Gordon Priemer, president of Heartland Developers, discusses his company's role in the redevelopment of Cleveland's Midtown Corridor. The company has been involved with the Midtown area on and off for over thirty five years (as of interview date), working to develop and redevelop commercial and residential housing in the Midtown area. He gives key insight to the philosophy behind his company and the overall redevelopment of the Midtown Corridor. He mentions particular buildings the company has developed (commercial and residential) and what type of buildings they look for when deciding how they choose development projects. He explains why the Midtown Corridor is a viable market place for developers and the importance of residential housing as it pertains to the growth of the area. Other topics include the advantages of living in the area and the challenges Midtown faces as it redevelops.


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Priemer, Gordon (interviewee)


Hons, Justin (interviewer)


Midtown Cleveland



Document Type

Oral History


42 minutes


Justin Hons [00:00:00] Mic check. So we’ll go ahead. I’m Justin Hons. I’m here with Gordon Priemer from Heartland Developers. I’m with Cleveland State University. Gordon, thanks a lot for joining us.

Gordon Priemer [00:00:10] Good to be here. Thanks.

Justin Hons [00:00:12] Could you tell us a little bit about Heartland Development?

Gordon Priemer [00:00:15] My last name is Priemer.

Justin Hons [00:00:16] Priemer?

Gordon Priemer [00:00:17] Priemer.

Justin Hons [00:00:19] Could you tell us a little bit about Heartland Developers’ history?

Gordon Priemer [00:00:24] Well, Heartland Developers was really principally started as a residential developer out in the suburbs. We developed from areas from Medina to Mentor to Aurora. And about seven or eight years ago we decided to refocus our energies and resources and principally develop in the city of Cleveland and the first-ring suburbs.

Justin Hons [00:00:57] What made you come to that decision?

Gordon Priemer [00:01:02] In truth? I have got a large family and two of the children, one who is in business with me, Mark, and a daughter who is an advocate of living in Cleveland and a real nature lover, and if I can use the term tree hugger, said, dad, I think we ought to take a look at all this urban sprawl and see if we can do something about it. And so they convinced me over a period of time that they were right. And if we’re going to have a strong core city, I think in the back of my mind I always felt that way but if you’re going to put your money where your mouth is and let’s start developing where it’s meaningful, and that’s when we refocus the business.

Justin Hons [00:01:53] Now, what is your role in the business?

Gordon Priemer [00:01:57] Sweeping floors and- [laughs] I’m president of the company. And I guess as president you set the vision and set the tone and set the work atmosphere. So that’s, I’ve got a lot of good people that support me.

Justin Hons [00:02:17] What were some of the first things that you did when you decided to refocus on developing residential homes in the Cleveland area?

Gordon Priemer [00:02:24] Well, get acquainted with the territory, you know, the physical territory and the land and the opportunities, and then also to familiarize ourselves with the political climate and then third, investigate the market penetration, you know, are there good, were there good, are there good places to develop, etcetera? And so sort of an investigation, due diligence. And that took about five minutes, and we decided that we were going to go ahead with it. [laughs] No, but I wanted to mention one thing, too. We are principally a residential condominium mixed-use developer, but we, especially in the Midtown area, our focus has been in redeveloping older buildings and purchasing not only buildings but land for redevelopment in the Midtown area. Our companies have been located in Midtown on and off for probably 35 years. I tell the story that my first office, when I went into business in 1967, was at the corner of 46th and Euclid. So I’m sort of- I’ve come back to my roots, as they say. So we do residential and commercial mixed use, and primarily in Midtown. We do our commercial redevelopment or development.

Justin Hons [00:04:13] Could you describe a typical Heartland property, how it might look?

Gordon Priemer [00:04:20] In the Midtown area?

Justin Hons [00:04:21] Sure.

Gordon Priemer [00:04:22] One of our building that we acquired about three and a half years ago is at 4415 Euclid Avenue. And it was the- Was the headquarter of the old Premier Farnell Industrial Company here in town. And we purchased the building. It had been vacated for a few years, and we purchased the building along with two tenants. And both of these tenants were out in the suburbs and they wanted to relocate into Cleveland. They were technology companies. So we formed a joint venture to purchase the building and renovate it. And we’ve created what I would call a midsized technology building. The majority of the tenants that are in the building are technology- or research-oriented. And you said the qualities of the building. I think we pride ourselves on not skimping, and that we’ve use quality material, we use quality design, we use quality workers so that the end product is something to be proud of and will sustain itself. And we try to use green building whenever we can, whether it’s better efficient air conditioning and heating systems, whether it’s proper disposal of the waste material, whether it’s lighting. We try to be very conscious of that. And we use a lot of landscaping. So even for this office light industry, we have a lot of landscaping around it. You’ll see that there’s a nice entrance to it, and it looks very attractive and appealing.

