Sheila Blecman Interview, 2009

Abstract

Sheila Blecman is the owner of Coventry Cats. She was born in Elyria in 1946, and later went to Ohio State University before finding a teaching job in LA. She moved back to Cleveland in the 1980s and opened Coventry Cats. The interview is about her childhood in Elyria where she worked in her father's grocery store, race relations in the 50s and 60s, and her love of music.

Interviewee

Blecman, Sheila (interviewee)

Interviewer

Aritonovich, Dana (interviewer)

Project

Rock and Roll

Date

11-17-2009

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

54 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Sheila Blecman Interview, 2009" (2009). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 200013.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/18

Related Resources

Rock and Roll @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Dana Aritonovich [00:00:03] Okay, why don't we start? You can introduce yourself, tell us your name and where you live and what you do.

Sheila Blecman [00:00:09] Okay. I'm Sheila Blecman. I currently own Coventry Cats in Cleveland Heights. I live in Cleveland Heights. I was born and raised in Elyria, Ohio, which is just to the west of here, for those of you that don't know. And I was born in 1946. And most of my music memories, my early music memories, came from the radio back in the early '50s and the middle '50s and the late '50s and the early '60s.

Dana Aritonovich [00:00:47] And you grew up in Elyria. What was your neighborhood like?

Sheila Blecman [00:00:51] Upper middle-class, I would say. My dad owned a business. I was the youngest of three girls. Our own house. And I went to the same school from kindergarten through eighth grade right down the street, and then went to the one and only high school in Elyria, nine through 12. And the kids I went to kindergarten with, I graduated with from high school. It was a small town when I grew up, about 25,000 people. And then the Ohio Turnpike came through, I believe in 1958. And that really helped expand the city quite a bit.

Dana Aritonovich [00:01:24] And what about your neighborhood? It was a middle-class neighborhood. Was it an integrated neighborhood?

Sheila Blecman [00:01:28] No, no. There were two or three Black families that lived on the street behind us. And I wouldn't say nobody paid attention to them, but there was never a problem or anything. I never felt it, I never knew about it. They went to our school, they were in our classes, but very, very few.

Dana Aritonovich [00:01:52] And could you tell us the names of the schools that you attended?

Sheila Blecman [00:01:54] Yeah, Ely school, kindergarten through 8, and Elyria High School 9 through 12.

Dana Aritonovich [00:02:02] And tell me about the kind of things that you did for fun with your friends. First of all, who were your friends and where did you mainly meet them? At school or from the neighborhood and what you got kind of things?

Sheila Blecman [00:02:12] Yeah, both. Since it was just one school in the whole city, you made friends with the kids in your class and also in your neighborhood because everybody sort of lived around you. I'm Jewish. My closest friends were a couple of other Jewish girls because we went to Sunday school and Hebrew school together. So we got to know each other real well. We grew up together, but I did have a lot of friends that weren't Jewish. It really didn't matter. And the things we used to do for fun, we'd go to movies on Saturdays. We could walk downtown, Downtown Elyria. There was a big, huge park in Elyria called Cascade Park. And we would go down there in the summertime and then we'd cross the river and there was a big swimming pool and a park. And there were no fears of being hurt or being attacked or being molested. I mean, nobody even thought about things in those days. Nobody locked their doors in those days. It was pretty safe, and it was fun. I thought it was a great thing growing up in a small town. I have two older sisters. One is deceased now, and the oldest one is 10 years older than me, and she lives in Florida with her husband.

Dana Aritonovich [00:03:31] What kind of things did you and your family do when you guys got together?

Sheila Blecman [00:03:34] It was all about food. It was all about big meals and what are we going out to? Restaurants. My dad was in the grocery business, and he worked seven days a week. So we rarely went anywhere. We had a big backyard. We had a badminton net, and we used to play badminton and croquet and have picnics in the backyard. I mean, we really didn't go anywhere. Not too many life experiences outside of Elyria.

Dana Aritonovich [00:04:04] So when you said your earliest music memories from the early 50s, what's the first kind of music you remember hearing?

Sheila Blecman [00:04:09] Early 50s, I remember vividly when I finally got my own bedroom and my oldest sister went to college. The middle sister moved into the other bedroom, and I had my own bedroom. I used to listen to the radio at night. And I remember a radio station out of Detroit called cklw and that used to play a lot of old rock. And I remember. I'm trying to think if it was back that far. Chuck Berry and Little Richard. I used to love to hear those songs. And then there was a disc jockey, and I think he was out of Cleveland, I think out of WHK maybe. And his name was Mad Daddy. And that was the first time that there was a character on radio that I can remember. And he used to have all these little sayings and these little poems. And he used to play a lot of good music, too. And I remember his opening theme was the song Night Train. And it was a real jazzy version of Night Train. And I remember that for just a few years. And then as we got into. Well, 1956 was Elvis, and it was all about Elvis, and totally everything was about Elvis. The very first record I ever bought, I went into a little. Little independent record store in Downtown Elyria and bought Heartbreak Hotel on a 45. And that was my very first record I ever bought.

Dana Aritonovich [00:05:30] And were your sisters into that kind of?

Sheila Blecman [00:05:33] Yeah, they were not. I don't think as much as I was because they were quite a bit older than me, but they. I know my old. My middle sister really liked Elvis a lot. In fact, after she married, years and years later, they did the Las Vegas shows all the time. They went to see Elvis, they lived in L.A. and they used to go to the Vegas shows.

Dana Aritonovich [00:05:51] What did your parents think about Elvis?

