Abstract
Nora Skillern, a member of the Shaker Lakes Women's Committee (Friends of Shaker Lakes), discusses her personal experiences and philanthropic roles at the Shaker Lakes Nature Center. Skillern details fundraising campaigns for the Center, and credits her interest in outdoor recreation to her background as a child growing up in England, where she visited metropolitan parks and learned to garden. Skillern also discusses working for the English colonial government in Africa during the era of decolonialization, and her childhood experiences in England during World War II.
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Interviewee
Skillern, Nora (interviewee)
Interviewer
Sack, Mark (interviewer)
Project
Shaker Lakes Nature Center
Date
2006
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
30 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Nora Skillern Interview, 2006" (2006). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 902008.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/235
Transcript
Anthony Bifulco [00:00:00] Okay, where are-
Mark Sack [00:00:01] Good morning. This is Mark Sack, teacher at Cleveland Heights High School, along with Tony Bifulco, a colleague at Cleveland Heights High School, working on Cleveland State University’s oral history project. And we’re here today with Nora Skillern, who’s been recommended to us by the Nature Center at Shaker Heights, to discuss some of her experiences and insights about the Nature Center and the surrounding lake. Good morning, Nora.
Nora Skillern [00:00:29] Good morning.
Mark Sack [00:00:30] Could you please share with us a few details about where you were born and where you grew up?
Nora Skillern [00:00:36] Well, I was born in jolly old England a long time ago, and I was educated in England. I went to Africa with the British colonial service and back to England and with a friend came for a visit to Canada, Toronto for a year. And then I came to Cleveland because I had some friends here for a visit. And then I met my husband who spoiled the whole thing. So I’ve been here ever since.
Mark Sack [00:01:18] You were setting Cleveland that you arrived in Cleveland, what year?
Nora Skillern [00:01:21] I can’t remember. Not- 1955 probably. Yeah.
Mark Sack [00:01:28] And your visit to Cleveland became permanent.
Nora Skillern [00:01:32] Very nice. Very nice.
Mark Sack [00:01:34] Since our focus is on the outdoors and the facility here, could you please describe an early memory of an outdoor experience that left an impression on you?
Nora Skillern [00:01:48] You mean as a child? Well, you know from my age that we- I was educated during World War II in England. And petrol, as we call it, and you call it gasoline, was rationed. And Sunday was the only day we went out for family. We used to go pack a picnic lunch, drive out to the New Forest or some comparable to the metropolitan parks, have a picnic. And that was our day’s outing. That was the first one. And I carried that over to my children here. And that, as they’d always tell you, mother never stopped at McDonald’s. She always packed a picnic lunch. We went the Holden Arboretum, metropolitan parks, everywhere.
Mark Sack [00:02:49] You spent time in Africa?
Nora Skillern [00:02:51] Yes, but only 18 months. I was British colonial service in Nigeria.
Mark Sack [00:03:00] Any special experience in-
Nora Skillern [00:03:02] No, it was the period when the British were withdrawing rule and turning it over to self-rule. And this was the period of adjustment, change. What’s- you’re English majors? What’s the right word? You know, the transferring of the transition period. Right, that’s- But as for- Wasn’t any great- I mean it was a good experience, but nothing very memorable.
Mark Sack [00:03:41] Can we talk a little bit about your first connection with the Shaker Lakes area?
Nora Skillern [00:03:50] Well, we lived here. We lived in East Cleveland. When we were first married. My husband only had one priority in life. It had to be close to the Cleveland clinic. So we started in East Cleveland, and then we moved here to Shaker. That was after they had established the. Went down to the State house at Columbus and established this as a federal state. You know, you can’t- What’s the right word? You can’t build on this. It’s a protected area. Yeah, right. And that was already in effect. And I just came here because I liked the outdoors. I just think it was an oasis in the city, in the suburbs. The other good thing I always thought they did, I think they still do, is bring children in from the inner city. They bus them in here, take them on walks around the Nature Center. Yeah.
