Abstract
Bill Spoon was born in Alabama in 1942 and came to Cleveland in 1960, becoming involved in the city's music scene. He is the founder of The Soul Notes singing group. This 2009 interview discusses his childhood in Alabama and his life in Cleveland, focusing on the community of African-American musicians in Cleveland in the 1960s and 1970s that he was a part of. He ties in his discussion of these artists and their music with the broader issue of racism, which African-Americans in the city faced at this time, also commenting on the nature of race relations during his childhood in Alabama in the 1940s and 1950s. At various points throughout the interview, he compares the artistic and business aspects of African-American music of his era to the rap and R & B of more recent times, impressed by the business acumen of the newer generations of musicians but disappointed by the often negative messages of their songs.
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Interviewee
Spoon, Bill (interviewee)
Interviewer
Aritonovich, Dana (interviewer)
Project
Rock and Roll
Date
11-21-2009
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
102 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Bill Spoon Interview, 2009" (2009). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 200001.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/24
Transcript
Bill Spoon [00:00:01] The legal name is William Bell, professionally known as Bill Spoon. I reside in Augusta, Georgia, and what I do now is I'm retired and I still record music, write songs, produce songs.
Dana Aritonovich [00:00:26] Okay. Okay. And excuse me, what year were you born and where were you born?
Bill Spoon [00:00:36] In 1942 in the city of Bessemer, State of Alabama.
Dana Aritonovich [00:00:46] Okay. And excuse me, when did you. When did you come to Ohio from Alabama?
Bill Spoon [00:00:53] I moved to Cleveland in 1960.
Dana Aritonovich [00:00:58] Okay, so tell me a little bit about your life in Alabama.
Bill Spoon [00:01:06] I grew up in- I grew up in the area that Jefferson County, which is known as, which was known as the Pittsburgh of the South. And in that county, there were several cities that comprised of Birmingham being the largest, Bessemer being the second. My childhood was surrounded by people in the music industry that became part of the music industry. Let me just put a little data here. Dana, while I'm talking, you pronounce your name Dana or Donna.
Dana Aritonovich [00:01:52] It's Donna. It's spelled like Dana, but it's Donna.
Bill Spoon [00:01:55] Okay, Bear with me just one more minute. Okay? I have a little something that I probably would make it a lot easier for you if I just told you my journey.
Dana Aritonovich [00:02:11] Okay.
Bill Spoon [00:02:25] I'm gonna start again with the answers that you initially-
Dana Aritonovich [00:02:31] Okay.
Bill Spoon [00:02:32] My name is William Bell Weatherspoon, a.k.a. Bill Spoon. Born [...] 1942, in Bessemer, Alabama. Like many of my contemporaries, Hank Ballard, Alex Bradford, Andre Williams, Eddie Levert, Eddie Kendricks, Paul Williams, Dennis Edwards, Frederick "Shorty" Long, Jimmy Jones, Barbara Joyce Long, Roger Hatcher, Frederick Knight, Billy Collier, Jesse and Richard Fisher. We were all products of Jefferson County, which consists of Birmingham, Bessemer, Fayetteville, all that.
Dana Aritonovich [00:03:22] Okay.
Bill Spoon [00:03:25] I moved from Bessemer to Cleveland, 1960. I performed with Richard Fisher, David Peoples, Walter, Ricky Dennison, the group. We didn't have a name at the time. One of the former group, we just formed on various street corners and had different venues in the Cleveland area. Okay, that was the thing to do at the time. I had got- I had dropped out of school, so I was no longer def. When I moved to Cleveland. So I got drafted. Okay. I went into the military in 1962, where I also performed in the military choir. And I had my own groups that week. And I performed on Weekend '65. I was released from the military. I returned to Cleveland where we formed the group the Soul Notes. Okay, Soul Notes was a group that was. Consisted of four people. Myself, John Berry, Ricky Danielson, Leroy Eli. We recorded several songs from 1965 to 1969 with Way Out Records in Cleveland. After '65, after '69, actually, we broke up and I went solo from that point on. In the early 1972, I went to Los Angeles. I was able to secure a recording contract with Polydor Records and a writer's contract with Chappelle Music. Did several projects there, none of which were very, very successful. But we did have some success. And from that point on I returned to Cleveland in '73 and the music industry for many other music career for me as a performer somewhat ended. I continued to write, but I took a full-time employment in my field, forensic investigator for the department. I moved back to Los Angeles and I became an investigator for the Department of Coroner. And I stayed in that position from 1981 until I retired to Opaque. Okay. However, during those years, I continued to record and release records on different labels. I've always worked with people from my Cleveland connection, which was basically Lou Raglan and John Wilson. We've always collaborated on different projects and we still do as a date now. I'll stop and let you ask me what you want me.
Dana Aritonovich [00:06:51] Okay. Okay. No, that was, that was very helpful. I was actually hoping to get kind of a timeline like that. So that, that's. That's very good. Thank you. So you moved to Cleveland when you were about 18. What was the first. I'm sorry. Okay, what was. I mean, clearly there is going to be a culture shock. What was the first kind of major difference that you noticed when you came from Alabama to Cleveland in 1960?
Bill Spoon [00:07:19] Well, actually, the only difference that I saw at that particular time was that schools were integrated.
Dana Aritonovich [00:07:27] Okay.
Bill Spoon [00:07:28] Segregated system in Alabama. Other than that, that wasn't that much of a culture shock because we basically stayed within inner city, which was, you know, the Black community. So I didn't really see anything that wasn't happening in the country overall at that particular time. We just had, you know, some problems in the country that just wasn't nice and that was. Didn't matter where you were. It was the same, basically.
Dana Aritonovich [00:08:01] And, and what neighborhoods in Cleveland did you live in?
Bill Spoon [00:08:04] I lived in the Mount Pleasant area of Cleveland. Okay. I. I lived on 118th in Kinsman and later moved to what is known as Miles Heights. Okay. On East 104th and Tarkington. Okay.
Dana Aritonovich [00:08:22] And did your whole family move up here with you or was it just you?
Bill Spoon [00:08:26] Well, I moved initially just myself, but I- After I got out of the army, I was married and my wife myself moved, stayed in Cleveland and have two kids that still live in Cleveland and an ex wife that lives.
Dana Aritonovich [00:08:46] Okay. And when you were still in Alabama you mentioned that you were always surrounded by people who were in the music industry.
Bill Spoon [00:08:55] Yes. basically, growing up, there was not too many things that a Black youth, especially a male youth, could look forward to doing, because again, we was in a segregated society. And basically all of the kids, kids that I was in school with, we wind up going to college and we find ourselves taking the same general courses for education. So somewhere down the line, you have to stop and think that If I had 266 kids in my class that graduated with me that were full of five major high schools in the Jefferson County area, and each one of those schools had about the sAMe number of graduates in 1959. And a great portion of about 50% from each school attended the Black colleges that were local. And we were all taking the sAMe courses. So that's when I looked at what I wanted to do and I went a different direction. I stayed with music, but professionally I went into the mortuary science field.
Dana Aritonovich [00:10:01] Okay, so what's the earliest type of music you remember hearing?
Bill Spoon [00:10:08] The earliest type?
Dana Aritonovich [00:10:10] Mm.