Sheila Blecman [00:05:54] I don't think they had much of an opinion. I don't think they- They didn't dare have an opinion. But I remember- Well, I don't want to skip years here, but later on, when I was into the Paul Anka and all that, my mother just thought it was just- She says, Why are you listening to that? It's just such crap. Yeah, yeah. But I grew up- I went from Mickey Mouse Club right into American Bandstand. And every day after school it was American Bandstand. And that's all I listened to, watching the dance steps. And my friends would come over and we'd watch and we'd practice the dance steps. So we went to the school dances on the weekends. We could do all those cool dances that Justine and Bob were doing on American Bandstand. That's what we did.

Dana Aritonovich [00:06:40] And so what other Elvis was the first record you bought? What other records were you buying around that time?

Sheila Blecman [00:06:49] I'm trying to think. I remember even before that, my parents had an old 78 record player. And I remember some Tony Bennett. I remember, yeah, quite a bit of Tony Bennett. And I used to like to listen to that. And there was some Frank Sinatra, and I used to like to listen to that. But. But Elvis was the one that really changed everything.

Dana Aritonovich [00:07:12] Why did Elvis change anything?

Sheila Blecman [00:07:13] Well, because it was rock and roll and it was. It was for the children, and not the children, but the young people. And it was something new that they could grab onto and own. You know, we made it our own. Elvis was ours. He didn't belong to our parents. He belonged to us.

Dana Aritonovich [00:07:30] And so you mentioned that you bought. You bought your records at a local record shop in Elyria.

Sheila Blecman [00:07:36] It's called Kaam's. K,A,A,M,S, I believe.

Dana Aritonovich [00:07:43] And when you got older, what other places did you buy records in, if you remember, to go to department stores? Were there like locally owned record shops?

Sheila Blecman [00:07:52] Mostly Kaam's. It was like the one and only record store in Downtown Elyria. And that was way before the Midway Mall was there. So there was really no other places to shop Downtown Elyria. And they sold records. And that's where you bought your records. You couldn't get them at the drugstore or the hardware store. You bought them at Kaamm's Record Store.

Dana Aritonovich [00:08:11] And would your friends all listen to the same kind of music? You did?

Sheila Blecman [00:08:14] I think so, yeah. Yeah, they did. They were all listening to American Bandstand. They were all into that. And like I said, we'd practice the dances that we watched on a daily basis.

Dana Aritonovich [00:08:27] And where would you generally play these records? Did you play them at home? Did you play them at your friend's house or mostly at home?

Sheila Blecman [00:08:35] My parents had bought my sister a little square 45 RPM record player. And I believe the first time that I can remember it was in the kitchen, sitting on the kitchen table. And we used to play the records there because the TV was in the living room. So we didn't want to disturb anybody watching TV. But pretty soon the record player made it into the living room. And then pretty soon my parents bought one of the big consoles that had the TV and the record player and the radio and everything in one piece. That was what you did then. That was probably late '50s when that all happened. So then- And then by that time, the 33-and-a-thirds [33 1/3 RPM] were already coming out. And then we listened to the music in the living room. Well, I did anyway.

Dana Aritonovich [00:09:22] And what do you remember about? You've mentioned American Bandstand. And what other TV shows did you watch that they had? Musical artists?

Sheila Blecman [00:09:29] Oh, Shindig, I think. I'm not even sure. I think I might have been out of school already when Shindig came on. I left Elyria in 1964 and left for college. And then once I was in college, I didn't really have time to do a whole lot of other stuff. I know all the kids were watching Dark Shadows and some of those TV shows, but I didn't even do that.

Dana Aritonovich [00:09:56] And. What do you remember about Motown? Like, what was the first Motown song that you remember hearing that made some kind of an impact?

Sheila Blecman [00:10:08] Yeah, that was probably my junior or senior year in college. So that must have been '67, '68 when I first heard Motown. And I probably heard it before and didn't really relate it to any specific type of music. But when I really thought of Motown, I think it was The Four Tops. And of course, The Temptations and Diana Ross and The Supremes. And then all those girl groups that came out. But I think The Four Tops "Can't Help Myself." I think that was one of my first remembrances of Motown. And what was her name that did "My Girl"? Mary Wells, yes. And that was always a favorite, too. And then the "Name Game" with Shirley Ellis. Remember that one? Yes. That was fun. And everybody walked around high school doing name games with bad words. And that was. That Was cool.

Dana Aritonovich [00:11:10] What do you remember the first maybe live performance you see of one of these groups that you liked?

Sheila Blecman [00:11:16] Hmm. I'm trying to think who I ever saw live. I never saw Little Richard or Chuck Berry. I don't know that I ever really did, now that I think about it. They didn't come to Elyria. Not too many people did come to Elyria. Did you ever go downtown or anything in Downtown Cleveland? Not at that age, no. You know, before we could drive. None of us could drive before we were 16. So I remember once we went out to Vermillion to see Bobby Rydell. He was one of my favorites from that era. And that was one of the. One of the girls had turned 16 and her parents bought her a car. So we all piled in her car and went out there to see Bobby Rydell was during the summer. That was fun.

Dana Aritonovich [00:12:18] So what do you talk about Cleveland a little bit?

Sheila Blecman [00:12:21] Okay.

Dana Aritonovich [00:12:23] What do you remember hearing about. About the riots, like the Hough Riots, Glenville Riots, anything like that? If you. I mean, I know you were in Cleveland at that. No, but what do you remember? I mean, any kind of communication with your parents or any friends who lived here?

