Abstract
Artist Cushmere Bell describes his life and career. Raised in Cleveland, Bell knew he wanted to be an artist at an early age. An early interest in comics and a "part-time job" of drawing commissioned sports scenes from the covers of Sports Illustrated magazine for classmates typified his earliest artistic activities. After "discovering Impressionism in 12th grade," Cushmere decided to pursue a career in painting. Encouraged by teachers at Shaker Heights High School, Bell attended the Cleveland Institute of Art, graduating with a major in photography and a minor in painting. The artist discusses his experiences as a student, his personal challenges growing into adulthood, and formative moments and people in his life. He also describes his own work and influences in some detail, relating his artistic role as "a stenographer recording in hieroglyphics... [and] relics of the times." Additional subjects include graffiti in Cleveland, WRUW 91.1 (Case Western Reserve University radio station), the artist's personal mentors, and the creative process.
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Interviewee
Bell, Cushmere (interviewee)
Interviewer
Thurmer, Robert (interviewer)
Project
Cleveland Artists Foundation
Date
12-24-2008
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
64 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Cushmere Bell Interview, 24 December 2008" (2008). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 901027.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/222
Transcript
Cushmere Bell [00:00:00] Which is getting. You know, when I first. When I graduated from high school, I always wanted to be a painter. I mean, I went to CIA and I was intent on being a painter. I mean, photography kind of kind of happened around the middle of the third year when, I don’t know, my ideas kind of like related more to photography was, as far as the thought process was concerned. And so. So that’s pretty much it. You know, today I’m just kind of hoping that was my main tent. Probably was in the past five years. I live like right down the street. Like, where is it? Oh yeah, I don’t know if you heard of the Tower Press building.
Robert Thurmer [00:00:38] Oh yeah, yeah.
Cushmere Bell [00:00:39] I’ve been there- I mean, just when the purpose of kind of bringing these paintings or collages to a level of where my photography was when I. You can kind of say where I left off a bit and just to hope that I can bring it back up again. [laughs] So I don’t know, I just kind of assumed to me, like, God, things wouldn’t begin to happen if I were to become somewhat successful or something, or something, would begin. Start to begin. As far as a career, I assume no, you know, you’d probably have to wait till 4 or something like that. Because what I’m doing is kind of weird. Maybe. But anyway, I’m kind of cool today, you know, on this funky job and things are kind of slow and then I just have to be a little bit patient about things. But I’m still feeding up photography. Like I’ve been really getting into film more so than when I was in school. It’s kind of weird because when I graduated from CIA, one of the main reasons why I was kind of slow about what I wanted to do because I really wanted to go into film because I thought my photography lent itself to filmmaking because of the way I approach things. But at that time I didn’t know too much about filmmaking. So I kind of keep feeding myself with. With that primarily today. And so, I don’t know, I feel I can occasionally I feel I can pick it up and just run with it when the time comes. But I don’t know, maybe right now, I don’t know, I still feel like I’m emerging from a limbo. So I guess what they would call. I’ve been learning things that I didn’t learn in school, so to speak. But you know, I’m just keep doing it. But I mean, I would like to do more eventually, you know, as far as work, as far as production. But I think I said Something mentally I had to understand before that could happen. It’s a weird schedule. It’s an interesting answer.
Robert Thurmer [00:02:59] Are we rolling?
Cushmere Bell [00:03:00] Yeah. Yeah.
Erin Bell [00:03:00] I started rolling about three minutes ago.
Cushmere Bell [00:03:02] Just because we’re saying some good stuff.
Robert Thurmer [00:03:04] Sounds good.
Erin Bell [00:03:06] Go ahead and introduce the interview where we’re at the date.
Robert Thurmer [00:03:11] Okay, so this is an interview with Cushmere Bell. It is Christmas Eve, 2008. Is that enough?
Cushmere Bell [00:03:23] Yeah.
Erin Bell [00:03:24] Did you say you’re Robert Thurmer?
Robert Thurmer [00:03:27] I’m Robert Thurmer. I’m involved with a project. Obviously the Director of the Cleveland State University Art Gallery, and we’re doing the show called Each in Their Own Voice: African American Artists from 1970 to 2005. African American Artists in Cleveland. So, yeah, let’s start at the beginning. When did you first realize that you had artistic ability?
Cushmere Bell [00:03:56] Oh, maybe when I was in- I don’t know. I’d sit around about fourth grade and, yeah, I could describe. I knew what I wanted to do when I was in fourth grade. You know, I was getting comic books. I really wanted to be a cartoonist. And, you know, so I was, you know, Spiderman, all the Marvel comics, you know, and I wanted to start a comic strip when I was around about. In sixth grade. So around- About that time when I went into high school, it just kind of accelerated a bit, you know, kind of, like withdrawn, you know. But also, I had a thing for sports, too. So this interest for comic books, for art development is concerned. I was, like, really into sports, but, you know, I wasn’t very athletic, you know, and my folks were. They really- They weren’t like the family that kind of, like, it’d take you to a ballpark or something. I had kind of doing myself. I take my little brother to a ballpark, whatever. But anyway, I was kind of, like, really into, like, sports uniforms. So, you know, the colors and stuff. So I- You know, Sports Illustrated covers, it kind of like jumped from comic strips to that. So I was like. That was kind of like my hustle in high school. I would. I would paint these covers from Sports Illustrated and stuff like that and sell them on the side. So they kind of, like, started right there, you know, and up to high school, basically kind of settled in around about 12th grade. And that’s when I began to discover, I don’t know, impressionism. That’s when it really kind of turned me on that I really wanted to do this, so to speak, or be a painter. That’s where I kind of decided to be a painter when I was around about 12th grade, primarily with impressionism. Right there.
Robert Thurmer [00:06:03] Did you go directly to the CIA after that?