Mark Sack [00:05:09] So as a single person or before or after you immediately got married, did you and your husband utilize the-
Nora Skillern [00:05:16] The area as a resource? But not when I was single. I did it like after I was married.
Mark Sack [00:05:22] And with your children, then we’ll talk about your children. And then maybe some of the activities they did. Well, why don’t we do that now? In terms of the Nature Center or the Shaker Lakes area, what were some of the types of activities that your children were involved in?
Nora Skillern [00:05:38] Well, I don’t think it was- Mostly I was leading them around on the trails and things like that. They didn’t do a lot of classroom things here, if that’s what you meant.
Mark Sack [00:05:55] Well, that’s one of the directions of the-
Nora Skillern [00:05:57] Yeah.
Mark Sack [00:05:57] -questions is to see how the facilities had been utilized.
Nora Skillern [00:06:00] They may have done a small amount, but nothing-
Mark Sack [00:06:04] Okay, so then your first connection was just using the area and the facilities for family.
Nora Skillern [00:06:11] Right, Right.
Mark Sack [00:06:13] But eventually it became a more formal connection.
Nora Skillern [00:06:17] Yeah, somebody enrolled me. Somebody’s always enrolling me in something in the Women’s Committee.
Mark Sack [00:06:26] We know- Anthony and I know nothing about the Women’s Committee. Give us a little bit of background and its purpose, its structure.
Nora Skillern [00:06:34] Oh, boy. You should ask- You should interview some of these other women that are the founding- Like Lynn.
Mark Sack [00:06:45] We can do that too, but we’d like to hear your perspective and maybe at the end you can give us some- Those names.
Nora Skillern [00:06:55] I think the purpose was- Well, it’s always- Fundraising isn’t always seems to be the number one fundraising, which we did a lot of. And we- I think we tried to get the message out to the- Our friends and the community and a sense of- They had the big fundraiser party in the park, and I can’t remember which year it started. I think it was around that time, 1980s, around that period. The other thing that we did during the time I was president was that we had solar heating. Had just become, I wouldn’t say popular, but people became aware of it. And we organized a house, tour of houses that, you know, I think as I remember, mostly the skylights putting in, but the people that were making an effort for solar heating, we did that during the time. We have fundraisers like Christmas Bazaar or something. And we had regular meetings. I think they were once a month. And they were always education and focused on nature, you know, preservation, any related subject. Because it eventually developed in the Friends. Now they call it the Friends. And it was- The other thing we did too, and that was. I was the first chairman of it with another lady was the plant sale. We now have the plant sale going regularly every- Yeah, it’s a regular feature here. And I was chairman with Janet Greenwald of the first one. We raised $2,000, which was- It wasn’t bad. But of course, they’ve expanded it and that’s very well.
Mark Sack [00:09:29] So the Women’s Committee eventually became-
Nora Skillern [00:09:34] Yeah, that’s- You know, I don’t- Quite honestly, I don’t think they could get the support. This is true, as you know, where so many women are working today and that- I don’t think they could get the support from the women. So that they went, friends. And so this encompasses men, you know, other- Widened the door because we always had it Thursday morning meetings were always Thursday, you know, so.
Mark Sack [00:10:12] Yeah, that’s interesting. During the ’70s, the freeway fight, the fight to preserve this area as it was. As it is. Can you give us some of your observation? Living in the community.
Nora Skillern [00:10:30] Yeah, but I probably was too busy being a mother. You know, I remember it, but I was not involved with it. Quite honestly, I was not involved with it because my children would have been very small at that time, but I think we were all opposed to it. You know, I think that, I just remember. Wasn’t it Al Porter? Al Porter was-
Mark Sack [00:11:03] So your memory is just that you.
Nora Skillern [00:11:05] Were in opposition, but you weren’t involved. No, I can’t honestly say I was. People like Cave Fuller and Gene Aiken and I’m. You’ve probably been through. Yeah, those were. Those were the women that were.