Sheila Blecman [00:12:38] No, I didn't. I really, like. I was in college during that period of time. I was down in Columbus, and most of what I remember I just saw on the news, and I didn't really have a whole lot of thinking about it one way or another. It just something that was happening, and it was too bad, and it was unfortunate, and I hope nobody gets hurt. And, I mean, those were pretty much all my feelings. I didn't know too much about it. I didn't get to know too much about it. I didn't take the initiative to find out too much about it. So I blame myself for that, too. But it just happened. That's what was happening. My father's grocery store in Elyria was in a Black neighborhood, and I got to know a lot of Black people through working in my dad's store. And I worked in my dad's store from the time I was about 10 years old. I worked on Saturdays. I worked on weekends. And I loved working in that store just because there were people that I had never even seen before, different types of people. I didn't see much at school as far as Blacks, but most of his customers were Black, and they were the nicest people. And I just thought, why is there a problem here? I couldn't understand why there was such a problem of Blacks and whites getting on. The ones that I met were Great. You know, they were very nice people and they treated me well, and my dad treated them real well. And they loved my father. And that's my early remembrances of race relations. We did have a cleaning lady at our house. We had a Black woman who used to come to our house. And I absolutely, totally loved her. And I remember every day she would leave and I would run up to hug her and she would always push me off. And she would always say, wait for tomorrow, child. Wait for tomorrow. I remember that so vividly. And I wondered why, why do I have to wait till tomorrow? But I think she knew that there was such a separation that it wouldn't be appropriate for me to embrace her. And she wouldn't let me embrace her. And I remember that too. Her name was Jenny K. Wood. I remember vividly. And when she passed on, my parents went to her funeral. They were the only white ones there, and they loved her as much as I did. She was a wonderful woman.

Dana Aritonovich [00:14:56] Were your parents involved in any kind of like community groups or anything like that in Elyria?

Sheila Blecman [00:15:04] No, just their little social groups of friends they played cards with and had dinners and, you know, the Jewish temple in Elyria. But, you know, we weren't. We were, you know, we went just on the holidays. We didn't really go on a regular basis.

Dana Aritonovich [00:15:21] And so tell me personally, what, what this music meant to you as a young person. Why? Why do you think this music appealed to you?

Sheila Blecman [00:15:29] Well, like I said before, it was our music. It wasn't. It wasn't my parents' music. They didn't mind that we listened to it. They didn't forbid us for listening. You know, I knew that some kids had parents that didn't want them to listen to that music. That was wild music and it was going to lead to wild behavior. And my parents didn't care. You know, they. They knew us well enough to know that it was. And I think my mother kind of got a kick out of watching my friends and I dancing away to this music. I think she enjoyed it and it was great music. And when we learned all the words to Maybelline, I mean, that was like the fun thing to learn all those words to those songs and figuring out what Little Richard was really saying. She sure likes to. What? You know. But yeah, the words. We had to know the words. You had to know the lyrics so you could sing along.

Dana Aritonovich [00:16:26] And what's the first song that you remember hearing of any kind of music that had some kind of like a social message or something that was like commenting on society at the time.

Sheila Blecman [00:16:35] Let me. I'll have to think about that one. I can't remember a specific song, but I do remember that a singer by the name of Pat Boone, who was white, he used to take a lot of the black songs and the old expression, make it his own. And they were just horrible. They were just terrible. But they sold. You know, the white kids were buying them. I didn't buy any Pat Boone's records. I didn't want any Pat Boone's records in my house. But he used to take Little Richard and some Chuck Berry and some of those songs and just make them white. And they just sounded so weird. And we all noticed it too. I mean, those of us that were really into the music scene, we noticed. That's not right. That's not even good.

Dana Aritonovich [00:17:27] So what year did you go to college?

Sheila Blecman [00:17:30] 64 through 68.

Dana Aritonovich [00:17:33] And then did you come right back here?

Sheila Blecman [00:17:35] Well, I came back for a week. And then in those days they were recruiting teachers and there was a recruiter from Los Angeles my senior year and I had a meeting. I signed up for a meeting and I had a contract signed with the L.A. City School District before I even graduated. So I came home to pack up my stuff and I flew out to L.A. and I lived in L.A. from '68 through '74.

Dana Aritonovich [00:18:02] And how would you compare L.A. at that time to the way that Northeast Ohio was at that time?

Sheila Blecman [00:18:10] Well, socially it was different. It was just completely different. It was big. Plus the fact that there were a lot of ethnic people there that I had never seen before. I had never been around Asians, I had never been around Latinos, and L.A. was just- And then I was teaching school and I had whole classes full of Japanese kids, whole classes full of Hispanic kids. And I didn't- I had to learn, you know, how there was- There was nothing really to learn other than what they were, who they were. And they were different than anything I had learned in Elyria. And it was just. It was a real culture expansion for me to learn all that and to be exposed to all that. I never knew what a taco was till I moved out to L.A. Yeah, I never even heard of it. And I know that my sister took me to someplace and got some refried beans and I thought they were the most vile thing I had ever eaten at the time. I've changed since then. So it was quite different. In the school that I taught in was grouped according to how well you did in school. And the- I don't know if you want to hear all this. I mean, the Asian kids were the top classes. The top classes were all Asian. I had 40 kids in a class and they were all Asian. One or two white kids in the, you know, the top classes. And these kids were such overachievers. It was amazing. It was just amazing. I was blown away by it. And I remember the music then. I remember the kids were just starting to bring their little teen magazines to school and they were all listening to the Jackson 5. That was the big thing then, the Jackson 5. And some of my kids now, I was 21 and they were like 13 or 14, so they weren't that much younger than me. A lot of the kids were listening to Bob Dylan then, too, you know, depending on the kid. And some of the kids that had sort of hippie parents were listening to Bob Dylan and that whole thing. But Jackson 5, that's what the kids were listening to then.

Dana Aritonovich [00:20:20] So how did you compare since- I mean, you looking at it differently because you're a teacher. But the young people in LA compared to young people in Cleveland, just not even necessarily academically, but just in general? Did you see a difference?

