In this 2006 interview, Cleveland architect and Shaker Heights native Bill Morris discusses the evolution of Cleveland, particularly Euclid Avenue, throughout the twentieth-century from an urban development perspective. He shares childhood memories of Euclid Avenue and laments the decline of Euclid Avenue's Millionaires Row and downtown movie theaters. Morris also points to missed opportunities such as the 1948 Downtown Subway Plan and mistakes like the Erieview Project, while offering suggestions for improvements (particularly on the city's lakefront) that could attract more tourists and permanent residents. Throughout, Morris talks about the broader topics of architecture and urban design, discussing his education at Auburn and Cornell, the importance of his early work as a building contractor, and what he sees as the value of an architectural education.


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Morris, Bill (interviewee)


Gibans, Nina (interviewer); Yanoshik-Wing, Emma (participant)


American Institute of Architects



Document Type

Oral History


94 minutes


Transcription sponsored by Leonard & Betty Boesger

Nina Gibans [00:00:00] All right. So, basically we're going to talk about your career, your background, Euclid Avenue.

William Morris [00:00:09] I thought we were talking about Euclid Avenue.

Nina Gibans [00:00:11] We... we will be. But it's important. You did get my material, right?

William Morris [00:00:15] Yes.

Nina Gibans [00:00:15] Okay. Very important to talk about your background because I want to ask you some things that I know along the way. So the first thing we need to do is to say that I'm Nina Gibans and this is Bill Morris.

William Morris [00:00:30] Right.

Nina Gibans [00:00:35] So you grew up in Shaker Heights, right?

William Morris [00:00:38] Yes.

Nina Gibans [00:00:40] So talk about how that might have influenced anything you are going to talk about.

William Morris [00:00:48] Well, it seems like Shaker Heights was the center of the earth as far as I could see.

Nina Gibans [00:00:59] So when did you expand beyond that center? [laughs]

William Morris [00:01:02] Finally, I went away to college. [laughs] And that had a big effect.

Nina Gibans [00:01:13] All right. And where did you go and who made any impact on you?

William Morris [00:01:20] I went to Cornell, but I started the architecture career at Auburn University in Alabama because when I graduated from high school, the next day, I was in the Navy.

Nina Gibans [00:01:40] I'd forgotten that.

William Morris [00:01:41] Yeah, I mean, the Navy had a program where, at that time in 1945, this was towards the end of the war, you were being... [beeping sound in background] If you turned 18 and you were in high school, they drafted you right out of high school and you didn't finish high school. But the Navy had a program where if you took a test and could pass it, they tracked you into a program for... as a radar technician, and sent you off to school and let you finish high school because they were looking for highly technical, you know, people they could train technically and the best way to do it was leaving high school, so that they could kind of deal with the school that they were going to send you to as to become this radar technician.

Nina Gibans [00:02:45] All right.

William Morris [00:02:46] And while in the boot camp or basic training, essentially, they gave everybody another test. And if you wanted to become an officer, that test program grew into a full track for becoming an officer because the Navy during the war, the Second World War, was not able to promote people from the ranks into... So they could move up as officers. It was... When the Navy was formed, Congress said naval officers had to have a college degree, period. And this was John Adams for the Navy, really. And so towards the end of the war, there was so much dissent from people who wanted to move up that they gave everybody in the Navy essentially an S.A.T. test. Really, this is about what it amounted to. And anybody who could pass it, they sent 'em to college because they only had one place where you could get a college degree to go into the Navy, which was Annapolis, period. And they opened up all the land grant colleges in the country to train naval officers.

Nina Gibans [00:04:29] Okay. So we're identifying that year as?

William Morris [00:04:31] 1945.

Nina Gibans [00:04:31] Yes.

Emma Yanoshik-Wing [00:04:33] I'm going to pause for just one second.

William Morris [00:04:36] But this is a long, shaggy dog story. [laughs]

Nina Gibans [00:04:40] Yeah, well, it's interesting, though.

Emma Yanoshik-Wing [00:04:42] I've restarted. Thank you.

Nina Gibans [00:04:44] All right, so now we're at...

