Abstract
Nancy King Smith, Executive Director of the Shaker Lakes Nature Center, discusses her personal and official involvement with the Center. Interview contains considerable information about fundraising campaigns, capital improvements, organizational structure, recreational and educational programming, and public outreach.
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Interviewee
Smith, Nancy King (interviewee)
Interviewer
West, Julie (interviewer)
Project
Shaker Lakes Nature Center
Date
6-28-2006
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
91 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Nancy King Smith Interview, 28 June 2006" (2006). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 902006.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/244
Transcript
Julie West [ 00:00:00 ] Nancy King Smith. With me, I have Martha Eakin, Ishima [?], and Tony [Bifulco] and Mark [Sack] are the technical people. Nancy, did you grow up in the Cleveland area?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:00:11 ] No, I actually grew up in California.
Julie West [ 00:00:14 ] So then when did you come to this area?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:00:16 ] I’ve been here just about 25 years.
Julie West [ 00:00:20 ] Can you describe or would you please describe an early memory of an outdoor experience?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:00:26 ] Well, growing up in California, in a fairly hot spot, we would often go to the mountains for summer vacations. My dad was a teacher, so we had time to do that. And the Sequoia National Park is really where I kind of cut my teeth on the outdoor world and becoming enchanted with it.
Julie West [ 00:00:49 ] How and when did you first get involved with the Nature Center and the surrounding natural areas?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:00:56 ] When we moved to Cleveland almost 25 years ago, my daughters were 3 and 6, and I was wanting to get involved in this new community. Knowing that the Nature Center was here was one of the reasons we chose to live in Shaker Heights. And so it wasn’t long before I found my way over here and enrolled them in classes and got involved in doing the docent training to help with the classes and then got involved in the friends organization to help with membership. That was the first round.
Julie West [ 00:01:40 ] What changes have you seen in the Nature Center since you first became involved?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:01:45 ] Well, if I go back the 25 years, it was, as it is today, an important resource for the community and providing wonderful educational opportunities for children and for adults and wonderful trails. The boardwalk was not installed when I first came, and that was certainly an addition in the early ’80s. But jumping ahead a few years to 1995, which is when I became Executive Director, the changes that I’m most aware of are the physical ones of the total remodeling and expansion and an expansion of the programming as well, particularly to go beyond natural history education into more broadly environmental and sustainability as a focus.
Julie West [ 00:02:54 ] Let’s go back to your earlier experiences when your children were enrolled. What memories do you have of that period and their experiences and your perceptions?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:03:08 ] Well, I guess I remember that most of the time they liked coming. There were a couple of times with my younger daughter who was not as adventurous, that she might have not been too happy that I was leaving her. But they always seemed to have a wonderful time. And as a result of those early experiences, they both continue to love the out of doors, and we as a family spent a lot of time outside. So it was really exposure to observation and really enjoying and feeling comfortable in the out of doors.
Julie West [ 00:03:52 ] Do you remember anything specific about programming that they were exposed to?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:03:57 ] I wish I did. I know they had art projects when they finished, but I can’t come up with any specific one.
Julie West [ 00:04:10 ] Tell me a little bit more, if you can, about the docent training you went through at that time and what you actually did as a result of that training.
Nancy King Smith [ 00:04:18 ] Well, Rich Horton, who was then the director, had regular docent classes and we would go out and explore the trails at that time. Very much from the point of view of an experiential kind of more paying attention to what you saw and felt and heard than that much specific. This is say maple tree or that there was some of that, but a lot of it in terms of the training to work with particularly the youngest groups of kids. But also to some degree, the school age was really about an introduction to the outdoor world and observation skills and sensing. So even though we were adults, we would go through a number of those exercises and things like having a leaf as a ticket to the orchestra concert of the forest where everybody would arrive with their leaf and then listen to the sounds that we might hear or opportunities to do poetry as a group. So a lot of those kinds of arts-related things. I’m assuming my daughters did the same thing, but I don’t have as specific a memory or one of the things I do especially remember of that docent training was the last one of the spring was to be lunch by foraging. And so I came and we walked around Lower Shaker Lake and there were a few little greens and a few things that we sort of picked up. And I thought this is. We’re not going to have much lunch. And lo and behold, we arrived to a spot by Lower Lake where there was a picnic basket full of previously prepared food that we sat there. That was kind of a fun way to end that. But Rich was a natural teacher and so it was, it was good. I then did help teach some of the classes for the, the outdoor adventure classes and also work with some scout groups and so on.
Julie West [ 00:06:46 ] Can you- I know you said you came to the area about 25 years ago, but can you be a little more specific about the time frame when you were actually took the docent training and were a docent at the center?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:06:56 ] That would have been in the early ’80s.
Julie West [ 00:07:03 ] And did you actually- Was there a paid staff at that time or was a docent staff?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:07:08 ] There was a paid staff. There were, were, I believe, I know Dan Best was one of the naturalists and I believe there was at least one more. Rich did a lot of the teaching as well. And the docents didn’t do all of the classes, but they did some of the school groups as I recall.
Julie West [ 00:07:33 ] So you would do it on your own, not in conjunction with the naturalists.
Nancy King Smith [ 00:07:36 ] That’s my memory though. I think the naturalist did the majority of the school classes.
Julie West [ 00:07:44 ] And you mentioned that you went out on the trails of the trails that are here today. What trails were here at that point?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:07:50 ] The Stearns Trail was there and then the trails around Lower Lake. I really don’t have much memory of how close we got to the marsh before the boardwalk was put in. That was also prior to the pavilion going in, which I actually oversaw in my first year here. And there was a meadow area where the pavilion is that we used for teaching.
Julie West [ 00:08:29 ] Any other memories about that period of time they experienced as a docent or the grounds or the Nature Center?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:08:37 ] Well, this isn’t so much the grounds, but one of the projects I was involved with was trying to encourage membership and working with some folks on trying to get in touch with the realtors in the area so that when they were showing houses or having new people come in that they would be aware of the Nature Center and try to promote that way. And that was a project that I worked on.