Sheila Blecman [00:20:36] Yeah, I think they were a little more socially. More socially experienced than the Cleveland. Well, I didn't know Cleveland that well. I'm just basing it from Elyria, Northeast Ohio. Yeah, I think it was a big. Yeah, they were much more socially advanced, I would say, because they were exposed to so many different ethnic groups and everybody mingled. I mean, everybody got along. It was interesting for me to see that because when I grew up in Elyria, the few Blacks that were in my school or when I went to high school, there were more, but they all kept themselves separate from everybody else in the lunchroom, especially the Black kids, all sat together in the lunchroom. And I never really questioned it, but I wondered about it, you know, why does it have to be that way? But, you know, they grew up in their neighborhood, so they wanted to be with their friends. And I assume that was all it was about, is just who you knew and who you hung out with and who you grew up with and didn't think too much else about it. There was one girl I remember vividly. She was a black girl and she was totally brilliant. And she was in all of our classes because we were in the college prep classes, but she was the only one. And when we all went to lunch, I remember she used to, like, have trouble deciding who to sit with. Should she sit with us because she was in classes with us, or should she sit with her neighborhood kids? But most of the time I remember, she sat with us because we were together all day. And, you know, everybody just accepted her like they accepted me. You know, being Jewish. I mean, it wasn't. I don't think anybody separated us because we were different. I didn't feel different except when I had to stay out for the holidays. That's when I felt different.

Dana Aritonovich [00:22:34] What kind of- Did you have any jobs when you were a kid?

Sheila Blecman [00:22:37] I only worked at my dad's store. Yeah, I worked weekends, Christmas holidays.

Dana Aritonovich [00:22:45] And did he pay you or you?

Sheila Blecman [00:22:47] Oh, sure. No, he gave me a little envelope with money. And I got to say, I saved up my money and I bought a lot of. That's what I bought records with, and I bought some of my clothes. I mean, my parents, they were okay, and they took care of me just fine. But I had my own money to buy records. I was getting into, like, little makeup then and little girly things, and I had my own money to buy that stuff. And when my friends would. We'd go downtown Elyria and go to the movies. And then there were two or three dime stores, and there was an Isley's. And we'd always have to go to Isley's. And for a dollar, you can get a whole lunch. And I'd go buy goldfish and makeup at the dime stores. Carry little bags of goldfish home.

Dana Aritonovich [00:23:32] So do you think. It seems like there's two experiences here, like working in your father's store in a Black neighborhood. So you were exposed to another race in school. Generally, you were not. And then the music. You know, a lot of Black artists you were listening to. So those seem to be the two influences that maybe made you more aware that maybe some of the people who lived in Greater Cleveland were of other cultures and people who lived in more segregated neighborhoods who only interacted with people of their own race.

Sheila Blecman [00:24:01] Yeah, that sounds pretty accurate.

Dana Aritonovich [00:24:05] So how do you think that music affected your peers, other people who may have been listening to this black music? Either if it's performed by Black artists or white artists like Pat Boone, or even other people like the Rolling Stones and anybody else who was inspired by this music, the other kids that you grew up with. Did you ever hear any racial comments from anybody else in your neighborhood?

Sheila Blecman [00:24:31] Not negative racial comments. I just remember some of the parents referred to the music as. I don't know. I don't remember the word. It was kind of like jigaboo music or something like that. They referred to the music, and they just thought it was all kind of wild and crazy. But I don't really honestly remember hearing unless I was just totally naive to it. I don't remember hearing it, not when I was a kid growing up.

Dana Aritonovich [00:25:06] So do you think the problem was maybe more like the parents not understanding the music?

Sheila Blecman [00:25:11] Well, yeah, I think it was a lot of that. And they're putting their thoughts on their kids too. I have friends here in Cleveland Heights now, white friends that grew up, born, raised and grew up in Cleveland Heights. And, you know, 99 to 100% white friends that they had. And they have different views than I do even today, you know, they think differently about some things. They don't listen to any Black music. They never did. Maybe Diana Ross, but everybody listened to her. But I don't think they were into like Chuck Berry, Little Richard, some of the groups. I just don't think they did.

Dana Aritonovich [00:25:50] So do you think that kind of music and your experience working in your father's door has shaped you for the rest of your interviews? 

Sheila Blecman [00:25:55] Oh, sure. Definitely. Yeah, definitely. It's exposure. It's all it is, just exposure and talking to other people like they're just other people. That's all they are.

Dana Aritonovich [00:26:08] So what do you think the role of music is in society? In any kind of art? What do you think it's supposed to do for humanity?

Sheila Blecman [00:26:17] Good question. Well, it's stimulating and it brings people together. People that are attracted to a certain sound, a certain look, whatever it is, it brings people together. Not all people are going to like everything. But when you want to have people that you have things in common with, it doesn't matter what color they are if they like the same music. I mean, that's how I see it. If they're listening to the same music. Yeah, because I used to. I mean, when I was starting to teach, I was always drawn to the kids that were listening to Bob Dylan. Because that's what I was listening to then. And I sort of would draw myself to those kids. And they exposed me to the Jackson 5 because I wasn't listening to, you know, teeny bop rock and rollin in those days. And so I started listening to the Jackson 5. I mean, I've been a big fan of the. Of the Jacksons since. Since then, since they came out. When he was a kid, I've been a huge fan. So they brought me to that, my students. And they weren't necessarily Black students. They were just all my students. That's what they were listening to in their day. So it's like opening your eyes to what other people are listening to, you know, it's being exposed to different things.

Dana Aritonovich [00:27:37] And so what do you think the legacy of that music is today? Obviously music is different, but it's not. Parents still don't like the music the kids listen to. Kids still want to listen to what they want to listen to and whatever the opposite of their parents' music is. Do you think that the music that you grew up with has an impact that kids today could benefit from?

