha Barrett [00:54:25] I don’t think so.
Dawn Culp [00:54:26] All right. Then I think that’s it. That was wonderful.
Mark Souther [00:54:30] Thank you so much. [crosstalk]
Charesha Barrett [00:54:32] Yes, yes, yes. I might have to- You know, like I said, all the pictures that you have.
Mark Souther [00:54:40] I’m going to hit stop.
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