Justin Hons [00:06:22] Who have been some of the residential tenants that you’ve had in these properties? What group of people primarily are making up the folks who are moving in?

Gordon Priemer [00:06:33] To our residential development? You know, I’m pleased to say that it’s everybody, it’s first-time home buyers all the way to what? I’ll say young retirees, to families, to dual-income couples, to singles, to single again. It’s really a broad spectrum, and I think, not I think, I think we’ve seen this over the last half a dozen years, that people are interested in a little bit more active lifestyle. You know, they’re not particularly interested in that little bungalow out in the suburbs or that acre and a half. Not that there’s not plenty of people that are interested in that, but there’s a whole group of people that are interested in a different lifestyle, more active, more productive more energizing, and those are the people that our projects are geared to, even our commercial projects in Midtown. You know, these two companies I mentioned located to Midtown because they wanted their employees be closer to the downtown area, wanted their employees to be closer to Playhouse, wanted their employees to be closer to the waterfront, that kind of thing. And so adding sort of a different dimension to their workplace.

Justin Hons [00:08:02] I do want to talk about your commercial tenants, but I’m curious real quick. Are most of the residential tenants people from outside of the city of Cleveland who are moving back into the city?

Gordon Priemer [00:08:14] Yes. And I’ll say this, that, as I said, we develop not only in the city of Cleveland, but the first-ring suburbs. And the majority of our buyers over the last five years have been people from the suburbs or people that have transferred into Cleveland. I would say probably 60% to 70% would fit that category, which is positive for Cleveland, that they are coming back. And although we’re in a little lull, as we talked about earlier, a little lull in the housing market nationwide, there’s a little dip in the housing market, but it’ll come back.

Justin Hons [00:09:09] What was Midtown like seven to eight years ago when you decided to refocus your efforts on developing in the city of Cleveland?

Gordon Priemer [00:09:18] Well, I’ve been active in Midtown probably for, well, on and off for 20-some years, but I think real active in the last ten to twelve years. So I was active in Midtown even before our company decided to refocus our wares. We owned a couple of buildings for a long time in Midtown. So we’ve been a longtime stakeholder. It was in an emerging developing area, I would say. I would say even back then that you could see because of its location, its proximity to downtown and University Circle, its ease of access, its open parking, a bus line. The loop went out to, I think, 30th at that point in time. And then, of course, the lines that go down there. And you could see with Cleveland State and downtown expanding a little bit and the Clinic and University Circle, that it was a place that was going to- It was going to be developed long term. And, you know, I hate to say back to the glory days, but, you know, in the twenties and thirties and forties, Euclid Avenue was the place in Cleveland, not only for residential, but for commercial use. And I don’t think it’ll come back to the days where we had the old mansions on Euclid Avenue, but it’ll come back, and with this new Silver Line, I think already you see it. I mean, you can walk down where they finished some of the areas and they have a couple of the stations erected. And you can just see that it’s new, it’s inviting, it’s lively, and it’s easier access. I think people, once it’s new and you don’t have cracked sidewalks and you have some flowers and trees and it’s well lit, people will walk more. You know, if they feel safe or the perception is safe, then they’ll walk more. They’ll walk up the street. They’ll go walk three, four blocks to Asian Village [Asiatown]. They’ll walk over to Cleveland state, that kind of thing.

Justin Hons [00:11:45] What was the neighborhood like whenever you, you said about 20 years ago you first started working with building.

