Abstract
David Buttram, a Cleveland artist and high school art teacher, recounts his childhood desire to draw cartoons and how art became his strength in school. He enrolled in Cooper School of Art, then CIA, and ultimately earned a Masters at Kent. He discusses how his thirteen-month tour of duty with the Marines in Vietnam influenced his work, his subsequent employment as a machinist, and his return to painting. The interview also focuses on characteristics of his paintings, which are mostly urban scenes, and he talks about how the images he painted twenty years ago are very different from the current images seen in Cleveland. Light, shadow and color are important to his work, he uses photography to capture images and then draws working sketch from photo.
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Interviewee
Buttram, David (interviewee)
Interviewer
Hansgen, Lauren (interviewer)
Project
Cleveland Artists Foundation
Date
12-3-2008
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
33 minutes
Recommended Citation
"David Buttram Interview, 03 December 2008" (2008). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 901026.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/238
Transcript
Lauren Hansgen [00:00:00] All right, I’m Lauren Hansgen. I’m with the Cleveland Artists Foundation, and we are here on December 3, 2008. And I’m with David Buttram. If you would just tell us your birthday and where you were born.
David Buttram [00:00:14] Okay, first of all, good evening to you. Good afternoon. Born the year was 1947, October. Born right here in Cleveland, Ohio. St. Luke’s Hospital.
Lauren Hansgen [00:00:26] So I guess to start, I’ll ask you, when did you first realize that you had artistic ability?
David Buttram [00:00:31] Well, my memory probably can go back to maybe three. When I was becoming aware of Walt Disney and all of the comics, Donald Duck and, you know, the host of them, I wanted to draw. When I saw him do cartoons and animation, I had a fascination of animation. So it was the Disney programs.
Lauren Hansgen [00:00:55] So when did you first realize that you wanted to be an artist? That not only was that something that was a hobby or that interested you, but that was what you wanted to actually do for your life?
David Buttram [00:01:07] I think at first I must have boys. I don’t know. Boys used to like to draw, draw cartoons. And I used to watch other kids do it. And I said, wow, I can do that. And it was just like a competition thing to me, telling myself that since I wasn’t so great academically, that is, in math, it was not my strong points. I could draw a little bit easier. That was where I was relaxed at. And over the years, I started drawing, and then I began to appreciate the deeper qualities of art, such as painting and music, and I just had to search out which one of those was going to be my niche. And in high school, I drew, and that helped me make it through high school, being able to do art, because that was my relief spot. I’d go to the art class, and I said, wow, that would help me make it through the day. And as time went on, I began to appreciate painting. And I guess after I returned from the military, I really, really sunk in. I said, this is my take in life to be an artist. I want to be an artist. Even though I was a machinist and worked in a machine shop, my heart was in art, and I landed in painting. And there were so many different ways to go in painting. So now, to this day, I just love to paint.
Lauren Hansgen [00:02:24] Was there anyone, like teachers that you had or family members that kind of pushed you in that direction or said, like, hey, you’ve really got something here. You should.
David Buttram [00:02:32] No, actually, no, because my family, especially my mom’s, who did day work, I never got no encouragement because they probably didn’t appreciate the Value of art. And she was more interested in me doing the math and the reading. The teacher was Mr. Keber. He was my favorite teacher. Silly, goofy. Well, he acted goofy to get, you know, to show that humor in the classroom. And some of that carries over with me. You know, to make it through the day, you have to have a sense of humor. And he inspired me and he pushed me, and I needed that.
Lauren Hansgen [00:03:09] Do you think you do that for your own students?
David Buttram [00:03:11] Absolutely. When I teach, when times get rough, I have to look back and look at myself. Back in the ’60s, this is what he did for me. Today, I play music in the classroom. Sometimes if they’re on task, I’ll play the type of music that they like to hear. I won’t go. I’m not too heavy into the hip hop, so. And we’re just somewhere in between hip hop and R&B. We’ll play something that we’ll. Or some of the local channels.
Lauren Hansgen [00:03:40] Do you relate to students when you see. Do you ever see yourself in them? Like, math wasn’t their subject, but when they come to art class, they can just really shine. Do you see that and try and encourage it?