Julie West [ 00:09:05 ] And you mentioned you did this as a part of the Friends organization.
Nancy King Smith [ 00:09:10 ] Yes, though I think that particular project was a more general Nature Center board project.
Julie West [ 00:09:17 ] Can you talk a little bit about - you said you were a member of the Friends - and what that organization was like and its purpose at that point in time?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:09:25 ] Regular programs. And at least for part of that time they provided childcare, which was something that I value. And so a lot of interesting slide programs on various places that people had visited. The organization also is putting on the Squirrel’s Nest, which was a holiday boutique, kind of similar to many that are going on today. But it was one of the first of that type. And so we all got involved with baking things or helping staff that event. I also remember attending a couple of the parties in the park before they stopped. Now that was just about the time they almost finished their run. But I can remember cooking a lot of hors d’oeuvres for a pre party in the park effort here on the boardwalk for the major donors or for some event I can’t remember, or a group of people. And then we went over to Horseshoe Lake, which is where the party in the park was actually held.
Julie West [ 00:10:46 ] What are your memories or experiences relative to the parties in the park?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:10:51 ] Well, the two I went to were a lot of fun, but the second one was very, very wet. It rained hard. People were- It was very muddy. And I think that may have been the last one when they decided it was just getting too complicated to put on something that large with the possibility of rain.
Julie West [ 00:11:11 ] Could you explain a little more about what the party of the park actually was? What did it entail?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:11:18 ] It, again, was sort of a leader of the type of benefits we see quite a bit of today. That initially, I think all of the food was provided by volunteers who would make enough for lots of people to sample. As things went along, I think they got more restaurants involved. And at the time that I was going, it seems to me it was a combination of people, just volunteers and then restaurants who provided the food. So you’d go and in a big tent and taste food and see lots of people. And it was, as Nature Center benefits seem to be today, kind of like a big community block party.
Julie West [ 00:12:04 ] Was one of the intentions to raise money?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:12:06 ] Absolutely.
Julie West [ 00:12:07 ] And how did they raise money?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:12:09 ] Through the admission fees, ticket costs.
Julie West [ 00:12:20 ] You mentioned that you, when you first came back to town, that the boardwalk wasn’t there. But yet at this point in time, the boardwalk is here. So what can you tell us about the development of the boardwalk, the planning, the actual implementation?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:12:34 ] I was not involved in it at all. And trying my dates as to how all that fell together are not very clear. I do remember driving by and seeing that the boardwalk was under construction. And I do remember that we did some event on the boardwalk prior to a party on the park.
Julie West [ 00:12:58 ] But were you aware of any discussion among members or in the community at that time, pro or con, relative to the board? What was the general feeling?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:13:11 ] No, I think there was interest in that it was going to provide access. Oh, and the other piece I remember, and it must, when it was finished, there was a real push to make sure that the docents and others involved in the Nature Center had training in working with those with disabilities, both physically and blind and deaf. And I can remember a couple of specific trainings on that and that wheelchairs were made available so that the whole accessibility of it to the special needs population was an important part of why people were excited about it.
Julie West [ 00:13:57 ] I know that a little bit later you began became the director of the center. Were there any other significant interactions that you had or experiences at the center between the ones you’ve just been talking about and the time you became a director, the executive director?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:14:15 ] For me, I got very involved in the League of Women Voters and was president of the League. And we did a little bit in terms of issues around recreation, but we were primarily looking at education during those years and changes in the schools. And then I was on the founding staff of the Cleveland Children’s Museum and really didn’t have the time to be involved. And so there was a period of a number of years where I didn’t have time. I believe I stayed as a member for most of that. And actually then one of the grants that we got through the Children’s Museum had the Nature Center as a collaborator on a science education for teachers project. And so I worked with the staff here to make that happen. It was a summer institute as a piece of it. So I had that relationship.
Julie West [ 00:15:24 ] Can you explain a little bit more about what that program was, especially how the Nature Center was involved and about the time frame that this would have been?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:15:33 ] That would have been probably about 1992, ’93, along in there. And the program had a four week institute for teachers where they had some in depth content learning at an adult level as well as some opportunities to look at curriculum and how to work with kids. There was a- One focus was reptiles and amphibians, another was geology, another one was astronomy. And then there was a more general biology and nature, which was the week that was here. So the teachers would actually spend a week at each site with instruction and experiences.
Julie West [ 00:16:32 ] Let’s move on to when you became the executive director. If you could give us a little background and how that transpired. And again when it transpired.
Nancy King Smith [ 00:16:43 ] I had left the Children’s Museum in spring of 1994 and was doing some consulting. Was asked by David Imbrogno, who was the director. He’d been here at the Nature Center about a year and a half. I had known David before he came to Cleveland. He was in Cincinnati and we had both served on the Ohio Museum’s board. So I knew David. And so he asked me to help with some educational planning for the Nature Center and to look at how the program could be upgraded and fitting in with what that was sort of the beginning of the real push for standards and aligning curriculum and so on. So I convened a committee and worked on that and wrote a report of recommendations. And while I was involved in that, David asked me to come to meet with him. And I can remember we were walking on the boardwalk and he said, I’ve just been offered a job that I really want to take as director of the Bernheim Arboretum in Kentucky. Huge. 16,000 acres, real opportunity. Would it be okay if he recommended that I be the interim director and that he could, when he announced or told the board, that he would have some game plan for a next step and so I thought that I could do that and would enjoy that with no real expectation that I would continue largely because I did not have– well, I have a love of the out of doors, I really did not have the biology background to feel that it would be something that would be a good fit for the long term. So after four or five months and they had done a national search and brought a couple of people in for interviews and had asked if I would put my name in and I did. And obviously I was the successful candidate and then stayed on as director for 10 years. And I think it worked partly because I didn’t have a biology background and was really approaching it more from a layperson and could bring some other skills and have always had a wonderful staff of naturalists who could provide that kind of education and expertise.