Gordon Priemer [00:11:52] Yeah, about 20 years ago we started, I think it was probably a little stronger. Not today, but when we first, this was sort of, well, it’s always been called the Midtown area. It was close to downtown, but not downtown. And there were a number of buildings that were constructed. Some of them are gone at this point in time, that were constructed from, in the fifties and early sixties, between 55th and the Innerbelt. Now many of those buildings are gone. Now some of them are there. But it was always the intent that this would be a sort of uptown-midtown kind of location. I don’t think it ever materialized like people thought it was. I don’t know whether it was the economy. It was probably a whole mixture of things, but it never materialized as a secondary office market for downtown. So I would say the late sixties and through the seventies, mid seventies, it deteriorated. And then really, it’s really when Midtown was started by a group of enterprising men that had their companies located here. And they just said, hey, this is too good of an area to let it go down. And so they, so from the sixties, it went down for 10 or 15 years. And then this group started to organize and see the benefit of it. Did that answer your question? So I probably bought the first building I bought, I probably bought at the wrong time because as we bought it, it started. As we purchased it, it started to go down.

Justin Hons [00:14:03] When did you see it start to change? I mean, you mentioned Midtown Incorporated as kind of being part of that. Around what time period did you start?

Gordon Priemer [00:14:12] Well, we’re charging, we’re celebrating our 25th anniversary this year. So it really started to change when Midtown was formed 25 years ago. And interesting, in that 25 years, we’ve only had three leaders. So that tells you something about the credibility and sustainability of the organization.

Justin Hons [00:14:40] Now, what role have you played in the organization?

Gordon Priemer [00:14:45] Well, I’ve tried to be active as much as I can. You know, we all still have our own businesses and at that point in time families to raise and so on. But, you know, we were concerned about our area, concerned about our businesses, concerned about our employees, and concerned about Cleveland. And we felt that if we could do our share, our little share of trying to redevelop, physically clean up this area, that we could make something out of it.

Justin Hons [00:15:24] Are you originally from Cleveland?

Gordon Priemer [00:15:27] I’m originally from Detroit, and I went to school, college up at John Carroll University in the Heights and married a Case Western Reserve graduate. And I’ve been here ever since. But going back, I’ve been active as much as I could through the years. And I think more particularly, I think over the last ten years, I’ve been very active on various committees and on the board, being an advocate of the area, trying to move people in here, trying to interest people into the area, talking about the area and not just giving it lip service, but really meaningful, and tell people what are the advantages of being here. Obviously, there’s a few disadvantages. I’m not sure what they are, but I’m sure there must be some disadvantages.

Justin Hons [00:16:26] What do you tell to someone whenever you’re trying to sell the area to them? Whenever you’re trying to really bring out the positives of Midtown, what are the main things you emphasize?

Gordon Priemer [00:16:36] A number of things, and we’ve sort of touched on them. Conveniences. Just the convenience of coming in and out. We’ve moved in and out of Cleveland and Midtown. Although I’ve always had a presence. One of our companies has usually been in Midtown. We moved part of our operation out east, oh, maybe ten years ago. And we just recently moved this operation back to Midtown. And it’s because it’s more central. We do business all over the county, and being located in Midtown is central. I can go, you know, east, west and south. I can pick up the freeways. And it’s still close access to the downtown area. So I think the big thing is convenience, accessibility. When you’re, depending on what your company is, and access to a decent labor force, you know, depending on what your business is, etcetera, I think it’s good access to a labor force and parking. You know, downtown we’re not, you know, you’re spending anywhere from $80 a month to $200 a month for parking in here it’s relatively free.

Justin Hons [00:18:06] What has been the response from both kind of the general city of Cleveland, Cleveland I’m sure it’s a very mixed bag, but then also specifically the folks here in Midtown to what you’ve been involved in specifically with the redevelopment in the last seven to eight years in the area?

Gordon Priemer [00:18:24] I mean, how does Midtown feel about it, [crosstalk] or how does the city feel about it, or both? Well, we’ve- Yeah, we’ve- I think Midtown is pleased that- The organization is pleased with the amount of redevelopment that we’ve done in the area. We- I don’t have the statistics on the top of my fingers here, but I would say we leased to maybe 45 tenants in the Midtown area, and I would say the majority of them were brought here because of ourselves and the way we manage buildings and the way we take care of tenants. And we’re still a family business. You know, I have a son that’s in business- I have two sons that are in business with me, and we try to run it as a family business a little bit more. I don’t even want to say more concerned, but we are very concerned about our tenants and their wellbeing. And as successful as they are, that makes us more successful. And I think the city of Cleveland has been pleased with our developments. They’ve helped us out with some incentives and some entitlements through the years. They’ve been cooperative from providing additional security if we’ve needed it with our police force and that kind of thing. And I would say they’re very pleased with what we’ve done here along the corridor, ourselves and other people, too. We’re not the only ones.