Sheila Blecman [00:28:00] Yeah, oh definitely. I think so. Yeah. It's bottom line is it's good music and some of the music that's out today and I do like a lot of the current music, but some of it is really awful and the lyrics, if you can even understand them, are terrible. And I don't know that I'd want my kid listening to some of the lyrics that I hear. Cars that drive past me, cars in parking lots with their windows rolled out. I mean some of the lyrics are just awful. But those, I don't think those songs are going to have staying power like the music that I listen to or that we did when we were kids or even some of the better music that's out now. It's just not going to be around in five years, hopefully.

Dana Aritonovich [00:28:39] And what is it about those songs that you think still that we are listening to some of this stuff 50 years later?

Sheila Blecman [00:28:45] What is it about them? Yeah, why do you think it's still, I mean for, you know, I mean, I'm younger but I mean I grew up listening to that too.

Sheila Blecman [00:28:51] Right.

Dana Aritonovich [00:28:52] Knowing that it was old music. Yeah, I just, it was good music to me. What do you think makes that music last that you, that you don't think is going to last with the stuff

Sheila Blecman [00:29:02] that's on the radio? Well, an example in my store once years ago I was playing, I was playing some Frank Sinatra music and one of the girls that was working for me at the time said, oh, that was before my time. And I thought, and I said to her, I says, well, you know, it was before my time too, but it's still good music and you can't take that away. It's good music. I mean, listen to his voice, listen to Tony Bennett's voice. It's good music. Bottom line. I think that's what causes it to have staying power in the lyrics to most of the songs, especially the love songs. I mean, you just don't hear stuff like that anymore. And it's very tender and it's very touching and everybody wants to have those lovey dovey feelings. So when you listen to those love songs, I mean they're, they're quite exciting.

Dana Aritonovich [00:29:54] And do you? Is there anybody that might be, you know, popular right now who you think is that you can kind of see the legacy of that music in right now? Like, anybody who maybe is not necessarily on the radio all the time, but they are performing currently and they are? They are actually like an artist. They're not just out there to make money, right?

Sheila Blecman [00:30:15] Well, I probably have to throw Beyonce in there. I think a lot of her stuff is really good, and I think she'll stick around. I think her music will too. And believe it or not, I think a lot of Kanye west music is really good, and I think his will stick around and let me think who else I could probably, within the hour, come up with a bunch more.

Dana Aritonovich [00:30:41] And so what do you wish that young people today under? About that music that you liked, what they understood about it? What do you wish they, you know, when you have people say, well, it's before my time. Why should I listen to something that's old?

Sheila Blecman [00:30:57] Right? That's it. They don't want to listen to anything that's old. They want to be current. And what I tried to, especially this girl that used to work for me, I said, you know, when you're 40, you're not going to want to listen to the same music you're listening to now. She's, oh, I'm going to stay current. I'm going to stay current. But those musicians that she was listening to in her 20s, they're not going to be around in her 40s. And I don't know where she is now. She's not even living in the area anymore. But I'd be real curious to see where she is right now. What did she used to listen to? Oh, Duran Duran was her. Was her big favorite group. Yeah, she's probably about the same age you are, I would imagine.

Dana Aritonovich [00:31:35] It is a different kind of music and that kind of. It's a different moment in society. What do you think it was about the 50s and 60s that created that kind of music? That we. We don't have the same kind of values as far as, you know, expressing ourselves. I mean, back then, one of the criticisms was, you know, like you said earlier, like, this music's gonna cause teenage delinquency and sex and all this stuff. And it's like, well, that stuff was going on before that music came around. The music just kind of talked about it, but it wasn't talking about it in your face way that a lot of songs do today. But at the time, parents thought the same thing that people think now, you know, about how vulgar the music was and the way Elvis danced was. Was so disgusting, and people were so offended by that stuff and. And like Little Richard and, I mean, how much, how much of the criticism of that music do you think was racially motivated?

Sheila Blecman [00:32:30] Probably most of it, I would think, because they were the ones doing, making the good music up until, let's say, maybe. Well, when the Beatles came out, I mean, that was a whole. I think what it did, too, is it gave kids independence. And I think getting the independence, it separated them from their parents in a lot of ways. They went- They liked different things, they were interested in different things. And the music that was out in those days made it possible for kids to be independent and not have to sit home and listen to the same things their parents were listening to. There was so much more available, and it was so readily available with radio and television. And I think. I've always said, I think 1963, the big things that happened in that year, of course, the Vietnam War and the Beatles and the assassination of President Kennedy, I think those things made a huge change in society. As far as separating, you know, you were either for the war, you were against the war. You know, you either like Kennedy or you didn't like Kennedy. And I think all those things happening at the same time just really separated a lot of people and. Go ahead.

Dana Aritonovich [00:33:44] So do you think those kind of big events had an impact on the way musicians saw their role in society?

Sheila Blecman [00:33:49] Oh, yeah. Especially like during the Vietnam War. Then a lot of musicians came out, you know, in protest and tried to make people think for themselves and make people think differently than what the government was trying to make them think. And it was the musicians that did that. Crosby, Still's, Nash and Young did it. Can you turn off for a second? It's probably a storm.

Dana Aritonovich [00:34:16] Okay. We were talking about how Vietnam was one of the things that inspired musicians to start kind of speaking out. Do you think it's. Do you think a lot of people like that artists, whatever form, are speaking out on social issues? Because I know a lot of times these days when at awards shows and they might make speeches about some political issue or another, and some people think they should just not talk about that stuff.

Sheila Blecman [00:34:39] Maybe the award show is not the right venue for doing that. But I think if they incorporate it into their music and their lyrics, I mean, that that's the way they affect people and get the message out, I definitely believe that. And people gravitate toward that, too. People that have those Same feelings. People. A lot of people in my generation that really wondered what. What the hell's going on in this Vietnam War? It was terrible. And then all the music was coming out, and we all gravitated toward that. And we all started putting peace signs on our car. And that's the way that we identified with. With each other.

Dana Aritonovich [00:35:15] Do you think artists have an obligation to speak out on these issues?