William Morris [00:04:46] So, I took this test, and when I came back from leave, instead of sending me down to become a radar technician, they decided I was going to become an officer. So they put me on a train and sent me to Alabama and... To the Alabama Polytechnic Institute, which has now become Auburn University because it's in Auburn, Alabama, which was a town of maybe 5,000 people. And maybe 5,000 people in the university. And they said the first day, take any course you want. So I signed up for an architectural degree and put in a year of architecture there, and then they discharged me from the Navy because the war was over. And before that, or before... While I was still in 11th grade, I applied for Cornell. And it was interesting. I went up there for an interview and there were no men in the college at that time. It was all women, 100%, and it's probably 50% now. And when I got there in 1946, there were like two women in my class. They went right back to their, kind of, this is a program for men only. Of course, the two women were better than any of them who were in the class. [laughs]

Nina Gibans [00:06:37] That's fascinating. Okay. So, Cornell, you went through Cornell then?

William Morris [00:06:42] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:06:43] And the Cornell architecture?

William Morris [00:06:44] Yeah, the architectural school at Cornell.

Nina Gibans [00:06:47] And you're talking about undergrad though....

William Morris [00:06:51] Undergrad.

Nina Gibans [00:06:51] First and then...

William Morris [00:06:52] It was a five-year program.

Nina Gibans [00:06:54] Mm hmm.

William Morris [00:06:55] And I was anxious to get out of school. [laughs] I was sick of school by that time.

Nina Gibans [00:07:03] But were there are some people that influenced you at that time, in the architecture area?

William Morris [00:07:08] Not at the school. It was interesting because Auburn—which was a state school and the only state, and the only architectural school in the state of Alabama—was generously supported by the state of Alabama because they were training the only architects that would be available for Alabama for the next fifty years. And they just poured money into the school and they had the best people. The dean of the school, after I left, became head of University of Illinois, which was the largest architectural school in the country.

Nina Gibans [00:07:47] Right.

William Morris [00:07:48] The one in Champaign-Urbana.

Nina Gibans [00:07:50] Right.

William Morris [00:07:51] And the teacher, the best teachers that I had, one became head of the University of Oregon architectural school.

Nina Gibans [00:08:01] Are these names we'd all recognize?

William Morris [00:08:03] I can't even remember their names.

Nina Gibans [00:08:05] I see. Okay. All right.

William Morris [00:08:05] It's been 55 years now. [laughs]

Nina Gibans [00:08:08] Yes, yes. But they... Okay. So, we'll accept that.

William Morris [00:08:12] They were... It was interesting because the teachers were wonderful. And the student body, because it was a state school in Alabama, they had to take everybody who came out of an Alabama high school and nobody was prepared for college. I mean it. I just sailed through it with all eyes.

Nina Gibans [00:08:35] Shaker Heights. [laughs] That is funny.

William Morris [00:08:36] Shaker Heights was a prep school, essentially, Shaker Heights High School. And I said to myself, there's something wrong here because I'd never gotten an A in my life in high school, but I just sailed through it. Then I got to Cornell and the teachers were terrible, but the student body was incredible. You know, they attracted the best people from all over the country, and in an architectural studio that's what you want. You want the best students because you never know how good you are until you're up against that kind of competition. So there it was, an Ivy League school, and the one good thing about it is that unlike Yale, Harvard, and places like that, they employed no one who had a name. What they had was your fourth year, you had visiting critics.

Nina Gibans [00:09:47] Mm hmm.

William Morris [00:09:47] And they brought in people from, well, I had Philip Johnson for a whole semester then as a critic.

Nina Gibans [00:09:54] And who else?

William Morris [00:09:58] There was a guy from Florida who was doing all these kind of big buildings that they're tearing down now. You know, the Fontainebleau...

Nina Gibans [00:10:12] Yes.

William Morris [00:10:13] And places like that.

Nina Gibans [00:10:14] The one they just died.

William Morris [00:10:15] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:10:16] The man that... Okay.

William Morris [00:10:18] And he was very good. But they brought in people from all over the country who were practicing architects, who did have names and... Philip.... Well, I had Philip Johnson, the next semester class had Buckminster Fuller, and these people were available because Ithaca is such an isolated place. There's, there's nothing to do but sit around and talk, you know? [laughs]

Nina Gibans [00:10:55] Right.

William Morris [00:10:56] You know, it's not like going to school in New York City or someplace like that.