Bill Spoon [00:10:11] Well, first of all, it was gospel because we all grew up in the gospel church. My next door neighbor as a kid was Alex Bradford. I don't know if you were fAMiliar with Alex Bradford. He was one of the primary gospel singers, recording gospel singers. He eventually wound up in ChICAgo. So that was the first form of music was gospel. And by growing up in the South, because the radio was very limited as to what we heard. So during the week we had a local station that played the local R&B music. And on weekends we had a country-western station that was powerful enough to come out of Tennessee and the surrounding areas. And that was the only music we heard on Sundays. Basically Randy out of Tennessee. And he would play a variety of songs. He would play some. He would play some of what was known then as rock and roll and Black music, as it was, as it was called at that time. And some country-western, real country-western. So those are the type of things that we heard as kids. And if you look at some of the people that I have mentioned, you will find that a combination of sounds in their music, Commodores, some of The Temptations' songs had both the country, gospel, R&B, and blues-type of ingredients in the music. Because that's what we as writers and producers, as we later became. That's what the sound is. So you don't get away from.
Dana Aritonovich [00:12:12] And so. Excuse me, what do you remember about the early days when Elvis started becoming popular?
Bill Spoon [00:12:24] It was again, was not a good time for Black artists during that particular time, because what Record companies would do if they heard a song that a Black artist had recorded, they would try and find a white artist to cover it. They found that the white audience, if they were allowed to, could relate to what Black artists was doing. So Elvis just happened to come out of an area where he spent a great deal of time with a Black. older Black guy who taught him guitar, not so much a singer, I thought a lot of people didn't, but I thought he had. He was a fantastic vocalist, he could interpret really well. But what he also interpreted was Black people was doing body wise with dancing because white artists didn't dance at that time. So that made a difference. And he was singing songs that. His first major hit, Hound Dog, had been recorded in the '50s by a Black artist. It was just a piggyback of what was happening. You know, Little Richard was a major artist and were selling records. But they would take his music and try and get Pat Boone to do Little Richard’s music, which didn't work very well, but they tried it in. So it was a very biased and prejudiced type of situation. Situation for musicians and artists. During the '50s and '60s, Black artists were restricted to basically Black community. And Black radio got very little, very little attention outside of those things.
Dana Aritonovich [00:14:12] And what other artists do you remember hearing on the radio at that time when you were still living in the South? And anybody who made a big impression on you?
Bill Spoon [00:14:24] You know, not really. Hank Ballard. Hank Ballard was probably the one that stuck out the most because he grew up in Bessemer. My mother went to school with him, so I knew him personally. When the Midnighters became big, quite naturally, I was partial to all of his music. And The "5" Royales was another male group because you didn't have Black male artists that you could pattern yourself at. But they didn't allow that to happen. If it was a male artist who had anything that was sensual in his music, he just didn't happen. So you had to be kind of a foolish Little Richard type of artist that didn't particularly offend anyone because he appeared not to be masculine. And these are artists that got a lot of attention even in Black radio because they were the only ones that the recording studios were releasing Hipsagon. So my major artist during the time I was growing up was groups the Flamingos, "5" Royales, Midnighters, Clovers, those type of groups were, you know, was very popular. And we could hear those groups because it wasn't a single person, it wasn't a single artist that they focused on. It was the whole group.
Dana Aritonovich [00:16:03] And. And what do you remember the first record you bought or maybe some of the early records that you actually spent your own money o?
Bill Spoon [00:16:11] I actually bought Elvis first. Oh, really? Oh yeah. Music is with me. It's about what I feel. And he has some great songs, great melodies and he came across really good. “Love Me Tender” was a beautiful song. Matter of fact, I tried to cover that song but no one wanted to release it because it was just too expressive to have any kind of commercial value. Even some early country. I don't remember all of the artists. I remember some of the songs. And as far as buying music when I was a kid, we as kids didn't buy music because we didn't own the apparatus to play music. Our parents bought music. When I became a teenager when. Well, that wasn't a thing again that we wanted to do with body music. We just wanted to hear it. So we had a little portable radio. I had a portable radio from the time I was in maybe 10th grade. And I listened to different music.
Dana Aritonovich [00:17:38] And what kind of music did your parents listen to?
Bill Spoon [00:17:42] basically blues, because that's what they were. And some big bands of that era, Duke Ellington and Cab Calloway, but basically Muddy Waters. I wasn't part of Muddy Waters. They were. Sorry, I don't even remember the name of most. But again, I remember some croissants. But I wasn't intruding. It was just a song that. I think that song had a meaning to you that kind of like stuck with me anyway.
Dana Aritonovich [00:18:25] And what did your parents think about the kind of music that you listened to? Like the rock and roll type stuff or Elvis? Did they have any feelings negative or positive about that kind of music?
Bill Spoon [00:18:37] No, not really. Not in my household. My parents were like most Black parents. They were in the church and she didn't put- I wasn't forbidden to like some of my- Some of my friends, they could not listen for certain things. But I was fortunate enough. I didn't have that type of restriction on me. But as far as my parents, they had their own weekend on Friday nights that they would have their social gathering basically at each other's home consist of card playing, playing cards and listening to music. We did have a couple of clubs in the area for the adults that were basically jukebox music there during the time I was a child. I don't know all of the stuff that my parents may have done because we wasn't up to children staying in children's place doing. I would imagine there were a lot of stuff they listened to that I didn't know about. Because they have a lot of parties, they had a lot of Redd Foxx-type stuff.
Dana Aritonovich [00:19:56] Okay.
Bill Spoon [00:19:59] You know, if we were fortunate enough to grab a record and kiss someone's parents away from home, we could hear that stuff. But it wasn't something that was widespread in my childhood. It became available to me as a young teenager, as an adult as well as a young adult, but not so much.
Dana Aritonovich [00:20:22] Did. Did you have any siblings?
Bill Spoon [00:20:25] I have a sister that I'm 14 years older than my sister and I have a brother, I'm six months older. My father's my natural father's child. That's where we school. My natural father. I was adopted every year by my stepfather. So I carried his name Bell. And I had to make the change from William Bell to Bill Spoon simply because when I recorded my first record, that was an artist out of Memphis, his name is William Bell. Oh, his record was a monster record for Stax “You Don’t Miss Your Water”. So people were basically confusing me. And I didn't mind that, but he did because I was getting accident. That should have been the issue. But then as time grew, as the time went by, I realized that I was never going to have an identity if I kept recording on the name of William Bell. I went to for everybody because I live with my father when he came to Cleveland, and that's probably one year passing at school. So I just became one of the school. Like I said, I'm six months old. I'm my brother and my father was like 18 years older than me. So we were kind of like. He was also somewhat an entertainer. He was aspiring to be a comedian. That just never really happened. But he did a lot of local stuff. A lot of local stuff. So I got exposed to music scene of Cleveland. basically Lester Johnson, who was the president of Free Health Records, that was one of his friends. I left the eventually signed Understood contract. But that's its transition from Williamville to be a school. musically. But professionally, I always had to use my name on all my credentials. I have this dual life here. You probably, you know, got a name that should talk to Bill Spoon. And if you had talked to anyone in the legal profession, where I had spent almost 30, 47 years of my life, they wouldn't know who you were talking to, but they would know William Bell. Especially in the Los Angeles area. Pretty high profile out of in Los Angeles. And the work that I did, basically what you see at CSI, what I did in Los Angeles, okay. I started as a result spending six months in our office. I mean, believe me or not, I was an investigator in Cleveland and I was with investigated welfare department. The whole. While we're staying in Cleveland. All of my group, all of us had jobs because we didn't, you know, we didn't discontinue our education. Do your job. So that may have been a reason that the sold notes really didn't really happen like the O’Jays because we all were scrubbing at the same time as the O’Jays did nothing but sing for a living. We didn't have to rely on sale of records or getting weekend gigs to support off them. So out of the four of us, it appeared that only two of us really, really, really wanted to stand in the music industry and whatever that gift is to be involved beyond performance with Ricky and myself, we still work. We still do some projects together as WR. And hanging out with us occasionally.
