Virgie Patton-Ezelle Interview, 28 October 2008

Abstract

Artist Virgie Patton-Ezelle, a native Clevelander, discusses her life and career as an artist. Ms. Patton-Ezelle describes the earliest recognition of her artistic ability and its impact on her identity. She notes individuals who encouraged her to pursue art as a professional, especially her teacher at John Hay High School, Mrs. Shidoba; artist John Ferguson of Karamu House; her instructors at the Cleveland Institute of Art, including artists Paul Travis and John Tyrell; and arts patron Richard Sherra. Patton-Ezelle also describes her work for the Finished Art Department at American Greetings Corporation, select exhibits of her work, and the attraction of New York City to artists in smaller markets such as Cleveland. The artist describes her creative process, as well as the themes, composition, color, and materials used in her painting. Patton-Ezelle also describes the meaning of spirituality and race in her life and art. Also notewiorthy is Patton-Ezelle's recollection of her family experience during the Great Depression, and her appraisal of the arts projects sponsored by the WPA (Works Projects Administration). At the close of this interview, gallery owner William Busta enters the room to discuss an upcoming exhibition of African-American artists, entitled "In Their Own Voice," which is to include Patton-Ezelle's work.

Interviewee

Patton-Ezelle, Virgie (interviewee)

Interviewer

Dean, Sharon (interviewer)

Project

Cleveland Artists Foundation

Date

10-28-2008

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

78 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Virgie Patton-Ezelle Interview, 28 October 2008" (2008). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 901016.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/208

Related Resources

Each in Their Own Voice: African American Artists in Cleveland, 1970-2005 @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:00:00] Hi.

Sharon Dean [00:00:03] I’m Sharon Dean. I’m the director of the Cleveland Artists Foundation, and I’m here today with Virgie Patton-Ezelle, a lifelong Clevelander and a wonderful artist. And Virgie, I wonder if you can talk about yourself, what your birth date is, where you’re from. Just a little introduction about you.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:00:23] I am a native Clevelander, as you said. Been here. I’ve lived here all my life, although I had had many opportunities to leave the area briefly and travel. And I was. I am married. And of course, I lost my husband last year, and we had six children. I lost a younger daughter in 1991. But the others are still on the planet, doing fine, you know, in their various areas, you know, of endeavor.

Sharon Dean [00:01:07] I wonder if, just for the record, you can give your birth date.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:01:10] Pardon?

Sharon Dean [00:01:10] Your birthday.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:01:12] Uh oh.

Sharon Dean [00:01:12] Just for the record.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:01:15] Listen, this is for the records.

Sharon Dean [00:01:17] Only for the record.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:01:18] Only for the record. And, you know, you can see it in print, you know, in the directory, the thing, whatever. Whatever goes down.

Sharon Dean [00:01:27] To be fair, we’re asking all the artists.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:01:28] 19- May 18, 19- You ready? ’28.

Sharon Dean [00:01:35] Is it a big year for you, then?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:01:37] It’s a big year. But you know something? They always say it’s up here, and it is. If somebody told me that was my age, I wouldn’t believe.

Sharon Dean [00:01:53] Well, that brings up something interesting. That’s okay. It brings up a place to start. When did you first know that you wanted to be an artist? That you realized you had artistic ability?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:02:10] You know, I was at a very, very young age, would you believe, five years old? But it wasn’t that I thought about being an artist. I was in the kindergarten, and I remember my mother, the teacher, sent for my parents to come see this work that I had done. And the principal, you know, and my mother came, and it was after school, all the kids had gone home. And, you know, I can remember this vividly the day. For some reason or other, it stays in my mind because it was kind of dark day, and they had my work spread out on the floor and they were discussing me, which I was very aware of. But somehow another. It didn’t mean that much to me. I knew what was going on, but I was busy playing with the blocks and things, putting them on the shelves. And so that was to be really where it all began, the knowing that I was in this world, you know, in this artistic way. And of course, after that, it was. There was a lot of focus on me with the schools, you know, and, you know, they always had these contests. Home and garden. Beautiful garden. Well, Clean. You know, they have this thing where you clean up, clean up, light up, paint up, fix up. And I always won, you know, these contests. And the same thing happened in junior high school went on, you know, being thought of as the school’s artists, you know, contests and so forth on through senior high, same thing. And I recall in high school winning the National Easter Seal Design Contest. And it was, you know, we were. School had let out and kids were, you know, leaving, and someone approached me in the hall. Virgie, Virgie, Mrs. Shadova wants to see you. You know, And I went up New York and she was in tears. And she said, Virgie, you won. But she was just a wonderful high school art teacher. She always saw to it that I was engaged and whatever there was, you know, the various contests and so forth. 

Sharon Dean [00:05:03] What did you draw? Do you remember what you drew for the contest?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:05:07] I do, and I believe it was a wheelchair with a little girl in it, sitting in it. And I don’t remember too much else other than it was a wheelchair and a little girl sitting in it. And what the other symbolism was, I can’t remember. But I remember Mrs. Halle Little, you know, the Halle people. She was on one of the judges. And so there was an old banquet, I remember downtown, I think it was at Halle department store. And Tex Beneke, you’re not old enough to know, it’s one of those bands like Tommy Dorsey and so forth. And he played. It was really amazing. So that was that. But it was always these banquets and things, receiving these awards. And of course, it’s interesting that the Scholastic Art Awards, it’s still present. The teacher always made sure that I had entered that. So there were the gold keys and so forth. And it’s also. See, about five or six years ago, I was asked to be one of the judges at the Cleveland School of the Arts for the National [inaudible] Awards. So went full circle, which was fun.