Justin Hons [00:20:20] How have the new developments and people moving in from the suburbs and the city transfers, how that you’ve observed how well they interacted with the existing residents of the neighborhood? How has that interaction gone?

Gordon Priemer [00:20:34] I think it’s gone well, you know. Right, you know, this is predominantly a business community in midtown with patches of residential, which you want to have. You want to have residential, you want to have a mixed-use. We want to have more retail, we want to have more restaurants than we have. So you want that mixed environment. And I think, generally speaking, it’s been acceptable and there’s been a good relation. Not only acceptable, there’s been a good relationship. We’ve just now starting to develop some residential units. There’s some. The apartments are better rented now in the area. Montana townhomes over on Prospect was recently completed, and I think they’ve sold all the condominiums but one. So, it’s coming.

Justin Hons [00:21:40] Could you just kind of briefly list the different specific buildings that you’ve been a part of developing in Midtown? And if you can briefly describe them, I mean, you named this one.

Gordon Priemer [00:21:50] Well, I mentioned the 4415 Building. And then we’ve also purchased the parking lots next to that building for future development. We’d like to see- We’re sort of, our strategy, or our plan now is to have a little retail there. We need some convenient items, and so we’d like to have some retail. And that’s the area at 40th and Euclid. We’ve also purchased some buildings at 4600 Euclid Avenue, which is sort of kitty corner from 4415. And we’re renovating one of the buildings there. And a law firm from downtown Cleveland is going to move in there, the Cowden & Humphrey people, so that’s gonna be a nice endeavor, and they should occupy sometime in October. Then we own some buildings at the Innerbelt at 2800 Euclid Avenue, which we’ve had for a little while, and we’ve continued to upgrade those buildings and renovate them. And I think the market is receptive to those. So those are the three or four major projects that we’ve had.

Justin Hons [00:23:13] Could you talk a little bit about the type of commercial tenants that you have? Earlier you mentioned the connections to technology, the growing idea of high-tech technology being the market of the future.

Gordon Priemer [00:23:31] Not necessarily the market of the future, but that particular building over there. We geared it to technology because my two partners, Cleveland Medical Devices and Orbital Research, are in the technology business, technology transfer business, and we thought it, with them as a nucleus, it would be a natural to entice other companies to come in, and by and large, that’s what’s happened. And I would say that we have had three or four tenants in that building that have expanded, that have either doubled or tripled their size over the last few years. And that’s one of the intentions, too. If you can provide a nice atmosphere for small technology companies, that they can grow and take more space and add more people. So that is a technology building. On the other hand, we have, a lot of our buildings have professional people. I mentioned the law firm over here. We’ve got two or three law firms, midsized to small law firms in our buildings. We’ve got a few nonprofit agencies in our buildings. We’ve got a few unions. We’ve got a whole myriad of tenants. I don’t think we wouldn’t care to exclude anybody or go after a particular segment. As long as you’re professional and you run a good, solid business and have a solid organization and pay the rent on time and contribute, then that’s the kind of tenants that we want. And I think having a variety of tenants is better, rather than just have one kind of tenant. I think having a variety of tenants is more interesting. And one of the things that we do do is we try to create a little synergism. For instance, as I mentioned, we’ve got a few law firms. Well, we’re also talking to a title company to come into Midtown that these law firms can use. We also have some architectural firms that we lease to. So it’s, you know, you try to create some synergism between uses. Maybe we’ll even get Thundertech to come on over to one of our properties. They’ve got a nice facility in Midtown already, though.

Justin Hons [00:26:20] How has the slump in the housing market affected your plans, your vision and kind of the reality?

