Abstract
Barbara Morgan of the Shaker Lakes Nature Center discusses the history of the Shaker Lakes; the history of Center; and the history of the Cleveland suburb of Shaker Heights, Ohio. Morgan's involvement with the Shaker Lakes Nature Center was inspired by her desire to educate students and other citizens about environmental issues. Interview contains biographical details about Ms. Morgan and details about programming at Shaker Lakes Nature Center, as well as insights on educational pedagogy, public history and tourism.
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Interviewee
Morgan, Barbara (interviewee)
Interviewer
Bifulco, Anthony (interviewer);Sack, Mark (participant)
Project
Shaker Lakes Nature Center
Date
6-30-2006
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
62 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Barbara Morgan Interview, 30 June 2006" (2006). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 902004.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/239
Transcript
Anthony Bifulco [00:00:01] Hi, this is an interview with Barbara Wachs Morgan. It’s Mark Sack and Tony Bifulco doing the interviewing. It’s Friday, June 30th, approximately at 11:00 AM and the first question we have is when and where were you born?
Barbara Morgan [00:00:19] I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, in … 1943.
Anthony Bifulco [00:00:29] When did you move into this area?
Barbara Morgan [00:00:31] We moved here in the summer of 1989.
Anthony Bifulco [00:00:40] How did you get involved with the Nature Center?
Barbara Morgan [00:00:45] Well, my training has been in biology and teaching. And when we moved here, my husband had just become the chair at Cleveland State. And we knew we wanted to live in Shaker Heights area. Shaker Heights or Cleveland Heights. And we basically, we were house hunting. We came upon the Nature Center before we had bought a house and we liked so much the Nature Center, we decided to find a house as close to here as possible. And that’s why we found the perfect spot on Warrington. And what actually when we saw the quotes that were carved into the boardwalk, the railings on the boardwalk on the All People’s Trail. I, I just, I’m a poetry lover. I’ve collected it and, and my whole life and I’m a calligrapher now and I combine it. I just, I saw that first Rachel Carson quote, “Those who dwell among the beauties and the mysteries of the earth are never alone or weary of life.” And when I saw that at the entrance to the trail, I thought, this is the place for me. So I came over and just appeared at the desk and wanted to volunteer. And I started into docent training about five months later because they didn’t have a class at that time in the summertime. So that’s how I got started here. And I just kind of threw myself into it and basically came every day and, and led as many walks as I could lead or was asked to lead and eventually in probably less than a year, became the volunteer coordinator where I assigned walks to whoever of the docents were the special specialized in birds or wildflowers or whatever. But then I led half the walks because I enjoyed it so much.
Anthony Bifulco [00:02:39] How did you get interested in nature, as you said, immediately you were drawing to the Nature Center.
Barbara Morgan [00:02:44] Yes.
Anthony Bifulco [00:02:46] Where did that originate?
Barbara Morgan [00:02:47] Yes. It originated, let’s see, in- Well, when I was in elementary school, I had a very good science teacher in the fourth grade and he was- Mr. Smalley was his name. And he eventually went on to TV in Cincinnati area. But he really did turn me on to it. But it was more than that. I had a kind of a tragic happening. My father was killed in an auto accident and I was in the car in the fourth grade as well. And my dad was very interested in sports and nature and photography and we. So I think I was immersed in it with him fishing and those kinds of things. But I also, after he died, I sort of, I didn’t tell anybody, but I made this, this idea with myself that I was going to- I didn’t want to talk too much about his death with my mom and the family, but I, in my own mind, here I am, a nine year old, decided that I was going to learn everything I could about nature and the birds and the trees and all these things. And I was going to be the best shortstop ever because he had me in sort of spring training. And I actually did this. I, without even telling anyone or maybe even realizing it myself, I, I went on to become this great athlete in college. I played shortstop all through the years and majored in biology. And it taught me two things. One, that children know and are thinking a lot more than you think they are when they’re nine years old and helped raise our two boys with that realization. But also just the whole wonderful thing can start when you’re a child. And, and that’s why I think it’s important places like the Nature Center to get these little ones really interested in nature. And it’s a lifelong thing with them.
Anthony Bifulco [00:04:43] You said you went on to college, majored in biology and then you taught biology.