David Buttram [00:03:54] I always encourage him and remind him that art is everywhere. It’s on everything you see, from automobiles to your furniture to your clothing. I have to constantly remind them of that. But somehow I have to also remind them that art is not a thing. A lot of students feel like art is just not necessary. Why do I have to take it? It’s boring. And I have to counter by saying that everybody can draw. If you can sign your name and you can write cursive, or if you can draw a circle, you know, the difference between a circle and a star, you know, these shapes and these forms, you can draw. It’s just a matter of how you want to express it.
Lauren Hansgen [00:04:34] After high school and as you went on, were there other people, other artists or other, just people around you that helped your career grow as an artist or that kind of pushed you along?
David Buttram [00:04:46] You see, after high school. Well, right after high school, I went directly into the military, United States Marine Corps, and went straight to Southeast Asia. And I don’t recall having any desires to draw, paint when I was over there, because it was just a matter of me surviving. It was when I got back that I reminded myself, when I worked in a machine shop at TRW, that this was kind of boring. And I still had this desire to want to draw and to paint and. And I says, well, in order to do this, I got to go to school and So I enrolled in the Cooper School of Art and it all continued.
Lauren Hansgen [00:05:28] As far as your art education goes, when you went to the Cooper, do you think that ultimately that helped you, that you really thrived in that kind of environment or did it hinder you in any way?
David Buttram [00:05:38] Oh, it helped me. It helped me because like I said, art can go in so many different directions. You know, drawing can go in so many different directions. Charcoal, painting, pen and ink, you know, it’s just more. It’s just so deep. And a formal education, you know, you can go and be a- What do you call it, an artist, Just self-taught artists. A lot of things that are with me already. But I needed direction, okay. And these teachers, there’s a multitude of good teachers at that school. And when I completed that school, it wasn’t enough. And I went on and attended and graduated from the Institute of Art. And after that I decided to get out of the shop, the machine shop. I said, I want to completely change over. It was like a midlife change. And I went back to the. Oh, I started teaching part-time.
Lauren Hansgen [00:06:33] I’m sorry, were you a machinist, [crosstalk] working the whole time you were in art school?
David Buttram [00:06:36] I raised- I raised my family- At General Electric, I worked there for 18 years, and they closed the plant down. And at that point I went to the Cleveland Institute of Art to get my degree there. And then I landed a job at Cleveland teaching and if you want to hear the rest of the history. And at that point I said, well, this is not going to get it. So I went and attended night schools at Kent to get my master’s degree, to compete the whole deal. And as I went for the degree, I wanted to learn everything I could about painting. But primarily, looking back old Cooper School of Art and some of the same teachers I had there, I had at the Institute of Art. It was just so much to learn. It was difficult, but it was a task that I had to complete.
Lauren Hansgen [00:07:25] Do you find that you- What was it like to go into an environment where instead of at school, where art was one part of your day and there were students there with other interests? What did it feel like to go into to art school where art was your whole day and all the other students there were artists too? Did you feel different being in that environment?
David Buttram [00:07:43] Yes, yes, I did, because, number one, I was focused. Remember, I had gotten back from overseas war, I was working, I was focused, no games. And most of the students, my peers were the age of my children, so I was the adult in the classroom with students. And I just did my time. I said, I’m going to take care of business, you know, and it was okay.
Lauren Hansgen [00:08:06] Going back to your time in the military, you said that. I mean, your- That was, you know, such a, such a thing to go through that you’re, you were totally- Your mind was just on what you were doing there and not on art or anything like that. But do you think it informed your art coming back?
David Buttram [00:08:23] No doubt about it. That experience. Thirteen months and two days in Republic of Vietnam. I was appointment infantry, and I was young, glad I was young, because, you know, you need young people to fight a war because now I wouldn’t do it. But the spiritual aspect and the line between dying and being alive and that experience, oh, man, I get kind of overwhelmed, kind of thinking about it because I’m here and I don’t have to be here. You know, so many of my friends, blood and guts. It’s just war is just, you know, war is just a big lie and it’s hell, you know, it’s where people, men go to die. It’s honorable, but it’s not a good thing, I think. And it just helped me to stay focused and helped me to know that God is real. Okay. So when I made it from there, I had some prayers, and then the prayers were answered, but I took them for granted. And then when I got back and got out, I realized that that was really the essence of it all to me.
Lauren Hansgen [00:09:28] So there was a trying time that ultimately helped you in life, but in art as well. What other obstacles did you have to face as an artist in trying to become an artist and to get your art to the point you wanted it to be at.