Sheila Blecman [00:35:20] No, I don't think they have an obligation. I think, you know, some do. If they want to do it, that's fine. I don't think it's an obligation.

Dana Aritonovich [00:35:33] What other? What other? Like maybe when you're in college, who else are you listening to?

Sheila Blecman [00:35:40] Hmm.

Dana Aritonovich [00:35:41] You mentioned Moetown, and you mentioned, like, later on listening to Bob Dylan. What else? 

Sheila Blecman [00:35:43] Yeah, during college it was a lot of, you know, we didn't have record players and stereos in our rooms, and it was pretty medieval at that time. I mean, we just didn't have too much exposure. We. We had if those of us that had radios in our room or when we came home for vacation. But I. I remember coming home from Christmas vacation and listening to Shirley Ellis's "The Name Game." I mean, that was. That was a big one then. I don't. Don't remember a whole lot of other things we listened to during college other than Motown, because we were dancing then too, and, you know, there's nothing like dancing to a good Motown song. "I Can't Help Myself." That was a good one. And everybody knew the hand gestures. And.

Dana Aritonovich [00:36:35] What do you remember hearing about? Maybe any other kind of, you know, racial incidents that were happening across the country. For example, like the Watts riots in 1990, 1965. And actually right before the Hough riots in '66, there were some major riots in Detroit. What do you remember hearing about other things going on outside of Cleveland?

Sheila Blecman [00:36:57] Well, I was living in LA during the Watts Riots. '66, you said? No, that's- No. I wasn't living out there yet. But I remember when I first went out to la, I had a contract sign, but I had to get my school assigned to me, so I had to meet with someone and. And she was putting me in a high school that was right in Watts, and I. I was afraid to go there. Here I was, 21, right out of college, no teaching experience, and I. She wanted me to teach in Watts, and I just said, I don't. I really don't want to do that. And she was telling me that if I wanted a job, I'd have to. Well, I got my own job and found my own school and I didn't have to go to Watts. But what I did get was a great mixture. A great mixture. I had kids living on their yachts in the Marina del Rey and I had kids living in housing projects on the other side of the street. And they were all mixed in one school. I loved that because I got a great- Okay, getting back to the original question.

Dana Aritonovich [00:37:56] Well, you obviously must have known something.

Sheila Blecman [00:37:58] Well, sure, I didn't want to go teach in Watts. I just, I was, it was a safety issue. It wasn't- Had nothing to do with, you know, a prejudice or anything. I was just, you know, they just tore the city apart and I was supposed to go in there and teach. I really didn't want to do that without any experience behind me.

Dana Aritonovich [00:38:16] What about. I know, actually some of the research I've been doing lately. I think I'm looking at 1968 right now. And there was a lot of upheaval at Ohio State with like some, one of the black student groups. They were trying to. A lot of the student groups like all over the country and different universities were trying to take over the university. They were protesting all kinds of different things. What do you remember about those protests at Ohio State?

Sheila Blecman [00:38:38] All I remember my senior year, I remember there was a lot of. There were a lot of protests about the Vietnam War and that's when they were burning their draft cards and parading in the streets and having sit ins at the administration buildings. And personally I was doing my student teaching and I just wanted to finish my student teaching and get out of there. I wasn't, I didn't participate in it. I was a little nervous about it. Just a little nervous about getting involved and stuff like that, just for the safety issues. And I just wanted to, you know, finish what I was doing, graduate and get out. So I wasn't a participant. I was aware of it.

Dana Aritonovich [00:39:19] And what about other, other things? Like what do you remember about JFK's assassination?

Sheila Blecman [00:39:24] Oh, I just remember it was on a Friday and I was just leaving school for the day and I was at my locker and the principal came over and just said that the President had been shot. And everybody just loved JFK. I mean, Elyria was a predominantly Republican city, but I remember that when he was campaigning, he drove through downtown Elyria and I was just, he was on his way to Oberlin to do. Do a campaign speech. And I was leaving school and I saw the crowd and I got up in front of the crowd and I got to touch him when he came by, you know, in Those days, they were still sitting in the back, and he was there, and Jackie was in the car behind him. And I reached my hand up and I got to touch him on his arm. And of course, I was a huge Kennedy supporter. And I think the election was 1960. The election was the next day, and he won by a hair. I remember when we went to bed that night, it hadn't even been determined yet. It was so close. And I found my diary from when I was 14 years old, and I found in my diary that big letters, Kennedy wins. And I have goosebumps thinking about it. But, yeah, he was young and he was energetic and he had children, and it was just. It was Camelot. I mean, that's how we all saw the White House. And when he was assassinated, it's like our security was gone. You know, we just. The. The fear of, you know, what happens next. And then. Then everybody involved with the Kennedy assassination, one by one, they got knocked off. Everybody, including, well, of course, Lee Harvey Oswald and was Jack Ruby, and then I'm. Even some of the other people that interviewed him. I mean, Dorothy Kilgallen died like a year later. And there was just- It was just a real feeling of not being safe anymore. And I don't think Lyndon Baines Johnson had the likability and all that John Kennedy did. And it was- It was a scary time, you know, because it was just so uncertain. And if this could happen to him, it could happen to anybody. And I know Bobby Kennedy was campaigning and spoke at Ohio State, like a week before he was assassinated. And I couldn't go because I was doing my student teaching, and he was there in the morning and he died, like two days before our graduation. And you could have heard a pin drop in that stadium because everybody was just so, like, what. What happens next? It was terrible. It really was. It was a real instant of growing up, of all of us. Just all of a sudden, you know, we were grown ups, we were out of school, everybody's getting murdered. People that we put our faith and trust in, and they're gone. What happens next?

Dana Aritonovich [00:42:08] He died two months after Martin Luther King. Yeah, that's what a lot of riots were going.