Julie West [ 00:19:43 ] Would you describe the Nature Center kind of as you found it when you first came in as the interim director and then became the director, Executive Director?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:19:54 ] Well, I’ll do both sort of how it was organizationally and how it was physically. So organizationally it had gone through a very difficult period from about 1989 through 93 or so. It had rapid change of directors, had had difficulty with funding, had started on a capital campaign that it couldn’t finish, had differences of opinion about the direction of education educational program, whether to go more toward the Earth Institute, more experiential, or more into the more science oriented. So it had been a very difficult period and I had kind of watched from afar, being concerned and continuing to work some collaboratively with the staff. As I said, that was the period of time that we were collaborating with the Nature Center from the Children’s Museum. David Imbrogno came in, would have been, I think ’93 or the end of ’92, and had a lot of experience in strategic planning. And he really led the board and the staff through a strategic planning process and stabilized the organization in a lot of ways and had a good game plan for pretty basic stuff. But getting the educational programming back on track, the membership, fundraising, just sort of all the basics and setting targets for doing that, that was enormously helpful because it really gave a good starting point. Some of the tensions and conflicts of those in between years had settled down. And so I was coming into an organization that was starting its way back up and had a game plan for doing that. And that’s what we did the first couple of years. Physically, the building was getting tired. It was showing its 1960, late 1960s and just a lot of things that while it had been maintained in terms of it wasn’t a wreck, but it was just looking a little stodgy. As well as the fact that from the design, from the beginning, there really was no area for visitors to come to other than a very small front desk and a small gift shop. But it was- You open the door and the first thing you were greeted with was a fairly steep staircase heading up to the second floor. And the classrooms were smaller than they needed to be for the size of the classes. And so I knew that once more stability and so on was in place, that the next thing to take a look at would be how to improve the building. The other big problem was that there was no easy access to the second floor, which is where all the programming was taking place. So we knew we needed to deal with that more substantively than the steep and gravelly path around to the back.
Julie West [ 00:24:04 ] Can you kind of- And that was great the way you did first the staff and then the building. Can you kind of then walk us through your tenure in terms of the changes that happened in each of those areas, the significant events as you see it?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:24:21 ] Well, and I haven’t mentioned the board, which was also a part of the whole organizational bringing along and really taking a look at the needs of what size and who would be helpful on the board. So we did a lot of board development during that period of time as well. The staffing. There were a couple of strong naturalists here and they had started doing a really building back trust with some of the schools that had not felt that the quality was as consistent as they wanted it. So they were well on their way. And as we then were attracting more schools, we were able to add some other good staff on the naturalist way. We also, over that period of time, maybe by it was 1989, had gotten the Nature Center’s endowment foundation to agree to invest some money in upgrading the development funding program to bring in a full-time skilled development person. And it was at that point that I hired Steve Cadwell as the first, at least in recent memory, full time development director. And so all of those staffing and board development and bringing people along brought organizationally things along. We started a new strategic plan after having accomplished most of the goals of the one that was in place when I arrived and probably tried to do it not in as focused a way as later it seemed would probably have been helpful trying to kind of set some possibilities and had people explore those. And after a couple of years, really of moving through some of that planning process, realized we needed to get a skilled facilitator in to pull it together. And at that point had the Association of Nature Center Administrators, ANCA, come in for a peer consult. And that meant that they brought in actually four people who were directors of Nature Centers from around the country, who came in and spent three days talking with staff and members and board and taking a look at our programming and ended up with some recommendations among them to bring in Corky McReynolds, who was just one of the top Nature Center consultants in the country, to help us take all of the information and ideas and what we wanted to do and really get it focused into an action plan. So Corky came in and I think he came either two or three times for structured times with the board and members of the community and staff. And out of that process emerged what was clearly already the direction we were going, but a plan for how to start in on the physical planning to upgrade the building. And so that strategic plan really then led to establishing a facilities committee that started looking at what the needs were and getting an architect on board. We thought at the time we were starting that yes, we wanted a visitor area and we needed to deal with getting a lift or an elevator of some sort. And we were thinking of something fairly small, probably in the million dollar scope of fundraising. And we thought we could handle that. By the time we had spent time with Rick Parker as architect and looked at what we really needed programmatically and looking longer into the future, it was clear that we needed to do more and that it would be a mistake to do it, partially that we needed to think bigger. And while not everybody agreed that was on the board, the majority of the board really saw that we did have or could develop the organizational capacity to do the additional fundraising and do it. So there was a fair amount of risk, but cautious risk. And we did have a- Once we had the plans, which got the early estimates, which it was clear it was going to be over $2 million to do what we wanted to do. We did have a development consultant do a feasibility study, and they talked with people in the community and did their process and felt that we should be able to raise 2 million. More than that was going to be something of a stretch. But by that time we were committed to wanting to do as many green building things as we could, including the geothermal HVAC, which was going to be a $75,000 add on just in itself. And at that point, the board decided to again say, let’s think big. So a $2.5 million 2001 capital campaign got underway that was in spring and we all know what happened in September of 2001 with 9/11 and the fact that the economy had started to slow down. So it was a tough fundraising climate, but we had a good story to tell. We had some serendipity with a bequest that was not used directly for funding the capital campaign, but provided the knowledge that we’d have a little more of a base in our endowment foundation to work from. And By March of 2002, we had to make the decision as to whether we were going to start construction that summer or wait another year, which we really didn’t want to do. And we just met our goal of, I believe it was two-thirds of the amount by March to feel like we could commit to going through the whole process. So then we quickly started up, and by June, we were out of, totally out of the building and deconstructing it, trying to salvage as much as we could for recycling either here or in other projects. And we spent from June through January in offices down at Chagrin and Lee, trying to run some programs in the schools, but mostly focused on trying to get the building finished. We were back into the classroom and office side of it in January, but it was April before we opened the visitor area and had our grand opening on earth day of 2003.