Cushmere Bell [00:06:06] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I graduated from Shaker Heights High School. So it was kind of weird, you know, everybody was going to New York and Maryland and all the other stuff. So it kind of like going to CIA was kind of like a last minute, you know, I really didn’t think about it, but it just made sense. When I was sixth grade and I even called the Plain Dealer and I was like, you know, I’d like to start a comic strip and. Oh, you’d have to. I was like, oh, yeah? Oh yeah. Do you have a degree? I said, no. Okay, well, most of people who have comic strips here, you know, well, you have to go to art school first. I was like, oh, okay, so maybe I should go to art school then. So I pretty much started there. Yeah, that’s what I was about to. I went to CIA around about 1984, left after a year due to illness. I went back to school around about 90, around about 87. During that time I was working at Cleveland Museum of Art. I was a security guard. And you know, the CIA is right across the street. And I remember roaming the halls of CIA. What got me back into school was seeing some of the people in my foundations class, seeing their new work up on the wall, and I was seeing photography. And that’s what really kind of turned me. That’s what really pushed me back into school. At that time I thought black and white photography was kind of like some kind of magic or something like that. I was like, oh, I want to learn how to do this. And that’s how I kind of wanted to get back in school, around about ’87. And then I graduated in ’92 with a degree in photography and a minor in painting.
Robert Thurmer [00:08:13] So at what point did you realize that you were an artist?
Cushmere Bell [00:08:18] Let’s see. Maybe, I don’t know, like in high school, I guess. Yeah, I guess probably in high school. I mean, you know, it just kind of started to take over. That’s all pretty much what I was doing. I was just constantly, basically illustrating a lot of things. Maybe probably when I went back to school around about 87 and during about that time or something like that. I don’t know. I don’t know if it was a time that I decided that I wasn’t or figured it I was an artist. I just knew that it was something that I always wanted to do. I. I have even images from or memories from childhood, like from kindergarten. I mean, you can kind of say an influence was my older brother. My older brother I remember this. He was just drawing these comics, little goofy profiles, guys in afros and stuff. And I was like. I was like, oh, that’s kind of cool. I want to wish I learned how to do. I want to do that. So I started imitating my brother, kind of these little comic, these little comic images. And I don’t know, for me, that kind of took off right there. I don’t know if it’s something that it decided to be. It just kind of happened, maybe the way the family was structured, but I just knew that I didn’t want to stop doing it, especially after I graduated. After I graduated from high school. I remember during that time that I Left school, between ’85 and ’86, I just knew that I needed some kind of direction because, yeah, I remember going to spaces. It was like, during that. During that room, like, ’85, ’86. Spaces was still down in Warehouse District. And I think they did some kind of open call or something like that. I forgot her name. I think her name was Susan Channing. Well, anyway, I brought him certain little scribblings and stuff. These. What you kind of call a stream of consciousness. Things like these little. These swirls, these stormy hurricane kind of swirls and that type of stuff. I think I was doing this after I was- Because I normally. Because when I was in high school, I was doing a lot of realistic stuff, you know, I. Self portraits and paintings of people and stuff on top of the illustrations and stuff. And I remember when I was out of school, I just couldn’t do it anymore. So I just, you know, out of anger or frustration, I just started doing all these violent charcoal images, you know, just, you know, one after another. And then I remember taking it down to spaces. Oh, they have an opening. Let me see. Let me see. It came down to, like, I kind of like this. I remember asking a friend of mine that I wanted to do a portrait of, and you gotta do your portrait. It was like these violent squirrels and swirls. And I said, what is that? And I was like, I like it. Oh, that’s you. Of course. That’s how I see it. Well, anyway, I took these images down to spaces and. And it was like. She asked me some questions. Are you art student? And no, I left out the first year. And she was like, I think you should go back to art school. I was like, okay, maybe it started there or something like that.
Robert Thurmer [00:12:03] That’s good. Who helped you become an artist? Was there anyone who mentored you?
Cushmere Bell [00:12:11] Not really. I mean, I had a couple of teachers in school. There Was probably an influence when I was younger. Maybe it was one of the teachers in school when I was in high school in Shaker Heights High School. His name was James Hoffman, something like that. Anyway, he was kind of connected to New York or connected to this world that I always wanted to be a part of. There was another art teacher and he was kind of most people to be kind of fuddy duddy, you know, kind of more of a traditionalist type of guy. But his other cat was kind of like more leaned toward graphic design and that type of stuff. And I don’t know, it was just this, he was just hip to a world that we, I personally knew nothing about and, and you know, just gave you kind of like a spark that, or that you could actually make it if you tried or if you connect with the right people. But I remember him being kind of more of an influence and there was maybe a couple of teachers at CIA. But as far as the earliest influence, I’d say probably that guy who or.
Robert Thurmer [00:13:37] What helped you most in the growth of your career as an artist?
Cushmere Bell [00:13:44] Who?
Robert Thurmer [00:13:45] Yeah, or what?
Cushmere Bell [00:13:46] Or what? I don’t know, I don’t know. I, I, in a way I always found myself to be kind of self motivated. There’s a couple of people that have influenced me. Like certain artists and stuff.
Robert Thurmer [00:14:11] Yeah, talk about that a little bit.
Cushmere Bell [00:14:12] Okay, well in school, you know, when I first started getting, you know, I was in the impressionism, that’s what Kennington really first turned me on or gave me some kind of sense of direction. Just the colors, you know, people talking with the colors and stuff. Oh, and the symbolism, you know, Surrealism, that type of stuff. Yeah, primarily that. Impressionism, surrealism, you know, just, I just kind of really dug people talking with symbols and I just kind of like, you know, kind of back and forth with that, with the playing with the color and using symbols to relate what I couldn’t relate, you know, you know, as far as speaking with people. Because maybe another influence was the fact that I was kind of really isolated and I really didn’t have much connection. I mean I personally, look, I wasn’t really totally connected with my family, you know, you know, just feel kind of, you know, always on the outside, just so much you couldn’t express, you know, vocally. It just kind of naturally came out visually and. Yeah, and you know, a couple photography. What influenced me in photography, I mean, I mean I like really liked Diana Arbus’s work and that’s what initially turned me on that, I don’t know, people like Weegee [Arthur Fellig] or Robert Klein or something like that?
Robert Thurmer [00:15:51] Did you find that art education or William Klein?