Nina Gibans [00:10:58] Right. All right. So you got back to Cleveland and it's about 1949?

William Morris [00:11:06] No. Well, it would have been, but. I figured since I was in such a... They had electives that you could take at school, but essentially all your courses were either in the Architecture school or in the Fine Arts department. So I kind of dropped the architectural program for a year. And because they had a very good, you know, liberal arts college, and took a bunch of English courses and philosophy courses and things like that that I wouldn't have gotten as electives. And that was the only way to really take advantage of the university.

Nina Gibans [00:11:54] So we're up to 1950.

William Morris [00:11:56] So we're up to 1950, about.

Nina Gibans [00:12:03] Okay. So you come back to Cleveland.

William Morris [00:12:05] No.

Nina Gibans [00:12:06] You don't?

William Morris [00:12:07] Meanwhile, back at the ranch, [laughs] my father got a job as the Deputy Chief of Industry for the Marshall Plan in Italy.

Nina Gibans [00:12:19] Right.

William Morris [00:12:20] And they moved to Italy for three years. And I went over to visit them in 1951 for the summer and just stayed for a year and a half.

Nina Gibans [00:12:32] The Academy of Rome or...

William Morris [00:12:34] Well, yeah, I had the it was Morris Bright, I called it rather than a Fulbright. I was there in, living in Rome for a year and a half and traveling all over Europe. It was, you know, very nice. And I enrolled at the University of Rome for a semester course with a man named [Pier Luigi] Nervi, who really was internationally famous.

Nina Gibans [00:13:12] As a designer and architect, right?

William Morris [00:13:15] He was actually an engineer.

Nina Gibans [00:13:17] Ah.

William Morris [00:13:19] But he was the most brilliant engineer I'd ever come across.

Nina Gibans [00:13:26] So then your family came back?

William Morris [00:13:28] My family came back.

Nina Gibans [00:13:29] And you came back...

William Morris [00:13:30] Finally, I completed the year... I had one semester to do at Cornell yet for my thesis. And I completed that. I did the design of a kibbutz in Israel and won a big medal for it that gets hung around my neck if I go back to....

Nina Gibans [00:13:55] Right.

William Morris [00:13:56] Reunions and things. [laughs]

Nina Gibans [00:13:57] [Laughs] All right.

William Morris [00:14:00] And... I started, I was interested in housing. And no architects were doing any houses, in 1953, this was, by that time. And so I got a job with a contractor doing carpentry, painting, electrical work and, you know, heating, plumbing, the whole thing. This was a kind of 19th century contractor. Here's more of the shaggy dog story. He was from Pittsburgh. James C. [00:14:54]Fanistock [0.0s] was his name.

Nina Gibans [00:14:54] Mm hmm.

William Morris [00:14:57] And he came to Cleveland because his sister, who was married to somebody who worked for the post office, the guy working for the post office transferred to Cleveland and he came to build her a house, and he bought her some property out in Pepper Pike. And Pepper Pike gave him such a hard time on the design of the house. He said, Screw this, and bought her some property in what is now Warrensville Heights, which was then in the country, and designed her something there. And they gave him a hard time too, you know, you don't have enough muntins in the windows. The same thing that Shaker's been doing for the last fifty years. So he bought our property, sold that and bought our property in Parma. Gorgeous piece of property on Ridgewood Drive, which was at that time the end of the streetcar line that went out Pearl Road. And his sister... He built his sister a house there. He built himself a house there. And he built a house for sale. And I got to him when he was building the house for sale and worked for him for two or three years on that and other projects. And he was a brilliant guy. First week I worked for him, we just talked about architecture for, like, four days straight. [laughs] And then he kept telling me, well, you don't really aspire to be a contractor, and... But he was willing to teach me all the trades, which he knew perfectly.

Nina Gibans [00:17:04] Oh, wow. Mm hmm.

William Morris [00:17:05] And so that by the time I started working in an architectural office, I couldn't draw anything, but I knew how everything went together because I had done it. So the drawing I picked up like that, you know? And I was the only person in the office who could actually go out and get bids from contractors and negotiate the costs and things like that.

Nina Gibans [00:17:40] Which office was this?