Sheila Blecman [00:42:12] Right. That was my senior year, and there was a lot going on then. A lot.

Dana Aritonovich [00:42:18] So what do you remember before Martin Luther King assassination? Reading about him in the papers or hearing anybody talking about? Because I know he came to Cleveland a few times. I know some. One of my previous interviews was talking about, you know, him coming here and they went to see him speak and everything and what do you remember about him specifically, and if he appealed to you in any kind?

Sheila Blecman [00:42:38] Oh, yeah, definitely. He was- He was saying the things that a lot of us were thinking about. You know, we're all created equal and that kind of thing. And, you know, the blacks in this country were really. They weren't doing well, and somebody had to come forth and just. I can't even put it in words. It was. He was so necessary, and I haven't really seen anybody come up since him. That's really made the impact that he has, that he did. And, yeah, definitely supportive. And it was like, when he got shot, it was just, you know, the- OMG. Oh, my God, what do we do? What's going on here? It was. It was. How old were you when that happened? Were you even born yet? I was born five years ago, but.

Dana Aritonovich [00:43:32] I remember my mom telling me all these stories. She has all the newspapers from, you know, JFK and Bobby Kennedy and all that. So that's part of why I'm interested in this, hearing my mom's stories and my uncle and stuff. But when I've been doing my research on this and I've looked at the papers, you know, playing together in the Call and Post and, you know, the days. The days leading up to these assassinations, all of them, and the day after, and just reading them, even though I wasn't there, makes me cry, because you see how important these people were to young people, especially, you know, Bobby Kennedy. It's like, you know, his brother just died five years earlier, and then he's campaigning, and everybody's like, he's gonna get the nomination. And he was on the verge of it, and all of a sudden, he's gone, too. You know, people were not even recovered from Martin Luther King yet. And then you all of a sudden, like, you know, who's gonna be. Who's become the nominee? And then the Democratic Candidates Convention a couple months later, and all the riots in Chicago and, you know, and. And with Vietnam and everybody. And everybody's protesting something, and it just seemed like a really, like, bizarre moment in American history. 1968, just so much exploding in every way.

Sheila Blecman [00:44:33] It definitely. And it was like. Like I said before, I was just- That was my senior year, my last quarter. I was. I just wanted to graduate. And it's like I didn't give myself the opportunity to get involved in any of this stuff. You know, I had. I was just so focused on finishing school, getting out, and I was moving to the west coast, and I had all this stuff going on, and I was paying attention to it, but I wasn't as involved in it as I might have been if I didn't have other things. But I know to this day, some of my friends and I still talk about what if. What if JFK had never been assassinated and served his terms. What if Bobby Kennedy had been president? How different, different things would be right now. And for sure, they'd be hugely different than they are right now for the better. That's how I feel, and that's how a lot of us feel.

Dana Aritonovich [00:45:23] And what do you think the impact of those particular events, you know, in such a short period of time? What do you- What do you think? How do you think music responded to those? Because I know in general, you know, right after Martin Luther King was assassin, like the day of or the day after in Boston, James Brown was gonna be performing, and they were afraid to have him perform because they were afraid, you know, Black people were gonna riot. That was basically it. So the mayor of Boston convinced him to let them broadcast his concert for free on public television to keep everybody home and calm.

Sheila Blecman [00:45:57] Wow.

Dana Aritonovich [00:45:58] And so- And- But James Brown is a businessman, too. He wanted to make sure he got paid because a lot of people bought tickets, and he was afraid that if they could stay him and watch for free, they wouldn't come down and see him. But they got a massive crowd at Boston Garden, and there were. You know, they. Basically, the people in the neighborhood stayed. There weren't many major incidents or anything, so he had a big impact on speaking out that night. And he was not particularly a fan of Martin Luther King. He was more militant. He was more like, on, you know, with the Black Panthers type side. Like, more just, you know, get in their face and don't try to integrate. Just try to, you know, be independent. And when I mentioned this to another interviewee earlier, they mentioned on. There was a local. There was a Cleveland radio station, that there were two, you know, quote, unquote, black stations. And one of them was, like, the daytime station, one was the nighttime station. And the daytime station actually had to go to the FCC and request to be able to go on all night the night of the assassination to make sure they could stay on the radio to talk to people, you know, have, you know, people on there to, you know, like, talk radio and then put the music on for other people to listen to so they would stay home so there wouldn't be big outbursts here. Which, of course, a few months later, Glenville riots happened.

Sheila Blecman [00:47:10] Yeah. What year was this?

Dana Aritonovich [00:47:11] '68.

Sheila Blecman [00:47:12] Okay.

Dana Aritonovich [00:47:13] Because Martin Luther King died in April. And then two months later, Bobby. And then in July, where the Glenville Riots. So things were gonna happen.

Sheila Blecman [00:47:21] Unsettled. A very unsettled time all over.

Dana Aritonovich [00:47:29] So at that time, like we said earlier, musicians did, you know, they felt obligated to start speaking out. And one of the issues Marvin Gaye was having was, you know, Barry Gordy didn't want his musicians to be overtly political. You know, he wanted them to, you know, music that everybody can enjoy. You're just- You're kind of, you know, stepping back from reality or just having a good time listening to music. Music. But then Marvin Gaye started feeling very guilty that he wasn't speaking out more. And so eventually he was allowed to. Eventually, Temptations started doing more, like Ball of Confusion songs like that. But that wasn't until, like, 69 or 70. Do you think it would have made a difference earlier on if musicians had been more openly political? I mean, there were protest songs, a lot of folk singers doing songs, but that wasn't necessarily stuff that was getting played on radio. And the kids were really. Unless they were college kids, right?