Cushmere Bell [00:15:57] Was it something like. Something like that?
Robert Thurmer [00:15:59] Okay, what about your art education? Did that help you, or did that actually sort of hold you back a little bit?
Cushmere Bell [00:16:20] Well, okay. Well, you know, during that time that I was right before I became ill, I had an opportunity. I could have had an opportunity to go to New York and study in school there, but I was like, maybe I was at the wrong school, but I was like. I knew I wanted. I wanted to live there, but I didn’t get to that particular school. I guess I didn’t want to go there or something like that. But anyway. But I don’t know, as far as school is concerned, I don’t know, it just seems CIA. I thought it was okay, but, you know, I don’t really have any major complaints about the education system there. I mean, you can kind of say the school was kind of slow as far as technology is concerned. Yeah, definitely. Even what I experienced since I graduated that the art school really. You can kind of say the CIA really isn’t. Really. Isn’t really part of the community as it should be, or it really isn’t a respected institution in the way it should be. Maybe things have changed now, but that’s like in ’92 or ’80 something, like ’92 or something like that. But, yeah, I don’t know. Sometimes, you know, I think I probably could have been. Maybe I didn’t have their proper guidance upon graduation. Yeah. Because I remember I won some kind of. I won some kind of award at graduation. And I just remember just, you know, just not knowing what to do. I don’t remember communicating with anyone at that particular point in time, knowing that this was what I was doing. What I was doing, I thought was something kind of special. And I didn’t feel a hand grabbing me or pulling me in any type of direction. And I think that probably something that I should have got from the administration or something like that. So if I had any kind of gripes about schooling, it’s probably that. So. Because. I don’t know. Because I thought I probably should have went to graduate school after graduation. Now just kind of like. I kind of went in the opposite direction. I just decided to just travel around a bit.
Robert Thurmer [00:18:49] Well, this sort of fits in here. What were the largest obstacles that you have faced as an artist?
Cushmere Bell [00:19:01] I don’t know. Just kind of like becoming independent, I guess, or. Or some kind of maintaining some kind of financial independence. I mean, I really don’t have any support from my Family. I mean these are things that I really did. It’s kind of like when I went to CIA, I really didn’t think about it and it was just kind of like kind of a knee jerk reaction to it. You know, I didn’t plan it. And that’s probably the major obstacle that I encountered when I came back to Cleveland or when I traveled around and came back here. And it was like it just started from scratch. You know, I had worked at a job at a photo lab and you know, it was just kind of like I was kind of like going nowhere. I just didn’t know how to utilize or just didn’t really didn’t know how to manage money. You could probably say I didn’t really didn’t know how to manage my time. And knowing this is, you know, that wasn’t really what I wanted to do with whatever degree or something like that. But yeah, just achieving some kind of financial independence. I mean I didn’t get my own place until. Because I’ve been living with a lot of other people since I graduated. I’ve been living, rooming with other people, friends and my brother. At one point in time I didn’t start. Things didn’t really begin to happen until I started living by myself. And that was around about, I’d say ’90- Around ’98, ’97. ’98. Yeah. Until I started living. Until I got my own place. It took a long time to get there. I noticed a lot of people that around me, they were in their own places at that time. And that usually can motivate you when you’re living alone. It kind of can kickstart- That’s when things begin to really happen, begin to create again outside of school.
Robert Thurmer [00:21:10] Has living in Northeast Ohio affected your artwork in any way?
Cushmere Bell [00:21:14] Oh yeah, I think so. I mean it’s kind of weird. I find my influences are kind of weird. Well, not weird to me. But I haven’t connected with many people within the city that shared similar influences. You know, I’m really influenced by music also and yeah, just there haven’t been much common ground. So yeah, maybe the isolation, this forced isolation and I kind of like had to work out of it. I remember when I was in school most of my photography was mostly centered around the people that were in my environment because I lived on campus. And so there was always constantly people around. So it was always like pulling people in to sit for you. That was no big deal. But when I graduated from school, especially when I found my own place, that changed. I’m all alone now and trying to Reach out to people or people who have some kind of common bond. I really didn’t find much of that. And so you can kind of say that a lot of- Especially you can kind of say a lot of my work today is reflected upon isolation and I don’t know. And maybe the forces that. That cause isolation, you can kind of say.
Robert Thurmer [00:22:50] Okay, what do you feel has been your most important accomplishment as an artist?
Cushmere Bell [00:23:01] What? So far? I don’t know. I used to work at a college radio station. That was a big influence to me. I don’t know and I don’t know if that means anything, but I learned quite a bit. As far as, I don’t know, connect. As far as connecting with others, maybe in a spiritual sense, but connecting with others that I felt that were kind of where I’m from, because I connected with a lot of those, what I would regard as forgotten artists. People who had a lot of- Maybe a lot of talent, a lot of skills, but have been kind of like shoved out of the way or deemed or labeled as not important. And that may be probably the biggest. I don’t know if that’s big accomplishment, but that’s. It meant something to me at the one time I worked at Case’s radio station for quite a while and I don’t know. And just being exposed to that, you know, just. It. It did something maybe as far as family’s concerned, a parents or something, because we really didn’t really have a really strong father figure or something like that. And that I got something from connecting with what you would kind of say these lost souls. And I don’t know. And I think that kind of holds me today. I mean, I’m not really there today, but I think that kind of holds me there. And I don’t know, just knowing that there’s other people like me, maybe they’re not around me right now, but I have to keep fighting and keep working, keep building until one day I connect. I don’t know if I’ve had a greatest accomplishment, maybe. Right. Maybe this is my greatest accomplishment, but I don’t know, it’s just. I don’t know, maybe just right. Maybe just right now. I mean, I have my own place. I mean, I got my little studio so far, and I seem to be holding my own after all this time. And it’s right now. This is really all I can ask for. I don’t think my greatest accomplishment has occurred yet.
Robert Thurmer [00:25:33] Good answer. What have you done that has brought your work to public attention? Attention.