Julie West [ 00:32:50 ] You mentioned that at a point in time, it was clear that you wanted to have a green building or characteristics thereof. Say a little bit about how that evolved. How did that come to be?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:33:01 ] Well, through this fairly protracted strategic planning process, green building was becoming more of an approach that certainly any group that was working with environmental education wanted to at least take a look at, but it was still a new phrase. We actually had a board member when we started talking about green building who thought we wanted to paint the building green. We were all on a learning curve, including the architect and the contractors. But we said we wanted to do as much as we could without adding excessive expense, to add elements that were energy efficient, that were using recycled materials or long lasting materials, paying attention to use of water and minimizing that. We added a lot of things like the no-flush urinals and the geothermal rooftop gardens, sun tubes, and all the things that are in our green building pressure.
Julie West [ 00:34:13 ] What were there challenges related to doing this type of building, and do you have some memories about some of those that might have occurred?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:34:26 ] A lot of it is a blur. It was all happening so fast, but there were a number of issues. We ran into some soil problems that slowed things down and caused some additional expense. The electrical systems were a challenge. Still are to some degree. The fact that the architect and the engineering, mechanical engineering firm had not really had that much experience with some of the things they were trying to do meant that there were some design issues that we had to deal with and made things not go quite as smoothly as they might have. We had hoped to be back in the classroom side of the building by October, and it was January before we actually moved in. Another piece that had happened earlier on, really, in the planning process was the decision to that instead of trying to build around a red oak tree that was near the front of the building, to decide that we needed to take it down and use the space it occupied for the visitor area. It was showing that it was a compromised tree and would probably have had to come down eventually anyway. So we tried to make lemon out of lemonades by starting the One Tree Project, which turned out to be just a wonderful part of the whole remodeling, to take the lumber from that tree and use it for furniture, including the conference room table that we are sitting at right now, as well as a number of beautiful art objects that are on display.
Julie West [ 00:36:30 ] Now that you’ve been in the building for a while, what are your thoughts or feelings about how it’s worked out?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:36:40 ] Well, it really has accomplished what we wanted it to. It’s given a place for people to come in and learn something about the natural world. We’ve played off of the nature inside and out for people to come inside and learn some things, go out on the trails, and then come back from the trails to check out more information or ideas. Not that every visitor does that, but there certainly is a sense of the way in which we design the exhibits to encourage that. It’s also given us a place to show the history, the wonderful legacy of the freeway fight, and also to give information about the Doan Brook, which I didn’t mention earlier. Fairly early on in my tenure here, realized that Watershed Education was an ideal way to have an umbrella for all kinds of environmental and community education, and that the Doan Brook was relatively unknown as to how it really flowed. The fact that it flows through the Shaker parklands and then goes underground into under University Circle and out through Rockefeller Park. At that point in time, an awful lot of people did not make the connection and weren’t particularly aware of what the Doan Brook was. So over pretty much the full 10 years that I was here, we did a lot with Watershed Education and then eventually taking the joint committee on Doan Brook, which we were staffing and spinning that off into a separate 501 is the Doan Brook Watershed Partnership. So the visitor area also has been an opportunity to do some of that as well. And then the classrooms, while we didn’t add numbers of classrooms, they were larger enough and attractive spaces so that they work a whole lot better for the classes. The one classroom had been downstairs in what it turns out was really supposed to have been a garage. And it felt like a garage with low ceilings and not much view outside. So early on in the architectural planning process, we decided to put all of the program spaces upstairs. And that has meant that all of those classrooms now have wonderful views outside. And then moving all of the offices downstairs, that allowed for better staff use of facilities as well, even though the office offices aren’t quite as nice from a view standpoint as the earlier ones. And it was that decision that really kicked up the whole cost of the project.
Julie West [ 00:40:08 ] You mentioned the focus on Watershed. How else did the programming change? Talk about the programming when you started and how it evolved during your tenure.
Nancy King Smith [ 00:40:20 ] Well, I think from the school curriculum point of view, the biggest one or biggest influence was the increasing attention to state standards of education, where everybody needed to make sure that the students were getting the basics there. So aligning all of the programs we were already doing toward that. There was also a shift, particularly with the Cleveland Heights schools, where all of their students have come at regular grade intervals. And the fifth graders at that time came for a three-day Earthkeepers program, which was a wonderful experiential way of understanding some of the cycles of nature and stewardship, but was not as focused on standards as was needed for the new era. So for that program, we actually designed a new three day Watershed program to replace the three-day Earthkeeper program. And instead of having it three consecutive days for each of the fifth grades, it became three days for each all of the fourth grades. One in the fall, one in the winter and one in the spring. And because of the numbers of Cleveland Heights students, that became still an extremely important 13 classrooms each scheduled three times. And the whole Cleveland Heights plus the other grades have made what Cleveland High schools wanted is a lot of what drove the development of curriculum on the adult level. The Friends organization continued, but had really lost its leadership. So the Nature Center staff was managing some of that, and they continue to committee. Friends continues to plan the programs, but with more staff support. Programmatically, probably the longest lasting, in addition to the Watershed work was starting environmental town halls, so that on a monthly basis at noon, we have a speaker on an environmental topic with opportunity for discussion. And over the 10 years or so, now that it’s been going, that’s given opportunity for lots of different programs programmatically or not so much. But from a fundraising point of view, the biggest change was our starting again to have a major benefit in between the demise of the parties in the park. There had been a 25th anniversary big celebration in the parking lot. But when I came in as director, there was already in place a plan to have a benefit on the bridge. And in the summer of 1995. And so we did and it meant setting up tents and the whole infrastructure out on the bridge between the marsh and lower lake. And that became- it was an instant success, both fundraising wise and again sort of the big neighborhood block party. Then what we decided was that it was such a big effort we would only do it every other year. And so that continues to be the tradition. And in the third year, somewhere along in there, we decided we wanted to have a family event in between which wasn’t necessarily so focused on being a fundraiser but was more a friend raiser. And so that has now evolved into Bug Bash as an every other year smaller friend fundraiser that’s family oriented.