Sharon Dean [00:06:59] I wonder you talk a little bit about your mentor, the influence of your high school art teacher. I wonder if you can talk about some of the other major influences on you in becoming an artist.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:07:10] Well, just another little word about her, Mrs. Shitoba. Oh, she was wonderful. She was like a mentor. She became-

Sharon Dean [00:07:19] Which high school did you go to?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:07:20] John Hay. She was like a parent. And she sort of took a personal, very personal interest in me. And she wanted to make sure that I had art supplies at home to work with and experiment and so forth. And there was John Clague in Cleveland here. He was a wonderful sculptor. We were there together and she always pointed him out to me because he was a real go getter, you know. And I was a dreamer. And I would sit in class and dream, you know. And so she became concerned, wondering if I had problems and so forth. But anyway, she was. She was amazing. But some other mentors I suppose I could think of. Karamu House, you know, I spent time over there as a youngster.

Sharon Dean [00:08:32] You took classes there?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:08:33] I did classes there. I was there quite a few years doing classes. There was painting and drawing and sculpture, and there was. This came a little bit later, of course, you know, the sculpture over there. But there was. Oh, boy. Never lost his name before. But Duncan Ferguson, he was a wonderful teacher. And he was always encouraging me because I think I came into the first class about two weeks after the class had started, and there was a model there, you know, and he got me set up. And as I started to sculpt, I ended up with my piece at the point where the other students were. And he was very impressed with that. And so from then on, I became like his pet student. You know, he was always there and trying to find out how much interest I had really had in sculpture because I was painting and he. I was doing more painting than sculpting. And he offered this scholarship. So he wanted to know which one took precedence over the other. And when I mentioned painting, I guess. But he still was there for me, always. And out of that came some real good things.

Sharon Dean [00:10:22] I wonder if you can talk more about your art education. Was it mostly at Karamu or did you go Cleveland School of the Art as well?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:10:31] Well, Karamu. Well, beyond that, of course, you know, in junior high school, I can. There was all. There was this thing where each school sent three students to the Institute of Art to Saturday morning classes, and they were given scholarships. They called them half scholarships because you couldn’t go full time. Naturally, from the start of junior high school, the teacher always sent me, along with two other students. It’s kind of interesting. I remember the teacher there. She would always. She said, well, Virgie, who else can we send? You know, because it was just obvious that you knew to her that I was going to go there. And so I continued that all through junior high school. And the same thing occurred throughout senior high school. And so I got a little taste of a good taste of the institute. And of course, there was a school at the time called John Huntington Polytechnic Institute. Oh, you know about that? Yeah, I remember going there. It was a Free school. And, yeah, I went there to classes, and it was life drawing classes and- And, you know, I still have those drawings that I did at that school. I still have. They’re all together, you know, sort of in a. The paper, you know, yellowed and became old. So I tore them out and put together like a puzzle. And they were framed professionally because with those drawings, I got into the - later - got into the Greeting, American Greeting Card Company.

Sharon Dean [00:12:43] What did you do for them?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:12:44] Well, my high school teacher told me to go there. She gave me a- She said, you go there right after graduating. She said, don’t worry about whether or not you can do what they want you to do. She said, oh. She said, don’t worry about- Don’t let your color hold you back from doing anything. There are some times then, you know, we went through some pretty tough times then, but I didn’t experience myself personally, much of it. But anyway, that’s what she said to me. And I. I. One day, I just. I didn’t go right away. I was timid, you know, and a little bit backwards about it. But I put some things together in a portfolio and I went march into the Green and card company, and Mr. Hawthorne, he looked at it and he said, it was his assistant. And she looked at it and she said, I think Mr. Hawthorne would like to see this. And he came in from lunch and he looked at it, and we ended up shaking hands. He said, we’re happy to have you join us. So there was. I almost forgot the question.

Sharon Dean [00:14:11] What did you do for American Greetings?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:14:13] At American, what did I do? I ended up in the finished art department, you know, because- And that was because of my drawing skills. I- You know, everybody likes to be in the creative end of it, but where you can draw and, you know, refine lines. That’s where I ended up. But that was okay, you know, it was a fun place to be.

Sharon Dean [00:14:40] So you were quality control. You were quality control on everything that went out. Make sure it looked good.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:14:46] Oh, you know, I always had expected a lot of myself. And I can remember in school, even in later on at the institute, you know, I had instructors tell me, you’re your own best critic or worst critic. I guess there was something about me that they could see that I pressed and pressed and I, you know, I demanded a lot of myself in my work. I don’t know how they came, arrived at it, but it was true. I still do. I feel that way.

Sharon Dean [00:15:26] Yeah. I noticed in your work. I was looking at some of it online, and I notice your work is- There’s almost an isolation to the individuals in your work. Even though you sometimes paint more than one person in your paintings, each one of them seems alone. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that in your work.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:15:53] Which one?

Sharon Dean [00:15:54] Well, there’s a painting where there’s a group of silhouetted figures that are in. They’re almost like it’s in a very textural, leafy environment. But some are in repose, some are standing, and they’re together. But there doesn’t seem to be an interaction between them. And I wonder if you can. Not that they don’t have relationship to each other, object relationship. But they all seem to be in their own world. I wonder if you can talk about that.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:16:22] Well, I guess that’s just something that just happened that way. Because I don’t recall anything about my painting or any thoughts as I went about them that would bring that about. But composition was always important to me. And I liked unusual compositions. You know, something that was a little different from what you might see. You know, two people together, just posing together. So I guess I can’t really. I don’t think I have an answer for how that might have appeared to you.

Sharon Dean [00:17:11] Well, it’s always a personal reaction, I suppose.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:17:14] Yes, of course.