Gordon Priemer [00:26:28] Well, I don’t think it’s hurt my vision. It’s just postponed some of the things that we’d like to do and some of our projects that we’re maybe going at them or pursuing them a little slower than we normally would. But even now, as I’m speaking here, we’re in July, and, you know, I see it sort of bottoming out and coming back. It’s not gonna come back with the forces as it was a couple of years ago, but it’s going to come back. And there’s a lot of great things happening in Cleveland right now. And we may not have the large blue-chip companies that we had years ago, but we have just a lot of midsize to small companies that are expanding. Well, if you saw the, the last, Ernst and Young has the just nominated the- Well, they had more than that. They must have had 70 applications for entrepreneurs of the year. And these are men and women that have started basically their own companies or started another company in the last ten years. And I’m drawing a blank right now on all these companies that were there. But I went to the banquet because one of the companies that we’re involved in, I’m involved with a small startup bank called Liberty Bank. And the bank’s quadrupled in size over the last three, four years. And we’ve gone from 15 employees to 40 employees. Shearer Potato Chip is a company, now that’s an old line company, but they’ve had tremendous growth over the last several years. Riverside Venture Capital Company. I may not have the right name, and they’ll probably get mad at me, but it is Riverside Capital. They have done more acquisitions and mergers of midsize companies than any other company in the country last year and this year, and they’re located here in Cleveland. There’s a woman that has started as a service to law firms. And I forget her name that. I’ll get you the list. There’s 22 of them just published in one of our business magazines. But she started this business six years ago. She was a paralegal and- A medical paralegal. And she could see the need for having research available for lawyers that dealt in the medical field. And I may be off a little bit, but I understand that she’s got 500 employees over the last five years. Yes. We have a company in Midtown, Dealer Tire, that has over 500 employees. They just renovated a building over on Chester Avenue that’s their corporate headquarters. And the Mueller family started it. And they’ve gone from a couple of dozen employees over the last ten years to probably six, 700 employees. And that’s a good one. They’re in Cleveland and in Midtown. So there’s a lot of those stories around that people have anywhere from 50 to 500 employees that you don’t read about all the time, but they’re coming.

Justin Hons [00:30:52] This is kind of maybe slightly off-the-wall question, but has any of the press about Cleveland being the poorest city in the nation in the last three, maybe four years, has that affected, not so much your vision, but the ability for your redevelopment to be successful? Has that had any impact at all?

Gordon Priemer [00:31:12] Yes, I guess the short answer is yes, it does. And that’s with anything, you know, is the glass half empty or half full? You know, and it’s all in, it’s not all in perception and perspective, but so much of it is. You know, I consider, I beat the drum all day long, so I’m very positive about it. But then when you see an article in the paper or a particular magazine that’s down on a particular segment, yeah, that concerns me. And, you know, the more you see about that, those kinds of things. Yeah, sure, it does affect you and hopefully it doesn’t dampen my enthusiasm, but it does affect people. And it does if, you know, if they see that a particular part of the city isn’t as safe as others, that means they may not locate to that, excuse me, whether it’s residential or commercial. So, yes, it does affect it. Negative publicity does. On the other hand, we’ve got to be realistic. You know, we don’t want to look at things through rose-colored glasses all the time. You’ve got to be realistic. And, you know, you mentioned Cleveland being one of the poorest. Well, we happen to be one of the poorest because of how they keep the statistics. If you would take the statistics geographically of the surrounding counties, no, we wouldn’t be. But because we’ve had such a large migration out of the city, but it’s coming back now. Less the percentage of people moving out of the city has been reduced over the last ten years.

Justin Hons [00:33:09] Other than that, the migration out of the city, what other challenges do you feel are important for the city? Maybe specifically here in Midtown, for folks who are really trying to bring the city up and improve it and develop it, what are the challenges that need to be dealt with?

Gordon Priemer [00:33:25] Well, I think our challenge, I always say that we at Midtown, we have to set the table. We have to. And then somebody else is going to bring the dinner or bring the appetizer and that kind of thing. But we have to set the table. We’ve got to have a safe place. We’ve got to have a beautiful place. We’ve got to have a convenient place. We have to have a clean place. We’ve got to have an organized place so that businesses and people want to live and work here, and we’ve got to be able to facilitate their needs. And part of that and setting the table is having proper zoning and having proper vision so that when somebody wants to locate here, they know what is expected of them. If you want to have a scrap iron yard, it’s not the place to locate it on Euclid Avenue in Midtown, things of that nature. So we have to have strong zoning, strong ordinances in order to affect it. And we need to raise the bar, you know, just because maybe we’re on our way up. You want to maybe compromise. The tendency is to maybe compromise some of those values or compromise some of the things that you want to do. So it’s less, you don’t want to do that. You want to set the bar high, and you want to have our expectations high so that we get good, strong, viable people, companies. I don’t mean to talk so much. That’s the purpose of it? Okay.