Barbara Morgan [00:04:50] I actually I have a Ohio teaching certificate. And then. And well, they, they were trying to get me to go into med school, but I said one. And we were. My husband and I got married right out of college and so we ended up going off to graduate school and I told my professor just one in graduate school. So I went up, actually it was Harvard at the time and, and ended up working in hospital labs because I was very- There were a couple interviews I had and they wanted me to teach. This is all off the point, but they wanted me to teach, you know, coach and teach and all the stuff that I wasn’t, I didn’t think qualified for like teaching math seventh graders. So anyway, I ended up working in hospital labs because I never thought I was that great at lab work. And it was a challenge and I liked the challenge. And so I worked there and in the labs at Harvard and also University of Chicago. But my teaching came from- Well, having had all the student teaching, but mostly I was a stay-at-home mom when our kids were little and I was the den leader, I was the everything. So I took care of not only our two boys but all the kids in the neighborhood. So I kind of had my own little, shall we say, nature classes with those kids very informally. And that prepared me for leading a bunch of little tots around the Nature Center.
Anthony Bifulco [00:06:13] You mentioned when you moved into the Cleveland area in 1989, you had your sights set on either living in Shaker Heights or Cleveland Heights. Would you explain why?
Barbara Morgan [00:06:24] Well, because we knew that they were very wonderful neighborhoods, diverse neighborhoods. We had not so recently, but we had lived in Africa for two years, from ’78 through ’80, in northern Nigeria. Kano, Nigeria, when my husband was helping start a sociology department there. When we had come back to Columbus, we lived in Worthington, which was, frankly, not diverse enough for us, but had very good school systems. And since our boys had been away for two years, that was primary. But we wanted to be in a really good, diverse neighborhood. We wanted to be close to downtown, all the cultural things on this side of town. And also my husband had had very serious eye problems, which developed in Africa. Glaucoma, which was not very treatable. And he’d had some surgeries. So the idea of being close to either good public transportation or the rapid was important to us. But even more so he wouldn’t have to drive against the sun if he’d lived on the left, the West Side. But mostly it was the diversity of the neighborhoods that drew us to this area.
Anthony Bifulco [00:07:40] You mentioned living in Africa overseas with your husband and your family and your kids. Did you have any significant experiences with nature in Africa?
Barbara Morgan [00:07:50] With nature? Well, most of our experiences, I say- I always say I went over there as a biologist, and I came back a sociologist because it was so fascinating living there. But I did work for one year. The first year I worked, I helped set up a darkroom. I had darkroom skills from at home in Bloomington, Indiana, which is where we lived before we went to Africa. My husband taught at IU. I did have these darkroom skills. So I was always out photographing people, mostly because it was so interesting, but also some of the flora and fauna. We had a big yard. And then the second year there, I got. I was talked into being a demonstrator, they called it, which was like a lab assistant here. And so I did. I was second in charge of these classes two or three times a week where we would go out in the field, and I would have to try to relearn. Well, learn and relearn, because, of course, we’re not in the temperate climate, so the trees and all were all different. So I had to learn the scientific names because people were calling them by Hausa names, you know, Yoruba names. It was quite interesting trying to fit this all in to my frame of reference. And also, the boys developed quite a good butterfly collection with my help because I had my- Mr. Smalley, my fourth grade science teacher, was very big into butterfly collecting. And I must admit, I raised them from caterpillars. You know, I got all the special leaves and all the rest of it. Now, my sons never did that, but when we were in Africa, the butterflies are different, so that we did collect them and I showed them how to mount them and all this stuff. And we actually, when we left the university, asked for our collection. So I always thought that was. That was. It was very amateurish in my mind, but they thought it was pretty good. So maybe they didn’t have many butterflies. Oh, can I- Can I- Can I add one thing? When I got back from Nigeria, my professor at Wittenberg, I went to Wittenberg in Springfield, Ohio, called me and asked if I would come back to campus and give a lecture. No, she called it a seminar for on the flora and fauna of West Africa. And I said, oh, sure. And so I set about researching everything. Because when you’re living in Nigeria and you have two little kids, you don’t spend a lot of time researching things. You just sort of absorb everything, photograph everything, and then sort of kind of revisit it when you get back home because the press of living is so interesting and intense. So anyway, I was doing this research and for one thing, I found out that poison ivy, that the mango tree is in the same family as poison ivy. I learned that. I knew it was something strange because my kid, the youngest one, Steve, broke out in this big rash, which I thought was poison ivy. And the doctors there didn’t call it that. They called it something else. It turned out, it’s in my research for this talk. It turned out that poison ivy, that the mango tree is in the same family as poison ivy. And so that was probably. I’m sure that was his rash. But anyway, I looked up all these trees and. And then I looked through my 1,200 slides and, and found pictures of various trees and. And, well, we had chameleons that would be on the bushes outside our house. And so I was all prepared because I had to be good. I was- You know, I graduated with honor, with high honors from the school. So I go back and I think it’s going to be a little table like here with 15 people here. It was like in the new science lecture hall. And There were probably 125 people there. And I’m a little nervous with public speaking when I start. To this day, my hardest class