Dana Aritonovich [00:25:32] What do you remember like the first musical performance that you saw live either when you were still living in the South or when you moved to Cleveland? What's the first musical performance that you remember seeing in person?
Bill Spoon [00:25:52] The "5" Royales and Hank Ballard and James Brown.
Dana Aritonovich [00:25:58] Oh, okay.
Bill Spoon [00:26:00] That was a. That was like when the late '58 or early '59 that they had a tour that came through, it came through. So my family got- My mother and my stepfather got a special invitation from him. They allowed me to come along with it. Although this was not supposed to be a venue that chose to attend. But I got a chance not to sit in the audience, but to at least stay backstage and see these people work. And I saw the circumstances that they worked on my band because I didn't have anything to compare with at that time. So I was fascinated and I got a chance to see Alec Bath perform quite often. But that was gospel music. That was church setting, which I was. All of us as young people were allowed to be a part of that main audience.
Dana Aritonovich [00:27:22] And when you moved to Cleveland, I know you were in the army for a couple years and when you started going out to clubs and stuff to listen to music, where would you go?
Bill Spoon [00:27:33] basically you would. You are fAMiliar with the Cleveland area. So basically our area of venues that we had was from 105th and Euclid. All of 100. All of Euclid basically had clubs that were Black clubs, music bars, Red Carpet. To come see them later became the major one that lined up in the Hall of Fame. And I don't know why they were the only ones that were placed in the Hall of Fame. And I can't even recall the name right. But that area, Glendale area, the Superior area, is where we basically worked as artists in clubs that were located in those areas. They had a lot of cavalry parties during the ’60s. And you had different groups to maybe look for cavalry. And they were high, you know, live entertainment. We got a chance to work pretty much each weekend that we wanted to in that. In that radius of Cleveland. There were some scattered gloves over the Mount Pleasant area. But most of the black and down to.
Dana Aritonovich [00:29:17] And who do you remember seeing performing at those clubs? Like any Motown acts or Stax or anybody like that?
Bill Spoon [00:29:24] Well, Motown artists would come up with the Leo’s. Because the Leo’s had the biggest move. Not a lot of Motown acts came. Only the Temptations basically came to Cleveland and performed on a regular basis. Because that was a Robin Greek between the Temptations and the O’Jays. And that would really draw, you know, people to. To those venues. Because, again, because of the type of music Dojo was doing. Type of music that the Temptations was doing was somewhat unfair. Because the Temptations was getting national coverage. But they were certainly being Disney Ohio. And their music was real true. And they were great performance. And it was probably one of the best impersonate performances. Actually making me feel. When you pursue Temptations, the quality gifts. And they did all this. But they were so polished until those of us who were into music sometimes would see them as just being a little bit too commercially. Because I grew up with Eddie and I knew what they did over here in high school type of. You don't like to hear them. Music was not there. It was just the vocals, great vocalist. But everything was so professionally done. At no time until you didn't have what Eddie had to do. The advantage of doing his relief. Ed may not be grammatically right lying that he would say that he may say. But you would, you know, what I'm saying. Was Motown. And all the artists are very polished across over. So all of the English I was wondering if they did was correct. Whereas artists in Cleveland, we didn't have that type of direction. So we just saved a little bit of death. And a lot of it still lives today. I would have never imagined that. Japan, parts of Japan.
Dana Aritonovich [00:32:34] And what radio stations do you remember in Cleveland, like radio stations or DJs that you know, that you listened to on a regular basis?
Bill Spoon [00:32:42] Well, it was WJMO and WABQ. Ken Hawkins was the biggest recording. And I think he did a great deal to help the way I've recorded label survive as long as it did. He had a TV show and he had all of those other artists that had a record that was. Radio station disc jockey. This guy played us from my perspective, because what would happen is, is that you had. You had DJs that had Niggly Shade on the weekend would be the one that would sponsor the events, live entertainment. And in order for us to get them to play our records, they would have us do with basically promo. Very little, very little compensation, but they was consistent. So you did it in order to get your record for you. And it was a. On a much smaller scale, man. Big boy. Yeah. I didn't have too much love for too many of the Black disruptors in Cleveland because of that. I did not. I had been there long enough to see that. What is the advantage? Yeah, we've been to RIP in Cleveland. But you know, we kind of. My group kind of backed away from doing DJ types of Ken Hawkins. A lot of y' all artists didn't see it happen. So. But unfortunately we do it and we. We got a week ahead. We got to manage it up because the surrounding areas are criminal life. Youngstown. I can't tell you too much about DJs there. And I, you know, that was all right with me because there wasn't any other bare thing.
Dana Aritonovich [00:35:33] And what's the first song you remember hearing that sort of had like a political or social message. Or that had some kind of social commentary?
Bill Spoon [00:36:02] They had that widespread audience. I think that's more of me socially as a situation that we were facing. It's like we're in America. No matter how hard you try to get stuff, it's not old to the likely. That sounds kind of like what- To me, that was the song that kind of touched a lot of Black males across the country to focus themselves in a positive direction because of temptation of that kind of thing. They were just polished and physical successful.
Dana Aritonovich [00:37:06] Okay, let's talk a little bit more about, a little bit less about the music aspect. And what do you remember about- Because what I'm trying to do is situate everybody in what was going on in Cleveland musically and socially and politically as well. What do you remember about the Hough Riots? The Glenville Riots? Anything that you may have experienced yourself if you were anywhere near those, any of those events?
Bill Spoon [00:37:33] Oh, yeah. I was in Iowa basically working for the county of Los Angeles, where both of those occurred. In the low enforcement community, Naturally. 98% of our cases in the welfare was in those areas because those were the worst areas. People were frustrated during that time. You know, it was a time of growth. It was a time of change. And there had been so many elements in Cleveland that had suppressed that growth. And it was just a bitterness that had been in our society for years and years manifested itself in a new type of male, Black male, that just wasn't going to be like their fathers and grandfathers. You had Black Nationalists, people like Ahmed Evans and his group in the Glenville area and police harassed them. Initially I knew a lot of those guys and then before they changed over to [inaudible] and their beliefs, both of them had already had some kind of involvement where they had been arrested and had been mistreated for things they didn't do. So they just decided that they were not going to do that. They were going to do something that had not been done before and that was unite. Black people had not united in any kind of real way other than through the church. And that was in prayer. Prayer changes things, but you also have to put action sometimes. The Martin Luther King movement, I think, in my opinion, became successful when there were groups out on the west coast, Brown and all those guys, took a different approach than we do. As long as he was nonviolent, the movement was slow. It took almost 12 years to get the buses desegregated in Alabama and the movement back together. And that only escalated to manifest itself with- You had groups like the Panthers and those guys on the left coast who started burning things and becoming violent. The guys that was controlling them had a choice to make. Try and go along with Dr. King and keep people praying and nonviolent allowed the leaders on the west coast to get more people involved. It was kind of a- It was important and for both of those factions to happen, certainly in Cleveland. That's the same thing that happened in Cleveland. I think it's probably the only place that I can recall where that was a [inaudible] and ambush on police. That was in Glenville. Ahmed Evans. They lived [inaudible]. Like I said, I worked in Cleveland at that time and I also had a part-time job at the [inaudible]. So I got a chance to be around the needs of the law enforcement community and I got a chance to see the results of what [inaudible] can do. I don't think it had the impact that a lot of the people were looking for as far as unity Black men. Certainly it had an impact on how the establishment started appproaching and things kind of look better, you know in entertainment in areas people like Lou Ragland. He was probably one of the first artists that I know in Cleveland to forge, to do music in the white clubs of Cleveland to the west side. He did things that none of us had ever done. And he too grew up with a lot of those guys that were involved in the movement. But he was not involved. So he kind of like saw the relaxed attitude and the feel of, okay, well maybe we have been [inaudible], we had to musical units in Cleveland. When I was a Black union and there was white union, the scales were totally different because Black entrepreneurs, people that owned clubs, they couldn't afford to pay the scales that the white union skills, they couldn't afford to pay. It was a very big discrepancy in the kind of money you could make as a professional musician during that particular time.