Justin Hons [00:35:20] What kind of official recognitions have you received? Hardly any developers received from the work that you’ve done.

Gordon Priemer [00:35:28] Well, I think we are known as quality developers. I think we’re known as honest people, people of integrity. We’re not perfect, but we try. I think we’re known as visionaries. And we’re a hardworking organization. We’re very hardworking. We don’t expect things to be given to us. We’re willing to work hard, and I think people trust us, and I think that’s important in the development business or the redevelopment business. People gotta have to be able to trust you and what you say you’ll do. And if you, excuse me, if you can’t do it for some reason, tell them, be straightforward with people.

Justin Hons [00:36:21] On the other, have you received any criticism for the work that you do in the city, and if so, what?

Gordon Priemer [00:36:30] No, you know, knock on wood. I don’t think we’ve had much criticism. I think maybe initially when you go in to redevelop a particular block or a neighborhood, you know, the constituents or the people around it might say, oh, wait a minute, are you gonna build something that’s nice? Are you gonna build something that we’re going to be pleased with and so on. So there might be some apprehension at the beginning, but I think once they see what we’ve done and now we’ve done enough so that I think they have confidence in what we’re doing.

Justin Hons [00:37:13] What’s your view on the controversy around tax abatement in Cleveland?

Gordon Priemer [00:37:19] There’s no controversy anymore. They renewed it and renewed it with vigor, and which was the intelligent, practical thing to do. There was only one dissenting vote, so I don’t think there’s any controversy anymore. I think it’s one of those tools, one of those arrows in our quiver that we need. It’s not the only thing we need, but we need various entitlements in order to be competitive, in order to entice businesses to stay in Cleveland. Ideally, it would be nice not to have any tax abatement. And if it was countywide or regionwide, and you all compete on a level field, and we’ll get to that. We’re looking more at regionalism, whether it’s a political region or just a region by cooperation. We’re looking at more regionalizing various services and that. So I think tax abatement and tax sharing and so on will evolve, so it’ll take care of itself.

Justin Hons [00:38:42] Well, that is most of the questions that I wanted to get into. Do you have anything you want to add, maybe to your kind of overall vision, the area, the role you want to play in bringing that vision about anything that you feel is an obstacle that you feel people should be aware of, anything along those lines that you want to add in?

Gordon Priemer [00:39:08] Well, the obstacle is I just don’t have enough time and enough money to do everything I want to do. But other than that. Well, just one comment, and I thought about it. I didn’t have a list of the questions you were going to ask, but I thought about, you know, what’s made Midtown successful, and it’s an overused term or an overused saying, but, you know, it’s been the stakeholders and the people, you know. I take, and I’ve been involved with three staffs at Midtown, maybe 15 people over the last 15 years. And yes, it’s a job, but, you know, I can’t think of anybody that was employed by Midtown or involved with Midtown that didn’t absolutely care about what they were doing, and that’s important. It’s one thing just to get a paycheck, but when you really care about what you’re doing, it means a lot. And I think that’s true with, we’ve been so fortunate through the years. As I’ve said, we’ve had three directors and three dynamic directors, and they’ve each played certain roles through the years. And so we’ve been fortunate to have that continuity and stability. And then last but not least, I think that the stakeholders, you know, we still have stakeholders that were involved at the beginning 25 years ago that are involved today. And so that just shows you the importance to them and what they’re doing. And some of these stakeholders are retired and they’re still working. Dan Sussen is an example of that, and you probably interviewed him earlier. So it’s the people. It’s the people. And then, you know, we’ve had such a good vision. It’s the right thing. So when you’re doing the right thing and you have a good vision about it, it’s gonna take place. It just is going to take place. And I’m excited. Once this Silver Line is put into effect and it’s completely done all the way through, I think we’re gonna surprise ourselves. I mean, there’s been a lot of interest already, but I think we’re gonna surprise ourselves in how well this area is going to do. It’s going to be, I call it our business park, and it’s going to be our downtown business park. And it literally is from 30th out to the Clinic, it’s gonna be a downtown business park.

Justin Hons [00:41:47] Thanks a lot.

Gordon Priemer [00:41:48] You’re welcome. Good to be here. Thank you.

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