William Morris [00:17:42] Bruce Huston in Willoughby. Actually, it was Huston [00:17:49]Deacon [0.0s] at that time, and I worked in a Painesville office. That was quite a commute from South Euclid because there were no freeways.

Nina Gibans [00:18:04] And so how did you get there?

William Morris [00:18:08] More of the shaggy dog story.

Nina Gibans [00:18:10] Oh. Can we condense the shag? [laughs]

William Morris [00:18:14] Yeah, we can condense the shag. I married a girl from Germany. We went to visit her family and I bought a car there, a French Delahaye, which is the French Rolls-Royce, the one that Charles de Gaulle rode around in, you know, convertible. I paid $300 for it. [laughs]

Nina Gibans [00:18:45] That's how you got there?

William Morris [00:18:47] And that's how. I drove that car from South Euclid to Painesville and back every day. It was not a car I should have been driving that way. I mean, it was... It was a, you know, a gorgeous convertible, you know, really beautiful.

Nina Gibans [00:19:11] Why don't I remember this car? Is this 1953?

William Morris [00:19:15] Oh, this is probably '56 by now.

Nina Gibans [00:19:19] '56!

William Morris [00:19:19] Well, I had been working for this contractor for...

Nina Gibans [00:19:21] Right, right, okay.

William Morris [00:19:21] A couple, good many years.

Nina Gibans [00:19:24] So....

William Morris [00:19:24] And one year of that three years we built my parents' house.

Nina Gibans [00:19:31] Your parents' house on North Park.

William Morris [00:19:32] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:19:34] So that's your first house?

William Morris [00:19:36] The first house in Cleveland.

Nina Gibans [00:19:39] Okay. So housing has been your main, your main...

William Morris [00:19:43] It's all I've been interested.

Nina Gibans [00:19:44] Focus, since day one, really.

William Morris [00:19:47] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:19:48] I want to explore some things with you, though, that have to do with things that you've mentioned along the way in other conversations. One is that you brought some architects to Cleveland to work with you who flourished.

William Morris [00:20:09] A lot of 'em.

Nina Gibans [00:20:10] Lot of 'em. So I need to know who they were.

William Morris [00:20:16] Paul Westlake.

Nina Gibans [00:20:17] Yes, Paul... There's no doubt about Paul's talent nationally, and...

William Morris [00:20:23] He was a marvelous kid. I mean, I interviewed him. He interviewed Jack Kelly, with Jack Kelly first. Kelly didn't have a place for him at the time. But Kelly said him to me. I had worked for Kelly for a year.

Nina Gibans [00:20:40] You worked for Jack Kelly for a year?

William Morris [00:20:43] Mm hmm. After I worked for Huston & [00:20:44]Deacon. [0.0s] And in the interview, you know, he had... He had a bachelor's degree, the dual degree from the University of Pennsylvania, Wharton and Architecture. He started work at the University of Pennsylvania as an accounting major. And... but he could draw. And he had an uncle in Boston named Westlake, who essentially was the designer of this, the building with sloped roof at the corner of Saint Clair and Ninth Street. It's a nice building. It's one of the few good buildings downtown that were done in the '80s or '90s, '70s.

Nina Gibans [00:21:38] Yeah, you mean Fleischman?

William Morris [00:21:39] No.

Nina Gibans [00:21:39] No?

William Morris [00:21:39] Not Fleischman.

Nina Gibans [00:21:42] Not Fleishman?

William Morris [00:21:42] This was the guy from... It was the Blue Cross building, originally, started as that, but Blue Cross stayed where they were, I think.

Nina Gibans [00:21:50] Right. Okay.

William Morris [00:21:52] And. It's the one with the...

Nina Gibans [00:21:57] I know which one.

William Morris [00:21:57] Housing roof. [laughs]

Nina Gibans [00:22:00] And that was Paul's first building?

William Morris [00:22:02] No, that was Paul Westlake's uncle. His uncle was an architect.

Nina Gibans [00:22:06] I see.

William Morris [00:22:07] And he designed that building.

Nina Gibans [00:22:08] I see.

William Morris [00:22:10] And Paul then went to Harvard for graduate school. And I said to him, Well, you'll get over that. [laughs] [phone rings]

Emma Yanoshik-Wing [00:22:24] Years ago. Okay.