Sharon Dean [00:17:15] But I also noticed that the materials. You have very unusual use of materials. And materials seem to. Different materials and colors seem to flow into each other. And I wonder if you can talk about how you combine those materials together.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:17:30] I always like the painterly effect, you know, rather than rigid lines. So I guess that’s probably the answer to that. I didn’t. You know, I- For some reason, at a very young age, I was just- I guess through observation of things that I had seen and art books, which I love to look into, and visiting the art museum, I spent a lot of time there observing brushstrokes and all there was there to get. But I just somehow didn’t want to stay within the realm of the exactness, you know, I like to. First of all, I started out as a watercolorist. And that gives you a lot of opportunity for free flow, overlapping and seeing through color. And although you can’t quite do all that with oil paints, you can do some of it, you know. So I suppose it was the looseness. I wanted a certain. Not that loose, but I wanted a certain kind of free feeling looseness. I said something there to remind me that reminded me of when I was at the institute doing watercolor. I was pretty adept at it at a very young age. In fact, during- It might have been during the elementary period, like 8, 10, 12, or something like that, when I was going out to the Institute on Saturdays. And I remember a little still life the teacher had set up and the fruit and so forth. And I was painting, and he came around and he asked had I had painting before. Have you ever painted before? I said no. And he kept coming back, asking me the same question in a different way. Are you sure you never had painting before? You know. And so I don’t know what he wanted me to say. And I think I know what he was saying. He thought perhaps that maybe it was just a little bit. Oh, I shouldn’t say advanced, you know, in watercolor. And so I became that sort of what became attached to me as a watercolorist, you know, Virgie the watercolorist. Unfortunately, I left that before. I feel that I mastered it, you know, and started painting acrylic. I was so aware of the art world and all the other things that were being done. And I didn’t even stay with acrylics very long. I considered oil painting the elite, you know, method of painting because of naturally, the old Masters. And, you know, that’s what it was about. So I took to that. And that’s where I am now, oil painting. So.

Sharon Dean [00:21:18] I want to go back just a little bit. You were talking about the rough times during the Depression and the rough times during, even just prior to the end of World War II. And I wonder what effect the WPA or what opportunities you feel the WPA had on you and your art career.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:21:38] You know, I was a little bit young for that. I remember the WPA period. I remember my father worked for the WPA. But the artists, they were above me in age. So, you know, I didn’t become aware of them until years later, years later. And I thought, what a wonderful opportunity for an artist. Because just think, if that were available, something like, to artists today, they’d all be busy. I don’t know about all of them, but many of them would be. Whereas it’s very difficult to keep things going, showing, getting your work out there and having opportunities, you know, to. It’s for public, you know, viewing. But I thought it was, of course, those times. I remember the times. So, you know, we were not well off by a long shot. That is to say, we stood in lines, you know, for Staples family. But, you know, it’s interesting. That’s as far as I was. We were concerned, the little ones. That’s something we did. It didn’t say poor you know, because we were happy and just unaware of the real position we were in because we always, you know, we were well dressed in school. And did you.

Sharon Dean [00:23:15] How many siblings did you have? How many brothers and sisters?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:23:19] I have one brother and one sister. The sister just about a year and a half above me and the brother about the same under me. But, you know. Yeah, I remember incidentally, I had my brother who was no longer with us. He was very good with his art, but he never went to school. I just remember seeing work that he had done at home after he was married. And I looked at those he had, particularly a still life. It was the most amazing thing. And I thought it was very masterful. And I thought. I did not. I knew that he liked doing art and so forth, but I never knew that he had that much ability. But we were just always trying to get him to do more. And he always I’m going to, I’m going to. But it didn’t happen.

Sharon Dean [00:24:25] Do you remember your first art show? Do you remember your first art show?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:24:29] Ooh boy. Oh, you know, what I do remember is I was about in the third year of painting at the institute and Mr. Tyrrell. John Tyrell. Yeah, John Tyrell. He would- When I first came in this class, about two or three weeks, he’s, you know, he was watching me from the background. And, you know, I was always- It unnerved me. I don’t, you know, the teacher walking around me. And so he was watching me work. And, you know, I almost forgot. What was it you said?

Sharon Dean [00:25:13] You remember your first art show?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:25:15] Oh, yeah, this is me. Will lead up to that. He asked me, did I paint at home on my own? And I said yes. And he said, would you bring some in? I’d like to see it. So I brought two paintings in and he practically danced around them. He was, you know, they excited him because there was something about the paintings that reminded him of his own work. He liked to use glazes. He was known for that in his work. And I had done it, but I didn’t know I was doing. It was glaze called glazing. And he said, if I were you, I would take these over to the Circle Art Gallery. It was in the University Circle, you know, right along the curve there as you go up Mayfield. And he said, as for Mr. And Mrs. Or Mrs. Rappaport, and tell him I sent you. And I very nervously went there and they ended up saying, yes, this is. You know, they like them and they hung them. He said, if they take your work in, then you can consider yourself a professional. They took it in. And one painting I know was eventually sold to somebody and in a downtown, in some office. And, you know, I shouldn’t say this, but they said, I want to tell you something because there was some similarity there in the technique and mine and John’s work. She said, I like yours. And so that’s, you know, if you want to call-