Dana Aritonovich [00:43:38] So what do you- I mean, you used the term a new type of Black male kind of came out of that era, and it was a more militant attitude. What do you think the responsibility of artists, musical artists or otherwise is in situations like that? What kind of response do you think they. They need to give any kind of commentary through their music or just speaking out on their own when. When there's a time of crisis like that?
Bill Spoon [00:44:05] Well, you know, doing the riot, James Brown was very instrumental in stopping the riots.
Dana Aritonovich [00:44:14] Yes. And Boston. Yes.
Bill Spoon [00:44:16] Yeah. So he was very instrumental. Today's music, I'm totally opposed to. I'm totally opposed to some of the things that were created as a result of the N.W.A. I was in Los Angeles when that group started. And I think that era of gangster rap has been more dirty now. I think it has facts that everything that was done by Dr. King and by that was positive. There were some positive things that came out with the Black Panthers. the Black Panthers had united communities. They fed each other. the Black Panthers fed more people than the federal government, than their program. So they- It wasn't altogether just a radical violence group. They had social intent. And quite naturally that wasn't something that was wanted at the time. They did not want unity. There has never been a want for unity among Black people from the time they brought us over because we spoke different dialects when they brought us from Africa, and they made sure when they brought us over here that groups were segregated as to what they could understand each other. So that kind of mentality has always been within the Black community where people just don't truly understand or trust each other. Are you following me? So I think that music, being free and being widespread, was a. Any form of entertainment, including the movies going back to when I was a kid. I saw no positive roles of Blacks in any type of television movies. It was always produced. These were great actors and actors that were doing it at the time. They did what they had to do to get work. The roles that they played was demeaning. And it was intended. And the terminology that was used for me to see as a kid was Uncle Tom and these kind of things. Something come along to say, you don't have to be. And certainly that happened with some of our entertainers. Nat King Cole brought a different aspect to the Black male with his music and the way he presented himself in the X style. But again, these people, they tried to keep these people out of mainstreAM America with their music. It didn't work with Nat and totally did manage to kill his television show. But the music, However, today's young men and women that are out there, I think they're doing more harm. They're making more money than we ever thought that we could make. Because what did happen, and I'm working with people like us, is that we didn't look at show business in the right. With the right attitude show. This business is the longer, the biggest of the two words. We learned the show, someone else took care of the business. We didn't learn the business. So we wasn't financially successful. Whereas our young people today, they have grasped the business part of publishing. Knowing how to control what they write, create. We didn't. All of my songs that I wrote with Way Out was basically given to the publishing arm of Way Out, which was outweigh publishing. And as of today, those songs, they are out there. They're still under Outway Publishing and Outway Publishing is gone. And there's no one controlling it. So if, even if we are generating monies from those songs, we have no way of getting paid as writers because there's no publishing arm to pay it. Whoever picked up the responsibility of carrying that publishing company on, we don't know who it is. You and I have been trying for the last 12 years to find masters and. And someone that was the last person that was supposed to be controlling a factor of our republic. That's the only positive thing that I see young people have done in music from the time we perform as young people today, is that they did learn how the business operates. But unfortunately, they are operating on the same principle that was done in the '50s and the '60s, they are living off their art.
Dana Aritonovich [00:49:39] Tell me a little bit more about Way Out Records.
Bill Spoon [00:49:43] Way Out Records was started by Lester Johnson, who was an entertainer himself. And he had performed individually throughout Cleveland during the '40s, probably the late '30s, early '40s and '50s. Came with a group called the Hornets. I don't recall them. I was not in Cleveland during that time. I'm just relating to you, to me, about his history, because I only saw him perform once. But he had a dream. He had a dream of doing in Cleveland that was being done over Motown. The only difference is that Motown, in Motown, they Had a formula that he didn't have Motown. I had involved people who were musically trained in their production. They didn't just have musicians who were God gifted musicians. These guys were school trained. Most of all the producers and writers in form of training in music composition in music. They had been schooled by some very old time musician. So he had lyricists that were trained for school-trained people to put words together and that's the way they tune themselves on there. So quite naturally they were coming out with products. They had a step formula as to how they were going to do their rhythm. They didn't do any rig from that because they were trying to get the cross. So we didn't have that type of ingredients in our Way Out. We had one guy who was a vice president of the company financially was who was financially making it happen. He and Don King. Well at that time Don King was the number baron in Ohio. He wasn't a boxing promoter and he too had a dreAM. But he didn't have the people. We didn't have the people, the professional people around us. We didn't have a coordinator, movement coordinator. This is what they did. They danced. So they were able to teach. They had danced professionally, they had been exposed professionally. So they were able to teach those artists how to present themselves on stage. We didn't have management that you know kept contracts and all those things in order for the artists. So quite naturally artists, some of the artists became very, very disgruntled because we didn't know how the industry, how the music worked. All we knew is our records was getting played and we wouldn't get paid. And again I'm thankful that I was inclined to be involved in with Way Out because it was a learning experience and it been good for me over the years. I do believe that if we had had one person that was a business person. We had people that knew how to generate money. The business part of it was where that company because we didn't have anyone we had the vision to really, really make the company. But it was a place that kept a lot of us involved in the industry and involved in music. Because we did have an opportunity to record and to hear our music being played. And people like to be. Bobby Wade who were part of that stable had made their living as a result of what they basically self taught themselves taught him. He learned on his own. All the music industry saw the business part of a go around pretty late and he made it must learn how to how the business works. Publishing. He also taught himself how to that gave him an opportunity to understand equipment engineering and well, this guy. Gifted talent was always banned. These are things that you have to learn. You have to be put in a position to learn and you have to want to learn. I didn't want to learn how to engineer. I wished I had, but I was not that gifted of a musician as Luke and Bobby. So all I wanted to do was write my music and present it to the public and be a reaction. But you know, I had created. But like I said there, there those two are still making them live in years in Vegas. And Bobby Wade was in Vegas for years. Bobby left and became part of Anthony and Fury and then it became Bobby Wade and playing with him, with Anthony. So way I was real good for their music.
Dana Aritonovich [00:55:50] And why, why do you think it is that the music that, that you grew up with and that you were part of is still relevant? That we have all these channels and we have, you know, a lot of nostalgia for that music and, and for the most part whatever's on the radio today, we're not going to be listening to in 40 or 50 years. Why, why do you think that music was. Was so special?