Julie West [ 00:45:03 ] Can you just say a little bit more about the major fundraiser every other year? What kind of event is it? What goes on at these events?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:45:12 ] It’s typical benefit, but it’s outside. After I believe it was three, maybe even four benefits on the bridge, we changed to have it on the parking lot because it was just getting too expensive to host it on the bridge. And it was somewhat- And it was limited in size. Even now on the parking lot it’s limited to about 500 people. And so it’s people sell tables, come have cocktails and enjoy the out of doors and then have a sit-down dinner and dancing afterwards. But it has become known as one of the more fun benefits. Now people don’t have to dress up a whole bunch. And again, it’s a way that people, a lot of whom know each other, have a chance to get together and have a good time and raise some money for the center.
Julie West [ 00:46:18 ] And what about the friend raiser that’s held in the off year? What types of things happen at that event?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:46:27 ] And that one’s really geared toward families and children. There are a lot of activities for children, including the entertainment, but a good meal and a good time for adults as well. And a silent auction, just as if the big benefit has a silent auction that brings in a good part of the revenue that it also is a fun time for adults as well. That one I have not gotten a tent for, which reduces the cost of putting it on but also raises the risk of rain, which I guess we haven’t had so far.
Julie West [ 00:47:00 ] Can you speak a little bit about some of the other events that have become traditional at the center? I’m thinking of the solstice event and those types of activities. Did those come in during your years or were they in existence?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:47:18 ] There were some that came, the two that were already in existence and have continued. One was the Enchanted Forest which has probably been going 20 years now. And it’s a wonderful two day, two evenings. We actually reduced it down from three just because it was so difficult to get enough volunteers on a school night. But a Halloween alternative where Scout groups and others put on skits around the boardwalk. They have always lots and lots of wonderful jack o’lanterns lighting the way and a wizard taking people through in groups as a Halloween time event and learning some of the stories and lore behind All Hallowed Eves. And the other is the celebration of lights over the holidays which highlights the lighting traditions of the winter solstice of various religions and cultures. This time on the Stearns Trail. And it can be cold, but it’s a great outdoor winter event.
Julie West [ 00:48:45 ] We talked a lot about what’s happened, changes in the building while you were here. What was changing outside the building?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:49:00 ] When I arrived, the sort of management philosophy was let nature take its course. So except for safety of trees and limbs and things blocking trails and so on, it was kind of just let it happen. We began to realize that that might not be the best management strategy, particularly as related to invasive plants. So started taking a look more at how you manage for diversity of habitats and within the last couple of years have had a staff person really full-time charged with trying to pay attention to doing that. It’s an uphill battle, but because we have a reasonably small number of acres here, it has some chance of at least making a dent in it and trying to look at the human impacts as well as the biological impacts and trying to have as much diverse habitat from both human education as well as animal and insect and birds, particularly to have habitat for their food and environmental needs.
Julie West [ 00:50:40 ] You mentioned that the Friends Pavilion wasn’t here when you initially got involved. Were you involved at all with that coming to be and, if so, what memories do you have about that?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:50:53 ] When I came, most of the fundraising for it had taken place and the plan was to build it that first summer and that is what happened. But I did get involved with sort of managing the, you know, from staff, the construction, it was a fairly simple construction, but trying to make the decisions on just the finishing and how it would be used. So that was an additional opportunity to have programs, rain or shine, and to really add an outdoor classroom. The philosophy of the educational classes is to spend as much time outside, and the inside classroom is really a base to work from. And this allowed that to add a space so that we could add classes for some portion of the year and also to run more of the outdoor adventure camps, which continue to be well subscribed and for some age groups, more demand than we can handle.
Julie West [ 00:52:10 ] How has the constituency of the Nature Center changed during your time of involvement with it, or has it changed?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:52:22 ] I think it’s changed some. I think the strength of the Nature Center has been the community support, a lot of word of mouth from person to person about the programs, and that it is a great resource. I think through the outreach programs that we have had. And by, I believe it was ’90, I mean, I’m sorry, not ’90. 2000, 2001 had added David Wright as outreach naturalist to work more with audiences that might not be as well served by the Nature Center and try to encourage them to come and also take programs out to communities in Cleveland and East Cleveland and to try to build, particularly with the watershed, programs throughout the watershed.
Julie West [ 00:53:33 ] And how successful do you feel this has been?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:53:36 ] Somewhat. I think we’re better known throughout the whole- All of the communities, including the Cleveland communities and the watershed, still are not used as much as probably would like as far as people coming here. And so I think there’s still a lot of work to be done to bring those who may not have had as many natural experiences in the natural world in their everyday living as those for whom it’s a more natural fit.
Julie West [ 00:54:11 ] What about Dike 14 and the Environmental Education Collaborative? Is there a connection there with the Nature Center?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:54:19 ] Nature Center has been part of trying to get Dike 14 as a nature preserve with judicious public access so that it can be used as a learning lab for Cleveland students, as well as a great birding area and an attractor for the whole region and to take advantage of the found land there. That’s really the dredge from the Cuyahoga River to a wonderful place where over 280 species of birds have been found and lots of wildlife. And so the Nature Center has helped found and is a member of the Dike 14 Environmental Education Collaborative, where a number of the organizations in town have come together to work on that and to provide education. One of the things that happened that I didn’t talk about, and I should probably check on getting these dates exactly right, but in the ’97–98 time frame was when the cities (and that was really under a project funded by a grant that the City of Cleveland had. But Shaker Heights was managing it) to drain Lower [Shaker] Lake and to dredge the marsh. And we were heavily involved in that, including trying to educate people about why it was happening and to try to get as much dredge as possible. Not going into all the messy details of a messy project. The scope of it changed to be more about putting in a drain for Lower Lake Than for the dredging, which the money was initially intended for. So we lobbied to get Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights to ante up some more money to do some dredging. And that was done with a fairly significant amount of dredge in the marsh and a portion of Lower Lake with the promise that it would be done regularly. And that hasn’t happened. So it needs to happen again.