Sharon Dean [00:27:09] You’re very diplomatic.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:27:12] Well, you know, I hate this business of I, I, I- And that’s one thing, you know, an artist finds themselves faced with. And I guess it’s something that you just can’t avoid. So to me, you know, I never gave myself. I never thought I was as good as they said I was. It was just something about it. I knew I had more to learn and I knew there was more to get, you know, and I wanted to. Where they were watching me and making over what I was doing. I shouldn’t say it didn’t mean much to me, anything, but it didn’t say to me that you’re there. It didn’t say that you’re there. So it’s good that those things happen. It was good for me. But I just sort of went along, you know, and on to the next thing, you know. It’s something. I don’t know how I got, like. Came about being like this. When I was about 16 years old, I can just remember, because I had done a lot and all the teachers had done so much for me. And everybody knew there was Virgie the artist, you know, and I was destined to be an artist and hopefully a great artist, you know, somewhat known. But I. When I was about 16, I just remember saying that I wanted to make sure that my work was a high standard before I put anything out there. Because, you know, when people see you painting or whatever, drawing, they’re always saying, oh, you should show this. You should take it here and there. Not me. I just sort of sat back and waited for the right time and waited till I felt that I was ready to do this.

Sharon Dean [00:29:27] What motivated you to think, okay, now’s the time?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:29:30] All right. What motivated me? I, as I got married, had a family, you know, and of course I worked. Most of the jobs, of course, were in studios and things, art studios, designing or illustrating or something. And then I did some teaching, but that I would go to this place. There was this building on 71st and Euclid where a lot of artists were they called the Arts Building. And I had a little space up in there on the second floor. And after work and on weekends I would go there. And so while you’re there, you’re just trying to produce work. And because you’re not really, really steady, steady at it, continue working. You end up with various techniques and different kinds of things. But as I worked, there was an artist in the studio next to me, and he came over one day and he said, look at this stuff you’ve got here. He said, if I were you, I would get these framed. And there was a newly established Watercolor Society. And he said. And entered him in that show. And I did that. And I got a telephone call from him later as they were in session judging. And he called me. He said, Virgie, your painting is up for an award. So that’s really what encouraged me. It inspired me to go on and do more and really exhibit. Because there were a lot of watercolor competitions, and I entered a lot of them and did well.

Sharon Dean [00:31:24] I wanted to go back to something that you said when you were a child. You said you were a dreamer. And I just wonder. It’s like when you hear a taped voice of yourself. I hate the way I sound. And I’m wondering what you were dreaming about or what standard you wanted to aspire to that you looked toward, but that other people saw differently and obviously thought you were already there. So I’m just wondering what your expectations of yourself were and what you were dreaming about.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:31:57] I dreamed about becoming a really good artist. I thought of about, you know, after doing a lot of making a lot of observations and spending a lot of time at the museums. And I loved, you know, I was just. I just fell in love with all the Renaissance painters and, you know, the classical painters, mainly focusing on figures. And I wanted to- I think I started out working with the figure because I was always in these life drawing classes, and I wanted my work to be as nice as those that I, you know, in those paintings that I had seen.

Sharon Dean [00:32:50] I wonder if you could talk about the figures in your drawings, in your paintings, because they’re prominent in all of your paintings. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen just a still life of yours. They seem to be all figural and impressionistic.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:33:04] Well, that’s my theme, the figure. However, I have done a few still lives, some abstract work, but I always seem to go right back to the figure. They seem to inspire me more than anything. And particularly the female figure, because of the qualities that it has. The rhythm of the body as it lies or sits or whatever, you know, the inundating lines and, you know, I guess that’s rhythm and form. I like the voluptuousness of those figures in the classical Renaissance periods. And I seem to naturally. My figures seem to naturally take on that feeling anyway, because I guess this was. My lines were, as teachers would always say, they were very sensitive. And so that’s just the way my figures always appear. So I just enjoy working with a figure, but I didn’t want to end up doing them is totally realistic. You know, I was aware enough at a young age to know that there was something beyond, you know, just painting from what meets the eye. You sort of deviate somewhere with your colors or your style of painting or whatever. So I. But there was always, I tell you the question of what am I to paint? What am I to paint? And being influenced by so many different things, I would work at different. All sorts of things. But I think that’s most almost every artist’s dilemma, you know, finding their own niche. And because that’s what makes you the artist you are and makes them recognize you as an individual artist, you know, but, you know, but it sort of- After years, it really takes years. I came upon it and not intentionally working with the figure, I suppose it all happened or started with a life drawing class. And I drew this figure. The girl was in a very unusual position. And I don’t know how she held it, but it was one of those real quick three minute drawing. And I quickly, you know, sketched her. And after I did that particular image, I said, oh my God, look at this. I love the form. The it was just lines and yet it had so much form. And I said, I have to do something with this. And I thought I was going to do something smaller, maybe in a watercolor or something. And it ended up a large painting, about 45 inches by 46. Because the more I looked at that shape, the more it became something to me. And I took a snap to made a slide of it, the drawing. I visualized the size canvas that I thought it would fit, make an impression of some sort. And when I focused that figure on that canvas, I knew then that I became excited. And I said, this is what I’m going to paint because there is a figure. But I didn’t want the figure to be totally recognizable as a figure. I like minimalism, but I like many other things too. And so there was this shape against its own field, whatever that was to be. And it just came alive. And the more I. When I painted that figure in, I just became so, you know, exuberant because I liked what I saw. So I wanted to be earthy. So I chose these sort of burnt oranges and things. And I also, again, in my mind, wanted to be painterly, even not really flat. So that I did, you know, I had a way, I started out then of calling somebody in the professional person to come in and sort of give critique it so I’d know where I was. And there was this Asian woman that taught art at the Institute at the museum. And I was in one of her classes and I called her and she came over and looked at it and she said, Virgie, she just loved it. So she wanted to see it when I finished it. So then I was satisfied that I had gotten a view opinion of someone, you know, in the profession. So I began to think of it beyond that and some other figures doing the same type of thing. And I would select from my drawings things where the body was contained within itself, not outstretching arms and everything. And so I came up with a series of paintings. And the more I thought about what I was doing, the more I realized it had a theme. They were all women and they were all. It was different. It was me, it was my own. And that’s what the woman had said. You hadn’t viewed figures in that context yet. So. Wow. Finally, I did a series of about. There were about nine or ten paintings, and the first time they were shown was at the Center for Contemporary Art. But at that time I only had about four of them completed. And that’s what hung in the show. They went over remarkably. And when the people in the Center, Marjorie Talalay, and they loved him and, you know, those kind of things kind of tell you you’re okay, you know? You’re doing okay.