Bill Spoon [00:56:12] It was the music that was created here in America. And if you go back to inception of our country, we had European musicians that came over and if you listen to any classical music, you don't hear rhythm. There are no drums, you know what I'm saying? It was basically just very good brass, strings, and horns that came from initially until they got here and hooked up with musicians, hooked up with African musicians who didn't have the brass and what have you, but they had the rhythm and people danced on beats there were many ways. And the WASPS were. Was the two major dances in the world until America. And here it was the music that you hear that are popular music throughout the world basically has the ingredients that were created right here in America. They were going to get away from that. Although what they are doing now is just playing on the percussion part of it. But it will eventually go back to melodic-ness. And all of that was created here in America and back became a very, very much of a part of that. And if you listen to what is called country now, it's basically rhythm and blues.
Dana Aritonovich [00:57:52] Oh yeah, absolutely.
Bill Spoon [00:57:54] It's basically rhythm and blues. And the sad part about it is that the reason a lot of artists didn't grow, Black artists didn't grow during the '40s and '50s and the '60s is because of that segment of our society that did not want them to have their children or themselves Publicly relate to anything that a Black person was doing. So with their kids today, that's what they're doing. They're singing exactly. Using melodies and phrases. Exactly the way it was done by Black artists during the ’50s, '60s and '70s and parts of the '80s until, you know, Black music changed and looked at the rap. I believe that it will evolve and come back to your people again. Will want to hear melodies. They want to hear music that they can sing. We call it hook. And some parts of music, they call it the sing along. Whether you want to sing for a living or not, you can sing that song because that is always done as to where it's simple.
Dana Aritonovich [00:59:17] Exactly. And why do you think that? And I'm sure part of it has to do with just, you know, the melodic tone of it. Why did that music appeal to so many different people, Black and white and people around the world, do you think?
Bill Spoon [00:59:28] It's chords. It's certain chords that makes you do certain things. And in the music that we produce, we have second music of by telling you a story and experience. Because people like music that they can relate to. The content of that song, she used to be my girl. I use that as there are so many guys that had girls that that story would fit their- What they did to their relationship. When she was my. I didn't do certain things and I should have done three things. So you set the story up with chords that would make the person listen. And then you would get it to a point as to where you gave them a relief, which was you took them to a height, which was the bridge, got them excited. Then you break them down, you release them from that excitement. It's not like what you hear now. Everything is never change. It's constantly hyper. It's constantly. They have nowhere to relax and listen or have no way to truly relax. And they can't sing the melodies because there aren't any melodies in those sh. The songs of the kids that we are doing now are so personal that no one else can relate to that, to their. Their story. Where most of our music, we had songs that if you were having a bad time in life, things weren't going right with a relationship. That if someone made a song that you could relate to. I remember when I first got out of Harvard and I had just gotten married and I had to go through children, my wife thought school. And I was going through the changes of reentering back into society as a civilian. And there were certain credentials that what I had done, you know, had been doing. I didn't have. And that was a song that was out at the time. I brought the record for my wife and took it home because we were struggling. May not have a cent pay to whip but we're going to to make our car may be old, our tools cold we're going to make a job it's hard to find we have to stand in the welfare line. I got your love. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. I was able to convey to my wife my feelings through that song without me having to create the words because someone else had already wanted through the same situation. That may not have been the sAMe situation, but it was the same circumstances that I was going through. We had music to relate to circumstances in a lot of people's lives, most people, because there aren't so many things in life that people want and it all depends on how they want it. They want their health, they want their money, they want an outlet to social outlet, love, outlet, and they want their freedom. It all depends on what order they put there. Some people think that if they got money, they got everything. I happen to believe that health is the most important because without health, the money ain't no good. But those are the ingredients that you go find in most south. You're going to find in most songs that live today. You're going to find those ingredients where the writer was talking about something that most people, Black, white, green people, want with their life or have experience in their life. And you give them a solution, you give them a song. You don't do what these rappers do. You don't. You don't use things just like bucka and let her go, she ain't nothing but a prostitute. These are the kind of things that young men, Black and white, are being taught subliminally by music when we were taught positive things about music. Although you treat me bad, I'm going to still love you. Although you've done me wrong, I'm going to still love. No matter, you know, how hard our trials and tribulation be, I'm going to stick with you. These are the kind of things that we heard in music opposed to what they are hearing today. Music is so self centered and so divisive as far as combining and making relationships work. To the left. Your stuff is in the box to the left. I did this for you. I did that for you. And if you do things for someone, you do it because you did it for your heart. You didn't do it for another reason. But when you have an artist that I did these Things. And it was my money. I bought two each clothes and I did this. Now, you're teaching young men in the sense that he can find some girl who's doing something for herself and play on, and if she put him. Put his stuff to the left in the box, he move on to someone else. These are the kind of things that I'm seeing.
Dana Aritonovich [01:05:11] And what do you wish young people understood about that music? That. That has this appeal? And, you know, I think a lot of pretty much every young generation wants to do whatever their parents didn't do. That, you know, they want to. They want their own music, they want their own clothes. They want their own everything. And how do you think young people are different from how they were back then? That that music was possible back then. But these days, it's so different. What do you think is different about the young people?
Bill Spoon [01:05:41] Young people have rights that we didn't have. They have rights. They don't have to be disciplined. They can't even be disciplined by their parents. If a parent spanks a child today and someone reports that their parent is in trouble, if a teacher who has custody of that child for eight hours out of the day has to use a little force to get that child to stay in line, that teacher's in trouble, too. So these kids have rights. That I think is wrong. I think it's wrong for the government to have taken a discipline out of our society and people. Because we are born selfish. The majority of us are born selfish babies. When they start talking with words that they usually command is mine. No. So they have to be put in a position as to where they have to understand that there's rules and regulation that they have to follow. And there are people that are in charge. And our kids don't have that to follow. They do what they want to do. You know, we had senses and we music, when we were coming, there were certain things that would not. I remember I knew Dyke Dyke and the Blazers, okay? They had a song that was just a phenomenal song at the time called Funky Broadway. They would not play that song south of the Mason Dixon Line because of the Wood. Funky. So that song stayed. Stayed there as a hit for them. It got out there. Wilson Pickett came back in the '80s, late '80s, maybe early '90s, and he did Funky Dog. It became across the board here because now that word was not. You know, it was not so offensive. It was never that offensive. But it was not being censored the way music had been censored prior to that. Could you hold just One. I know we're doing a review, but I left something on.
Dana Aritonovich [01:07:54] Oh, that's okay. That's okay.
Bill Spoon [01:07:55] I stole Blinky. Can I go and get it all?
Dana Aritonovich [01:07:58] Sure.
Bill Spoon [01:07:59] Thank you. Hello?
Dana Aritonovich [01:08:04] Yes, are you there? Can you hear me?
Bill Spoon [01:08:09] Hello? Hello?
Dana Aritonovich [01:08:13] Can you hear me?
Bill Spoon [01:08:14] Oh, yeah, I'm back.
Dana Aritonovich [01:08:15] Okay. Okay.
Bill Spoon [01:08:19] What?
Dana Aritonovich [01:08:20] I forgot the question I was just gonna ask you. Oh.
Bill Spoon [01:08:23] What.
Dana Aritonovich [01:08:23] What do you think the role of music is supposed to be in? In society, in? In American society, or in? Just in?
Bill Spoon [01:08:30] In?
Dana Aritonovich [01:08:31] In culture in general?