Julie West [ 00:56:47 ] You mentioned also that there were some changes in the board during your tenure, significant events there.
Nancy King Smith [ 00:56:57 ] Well, the board was, I think, around 50 people or so when I came and I just felt like it was too big. So we looked at, not immediately, but reducing it over a period of time. And then eventually also to bring in term limits so that there would be regular rotation off of the board. And then to look at the skills we needed, which increasingly became more business and fundraising, particularly during the time of the capital campaign.
Julie West [ 00:57:39 ] You mentioned early on in our discussion about fundraising and, of course, the fundraising associated with the building. But were there other fundraising challenges that you faced during your tenure, and if so, what were they, and how did you overcome them, or have they been overcome?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:57:55 ] Well, for any nonprofit, there are always fundraising issues. We worked on getting grants for projects, including the watershed and Doan Brook activities and some of the outreach programs that are a little easier to fund. From a grant point of view. The problem becomes that once those programs are established and are good programs, the funders are not as interested in their ongoing support and are more interested in new programs. So trying to create that balance between bringing in grant money for new projects without overloading everybody and keeping the good programs that have been established going is just a tremendous challenge. And then the increased activity and staffing once the building was completed and we had more space and more opportunities to try to keep that going is a huge challenge. And keeping membership happy and increasing membership in terms of numbers as well as attendance at programs for income and the benefits and the gift shop. And so it’s a whole patchwork of pieces that constantly need attention.
Julie West [ 00:59:19 ] Were there times that you remember where there were different or competing visions and what were they and how did they get resolved if they did happen?
Nancy King Smith [ 00:59:29 ] Well, I alluded to one, which was those who were more cautious had lived through the very difficult times and were not sure that we should get into as large a capital campaign and building project as we did. And that took some just listening and then getting the excitement of those who felt we wanted to move forward. And ultimately those who had been kind of naysayers said, well, we’ll just watch and see what happens. And once we succeeded, they were very happy and actually stepped up to the plate a bit more to say they were glad they were proved wrong. That was a major one. The there are certainly always some differences as staff changes and where different people bring different strengths. And so trying to keep people working well together and contributing to their strengths is always a staffing challenge.
Julie West [ 01:01:02 ] Of all the things that transpired during your tenure here, what would you pick as maybe the top two or three things that either you’re most proud of or you think are most important? What really is at the top?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:01:18 ] Well, the completion of the building is clearly, I feel that it’s a legacy for a couple of generations that to have a building that is this attractive and for the most part very functional and all of the pieces of that, the green building, the one tree and all of that. A second one would be getting the Doan Brook Watershed Partnership started and seeing that it had a more focus and buy in from the cities than it ever could under the Nature Center’s purview, with all of the other mission things that we have to do. And then I think there’s the whole effort on both watershed and sustainability and the environmental town hall and kind of all of those programmatic kinds of things.
Julie West [ 01:02:21 ] Are there some things that conversely might stand out for you in terms of low points of your tenure?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:02:33 ] Some of the challenges during the construction time when things were really slowed down and we knew we weren’t going to make the deadlines that we had set and the commitments we’d made for use of the building, that was difficult. Sometimes when grants that we really wanted didn’t come through and we had to look at paring down programs. Another really difficult time was when a Nature Center director in Nebraska took three of my top naturalist staff within a year, one first and then two naturalists who were married, a couple on staff. And I knew when I hired the second one, that it was going to be a risk if they ever did decide to leave. But I didn’t expect it to all to be three top people within a year. That was very difficult.
Julie West [ 01:03:41 ] If your wish could come true, what would you like to see happen at the Nature Center, either in terms of something new or something maybe that used to be that you’d like to see happen again?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:03:54 ] Well, I’m looking forward to the straw bale clay cob storage shed. That money was raised in my name for when I retired. And that I understand has some funding from the Gund Foundation. So I’m looking forward to that. And I think it can be a really creative, wonderful building.
Julie West [ 01:04:16 ] Is there anything that you can think about at this point in time that I should have asked you about that I haven’t given you an opportunity to talk about?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:04:28 ] I think we’ve covered a lot of bases. Can’t think of anything at the moment that’s nudging me.
Julie West [ 01:04:37 ] Okay, well, I’m going to hand off to Martha and see if she has some questions.
Martha Eakin [ 01:04:41 ] I wondered when you became aware of the history of the founding of the Nature Center when you said you first started out as a docent. But I wondered if the story was still closer then, so it hadn’t become sort of part of the Nature Center.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:04:55 ] It was a little bit. I mean, I certainly knew of it, but when I came in ’95, we were preparing for the 30th anniversary, and that was when I really keyed into it. And that was when we had the video that had Jean Eakin and Betty Miller telling the story of the freeway fight and the Nature Center and captured that on video, which tells the story as well as anything I’ve ever seen, along with the map that has the freeway superimposed on the streets. So I got very interested at that point of the 30th, in all of the archival material that we had here, and recognized that we needed to do a whole bunch better job of cataloging it. And we did some organizing. But then we got involved in this building project and that kind of sat. Got to back burner. So I’m really glad that that is coming to the fore now with the 40th and with the idea of really building toward the 50th.
Martha Eakin [ 01:06:09 ] You mentioned that there was, between ’89, or maybe it sort of became stronger between ’80, ’89 and ’93, a conflict over the direction and whether we were going in a sort of teaching environmental education through an experiential model or a more scientific model. And you said that David-
Nancy King Smith [ 01:06:31 ] Imbrogno.