Sharon Dean [00:41:10] You know, I thinking while you were talking about landscape and experience and where you’re from, and I’m from Philadelphia originally, so pardon me if I don’t know all of the inside Cleveland things. But it brought up a question which is a lot of people talk about the impact of experience or the influence of experience and landscape on their work. And I wonder if you can talk about the influence of Cleveland, the landscape here and the color and your interactions and what that experience was like and how that comes out in your work.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:41:46] Well, the interaction in Cleveland, I guess- I guess the- When I thought of landscapes, they were more or less sort of made up, you know, and I recalled, of course, I always loved trees [laughs] and I was in watercolors as Mr. Cabana? Mr. Dubanowicks considered me a watercolorist. He says, you’re a colorist rather. You’re a colorist. So I guess it was something about the color I used that he thought, you know, was a good color sense and the things that I did. But I guess that persisted because what you paint, what your color palette is pretty consistent, you know, as is the way you paint or draw.

Sharon Dean [00:43:02] A lot of those earthy colors remind me of the same earthy colors that Paul Travis used to. The same colors as earthy as Paul Travis. Paul Travis used a lot of that.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:43:11] Oh, I know. He was my first teacher. I say the second one as we were drawing. Well, yes, yes. I always remembered his work. And of course, while you were there in this class, you’re pretty influenced with. You know, you’re going to observe something about it. And color certainly was one. But I guess aside from the fact that I’m a Taurus and that’s an earth sign, which is no excuse.

Sharon Dean [00:43:47] I’m a Cancer. I don’t know what my excuse is.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:43:52] I just like the earth and things that were natural. I remember, too, thinking about and reading about certain artists having a certain color palette, and I thought, well, I’m supposed to do that too. Develop a color palette that everybody says, oh, those are her colors. I didn’t think too much about it, but I just went on doing as I did. But Cleveland, Hmm. I. For the most part, it was just the. Just scenes, sort of made up scenes. I don’t know where they came from. But of course, having seen things in the art in the old books a lot, I sort of carried some of that. Those observations with me, you know, to the painting. I wasn’t particularly influenced in what I saw in Cleveland. I don’t think I was more influenced by the artwork on the walls in the institute, all the work the students had done. It meant a lot to me to see that because I wanted to try to live up to some of them, you know, I was so inspired by a lot of what I saw.

Sharon Dean [00:45:33] In terms of your colleagues, who was one of the bigger inspirations for you? Not your teachers, but your colleagues. Peers.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:45:40] Colleagues. I just remember a girl. Remember I mentioned Mr. Tyrell’s class? I liked her work and I watched her. I don’t remember her name, but she had a sort of unusual color palette. I was more influenced by the colors she used to. And I wanted to kind of employ them in my work, which I never really did, you know. So that goes to show you, you know, your things have to come natural to you. You just can’t always do what somebody else does, you know, it’s okay, to take some things that you learn and picked up along the way and use them somehow in your work. But she was the one that- Even though I just simply liked what she did that day, I was working on this figure and Mr. Tyrell stood in the back of the room and he went out and got three other teachers and they stood in the back of the room discussing me and what I was doing. Somehow or another, I was aware because as I looked back, I could see the, you know, glassing work. And they were watching the advancement of the figure. The figure just sort of came out of the canvas and I don’t draw the figure. I never draw the figure before painting it. I just follow almost like the background space.

Sharon Dean [00:47:37] So the background is painted around the space?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:47:40] Yes. I feel that outer edges and the figure just emerges. And so the figure was just really coming right out of the canvas. And she stepped over me, this girl, and said, Virgie, you know, they were discussing your work. She said, if I were you, I would just watch. She pointed out to a couple of fifth year students, just watch how they use their materials. You know, watch the technical aspects of painting. And she said, and you’ll be all right. But that’s what use I got when I went to classes. I don’t care whether it’s Mr. Whoever. It was the second year of painting class, Mr. Miskowski, he came over and it was two weeks of class after, and he said, where are you going? I didn’t know what he meant. And he said, it’s not an insult, but what he was saying. I realized later that he thought I was moving in the right direction with the painting. And he said, you know, he said, what are you doing here? And he said, sometimes he said, if I were you, I would just go over to the art museum and just spend all the time, all the time you can there and just take pen and pencil and observe, observe everything. Brushstrokes. And go alone. He said, go alone. And I did. I did that. So they all seemed to be telling me the same thing, you know, just go home and paint. Because, you know, and, you know, I always took them at their advice because I was eager to learn. I wanted to learn all I could. I just wanted to be a good artist and nothing short of it.

Sharon Dean [00:49:50] Well, I think you accomplished that for sure.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:49:53] I hope I did. But it’s, you know, where I want to be. There’s still room. Sure, there’s room, lots of room for me to grow and improve. I’m a perpetual student. If there was a class Somewhere I want to take that. I think I could pick up some pointers or something. I’m there.