Nina Gibans [00:22:29] So, Westlake came to Cleveland because of you but because of his uncle?

William Morris [00:22:36] No, he came to Cleveland because he was from Warren.

Nina Gibans [00:22:41] Uh huh.

William Morris [00:22:43] And it was kind of coming home. I mean, there wasn't much for him to do in Warren with all these degrees, you know?

Nina Gibans [00:22:52] Right. Right.

William Morris [00:22:54] And so he came to Cleveland because Kelly was a graduate of Harvard also.

Nina Gibans [00:23:04] This is Jack Kelly.

William Morris [00:23:05] Jack Kelly. And Mr.—what's his face?—Gropius suggested to Paul that he interview with... Paul was went back to Philadelphia and was working for... God, I can't remember the names of these architects, but somebody who was famous there.

Nina Gibans [00:23:29] Venturi?

William Morris [00:23:30] No. Somebody who was doing housing in their kind of enormous program of renewing.

Nina Gibans [00:23:41] Renewal. Bacon?

William Morris [00:23:43] Yeah, well, not Bacon's office now...

Nina Gibans [00:23:45] But... Oh.

William Morris [00:23:46] But whoever Bacon hired to do, actually, the architect to do the housing now. So he was doing all these kind of rowhouses, new rowhouses and things like that. So he came back to interview with Kelly. Kelly didn't have the work for him at the time, so he interviewed with me and I had loads of work back in those good old days when you didn't need to do anything.... People just came over the transom.

Nina Gibans [00:24:21] Isn't that nice? [laughs]

William Morris [00:24:24] That's right. I had no marketing program whatsoever.

Nina Gibans [00:24:28] It's amazing.

William Morris [00:24:29] Yeah. It was just a different city then.

Nina Gibans [00:24:33] So Paul was with you how long?

William Morris [00:24:37] Two or three years.

Nina Gibans [00:24:37] And then went to West... To van Dijk?

William Morris [00:24:41] Yeah. I suggested he go down to interview with van Dijk because I had run out of work, so I had to let him go, which I hated to do.

Nina Gibans [00:24:53] So then there's Bill Koster.

William Morris [00:24:55] Bill Koster. Yeah. I met him when I was working out in Painesville because he had gone to school with all the people in that office. Painesville seemed to be... Painesville and Mentor seemed to be a straight ride from there to the University of Cincinnati, which is where Bill Koster went and where all those people who were working in that office were from. And when I started my own office, which was right after I left Jack Kelly's, it was really a one-man office just like it is now. [laughs] And I needed help to do working drawings because there was just, it was too hard to kind of design everything, get the jobs, meet with the clients, and do all the supervision that's necessary on these complicated buildings that the contractors have never seen anything like that before. And... So, I didn't want to rob the office from Painesville of people, so I asked them if they knew anybody. And they suggested Koster. Poor Koster. He was living in Rocky River. And he did like five houses in a row where the clients didn't pay him. So he was desperate for work that would pay him something. He was married by this time.

Nina Gibans [00:26:55] Wow. The Bodner house, by the way, is beautiful.

William Morris [00:27:02] Oh, Koster did fantastic work. He did [00:27:05]Maisel's [0.0s] working drawings, I think. Part of them anyhow. And when you see those drawings, you'll see.

Nina Gibans [00:27:14] Are there any other architects?

William Morris [00:27:16] Yeah. Bruce Lynch. He grew up in Orange or Moreland Hills out there in that area and went to the University of Illinois, had wanted to work for me since he was in high school, and which I didn't find out until he came in for an interview after he finished college and I hired him right away.

Nina Gibans [00:27:52] Where was the location of your first office?

William Morris [00:27:56] In an old house across the street from the Tower East on Chagrin Boulevard. That part of Shaker Heights was originally called Eastview. There are a group of, you know, old... There's some of those houses are still there on Chagrin Boulevard.

Nina Gibans [00:28:16] Near the Gropius building?

William Morris [00:28:18] Yeah. Well, there and there are two little streets across the street from that, Helen and...

Nina Gibans [00:28:27] Where... Near the golf course?

William Morris [00:28:28] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:28:30] Bill. Downtown Cleveland, though.

William Morris [00:28:32] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:28:33] We've gotta get there with this interview.