Bill Spoon [01:08:34] I think music is- Should be something that the listener, whether it's classical music, I like all music. Whether it's classical music, whether it's country-western, R&B, gospel. I think there should be a message in there. That message is not going to any song or the chord scripture of these songs. It's not going to appeal to everyone, but I think there should be an appeal where the listener is able to relax and get the feeling or the message. “Clair de Lune” is a very beautiful melodic piece. And whenever I hear that song played, I don't care what I'm doing. It allows me to relax a little bit and let go of whatever it is that I'm dealing with. And I play it all the time and keep it in my car because this is classical. It's just the flow of that music. It's just the chords. It's just the melodic-ness of that piece. That's one of my favorite pieces of music that I listen to consistently. And when I'm not trying to do music or when I'm riding in my car and I do struggle, I listen to classical music. A lot of it. Some of it I understand, some I don't. I just know what I'm like and how it allows me to relax. I don't listen to lyrics when I'm in a car because you get carried away with the lyrics and you don't get focused on what you're doing. Whereas you. classical music, you can hear it and you can still focus on what's. What's there. To me, that's. That's my. What I'm sharing with you. A lot of other people that probably been interviewed, including my good friends, they may not have. May not be able to see it the way I do. And I love. One person out who is. Who has definitely benefited from the Cleveland scene of music is John Wilson.
Dana Aritonovich [01:10:47] Oh, yes.
Bill Spoon [01:10:47] Yes.
Dana Aritonovich [01:10:48] I spoke with him a few weeks ago, actually.
Bill Spoon [01:10:50] John is doing things that none of us. He's doing it now. He travels the world representing arts, finding their monies. You Know, scrutinizing their contracts that they have signed. And all of that started because of what he went through, what we went through in Cleveland by not having anyone to do this, live for certain individuals to do this. So as a group, when I got a problem with a contract, as a matter of fact, I just got a project that's going to be released out of the UK next month. You know, I called John, say, hey John, look at this. You know, I don't, I don't need to go to spend money to get an attorney to look at my contract. My friend does. That. I may want to address or change some of the language, especially now with the money being different in Europe is worth more than the American dollar. So what have been good contracts using the American dollar as the base of the contract. That's not good anymore because the American dollar has depreciated so much. So if you're dealing, making a deal with people in Europe and they want to give you 20 cent, you want, you want that converted to euros at this particular time because it's worth more to you? Yep, absolutely. So. Again, the question you asked was, what do you want out of your music? I want to be able to get a message, a positive message. And if it isn't negative, if it's a negative kind of a situation, I want you to give me a positive resolution. Somewhere in that song I wrote a song about, about my brother and everybody told me says, so Nick. It was called I'd rather go to hell than to be with you. I wrote it because my brother made the statement, the marriage that he was involved in when he first met the young lady there in Cleveland. I mean, I would hate to see him come sometime because he was just going to tell me how wonderful he felt it was. What this lady was doing in his life and how he was around her was like being heaven and fell and everything was ruining it. You know, most of us get a relationship with our eyes, most of us don't use our heart. And some of us, we think, Bob, I would say the beauty, physical beauty of the person. This lady, we talk about certain events, you very attractive and. But you, but you don't get a chance to see who the person is. And, and that's with a lot of marriages until you are married. Because when you're dating you at your best behavior. It was at his best behavior. He made sure that he was well groomed each time he saw her nails, manicured haircut. And she did probably the sAMe thing when they, when, when they got married. Now all of this, you relax and you become yourself. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And he found that the things that she wanted to do, he didn't want to do. She was a party girl. That's where he met her. He met her in a club. She was partying. We met her. And he would only party at times, you know, because he worked. He would come out on the weekends and maybe go to the Sorrel House, which was one of the biggest clubs, Mount Pleasant area. And this is where all of the people that were. That were doing anything good in Cleveland, in the Mount Pleasant area, that's where they hung out. So that's where you met. He didn't know that she came from a family where she was the only child and her parents had owned a couple of businesses. So she didn't have. She didn't have the need as a kid to work for anything. She just got it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, she was. She was spoiled. Yeah. And all she did was party. She partied. She went to Shaker. That was a party kind of a situation when she was in high school because her parents, she had cars. She. She didn't have to work after school, whatever. She would lay around all day and watch the soap operas. You know, she was. Watch All My Children and all. So he, He. He was on the house. And they had been married about three years. And it snowed while we were downstairs. And, you know, you can't hear snow. So when he got ready to leave, quite natural snow had piled up outside. And he come up and said, oh, William, man, look all this snow up here. I said, john, why don't you stay over, man? And called Ronnie, tell him that you're going to stay over. And he told me I had been working on a melody, didn't have lyrics, which was something on piano. I've been sticking with my head. And he made a statement now. He said, I don't want to go through that. I should, because I'd rather go to hell than go home and deal with this woman tonight driving through this. And that stuck with me. I would rather go to hell than be with you. So I took his story and I did a song and I recorded it. And a lot of people, they heard the message because there were so many men who had women with children just like this. But the one phrase, one line I had in there spiritually was so negative. So I had to clean that up with one line in the song and saying, as negative as this is, maybe this time you'll understand how I feel. I had to put something there to clean that negative line. Because, you know, that's a hell of a thing to say. I'd rather go to hell than to be.
Dana Aritonovich [01:17:42] Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:17:44] So what I'll do, if you give me an address, I'll send you a copy of that.
Dana Aritonovich [01:17:50] Oh, yeah, I would love to hear that.
Bill Spoon [01:17:52] So you can see what my writing. How I write.
Dana Aritonovich [01:17:55] Okay.
Bill Spoon [01:17:56] What I write about. But again, I think that music should. If it's negative, I think somewhere in there, there should be a positive resolution to the negative situation. Because life is not just all positive.
Dana Aritonovich [01:18:09] Exactly.
Bill Spoon [01:18:10] And so as far as a writer, you write about things that some writers, like Smokey, can just pick the greatest things to write about. You listen to his music, you just don't ever hear where he had any kind of bad relationship. You know what I'm saying?
Dana Aritonovich [01:18:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:18:31] The chords and everything are just so beautiful and so flowing and so relaxing. But his life wasn't that way personal. So he didn't altogether write about his life where Marvin, on the other hand, wrote about his life, his life experiences. And if you listen to the two. And I used them because I thought they were two best writers that came out of Montana to me for music that lives. Bobby wrote about the real, real world, the world that he was in, not the world that he wanted it to be. And I think his music will live way, way, way beyond. These are the things that have happened the last 10 years, I think, that went out on what's Going On Main street music. Because what it said 20 years is still happening right now. What's going on? Wars are still here. Oh, no, we don't. We're not talking about wearing our hairline. We're talking about changing our pants now. You know what I'm saying?
Dana Aritonovich [01:19:50] Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:19:50] So the sAMe social issues that were happening then, they are happening now, is just in a different lens due to different set of circumstances around.
Dana Aritonovich [01:20:06] That actually kind of leads me into my last question about what do you think the legacy is of this music of that era either? Well, actually in two parts. What's the legacy musically and what's the legacy for society musically?