in college was speech. But I was really nervous because here I was back at my alma mater, standing up on a stage with hundreds of people standing, staring at me. And I realized I didn’t have a whole lot to say about the flora and fauna because I was more interested in the people in a. You know, more than the flora and fauna. So anyway, it was an interesting experience and I was, I was probably scared to death giving that talk. But- So I wanted to add that. But. But I did learn a lot of. About what I had seen there. And there are lots of things that. I mean, we went on field trips in Kano. They’re different than field trips here. You get on the bus, you look for petrol. And we never got on our first field trip. We get on the bus, we’re driving around looking for gas and there’s babu. Petrol. No petrol at any of the gas stations. So he had to come back because it was time for their noonday prayers. It was a Muslim city and so the field trip had to be rescheduled. So everything in Africa goes at a slightly slower and more difficult pace, shall we say. But we did grasshopper collecting and marking. So I did a lot of natural things. But I was always glad I was the assistant and not the head teacher because it’s a challenge to go to another, not just country, but another continent.
Anthony Bifulco [00:13:25] You did mention again, more on your background.
Barbara Morgan [00:13:28] Sure.
Anthony Bifulco [00:13:29] In inspiring an interesting future. You did first make mention of your father.
Barbara Morgan [00:13:34] Yes.
Anthony Bifulco [00:13:36] It kind of all started from him and your fourth grade teacher.
Barbara Morgan [00:13:40] Yes.
Anthony Bifulco [00:13:40] You mentioned what kind of involvement did your father have with nature?
Barbara Morgan [00:13:45] He was- He died when I was nine. So it’s, it’s- I don’t really know all the specifics. I know he was very- An officer in the Isaac Walton League. He was very much into conservation. He organized things like the local fishing derby. And I still have this picture of little three-year-old me sitting with a fishing pole and a dog that appeared in the Cincinnati Enquirer, the big paper. So. But mostly he just- He- He was an electrician and he had this. He and my mother neither went to college. They were born in 1901, but they had this tremendous interest in education. And so all three of my siblings were 18 boys, brothers, 18 to 13 when I was born. And we all went to a specialized high school, Walnut Hills High School, which was. Would be called like a magnet school, a public school. But you had to be really pretty smart to get in. And it also was very diverse, which was wonderful. Everybody, it was elitist and everybody was smart, but there were all sorts and varieties of people there which made life much more interesting and probably influenced a lot of our future ideas and plans. But I would say just being with my dad, fishing, you know, hiking around, he didn’t have much time because he was on call a lot. But my mother loved poetry and I became a poetry lover as well. So, you know, your parents really do influence you and in known and unknown ways.
Anthony Bifulco [00:15:21] And then your fourth grade teacher, anything you remember specifically?
Barbara Morgan [00:15:23] Yes, Mr. Smalley. Well, he, he was- He had a technique where he would dictate things and we would copy them down and make little notebooks. I remember doing that in pencil and I remember doing that as a way. And I- That carried me on through college. I learned best when I would copy things down in preparation for a test. Just the act of writing it down printed things in my mind. But he was a very hands-on teacher in that. Well, the thing I remember most, of course, are the butterflies. But that was just one of many things. But to have a whole room full of little caterpillars and be feeding them and all that. And I always said, I don’t know that if he instilled this in me or not, but I would actually go up to that drugstore and ask. I’d like some carbon tet, please. And in those days they give you a little carbon tetrachloride to make a killing jar. It horrifies me now, but it would just put it in with cotton and then I would actually kill some of these butterflies. But it was very scientific. I would mount them and I had all these great boxes and stuff, but I didn’t like that so much. So I would raise these caterpillars and take good care of them and walk a mile down for the zebra swallowtails to get the special pawpaw leaves. But then I would mount a few of them, but I’d let most of them go because I didn’t like that whole concept. The other thing was he must have influenced me in rocks and minerals because I started taking a rock and mineral class at the Natural History Museum every Saturday for at least a year and a half or more. And with about five of my little boyfriends, I didn’t like anything having to do with traditional girl type things, dolls and all the rest of it. I was into sports with the boys and that’s why I became a very good athlete. I learned how to. In my day, girls didn’t really know how to play basketball, but I did because I. And even though I’m, you know, five foot one, two, I was really good in college because I could do things that they didn’t know how to do. But anyway, this little boy, this group of boys and I. I think there were probably only two of. Two of them and me. We went every Saturday, took the city buses, made a couple transfers to Cincinnati and took these classes where we received samples of the rocks and minerals. And to this day I have them. They went through my son. One son really liked them. It was his collection, still mine. So I think that was probably brought about by Mr. Smalley. And I also remember my dad being an electrician one time. We must have been studying, obviously, electricity. And we. My dad actually took apart our doorbell and, and we mounted it with the two of us. We mounted it on a board and we had it all fixed up so I could take it into class and ring this doorbell. And he died, not, you know, that year. And we didn’t have a doorbell for the rest of my growing up days. We just knocked. I always thought that was funny. And he ended up Mr. Smalley on TV in later years and became a quite well known science instructor. So he was very important in ways I probably don’t recall. But I definitely know the butterflies and moss. I know lots about those things and the rocks and minerals.