Mark Sack [00:11:26] What changes have you seen in the nature center since you first became involved? And have you observed some things that are different changes, physical?
Nora Skillern [00:11:36] Oh, yes. It’s all a lot different. Of course, I think there were three staff people when Rich Horton was director, and then there was a woman who was treasurer and someone else’s secretary. And I think that’s where we- The Women’s Committee. Now you remind me. We picked up, like, we would help with mailings and you know, that type thing that- That’s what we did. So. But it’s just gotten much bigger because you have a lot of staff here now. We had naturalists. I’m talking about the staff, too, because they have a lot more. Children’s classes increased, I mean, in number, obviously, and because the building was expanded, you know. And I remember when they put the Stearns Trail in. That was another lady. She passed away. Mortensen. I don’t know whether her name has come in. She was part of the Stearns family who had a lot of money. You better delete that one. You know what I- You know what I’m saying? But who should- I’ll say. Who was a financial contributor to the Nature Center. That’s why it’s called the Stearns Trail. And she put a lot of financial support, which we needed then, you know, that just wasn’t the help. The other thing. Can I take a minute?
Mark Sack [00:13:37] Oh, please.
Nora Skillern [00:13:38] Brought something. I brought something with me. I couldn’t find anything. Julie asked me if I had any records or anything, and I couldn’t find anything. My husband passed away and I’ve had a lot of- This was one thing. Have you interviewed Ann Herbruck and Joan Schattinger?
Mark Sack [00:14:03] No, no. We’re a very limited part of this whole Nature Center thing, so we’re going to be given 10 names altogether.
Nora Skillern [00:14:12] Am I off record? [crosstalk] Well, it doesn’t matter. But that was the thing. The first one I was not involved with. They did- They produced this book called The Travel Bug, and it was Ann Herbruck and Joan Schattinger. And it was sold for 2.75. It’d be 22.75 today, but it had focused on where to take your family in Cleveland. And it was then, what I did, it had to be updated, obviously, because, you know, admission changes, things change. And I work with John Shattinger, and that’s the only- I can’t- As I said, my husband passed away and I’ve been through a lot of paperwork and I can’t find anything else. But that was 1976 when we revised it, see, that’s what, 30 years ago?
Mark Sack [00:15:20] Correct? 30. Exactly 30 years ago.
Nora Skillern [00:15:23] And. But it was published maybe five years, right?
Mark Sack [00:15:27] It was published in 1972. So 4.
Nora Skillern [00:15:29] Is it down there? Yeah.
Mark Sack [00:15:30] Right.
Nora Skillern [00:15:31] Okay. But I just think that’s interesting to put down.
Mark Sack [00:15:35] Oh, it is. Now, what was the future of The Travel Bug after 1976? What happened?
Nora Skillern [00:15:43] We sold it. And then nobody did anything about it. I don’t think, financially it paid. See, we didn’t take advertising. So, you know, we had to bear the cost. Now, you’d have to check this out with Joan Schattinger and Ann, but that was my memory. We, you know, it cost money to produce even a small book, obviously.
Mark Sack [00:16:13] So it was a family guide for quick Cleveland and Ohio trips.
Nora Skillern [00:16:17] Yeah.
Mark Sack [00:16:17] And there were over 290 interesting nearby places and things to enjoy with the kids.
Nora Skillern [00:16:24] I had the best time because we had to go to these places, a lot of them, you know, to check up and see if what they told us was up to date. And so it was. That was a good job. I enjoyed that one. But I’m sure I’m right in saying the reason we couldn’t keep going, it was too expensive. Yeah, it was the cost. You know, advertising plays such a big role now in any publication, which, of course, pays for the publication, but we didn’t take any advertising.
Mark Sack [00:17:03] That’s very interesting. We’ll do a little background on- See if we can find a couple copies of The Travel Bug.
Nora Skillern [00:17:11] Oh, I’m sure you- I wonder if I am- Well, you want me to look?
Mark Sack [00:17:17] Yeah. Well, if you have one at home, that would be nice to see.