Bill Spoon [01:20:24] I feel that eventually a younger generation will do what we did with music that was in the '30s and the '40s. We went back and listened and we took themes, we took titles, and we rewrote the title. But you can't rewrite the circumstances of it. You'd be writing a song about your sweetest thing in the world. You got to still say you're the sweetest thing in the world maybe a little differently worded than it was worded. That was a song that I remember my mother had when I was a kid called Swedish Girl and Wolf. I don't know who did it, but I heard those lyrics again so many times over years by different artists saying with the sAMe meaning. So I think the legacy of what we did will resurface again differently as far as the lyrics are concerned, considering the melody. You can't have so many notes and. And eventually people will start singing again, start playing organic instruments again. And it's going to be very, very important for music to last, because if they stay with the electronics like they so many places they can go. You know what I'm saying? Set the drum beat too. You set the drum beat to a beat in this stage. Drummer, a real drummer was playing from what he felt as the song progressed, how he could put his touch into that song. And the bass players, they could put their touch. The guitars could get his licks. And that's got to come back. Which means that young people gonna have to start learning play instruments. They're not doing that. And if they are, it's so like our bands are football. When I was a kid, the band entertained you at halftime. Now bands in high school. My grandson was in high school, Big Pines. And they're playing at halftime. They're playing. They're trying to play. Take five. High school band at a high school football field. Wrong venue. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, he's teaching the kids to read music, but he's not teaching that kid how to have poem with his instrument. Where we had drum majors, majorettes, they don't have that anymore in music in schools. So a lot is being lost because. Because again, the restrictions that's been placed on our teaching society. And it's not cool for a young man to walk around with a guitar. You know, today he has to walk around with an iPod or a drum machine or whatever. He's mastering how to use those electronic devices. It's not a cohesive composition anymore. It's one person progrAMming each instrument to do what he wants it to do. Whereas when I would go into a session, I would give the musician. I don't use IU glide musicians. I give them the changes, the chord changes. Where I'm going from progressing from this chord to this chord. And you play in between them what you feel. If it don't work, if it gets in the way with something I got vocally, we can take it out. But I don't want to restrict that person from not being able to be a part of that piece because that's what makes the music happen. So I eventually think that what we did, the legacy of what we did will resurface itself in the very near future because there's not so many parts, places that they can continue to go with music the way it is without going back to doing. And it's happening already because the country, the country is not country anymore as far as society is concerned. If our world continues, I think man will destroy himself. I think greed will. Greed has always been a part of destruction of society. Egos has always been man's downfall. And the more self centered we get, the more selfish individual gang. If we live for 20 years, these kids today, they are so self centered and so about themselves. When they become leaders, they still going to be self centered about themselves. I was reading an article the other day and I don't know how many people are aware of this. I took it out of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. It says there are 237 millionaires in Congress, 237 people who don't have no problem with health care, that don't have a problem with their housing, that don't have a problem with anything that rejobs the money, who are making our rules. So how can they feel what a person with no health care is feeling? How can they vote against what has made them millionaires?
Dana Aritonovich [01:26:16] Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:26:18] So as far as society is concerned, unless men, somewhere spiritually, some spirituality come back into our world, I think we're going to set the stroke they are predicting. 212, 2012. It's being that term phrase I hope they wrong because I ain't ready to go yet.
Dana Aritonovich [01:26:38] Yeah, really.
Bill Spoon [01:26:39] But I do believe that it will happen. I don't think it will be a racial. Because the problems we have are not racial problems. All people are hungry in our society. Black, white, green, red people. You know, all people are having a very difficult time raising their children because they don't have control over their children. Mother can't spank her child without having to worry about my father can't discipline his young daughter for fear that she's going to get on the phone and call and save my dad and my nest. So some things got to change. And that seemed to be, you know, I guess some of the alp countries, they don't have that problems that we have because they have a whole different way of solving their problems than we have here.
Dana Aritonovich [01:27:44] Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:27:44] With their children, with their women and what have you But I just pray, I just pray that, that some spiritual intervention can come soon again. I go back to Marvin, to Marvin, What’s Going On. If you listen to all of the song that's on it album, he kind of like with his vision that he had, he kind of like was seeing what was happening then and he was telling everybody what was happening then. And they, some of them heard it. Some of those things are happening 20 years later. They study him "Inner City Blues". All the things that was in that album that was happening then is happening now. This figure on a greater scale. Yeah, on a greater scale. We got more politicians now being they have always been self centered and it was about them. Because you stopped and clean. Why would anyone want to be a senator representative? They already rich. Most of us take jobs. Some of us take jobs because they're forced upon us to do what we were meant to do. Like with me, it was meant for me to deal with the dead. I started when I was in High School, 15 years old, learning a trade. I had no idea. Not the more truthful because the more truth is to me was going against what I had been taught by my grandmother. The only laws that spiritual laws that my grandmother taught me was first of all, love God with all my heart to take my faith and to treat people the way that I want to be treated. Those are the two laws that Jesus passed on on this sermon on the Mount. She saw that me being a Scorpio and as a kid and I wasn't going, I wasn't going to follow to me, you know, I wasn't going to follow just Father, you know, I was going to do my own thing. So she spiritually gave me those two things to try and live out. Because she told me, no matter where I go, as long as I treat people the way I want to be treated with whatever circumstances, Black, white, whatever, if I treated them the way I want to be treated and I would have to react when I was treated differently than I wanted to be. But I could not just walk around and meet every white person because I grew up in Dustin or whatever Ku Klux Klan. I just assumed that these people were Ku Klux Klans, but they were not. It was less than one fourth of the community was involved in that type of activity when we was growing up. But the saddest part was is that the other three fourth didn't speak out against that was the sad part. But I saw that transition from when I was a kid, young kid in Bessemer. I saw that change before I Left gossip where people started speaking out, saying this is wrong, you know what I'm saying? And taking a stand against it. So spiritually, we got to have a change. Our society will grow. It will crumble. We gotta stop being greedy. Cleveland was a very, very, very, very good city when I was there. There was no one in Cleveland that wanted to work. When I came to Cleveland in '60, they could not find a job. Yeah. Whether they had a high school education or whatever, or they were a dropout because there were plants that were doing things there. And everybody is not to be a degree holder.
Dana Aritonovich [01:31:31] Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:31:32] You know, there were people who were making as much money as some people with degrees that were working in Ford's, Chrysler and Public Steel and Bethlehem Steel. And the greed again, the greed of those who have wanting more, took all of those jobs, put them somewhere else. Same thing with the city that I grew up in. I grew up right in front of the plant that made Pullman boxcars.
Dana Aritonovich [01:32:02] Okay.
Bill Spoon [01:32:04] That plant is just sitting there now. They still have natural resources in the state of Alabama, Tennessee, iron ore, steel, in those mountains. But they won't. They won't because it's the unions and what have you got involved. And it's just too expensive for corporations to make the kind of money they want to make because they want to pay their. They want to pay their head. If people want to. Want to get billions of dollars as bonuses. So they allow these cities to just deteriorate. Detroit, Cleveland, all because they outsourced the jobs to where it was cheaper. So when you do that, you get cheaper products. So greed, selfishness is going to be the downfall of. As long as you're not.
Dana Aritonovich [01:33:03] I agree. There doesn't seem to be a sense of community anymore either in music or just in society in general. Everything is about the individual.
Bill Spoon [01:33:13] These things days, music, music, it will all be. It will always be some form of music. You know, it will always be music won't go away. It just won't go away. We're going to have it to describe our bad situation. You know, if you listen to all of the old Black hymns, it's about suffering and. But they always saw something getting. They saw that spiritually that was going to be a better day in the music. But it was always there. Even in pain and suffering. People still have a tendency to find words and a way to communICAte those words through music. I think it'll always be a part. I just don't think commercially it's going to be stuff that's being done now. I don't see nobody ever redoing it over again.
Dana Aritonovich [01:34:11] No, definitely not.
Bill Spoon [01:34:13] However, I do see people 10 years. If I'm society, if I were last of 10, 15 years from now, going back, we doing stuff that we did because they got the same. They'll have the same problems we have. Women will be the same. Women don't change. They, they, they. The styles may change, but the designs stay the same. Yep. You know that men don't seem to understand that. So these guys are, you know, talking about, I'm a player, I'm this, I'm a Mac, I'm this. But they don't do the choosing. You do the choosing. It's your choice as to who you are going to allow to get next to.