Anthony Bifulco [00:19:01] Now, you did say when you moved to the Cleveland area, in Shaker Heights, the Nature Center drew your attention right away?
Barbara Morgan [00:19:08] Yes.
Anthony Bifulco [00:19:09] What was it about the Nature Center exactly, that drew your attention to it? [crosstalk]
Barbara Morgan [00:19:15] I think I didn’t just stumble on it, now that I think about it. I think the realtor, who was connected to a faculty person at CSU, she told us there was a Nature Center in Shaker. She, she actually lived in Shaker, and she didn’t tell us where it was because sometimes it’s a little hard to find. So we were driving around looking for it and then, then we did in fact find it. Well, it was like I noticed here, the yards weren’t very big. At least the, the houses that we could afford, the yards were not very big. And I, I think I’m always looking when in past places where we’ve lived, looking for nice natural areas. And I was kind of stunned to see such a beautiful area right in the middle of Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights. And I didn’t know then about the, the fact that it’s owned by the city of Cleveland and rented for a dollar a year by Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights. So it’s a great partnership, and I liked that. I liked the whole idea of partnerships. But initially it was just the beauty of the place to drive in here. You know, it’s always a strange feeling going to new cities and all. And it was sort of a dividing point in our lives in that our last son was just graduating from high school and off to college. And here we were starting this new phase in a new city. And I just came upon this. It was in. Must have been in the springtime. So it was extra beautiful here. And just immediately fell in love with it. And then to walk out on the All Peoples Trail, and the first thing I see, I run across is that poem or that quote from Rachel Carson. And I realized I’ve been collecting poetry and handwriting books and all the rest of it ever since college. So I knew those poems. In fact, I knew almost all of the eight quotes that are in there. And that just sort of solidified my whole idea that I wanted to live near this place.
Anthony Bifulco [00:21:31] And then you said you got pretty immediately involved. Would you be able to tell us about your involvement throughout the 1990s?