Cushmere Bell [00:25:49] Let’s see, let’s see as in-
Robert Thurmer [00:26:00] Well, I mean, we know your work, you know. And where have you, for instance, exhibited. Where have we seen it?
Cushmere Bell [00:26:09] Oh, I’ve exhibited my stuff at Spaces a couple of times. I had a couple of solo shows in Tremont at the, what, the Brandt Gallery or something like that. I think I was part of the May show at one point in time, around about ’90. Around ’91, ’92 or something like that. Although I have to say, I know there’s some people that know my work, but I don’t really think that I’ve.
Robert Thurmer [00:26:46] What have you done to brought your work to public attention?
Cushmere Bell [00:26:52] Yeah, I don’t think that I’ve yet to do that. I mean, I’ve just been kind of waiting, you can kind of say, wait until this. To a point like this because I’ve never really been stable. I’ve always been kind of like on edge, so to speak. I mean, I’ve just kind of what I would call just reached a point of being comfortable or being comfortable to talk about what I’m doing or comfortable to be able to shop my work around. So I don’t know, I’m just kind of hoping that things are beginning and maybe this year or something like that. Yeah, but. Yeah, but I’ve just been. For the past 10 years, I’ve just been kind of testing out this new work that I’ve been doing because I know it’s.
Robert Thurmer [00:27:37] I’d like to actually concentrate on this. You know, we’ve gone through the list of questions here, but I. I’m much more interested in actually hearing you talk about your actual work. You know, for instance, what I. What I’m really interested in is what it was originally in painting that you were trying to accomplish. And then, you know, that transition from painting to photography. Talk a little bit more about that you started to earlier and I’m interested in that.
Cushmere Bell [00:28:06] Well, maybe as far as painting is concerned, you know, I was doing a lot of realistic stuff in Impressionism, but what really kind of turned me on and what probably motivated me to switch majors to photography is because I started doing a lot of, you could say a lot of graffiti stuff. I mean, a lot of graffiti-type imagery. I don’t know, maybe this is related to a question as like, how is Cleveland’s influence? It was around about ’88, ’89. Downtown Cleveland was way different. And I just remember being in Glenville, you know, I just was really struck by a lot of the graffiti that I was being, that I was seeing. A lot of the, like downtown, a lot of abandoned buildings- There’s a lot of posters all everywhere. And you know, like, there’s certain posters. Like for instance, like my average, the Michael Jackson tour is like this one wall and you’ll just see this with this one image of Michael Jackson repeated over and over and over again. I just thought that was hilarious. And just certain images in the way they were kind of like put together. And I won’t forget that. I mean, so I remember seeing all this stuff and then I was like riding the bus at the time and I’m like looking at the wind. I’m just seeing all this stuff and I remember and I started just putting things together like that in the studio. And then that’s when I started like- I really started looking at Robert Rauschenberg’s work and a lot of that stuff. So that was as far as painting is concerned. That was probably like a big influence. I mean, I mean when. Especially now at that time I was working at the art museum and that square, Rauschenberg, that was like a big- I really- That was one of my favorites in that gallery. And yeah, and it’s like at that particular point in time, that’s when I started doing this collage type imagery. And I really couldn’t connect with the painting teachers at the time. I really didn’t know what to say or I didn’t- I just was playing around to stuff. But I just didn’t really. Didn’t know how to make it work. Didn’t really couldn’t communicate with it. But at the same time, that’s when I. At the same time, that’s when I discovered photography. And it’s kind of weird, when I went into photography, that’s when the abstraction occurred like that photography satisfied some kind of need for any kind of realistic or naturalistic interpretation of things. So anyway, so that’s when that can really kind of start it. So you can kind of say my photography influenced my painting.
Robert Thurmer [00:30:46] What kind of work are you doing right now?
Cushmere Bell [00:30:48] Right now? Well, I’m just. The painting collages. They started off kind of small and I’m making them bigger. I’m working on canvas now.
Robert Thurmer [00:31:01] Can you describe them a little bit?
Cushmere Bell [00:31:03] Can I describe them? Lets see. Well, I kind of approached them the way I approached the photography. I mean, photography was kind of like. I was kind of like photographing the world around me. Basically people that I knew and, you ynow, and I was quite familiar with downtown Cleveland as well as photographing a lot of people on the streets too. The paintings have a similar approach. I would like to Kind of. Maybe it’s psychological, I don’t know. But I kind of like to say that I just- That I- Describing the world and that I’m illustrating the world around me in a, probably in an abstract manner. Yeah. And I’d probably say that or- This is a weird. This probably doesn’t make any sense. But I wrote down in some kind of journal that I look upon myself as a- Well, as far as the new work, it’s kind of like a stenographer, like in a court. In a court of law or something like that. And I’m just recording this world that I see with this kind of hieroglyphic type, speech type thing. May not make sense to some people, but I think some people would understand it. Yeah. And it kind of works for me and it’s kind of fun for me. I mean- And I don’t have a- I mean, I would love to do- I mean I’m gonna- I want to do more or, I mean, I’ve got- I think I’ve got a good starting point where I can do more. I mean, there’s a lot of color and stuff like that right now. They’re mostly acrylic. And I pull a lot from popular culture. You know, billboards, torn billboards, magazines, stuff.
Robert Thurmer [00:33:06] Like that also sometimes.
Cushmere Bell [00:33:08] Or just the images right now. Just images. What, like including chairs and paintings. Actual chairs. I mean, I can see my set actually happening, but. Meaning, you know, I’ve been including a lot of 3D or late, but right now it’s been more kind of. You can kind of say tactile or. And I’m just kind of like- And just playing with the surface primarily. But. But as far as paintings are concerned, and even with the photography, I mean, I’m just kind of like. I just want to get some kind of good sense of design. And I guess we can kind of say that’s my major concern as far as anyone that sees what’s basically my paintings is I’m just more concerned about some kind of achieving a sense of design and structure and just the formulating a set process that, you know, just primarily that. I mean, I just wanted to make sure I have a certain process that I can continue to do more and more if I want to. So I don’t know if my work has any. My new work has anything specific to say, but I just want to make sure. I mean, I just. I know what I see. I think I like what I see. And you can kind of say what I didn’t do when I was still involved in Photography, I, you know, I didn’t plan out a certain regiment that would enable me to continue to do work. I think I’ve discovered that with the painting, that with this, I- What I would describe or describe a certain process or a certain way of that I can just keep going and keep going, and that’s one. And I think that’s what I need to do today. You know, as far as, you know, I’m just kind of like, maybe as far as money is concerned, that’s just a certain awareness that I didn’t have when I was in school with the photography. But. Yeah, but my main concern is just like, establishing a certain process that I can continue. When I get the supplies in front of me, I can just keep going and going. I don’t know if that makes any.