David Buttram [00:09:43] It’s still not to the- I’m glad that I’m not satisfied with where I’m at now as an artist because my eyes still see things that I want to. Things that I still want to do now as a time factor. Energy. I have to have energy. And as you can see, I went 10 years without working at all. I stopped in the late ’90s because I was kind of exhausted. You have family matters, and I’m greatly involved in my church. And I think that those times when I’m not working in painting, I’m building up energy, like right now. I started back within the last couple of years, and things are different in my paintings. I’m satisfied, but I’m not completely content. I love the works of the Impressionists and the painters of the Ashcan School. I like to look at paintings in my eyes, and there’s things that I Like to kind of, you know, some of the artists that are gone, I’ll borrow some of their techniques or, you know, and there’s a story to be told in some of the works and paintings. It’s our job to record what we see, what we live, the area we live in.
Lauren Hansgen [00:10:49] You know, touching on that, how has it, living in northeastern Ohio, how has that affected your work?
David Buttram [00:10:57] Okay, in Northeast Ohio, as opposed to- I stayed, haven’t stayed in one spot long enough to- I was stationed in California. You got palm trees out there. Overseas, you got palm trees. You got warm weather. You got this. To me, this is nice. At my age, I don’t say I love cold weather because it affects your pocketbook, it affects your bones, but it’s just so beautiful, you know? And I’ve done a couple of scenes, painting scenes, winter scenes. It’s different than some of the works that I did previously of just street scenes and buses. And there’s something about that snow. There’s a quality that I can’t put my hand my finger on it yet, but it’s something different. And that’s what you’re always looking for, something different to constantly improve as an artist and to tell that story.
Lauren Hansgen [00:11:49] Do you enjoy all the different places you’ve been responding to each one in a different way?
David Buttram [00:11:55] Absolutely. As a matter of fact, when I look back, this probably has something to do with my age. Also, some of the scenes that I might have done 20 years ago, they no longer exist in the city because you constantly tearing down buildings. Homes are different, the neighborhoods are different, the people dress differently than they did. Let’s see, this is 2000, and I can recall starting back in 1978, probably when I did my first oil painting, things are different, you know, so my colors change in my palette. Some of the drawing techniques or styles may be the same. And sometimes I just like to deliberately vary, you know, deliberately control the brush strokes, deliberately control the intensity of the paint just so it won’t be monotonous. I want it to be my work with my signature, but I don’t want all of them to look the same.
Lauren Hansgen [00:12:53] And you think that especially with changing times or whatever it may be, there’s always somewhere new to go, something new to learn, different to try.
David Buttram [00:12:59] Yes. Every time I say, okay, I look at- Maybe if I look at 5 or 10 paints, it’s too much gray, too much gloom. And I go back to the more intense or the raw colors, and I said, oh, it’s too intense. So I just sort of like. It’s like A little dance that I do with them. I look back and sometimes I tell myself, each one of these paintings is like an offspring, not a human being, but each painting, you know, it’s a good thing for an artist to sell a painting. And I’ll just say, see you on down the road, you know, but that’s a part of me, you know, and it’s, you know, you want it to be historic.
Lauren Hansgen [00:13:34] What do you feel has been your most important accomplishment as an artist?
David Buttram [00:13:40] Most important accomplishment as an artist? Well, to be able to right now would be to still be able to paint. And, you know, I think that most artists would like to have their work be recognized and acceptable, not only locally, but regionally. And I’ve sort of, like, branched out a little bit, and I have some success in the Chicago area because some of the scenes are pretty similar. And so people. I won’t even say it, but they’ll purchase a painting thinking it’s a Chicago scene, but it’s really a Cleveland scene, but they don’t have a problem once they find out.
Lauren Hansgen [00:14:27] So I guess along that you said expanding regionally in Chicago. What kind of things have you done to really try and get your work public attention?
David Buttram [00:14:36] Like I said recently, I just started back within the last couple of years. And I know I’ve this thing on the Web, the Internet, the World Wide Web. That’s a new thing, new technology. And I got a few sites that I have my work on there, and one in the Chicago area, and there’s an annual exhibition that they show at the Cleveland- I’m sorry, the Chicago Museum of Art. I missed the deadline this year. You have to make the deadline. Just like you have to show your work, you have to put it out there. And I’m currently trying to do that now.