Sharon Dean [00:50:18] What do you think your best accomplishment is as an artist?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:50:23] What is it? I don’t know. Well, at least being recognized as one of Cleveland’s, as they said, nice, you know, best fine arts painters. And the fact that, you know, I was picked up a little bit, you know, I went on, you know, with few to do some pretty nice opportunities, you know, the Akron Art Museum and the- Well, starting with the Contemporary Art Center, really. And over at that beginning, Mather was good to me. That sounded okay. And the Youngstown, United States, you know, and, oh, I could just, I could think of them. I mean, they were there, but I can’t think of everything but these. Oh, and then of course, Ursuline College. That was a wonderful opportunity. Frank Frate was so good to me, you know, that was when I showed there. It was a solo. And normally, typically it’s a woman’s show, annual women’s exhibit, exhibition. And he, when I showed him my work, finally he offered me the opportunity to have a solo, you know, and I was thrilled. And it was a wonderful, wonderful gallery, wonderful space. And I filled that entire gallery with 70-something pieces of work, drawings, prints, sculpture, paintings, of course. So that was an excellent thing for me. And along the way I missed some. I was offered the opportunity to teach in Youngstown. Oh, there was a professor there, he an artist, you know, he taught her. He really wanted me to come there. He says, you can teach drawing or you can teach painting, I don’t care. But you know something? Who would pass up something like that? But look where it is. Commuting, I mean, all that. And I just couldn’t do it. And of course there was another opportunity to teach on that level, and that too was far. What do you do? Good for the resume, but, you know, not so good for your nerves.

Sharon Dean [00:53:21] I know you said that Northeast Ohio, in and of itself, the landscape or interactions didn’t have as much of an influence on you as, say, your own inner thoughts or your own world or perhaps the art museum. But you stayed in Ohio. What made you stay in Cleveland as opposed to moving to Chicago?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:53:45] Being dumb. Just plain old being dumb, you know, I just didn’t venture. And I have a daughter who’s an incredible artist in many different ways. I don’t know if you know Julie or not, but she is a writer and she teaches creative writing, poetry, and she’s even taught a case over here in the English department. She’s NYU and all these places. She lives in New York and she lives here. She has an apartment in New York. Yes. She must have spent, I don’t know how many years long ago when my family were girls from the teaser begging me to come to New York City. She said, well, mom, what do you do? I’m here and I see stuff, and you can do what they, you know. And I like what you do better. And I see a whole lot of stuff here. And she says, you just need to be here. Well, come to think of it, hey, there was an almost. She was always telling me to come to New York to bring your slides once. Well, I took her up on it, and there was this man. I had this gallery that I went to. And she suggested. Well, I went and he. His wife was there in the gallery, and she asked me to stay. She said, can you hang around? She said her husband would be back. And I waited. And he came and he saw the work. And he said, how fast can you paint? He said, you go home and you paint up as fast. He said, me and you can do something. He said, forget Faith. He’s the man, the guy that put Faith Ringo out there. And he said, hey, let’s do it. And, you know, a very most unfortunate thing happened. He owned a lot of real estate. He had property that my daughter at the time made a contract to rent from him. And he had done some things, you know, that weren’t very nice. And she ended up having to file a court thing. And I was there and I witnessed some things. And she wanted me to be her witness. This is the man that’s offering me this opportunity to come to New York City. And there it was, and there it went. And so that’s just very unfortunate, you know. Was that fair to me? No. But anyway, it happened. As they say, what is to be will be. I went in, I guess, for a little bit, it was me not following up a couple of other chances to come there and show my slides and things. But then I was aware of so many people that I knew from here that went to New York and ended up coming back. Nothing, you know, But I didn’t really just stay at that. I thought I would apply my efforts sometime. But there was a little trauma in my life, too, going along. And I would say to the degree that it really sort of kept me from focusing like I should and could have and would have, you know, it’s just sometimes, you know, things get in the way. You’re trying to make progress. And I let it.

Sharon Dean [00:57:54] It’s human. It’s only human that life gets.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:57:59] You know, she still tells me. Would you believe she still tries to get me to come there? And she’s. You know, we just came back from Maine. Are you familiar with Richard Serra?

Sharon Dean [00:58:13] Yes, I am.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [00:58:15] You know, I was. We were his guest in Maine. This guy is awesome. We’re in Maine and around the Bay Area. He has a. I met him in New York. Oh, Julie, she’s out there. She meets all kinds of fantastic people. She called me not too long ago, had me flying to New York to come to his birthday party just to meet him. She says, I want you to meet him. He wants to meet you. She had shown him some of my work, and he wanted to see more. So I went there. And he’s just the most awesome person. So genuine, so nice. And the party was great. His. Oh, way out in some. You know, where all these grand apartments are, is where he lived. And you walk into his suite. Oh, my God, look at this. So then we go to his home in main mansion up on a hill, and we were led to the guest house. When they opened the door, I thought, oh, my God. I thought it was where he lived. And that was only- That was the guest house. One of the guest houses. And there housed all of these. Yes. There were so many books published on him and a lot of other art books. Boy, you’re talking about building up an inspiration. I just wanted to fly right home and paint, you know. But he gave her a $5,000 scholarship last year for her to come there to work in this guest house, and that’s why we went there. She had been there before, and she was just going there, but she wasn’t able to put in the amount of time that she was to put in. So we went back and she did some more work. And next year, he wants to give me the money and so I can come there and just work now if I’m able. Yes.

Sharon Dean [01:00:36] Well, I want to just bring, bring it up to today and ask you what it means for you to participate in a show with your colleagues today in a show of African American art in Cleveland from 1970 to 2005.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:00:52] Well, now you’re saying African American art.