Martha Eakin [ 01:06:33 ] When he took over that, one of the good things was that he had a strong vision and it sounds like he had good organizational skills. And you said he had planned to align the curriculum. And I assume that you mean because you later mentioned state standards. And I wondered if somehow the state standards for environmental education affect a choice between experiential and scientific learning or if you could meet state standards and have chosen a different path.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:07:10 ] The standards are pretty specific both in science and social studies and all of the subject areas. There are no standards for environmental education. So it’s really how do you use the umbrella of environmental education to accomplish the things that are actually being tested? It doesn’t rule out experiential, but the specific curricula that or programs that were being used, such as Earthkeepers and a number of the others, really didn’t lend themselves as well to looking at the standards.
Martha Eakin [ 01:07:50 ] And when you mentioned that there was a sort of the building took a little bit longer to get finished and so you were operating out of a different location. Was there a gap in classes and how did that affect the relationship with the schools? Do you think that the Nature Centers at this point were covered or did they lose some schools that they were dealing with because they somehow found their training elsewhere?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:08:13 ] Pretty much were able to keep all of them by providing the classes either on the school grounds or some went to Holden and the Historical Society. And people were very generous in helping us get through that period of time. And then once the building was finished, people really wanted to come. So we didn’t really lose school groups.
Martha Eakin [ 01:08:38 ] And you mentioned a time during your tenure where you both reduced the number of people on the board, but you also saw a need for having more. You said that more business people, people with a business background or sort of the fundraising help. Was it- Did you feel that you had to educate the people who were good at business and fundraising to, you know, have sort of the triple bottom line sustainability philosophy or, I mean, is that a problem when you get a bunch of people that can help you raise money, but how do you persuade them? I mean, did you have board-
Nancy King Smith [ 01:09:16 ] Probably could have done more than we did. But by and large the people who chose to come on the board already had some interest in either nature or sustainability. So. But making sure that we had have people with passion for the natural world is still a really important part of having an effective board member for the Nature Center.
Julie West [ 01:09:45 ] Do either of the technical folks, Mark or Tony, have any questions to ask?
Unknown Speaker [ 01:09:51 ] I don’t.
Julie West [ 01:09:53 ] Shane, do we have any additional questions?
Ishima [ 01:10:05 ] Do you remember your first impression of the [inaudible]?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:10:12 ] I just remember that it was- I was just so pleased that there was a natural area with trails close that I could get to and how lovely the woods and the lakes were. So that, I guess, would be a first impression.
Ishima [ 01:10:32 ] [inaudible]
Nancy King Smith [ 01:10:35 ] Well, I’d actually lived in upstate New York for a number of years in between, so it was more similar to that in terms of the woods and the biota. And I just thought it was great that it was all right here and close and equally beautiful to some there. Very different from California mountains and ocean and so on. But that is a different kind of experience than this where it’s just right next door.
Ishima [ 01:11:20 ] What do you remember about the Institute of Earth Education?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:11:27 ] I didn’t work with them as closely. We were still members in order to use the Earthkeepers program. And I did see some of their books. But they, as I say, really focused on almost the mystical experience of being in nature. And some of the initial programs that were planned here focused on the Wizard’s Den as being the exhibit area. And it was that concept that didn’t get funded for the capital campaign to build it. And ultimately people felt like it just wasn’t the right direction to go.
Ishima [ 01:12:16 ] Do you feel there’s a mystical dimension to people’s relationship with nature?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:12:22 ] I absolutely do. I think it’s a very important one and that it’s important to give kids, particularly those who don’t have experience in the out of doors, an opportunity to be in touch with that mystical, spiritual, just visceral being outside. And the main fear is that if the kids don’t get that experience at an early enough age, they become afraid of being in the out of doors instead of loving the out of doors. So I think that dimension is extremely important. And I really credit the naturalists on staff here who do, even with all of the pressure to make sure that the curriculum is covered and all will take the time to look at Julie doing bird banding and how marvelous the holding of that little bird in her hands, or to sit and just observe, or to have the teachable moment when the hawk comes by with something in its talons or whatever the experience might be.
Ishima [ 01:13:37 ] When the Earth Keepers program was changed into another program, did you think there was something lost?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:13:45 ] Yes. There are still kids who went through the Cleveland Heights schools who will say, I still have my keys, because they earned keys as part of the stewardship, part of it. And while we give them certificates and some Doan Brook mug or whatever. It’s not the same as earning those keys and opening the trunk that had the answers.
Ishima [ 01:14:16 ] Can you remember the Institute of Environmental Education?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:14:25 ] Yes, I did know him and we worked with him through the program, the. What was called the class program which was the Children’s Museum and the Nature Center. And he was helpful in that.
Ishima [ 01:14:38 ] And he did some environmental survey for the Nature Center.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:14:45 ] Yes, that was prior to my being here as director.
Ishima [ 01:14:53 ] Tell us how the idea of environmental town hall came about.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:15:01 ] I realized there wasn’t that much programming going on that was sort of focused on issues and so wanted to try to have something that wasn’t going to be a big burden to try to get people to and opening the building in the evening and some of the issues around that. So thought well let’s see if we can do something at noon that will also make it easy for staff to get educated as well as for people to come in. And it probably hasn’t been marketed as well as it could be but it’s always had a steady attendance and seems to fill a need. And also then it’s easier for staff to be able to get there.
Ishima [ 01:15:52 ] Could you give us some details about watershed programs.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:16:01 ] Particularly the three day Doan Brook watershed program for the fourth graders. And now the Beachwood students also do it. And Shaker Heights does a shortened version but it starts in the fall with a look at the hydrology and geology of the Doan Brook and includes a hike down into the Doan Gorge which is a wonderful experience for the kids. And then in the winter they come back for human and natural history including playing out the decision by the Shakers to dam the Shaker Lakes. And the pros and cons of that. They actually have a mini town hall council meeting to do that and then in the spring to come back for water quality testing and stewardship. So all of those components are part of many of the watershed things that go on here.