Barbara Morgan [00:21:39] ’90S? Yes. Well, I’m still very involved. I just led a walk this past Monday, today’s Friday, Monday, with the Sight Center, which was one of my favorite kind of walks. But as far as back in. In 1990, well, between the summer of ’89, when I presented myself for duty, there wasn’t a whole lot that they told me to wait for the class, which was disappointing to me because I had, you know, I didn’t. I wanted to start right away. But of course, not everyone realizes there aren’t as many volunteers now as there used to be in the old days, since everyone is working. And so I guess that was just the system they had. I’ve told them since, hey, whenever you get a volunteer that just appears, put them to work immediately doing something because they really almost. They wouldn’t have lost me. But I got involved at Fairhill Center for Aging, which was then called F.I.F.E. Fairhill Institute for- I forget now. But anyway, it’s Fairhill Center for Aging. I got all involved working over there, volunteering over there with some of their senior programs. And so I got a call, like right after Christmas that docent training from the Nature Center, the docent training was going to start. And I said, are you still interested? And I said, well, yes, I’m interested, but I’m, you know, I had all these other commitments, but of course I was interested. I was just tired of waiting. And so I went to the training. All fall I had come over here. I didn’t really. And some parts of me are shy by nature. And I didn’t really go back and talk to people. I just walked the trails every day. I still come almost every day. And so I started the classes and I think there were- I think it was weekly classes, maybe a couple hours for six weeks. I think it was- It could have been eight weeks. I think it was six weeks. And we basically practiced, you know, learned all about the psychology of working with children and then we learned techniques and there had lots of little equipment and things that, that, that we didn’t- That was kept- That were kept in a docent closet so we didn’t have to have our own equipment. I found shortly thereafter it was much easier to have your own. So I just made all the things so I could keep them at home. But I went to these classes. And then before the last class, the nature nursery teacher needed a volunteer to help her. And so I said, well, I’ll help. I don’t know if I’m qualified enough, but- So I traipsed over there for- And helped her with the littlest kids. And then it turned out she was going on vacation the next, like two weeks later. And so since I was so experienced in her mind by that time, I took over the class with the help of this assistant who had been in there. So that. So I sort of felt like I was thrown in the fire right away, which was good because unlike the other docents in my. I think there were six of us, or maybe only four. It was a small. I think it started out with six. I was the. I was really the only one that was. How can I say it? Had the qualifications, the biology background. Whereas a lot of the docents do not have those qualifications, but just have the love of nature, which is the most important thing. But I kind of had both and they knew that and I wasn’t, you know, so I was pretty good at it right from the get go. And then I- Although I do remember that since my training was more classical training that, you know, I knew the names of the trees and all the Latin names of the wildflowers, but I had to relearn those. When I was married, marrying a sociologist with children, I couldn’t, you know, I had to learn common names and- But anyway, I wasn’t real, even though I’d led all these walks and I practically. Well, I was a leader of a large five class back in Bloomington Cooperative Preschool is what it was. I was the secretary of it, and so I had a lot of experience with little children. I really didn’t think some of these techniques were going to work. I can remember, you know, squatting down and acting like a bird and flapping my wings, but I, hey, I thought, I’ll give it a go. And I- But I still didn’t think this was gonna work. And then I found out this works quite well. And so then I kind of, God, how can I experience with more experience? Since whenever they asked me to do a walk, I was not real shy. I would just say, of course. So I was here all the time leading the walks, and I learned. So not only did I use the separate techniques I learned here, but over the years I developed my own. And I’m a very creative, I guess, person. And pretty soon they didn’t even ask me, you know, they never really asked me what I was doing. They just got good feedback. So I pretty much had the freedom to develop my own kind of walks because I had, I guess, the experience or, I don’t know, common sense. And so that’s kind of the way that it developed. But there was a definite docent training program and we did lots of walks one year, I know I had to list them all for some. Some reason, and it was like a hundred. And I think it was like 122 or 150 walks that we did. And when I calculated it all up, I’d done over half of them. So I’ve done a lot of walks over the, well, 16 years now.
Anthony Bifulco [00:27:09] So you’ve done these walks with mainly small children, but also any other- [crosstalk]
Barbara Morgan [00:27:16] Yeah, yes. I started with- The docent groups were mostly preschoolers, and there were some occasional older kids, you know, six to seven year olds and even some bigger ones. I did once, did a group of high schoolers from the Cleveland Clinic who all had some sort of psychiatric issues. And I was a little nervous about that group. And whenever there was a group that was a little different, I would always be assigned that one or I’d sign myself because they were confident. And I knew I could think of something that was appropriate. And so- But I started off, I would say, with all the youngster, the young ones and the ones that acting like birds and all that would really go over big. And then I would say we did get some older groups. I was always kind of trying to get older groups. In fact, I started this program on my own. Groups would- I had friends from the little Unitarian church I belong to, I had- I had friends who were working in nursing homes or, you know, things like that. And they would ask me if I could. And I would lead church groups. And so these were adult groups. I sort of started with the real small ones and, and sort of graduated, shall I say, to. To the older, older