Nora Skillern [00:17:21] How often are you here?
Mark Sack [00:17:23] We’re here again on Friday for more interviews, but it could be-
Nora Skillern [00:17:28] But I could always leave at the front desk for you. Yeah.
Mark Sack [00:17:34] Okay. Touched on that. In terms of the changes in the area, in terms of landscape or wildlife or plant life, since you’ve been first coming here, any casual observations that you could make?
Nora Skillern [00:18:02] Well, I don’t quite know what to say. I appreciate the fact that they leave everything in the natural, you know, the natural environment. I don’t think that- I don’t think I feel any negative thoughts about it. You know, I still come over and roam around and [inaudible].
Mark Sack [00:18:42] And are your children in the area?
Nora Skillern [00:18:43] No.
Mark Sack [00:18:43] They’re not in the area, so they don’t have that opportunity to.
Nora Skillern [00:18:47] No. Mm mm.
Mark Sack [00:18:48] Okay, you sort of touched upon this, the challenges over the years that the Nature center has faced. What do you anticipate as maybe some of the challenges down the road?
Nora Skillern [00:19:05] Well, I suppose they’ve got to do the same. You’re talking about fundraising. I did work on the fundraising with Ann Burton. Now, she passed away and she was president here and a very active and a very, very knowledgeable woman. And I worked with her. I knew her. She started one of the first fundraisers we had, and we had a consultant. I can’t even remember his name, but he was in some office downtown, and we worked on a pyramid thing for fundraising. It may have just Been you should talk to like Linda Johnson and some of these other women that do more than I do. But we worked on a pyramid system. Like somebody you asked in those days, 10,000 was a lot. The next ones were 5,000. Then they put me down with the thousands. You know what I mean? They had a whole pyramid. And I worked on that committee. And that was a very interesting thing because most people did support us. The way I remember it, who knows, 25,000 may have been only our goal at the time. I don’t remember exact money, but we did get support. And I think we. I know they still do go to organizations for like the Cleveland foundation, right? Yes, that type thing. Because I think they still have to have. The Cleveland schools haven’t obviously got enough money to bring the children up here for there.
Mark Sack [00:21:04] Right. That needs to be subsidized.
Nora Skillern [00:21:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mark Sack [00:21:08] So the physical challenges.
Nora Skillern [00:21:10] Yeah, I think, yeah, I would think that some of the biggest. It’s. I think all nonprofits are facing that today. But hopefully.
Mark Sack [00:21:25] Other than challenges, what do you. You sort of also touched upon this. Some of the greatest successes that you see, the nature center or your involvement with the nature center. You talk a little bit about the travel bug, which I think based on the article you told me was a significant success. But are there other things that you see the nature center being successful in or the women’s committee?
Nora Skillern [00:21:51] Well, I think that I was not personally involved with Party in the park, but I think that one from the beginning was a good fundraiser and that you will have to talk to. They must have, you know, people who are committees and everything who did all that. And as I say, I just hope we can keep it. I still think that’s the biggest challenge.
Mark Sack [00:22:21] And what do you see as the major threats to being able to keep it other than financial? Are there other challenges? Do you sense that besides the financial aspect?
Nora Skillern [00:22:33] Well, because it can never be reversed, can it, once this is declared a state thing. But one of the biggest complaints in the city of Shaker Heights, it may be in the city of Cleveland Heights are very, very high tax. So taxes, we are taxed very heavily. I just drove by and I love driving by and I think, wouldn’t the condominium developers have a great time putting condominiums all around the Shaker Lakes? It’ll never happen. But no, I just- I hope there’s enough support and see everything’s enlarged. As I said, the plant sale, we made $2,000. Well, now they make I don’t know how much and it’s enlarged and better. And I think this is what’s happening with any fund or any fundraising they do here. They’re able to make this into bigger and better.