Sharon Dean [01:00:55] There are African American artists.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:00:57] That’s what I prefer because that’s one thing I never liked to do, was just separate myself from any other artists, you know, and in the past, being offered opportunities to shush you every Black History Month or something. Every year, here they come here handing you this bone, you know, tossing you the bone. And that’s supposed to be a big deal. You know, for some, it might have been good. But, you know, I have to say, once you’re out there a while, it is kind of a little tokenism, you know, you want to be considered an artist. And I never thought of myself as a Black artist. I am a Black. I’m an artist, and then I am what I am, and that’s the way I see it. But there was a- You know, I guess I still think it’s not necessary to bunch group people together like that. You’re an artist, should be an artist in your own rights. However, I feel good to be a part of this. You know, you’re still being recognized in some way, a very nice way.

Sharon Dean [01:02:24] Well, we’ll make sure to call it African American artists as opposed to African American art.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:02:28] Oh, I would never- Because it’s so limiting. And, you know, you can- It first started out with- In the days of protest, you know, and you could understand a lot of what was being done. And there was the fists and the Afros and everything. No, not me. And everybody’s telling the same story without this not being individual even. You know, you can tell a story in different ways. And yet I saw such. Among those works, I saw such wonderful things. Good techniques and talent, such ability. And I thought. And some of them you couldn’t talk to, to say that they’re limiting themselves. I paint like I want to paint, you know, paint from the soul. For me, painting from the soul was painting whatever you painted, you know. And then I used to have a thing where they used to say, artists, you had to be political, you had to be social in your work, which I kind of didn’t think was right. You know, I thought again, artists should be able to paint what they want to paint. But then later, I could kind of understand that, you know, to be with the times, you know, if your art allows you to go there, you know, that’s good. But I just. To me, I worked at trying to do something that was me, you know, which, you know, they say you fret so long until maybe, you know, it happens. I was- I liked the opportunity of being included with the other artists before when they produced that book. Yet Still We Rise. It was an opportunity to republish some. And that was good. So this, I think, is- I feel good about it.

Sharon Dean [01:05:00] I wonder if there’s anything else you’d like to add just to kind of sum it all up and sum up your career and where you’re going to go from here. I wonder if there’s Anything you want to add to talk about the future and where you want to go from here, what you want to start working on the future?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:05:21] Well, I always said I wanted to use the figure still and just go somewhere beyond what I had been doing. And above all to show growth in some respect. I don’t think that’s there. I have found that yet. I have a lot of thoughts about. Sometimes I’m inspired by something I see. I run, you know, or I’ll get a spark of an idea, just sort of jump in my head. But being a crazy busy person, you know, that’s one thing that I haven’t done as I should have. You stop and take notes or you forget. And I’ve done that a lot. But I try to keep a little book, a little journal and write things, you know. Now I do. But I can think of. I have some figures, a couple of things that have a theme to it. And one is like I have five or six figures, walking figures and at nude walking figures. And the title of which would be we are not who we Think We Are. You know, I don’t know, it’s kind of a spiritual thing. And that’s one thing I always wanted to conclude in my work. The spiritual.

Sharon Dean [01:07:05] Well, that’s true. I mean, are we who we think we are or are we how other people perceive us?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:07:11] Yes. And the other part of it is, you know, we come here. I guess I’m going into an area now that you may not expect. But we’re not here just once, you know, we’re here over and over again, you know, which is what I mean. And you come back and we are composite of what we were before and all the other lives. And, you know, you come your life and death and through that experience, who are you really? You know, you’re that soul. You’re not that individual. All those individuals that you were, you’re the same soul. And it was in that vein that I was thinking.

Sharon Dean [01:08:02] Very nice way to sum it up. So do you feel then that your figures represent the souls or the individuals? If they’re self.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:08:09] I guess. But had I actually consciously thought about that? You know, I thought of. I have to be. If I be honest and say I hadn’t ever really thought of the figures being. All of them being my soul?

Sharon Dean [01:08:32] Well, not your- But just souls out there. Souls of what you observe.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:08:37] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes. I very much am with the spiritual thing. And it means a lot.

Sharon Dean [01:08:48] Maybe that’s where the self containment. Maybe that’s what I see that self Containment, Possibly, yes.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:08:55] Because you know, I feel in a sense very reverent to that thought. And it’s a God given thing, you know, art. Absolutely. That’s where it all comes from, all creativity. And I recognize that and I’m grateful for it, every single moment of it.

Sharon Dean [01:09:25] Well, it’s been a pleasure to interview you and to talk with you and to get to know you.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:09:29] So thank you so much for doing this. Thank you. I enjoyed. Was very. I appreciate this. Thank you.

Sharon Dean [01:09:38] And I think that we’ll have a lot to use for the catalog and the Euclid Corridor project.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:09:44] I hope so.

Sharon Dean [01:09:46] Thank you, Aaron. Well, have some water, please.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:09:51] Oh yes, and a little of my tongue. I tempted to reach for it so many times, but-

Sharon Dean [01:09:56] Well, you’re allowed to.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:09:57] Uh huh. Grandfather, I have some ideas about where they came from. You know, things that you pick up in the family.

Sharon Dean [01:10:10] Well, you know, with our family, who knows, Because I’m only second generation here and before that my ancestors were all from Russia, but probably only a couple generations. And before that, my guess is they’re all from the Middle east. So who knows? Who knows. It’s always interesting to me to try and figure out genealogy because, because records are so easily lost and unless your family is in one place for a long time, it’s hard to trace the trajectory of where you come from.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:10:48] And yet some people managed to pull back. They find out so much, you know, what they did and so much. And you have different family backgrounds. You know, it’s not just because my father, my grandfather, they were free people. They owned property, they owned two houses, they had. The family was large. They were in North Carolina and they were part of them. His wife was Indian.