Sheila Blecman [00:48:19] I think probably, yeah. But I think they might have been a little concerned about their careers, too. And they didn't want to do anything that. That was going to affect their career in a negative way. So I'm sure there was a lot of feelings of, what do we do now? What should we be doing? And what. Like you said, maybe they should have been more political and more outspoken. But I think they were concerned about their careers, too, and had to keep putting out music that was going to sell records because that's how they made their living.

Dana Aritonovich [00:48:56] And with all the stuff that's going on in the world right now, I mean, we are in war right now and. But we're not seeing it on TV like we saw right now. We're not seeing bodies coming home, and we're not seeing protests. We're not seeing. 

Sheila Blecman [00:49:05] I mean, I thought about that when during the Vietnam War, unless the news coverage is just leaning, you know, they're veering away from it. When I was- I remember the Vietnam War, you saw protests on the news every night in cities all over the country. Even in Europe. You know, there were protests, protest protests, people marching with signs. And you rarely see any of it now. I don't know whether it's the younger people are just not getting involved or the news isn't covering it. I'm not real sure, but I haven't seen very much of it or. Like you said, though, you know, we Used to see on the tv, on the news, the body bags coming home. And. And you don't see much of that. Just don't. It's not. Not available to us.

Dana Aritonovich [00:49:49] And that. That actually really started with, you know, the first Gulf War. I remember when I was in high school when. When the war started in 1990, '91. And well, the invasion was '90, like February of '91, I think, was when we finally went in. And I remember there was just a big deal about. They're not showing. You're not seeing bodies on the field. You're not seeing anybody in the desert with their head blown off. You're seeing these missiles in the middle of the night and they're hitting something. You're not seeing where it's hitting. So it's so sanitized now. And with Vietnam, you're seeing everything that's going on. You had reporters on the field, which we don't. We're not doing right now. So do you think maybe the fact that it's not in front of us, because TV is so. And the Internet now, too. Everything is available to us instantaneously. You can see everything, but they're not showing everything.

Sheila Blecman [00:50:32] Right.

Dana Aritonovich [00:50:33] And do you think the fact that we're not. We should be exposed to it more? Because there's more way to be exposed these days. But we're not. And do you think part of it, the reason that musicians these days are not being as political as they were back then is because of that? Because technology maybe has changed, politics are different now. Things are not as contentious maybe, because. Because, you know, the war right now, I mean, there are people who are very, very much for it, and there are still people who are on both sides now.

Sheila Blecman [00:51:04] Right.

Dana Aritonovich [00:51:04] It just doesn't seem there's as much public debate about it.

Sheila Blecman [00:51:07] I agree. I don't think there is. And I think some of the current musicians, you know, they were afraid to get into that. That folk music style that. That we experience, or I experienced when I was younger. They're afraid to get into that because they want to continue to sell their music. That's how, again, that's how they make their living. But I think what you said is very accurate. They're not seeing so much of it. And so I don't know if it's that they forget about it or don't think about it. It's not there like it was before. It's just not there. And I think I kind of already asked this. Why is that?

Dana Aritonovich [00:51:55] Why don't people. I mean, is it just a business decision or is it because that was Berry Gordy's reason? He didn't want anybody, you know, to cut. I mean, obviously, you know, he's a Black man in Detroit with his own record company. That's, you know, all. Everybody who worked there was Black. But it was not just Black music fans listening to it. But he still didn't want to rock the boat, you know, and they had to, you know, really twist his arm to get him to let his artists start releasing. And they didn't go to, you know, any kind of rallies unless it was something very, very generic, I would say. So he was definitely worried about the business angle of it, I think, and not wanting to come across as being very political. Even though being a Black man owning his own record, you know, label in Detroit, that's political just by nature.

Sheila Blecman [00:52:44] Sure.

Dana Aritonovich [00:52:45] But he was first and foremost a businessman. That's my analysis of him. And I don't know, we don't really have anybody like that these days. But then again, these days, too, a lot of Black artists do have their own labels. Everybody's got their own label these days. So I do think that people like that, who obviously, without Berry Gordy, none of them be around today. Do you think those artists maybe have some sort of obligation to speak out about not necessarily the war, but any other social issues that are going on? Like, you know, Marvin Gaye felt a sense of obligation when his brother came back from Vietnam.

Sheila Blecman [00:53:16] Right.

Dana Aritonovich [00:53:17] And he learned what was going on. You know, his album What's Going On came out a few years later. Having that personal connection is something that's beyond what you see in your front door. You know, do you think people these days, you know, anybody who has their own label or any other kind of personal stake, do you think they should feel an obligation to talk about what's going on?

Sheila Blecman [00:53:40] Whether they should and whether they do or. Two different things? Maybe they should. Yeah. But I think a lot of them are afraid to get caught up in, like we said before, in that trap of politics and that the young kids that are out there buying the records aren't going to buy those political type songs and records. They're just not into it as much as some of the older people are. Maybe because they haven't lived through it like we all have with Vietnam. And. Well, I wasn't here for World War II, but that was a whole different thing.

Dana Aritonovich [00:54:12] Yeah. Okay, well, I think we're done. Unless there's anything else you want to add, any other memories you want to. 

Sheila Blecman [00:54:21] I can't think of anything right now. I'm sure on my way home, I'll think of a million things. If I think of some good stuff, I'll email you.

Dana Aritonovich [00:54:35] Or I'm gonna be doing follow up with everybody.

Sheila Blecman [00:54:38] Just. Okay.

Dana Aritonovich [00:54:39] You know, correct spelling or anything else.

Sheila Blecman [00:54:41] Okay.

Dana Aritonovich [00:54:41] Okay, great. Well, thank you so much.

Sheila Blecman [00:54:43] I hope some of this you can use.

Dana Aritonovich [00:54:44] Absolutely. Oh, I got two pages of notes.

Sheila Blecman [00:54:46] Okay, thank you. Great.

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