Robert Thurmer [00:35:35] Sense, but can you describe the process a little bit? Do you work on a single piece at a time? Do you have a couple different pieces going at the same time?
Cushmere Bell [00:35:43] Yeah, yeah, probably like three or four or five at the same time right now. How does it start off? Well, you know, I start off with a lot of collage imagery. You know, I work with, like a wheat paste type of a thing. That’s what I would say that I’d start with a certain grid, a very abstract grid comprised of newspapers or whatever and that type of a thing. You know, just lay down a certain foundation. Then I just- Whatever comes to mind. I used to frequent thrift stores quite a bit, and maybe I’m a scavenger hunter. Maybe I’m someone that collects things that people throw away. So I collect all these odd objects, or you can kind of say relics of the times. You know, right now it’s just two dimensional. And after a certain plain grid is set on whatever surfaces. Playing with this guy, after a certain grid, you know, generic grid is like I lay out with paste, the newspaper and stuff like that. Then I start to fix, like, these sound objects, quote, unquote, and just begin to assemble them until they begin to make some kind of rhythm. Until some kind of rhythm occurs. Then there’s like a process of adding and subtracting. Then that’s when I get into gesso. I cut thing- I cover things out, you know, just keep what, you know, just, you know, just cover things and leave things out. You know, cover certain things with gesso and then keep adding on and just keep adding on, add subtraction and delete. Just keep adding on, taking things out, adding things on until things make sense. And, you know, it gets to a particular point just Stop. And then I just kind of. That’s when I started developing color. I cover them all with a certain color, whatever. Whatever works. Of late, I’ve been kind of like, approaching a way that I never thought that I would just like, you know, let me start making red paintings. You know, after I get this certain foundation, let me know I’m gonna make this red. These are gonna be a bunch of red paintings. So, you know, just- There’s several variations of red or blue or whatever. And you keep adding and subtracting and eventually an idea because of something. Something kind of evolves. You can kind of see, like an embryo or something like that. You start seeing some kind of head, his little hands and little feet. And we all say. And you start, well, what is this? So, you know, that’s when I start playing with things. And you can kind of say, and maybe influence. Television influences me too, or primarily the news. And, you know, and I just kind of like, whatever’s topical or whatever and whatever makes sense. When I was in school, I remember doing a BFA and thinking someone probably asked me a similar question. And I just. That was like, as far as, like, what influences your work or your process concern? And I was like, well, you just. You just keep an open mind or just keep your head open and just wait for something to fall in, so to speak. So I keep the surfaces or the canvases open, and I really don’t have any set goal as to what it’s going to end up looking like. Just whatever strikes you and whatever makes sense visually. Just put it, take it. Whatever comes to you, just take it and put it there. And eventually it will all make sense and you only know when to stop and that type of a thing. So, you know, it’s kind of like maybe there’s an explanation for that, but. But, yeah, you know, they’re very abstract representations, but they’re still kind of like, I would say, in the real world, so to speak. You know, they’re- You know, in fact, I’m using words and images of people and writing things. You know, it’s- It’s in this world, so to speak. So you can kind of say, you know, just kind of abstract conversations with the world that I see, so to speak.
Robert Thurmer [00:40:08] How long does it take you to complete a thesis? Do you keep it around for a long time or do you very quickly?
Cushmere Bell [00:40:14] Oh, it all depends. It all depends. Well, you know. Well, because I really did. I really didn’t jump into this room about 19 until 99 today. I mean, I can make them, you know, it all depends. I mean you can make it quicker. I mean things can sit around and you can tag things on for a year and sometimes you can finish something. I don’t know, probably at the shortest amount of time, maybe six months or something. But it all depends. You know, with my work schedule I really have to. I mean that primarily I think affects as far as time is concerned. I mean if I was doing that, that was my full time job, I think that would affect the time.
Robert Thurmer [00:40:58] Do you think at all about the audience? Do you think at all about who’s going to be looking at these things besides you?
Cushmere Bell [00:41:05] Let’s see. Yeah, you could probably say yes and no. Yes and no. I think as far as the outside world is concerned and people, you know, I guess maybe that’s what the element of design is all means. The more I’m so about the design, even if I’m dealing with a subject matter that might throw somebody off a bit. There’s just usually what can hold a viewer’s attention is I think is the construction of it all. The design that if the subject matter might not strike you, but there’s something in the construction or the color that can hold the viewers, that can hold the viewer’s eye initially. So that’s. So yeah, I don’t really try to concentrate too much on getting some kind of message. So you know, because you can kind of say maybe my work’s kind of personal, but I don’t think they’re too personal that other people can’t relate to it. In fact, you know, personal fact that, you know, I’m probably gonna. Making images about stuff that, you know, only I know about, you know, like- Or something like that or. I mean I have this one picture with Britney Spears on it, you know, you know, a couple of years ago, I mean, you know, as far as me putting an image of Britney. Making an image with Britney Spears is like the focal point of it. And you know, the people that I- From what I- It was like initial people that when I showed that to some people it was like initial, you know, Britney Spears. And I was like, yeah, but it’s like in- And maybe that’s somewhat of the attraction of this like. Well, knowing that they’re gonna react. Want to initially reject that particular personality or maybe the way it’s constructed. But there’s something else about- As far as whatever else is going on. I mean I see something else. Well, you know, I know why I’m doing it. Maybe so and so doesn’t understand it immediately. I don’t know, maybe I kind of get a. Maybe I get a pleasure out of that or something like that, But. But, yeah, you know, I’m not really concerned too much about meaning, you know, maybe because. Not so concerned what other people think about what they. What they’re seeing. Because I don’t know. Because I know that I’m not really doing anything to disrespect anybody. Meaning. This is kind of like. This is kind of the world that I see around. Maybe it’s a world that people aren’t really aware of or they’re not paying attention to. But, you know, everyone’s not gonna like what you see or everyone’s not gonna like what you do. So. But I think, like, a certain element of design or I think some of my influences are kind of obvious and they kind of come through, and I think that connects with people.