Lauren Hansgen [00:15:11] Have you ever felt frustrated by challenges in trying to get your work out there that you know, is legitimate and it’s just a matter of getting people to see it?
David Buttram [00:15:21] Not frustrated to the point where I would stop? No, because really, I see my work and I like my work, and I appreciate my work, and I appreciate that God has blessed me. And if the time ever comes where a big hit comes, that’s great. I’m ready either way, you know, and my work moves, you know, slowly. And I got a nice little collection now. You always want to have at least 10 pieces available if the right show comes along. But I still have. There’s a lot that I have to accomplish. It’s probably people I need to meet, because I know if you’re in the right place at the right time, you know, the right people. You can be mediocre, you can be down here, up there, and your work’s going to get over big.
Lauren Hansgen [00:16:10] What is it about that urban scene? And you were saying that, you know, painting neighborhoods and painting people and the way they dress has always changed. Has it always been as interesting?
David Buttram [00:16:21] No, it has not been. As a matter of fact, you asked that. You mentioned something about being discouraged. Scenes have changed. I grew up in the projects as a child. I don’t know if you’re familiar with projects, housing complex. And can I use the word poor? Yeah. Because I come from a large family, eight siblings. And some of the scenes that I would see in the ’70s and the ’80s, maybe the early ’90s, began to fade away. Some of the old buildings would fade away. And things are new. The houses are new, housing, new homes in the inner city. It’s difficult to. And by the way, I do use photography to prepare my sketches and my paintings, and I rely on them. Just couldn’t very well sit there and capture some of these guys back in the day. You can’t capture people. At least I can as an artist. My memory won’t capture movement and, you know, the changes in the moment, but the scenery has changed. This is 2008. And things, the streets don’t look like- The streets of Cleveland don’t look like they looked in the ’80s. And primarily that’s when I was really cranking out quite a few of them. So here we are in a new 2008 millennium changeover and buildings and houses have changed.
Lauren Hansgen [00:17:46] And do you like to think of those earlier works as serving as a connection to that past for people today?
David Buttram [00:17:52] Absolutely. And then the baggy pants and the sagging pants was not a part of that. But now if you look at some of my paintings now, you’ll see that some of the clothes that they wear. The clothing that they wear is different. And it’s a story in itself because the poverty or the blight that was seen in some of those images then is hard to- I’m not saying it’s not there, but I just don’t. I haven’t been able to capture it.
Lauren Hansgen [00:18:19] When you started off talking about the arts, you said that the visual arts appealed to you, but music also was a big thing. And you almost kind of where you knew that you had to be pulled in one main direction and decide to become a visual artist. But I would imagine that music has never stopped being something important. Does it inform your- Do you just need it in your everyday life or does it inform your art as well?
David Buttram [00:18:45] I think when I do art, I need water, I need food. I’m just going to say I need music because I fantasize sometimes, if I was a musician, I would love to play the piano. Don’t have time in my lifetime. Or one of those instruments, the beauty of the violins. And I respect and appreciate music because every time I paint, I’m going to have my CD or DVD and I’m going to be playing my type, which is soft soul, soft jazz or sounds from the ’60s and ’70s Motown. And to meet- And when you see one of my paintings, it’s like I see that’s a part of me. That music is right in there with me. That’s a part of me. Music. So I need music as an inspiration. And it just keeps me in the spirit.
Lauren Hansgen [00:19:41] Well, is there anything else that you would like to talk about?
David Buttram [00:19:46] Not right off. I’m pretty sure as I go, as I leave here, hundreds of things are going to crop up. But at this moment, I guess I’ll quit while I’m even.
Lauren Hansgen [00:19:55] Judy, do you have anything?
Judith MacKeigan [00:19:57] Yeah, there was. Can’t talk with you. There was something you said earlier that struck me and I’m trying to find.
Lauren Hansgen [00:20:06] Out where it was.
Judith MacKeigan [00:20:12] I think you said. You said two things. You said, I’m glad I’m not satisfied with the work, which I thought was really interesting. And I wanted to know if you could maybe expound on that a little bit. And then there was one other thing that you said about art. And of course, now it’s gone. Now I’m doing the same thing. And I’ll probably remember when I go home, go, why didn’t I ask him that? So. But yeah, it’s about, oh, I am now. The other thing was you’re glad you’re not satisfied. I know I’m talking to you back. But also the fact that getting your work out there to people is there. Do you think there’s a certain audience for your work? And what do you wish that people would get from your work? What do you expect people to take away from your work or how do you expect them to interact with it?