William Morris [00:28:34] [Laughs]

Nina Gibans [00:28:38] Certainly you have of memories of Euclid Avenue.

William Morris [00:28:40] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:28:41] So let's go to the buildings that meant the most to you or have meant the most to you, or what are the ones you would point out?

William Morris [00:28:53] Most of them are gone. [laughs]

Nina Gibans [00:28:55] Okay, well, let's talk about that.

William Morris [00:28:59] Cleveland has a kind of mentality that the faster they can rip down the good buildings, the better for the city it will be.

Nina Gibans [00:29:06] All right. So what are those good buildings that they tore down?

William Morris [00:29:10] Well, the first one I can think of was off Euclid Avenue. It was a Baptist church on 18th Street. Gorgeous kind of Arts and Crafts church, really phenomenal building.

Nina Gibans [00:29:31] So it's right around the corner from the Hermit Club?

William Morris [00:29:35] Yeah, it's between Chester and Euclld just buried in there when Euclid was kind of all residential, you know, it was...

Nina Gibans [00:29:45] Right.

William Morris [00:29:45] The neighborhood church. And I suspect that was probably funded by the Rockefellers, who were Baptist. And that's why all that Rockefeller money went to the University of Chicago, which was a Baptist institution, and did not go to Western Reserve, which was not a Baptist institution.

Nina Gibans [00:30:07] Okay. But what are some other buildings?

William Morris [00:30:11] Okay. Well, starting from 21st Street, it was all houses. When I was in the 11th grade, I took a course at John Huntington Polytechnic Institute, which was in a gigantic old Euclid Avenue mansion. And it was taught by Ceruti.

Nina Gibans [00:30:44] Joe Ceruti?

William Morris [00:30:45] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:30:47] Who built this apartment.

William Morris [00:30:48] Yeah. Right. It was a course in architectural lettering, you know? Well, I figured it was something I should learn before I went to college. [laughs] And it was at night. And I had to hop on the rapid and go downtown and walk up to... It was about at maybe 25th. It was in the area where CSU is now, and CSU kept one of the buildings, the Hanna Mansion. I don't know what they use it for now. For a while it was a...

[00:31:28] The convocation and the center for conferences and...

William Morris [00:31:32] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:31:33] The Mather Mansion?

Emma Yanoshik-Wing [00:31:34] Alumni and stuff like that, I think.

William Morris [00:31:36] Yeah.

Nina Gibans [00:31:37] Alumni use it.

William Morris [00:31:38] Yeah, it was the Mather Mansion.

Nina Gibans [00:31:39] And then about 1990, is it, the Junior League... No, earlier than that. The Junior League was behind the renovation, which I think meant I get... It's beautifully restored.

William Morris [00:31:54] Yeah. Very, very nicely restored.

Nina Gibans [00:31:57] Yeah.

William Morris [00:31:57] But they tore down everything else.

Nina Gibans [00:32:00] I know.

William Morris [00:32:01] And it's interesting because not all cities have behaved like Cleveland. Rochester, which is a very similar city, has a main drag of phenomenal houses, and they've kept every one. And of course, it's in the east. And faces, really faces more east than Cleveland does. And with all the rehabbing that was going on in large eastern cities, Rochester became part of that.

Nina Gibans [00:32:38] Why do you think Cleveland tore them all down?

William Morris [00:32:42] Because everybody had moved out of them here. When I... When I was a child and we'd go down Euclid Avenue, they were all used car lots. All those big front lawns. Well, the Mather Mansion still has, you know, space to Euclid Avenue, which was essentially... Those are all used car lots, and the houses were where the used car lots had their so-called offices and you could see it. It was criminal. Everybody moved out and that's when they built Fairmount Boulevard and places like that and Shaker Heights and South Park, North Park, those streets. They had to get out of the city because the air pollution was so bad.

Nina Gibans [00:33:42] That's right.

William Morris [00:33:43] And...

Nina Gibans [00:33:44] So but this is earlier.

William Morris [00:33:46] This is earlier. But that's... That left a vacuum.

Nina Gibans [00:33:50] Mm hmm.

William Morris [00:33:50] Nobody wanted to move into these buildings, and that's when they just went in the used car lots. And that's what's eventually going to happen to places like Solon and Gates Mills, wh

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