Robert Thurmer [00:44:11] So it sounds to me that you’re. When you work, you discover things. You don’t really, like, have an agenda where you want to express something very specific. You sort of. It sounds to me like a. More of an internal, kind of a process of discovery.
Cushmere Bell [00:44:29] Yeah. Yeah. I think that my work is kind of like, kind of organic, you could probably say. I mean, there’s something I’m working on now that I’d like the first time. And I think it probably would matter that. I don’t know, maybe as far as titles are concerned, as far as, you know, I’ve never really worked upon something knowing what I want it to be from the get go. Yeah. It’s usually kind of like, well, let’s just see what happens. And that’s how a lot of my photography, how I worked it with photography, was kind of the same thing, you know. Well, I’ve got all these props and stuff like that, and we put these gels and slides together and we’ll see. Let’s see what happens. I have somewhat of an idea, but let’s see what happens. And we’ll take what we get when it happens. But I never really have been like, oh, I want it to be this and this and this right from the start. And I’m working on something that’s kind of like that. And the title has something to do with it. For instance, this is something that I’m working. Because most of the paintings and stuff, like the title comes afterwards, you know, after it gets why I feel it’s completed. I’d be like, oh, what is this? Then I’ll put a title on it. But this is something. It’s like a- Is it? I Don’t know if you’re familiar with the saxophone player named Roland Kirk. Yeah. And there’s like this album he did called Rip, Rig and Panic. And I don’t know, I just kind of like that title. And it was just the CD that I brought. And it’s like this really red cover and it looks like an eclipse or they kind of swatch it on. And then, you know, just, you know, maybe it’s just the music or whatever or just the COVID or maybe the title. Oh, yeah. And he has this little explanation of what Rip, Rig and Panic means. And I was just thinking, you know, I would really like to make a painting called Rip, Rig and Panic. And I was like, okay, what? Okay, well, all right. Rip, Rig and Panic. Okay, what will Rip, Rig and Panic be? Okay, whatever. Well, anyway, just kind of the first time that I. In that. I mean, just that approaching in that manner just- It kind of opens up a lot of different possibilities as far as what I could do. And it affected the way- It affects the way that I paint now because before that they were kind of like kind of really graphic orientated. But this is something. I may be something a little bit more painterly going into it. Anyway, well, I put the title up there. Well, this is gonna be Rip, Rig and Panic. Okay, now put the title on the shelf and just keep doing your thing, as I would. Okay. You know, get to a particular point, keep adding on. And I’m working with the title in mind or knowing what is going. What the title is going to be. And I’m quite sure there’s only- And that’s one thing about photography, the line of photographers, especially the work of, I guess, commercial photography, you know, it’s all about knowing what you’re going to get from Jump Street. You know, they really. A lot of those guys don’t really want to, you know, it’s not really about. Let’s see what happens. You know, they have a lot of. Those cats have to know what they’re going to get before they do it. And. And maybe- Maybe that’s a change in a way of thinking. Or maybe I’m maturity naked. Probably something like that. But. Or well, anyway, it’s just probably that. And I whip out about that. Well, anyway, yeah, just working with a title, knowing just it means something for me, like knowing what I want to do or what it might end up being, or knowing a certain expression before it happens as before. Maybe that’s a maybe I’m getting kind of comfortable with what I’m trying to do. And maybe you can’t do that unless you get kind of comfortable, unless you know what you’re doing or something like that, but I don’t know. But it did affecting the output or the end result or just the way I paint, but I don’t know if that makes sense.
Robert Thurmer [00:48:39] I want to ask you one more last question. I don’t know how much time we have, but is there anything that you are really anxious to start? Is there some. Some place that you want to go artistically? Is there some project that. That is sort of burning inside of you?
Cushmere Bell [00:49:09] I don’t know. You just have a fantasy or, you know, I mean, you know, you wish. I wish I could like, do this 24 7. I mean, what I’m doing now, I mean, you know, that’s. I guess that’s like the typical as far as what I want to do. I mean, I wish I had like the financial resources to just line, you know, just to line a certain, you know, line a studio with what steps and just kind of like turn it out or- Yeah. And just begin to finally connect. I mean, you know, I’m still kind of alien to the Internet and the computer and stuff, and I’m just kind of waiting till I get to that particular point. Not waiting, but I think I can like, step into that realm today or around about now. But you can kind of say of anything that I’m kind of waiting for, maybe it’s to connect on the Internet or the computer. I don’t know if I’m waiting for it, but I think that I’m. I’m kind of anxious. I know I’ve had. I’ve kind of had to wait. So until I can get some kind of. Until I know what I’m doing, I feel like I know what I’m doing. But any, like, as far as any major projects now, just- Just kind of- Just kind of connecting with the community finally. I mean, I really feel that I’ve been kind of. I, you know, you know, I feel like I’ve been kicked to the curb for quite a long time and I’m just kind of. I’m just kind of like looking at my watch and I was like, when is this- When is this torture? When is this over with? And. Yeah, so I’m just kind of waiting finally to connect with a world that I know exists. And as far as projects are concerned, I mean, I think that’ll come once I connect, make the proper connections, you know, but, you know, maybe waiting for an event or something like that to happen more so Than a project, a certain event. What event? I don’t know.
Robert Thurmer [00:51:20] Is there anything else that we’ve left out? Is there something that you want to say?