Ishima [ 01:17:08 ] How did that start?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:17:11 ] When we were working with the Cleveland Heights schools and realized that the Earthkeepers was not meeting either the curriculum needs nor any longer a good match for the fifth graders. That they were kind of beyond it. That we worked closely with the teachers for a period of a year to develop the new three day watershed program and then tested it, piloted it with a couple of teachers and did some evaluating on it and then continue the evaluation into the first year to fine tune it and still fine tuned. But the major elements are there. Had to refigure when the state standards changed again to make sure. That they were fitting with the right grade levels, which is- But it was done with a lot of input and continued input with particularly Cleveland Heights Elementary School teachers.
Ishima [ 01:18:16 ] What do you think is most needed in environmental education?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:18:25 ] I think the way an understanding of how everything is connected and that all of the systems, whether you’re talking about water or forest or animals or birds or people, that it is all connected. And then to go to the layer beneath that of how they’re all connected and the many complex ways in which they’re connected.
Ishima [ 01:18:57 ] Do you think there’s kind of paradigm ecological paradigm change that is needed.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:19:12 ] In terms of the understanding of people’s understanding? Well, I think that within the last couple of years, the whole consciousness of people in the U.S. is catching up with the consciousness of people in Europe and other places that we need to do things differently, whether it’s about climate change or energy use. I think we’re a long way from really having a totally educated population and certainly a long way from one that’s willing to make changes. But I think those changes are going to be driven both economically and by loss of resources as we move along, not in particularly easy ways. So I think we’re slow. Had we been a little faster, it might have been the future might be a little easier.
Ishima [ 01:20:22 ] Directors, they’re trying to get out of the way to provide a more authentic experience for people to connect with nature.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:20:37 ] That is a conversation that’s going on within Nature Centers is should we be providing all of this programming and all of this guided experience, or should we just let people experience? And I think it needs to be a balance that different groups and different times, you need to do both.
Ishima [ 01:21:17 ] Do you think there can be unlimited economic growth?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:21:20 ] Unlimited? No, I, I think we will be. We’re going to reach the end of resources or have to rethink how we use our resources. They’re not infinite, even though that’s the way our economic system has treated them. And so I think that there will need to be a lot of changes. I think we’re going to be going back toward more local food and resource use. But it’s going to be a while and it’s going to be messy getting there.
Ishima [ 01:22:01 ] How did you try to harmony with nature in our daily life?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:22:07 ] Yeah, imperfectly. I certainly try to recycle papers. I bought a Honda Hybrid and try to use it as little as possible to try to bike and walk at least some of the time when possible. I’ve started paying attention to buying carbon offsets for the considerable amount of travel I do as airline travel is not energy efficient and carbon offsets allows for some mitigation of that.
But I have a long way to go in terms of reducing energy use, of being more careful with use of resources.
Ishima [ 01:22:56 ] What were the major obstacles you felt?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:23:01 ] Takes time, takes intention and takes making choices that sometimes mean you might not be able to do what you thought you did, would, would have liked. But I, I really think we all have so much room to make changes that really are not going to mean giving up much and perhaps gaining some.
And I know that intellectually it’s just hard to sometimes remember it on the day to day.
Ishima [ 01:23:40 ] Has your love of nature ever led you to question technology, the direction of technology?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:23:51 ] Certainly the way in which we are using, using it and the consumer culture. And I’ve become much more aware of the way in which the rules and laws around corporations and the rights of corporations are a fundamental flaw in our overall economic system. I think technology has provided some wonderful opportunities for connecting and communications and many other things.
And I’m also very excited about some of the things we can learn from nature that are in a sense using what we can learn from nature to improve some of the materials and processes and things engineering that we might do sort of in a different kind of technology. Can you give us one example that the mollusks that attach themselves to rocks in the ocean have a glue that’s strong enough to withstand incredible beating of water and that we can learn from those substances how we can have perhaps more biologically based substances rather than oil, petroleum-based substances as glues or the web of a spider that’s incredibly strong. And how we can learn through studying its chemistry to do things in a way that are perhaps not using the petrochemical.
Ishima [ 01:25:47 ] You mentioned the Nature Center is an important resource for the community. Why is that? So I see in the suburban area have there like many gardens. So some are more beautiful than other Nature Center grounds.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:26:07 ] So it’s a good question. Well, I, I think people who love gardening or and a lot of people here in the Heights are fortunate to have wonderful yards and space and gardens. But they’re not that sort of uninterrupted, mostly uninterrupted natural space that you can walk through and sense of being quite a ways away in the summertime walking the Stearns Trail until you hear the rapid go by, you might not know that you’re really in the middle of a city.
And I think that experience or gazing over the lake from a natural experience point of view are very important. The other part is that it’s a community resource. It’s where people come together and people from various communities around, not all of whom do have the yards that are in the immediate area. So I think for the community and then as an educational resource, that it’s a real community asset that’s important, regardless of the fact there’s a lot of green around the suburban area.
Ishima [ 01:27:29 ] Have your perception of nature changed? Have you come to realize some incorrect perceptions?
Nancy King Smith [ 01:27:46 ] Well, I think we were all learning about what the human impact is over the long term. I had hoped I would learn a whole bunch more about identifying birds and plants and so on from a knowledge point of view. But I think I’ve come to appreciate even more how complex the systems are and how important they are.
Julie West [ 01:28:14 ] I have one last question. It occurred to me that we spent a lot of time talking about your tenure and your different roles here at the Nature Center. I’m wondering if you have a favorite or outstanding personal memory of the Nature Center.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:28:33 ] There have been lots and lots. Sometimes it would almost be walking out at the end of the day and realizing I hadn’t been outside all day. But whether it was in the winter and snow falling at dusk, or just seeing how beautiful it was, this sort of reminder, oh, I need to pay more attention to that. So certainly, coming out and seeing the birds that you’re holding in your hands sometimes have been very special moments. Lots.
Julie West [ 01:29:12 ] Well, thank you very much. Yes, appreciate your time. And just a reminder that we will have a release form that we need you to sign so we can take advantage of all the good things you’ve shared. Thank you very much.
Nancy King Smith [ 01:29:25 ] Okay, Thank- [recording ends abruptly]
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