Dana Aritonovich [01:34:55] Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:34:56] You know, it never. Songs that I grew up on. I can't get next to you, babe yeah, I can't get next to you I can do a whole bunch of things, but I can't get next to you. Because that's your choice. That's a woman's choice. But our young men are being taught that they are the ones that, you know, that are making this choice. Because I'm a player. I know you want to get. I know you want to be next to me. I know you want to do this step to the left. Little dumb things that, you know, that's not real. And the young people, the young people who are listening to this, they're taking this advice. They're taking advice from people who haven't had experiences themselves.
Dana Aritonovich [01:35:40] Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:35:42] Whereas most of our music was written from experience. Either ours or someone that was close enough. Enough to us that we could write about it. Like, I never had anybody in my life that I felt that I wanted to say I'd rather go to hell and be with. Certainly I was close enough to my brother to see his changes and what he was going through and how he was trying to make his relationship work and the problems that was constantly coming up. And it was only because he wanted the individual to be something that they wanted.
Dana Aritonovich [01:36:17] Is there anybody out there who's performing today who you think kind of has a little bit of what those other performers had in the past? Is there anybody you think will be listening to in maybe 20, 30 years from now?
Bill Spoon [01:36:33] Current artists? Yeah. As bad as R. Kelly is with some of the things that he do, because he still. He picked up a lot of stuff from old school.
Dana Aritonovich [01:36:47] Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:36:48] And he picked up a lot of thought patterns that are in some of his pieces. You have to. You have to, you know, just go through the ones that stuff that he's done. Yeah, I think some of his stuff will end okay. I, I really think, I believe I can fly. I think be a mainstay because that's a very positive statement. You know, it's not the physical flame, but the, you know, elevating yourself above the bull that's going on everything. It's hard when you, when I got to go home to find another artist that I think is doing something, and I'm sure they are, but I don't listen too much of the young people stuff today. I really don't. Yeah. Unless something sneaks out like this. I believe I could last reached out and grabbed me one day. And to show you what I'm saying about music, Charlie Wilson, who was agape Uncle Charlie is what they call him now. He got a song. That the Young People relates to and it's simply old school music. Simply doing old school music with a little refining to it to have a few of the ingredients in it that the young kids look for when they want to sound. Come on. It's called, it's called. Oh, my goodness, you probably heard it and you might even like it. Try to think of it. And if you haven't heard it since you're doing this piece, I would, I would suggest that you go in and listen to what he has done now. He's, Charlie's gotta be 60, in his 60s. Okay. He and the O’Jays are probably in the whispers. Probably the oldest artists that are out there right now. That came from when we were out there. I can't even think of the name of what is up. It's a real nice song with, you know, stuff in it that came from old school that the young kids are buying and they like it. So I'm believing because of that a lot of the old school stuff will emerge again.
Dana Aritonovich [01:39:46] Okay.
Bill Spoon [01:39:49] Well, I don't know what else I can tell you.
Dana Aritonovich [01:39:51] I don't have any more questions unless there's some, you know, concluding statement that you'd like to make or anything. Because I, I, I got a lot of good information out of you, so I'm happy.
Bill Spoon [01:40:00] Well, as long as you, you've got something that you, that will fit into what you're doing, I'm just happy to, to share it with you. I'm quite sure that I'm at least three times your age and a lot of the stuff you have no knowledge of if you didn't talk to people like us.
Dana Aritonovich [01:40:16] Exactly. And then that's why, you know, these interviews I'm doing are so valuable. To me, you know, for this project, because, you know, your voices aren't out there in. In any of the books that I've used or, you know, even a lot of the newspaper. I'm looking at old issues, the Plain Dealer and the Call and Post and stuff like that. And there- There's not a lot of information out there about the music and. And the people who are creating it or, you know, the people who are just listening to it. So the. The interviews I'm doing have been extremely helpful, and it's. It's going to form the base of what my argument is, so I'm grateful.
Bill Spoon [01:40:48] Well, the song. I was trying to tell you, it was a song that The Drifters did. The title was There Goes My Baby.
Dana Aritonovich [01:40:54] Oh, okay. Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:40:55] I'm sure you've heard Jo version of the.
Dana Aritonovich [01:40:58] I'm. I'm sure I have. Yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:41:00] I'm playing it in the background. This is a recent song, but he's an old artist. You hear the melodic.
Dana Aritonovich [01:41:12] Yeah, yeah, I like that.
Bill Spoon [01:41:13] Now he going to do some young stuff in there.
Dana Aritonovich [01:41:18] Oh, yeah.
Bill Spoon [01:41:29] I think a lot of that will come back. Yeah, he's doing a kind of rap, kind of a thing, but it's melodic.
Dana Aritonovich [01:41:35] Yes.
Bill Spoon [01:41:36] And he has a melodic hook that everybody can sing. The chords are beautiful in it. But he's old school. He's a gaping. That's the gap in there. He and his brothers wear a gaping. And he went through a lot of changes in his life personally and went from the top of the charts during the '80s as part of the Gap Band to no music. But he came back and he incorporated what we did and what the kids are used to hearing. He's doing a rap, but he's doing a rap melodically, where he's rapping with notes, but he ain't singing it the way that he sung with the cap. However, when he comes into the hook, they sing that hook with a melody that everybody. There Goes My Baby. They sing that way. Everybody that even they can't sing, they. They can remember those chords and that melody and be involved in that sound. That's what actually coming back. So if you want to see the integration of the old school, new school, just take time out and listen to that record. Take time out and listen to what he's doing, and you'll hear the old school in there. And you'll hear the new school in there.
Dana Aritonovich [01:43:05] Excellent. Well, thank you, Bill, so much for taking time out on Saturday morning to talk to me. Like I said, I got some really good stuff from you Some really good quotes, and it's kind of enlightened me on some stuff that I wasn't sure of or, you know, didn't know. So I. I really appreciate your time today.
Bill Spoon [01:43:24] I won't ask one thing. Yes. Make me aware I'm still alive when you get through with your project. If it's. If it's.
Dana Aritonovich [01:43:33] Oh, absolutely, yes. Actually, I'm going to be finishing it in the spring and graduating. And my goal right after I'm done with it is to start turning it into a book, because I know I talked to Lou Ragland about that a little bit, too. Yeah. And actually, another thing that I want to do with this, too, is do a documentary specifically about Cleveland and this time frame, too. So that's why I'm glad I was able to reach out to people like you and to John Wilson and Lou and everybody like that. Because, I mean, mean, you. You got. You guys really need your story out there.
Bill Spoon [01:44:06] Well, thank you for choosing me.
Dana Aritonovich [01:44:09] Absolutely.
Bill Spoon [01:44:10] I again, hope that I've had some positive input to what you're doing.
Dana Aritonovich [01:44:15] Definitely. Thank you so much. I will. I will be in touch. I'll keep in the loop with what I'm doing.
Bill Spoon [01:44:20] Great number. I'm not going to change. I'm not going to change this number, so. Okay, stay in touch. Great. Get in the Atlanta area, in the Metro Atlanta area. We only like 12 miles from Downtown Atlanta.
Dana Aritonovich [01:44:32] Okay, great.
Bill Spoon [01:44:33] Give me a call.
Dana Aritonovich [01:44:34] Absolutely. Thank you.
Bill Spoon [01:44:36] You take care of yourself.
Dana Aritonovich [01:44:37] You, too. Enjoy your weekend.
Bill Spoon [01:44:38] Thank you. Bye.
Dana Aritonovich [01:44:39] Bye.
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