Cushmere Bell [00:51:31] Not really. I mean, you know, I think this. I mean, I’m just anxious to see what the show will be. I mean, it’ll be kind of cool. I don’t know. Yeah, it’d be kind of cool. You know, I. I think that I’ve kind of- I mean, I just have. You know, I think I’ve reached a point of self satisfaction or something. You know, I’m happy with what I’m doing and. I don’t know, I just think it’s a matter of time. Like then I connect with certain- With the- With the right individuals or right. Something so and so. But I don’t know. I don’t have anything major to say, but I don’t know. I like what I’m doing. I just kind of hope that I can. I don’t know if I can. I don’t know if I’m concerned if people like what I’m doing. I think I’m quite sure that there’ll be some people, but it’s like. I feel like it’s been kind of locked away for a long time and it’s- A certain chapter of my life needs to be over with.
Robert Thurmer [00:52:42] I have just one more idea for a question that I think would be very interesting to ask. And that is, do you know yet what. What is going to be in this particular show?
Cushmere Bell [00:52:54] What, as far as what particular works of my work? Yeah, I think Merlin mentioned that there’s a one. Something called Venus. It was like a photograph called Venus and she was going to use a painting, but that’s undecided.
Robert Thurmer [00:53:10] Oh, I see. I was going to ask you to talk a little bit about, you know, the works that were actually going to be in the show. If this Venus photograph, can you describe it a little bit? Can you talk a little bit about where.
Cushmere Bell [00:53:23] Yeah, it’s like a portrait of a friend of mine, something I did after I graduated from school. Just there was like some kind of questionnaire that I had to fill out and it was like, why do you think this is important or something like that or important to you? Well, anyway, it was just kind of like at that time, you know, upon graduation when I was in school, there was a lot of, you know, portraiture. I mean, there were some images that I made or, you know, primarily people. And there are some things that had like a certain concept to it. Like I would use like slide imagery Project slides and stuff and. And have people play a certain role. Well, anyway, it’s like this one is. I kind of like- But mostly I kind of like. Most of my work had like these generic titles to it. You know, it’s a portrait of so and so portrait, blah, blah, blah. And I just kind of like, you know, for me, it kind of connected that particular portrait can then connect it to the world. Painting first time, you know, because I look at a lot of my old photography, I see a lot of painting. I mean, I see the. Especially the black and white. I don’t know if anyone else sees it, but I see the impressionists, you know, just the working of the light. And this is one particular picture. Well, anyway, she’s. This is a woman that I know had a terrible accident or she had a spinal accident or she broke her back or something like that. And this was probably a couple of months after the accident. So she’s at a- Now I’ve had a couple of pictures of her, you know, before the accident, you know, and this is like after the accident. And I think it’s like a photograph in the attic. In her attic. So, you know, and I just kind of like wanted to record that moment. And it was just kind of like I really- It was kind of like a very speechless moment, you know, I really didn’t want to be like, you know, oh, I just didn’t want to be like, you know, everybody. I don’t want to be like, oh, I feel so sorry for you. And so, you know, just- And I just wanted to record that moment, you know, obviously something very tragic. And I think our. I think her boyfriend at the time was there with- Was there in the shot holding his lamp. And that’s another one of those things that kind of just happened. At first it’s kind of candid, and then it becomes. Then it becomes some kind of. Some kind of action going on. And, you know, she’s just laying out on this bare mattress, nude. And she has an obvious scar on her. On her side. And there’s someone holding a lamp. You see the lamp, like in a. She’s totally still- She’s totally still- And you see this lamp swerving as if. Oh, yeah. I describe it as if she’s- It appears as if she’s been struck or she’s about to be struck by something or has been struck by something, and she’s staring right at the camera. Well, anyway, I don’t know. I just kind of like, I don’t know. And afterwards I thought of what the Botticelli’s Venus. And I was like, you know, I was like, this reminds me of that Venus. And I just thought that that would be a perfect illustration of that moment, you know. You know, just this tragic image of this. Of this beauty. Yeah, yeah. Just kind of reverse it, you know, like, you know, rather than saying, how did this happen? Or why did this happen? This is what happened. All of a sudden, this happened. And you can probably say, why, you know, afterwards. But this, you know, just connecting it to that. That legend of Venus or something like that, I think probably, I don’t know, it says something for me. It kind of illustrates for me or something like that, but that’s pretty much it. This is black and white. At that time, I was doing a lot of black and white imagery. Most of my portfolio was black and white.
Robert Thurmer [00:57:46] And the painting that you’re gonna have in the show, is that gonna be from this more current series?
Cushmere Bell [00:57:50] Yeah. Although she really didn’t choose it yet. She chose something. I mean, I gave her a couple of things, but I gave her a couple explanations, but she chose something that someone else has. I don’t know. I was like, you know, oh, yeah, I was applying to the All High Arts council, and I had her, or her husband, like, was sending some slides or putting some slides on desk, and anyway, she had those other desks. She had those other images that I sent to our arts council, and she was looking at those and she, oh, can you. Can we get that? And I was like, well, that belongs to someone. And so it’s kind of undecided yet, I guess, about what else is going to be in there.
Robert Thurmer [00:58:41] Are we done?
Cushmere Bell [00:58:42] Good?
Robert Thurmer [00:58:42] Yeah, we’re good.
Cushmere Bell [00:58:44] Are you good?
Robert Thurmer [00:58:45] Do you want to add something?
Cushmere Bell [00:58:46] Not really. I’m okay.
Robert Thurmer [00:58:49] I mean, there’s a ton of questions that I have that, you know, you talked about your family a lot. Is there something that you might want to say about your family or.