groups and found that, you know, I liked all ages. And although I must say, I. To this day, I particularly like the under fives, the over 80s, and the various challenged groups. So. But. But my idea was, I don’t think- And I would be asked to- I don’t know how the word spread that I guess I was an eager nature walk leader and so I would be asked to do things for the Cleveland Heights. What did the adult education that was up in the building before it was expanded. So I would give little lectures on Shaker history and the Nature Center, or I would call it something like how the. How the lakes were formed and how they were saved and what they offered to all of us. And Shaker history, we now have a program of where the Shaker Historical Museum and the Nature Center kind of work together and give programs at each other’s facilities. But back in 1990, that wasn’t really done. So I decided, well, maybe I should do that. And I read up as much as I could about both places and talked to the director over there. And I created my own little program and I call it my Shaker Chronology. And I have. So I always, on my walks, give out handouts and I have a Shaker Chronology here that I put together. And now it’s much more formalized and. And then Laura Gooch wrote the book and all of that, but I kind of did that on my own because I. It was something I enjoyed. And so in the mid. I would say it was about ’96 or ’97, I was going around, like, to Oasis and I would give this talk and I did hear. Do you know what OASIS is? It’s a- It was a- I’m not- I think it’s still going on, but I don’t know. It’s a sort of a group of seniors who are retired but still actively interested in all sorts of things. And they would meet in the meeting room of the old Kaufmann’s, which was then- What was it before it was Kaufmann’s? May Company. May Company and- And they got gathered together, I don’t know, every week or maybe every couple weeks, and had speakers. So they somehow heard about me. So I traipsed off over there and then- And they liked it. So then they- Then the part- They had another group that met in Parma. So I drove to Parma and I gave this thing and they would give me, you know, like an honorarium, $50. So I decided, well, I’ll collect this for the Nature Center. And then I- Because then I started thinking, I want to get more people out on this All People’s Trail, because it’s actually an All People’s Trail. It’s made for, you know, wheelchairs and, you know, all disabled groups of various kinds. And just- And it wasn’t, in my mind, used enough. So I decided to create this program called Tales and Trails. T-A-L-E-S and Trails. And my idea was, since I had friends at Willow Park and various who- Actually, the person who worked there and at other nursing homes now is the activity director at the site center. And she. So I kind of knew what these different populations like to do, but I also knew how hard it was to get, you know, six or eight wheelchairs in a van and transport them here. It’s a lot of effort. So I got this idea that what you need to do is appeal, is get over there and appeal to the staff, who are actually the ones, and get them to know you as a person and know what kind of a walk you would give. So. And at that time, I was also involved with Fair Hill. They had Benjamin, Benjamin Rose. I guess it was daycare, adult daycare, and various other things in that building. So they were always asking me to come over and do programs. So I was doing all this kind of on my own. And I was giving two walk. Two walks a year for Fair Hill, which I would take all over the city, but mostly the Nature Center. So anyway, I decided that I should do this, get more people involved to come here. So I would offer four programs like walk, like talks there, walks here, poetry, and what was the other thing? Crafts. Because I’m very crafty person. And so I made this flyer and all this. And then I thought, well, I would take donations and then I could bring all. I could bring the money to the Nature Center. So this was probably about 1998, 2000. I was setting up this plan and actually they’ve adopted it now with the Nature Center. They’ve rolled it into the Nature Center programs and they do offer it, but not as much as I’d like because I don’t get as many of these groups as I would like. But that. So that is an. That’s sort of an example of what I’ve tried to do to get More, more persons of, you know, over the. Well, I’m, you know, 62 now, but, but the senior seniors out on the trail and the other thing I would do is I would thank them. I would go to the, to the nursing homes and we would, you know, chit chat a little. And before my so called presentation, I had a presentation. But I always told those groups if they had a question to just stop me, raise their hand because I knew they would forget by the end of the thing their question. And this will tell you exactly why I like to do this. I was at Keith Lee house and it was a group of the nursing home. Sometimes I would talk to assisted livings and sometimes we would have crafts afterwards. We talk about butterflies and birds and then we’d make little things and they had something to take back to their rooms. That was kind of a fun thing. But this one was a little talk with the nursing home persons and it wasn’t a, it wasn’t a craft session. It was just kind of like a talk about the shakers reminiscing, that kind of thing. And I had probably about 15 or 16 people in this room and I started my. I had a microphone, you know, clipped onto me and all this. And I started my thing and I had said if you have a question or a comment to just raise your hand or say it and we’ll stop and talk. Because I wanted it to be informal and yet have some structure. This woman was sitting in the front row and she started laughing. And I was talking about the lily pond, the five Shaker lakes and the marsh used to be a lily pond and also a place where people would ice skate. And I would ask, do you remember that? And then this woman starts laughing and she said, oh, I remember I was skating once with my father and the ice kind of cracked and my foot went in, but I was all right. She talked for about a minute or so and then I went on with my presentation. And then at the end of the whole program, one nurse came up to me and said, you know, Barb, that was the first time this woman had spoken in a year and a half. And that just made me think, wow, this is really cool. You know, so it’s th
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