David Buttram [00:21:05] Being away for that 10 years when I stopped, I broke contact or ties with the art world. And I’m just trying to get back into the. To the mix, you know, and meet people. Some of the people I haven’t seen in years. Some of the people that might have or may have purchased my work. And this is something that I have to do. And how, in addition to my daily work. I have to find ways to just get back into the art world. I’ve shown out here in Willoughby, that gallery out there, which is a beautiful gallery. Gallery One, but, you know, that’s a different scene than here. And what was the other question?
Judith MacKeigan [00:21:48] Oh, you said, I’m glad I’m not-
David Buttram [00:21:50] Oh, yes, definitely. You know, I think of Picasso. Picasso, if you look at some of his, he went to this abstract stuff and he did some realistic stuff. You know, I wouldn’t want to be- I don’t think- I don’t know if an artist would want to be stuck in the same mode. You have to evolve, and whether you’re going forward or back, you’ve got to change. And I wouldn’t want to- You know, I want people to recognize my work, but I want to see a difference from the beginning to the end. I want to see a contrast and some, you know, all types of varieties of, you know, of my work to- Not just- But most of them are probably going to be inner city works. Maybe. I don’t know. And I’m looking for anything new that might come into my head. I don’t want to just always draw black people up. Some of my recent pieces, you won’t. It’s not. Well, this. I think this goes up to 2005. But the last painting I did was predominantly white people in Cleveland, downtown. Because it’s really light and shadows and color that I’m looking for. You know, it doesn’t matter what the ratio. Tried to go to that west side mark, but it’s all kind of color down there. I mean, with the fruit and the people. But I just have not come up with the right image for me to put on canvas. But I definitely want to. I’m open for something new to inspire me, but I don’t feel like I’ve completed the cycle that I’m in right now as far as getting my work out for me to move on to something else.
Judith MacKeigan [00:23:37] So the person that would be interested in your work, they’re gonna. You mentioned about Chicago.
Lauren Hansgen [00:23:43] People thought, oh, look, that’s Chicago.
Judith MacKeigan [00:23:45] And then they found out it’s Cleveland. So people are drawn to your work because they see something familiar in it.
David Buttram [00:23:50] You think, yes, yes. And that and the quality of the work. But it’s not just black people that purchase my work. If that’s. I’m not trying to say that, because-
Lauren Hansgen [00:24:07] No matter who’s in those scenes, there’s still something universal, whether it’s Black children or white children. If it’s kids playing outside, that’s something anybody can relate to.
Judith MacKeigan [00:24:16] And if you’re a city dweller, if you live in a city, a midwestern city like Chicago, and I’ve often thought of Chicago as being kind of a big Cleveland, you know, in a way.
David Buttram [00:24:24] And you have people that buy paintings for that particular scene may be relevant to their life. Or a doctor may say, oh, this reminds me of back in. When I was a child. Or they just. You got some people who collect art. And I appreciate anyone that’s willing to invest in a painting, you know, And I think that most of the pieces that I have done in the past are probably located in the offices or right here, the downtown area.
Judith MacKeigan [00:24:53] You know, you mentioned you’re very involved in your church. Do you do work that reflects that?
David Buttram [00:25:00] I’m sorry, I didn’t hear.
Judith MacKeigan [00:25:01] You said you’re very involved in your church. Do you do work that reflects that? Do you do?
David Buttram [00:25:06] See, yes. Two of the paintings that I did in the past were actually preacher preaching in the height of his sermon in the congregation. And actually, I’m a deacon at my church. And when I go there, I go there to worship and to serve God. And my faith in God is strong. And it really- I don’t know if this is good or bad. I don’t go around and advertise. Nobody would know I’m an artist unless they read it. I like people to find out, either through the media or somebody else. They see it on the wall. Oh, I didn’t know. I like to hear people say, well, I didn’t know you were an artist. You know, why didn’t you say? You know, I say, well, that’s just the way it is. You know, I like to try to keep it on the low, but on the other hand, I want my work to. Every artist wants their work to be seen and to be accepted.
Lauren Hansgen [00:25:55] All right. Okay, sounds great. Thank you so much.
David Buttram [00:25:58] Hey, give me a tape. Give me a copy of that tape.
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