Mark Sack [00:23:45] Right. But you were part of the women’s community that laid the foundation for some of that. And that’s quite an accomplishment. I think it added to the stability of the organization. And while it still faces ongoing challenges to raise even larger amounts of money, at least there’s a foundation. There’s a history here of how to go about doing it with the public.
Nora Skillern [00:24:09] Right.
Mark Sack [00:24:09] And I think those are-
Nora Skillern [00:24:11] Well, is this important? Yeah.
Mark Sack [00:24:13] Yes. Tony, is there anything that you’d like to touch upon?
Anthony Bifulco [00:24:20] You know, maybe briefly, if I ask a question, I don’t know how related it is to your experience with the Nature Center, but just in the beginning of the interview, it just caught my attention that you were born and raised in England. You grew up during World War II. I was just, you know, what are some memories that stick out in your mind of about that experience growing up during the war, being a young child during the war? And that was a pretty broad question. I know you said there was rationing. There were also certain days designated where you could actually go out into the countryside.
Nora Skillern [00:24:53] Well, in my family, designated, I meant, you know, the government didn’t say that. But if you only had two gallons of gas, you know, that the family made that decision. Well, I don’t know what to tell you that, but I went to school with a gas mask on my back. That was one of the first rode my bicycle. And it was very. Our life was very limited. I don’t think I went to London until I was about 14 or 15 years old. See the bombs? The German bombers used to come over and drop them on London. And then we were west of London and I was near the Royal Military Academy and Aldershot and Farnborough, which is the research, where they researched the jets. So the Germans, if they were jets and bombs, that was the scary part because we didn’t know, you know, where the thing- It didn’t happen all the time, but I mean, that was one of the things you don’t forget. But with the schools, I was very fortunate. I went to a good school which had a good English program, but we did not have any after school activities. We went from 9 to 4 and that was it. And you went right to school. You came right back from school. So there wasn’t any football, tennis, which is my sport. We were not allowed to participate in any activities. It was to the school. Now, when the air raid sirens went off, we did not have, you know, they were all evacuated out of London, as many as they could. And we took a boys’ school, boys’ private school from London and let them use because we had phys labs, chemistry labs, you know, all those things. If the air raid sirens went off, we had to sit in corridors because there wasn’t any glass windows or anything. But that was considered the safest place. But we weren’t hit. I can’t say that. But you’re not going to put that down for the Nature Center?
Anthony Bifulco [00:27:39] No, I was just trying to get at too, about getting back to thinking about your childhood experiences. That was interesting. But also now and I guess back to a question, Mark asked it earlier, and that is, is there anything else in your background in your childhood? I know you were only later on in life, you were only 18 months in Africa, in Nigeria, but were there any experiences that maybe led to you gravitating toward involvement with the Nature Center later in life and an interest in nature?
Nora Skillern [00:28:11] Well, I think that really, because I was born and raised in the country, I think we had a respect for the country. We gardened, you know, because the British always garden anyway, but they had to do a lot more during World War II. But I think that, you know, my family, that was just my environment and that was the way I was raised. And so that’s the way I enjoyed it and I wanted to continue. Yeah.
Anthony Bifulco [00:28:50] That’s all I have right now.
Mark Sack [00:28:53] Nora, is there anything else you’d like to share that we haven’t touched upon that has to do with the Shaker Lakes, the Nature Center?
Nora Skillern [00:29:00] No, I think it’s a great place.
Mark Sack [00:29:04] Okay. Well, again, thank you very much for your time and-
Nora Skillern [00:29:06] Well, thank you.
Mark Sack [00:29:09] -your input, and I’m gonna look up- If you have a copy of The Travel Bug-
Nora Skillern [00:29:12] Yes, I’ll see.
Mark Sack [00:29:15] If you do. And we’ll be here, like I said, Friday, and if you could leave it at the front desk for us if we’re not here.
Nora Skillern [00:29:20] Write your name. [crosstalk] No, I don’t-
Anthony Bifulco [00:29:27] Guess we will stop this.
Nora Skillern [00:29:29] Yeah.
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