Sharon Dean [01:11:31] American Indian.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:11:32] American Indian. So. But I don’t necessarily.

Sharon Dean [01:11:35] I was wondering where your influences, your indigenous influences. It’s Navajo.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:11:40] Thank you.

Sharon Dean [01:11:40] Yeah, I love it.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:11:42] And so was my mother’s mother.

Sharon Dean [01:11:46] Were Navajo? 

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:11:47] They were all Black- But it’s interesting. Both sides were Blackfoot and Cherokee.

Sharon Dean [01:11:53] Because a lot of the- Well, the Cherokee and the Choctaw took in slaves when they ran away.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:12:01] That’s true.

Sharon Dean [01:12:02] And you actually- But what people don’t really talk about is that the Cherokee and the Choctaw both had slaves and you earned your way out of it. I teach at Case Western. I teach Native American Studies.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:12:16] Mm hm. African American Studies?

Sharon Dean [01:12:19] Native American Studies.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:12:20] Native American. Uh huh. There was a lot to pick up from this area, wasn’t it?

Sharon Dean [01:12:26] Yes, there was. So anyway, want to go next door and say hi to Bill?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:12:33] Yes. I had one thing I wanted to mention, you know, they want works going way back as far as you can. And those were the things that were stolen from the studio. And it hurts my daughter Julie so much because that’s important. It’s your archives.

Sharon Dean [01:13:00] Never found it, huh?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:13:01] And some of the things. There’s two of them that I- One that I did in Moskowski’s class, and I finished it at home. And the other one in Tyrell’s class when it was a very first figure that we drew from. And he said, you can use that for a painting. It was a woman from here up, and she had a veil on. And he said, you should use that for a painting.

Sharon Dean [01:13:32] Never found it, huh? It’s too bad.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:13:36] Well, I went away and I asked my husband, I said, please go to the studio and pick up those things the next day. And he didn’t. He didn’t. And so there were about five of them and a full torso of a woman sculptured. Well.

Sharon Dean [01:14:04] So do you know what works you’re going to loan for the show?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:14:07] I have. I’ve thought and thought and looked, and all I can do is go back to the oldness of what I had.

Sharon Dean [01:14:14] All right, well, we’ll talk to Bill about that. When were these things taken? When were these paintings taken?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:14:22] About in early ’70s, because that’s when I was in the studio. But there’s one that’s a little bit before that that I have.

Sharon Dean [01:14:36] Well, they should have worked it at home. So he should have something.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:14:41] And maybe something else that I would have that’s old. It’s up. Way up in the eastern part of the country. You know, it’s somebody. A man bought it. He liked it, and he bought it. I wished I had it. It’s one of my favorite ones. And I- He shipped it here for me. Wants to use- And I couldn’t ask him to do that again. Nope.

Sharon Dean [01:15:09] Well, let me see if I can get Bill. I’ll be right back. 

Erin Bell [01:15:16] I had actually stopped recording at some point because I thought we were done. 

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:15:20] Oh, you did? 

Erin Bell [01:15:22] Yeah, but I turned it back on so it’s actually still on now.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:15:26] Uh huh. Oh, Bill! My gosh. 

William Busta [01:15:32] How are you? 

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:15:33] [laughs] Bill, I’m fine.

William Busta [01:15:37] Good, Good. You have a nice conversation?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:15:39] I think I was gonna say, I did what?

William Busta [01:15:41] You have a nice conversation with Sharon?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:15:43] Was it nice?

Sharon Dean [01:15:44] I think it was wonderful.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:15:45] I enjoyed it. 

Erin Bell [01:15:47] I think it was great.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:15:50] I enjoyed it. It was fun.

Sharon Dean [01:15:51] It was fun.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:15:51] Makes you think and dig back.

Sharon Dean [01:15:55] Well, Virgie was just talking about what she was going to loan to the show, and she was saying that four or five of her works or oldest works were stolen out of her studio in the early 1970s, but she’s thinking about what else she wants to learn. I told her to talk about it.

William Busta [01:16:12] Let’s do one of those large figural paintings that you did about 15 years ago. Those abstract shapes on the background?

Sharon Dean [01:16:22] That’s what I was thinking, too.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:16:23] Really?

Sharon Dean [01:16:23] Those are wonderful.

William Busta [01:16:24] Yeah.

Sharon Dean [01:16:26] Especially when you talked about how the figures emerge, because you paint the space.

William Busta [01:16:31] Like the pieces you showed at the Akron Art Museum show. And we could also- Do you have any of those sculptures that went with that? Because we could do a painting, and we could do one of the sculptures. We could do a painting on one of those sculptures that you had at Akron- Remember, you had those bronzes as well? So we could do one of each.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:16:55] So you just want two works?

William Busta [01:16:56] Yep. There’s going to be 28 people in the show. It’s not that big a gallery.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:17:00] Whoa. All right. I had a couple of things that were- [crosstalk]

William Busta [01:17:06] I would be happy to come over and take a look.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:17:09] Okay. Okay.

Sharon Dean [01:17:11] Can I come? I haven’t been.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:17:12] Sure.

William Busta [01:17:13] Sure, sure. We’ll work that out.

Sharon Dean [01:17:15] All right.

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:17:15] Welcome.

Sharon Dean [01:17:16] Can I give you a hug?

Virgie Patton-Ezelle [01:17:18] Please. Love that too. Love your colors together. 

Sharon Dean [01:17:21] Thank you. Thank you. Really nice to- [recording ends]

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