Cushmere Bell [00:59:06] Nothing really bad, you know, not really bad, you know, sometimes. Yeah, not really. You know, I just. I’m just feel. I feel like I’m here alone, you know, like, where are you guys? And it’s like they’re kind of like, you guys are sleeping and. Okay. You know, like, you just wait for me to get some money. Yeah. Yeah. The local thing I can say about my family is just like, you know, I won some kind of award, you know, what kind of movie motivated me to leave Cleveland and travel, you know, just like, well, where are you guys? Like, when I wanted this little money on the ward and just knocking out, knocking on the door with the hands and hanging. Give us some money, give us some money, give us some money. And I was like. And I had to just get out of here. Let me get out of here. And that type of a thing. So that’s the only thing I could say about my family. Whether they would have waited for me to get to strike it rich or something like that. And until, until then, they- I won’t be seeing them. So I was like, well, whatever. But I really can’t say anything negative about them. But that’s good. But, yeah, the only thing that I can say about family is that sometimes there’s a lot of outside pressure, like, please don’t be like everyone. There’s a lot of people, especially I discovered in Cleveland, there seems to be. In the city of Cleveland, there seems to be a lot of animosity towards the arts and a lot of arts community. As far as the people are concerned, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know. It seems like a lot of art as far as that. I don’t know. That’s what I’ve noticed. As far as on the job and concerned, you know, when I say, what do you do? Well, you’re artist. Huh? And I don’t know, it just seems. I know there’s a lot of people that love to demonize people who, quote, unquote, play that role in life and whatever.
Robert Thurmer [01:00:59] Just for my own personal curiosity, really, you don’t have to answer this at all.
Cushmere Bell [01:01:03] Of course.
Robert Thurmer [01:01:03] But you mentioned that you had to leave school because of health reasons.
Cushmere Bell [01:01:09] Yeah.
Robert Thurmer [01:01:10] Can you talk about that a little bit or do you want to? You don’t have to. You don’t have to.
Cushmere Bell [01:01:16] Well, I don’t- Well, I guess I can. You know, it’s no big deal. What was I doing at the time? Oh, yeah, I had a liver disease. Oh, yeah. I mean, I was kind of poisoned, that type of a thing. So, yeah, you can. Yeah. What is it? Hepatitis. So, yeah, so I got shot down, but- So that’s about that, you know. So I took out. I took time out of school for about a couple years, then I came back. That’s good. Alrighty.
Erin Bell [01:02:02] I do have a quick question, and it may or may not be related to this exhibit whatsoever. Probably not. But in my experience from meeting different people and reading about different people, it seems like cartoon- And you’d mentioned you were early very interested in cartoons and comics. And it seems like that kind of goes along with a more introverted personality, which is something that you identify as having. So I wonder if you have any insights about that, because I’ve always found that interesting that cartoonists tend to be quieter.
Cushmere Bell [01:02:36] Oh, yeah? Okay. I don’t know. I don’t know too much about that, but I did one thing. I did notice that I. I’ve kind of, you know, I’m still into it. I don’t know how it relates to. I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe. Maybe. This probably doesn’t make any sense. I remember when I used to really like Robert Crumb’s work. I am, you could probably say, knowing what kind of guy he was or, you know, he didn’t kind of. I mean, his work is kind of loud, but he was probably. I don’t know, he seemed to be a very quiet individual or reserved type of individual. But I don’t know, I just kept- I don’t know if you’ve heard of the- I don’t know if you’re familiar with the original Barney Google and Snuffy Smith. You familiar with that comic strip, Barney Google and Snuffy Smith? Well, anyway, I don’t know. I decided- I always kind of wondered where he was in what influenced him. And then I think it was probably the Barney Google Chronic strips or something like that. [inaudible] It was just a certain- And I don’t know if that matters or anything. But as- I don’t know if you might be familiar that, Robert. You know, because Robert is really into a lot of that old jazz and that old blues and stuff and what Billy- Well, the original Barney Google- The original drawer of that was some guy named Billy de Berg. And it was around about 1920, 1922. Around about that time. And I don’t know if that matters, but it’s just like maybe there’s an introverted, you know, like, you know, you know, you’re interested in that and Billy de Berg and original Barney Google and stuff. But I don’t know. I don’t know about- Sorry, the introverts are concerned. Withdrawn. I really don’t know. I don’t know. But I think it’s kind of funny, though, that interest in comics, say, like from grade school, that I’m including a lot of comics in my work and I think they think that’s kind of funny. And I don’t know. And as far as comics are concerned, I kind of related to hieroglyph. I kind of like to use them like hieroglyph, hieroglyphs or hieroglyphic-type images, you know, or image or something like that. Or something like that. Just use them like they used them, or I think we can. Or something like that. Or even, like the superheroes and stuff like that. And maybe there’s some kind of- That. I think that there could be some kind of relation between, like, ancient script or something like that, but could be.
Erin Bell [01:05:33] Also, I just wanted to throw this out there while you’re at Shaker Heights. There was a teacher there named Malcolm Brown, I believe, who was a teacher in this exhibit.
Cushmere Bell [01:05:45] Oh, really? Oh, okay. All right. All right. I remember he used to work at the- He used to teach at the- He didn’t teach at the high school when I was there. I don’t know. I don’t think so. I think he worked there. He was teaching at the- When I was there, I think he was teaching at the junior high school. I think it was called Woodbury or something.
Robert Thurmer [01:06:05] Did you go to junior high school there?
Cushmere Bell [01:06:08] Well, they had two junior high schools. I went to something called Byron. Well, it’s not Byron anymore. I think they only have one middle school now, but. Yeah. That’s interesting. I know he has a gallery up in Shaker.
Robert Thurmer [01:06:20] Yeah, he does, right?
Cushmere Bell [01:06:22] So. Yeah, I kind of know him. And it’s funny, he used to. I was. Used to work at the. This photo lab up in Warrensville and Van Aken and used to come in there quite, quite, quite frequently. So, yeah, I kind of-
Erin Bell [01:06:37] But never had him as a teacher.
Cushmere Bell [01:06:40] No. All right, Very good.
Robert Thurmer [01:06:45] So are we done? Yeah. So.
Cushmere Bell [01:06:48] Okay, great.
Robert Thurmer [01:06:49] Thank you.
Cushmere Bell [01:06:49] No problem.
Robert Thurmer [01:06:50] Just a couple more pictures, if you don’t mind.
Cushmere Bell [01:06:52] Oh, yeah.
Robert Thurmer [01:06:54] You know, because I- I’m not- Contrary to you, I’m not a photographer, but-
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